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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:09 pm 
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That's really good food for thought :) between my LM and HE, I find the skinks and eagles are great, but I'm yet to fully work out how to use reavers to their full potential.
Which is why I really enjoy reading through these types of forums!

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:38 pm 
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I'm finding Reavers less and less useful. People seem to be moving away from big units that pose a significant threat. True, there are still MC units, STanks and a few other suspects out there, but mobility, flexibility and multiple threats seem to be an increasing trend. This means that Reavers (and Eagles, for that matter) are less useful than they used to be. Using the Reavers properly also requires them to stay close to what they want to protect as their big footprint and M18 fastcav is no-where near the flexibility of M20 small footprint Eagle ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:56 pm 
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Boldly played Curu.

Do you feel using the fence as a springboard as you did was the best way to play this one? Obviously the result speaks volumes but was hiding a realistic option for example? Or approaching from another angle?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:23 pm 
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There are basically two ways you can play this matchup: Hide and bleed or balls to the wall gung-ho style. The former is no fun and I don't believe it'll work out either: Given his poor deployment I'm better off trying to go hard on him rather than stay still and eat cannons + Dwellers + Banishment for 6 turns. This will likely lead to a 12-14 point loss.

By deciding to go all in, there are a number of advantages with the central walls. First of all, he will usually at least lose one cannonball. Secondly, it was about my max allowance, enabling me to push up hard and thus utilizing my M20 to close in as quickly as possible. Lastly, if he wants to counter-charge, it's not a favourable position for him to be in with it being a defended obstacle and all. If he loses, I'll also have a very lucrative position from which to attack further. I don't think there were better angles to attack from. The extreme West was covered by the HBVG and going further East would see no cover and a bigger distance to his juicy units. I measured his STank to need 13" to reach the Phoenix, which is an acceptable risk (26% on 3d6).

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:24 pm 
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Today I had the opportunity to have another game due to change of plans. I was facing a relatively soft Dark Elf list that I had marked as a very favourable matchup, quite the opposite of the last game vs Empire.

.::. Battle Report - 2400 vs Dark Elves (ETC comp) .::.

Lists:

Quote:
Prince on Star Dragon: General, Dragonhelm, Star Lance, Golden Crown of Atrazar, The Other Trickster`s Shard, Shield, 598
Noble on Ithilmar Barded Elven Steed: Battle Standard Bearer, Banner of the World Dragon, Heavy Armour, Shield, Lance, 172
Noble on Ithilmar Barded Elven Steed: Enchanted Shield, Heavy Armour, Ogre Blade, 134
Mage on Elven Steed: Level 2, Lore of High Magic, Dispel Scroll, 155
Mage on Elven Steed: Level 2, Lore of High Magic, Ironcurse Icon, 135

17 Silver Helms: FCG, Shields, 421
5 Ellyrian Reavers: Champion, Bows (Swap), 95
5 Silver Helms: Champion, Musician, Shields, 135

3x 1 Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower: 3x 70
Frostheart Phoenix: 240
2x 1 Great Eagle: 2x 50

Army Total = 2395


Quote:
Supreme Sorceress: Dark Steed, Lvl 4, Lore of Light, Talisman of Endurance, 270
Master: Dark Pegasus, Cloak of Twilight, HA, Lance, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield, 188
Master: Dark Steed, BSB, Ring of Hotek, HA, repeater xbow, Sea Dragon Cloak, 170
26 Witch Elves: FCG, Banner of Eternal Flame, 326
2x7 Dark Riders: shields, xbows, 2x140

18 Executioners: musician/banner, 236
2x1 Reaper Bolt Thrower: 2x70
2x1 War Hydra: 2x160

19 Sisters of Slaughter: musician/banner, Banner of Swiftness, 320
6 Warlocks: 150
Army Total: 2400 points


Pre-Battle Thoughts

This list basically poses no real threats to either my Frostheart or my Star Dragon. The bus has to be a bit cautious with the Hydras, but not overly so as I can rely on my static. I do need to keep things away so I can engage piecemeal though, which means I have to divide and conquer by using my chaff well. Anyway, the point of him having no real threats means that I can deploy centrally and commit early, so my first drop was to be the bus in the very middle. I could then get better positions for my chaff and monsters with RBTs having clear lines of fire as well.

My opponent deployed centrally as well with executioners threatening the center with killing blows, flanked by Sisters on one side and Witchelves on the other. The Warlocks, acting as a bunker with Hotek BSB + L4, was behind them and the Hydras were both positioned centrally. I had my Dragon outside of his RBTs' arc of fire, allowing me to advance freely in the cover of a hill and set up for a T3 engagement. Arguably, it would be worth considering to deploy him next to the bus and go full speed ahead T1, but I considered it wiser to flank with him as he was deployed very tight regardless.

The following pictures show the deployment and early game:

Image

Image

I rush ahead, taking care to leave his Hydras with unlikely charges, yet tempting him. Dragon was safe behind the hill. First magic phase saw me roll up 4v3, I tried a boosted Walk on the Dragon which failed to meet the required value by 1. Shooting didn't do a whole lot.

Image

My opponent landed the Cloakpeg to threaten my flank, basically forcing me to do something to address this issue. With him shuffling the Executioners as well my Dragon could see him past the hill, with the corner-to-corner distance being 18". This meant my bus had to roll 8+, Dragon 8+, Frostheart 6+ to reach the Executioners and furthermore the Helmdart could reach his main bunker on a 10+. With the possibility of overrunning into the L4 + BSB this chance was too good to pass up on, so I declared all 4 charges. The Frostheart and Helmdart both failed to meet their rolls, but the Dragon and Bus both reached the Executioners. The Helms could still overrun into the bunker on a 7+, or so I thought... Magic saw me Walk the Frostheart to the middle of his lines. An Eagle had blocked out one Hydra from counter-charging. When combat started, my ASF troops killed all but 1 Executioner. This meant that his Standard Bearer was left alive, which made things very, very awkward: Instead of the guy on the corner surviving, I now had to shuffle the Dragon towards the center of his unit, thereby blocking my own overrun-path. What's worse was that I was now stuck in a position where his Witchelves + Cloakpeg could charge me. The Dragon at least overran to lock down the second Hydra. I reformed the Helms to receive the Witchelves to the front, in a position where I could make way with both Nobles to at least deal some damage back at them: With a little luck he could break my steadfast and that would be devastating.

Image

My opponent decided not to take the risk and instead charged the Helmdart while the Cloakmaster failed to charge the Eagle that blocked his Hydra. RBTs dealt 3W to the Frostheart. Dragon ate the Hydra and reformed towards his bunker.

Image

Dragon charged bunker but failed to catch them despite a miserable flee roll (I was 19" away). Cav reformed 180 degrees. Frostheart into RBT. IF Fiery on Sisters killed almost everyone. Eagle into other RBT. RBTs killed BSB, as they were fleeing and he found himself on the flank a single bolt automatically hit him.

Image

After this, his bunker failed to rally so it was all about mopping up for me.

Image

Image

He had killed my Helmdart and both Eagles. Towards the end my Nobles both took a wound finishing off his Witchelves but nobody died. The Prince died to a desperate gamble by the Dark Riders to lock the Dragon away from combat, trying to preserve the L4 + Warlocks but to no avail as the Star Dragon murdered them back and finished off the L4, pursuing the Warlocks off the table.

Without counting up points it was a clear 20-0 victory to the High Elves!

// Evaluation //

Without significant magic or shooting and just a single pegmaster, there is very little Dark Elves can do to threaten this list. This game shows how devastating these matchups are when my monsters have next to zero threats and can operate as they please.

The bus getting caught in an iffy situation could admittedly have turned the game around. It would come down to rolling dice here and with the massive amounts of points in the bus, I think my opponent should have taken this opportunity (it was his best shot at getting back in the game). Without having done the math, suffice is to say it probably would've been a close call with his flank + charge + downhill and the rest of our static evening out, more or less. I think the Witchelves were full strength at this point, meaning he likely would've broken my steadfast as well. This whole situation did occur in the first place because I failed to evaluate what would happen if I only "nearly" killed his Executioners at the ASF stage, which I should've kept in mind. Hopefully, lesson learned!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:22 pm 
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The Norwegian ETC team had its first meeting today and as such I wasn´t really intending to go to the club to play, but when offered to face a new challenge it´s hard to resist throwing around some dice. Thus it was that I found myself playing Wood Elves, a dreaded list with lots of counters to my Elves. As my opponent is preparing for a tournament abroad (London Calling I believe), I scaled my list up a little bit and we played no-comp (although with SLoS, a small compromise). Read on to see how this encounter played out!

.::. Battle Report - 2500 vs Wood Elves (uncomped) .::.

Lists:

Quote:
Prince on Star Dragon: General, Dragonhelm, Star Lance, Golden Crown of Atrazar, The Other Trickster`s Shard, Shield, 598 (+heavy armour +lion cloak)
Noble on Ithilmar Barded Elven Steed: Battle Standard Bearer, Banner of the World Dragon, Heavy Armour, Shield, Lance, 172 (+dragon armour)
Noble on Ithilmar Barded Elven Steed: Enchanted Shield, Heavy Armour, Ogre Blade, 134 (+dragon armour)
Mage on Elven Steed: Level 2, Lore of High Magic, Dispel Scroll, 155
Mage on Elven Steed: Level 2, Lore of High Magic, Ironcurse Icon, 135

17 Silver Helms: FCG, Shields, 421 (+1 Helm)
5 Ellyrian Reavers: Champion, Bows (Swap), 95
5 Silver Helms: Champion, Musician, Shields, 135 (-musician)

3x 1 Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower: 3x 70 (+1 ECBT)
Frostheart Phoenix: 240
2x 1 Great Eagle: 2x 50

Army Total = 2395 (+100 ish)


Quote:
Level 4 Highsinger, General, Lodestone, Dispel Scroll
Level 4 Shadowsinger, Moonstone, Power Stone
BSB, HoDA
3x Waystalkers
1x Waystalker, Bow of Loren

11 Glade Guard, Hagbane
15 Glade Guard, Trueflight
12 Glade Guard, Trueflight

5 Scouts, Trueflight

6 Wild Riders, Musician, Standard with Gleaming Pennant
6 Wild Riders, Musician, Standard with Eternal Flame

9 Waywatchers
2x 1 Great Eagle
2500 points


Pre-Battle Thoughts

With 8 drops each, getting +1 for first turn would be a big deal. I managed to grab this, but he picked a side which already had 2 woods, giving him 3 in total. This is pretty hard to push against considering he has the moonstone, but not pushing is not an option here. Thus I committed the bus in a central position with the majority of its footprint in cover from a hill. The Star Dragon and Frostheart both hid behind the same hill. He split his army in two, most of the elements in front of me. I took care to put my bus so that I would be able to walk up to an obstacle T1. This would force his characters (and waystalkers) to moonstone away to be safe, hopefully preserving my own heroes.

For spells, he got Hand, Walk, Arcane and Drain along with Miasma, Enfeebling, Withering, Pit. I grabbed hand, fiery (had to keep it to ensure better selection on the 2nd mage, otherwise I´d prefer soul quench) and apotheosis, walk for the 2nd mage.

The following pictures show the deployment and early game:

Image

Image

Image

As it were, I didn´t get first turn so he seized the initiative and blew my BSB right away with his Waystalkers. This was a big blow because it allowed his core Archers to put some pressure on my bus T1. He also reduced the bus´ M by 2, meaning I wouldn´t be able to reach the obstacle T1. I pushed up hard regardless, intent on putting some pressure on him as well. I lost 2 RBTs before I had even moved, so my ability to hurt him at a distance was mediocre. Furthermore my magic phase gave me big winds, but I had to try and stretch the dice which meant my first cast (5D6 Fiery Convocation, ~70% chance of success) failed, enabling him to contain the rest of my phase. Thus, while my T1 put some pressure on him, it failed to do much else. At the very least I panicked his Trueflight Archers on the East.

Image

Image

His characters formed a unit and moonstone´d away. The rest were caught, however. He pinned the bus down with an Eagle and killed off the Dispel Scroll mage with his remaining 2 Waystalkers (placed in the middle with his Archers there). He also barely blew away my small Helms, relieving his Scouts from some of the pressure.

In my turn the Phoenix charged the Waywalkers, needing 9+ and rolling three 1´s. They passed their terror test so I was stuck. One of my Eagles charged his Eagle in the flank, the other his Scouts in the flank. Bus reformed and moved away from his central unit. Shooting did little, magic was scrolled. Scouts broke in combat, down to a single man I restrained. The Eagle-Eagle combat kept going.

Image

He kept his characters away and I couldn´t touch his central Archers, so the rest of the game was me mopping up the corner and him sniping away as much as he could. I managed to dispel withering in a crucial turn and he cleaned up the last 2 characters, but failed to kill half the Helms.

Counting up points, he was a little over 300 ahead, an 8-12 loss for the High Elves.

// Evaluation //

After the game we discussed what High Elves can do here. While losing first turn is big, it happens frequently and can´t be counted on. With the speed and sheer amount of resilience in my army, pushing through should be feasible.

The problem in this game was that I was unable to put pressure on the center of his deployment zone, enabling him to wheel the big unit of Trueflight Archers around and pound the bus relentlessly. Basically, the Dragon could´ve zoned the Wild Riders (which I was intending for the Frostheart to do seeing as they are devastating to Helms) which would´ve left the Frostheart free to do other work. An issue with sending it to the center though is its vulnerability to Shadow: Both Pit and Withering can easily see it killed in a single turn. I´m still not decided as to whether I believe this can be done or not, but I know for sure that applying pressure on the center is crucial to gaining an upper hand in this matchup.

Waystalkers are absolutely brutal for us Elves. The only way we can really control them is by forcing them away from our important units. Sure, he´ll eventually kill off all of my heroes, but if I can force him to risk his own characters in doing so, it might just be worth it. Without all the power this list has available though, I´m not sure how they can effectively be handled by High Elves.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:30 pm 
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Is screening the bus an option Curu?

As it relies on the armour, I guess it's more vulnerable to Waystalkers than a build with more Ward saves. Also the Lifebus build looks better off here with the cheap buffs and healing.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:17 pm 
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I actually faced a kind of similar WE list recently. I was almost running the same list as yours with a few exceptions:
- Moon dragon
- 4 bolt throwers
- 2 x 10 archers
- around 14 helms in the bus

I really like those units of archers since they can help keeping the bolt throwers alive for 1-2 extra turns.

Anyway, when I played my game I was not that aggressive with the bus, but mostly used it as a bunker for the soul Quench spamming. I was playing more aggressively with the phoenix and dragon, since they really need to dedicate a lot of fire to hurt them. He was having metal instead of shadow on his second lvl. 4. Really hurts on the dragon.
He was left with his waywatchers and both casters and I with both my monsters and the bus. In all fairness, I got first turn :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:21 pm 
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@SpellArcher - Screening would've been an option, but it would cost me 2-3", thus I would not be able to reach the obstacle T1. I could've spent my Reavers, but they would just get destroyed before the Waystalkers started their sniping. If anything, I would be better off simply hiding behind the hill for T1. Not reaching the fence isn't necessarily critical, as the pressure I apply by moving there is enough to warrant his characters moving away anyway, in which case the waystalkers moonstoning out won't get to snipe me anyway.

A lifebus is very attractice in a scenario like this. I will likely experiment with such a setup when I start testing the 50% allocation rules (likely in a few weeks).

@Andros123 - Archers would not have helped my RBTs here: With Trueflight they would both have died, regardless. If I had gotten first turn, I believe this game would have been won ;) It's slightly in favour of the High Elves, with a lucky round of shadow magic possibly swinging it big for the Wood Elves. With Metal I think it's definitely in the High Elves' favour.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:51 pm 
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Do you suspect the ETC will play to the 50% percentages Curu?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:06 pm 
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Metal is still a pretty big threat to this kind of list I would say. The dragon pretty quickly melts away (mine hat one wound left :) ). However I acknowledge that shadow is of course always amazing.

I really like this list though, and I think it is very very hard to beat. The bus with the 2 nobles and 2 mages are not optimal I think. Is it really necessary to have 17 helms? The bus is not very good in combat and a few more silver helms doesn't change that IMO.

I haven't played that many games with this kind of list, so there is of course many things I have yet to take into considerations.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:23 pm 
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@SpellArcher - Yes. Take a look at this thread for example: http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic ... 8&t=126238 The overall opinions are very positive and seeing as this is an official FAQ there's no reason not to. Comp it where it's needed :)

@Andros123 - Searing Doom average 7 hits. Two thirds land on the dragon, of which two thirds wound it. That's 4/9 * 7 = 28/9 = 3.1W on average. Considering the rest of the army struggles so hard to wound it, it's not that big of a deal. Doubly so when it takes a 6d6 investment, possibly with a miscast, and I have a scroll. Searing Doom worries me a lot less than Pit of Shades.

As for the bus, it's solid, no doubt. I have a lot of games with this setup and various other setups now and have yet to see a better solution. Possibly 18 Helms would be better. What do you suggest instead?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:04 pm 
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Quote:
@Andros123 - Searing Doom average 7 hits. Two thirds land on the dragon, of which two thirds wound it. That's 4/9 * 7 = 28/9 = 3.1W on average. Considering the rest of the army struggles so hard to wound it, it's not that big of a deal. Doubly so when it takes a 6d6 investment, possibly with a miscast, and I have a scroll. Searing Doom worries me a lot less than Pit of Shades.

As for the bus, it's solid, no doubt. I have a lot of games with this setup and various other setups now and have yet to see a better solution. Possibly 18 Helms would be better. What do you suggest instead?


Searing doom and Gehenna's golden hounds can be brutal. But yes, it is hard to argue with the devastating potential of a well placed pit on the dragon.

As for the bus I just think that the return of those extra silver helms are very small. Either you could invest in more reavers or archers. Reavers with their obvious war machine hunting skills and archers to protect your 3-4 bolt throwers.
Having 20 archers, 4 bolt throwers and 3 x soul Quenches should be a very could counter for most elven lists. As for things with higher toughness you of course have the dragon + phoenix.

I have a tournament coming up, and was thinking about running something in the line of your list here. What kind of match ups, do you find the hardest to tackle with this list?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:33 pm 
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Reavers are not that great at hunting war machines and Archers just die. Having a big bus means it can take casualties without giving up maximum static combat resolution or character LoS. With 600 points worth of heroes tucked inside, I'd very much like to keep that cargo alive and kicking.

3 soul quenches is out of the question regardless seeing as I don't have the Ring of Fury (nor am I willing to ditch the Ogre Blade for it, as things are now the latter is highly valuable) and I also typically have to keep all spells on the first mage to improve the second one's chances of getting what I need (typically I want Arcane, Walk, Apotheosis).

I suggest you take a look at some of the reports to see how this list plays. They are listed on page 1, under the "Dragonlord" section of the Battle Reports index :)

Hard matchups are wm heavy armies, mostly.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:54 pm 
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Final preparations for BSK are being made as we speak. I feel like we're ready and I'm confident in our lists. All that remains now is to roll the dice and make the right decisions.

Looking ahead there are tons of tournaments coming up. First up is 2d6 Challenge in 2.5 weeks time, featuring GF comp: http://www.giantfanatic.dk/wp-content/u ... 16V14F.pdf I have decided to field a Dragon yet again, simply because I feel it is very powerful given the comp there. After that there's Sheffield Slaughter in January (I'm awaiting the final comp pack here before I decide whether to attend or not), 2d6 Conquest in January/February, Swedish Masters and 2d6 Crusade in March/April or perhaps early May, and lastly there are another 2-3 ETC-comped tournaments before ETC2015. Seems like a crazy schedule, but I can't wait to play all these events :) The bad news is that I won't be posting much from the ETC preparations and tournaments, for obvious reasons. As long as there are other events being held though I will update with what I can ;)

First of after BSK is the GF-comped Challenge, my list which will begin playtesting next week looks like this:

Quote:
Prince on Star Dragon: General, Dragonhelm, Star Lance, Golden Crown of Atrazar, The Other Trickster`s Shard, Shield, 598 (2CP)
Noble BSB on Barded Steed: Dragon Armour, Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone, Sword of Might, 170
High Mage, Level 2: Dispel Scroll, 145 (1CP)
High Mage, Level 2: 120

10 Silver Helms: Shields, FCG, 260
24 Archers, Musician, Champion, 260
5 Ellyrian Reavers: 80

8 Shadow Warriors: 112
10 Dragon Princes of Caledor: FCG, Razor Standard: 365

1 Frostheart Phoenix: 240 (2CP)
1 Great Eagle: 50

Army Total = 2400


Since the 50% allocation FAQ came out just recently, this tournament uses the old 25% allocation rules, otherwise I'd probably take a truly wacky composition (2 Star Dragons??). The comp system was not meant to deal with this though, hence the tournament committee's decision to abide by the 25% allocation rules.

The idea behind the list is to start with the mages with the Archers and have the Shadow Warriors scout ahead. T1 then the Shadow Warriors can reform to 2-wide and the mages can slingshot to gain a total of up to ~18" movement in one turn. This allows them to better keep up with the cavalry and monsters. The Archers also provide me with some degree of board control vs stuff like Warlocks, Reavers, Eagles etc, as well as being numerous enough to threaten a flank composed of for example 2 RBTs without me having to commit the monsters or cavalry to wiping such things out.

The Dragon Princes will be the BSB´s primary bunker. If they go down I have a backup unit in the shape of Silver Helms. I do believe that the former with the razor standard and the BSB will be a very hard unit to deal with under GF comp, especially considering the two massive monsters as well. The meta looks to be very Elf-heavy, with WoC and DoC being the most popular after the Elves. High Magic is as always very flexible and has lots of tools for various situations, though with a 4PD cap Fiery Convocation is a long shot.

Lastly, bear in mind that GF uses a few wacky scenarios as well (games 3 and 4 in particular are insane!): http://www.giantfanatic.dk/scenarios/ I don't think these are particularly well suited to my army, but they're far from bad either. Depending on the matchups, they can either benefit me slightly or work against me slightly. I don't expect any of them to have a huge impact (outside of the inherent impact they already have - 750VP bonus is crazy).

As always, C&C very welcome ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:20 am 
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SpellArcher wrote:
Do you suspect the ETC will play to the 50% percentages Curu?

Finland had a tournament recently where they used ETC comp + v1.9 as well n EoT if I'm not mistaken. They comped some TK/VC stuff
DE peg list with Morathi won the competition

@Curu
How can you flyers go up so far on turn 1 considering they were in the water feature? Unless that wasn't a turn 1 pic...
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:13 am 
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Flyers don't care about terrain, they fly over it. Even if they start in or land in water, they are unaffected. This was a heavily debated issue in my final game @SM this year, as my opponent marched up his Harpies to block my Helms, placing them in a lake. A judge was called and the TL;DR version was that flyers simply don't care about water, as long as they fly at least ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:41 am 
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It's interesting that Furion's choice of comp guys ended up getting elected. They are likely to comp more lightly than in the past I suspect, given the scenes they come from. It'll be interesting to see how they deal with the 50%. El Peludo at least seems to think the 5PD casting cap and 2 LoS are necessary. He did not seem to enjoy facing 6-dice Dwellers with no LoS every game at SCGT.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:19 pm 
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Curu, in your first magic phase vs. WE, why did you cast the 5-dice Fiery to open the phase?

It seems you should start the phase with highest-probability casts and end it with risky ones, to maximize your average number of successful casts. Especially when considering the likelihood of IF on 5 dice.

What was your plan for the rest of the phase if you landed Fiery? How many dice did you have remaining?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:50 pm 
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@SpellArcher - I hope the comp will be reduced, overall. Last year was too much and too paranoia-driven. I also personally feel that a lot of it simply made builds more streamlines, highlighting weaknesses even further because a faction could often only make 1 viable build. The AR.com has already posted its first thoughts on where they want to take the comp, take a look here: http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic ... 8&t=126329 Dwellers without LoS is madness, but with 50% Lords almost every faction can work around it - to some extent. The fact remains though, as El Peludo highlights, that it is a ridiculously strong counter to L4s. I don't know the English scene too well, but I'd bet you see a lot of armies win tournaments that aren't vulnerable to Dwellers in the same way e.g. High Elves with Teclis or an L4 is.

@Nicene - I believe the split was 10v6 or 10v7. The idea was to start with Fiery to force him to dispel, following up with 3D6 Walk on a monster to disconnect him from the woods (or force out the scroll) and finish up with 2D6 Apotheosis on the wounded mage. Letting Fiery through is of course an option, given his MR3 it's not deadly immediately, but he risks giving up a LOT in his next magic phase. Worst case, he'll just lose the unit. I could've gone 6+3+1 or 6+4, but playing from behind like I was you need to try and squeeze your phases a bit more, at least that's my philosophy. By starting with 3D6 Walk, the safest cast, he can simply dispel it and possibly spend few dice if I roll low. Walk is what I want through, as it basically blocks his unit from moonstoning. Magical strategy has a lot of factors to consider. In the end, one can always question whether the road not taken would have been the superior one. The point in going for a higher risk magic phase however is to really force your opponents to make some tough calls if you get your casts through. I needed to either get a devastating spell through or draw his scroll to have any chance of contesting the magic phase in future turns at this point, hence I opted for the multiple casts.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:49 pm 
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Yeah, as Baleanoon said, people adapt, most armies can re-build to mitigate 6-dice Dwellers. I played under 1 Look out Sir in July and I think there's something to be said for that.

I saw your post on TWF Curu and it looks like the comp team is really going for it and will face substantial opposition. But some kind of workable compromise will get agreed by the captains I expect. I guess the thing is that a lot of different changes are being considered at once which may be hard to balance together. 50% Lords looks the most likely to get through.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:15 pm 
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It will be interesting to see what the comp pack ends up looking like. One of the biggest reasons I'm a fan of the 50% Lords and 50% Heroes is that it allows armies to better build around extreme weaknesses such as Dwellers. Personally I only think there's one such spell in the game and that is just it. LoS for 1 or 2 make a huge difference here. I do think Shadow needs to be buffed again though, basically just let HE take it with BoH and allow anyone to 5-dice Mindrazor. With 50% Lords and 50% Heroes, I don't think there's a single faction in the game who can't make a build that can somehow counter Shadow, whereas Mindrazor actually being around helps threaten some of the currently over-used elements in the game: Even the HE Deathtrain needs to be very careful with that spell around.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:17 pm 
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In other news our BSK preparations are coming to an end. The last games are being played, team clothing has arrived and captain rusty is printing out our booklets, complete with faction icon, FAQs, terrain rules, enemy army lists and more:

Image

This is going to be a blast :D

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:13 am 
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I drew up a list with some interesting efficiencies in it compared to the one I'm taking to a tournament soon. Problem was, there was little that stood out to spend the spare 200pts on. Cue 50% Lords...

Agree on Dwellers. FT is good but it doesn't carry the same threat to characters. It'd be very interesting to see the impact of 5-dice Mindrazor on the ETC.

I'm greenly envious re BSK. A team tournament in Cardiff has just been posted up on TWF and it's already full. Shows the interest. The Sheffield Slaughter pack is up now . A 600 VP swing for Fortitude in every game caught my eye.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:32 am 
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SA, if you're interested we're in all likelyhood arranging a similar team tournament here in Oslo, June next year. I can reserve some spots if you are interested in taking the trip over, it's fairly cheap travelling Norway-England and vice versa (though living here is expensive I can arrange sleepovers for a team). It looks to be a 3-man thing for our event, so all you need is to grab Seredain and +1 and you're good to go :D

Great news, I will be attending Sheffield Slaughter!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:19 pm 
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Curu Olannon wrote:
SA, if you're interested we're in all likelyhood arranging a similar team tournament here in Oslo, June next year. I can reserve some spots if you are interested in taking the trip over, it's fairly cheap travelling Norway-England and vice versa (though living here is expensive I can arrange sleepovers for a team). It looks to be a 3-man thing for our event, so all you need is to grab Seredain and +1 and you're good to go :D

Great news, I will be attending Sheffield Slaughter!


Nice on, myself and 4 or 5 guys from ireland should be there too.

I hope there is going to be a little bit of legion of chaos comp though! Or reduced to 2200 points at least!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:50 pm 
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I'm not so worried about Legions of Chaos to be honest. I am more worried about Karl Franz. Even if I can make a list that has somewhat of an answer to him, how do I do this while maintaining an all-comers capable list?

Looking forward to seeing you there :)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:42 pm 
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Curu Olannon wrote:
I am more worried about Karl Franz.



Agreed, this guy is utterly terrifying!

I have been lurking for a while, Curu, and am new to High Elves and wanted to thank you for the time this army blog must take you. I am finding it to be a very helpful resource and it is speeding up my learning curve a great deal.

Re: StarDragon and CavBus lists (which I am also running at the moment with the new 50% lords and heroes allowance.) I am currently running High magic which I find to be the ultimate utility lore but I am having to admit that it may not cut it against some no comp lists following the new FAQ. I see that you are championing Life magic. With the exception of an 18" move followed by Dwellers; I am not so sold on the Lore and was interested to hear what you think its strengths are in the SD list.

I have, however, been sorely tempted by Shadow and think it may be even more viable now that we are seeing combined profile beasts such as Nagash and Karl Franz. I think that, as well as the rest, -D3 Toughness makes our supporting RBT's better at both its jobs and Mindrazor can really help bring down those big griblies.

Anyhow, thanks again.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:03 pm 
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Hello TheValheru, thanks for checking in :)

High Magic is most definitely a sound choice for the Cav + Dragon list. In fact, it is so versatile that I might have to reverse my current choice for Life. Basically, Life is good because of how powerful Lifebloom + Flesh to Stone is on the Dragon, coupled with how devastating Dwellers is to deathstars. Lastly, being able to default to Earthblood is really nice for the bus.

High Magic on the other hand always has something useful at hand. Be it Arcane or Walk, the lore is full of utility spells. Like Earthblood, Shield of Saphery is great for the cavbus. With that said, Apotheosis is no-where near Lifebloom + Flesh to Stone for the Dragon's durability.

Shadow I would not rate that highly in such an aggressive build. Arcane Unforging is better vs Karl Franz and similarly stupid SCs. Shadow augments armies based on quantity over quality, something this list is not. To properly benefit from it, I think you need a more defensively oriented build.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:50 pm 
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Pairings game 1 for BSK are up! We drew the reigning champions for the past 2 years with the following lists:

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High elves- Dennis Palmkvist (2bsk guld)

1 Archmage General; Level 4; Lore of Metal Book of Hoeth Khaine's Ring of Fury
1 Archmage Level 4; Lore of Shadow Power Scroll Ironcurse Icon
1 Mage Level 1; Lore of Shadow Dispel Scroll
1 Noble 2ndWeapon; Heavy Armour; Battle Standard Reaver Bow Potion of Strength

41 Archers Full command @ 440.0 Pts
5 Ellyrian Reavers @ 80.0 Pts
5 Ellyrian Reavers @ 80.0 Pts

28 White Lions of Chrace Full command Banner of the World Dragon

4*1 Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower @ 70.0 Pts
5 Sisters of Averlorn @ 70.0 Pts
10 Sisters of Averlorn @ 140.0 Pts
2400

Orks and goblins- Marcus Engblom (2bsk guld)

Black ork Warboss: Dragonhelm,Talisman of Preservation, Crown of Command 250
Savage ork Great Shaman LV4: Lucky Shrunken Head, Fencers Blades 290
Savage ork Big Boss BSB: GW, Morks Spirit Totem 204
Savage ork Shaman LV1: Dispell Scroll 95
Goblin Big Boss: Wolf, Light Armour, Charmed
Shield, Shrieking Blade, Dragonbanegem 69

21 Night Goblins 2 Fanatics, Shortbows 113
20 Night Goblins 2 Fanatics, Shortbows 110
34 Savage ork Big Unz, Second Choppa, FC 409

9 Troll 315
9 Troll 315

Rock Lobba 85
Rock Lobba 85
Doom Diver 80
Doom Diver 80
2500

Empire- Erik Aronsson (1bsk guld)

Grand master, runefang, charmed shield, potion of speed, dragonbane gem: 255
Battle wizard lord, lvl4, light, scroll of shielding, obsidian amulet, crown of command, warhorse: 298
Captain, BSB, fullplate armour, warhorse, shield, sword of might, luckstone, the other trickster's shard, dragonhelm: 155
battle wizard, lvl1, light, dispel scroll, ironcurse icon, warhorse: 107

14 Inner circle knights, FCG, standard of discipline: 395
5 Empire knights: 110
5 Empire knights: 110

5 Demigryphs, mus: 300
5 Demigryphs, mus: 300
1 Great cannon: 120

1 Steam tank: 250
2400

Dark elves- Anders Gustavsson (1bsk guld)

1 Dreadlord on Dark Pegasus; Light Armour; Sea Dragon Cloak, Giant Blade, Enchanted Shield, Dawn Stone, Potion of Foolhardiness 293 pts
1 Dreadlord on Dark Pegasus; Heavy Armour; Sea Dragon Cloak; Shield, Ogre Blade, Talisman of Preservation, The Other Tricksters Shard 307 pts
1 Master on Dark Pegasus; Lance; Heavy Armour; Sea Dragon Cloak; Shield; Battle Standard, Cloak of Twilight 213 pts
1 Sorceress; Magic Level 2; Lore of Death, Ring of Hotek 165 pts
1 Sorceress; Magic Level 2; Lore of Death, Dispel Scroll 140 pts

5 Dark Riders; Spear; Rptr Crossbow; Light Armour; Shield 100 pts
5 Dark Riders; Spear; Rptr Crossbow; Light Armour; Shield 100 pts
5 Dark Riders; Spear; Light Armour; Shield 85 pts
23 Darkshards; Rptr Crossbow; Light Armour; Standard; Musician, Banner of the Eternal Flame,
Guardmaster 316 pts

5 Harpies; 75 pts
5 Harpies; 75 pts
4*1 Reaper Bolt Thrower; 70 pts

5 Doomfire Warlocks; 125 pts
5 Doomfire Warlocks; 125 pts
2399


We have a plan, wish us luck. First game is tomorrow evening ;)

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