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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:10 pm 
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#bringthefilth !!!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:15 pm 
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I can at least #postTheFilth:

Quote:
Teclis 450
Light Archmage L4 Power Stone, Ironcurse Icon 245
Light Mage Dispel Scroll 110
Light Mage 85
Lothern Sea Helm, Shield of the Merwyrm, Warrior Bane, BSB 145

30 Archers, FCG 330
10 Archers, musician 110
2x5 Reavers 160

27 White Lions, FCG, BOTWD 431

4 RBTs 280
Great Eagle 50

Total 2396


Double S7 Banishment is a really strong counter to all the nastiness out there and Teclis allows for enough cop-out spells to handle just about anything, with a few select exceptions.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:26 pm 
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a serious storm of magic and shooting, super defensive, not my cup of tea, but effective.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:43 pm 
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Curu Olannon wrote:
@NexS - Nope, unfortunately not :(

Dayum!!!
However, I'm putting the old elves on hold until I find out what's going on with the end times. Don't want to waste my efforts in converting stuff :/

EDIT:
Curu Olannon wrote:
I can at least #postTheFilth:

Quote:
Teclis 450
Light Archmage L4 Power Stone, Ironcurse Icon 245
Light Mage Dispel Scroll 110
Light Mage 85
Lothern Sea Helm, Shield of the Merwyrm, Warrior Bane, BSB 145

30 Archers, FCG 330
10 Archers, musician 110
2x5 Reavers 160

27 White Lions, FCG, BOTWD 431

4 RBTs 280
Great Eagle 50

Total 2396


Double S7 Banishment is a really strong counter to all the nastiness out there and Teclis allows for enough cop-out spells to handle just about anything, with a few select exceptions.

Love it. Goodbye Nagash. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:51 pm 
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@sparkytrypod - Yeah it's pretty boring to play as it boils down to 6-dicing the most important spell basically all the time, but it's effective. I have yet to decide whether I can withstand playtesting it for 2 months and playing a tournament with it ^^

@NexS - As I said, pure filth ;) It struggles with WoC though I fear and troop-spam, if anyone's still doing that.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:03 pm 
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True, you'd really have to push the Lions down a flank hard with WoC, but you could shems spam the big things and take them out one unit at a time?
Easier said than done, I know!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:04 pm 
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Sheffield Slaughter comp limits the PD generation to a max of 2 dice but I think the Forbidden Rod is still worth it for such a list which has to rely on good magic phases to win. We used to be pretty satisfied if the Banner of Sorcery gave 2 extra PD in that crucial magic phase! Even at 2PD it gets the job done! Do you think it's worth it to shave some pts. to get that in? The Sea Helm carrying the Sword of Anti-Heroes could also be a life saver at times, for example when the bunker gets swarmed by PegMasters or ScarVets. You can't kill em' all with those S7 Banishments when they're so tough, magic is unreliable, PD is comp-nerfed and there are so many of them running/flying around! ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:28 pm 
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@NexS - The problem with WoC is that they send in their stupidly durable 1+/3++ with re-rolling 1s ward save stubborn disc lord and tie the Lions down. From there, hell breaks loose with chariots galore and chimerae hitting me, eventually. As soon as he locks me down, I cannot cast magic missiles. This is a big problem. I am, truth be told, tempted to take Fozzrik's Folding Fortress on the L4 to counter things like this if I end up taking the list. Pure filth ;)

@Lecai - Interesting ideas. The problem is that there is no-where to shave points, save for ditching an RBT. Could perhaps do this, I have already been considering the Rod as even +2PD is well worth it in the crucial phases :)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:41 pm 
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yeah. i suppose so, and the worst thing is that is the "norm" for WoC, and this is "uber cheese" for HE.
It's criminal.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:43 pm 
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Well, WoC certainly has their weak matchups as well. Their go-to Lord is just tailor-made to take on HE that don't sport a Star Dragon, Cavprince or High Magic though ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:51 pm 
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It's true that WoC don't deal well with high manoeuvrable armies. But they are terribly difficult to get worthwhile points out of when it's a power list (warriors, knights, juggers, chariots and chosen). I suppose I need to focus on one thing at a time!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:55 pm 
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I rarely find WoC to be a big problem to be up against. I do however fear their Slaanesh builds, which have somehow fallen out of favour. Way back when our old book was still in play, I faced a semi-soft WoC build featuring an L4 Slaanesh sorceror lord. He is terrifying for us High Elves. I noticed that Italy ran such a WoC list at this year's ETC, check this out:

Quote:
Daemon Prince of Slaanesh: Mark of Slaanesh; General; Magic Level 4; Lore of Slaanesh; Chaos Armour; Daemonic Flight;Charmed Shield; The Other Tricksters Shard; Chaos Familiar; Scaled Skin - 505
Chaos Sorcerer: No Mark; Lore of Shadow; Magic Level 1; Dispel Scroll - 135
Exalted Hero of Tzeentch on Daemonic Mount: Mark of Tzeentch; Great Weapon; Barding; Battle Standard; Talisman of Preservation - 246
Exalted Hero of Tzeentch on Daemonic Mount: Mark of Tzeentch; Halberd; Dragonhelm; Talisman of Endurance; Burning Body - 211
22 Chaos Warriors of Tzeentch: Mark of Tzeentch; Chaos Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician; Blasted Standard; Aspiring Champion - 446
5 Marauder Horsemen of Slaanesh; Mark of Slaanesh - 75
5 Marauder Horsemen of Slaanesh; Mark of Slaanesh; Spear - 80
8 Trolls - 280
2x 1 Hellcannon – 2x 210
Total: 2398


This kind of WoC frightens me. Chariot-spam and crushers can be isolated, but this? How do you approach this? The whole army camps in a corner with enough magic and firepower to make you cry like a baby. Add to that, it has no soft targets to go for and it even has redirectors!!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:59 pm 
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Whoa..

Maybe Comet of Cassandora? Multiple cav buses?
Are hellcannons's magic in their attacks (being daemons), and BotWD would keep one safe from harm?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:01 am 
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BOTWD helps, yes, but they threaten everything you haven't bunkered in said BOTWD-unit ;) Besides, the Exalteds and Troll threaten almost everything we can make with the BOTWD as well, apart from certain configurations like the deathtrain (which I still believe is an insanely powerful build unless you expect Life to be popular).

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:04 am 
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Maybe, you could play for the draw and take the win with battle points after comp?
Ha!

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:08 am 
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As always, there are options to consider when up against a tough army ;)

WoC are not what's keeping me up at nights currently though. Elves are. They are so hard to play against. I don't think people realize just how strong Wood Elves are just yet. Heed my words: They will have a lot of success in 2015 and we will be one of the easiest matchups for them.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:12 am 
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I agree. My lizards don't have too much trouble with them, but HE... :/
Frosties and flamey annointed may do some good damage (lots of flammable units), but their units are small (usually) so combat will see our victories.

The main problem i have with the new WE book is their core spearmen. "Core" spearmen with WS5, stubborn.
"Core" is used loosely.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:48 pm 
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Just read more info from endtimes khaine, and it seems just 6 dicing spells will be difficult to accomplish; every time you are about to throw a spell you have to roll a d6, whats how many dice you have for that spell. So without powerstone, cheese or sacrifisal dagger you wont be able to use 6 dice spells as a tactic. And 15+ spells can only be used once pr magic phase, while other spells can be cast as many times as you wish as long as you make the casting attempt. So multiple cast of small banishment is viable. And the fact all wizards now are Loremaster, the old loremaster rule, has become something like book of hoeth:-O Rerolling even 6s to deny IF. Do sheffield S. use all the new endtimes rules or only 50% lords?

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Last edited by Browncastle on Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:03 pm 
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@NexS - Lizards will do fine vs WE I suppose, if trueflight isn´t all over the place ;) I can see it being better than for HE at least.

@Browncastle - End Times are campaign books, like Storm of Magic. I don´t think Sheffield uses any End Times rules apart from allowing the lists. The rest (Lore of Undeath + 50%) is now a part of the official rules.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:39 pm 
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Ok, yeah, endtimes are really confusing when it comes to whats offical rules. And I just read through the sheffield comp pack, and it doesnt mention elf legion.

A funny note, In the comp pack it mentions WoC is 2200p, unless you take only one set of marks in your army. Then in the example army they show a WoC army with marks of tzeentch and Skullcrushers(MoK) at 2400p:P hehe

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:42 pm 
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folding fortress!!!! I just got sick!

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 5:14 pm 
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@Browncastle - Just stick to the BRB until you intend to attend a tournament with different rules or you´re playing games with your friends :)

@sparkytrypod - Folding fortress is the worst item in 8th edition. It just dwarfs the Banner of the World Dragon, Maw Banner etc. Regardless, I won´t be bringing it. I can´t make a decent model myself in time, furthermore it´s hard to transport and super boring to play.

Currently thinking of the Light Council list. I have an idea I might be trying out ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:34 pm 
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Oh ho, a secret plan!

If combined elven lists are allowed at Sheffield will it influence your list do you think?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:10 pm 
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sparkytrypod wrote:
Oh ho, a secret plan!

If combined elven lists are allowed at Sheffield will it influence your list do you think?


While taking Malekith with <insert BOTWD-bus or huge unit of Witch Elves> with undispellable Walk Between Worlds alongside big units of Warlocks for support sounds broken, I likely won´t be going down that road. Even if Malekith´s banned the list is still quite capable (with Witchelves core and WL-BOTWD special alongside a Coven of Light...) despite probably losing 200 points. The main deal for me though is that I don´t expect to visit a lot of tournaments that allow ET lists. As such, I´m more interested in playing conventional lists to better understand the various ways High Elves can work at ETC2015. I am sure they can be built in many different ways and it takes time to explore them all. Whatever list I end up taking to Sheffield, I expect it to be a list that at least plays like what we assume some nations will take next year. This gives us invaluable experience and besides, mixing things up is fun ;)

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:34 am 
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WE players generally think of Lizardmen as being a decent match-up. Because the archers are good at shooting skinks.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:04 pm 
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While trueflight is great against Skinks I believe Wood Elves should fear the returning, poisoned missiles as well. Furthermore the Slann + Heavens Skink(s) deal a lot of damage to no-save Elves.

Looks like Sheffield is considering to use End Times magic. I sure hope they don't end up using it, it's ridiculous enough with allowing the ET SCs already. Still haven't decided on what to bring.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:27 pm 
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Hi Curu.

Just spend some time reading through your reports on your teclis list. Great stuff!
So first of all, congrats on your call to the ETC team! For what I can read it really seems you earned it.

I'm going to a big tournament soon, which is 2400 pts ETC. and they allow special characters. I know it is a little off topic, but I was hoping you could give some advise on a teclis list.
Do you think Teclis is still a competitive choice in a ETC environment, now that those big spells are harder to cast with the 5 dice cap?
And in hindsight would you have chosen they same list you ended up playing? Didn't you miss those support elements? Personally I don't think he needs that big of a bunker. I was thinking about 20-25 lions with 2 light mages. One with a dispel scroll and the other with the forbidden rod making for one hell of a magic phase.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:38 pm 
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Hey Andros, thanks :)

At 2k I had to make compromises when bringing Teclis. I figured a big unit of Lions would be best in an all-comers environment as they would be able to deter enemies by their sheer size. It also allows for a number of reform shenanigans. Throughout the tournament, both of these aspects were important.

What I was not that happy with was the Archers. If I could, I would probably have swapped them for Silver Helms (which are brutal with Mindrazor on 6D6) but this is mostly because my list wasn´t designed to push and score big points: The Helms would´ve allowed this.

At 2400 you can get enough points to actually make your magical barrage strong enough to score big points. At least I think so. In this case, I´m not sure whether Lions or Archers are best.

I would go about an ETC-Teclis list as follows:
Teclis
L4 Light Power stone
L1 Light Scroll
L1 Light
Lothern Sea Helm BSB

<core>

White Lions

<rare>

Core and rare are up to tastes. I haven´t playtested any of this yet (I have roughly 10 games that I haven´t reported here for our ETC preparations but neither of them have been with anything close to this list). Archers + RBTs might be superior, Helms + Frostheart might be superior. It´s hard to say ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:21 pm 
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Thanks for your response.
Ah I see about the shenanigans with having him in a big unit. Getting in range with the big spells and such.

I know it is probably not the most optimal choice in our book, but I just wanted to try out Teclis, and make the best list possible with him. What army to take under the new ETC is a very interesting topic, which I hope you will discuss later on at your blog:). It would seem we need to pull out our elite infantry again. Lions with the banner and to frosties :wink:

For the Teclis list, I was planning on bringing Caradryan, seahelm and 2 mages. Teclis should be fairly safe in the back row. I your games however it didn't seem to be a problem for you to keep him out of combat, simple because no one really attacked your big block of lions. I guess that would be another reason for fielding such a big terrifying block.
Right now I'm more drawn to the archers + boltthrowers with spells like enchanted blades, sword of rhuin and withering, because the shooting phase then becomes absolutely insane.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:41 pm 
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Something like this, then:

Teclis 450
L4 Stone 240
L1 Scroll 110
Sea Helm BSB Warrior Bane, Merwyrm Shield 145
L1 85

Archers + Reavers = 600

28 WL, FCG, BOTWD 444

4 RBTs 280

Army Total 2354

Double Banishment, tons of light buffs, lots of shooting aided by Teclis´ buffs. Even a few points left ;)

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