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Path To Glory - ETC All Games Up!
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Author:  Curu Olannon [ Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - Double Whammy vs TK & DE 02.09!

The reply was meant to sandstorm, brainfart on my part. The big part about Hatred is the Frostheart, where Blizzard Aura means they`ll lose ASF and thus, re-rolls.

@Ferny - I consider the rules perfectly clear. Beasts and monsters don`t benefit from Valour of Ages, Martial Prowess or ASF (all of them High Elf attributes). Furthermore, Games Workshop has gone to great lengths in the recent books to differ between units (e.g. High Elves), factions (e.g. units from Warhammer: Dwarfs) and affiliation (e.g. Forces of Destruction). Lastly, a Phoenix is not a High Elf. I have yet to see a compelling argument for this and would not settle for anything less. I have never heard this ruled differently, either. If it has been, I`d like to see the reasoning behind it.

---

Just got home from a game vs DoC. Report will come soon, hopefully. Predictions? ;)

Author:  Curu Olannon [ Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - IS done, SD returns! BR vs EMP 05.08

Game vs DoC today. Wanted to try out the dual-tzeentch metal build with horror backup, which I would imagine is an interesting matchup.

.::. Battle Report - 2400 vs Daemons of Chaos (ETC comp) .::.

My list:
Quote:
Prince on Star Dragon: Dragonhelm, Star Lance, Crown of Atrazar, The Other Trickster`s Shard, Shield = 598
Noble BSB on Barded Steed, Banner of the World Dragon, Heavy armour, Shield, Lance = 172
Noble on Barded Steed, Enchanted Shield, Heavy Armour, Ogre Blade = 134
Mage L2 on Steed, Scroll = 155
Mage L2 on Steed, Ironcurse Icon = 135
Heroes = 596, Characters = 1194

17 Silver Helms, Full Command & Shields = 421
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Bows, Champion = 95
5 Silver Helms, Shields, Champion, Musician = 135
Core = 651

3x1 Repeater Bolt Thrower = 210
Frostheart Phoenix = 240
2x1 Great Eagle = 100
Rare = 550

Army total = 2395


His list:
Quote:
Tzeentch Herald, L2, Metal
Tzeentch Herald, L2, Metal

5x10 Horrors

2x5 Furies
1 Beast
1 Beast
4 Beasts
2x5 Hounds
2 Nurglings

Skillcannon
3 Flies, banner, poison
4 Flies, banner, pennant, poison


I got really bad spells for the first mage, tempest and fiery, but had to keep them to ensure healing. Second got Apotheosis + Drain Magic. We drew a terrible map and I got the bad side. This made it hard, bordering on impossible, to hide my birds from missiles and the cannon. Furthermore, he spread out across the entire table length (beauty of playing an army that doesn`t care about psychology), so from the get-go I was looking at losing chaff (~300) and RBTs (~210) so if I could wipe a flank and keep the Phoenix alive I`d be in good shape. I managed to grab first turn, having +1.

The following pictures show deployment and the interesting turns:

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Bus was my first drop. I need to have it centrally here to dictate the flow of the game. The problem is the fences on the other side, making it hard for me as DT tests are really dangerous with so many characters. I made a big mistake T1 as I didn`t ensure the Dragon could properly zone the Flies so they got out of its arc. The Phoenix thus had to charge them, not a good prospect as this is dicey. On the East my chaff predictably died. T2 I made another mistake as small Helms moved to threaten cannon, oblivious to the fact that a single beast had a flank charge on them. This cost me the dart and put the Phoenix in dire straits. It held out for a while and I was lucky in combat, however I couldn`t support it so in the end it died. Meanwhile the bus was trying to manoevre around his things but 2 single Beasts and furies in reserve meant I could never really get to anything important.

His T2 saw an 8v5 magic phase. He started off with a 3D6 IF Searing Doom on the Dragon, causing 2W. He followed up with IF Final Transmutation on the bus, killing off the fighter Noble and the mage with Apotheosis. From here on out it was a slow grind for me, trying to save as many points as possible. The Dragon eventually went down but not before taking the Skullcannon and Horrors with it. The Prince was left alone but luckily it was my turn so I managed to get him in with the BOTWD for protection. Regardless I was bleeding all over the place and didn`t manage to get a lot done myself as magic was pretty much my only way to hurt him. In the end, despite 2 more casts of Final Transmutation, the 3 characters survived along with half the points from the Helms. Still a big blow, counting up points it was a 6-14 loss.

// Evaluation //

I hate Daemons. They are one of the things that simply shouldn`t be in Warhammer. With that said, this matchup I think is playable. Probably not favourable as HE winning big is almost impossible, but a decent sized victory should be doable. My main mistake here was to not ensure my monsters covered the right angles T1. I was too preoccupied with the Skullcannon and the bus. I should`ve taken the time to ensure the destruction of the flies which probably would`ve given me the flank (2 units of horrors, 2 single beasts, L2 non-general, skullcannon and small flies).

Deployment-wise I yet again forgot how much an RBT too close to my unit denies me mobility T1. Hopefully I`ll have learned the lesson soon. With a proper wheel the bus could`ve gone a lot further West, allowing them to move past the obstacles and zone the single beasts better. Against DoC, the static provided by this unit coupled with BOTWD is essential. I never got to take advantage of that this game, unfortunately.

I`m also contemplating spell selection. It`s tempting to go double Soul Quench here but I think the increased chance of getting Apotheosis + Walk is worth it. If you can get both, this matchup suddenly gets a lot more interesting. I tried to blast him with Fiery many times but could only get his characters down to 1W, not giving up any points. It`s an expensive way to utilize magic but at least it beats not having any magic. I really missed Walk here though. When he plays "doorline-hammer" like this, a single cast of Walk allows me to charge T2 instead of T3, which is a big, big difference.

Author:  Ferny [ Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - Double Whammy vs TK & DE 02.09!

Curu Olannon wrote:
@Ferny - I consider the rules perfectly clear. Beasts and monsters don`t benefit from Valour of Ages, Martial Prowess or ASF (all of them High Elf attributes). Furthermore, Games Workshop has gone to great lengths in the recent books to differ between units (e.g. High Elves), factions (e.g. units from Warhammer: Dwarfs) and affiliation (e.g. Forces of Destruction). Lastly, a Phoenix is not a High Elf. I have yet to see a compelling argument for this and would not settle for anything less. I have never heard this ruled differently, either. If it has been, I`d like to see the reasoning behind it.


I'm not gonna argue it because I'm happy enough for it to go either way, so long as I know before I start. But here's a discussion about it:
viewtopic.php?f=68&t=63162

It also come up very recently here, in favour of it counting for everything:
viewtopic.php?f=68&t=67209

I suspect if I were to do more of a trawl I'd find more. However you play it, however you see it, however your meta sees it, and whether you'd settle for it or not, it most definitely is not universally understood the way you play it. Which isn't IMO a problem one way or another. I'm not making the argument for the other way, just that you shouldn't necessarily preach it as given.

Author:  Curu Olannon [ Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - BR vs DoC 05.09!

I wasn`t aware of that Dwarf precedent. That`s at least the best argument thus far.

Author:  Browncastle [ Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - BR vs DoC 05.09!

ouch those deamon armies, Ive seen some batreps with this kind of doc list, on paper It doesnt look that frightening, but they sure have alot of push and staying power.

Jess Im bringing the Anointed to Invasion. I dont have the time to practice with a different list, so Ill just stick to the Allarielle and Anointed. If I get the time, Ill try out Tyrion bus, with 2 lvl2s, and 2 frosthearts, but changing list now would probly just led to mistakes. And I quess that Tyrion list will be even stronger at 2000p (NM)

Author:  sandstorm [ Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - BR vs DoC 05.09!

At this stage it appears as though I will qualify for the ultimates this year, the top ten ranked players from my state qualify. It has an interesting way of comping magic and was wondering what you think would be the best lore choice given a list of prince on steed, archmage on steed, bsb botwd on steed helm bus and 3x frosties. The comp is as follows: Max 5 dice to cast a spell, max 12 dice per phase. Here is where it gets interesting. "Spells with casting values of 15+ are one use only items, you only get to attempt to cast the spell once. If 15+ is the boosted version, you may attempt to cast the lower version as many times as you wish if its casting value is under 15."

Normally without the comp I would just take life and call it a day, but with Dwellers being a one attempt to cast only item on 5 dice, it is simply going to be scrolled. What would be the best lore under this comp in your opinion? Other opponents are likely to be 1x Dark Elves, 1x or 2x High Elves, 1x Daemons, 1x or 2x Skaven, 2x Empire, 1x WOC from memory.

Secondly, the Dragons, Griffons, Eagles and Phoenixes not being hated by Dark Elves makes perfect sense given that they do not reroll failed fear terror and panic checks in turn.

Cheers.

Author:  Curu Olannon [ Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - BR vs DoC 05.09!

@Browncastle - DoC are so hard. Without BOTWD we don't even have a fighting chance. Than said, Dragon is not our best bet here, pretty much any other strong build is better. Will be looking forward to seeing the Anointed at Invasion :)

@sandstorm I actually think this choice is rather obvious: Lore of Light ;) given the meta you are describing I think it is a good fit as well.

Author:  sandstorm [ Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - BR vs DoC 05.09!

I was considering heavens, how do you think heavens and light compare under this comp. Both have 3 good low casting value spells that help with close combat, heavens however has a great damaging causing spell that can be cast whilst in combat. I understand that banishment is great for taking out doomfire warlocks, furies etc but I feel that comet will have more impact on the game over 6 turns. I am always loath to not take a lore with a healing spell(high or life) but can't quite convince myself that either is the best option.

Author:  Curu Olannon [ Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - BR vs DoC 05.09!

What does the rest of the comp look like?

Author:  sandstorm [ Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - BR vs DoC 05.09!

The only other comp is max unit size 50 models/500 points. So soft comp with a hit to unit sizes and super spells. The is no etc style comp for each army, you can take what you want, 18 frosties in horde formation ridden by 9 teclis and 9 alarielle all toting a book of hoeth each etc. :P

Author:  Curu Olannon [ Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - BR vs DoC 05.09!

I would say Teclis and coven of Light then. Big T can grab multiple 15+ spells and keep up constant pressure with double s7 banishment

Author:  Curu Olannon [ Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - BR vs DoC 05.09!

Games vs OnG and EMP tomorrow. Might try out the light coven reavers setup vs Empire, seeing as I have the experience I need against them with the high magic dragon list.

Author:  Curu Olannon [ Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - IS done, SD returns! BR vs EMP 05.08

2 Games today! First vs OnG, a matchup I know is generally hard for High Elves. I was anxious to see how the Dragonlord performs against this list as I had no idea what this matchup is like, nor how to play it.

.::. Battle Report - 2400 vs Orcs and Goblins (ETC comp) .::.

My list:
Quote:
Prince on Star Dragon: Dragonhelm, Star Lance, Crown of Atrazar, The Other Trickster`s Shard, Shield = 598
Noble BSB on Barded Steed, Banner of the World Dragon, Heavy armour, Shield, Lance = 172
Noble on Barded Steed, Enchanted Shield, Heavy Armour, Ogre Blade = 134
Mage L2 on Steed, Scroll = 155
Mage L2 on Steed, Ironcurse Icon = 135
Heroes = 596, Characters = 1194

17 Silver Helms, Full Command & Shields = 421
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Bows, Champion = 95
5 Silver Helms, Shields, Champion, Musician = 135
Core = 651

3x1 Repeater Bolt Thrower = 210
Frostheart Phoenix = 240
2x1 Great Eagle = 100
Rare = 550

Army total = 2395


His list:
Quote:
Black Ork Warboss: General ,Heavy Armour, Armed to the teeth, Talisman of Preservation, Crown of Command, Dragonhelm, 250
Savage Ork Great Shaman: Level 4, Big Waaagh!, Obsidian Loadstone, Sceptre of Stability, Golden Sigil Sword, 280
Savage Ork Big Boss: Battle Standard bearer, Great Weapon, Standard of Discipline, 119
Savage Ork Shaman: Level 1 Big Waaagh!, Lucky Shrunken Head, 120
Night Goblin Shaman: Level 1, Little Waaagh!, Dispell Scroll, 75
Goblin Big Boss on Wolf: Light Armour, Charmed Shield, Dragonbane Gem, Shrikeing Blade, 69

35 Savage Ork Big Unz: Standard, Musician, Second Choppas, 405
20 Night Goblins: shortbows, 2 Fanatics, 110
20 Night Goblins: shortbows, 2 Fanatics, 110

2x 9 Trolls: 2x 315

2x Doom Diver: 2x 80
2x Rock Lobba: 2x 85
Total: 2498


I grabbed Walk, Arcane, Unforging and Apotheosis. He got Hand and Foot, of interest. He had to commit fast so I got most things where I wanted them including the flyers and bus hidden from WMs. The idea was to flank and isolate depending on what I could reach. Despite him having +1, I went first.

The following pictures show deployment and the interesting turns:

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In this picture and the next, the Frostheart`s base is the Star Dragon

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The Frostheart`s base is the Star Dragon

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T1 I moved everything up. A problem here was that my Eagles were deployed on the back line so I couldn`t walk them to draw fanatics. I didn`t want to sacrifice the Reavers for them either (though I should have) and I didn`t place the Reavers in conga formation. This allowed him to create a no-go zone with his Trolls. Basically Reavers could charge bunker with SD, but in such a way that the SD would just be targeting the unit. If I had conga`d them, he`d have a huge problem as the Frostie was in range as well.

T2 then I decided to go for the flank-Trolls instead. A very long charge on the bus (11) but the flyers were almost sure to make it with Reavers having a good chance as well. I took it and all 4 made it. Fanatics made a total mess of things however, killing 6 Helms (on top of a handful already having died to a doom diver) and 3W on the bird. Regardless the Trolls broke and I pursued further. His T2 the other Night Goblins moved up and released fanatics, killing off the Frostheart.

From here on out, my bus was committed as well as my dragon. The first got locked down by his Black Orc Warboss eventually while I tried my best to keep the Trolls out. In the end he got them all in and the bus died. The Dragon ate some WMs and ended up going into the savages. Although this looked rather desperate, the Star Dragon did what a Star Dragon does best and munched down heavily on the unit. T6 was very interesting as he had 6 models left, including a BSB without a ward save, when I rolled a `6` for thunderstomp. Unfortunately I rolled a `1` for the BSB and he barely stood due to Hold Your Ground!

I had the Dragon and 3 RBTs left while he had the majority of his characters + half savage orcs (1 model) points, one unit of trolls and a war machine. I knew it was a loss, but not as bad I had feared. 5-15 not favouring the High Elves

// Evaluation //

Orcs and Goblins are rarely seen around these parts. I can understand this well as it`s an unpredictable and one-dimensional army, but it sure makes for an interesting challenge as they play very differently to many others.

I made 1 strategic error in this game by placing my Eagles so far behind. Getting those Fanatics out is absolutely crucial. I need to pressure them ASAP as it makes it so much easier to make the right decision. Furthermore, the Reavers not congalining (or dual-wide for darting) allowed his Trolls to basically keep the bunker safe T2.

The matchup overall is neutral I believe, but such a Dragonlist has to push vs OnG and the result will always be heavily in favour of one or the other, i.e. it`s highly volatile. It could easily have been a big win for me and it could`ve been even worse. I think drawish results are rare here.

Hopefully lesson learned: I need to handle the impact hits chaff!

Author:  Curu Olannon [ Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - IS done, SD returns! BR vs EMP 05.08

Second game of the day. A clubmate hasn´t played a lot of Warhammer this past year and this time he was trying out an infantry-oriented Empire build. I know from recent experience that this can be a tough composition to face with the Dragonlord. Due to knowing this matchup well enough, I decided to give the Star Coven another try. Read on to see how this encounter played out.

.::. Battle Report - 2400 vs Empire (ETC comp) .::.

My list:
Quote:
Prince on Star Dragon: Star Lance, Dragonhelm, The Other Trickster`s Shard, Golden Crown of Atrazar, Shield = 598

Noble BSB on Barded Steed: Heavy Armour, Lance, Shield, Banner of the World Dragon = 172
Mage L2 Light on Steed, Dispel Scroll - 155
Mage L2 Light on Steed, Sceptre of Stability, Ironcurse Icon - 150
Mage L1 Light on Steed, Ring of Fury - 120
Heroes/Characters: 597/1195

10 Reavers, bows = 170
10 Reavers, bows = 170
10 Reavers, bows = 170
5 Silver Helms, Shields, Champion = 125
Core: 635

4 Repeater Bolt Throwers = 280
Frostheart Phoenix = 240
Great Eagle = 50
Special & Rare: 570

Army Total: 2400


His list:
Quote:
Arch Lector on Waltar, 4++

L2 Metal, scroll
L1 Light
Witch Hunter
BSB, Ulric talisman item
Master Engineer

Big unit of Spears with 2x5 Archers
Big unit of Spears with 2x5 Archers
10 Handgunners

2 cannons
1 Helblaster
1 Steam tank

1 Luminark
[/quote]

I grabbed Timewarp, Banishment, Speed, Net and Pha`s. He got Transmutation of Lead, Searing Doom and Burning Gaze alongside all his innate spells. The plan here was largely the same as last time I faced Empire: Avoid the flank where he`s strong (i.e. where the Helblaster was positioned), flank opposite and concentrate force on one point at a time. Big difference is there was no bus this time around, so breaking steadfast would take some time.

Despite him having +1, I went first.

The following pictures show the deployment and all turns:

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Deployment was a bit awkward. I`m not used to positioning this many Reavers so they got a little crammed together. Regardless by T2 I had everything where I wanted it without serious issues, though at one point a reaver unit had to take a panic test on Ld8 without re-rolls to avoid going off the table... Iffy, but lucky.

He deployed pretty far forward, which allowed me to move aggressively T1 and set up good charges T2 without risking neither the Eastern cannon nor the Stank. I also managed Net on the second cannon and drew his Scroll. RBTs put 2W on the Stank.

T2 then I slammed monsters and helms into detachments with overruns available to keep me in combat. One failed panic, being outside of 3" from the parent unit so I could engage the main target directly. The monsters duly went in while the Helms reached the Cannon on a long overrun.

His response was very slow as his footprint was so huge. He struggled to make the 2nd cannon and Helblaster matter whereas the Stank found itself in a very difficult position. In the end the grind went on for a long time and a mistake on my part (forgetting to reform Helmdarts 5-wide to gain a rank and thus break steadfast) meant it went on for longer than needed. When it broke up, it was his turn and he was free to shoot me. Luckily, Pha`s was up and both the cannon and the stank failed their 4+ roll to be able to shoot.

Endgame saw me make a big mistake. I charged the Luminark with a timewarped Dragon to overrun into the Waltar while I blocked the main unit with Reavers. In the overrun however I forgot to place the Dragon skewed so that the main unit could charge my blockers and overrun into the Dragon. He did just this, and despite me doing max. in the challenge (1W +5 overkill) he won due to static. Only by 1, but I failed my LD9 test (outside of BSB by 2"). The Dragon ran, Waltar pursued but failed to catch while Spears reformed. T6 I ran frostie (2W left), BSB (1W left, failed LoS but he only dealt 1W on D6 wounds) and Helmdart into Spears. I killed the mage, the Frostie survived (1W) and he couldn`t kill the BSB (nor could I kill his with the Frostie, -1 to hit hurts!).

The Dragon rallied and the Prince got shot off. Stank was occupied with Reavers and ended the game on 4W.

Counting up points I was ahead by a little over 600, a 14-6 win to the High Elves!

// Evaluation //

The mistake with the Dragon overrun cost me a LOT of potential points. However, what´s interesting to note in this game is that my main problem was getting to units to co-operate properly. Specifically, I was having problems keeping the BSB close enough and threatening enough to make a difference. This is probably an inherent weakness with the build and my inexperience with it, but it was something I hadn`t anticipated. Sending the Dragon in without healing spells for backup and without BSB re-rolls (you never know when you need it) nor stubborn is a totally different game from what I`m used to.

The Reavers did however manage what I envisioned them to: Stay alive and provide flexible positions for the mages. I think 3 units is a necessity here, the question is whether the context is the right one. More on this later in a dedicated post.

The Steam Tank was easy to handle this game. My opponent is originally an OK player and EMP is new for him. Deploying it 1" away from another unit denied him the opportunity to pivot towards me T1 for example. Furthermore I put lots of wounds on it early with RBTs (though rolled `1´ for D3W 4 times in a row) which rendered it very unpredictable.

Overall a very interesting game against a unique flavour of Empire. I think his army could benefit a lot from an L4 Wizard and probably swap Spears for Halberdiers for added grindiness.

As always, C&C very welcome :)

Author:  Curu Olannon [ Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - Double Whammy vs OnG & EMP 07.09!

.::. Star Coven - Some Thoughts .::.

List being discussed:
Quote:
Prince on Star Dragon: Star Lance, Dragonhelm, The Other Trickster`s Shard, Golden Crown of Atrazar, Shield = 598

Noble BSB on Barded Steed: Heavy Armour, Lance, Shield, Banner of the World Dragon = 172
Mage L2 Light on Steed, Dispel Scroll - 155
Mage L2 Light on Steed, Sceptre of Stability, Ironcurse Icon - 150
Mage L1 Light on Steed, Ring of Fury - 120
Heroes/Characters: 597/1195

10 Reavers, bows = 170
10 Reavers, bows = 170
10 Reavers, bows = 170
5 Silver Helms, Shields, Champion = 125
Core: 635

4 Repeater Bolt Throwers = 280
Frostheart Phoenix = 240
Great Eagle = 50
Special & Rare: 570

Army Total: 2400


The initial idea for the Star Coven was to have a list that allows the Star Dragon to play very versatile. What I have found thus far is that keeping the Coven close to the Dragon + Phoenix is very hard. Often they need to operate on their own. Without re-rolls from BSB and stubborn from BOTWD, this is very risky. Even against Empire I had to take care, and there are far worse armies out there capable of clearing Reavers in a heartbeat.

What this means is that there`s an inherent risk with the list as compared to the High Magic bus variant: If you have to push, you have less options while doing so and you need to risk more. This might seem obvious, but I feel pointing it out is important nonetheless.

What I did find however was that Reavers are exceptionally good at letting a bunch of characters play defensive, evasively, granting them insane mobility and a ton of freedom. I believe it is a setup worth testing out more with this list, but the basic setup for the Coven I think have application areas far outside of playing a Star Dragon. For example I can see this working well as a replacement for Archers (which many armies can easily hunt down and threaten) in infantry-based Coven lists and I can see it being a potential candidate for other lores as well in more evasive lists.

Another interesting approach would be to see whether one can make Lions work with this setup. This is somewhat counter-productive to the original idea (i.e. providing the list with more flexibility), but it grants grinding power beyond what most Star Dragon lists can produce along with a threat prospect that is just brutal: Timewarped Lions.

To conclude then I will likely try this list at least a bit more, preferably in matchups I`m hoping will prove favourable (as Empire are just bad to face anyway they`re not necessarily a proper test for what I`m trying to achieved). I will also look into incorporating Lions, though I have a feeling the points will be stretched. Lastly, if I return to a defensive and/or evasive style of play I most definitely will consider giving this a go ;)

Author:  Mufasa [ Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - Double Whammy vs OnG & EMP 07.09!

Hey!

Your reports got me little bit excited about Star Dragon even though I have all ways considered it to be too hit or miss. Now I may actually test it and see if I enjoy using the big thing :)

I'm interested to know would you change your current list in light of the new End Times rules? Mainly 50% Lords and Heroes.

Author:  Curu Olannon [ Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - Double Whammy vs OnG & EMP 07.09!

Make no mistake, the star dragon is very hit or miss. I do believe this is also largely the case with our other builds though. I would highly recommend testing it, it plays in a unique way.

As for End Times I have not looked at it yet because I don't expect it to become a new standard. You can do some truly crazy stuff with 50% lords though, like cavprince + l4 + bus AND star dragon or double star dragon...

Author:  Browncastle [ Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - Double Whammy vs OnG & EMP 07.09!

I kinda like your core setup, Ive played around with big units of reavers my self, as you might have noticed. My setup is 9 silverhelms and 2 x 9 reavers, by doing this you have that 1 unit with 2+ armour, so if you screen your mage bunker reavers, the screen wont just be shoot to pieces. Granted I dont run mages but 2 cheap 1+ as nobles, but the way I run them Is kinda similar, I jump from unit to unit all the time, making sure my nobles are where they are needed all the time. I think you should try this setup with your light coven, Ibelive this will help getting the BotWD where its needed.

Author:  Axiem [ Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - Double Whammy vs OnG & EMP 07.09!

Quote:
The initial idea for the Star Coven was to have a list that allows the Star Dragon to play very versatile. What I have found thus far is that keeping the Coven close to the Dragon + Phoenix is very hard. Often they need to operate on their own. Without re-rolls from BSB and stubborn from BOTWD, this is very risky. Even against Empire I had to take care, and there are far worse armies out there capable of clearing Reavers in a heartbeat.

What this means is that there`s an inherent risk with the list as compared to the High Magic bus variant: If you have to push, you have less options while doing so and you need to risk more. This might seem obvious, but I feel pointing it out is important nonetheless.

What I did find however was that Reavers are exceptionally good at letting a bunch of characters play defensive, evasively, granting them insane mobility and a ton of freedom. I believe it is a setup worth testing out more with this list, but the basic setup for the Coven I think have application areas far outside of playing a Star Dragon. For example I can see this working well as a replacement for Archers (which many armies can easily hunt down and threaten) in infantry-based Coven lists and I can see it being a potential candidate for other lores as well in more evasive lists.

Another interesting approach would be to see whether one can make Lions work with this setup. This is somewhat counter-productive to the original idea (i.e. providing the list with more flexibility), but it grants grinding power beyond what most Star Dragon lists can produce along with a threat prospect that is just brutal: Timewarped Lions.

To conclude then I will likely try this list at least a bit more, preferably in matchups I`m hoping will prove favourable (as Empire are just bad to face anyway they`re not necessarily a proper test for what I`m trying to achieved). I will also look into incorporating Lions, though I have a feeling the points will be stretched. Lastly, if I return to a defensive and/or evasive style of play I most definitely will consider giving this a go


Interesting analysis! I like the list a lot, as it's quite different to what's popular nowadays. I think if you were going to try the Lions however, you'd likely have to change to an Anointed (either on Flamespyre or Frosty) in order to get enough points, especially at 2400. Otherwise, you might have to drop too many Bolt Throwers to make it worthwhile. This does compromise your original premise however.

I do think however, Lions + double Monster + mobile character bunkers could be quite powerful.

Axiem

Author:  Curu Olannon [ Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - Double Whammy vs OnG & EMP 07.09!

@Browncastle - I`ll try it out some more at least, but I`m not sure if this is the right fit.

@Axiem - Lions + Light indeed takes up tons of points. Dropping RBTs kills the flexibility of the list, no doubt. The question is if it can work without. I doubt it.

New BR coming up :)

Author:  Curu Olannon [ Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - IS done, SD returns! BR vs EMP 05.08

Another game vs DE, this time the dreaded peg-circus, shooty-avoidance build.

.::. Battle Report - 2400 vs Dark Elves (ETC comp) .::.

My list:
Quote:
Prince on Star Dragon: Dragonhelm, Star Lance, Crown of Atrazar, The Other Trickster`s Shard, Shield = 598
Noble BSB on Barded Steed, Banner of the World Dragon, Heavy armour, Shield, Lance = 172
Noble on Barded Steed, Enchanted Shield, Heavy Armour, Ogre Blade = 134
Mage L2 on Steed, Scroll = 155
Mage L2 on Steed, Ironcurse Icon = 135
Heroes = 596, Characters = 1194

17 Silver Helms, Full Command & Shields = 421
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Bows, Champion = 95
5 Silver Helms, Shields, Champion, Musician = 135
Core = 651

3x1 Repeater Bolt Thrower = 210
Frostheart Phoenix = 240
2x1 Great Eagle = 100
Rare = 550

Army total = 2395


His list:
Quote:
Dreadlord on Dark Steed: General, Brace of Rptr Handbows , Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield, Giant Blade, Dawn Stone, The Other Tricksters Shard, 287
Supreme Sorceress: Level 4, Lore of Death, Dispel Scroll, Ring of Hotek, 295
Master on Dark Pegasus: Lance, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield, Cloak of Twilight, 188
Master on Dark Pegasus: Lance, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Battle Standard bearer, Talisman of Preservation, Charmed Shield, 211
Master on Dark Pegasus: Lance, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield, Armour of Destiny, 184

5 Dark Riders: Rptr Crossbow, Shields, 100
10 Dark Riders: Rptr Crossbow, Shields, 200
24 Darkshards: FCG, Banner of the Eternal Flame, 328

5 Harpies: 75
4x 1 Reaper Bolt Thrower: 4x 70

2x 5 Doomfire Warlocks: 2x 125
Total: 2398


I got Walk, Heal, Fiery, Soul Quench. He got Spirit Leech, DnD, Fate, Sun.

The following pictures show deployment and most of the game:
His entire army was proxed but given the nature of the units I think it`s pretty clear what was what, with the exception of WL/DR

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We started off on a rather skewed deployment, with me getting first turn despite his +1. I charged down my side where I could safely engage 2 RBTs fairly early without risking too much. Magic saw IF Fiery land on big Dark Riders, I lost the spell but kept Walk. Shooting saw 1 RBT die, so I had a good start. He then moved up on the opposite flank but it took him quite some time to make an impact on my RBTs, in the meantime I took our some of his fast cav while Fiery burnt down the Riders to only 2 remaining (yay, half points!). On the other site I cleared the corner and at this point we had a mexican standoff for a few turns. Both scrolls were intact and he had 3 chaff units to block me out with. This, combined with all pegs having landed in the Darkshards, meant the bus could not push. I was thus left with pushing with monsters or leaving him be. I did get the scroll, but too late, so I couldn`t risk a push. This was a very tough spot for both of us. I tried getting small points but Soul Quench wouldn`t quite cooperate, 1 boosted resulted in only 2/3 dead Warlocks. In the end then he sent the Pegs towards me to hopefully grab small points, which created an opening that I took. I forced a break test on 8- but he passed (this happened after the last photo). He couldn`t kill much from me either so the game ended with small points on both sides: 10-10 draw.

// Evaluation //

A highly tactical game where we quickly dug into our separate trenches with roughly 21" of no-man`s land between us. The monsters couldn`t pressure him enough as the constant threat of purple sun and counter-charges forced me to be careful: There`s not much worse than committing too much and having to blow the scroll prior to actually engaging, in which case PS can just win him the game, bigtime.

There is an alternative approach. That is to deploy centrally and push 100%. I think this might be viable if I have one less drop than him (these lists both have 8, so I can still do it with +1 IF I win the roll-off). I think this is a risky play as there`s so much he can block the bus with (that, and 2+ pegs into the bus is disastrous, doubly so if one of them`s the cloak guy), but it`s worth trying out. The only way for me to reduce drops by 1 is to swap an Eagle for an RBT though, and I do like my Eagles.

Hope you enjoyed the read despite the low casualties. The Dragon did nothing all game apart from flaming a Warlock T6 (he survived) in terms of non-movement. The Phoenix ate a couple of RBTs.

Author:  Curu Olannon [ Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - BR vs Dark Elves 10.09!

So tomorrow I`m leaving to attend a 2400 point tournament this weekend: Invasion. Contrary to most events I attend this is completely uncomped in terms of army restrictions, so I`m eager to see what people will build. Thus far I`ve seen the worst of the worst from Empire, 30 Hexwraiths and Skaven filth beyond belief as theoretical candidates. What will I take? Well, you`ll have to wait and see ;) Some people still have not decided so I`ll simply show up and surprise everyone I hope. Suffice is to say it`ll be an interesting weekend.

For those of you interested in reading more, you can read the rulespack (including scenarios and maps) here: http://www.invasion.no/wp-content/uploa ... FB_FAQ.pdf

Tournament reports coming next week :)

Author:  sparkytrypod [ Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - BR vs Dark Elves 10.09!

best of luck, be interesting to see what kind of lists turn up.

I am attending a 2k super light comp tourney in 2 weeks (including end times rules, so 50% lords heroes etc!!) so il be interested to see what lists people have at this event.

Author:  Curu Olannon [ Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - BR vs Dark Elves 10.09!

44/60 points. Made a big mistake game 3 that cost me an 11-9 down to a 4-16, otherwise I would have been in the lead I think. Leader at 53 or so, have to step up my game tomorrow.

Author:  Sackree [ Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - BR vs Dark Elves 10.09!

How many players in the tournament? Best of luck for tomorrow

Author:  Curu Olannon [ Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - BR vs Dark Elves 10.09!

20 players, so a relatively smell field but some tough nuts to crack. I finished @79bp and got best painted. How did the rest do? Tournament reports incoming next week :)

Author:  Curu Olannon [ Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - BR vs Dark Elves 10.09!

.::. Invasion 2014 - Introduction .::.

Back at a computer now so I don`t have to type on my phone. I don`t know when I`ll have time to post up my games, but they were 5 really interesting ones where I learned a lot. Uncomped play brings some ridiculous situations to the table and reminds me why I`m not a fan. I ended up taking a slightly modified version of the ETC-comped Dragonlist I`ve played with recently (I just swapped around a few points to include 2 more standards for scenario reasons) because I frankly need more training for BSK in November. Yes, I would have taken double Frosthearts instead if I had prepared specifically for this event and yes, it`s my own fault that I`m handicapping myself like this. It`s all about priorities though and RBTs definitely have solid matchups as well.

Oh and I`m officially naming this list the Union Pacific after I railroaded random movement units no end this weekend (2 Skaven players with HPAs and 1 Empire player with STanks). I can completely understand that people find this retardedly frustrating to play against, but in my opinion having units as power as HPAs and STanks with random movement in the first place is retardedly frustrating to play against so I have little sympathy. Truth be told, I think the option of railroading these is largely helping neutralize some of the insane aspects of random movement to the point where it almost feels ok.

The field was small and very varied. Last year`s winner was a local guy who is (probably) the best in the area. I didn`t play him this year, but last year he apparantly took the whole thing 100-0 over 5 games. This time he finished on roughly half the points: Lots of people had taken the trip from other cities (including myself and +5 from our club). Furthermore we saw themed armies (mono-Khorne WoC with 0 magic or scrolls from said player), balanced armies (Bretonnia with grailstar, MSU core and trebuchets), the usual suspects (HE special character stars) and the "OMG THIS IS UNCOMPED" madness (skaven with 200 slaves, 8 engineers and all toys, empire with L4 Life + L4 Shadow alongside double stank etc). It made for a dynamic set of matches throughout the weekend with some elements I`m not used to seeing.

Somehow my army got nominated for best painted. From a technical point of view I did not have the best painted army, but I suppose the rather large amount of conversions and custom-built models/unit fillers give the army a unique look. I`ve long been wanting to re-paint it all to the same standard as my characters (which I`m quite happy with) and this nomination really gave me motivation to go further down that road as I think the army would look wonderful with a solid job on every model. What`s more is I actually ended up winning when faced up against armies that I was very impressed with. I had several guys approach me and comment on the monsters in particular, but one guy (actually a British one having taken the trip solely to play, great guy :D) pointed out that he was a huge fan of my metal painting as he think it really stood out without being "in your face". I was very humbled by this win and it most definitely makes me want to put more of an effort into the modelling and painting part of the hobby again, which I have been doing far too little of for the past few months.

Over the weekend I faced Bretonnia, Skaven, Skaven, Empire and High Elves (games 1 through 5, respectively) and I promise I`ll try and get the reports up as soon as possible. Teasers will be up tomorrow at the very least with a tense snapshot from each game ;) Thanks for reading, watch this space for tournament updates!

Author:  SpellArcher [ Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - Invasion 2014 Intro!

Admit it Curu, you're only in it for the paint.

:)

Author:  Curu Olannon [ Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - Invasion 2014 Intro!

Exposed at last :mrgreen:

Author:  Curu Olannon [ Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Path To Glory - BR vs Dark Elves 10.09!

.::. Invasion 2014 - Teasers .::.

Game 1 saw my opponent play a somewhat odd variant of Bretonnia with a grailstar. Basically I could point my bus at him and it would be very hard for him to avoid a disastrous combat. The Dragon would have to be careful though seeing as his lord sported HKB along with the ASF sword.

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With a sacrificial dart holding twice on Insane Courage, has he bought the time he needs to disrupt my attack?

Game 2 was against Skaven with dual Hellpits. It was time to call the Union Pacific and make the ridiculous rules that make up random movement actually suffer a bit. The goal was to disrupt the center asap and create a favourable combat against the Bell.

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Have the High Elves committed too soon or will the flying monsters carry the day?

Game 3 was also against Skaven but with a totally different list. Dual Greyseers and half a million Slaves alongside countless engineers (15 pts redirectors? Yes please!) backed up by artillery. My goal here was to take a ranged fight mid-early, hoping for magic and support to carry the day whilst picking off any stragglers and engage lategame for a decisive blow.

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With the Star Dragon down, can the bus hold its own or will the Skaven prove too numerous?

Game 4 saw me face off against Empire with dual Steam Tank and a Runefang-Stubborn bus. I was glad he didn`t have any cannons, which in my opinions makes this matchup playable. The goal was to isolate the Demis or the Stanks early on and multi-charge the bus of doom later on.

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With the heroic sacrifice from the Demigryphs, has the Empire bought enough time for a counter-attack or will the dual-Eagle sacrifice save the High Elves?

Game 5 saw me get what I consider to be a very good matchup for me: Infantry High Elves. Basically the monsters have to engage his Allariellestar and it`s game over. One big problem though: the middle of the table had a house. Dwellers in 360 degrees with no sustained combat? Disastrous.

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The Vindicators line up to deny the corrupted Elves an opportunity to get into the central haven. Will they succeed?

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