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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:37 pm 
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@John Rainbow - Seeing as I`m starting out with Timewarp I obviously agree with your assessment. However, although the tournaments here in Norway usually feature quite a few skilled players, they are typically small in terms of number of players and furthermore, I know what pretty much all the good ones will be bringing. This makes it possible to set up a matrix and see where Net grants more value than Timewarp. I could be wrong, but it`s worth looking at ;)

Chaff heavy list - I have considered it, yet. The problem I see is that uncomped the Lions simply won`t be big enough to be able to handle other units. At their current size, there is hardly a unit in the game I can`t face. The few ones that do beat the Lions are very weak against either my magic, shooting or both (examples include PG-stars, WE-stars and huge gutstars).

@Browncastle - Please report back with your findings on the Star Dragon :) I think it`s loads of fun to play and I`m amazed that there are not more people taking it, especially when pretty much every tournament in Norway is running SLoS.

High Magic on Teclis? I considered it for maybe 30 seconds. It is a strong lore in general, but uncomped it falls through to the sheer power of picking 8 powerful spells. Examples of lists I think I`ll struggle against without picking 8 spells from the BRB lores: HE (how do I handle Teclis? Bus?), LZ (how do I threaten the Slann?), DE (how do I deal with Witchelves?), WoC (what do I do vs the Daemon Prince?), DW/CD (no comet, no sun, hardly any real threats apart from WBW which is basically a trade for Timewarp), OnG (I can`t grind with high vs them and WMs hurt and without Comet/Sun I can`t pressure them) and Skaven (Bell is a huge issue). I believe that High Magic needs mobility to work. This list has very little. Furthermore I believe High Magic needs a unit to benefit a lot from Shield of Saphery. These Lions benefit more from the aggressive nature of Blades of Aiban and Sword of Rhuin.

High Magic is usually my choice for a bus-list, for said reasons above. Life is also good, but less flexible I find. I think High Magic shines when you have 2 threats, one of which is mobile (hence why I`m trying to make PG + bus work).

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:29 pm 
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Game today was unfortunately cancelled. I`m hoping for one tomorrow instead ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:06 pm 
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Another game with Teclis, again vs HE. This time however it was a different list: Monster-mash! Also, the NM FAQ guys have decided Teclis can choose spells before every game instead of writing them on the roster (!).

.::. Battle Report - 2000 vs High Elves (uncomped) .::.

My list:
Quote:
Teclis (Flaming Sword of Rhuin, Searing Doom, Savage Beast of Horros, Thunderbolt, Mindrazor, Dwellers Below, Birona`s Timewarp, Purple Sun) - 450
Sea Helm BSB, Reaver Bow, Shield of the Merwyrm, Ironcurse Icon - 170
Shadow Mage, Forbidden Rod - 120

30 Archers, FC = 330
5 Reavers, Bows = 85
5 Reavers, Bows = 85
Core = 500

36 White Lions, Full Command, Banner of the World Dragon = 548

3 Repeater Bolt Throwers = 210

Army Total = 1998


His list:
Quote:
Anointed on Flamespyre, Giant Blade, Enchanted Shield
BSB on ASF Griffon, Crown of Atrazar, Ring of Fury, Charmed Shield
L2 on horsie, scroll, dragonbane gem

12 SH, FC, Shields
2x5 Reavers, Champ, Bows

2 Frosthearts


A very fast and hard-hitting list. This time I tried a completely different deployment, basically to see how the list plays with various positions and in different situations. I think I have a pretty good grasp of how to do things after these 2 games.

Anyway, onto the match. He rolled Arcane Unforging and Walk Between Worlds, pretty much the 2 best spells he could ask for in this matchup. The following pictures show deployment and the early turns:

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He grabs the initiative and moves up hard. My T1 sees Flaming Sword go through on the Archers which proceed to hurt a Phoenix a lot and the rest of my shooting kills it. With Flaming Sword up and Lions ready to counter-charge he flanks me instead. Again my shooting is impeccable as his Anointed goes down, the Flamespyre loses 2W and the 2nd Frostheart dies (it had taken 2W already). Magic augmented this as well if memory serves and I believe I drew his scroll. He drew mine T1 but I failed to destroy arcane.

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His monsters take out 2 RBTs and overrun off the table. I move my units so that I can block the Phoenix when it gets back on the table. He moves back on and things get interesting: The plan was originally to just tie up the Phoenix with the Archers and their steadfast but I realize that with his scroll out and me having Mindrazor, there`s a more effective solution (the bird had 2W left).

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I cast Mindrazor with IF and Teclis jumps into the hole. The bird goes down however and I overrun into BSB. Disaster strikes as he immediately rolls a `6` for the bird which comes back up with 3W. His Helms flank-charge the Archers (I had previously tried to nail the mage which was on 1W with 3 flanking reavers but I failed to kill him) and break them: I failed my fear test so I was unable to do much damage despite of Mindrazor still being up.

The Flamespyre eats the last RBT. His cavalry fails a swift reform and are stuck. I force him to flee in T6, giving me half points. This saves me a 9-11 at least, a small loss.

// Evaluation //

This game I deliberately went for an aggressive and opportunistic deployment which did not pay off. I was lucky early game with my shooting being so effective, so it`s hard to see the mistake: The Archers need support. They need an edge on one side and the Lions need to constantly threaten the Archers` front so that nothing can land and threaten them. The Reavers need to be nearby in stand-by mode with the RBTs spread out.

Teclis going down the drain was because he IF Unforged my Staff at one point. True, it was unlucky to roll the 2-4 and then the 1-3 needed for this to happen, but again my early game was lucky so it kind of weighs up. The game was lost because I allowed him too much space and too much pressure on the Archers.

The learning curve for this list is steep, but I`m getting there and I hope I`ll be ready in time for NM, which is in just a few weeks ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:25 pm 
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Image

This diagram shows what I believe to be the best deployment for Teclis. This is of course dependent on terrain, but the general concept is the same. You can slide this formation to pretty much any part of the board as long as the Archers` flank is protected. See the first game for example, my opponent had a similar position in the middle of the table because he knew I couldn`t outflank.

The exact position of the Lions depends on what your opponent can do. It is very important that they cover the Archers though. The RBTs may seem exposed, but going for them is a big risk as it takes a lot of time.

The Reavers might seem a bit off, but remember that they are usually deployed fairly early on. They are usually flexible enough for this not to matter though, luckily.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:03 pm 
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I calculated the scores again when i got home, it's an 11-9 win for me. Still, it doesn't make much difference.

My main strategy in this match up was keeping pretty much everything safe from your lions and taking out your shooting with as few losses as possible in return, and then looking at the possibilities for a T6 combined charge. Your T1 was devastating for me. I lost a Phoenix, an entire reaver unit poised to take out an RBT next round, and you took a few wounds of the remaining FHP as well. I suddenly went from a strong flank with good chances of wiping your entire archer unit in a single round of combat to just trying to save points.

The Flamespyre rising immediatelly after getting killed off was beyond lucky, a bad roll of the dice there and you would have been looking at a probable 14-6/15-5 win. It's hard to see what i could have done differently here. Engaging your lions while the Banner is still up is suicide, as i only have the Griffon and BSB (and SH if i commit them) without magical attacks, and you'll tear me to shreds in return. A combo charge with all 4 monsters and SH i think will kill enough Lions for me to win here, but with so much shooting it's impossible for me to accomplish without an insane amount of luck.

I did a few mistakes, (Not moving the BSB onto the table before rolling for Swift reform T6 being one of them, that probably caused me about 250 VP's) but none so big that they were match-breaking, so overall i'm pretty pleased with how the match turned out. Wake of fire was definatelly "move of the match" killing archers in droves. I'm semi confident that if i had gotten a few turns more flying over your lions i could have gotten them down to a more manageable size, though without a Frostheart to lower their strength and making my monsters strike before you, engaging them is super-iffy at best. WoF is much more usefull than what i expected when i wrote the list, i'm liking the flamespyre more and more with each usage.

Anyways, that's my thoughts. GG Curu!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:39 pm 
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Score corrected. Was it the banner bonus that tipped it?

The Archers were in dire straits indeed. The shooting this list packs is deceptively strong though. When targeting something like a Frostheart, volume matters more than quality and 30 Archers, magic, Reaver Bow + RBTs have quite a bit of volume. The main mistake here was probably not chucking all DD at Flaming Sword of Rhuin.

Part of the reason I deployed so aggressively was that I had +1 for T1. With the initiative seized here, I would be in a much better position as I was in range of a Frostheart with all the Archers T1 and all RBTs had clear lines of fire.

As for Teclis and the Flamespyre - it`s Warhammer ;) Things happen and you have to deal with it. I was lucky the Anointed was dead in the first place. Speaking of the Flamespyre, it is terrifying against Elves. As I mentioned briefly today I have a concept list lying around that I want to try, largely due to the popularity of the Elves these days. I`ll post it up in a second ;) In this game however I think your Flamespyre should have been deployed opposite my Lions. This forces me to abandon the usual 3-wide formation I love so much: If I keep this you get a ridiculous D6 + 11D3 (!!) S4 hits against which I only have a 6+ armour save. By going wide to mitigate this though my mobility is reduced a lot.

Lastly, Frostheart into Lions makes no difference. They are still I5 as you can`t stack ASL. Even all 4 monsters combined into Lions is tough: With Naval Discipline I`m looking at ~40 attacks before you strike back. Even if you win, I`m stubborn. The Lions are a huge issue for your army, I just failed to make their presence felt (see my last post on what I consider optimal deployment to me: this position is a lot harder for you to attack).

GG, thanks for the input here as well ;) Defensive High Elves is not my style of play (ironically enough I find it a lot easier with CD) but I`m learning as I go along.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:50 pm 
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Concept list - Fighting the Meta

Elves are becoming increasingly popular. HE and DE can build solid lists and the latter can go MSU as well. WE almost always go MSU, same for LZ. These lists are all inherently weak to mobility and damage. In particular, I believe the go-to choices (White Lions, Darkshards/Witchelves, Glade Guard / Waywalkers, Skinks) are weak to the cheap damage we have easily available: Soul Quench and Wake of Fire. Based on this, I believe the following list would be interesting to play and it`s definitely worth testing:

Quote:
Anointed on Flamespyre, Giant Blade, Dawnstone, Enchanted Shield, Potion of Foolhardiness = 530

BSB, standard kit = 172
Noble, barded steed, heavy armour, ogre blade, dragonhelm, shield = 141
High Mage L2, Scroll, Steed = 155
High Mage L2, Steed = 130
Heroes = 598

15 Silver Helms, Full Command, Shields = 375
15 Silver Helms, Full Command, Shields = 375
Core = 750

Eagle = 50
Frostheart = 240
Flamespyre = 225
Rare = 515

Army Total = 2393


6 drops is quite few and the mobility of this army is insane. The reasoning behind the dualhelms is two-fold: First, there`s always a bunker to run to! Secondly, there are no easy points to get here (sole exception being the Eagle).

I anticipate this build to have some terrible matchups as well. Skaven stand out, obviously, as do Bretonnia with the Falcon Horn (basically close to impossible to play against with this list if you face a strong opponent). I do however rarely see Skaven and Bretonnia (although 3/5 of my games at Invasion were against these, they are not that common) whereas Elves are plentiful. I think this army is more powerful than it looks to be on paper as well, with its sheer speed and built-in endurance it can really pack a punch if the birds cannot zap enemies to death through wake of fire.

Thoughts? ;)

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:16 am 
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Teclis being able to pick his spells between games pushes him over broken edge as far as I'm concerned. He let's you tailor your magic based on the opponent so you are never at a disadvantage. Up against elves? You are no longer stuck with purple sun. Up against woc? Swap dwellers for +2T.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:46 pm 
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Yes, i don't remember the excact scores, but the banner put me a few points over the 150 mark. Also, correct me if i'm wrong, but doesnt it say something like "each rank of five or more" in the wake of fire special rule?

I dont have the book with me now, but methinks i read something like that when i wrote the list.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:24 pm 
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@Sackree - I agree, but the rules are the rules and there`s not a lot I can do about it. Besides, in this case it`s in my favour ^^

@hansleonard - Makes sense. The beauty of wake of fire is that it does not specify ranks of 5 or more, so it will absolutely decimate congalines and other shenanigans such as 3-wide White Lions. I always thought it was 5 or more as well until a club member pointed out that every rank counts, regardless of # of models. You would do well to keep this in mind @NM seeing as you`re taking the bird there ;)

In other news I bought my very first place to live today! Looking forward to moving into my own place instead of renting (which is basically money out the window) ;)

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:55 pm 
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I will definatelly keep that in mind!
This means that an allready very strong ability got even better. And congratulations!

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:57 pm 
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Yes. It`s a way bigger deal than it seems like - especially coupled with the fact that it works with Walk Between Worlds as well. VC scream-lists will cry tears of nerd-rage ;) Thanks :)

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:26 pm 
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best use it to your advantage whilst you can then haha!

Knowing that you can pick your spells based on your opponents list I'm curious to know what spell selection is for the common threats and army lists you expect to encounter.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 12:12 pm 
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Hey just had a game vs vampires using the stardragon, I actually used the etc list you posted a week ago or something with 4 bolthrowers. I went 10 - 10. But I had the game in my pocket, Until I comitted the bus. Lost the bus to graveguards:/ Stardragon alone took out 35 skeletons, summoned zombies, corpscart, screaming chariot(turn 4) damaged every unit in his army, and finished of remains of 30 graveguards. Im liking this monster more and more:P Had my bus just stayed clear of combat, until turn 5 - 6 I would probly go 15 - 5 or better.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:14 pm 
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@Sackree - Good point, I need to consider this and come up with a template (or two).

@Browncastle - Good to know you enjoy the big bird ;) The important thing to remember is that the bus is not designed to fight. It is designed to preserve points and provide multiple threats: Solid Magic, lots of CR, BOTWD protection and stubborn for the dragon. On its own, there`s fairly little it can do seeing as it`s all S3 and some S4 apart from when you are charging. Basically you have enough hero points @2400 to either go Ogre Blade or Crown of Command. Both have their virtues, but the fundamental role of the bus does not change regardless of your choice.

Hoping for another Teclis game tomorrow ;)

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:40 pm 
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Does ETC rule FOR thunderstorms as magical attacks?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:40 am 
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No. Does anyone rule it this way?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:52 pm 
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Third game with Teclis and my first game against something else than High Elves ;) I was facing TK which have a 300 point boost for this tournament.


.::. Battle Report - 2000 vs Tomb Kings (uncomped) .::.

My list:
Quote:
Teclis (Flaming Sword of Rhuin, Searing Doom, Savage Beast of Horros, Thunderbolt, Mindrazor, Dwellers Below, Birona`s Timewarp, Purple Sun) - 450
Sea Helm BSB, Reaver Bow, Shield of the Merwyrm, Ironcurse Icon - 170
Shadow Mage, Forbidden Rod - 120

30 Archers, FC = 330
5 Reavers, Bows = 85
5 Reavers, Bows = 85
Core = 500

36 White Lions, Full Command, Banner of the World Dragon = 548

3 Repeater Bolt Throwers = 210

Army Total = 1998


His list:
Quote:
Khalida = 365
lvl4 Nehek = 210

Ramhotep = 110
lvl1 death, scroll = 95
lvl1 death, Power Stone = 90

56 Archers, Champ, musi = 356
10 Archers = 60
5 Horse Archers = 70
5 Horse Archers = 70
5 Horse Archers = 70

7 Necro Knights: FC = 485

Casket = 135
Skullhapult = 90
Skullhapult = 90

==2296==


An incredible amount of shooting. I did some math and figured that not even the Lions can reliably push unless the shoot-star is countered: Roughly a handful die, I estimated (I later found out that the average is slightly more than 6 WL, yikes!). For spells, I chose Flaming Sword of Rhuin, Blades of Aiban, Comet, Sun, Dwellers, Enfeebling, Timewarp and Savage Beast. He rolled ward save, shooting, movement, dangerous terrain and double spirit leech.

The idea here was to get to his bunker. Necroknights this big are slow and unreliable so countering them is trivial. I also wanted to snipe the Casket with RBTs. Failing this, I was unsure whether it would be best to target Necroknights or put another couple of wounds on the bunker. I think the best choice depends on the situation and that often, shooting Archers is the best course of action. Having only 5 drops, he had +1 to go first so I deployed defensively.

Image

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He went first but due to cumbersome units, he was unable to bring the shootstar to bear on my units T1. Deploying them with maximum width to allow everyone to shoot requires over 20", which is quite unwieldy I can tell you. For my T1 I was cautious and took care to place my Archers so that he`d need to magically walk to engage me. Reavers charged Horse Archers on the West, hoping to overrun. I rolled poorly and got stuck, however.

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T2 sees him move up but I spend my super-scroll to deny him moving his army and shoot my Archers. I fail to destroy the spell. For my T2 I roll 3+3 for magic and declare the Rod. I roll 2 wounds for the D3 and snake eyes from the Banner, losing the L1 Shadow mage. I get 4 dice. Teclis casts Enfeebling on 4D6. I reduce his S by 1 but get IF as well, I use the staff to ignore it as I at least need to draw his scroll now. I then proceed to IF Dwellers on 6D6 as well, which kills a huge number of the now-S2 Archers, along with ALL(!) characters apart from Khalida. True to form, Teclis goes down the drain and thus both sides are left without wizards. On the West his horse archers beat (!) my reavers and run them down.

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The Lions should be strong enough to deal with the Necroknights but ironically enough I want him to charge as Naval Discipline can be crucial here. He realizes the threat and keeps backing off. We have a mexican standoff where neither player wants to charge. Khalida tries to hide and I initially put 2W on her before I finish her off with RBTs.

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The mexican standoff changes somewhat when I reform my Lions wide in my T5. Since he went first, he could charge the Lions now and avoid the Reavers in his rear, or he could let me charge him and hope that I wouldn`t generate enough combat resolution to kill him in one phase. He decided to reform 7-wide.

In my T6 I manage to kill off the Casket with RBTs, its explosion deals a critical 5W or so to the Necroknights. This helps my Lions + Reavers generate enough combat resolution to kill him off, but he got my Sea Helm in the process.

Nevertheless, it is a great win for the High Elves and with the SC bonuses (NM uses +200VP per special character killed), it is a 20-0 victory! (the last game should thus have been 8-12).

// Evaluation //

Khalidastar is nasty, but unwieldy. I made some mistakes in terms of spells. Flaming Sword is inferior to Flame Cage here and Comet is inferior to Curse of the Midnight Wind. Lastly I believe Final Transmutation allows me to better force his hand with its 36" range, though I am not 100% sure 6-dicing is the way to go apart from Dwellers.

What cost my opponent the game was his inability to pressure me early game with his superior shooting. A big part of this was deployment blocking himself in and some bad luck with the catapults (1 died to misfire T1, the other scattered off all turns of the game I think). I at least got to see how the Khalidastar plays and I have a few ideas if I meet it again. Very refreshing and interesting matchup considering the last 2 games have been vs High Elves. I`m hoping for a couple of more games before NM. I find this list challenging to play but it`s no-where near as strong as I´d have thought beforehand. The list has been sent in however so all I can do now is practice and hope Teclis can carry the day without going down the drain every time I roll boxcars ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:12 am 
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.::. Teclis - Spell Selection Analysis .::.

With NM ruling Teclis being able to pick spells before every game, I think it`s worth spending some time to evaluate certain usual suspects and how best to counter them. The lists have not been published yet (I expect they will in a few days) but I know what some of them will look like.

Basically we have shooty-magic TK, 1+ spam Empire with Life, Beasts of Nurgle-spam DoC, HE flying circus, HE Teclis, Skaven with Bell, some vanilla VC and WoC variants and nasty Ogres. There are some unknown variables here, but I`ll deal with those later. Let`s consider the ones above.

Shooty Magic TK
With fresh experience against this army, I think the following selection is strong:
- Flame Cage
- Purple Sun
- Final Transmutation / Blades of Aiban (depending on # of characters)
- Dwellers Below
- Enfeebling Foe
- Curse of the Midnight Wind / Comet of Casandora (depending on whether Khalida is taken and whether the units are big or many)
- Net of Amyntok. ETC FAQ is in play so a wizard test`s on his own S. If Arkhan is present, Timewarp is a superior spell.
- Wyssan`s Wildform / Amber Spear (depending on necroknights vs sphinxes)

A flexible selection with many medium-hard-to-cast spells and some true killers.

1+ Empire with Life
These lists are very one-dimensional and suffer heavily from Teclis` selection.
- Searing Doom
- Enfeebling Foe
- Dwellers Below
- Savage Beast (to protect vs Dwellers, swap for Amber Spear if Life is not present)
- Iceshard Blizzard
- Flaming Sword of Rhuin
- Purple Sun (remember that I have L1 Shadow for Miasma)
- Net of Amyntok

A few easy to cast spells and some great counters. This list has a huge advantage in a Dwellers-war.

Beasts of Nurgle DoC
I`ve seen lists with 18 beasts at 2000 points. Luckily, my list is one of the best to counter these with the huge unit of Lions basically being one of the best counters in the game.
- Purple Sun
- Timewarp
- Dwellers (if they have metal Heralds as backup this is crucial to prevent multiple turns of tanking final transmutation)
- Enchanted Blades of Aiban
- Flaming Sword of Rhuin
- Enfeebling Foe
- Wyssan`s Wildform
- Harmonic Convergence

Many easy to cast spells and Purple Sun + Timewarp just wrecks this matchup.

HE flying circus
I played such a list recently, and while hard to deal with, it`s not impossible.
- Flaming Sword of Rhuin
- Mindrazor
- Enchanted Blades of Aiban
- Thunderbolt
- Purple Sun
- Throne of Vines (can be swapped for Dwellers if the bus is a priority target, depends on configuration. Miscast protection here is ace)
- Amber Spear
- Timewarp

A quite unusual selection. The Archers need to provide a threat early here and I need multiple spells that are so critical for him to stop that the scroll is almost always gone before combat starts. Blades of Aiban and Flaming Sword make the Archers fearsome for the birds and Amber Spear is alone very hard to let through. Purple sun is a great deterrent as well and Mindrazor + Timewarp provides amazing counter-attack value.

HE Teclis
Assuming a similar list to my own, this matchup is all about establishing superior ranged power and winning the Dwellers war.
- Enfeebling Foe
- Dwellers Below
- Savage Beast of Horros
- Timewarp
- Harmonic Convergence
- Fireball
- Enchanted Blades of Aiban
- Soulblight (one could argue D&D as well)

Fireball makes an entry here as it puts a lot of pressure on RBTs and is great at downing a few Archers as well.

Skaven with Bell
This list is a deathstar with many supporting tools that hurt us badly. Archers and RBTs can not be expected to do a whole lot at a distance, but the former can be quite effective for combat in this matchup, given the right augments.
- Enfeebling Foe
- Dwellers Below
- Flaming Sword of Rhuin
- Wyssan`s Wildform (Amber Spear if multiple Doomwheels/HPAs)
- Soulblight
- Timewarp
- Blades of Aiban
- Harmonic Convergence

Lots of combat boosting spells and a few killers to force his deathstar.

Vanilla Vampires
They either go Hexwraith-spam or hard-as-nails push. I don`t expect gravestars and I don`t expect cavstars.
- Pit of Shades
- Throne of Vines
- Flaming Sword of Rhuin
- Banishment
- Blades of Aiban (gives 3 spells that all enable me to deal with Ethereals)
- Purple Sun
- Harmonic Convergence / Thunderbolt (depending on # of Hexwraiths)
- Wyssan`s Wildform / Transformation of Kadon (depending on how tough the lord is and if I need a panic button)

Very unusual selection but this is all about applying tons of pressure at range and having multiple combat buffs. Purple Sun is a killer. Throne of Vines for miscast protection.

Vanilla WoC
Lots of armour and speed. Lord on disc is a surprisingly hard counter to my list that I don`t have a lot of answers to.
- Mindrazor (a.k.a Panic Button #1)
- Transformation of Kadon (a.k.a Panic Button #2) / Amber Spear (if a DP is chosen over a Lord)
- Flaming Sword of Rhuin
- Timewarp
- Throne of Vines
- Searing Doom
- Spirit Leech
- Thunderbolt

The spell selection plugs down a lot of holes. The sheer speed is still a problem, but with the selection above there`s a ton of threats at a distance.

Ogre Kingdoms
Hellheart is an issue. Staff helps here, but the L1 could still suffer a miscast. Poisoned Maneaters is absolutely disastrous if he has sniper. Anything else is ok, but not good.
- Purple Sun
- Throne of Vines
- Blades of Aiban
- Flaming Sword of Rhuin
- Harmonic Convergence
- Wyssan`s Wildform
- Pha`s Protection
- Mindrazor

Fighting Ogres is all about dealing with the gutstar without targeting it. Thus, augments become a lot better than hexes. A gap in this list is my inability to hurt his mournfang and ironblasters significantly at a distance. I don`t think it`s worth giving up anything here to try and mitigate this though.

More analysis to follow when the lists are posted ;)

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:24 pm 
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Vindicated Strategist
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Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
NM lists are out:

Beastmen: 2
Bretonnia: 1
Chaos Dwarfs: 1
Daemons of Chaos: 2
Dark Elves: 6
Dwarfs: 1
Empire: 9
High Elves: 5
Lizardmen: 5
Ogre Kingdoms: 3
Orcs and Goblins: 4
Skaven: 2
Tomb Kings: 3
Vampire Counts: 3
Warriors of Chaos: 5
Wood Elves: 5

Beastmen wrote:
Beastlord, general, shield, gnarled hide, armour of fortune, dawnstone, sword of striking, 228
Doombull, ramhorn helm, sword of swift slaying, armour of destiny, enchanted shield, 330
Bray Shaman, level 2, lore of beast, dispell scroll, 135
Bray Shaman, level 2, lore of shadow, 110
Wargor, BSB, heavy armour, shield, the beast banner 191
47 Gor herd, FCG, additional hand weapon, 401
5 ungor raiders, 30
5 warhounds, 30
1 tuskgor chariot, 80
1 tuskgor chariot, 80
17 Bestigor herd, FCG, 234
7 Minotaurs, fcg blod-kine har gold sigil sword, 450
Total: 2299

Beastlord, general, heavy armour, shield, sword of might, ramhorn helm, dawnstone, ironcurse icon, gnarled hide, 234
Doombull, heavy armour, sword of striking, charmed shield, talisman of preservation, 322
Wargor, bsb heavy armour, shield, the beast banner, 191
Bray-Shaman, lvl 2, death, extra handweapon, dispel scroll, 137
Bray-Shaman, lvl 2, shadow,, extra handweapon, power stone, 132
38 Gor herd, fcg, extra hand weapon, 329
10 Gor herd, musician, 75
5 Ungor Raiders, 30
5 Ungor Raiders, 30
38 Ungor Herd, musician, standard bearer, shields, 199
19 Bestigor Herd, musician, standard bearer, banner of discipline, 261
1 Razorgor Herd, 55
1 Razorgor Herd, 55
1 Razorgor Herd, 55
5 Harpies, scout, 70
5 Harpies, scout, 70
5 Harpies, 55
Tot.: 2300


Bretonnia wrote:
Bretonnian Lord on Royal Pegasus, Virtue of Heroism, charmed shield, fencers blades, dragonbane gem, 245
Propethess of the lady: level 4, Heavens, Sceptre of stability, 240
Damsel of the lady on horse, Level 1, Life, dispel scroll, 105
Paladin on Bretonnian Warhorse: BSB, Enchanted shield, Dawnstone, 109
Paladin on Bretonnian Warhorse: lance, shield, virtue of Noble Disdain, gromril greathelm, 130
Paladin on Bretonnian Warhorse: lance, shield, dragonhelm, luckstone, Warrior Bane, 100
8 Knight Errant: fcg, Banner of Swiftness, 196
10 Knights of the Realm: fcg, 264
13 Peasant Bowmen: champion, braziers, skirmish, 101
3 Pegasus knights: champion, 165
3 Pegasus knights: champion, 165
Field Trebuchet: 90
Field Trebuchet: 90
Total: 2000


Chaos Dwarfs wrote:
Prophet, L4, T.pres,D.scroll, 370 pts
Castellan, Bsb, 130 pts
20 Inf.Guard, Full com,Lichebone pennant, 287 pts
21 Inf.Guard, Full com, 284 pts
15 Inf.Guard, Fireglaives, 255 pts
1 Magma Cannon, 145 pts
1 Death Launcher, 100 pts
1 Death Launcher, 100 pts
1 K’daai Destroyer, 325 pts
Total: 1996 Pts


Daemons of Chaos wrote:
Herald of Tzeentch, lvl 2, metal, 125
Herald of Tzeentch, lvl 2, metal, 125
10 Horrors, 130
10 Horrors, 130
10 Horrors, 130
10 Horrors, 130
1 Beast of Nurgle, 60
6 Beasts of Nurgle, 360
6 Beasts of Nurgle, 360
3 Plague Drones, plague probosics, 180
1 Skullcannon, 135
1 Skullcannon, 135
Total: 2000

1 Herald of Tzeentch, general, lvl 2 upgrade, lore of Tzeentch, 125
1 Herald of Tzeentch, lvl 2 upgrade, lore of Metal, 125
10 Pink Horrors, 130
10 Pink Horrors, 130
10 Pink Horrors, 130
10 Pink Horrors, 130
6 Beasts of Nurgle, 360
6 Beasts of Nurgle, 360
1 Beast of Nurgle, 60
3 Plague Drones, Plague Proboscis, 180
1 Skull Cannon, 135
1 Skull Cannon, 135
Total: 2000


Dark Elves wrote:
Morathi on Sulephet (dark pegasus), general, level 4, lore of death/shadow/dark 375
Master on dark pegasus, BSB, heavy armour, sea dragons cloak, shield, lance, repeater crossbow, cloak of twilight 218
Sorceress, level 1, lore of fire, dispel scroll, ironcurse icon 110
21 darkshards, musician, standard bearer, shields, banner of eternal flame 303
5 dark riders, musician, shields, repeater crossbows 110
5 dark riders, musician, shields, repeater crossbows 110
Reaper Bolt Thrower 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower 70
Cold one chariot 115
Cold one chariot 115
5 harpies 75
5 harpies 75
5 Doomfire warlocks 125
5 Doomfire wrlocks 125
Total: 1996

Morathi, Hag Sorceress on Dark Pegasus Sulephet, Level 4, Magic = Dark/Shadow/Death/Metal ( special rule for spec. char. ), Enchanting Beauty, Hekartis Blessing, The first sorceress, Thousand and One Dark blessings, ASF, Hatred, Murderous Prowess, Heartrender, Dark sword : GENERAL 375p
Master of disaster on Dark Pegasus, ASF, Hatred, Murderous Prowess, Cloak of Twilight, Heavy Armor, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Great Weapon 188p
Master cheff on Dark Steed, ASF, Hatred, Murderess Prowess, Dragonbane Gem, The other tricksters shard, Heavy Armor, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Lance : BSB 143p
5 Dark Riders: Mus,shields, Rep. xbows 110p
5 Dark Riders : Mus, shields, Rep. xbows110p
22 Witch Elfs : Full Command, Banner of eternal flame 282p
5 Harpies 75p
5 shades, Extra Hand weapon 90p
1 RBT 70p
1 RBT 70p
19 Black Guard : Full Command, Razor Standard 360p
5 Doomfire Warlocks 125p
Total : 1998p

Dreadlord on Dark steed, general, sea dragon cloak, enchanted shield, giant blade, dawnstone 258
Supreme sorceress on Dark steed, level 4, lore of life 240
Master on Dark steed, BSB, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, shield, lance 123
Master on Dark steed, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, shield, lance, Other Trickster's shard 113
Master on Dark steed, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, shield, lance, Ring of hotek 148
Master on Dark steed, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, shield, Sword of might 112
19 Dark riders, FCG, shields, 353
5 Dark riders, shields 85
5 Dark riders, shields 85
5 harpies 75
Reaper Bolt Thrower 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower 70
5 Doomfire warlocks 125
Total: 1997

Dreadlord riding dark steed, general, sea dragon cloak, heavy armor, Giant blade, the other Tricksters shard, Charmed shield, 254
Supreme Sorceress, level 4, Death, Dispell scroll, 245
Master riding dark pegasus, BSB, sea dragon cloak, heavy armor, shield, repeater crossbow, Cloak of twilight, 212
8 Dark riders, musician, standard bearer, repeater crossbow, shield, 180
5 Dark riders, repeater crossbow, shield, 100
15 Darkshards, musician, standard bearer, shield, banner of eternal flame, 225
12 Executioners, musician, 154
5 shades, 80
5 shades, 80
5 shades, 80
Reaper bolt thrower, 70
Reaper bolt thrower, 70
5 Doomfire warlocks, 125
5 Doomfire warlocks, 125
Total: 2000

Dreadlord on dark steed, general, heavy armour, shield, sea dragon cloak, repeater crossbow, giant blade, dawnstone 267
Supreme Sorceress on dark steed, level 3, lore of death, dispel scroll 230
Master on dark pegasus, BSB, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, lance, charmed shield, talisman of preservation 211
Master on dark pegasus, heavy armour, shield, sea dragon cloak, repeater crossbow, lance, cloak of twilight 193
10 Dark riders, musician, shields, repeater crossbows 210
10 Dark riders, shields, repeater crossbows 200
5 dark riders, shields, repeater crossbows 100
5 harpies 75
Reaper Bolt Thrower 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower 70
7 Doomfire warlocks 175
5 Doomfire warlocks 125
Total: 1996

Morathi, General, 375
Master, BSB, Pegasus, Heavy Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield, Lance, Cloak of Twillight, 213
Sorceress, Level 2, Shadow, Dark Steed, Dispel Scroll, 150
14 Witch Elves, Musician, 164
14 Witch Elves, Musician, 164
5 Dark Riders, Shield, Musician, 95
5 Dark Riders, Shield, 85
8 Shades, 2 Hand Weapons 144
8 Shades, 128
4 Reaper Bolt Throwers, 280
8 Warlocks, 200
Total: 1998


Dwarfs wrote:
Dwarf Lord on Shieldbearers: general, gromril armour, shield, runic weapon( master rune of snorri spangelhelm, rune of fury, rune of might), runic armour (2x rune of fortitude), 313 points
Runesmith: gromril armour, great weapon, runic talisman (2x rune of spellbreaking), 111 points
Thane: BSB, gromril armour, shield, runic weapon (rune of fire, rune of striking), runic armour (rune of iron, rune of stone), 138 points
Master Engineer: 70 points
20 Dwarf Warriors: FCG, great weapons, 230 points
20 Quarrelers: FCG, 270 points
20 Hammerers: FCG, shields, runic standard (master rune of valaya), 395 points
1 Gyrocopter: 80 Points
1 Gyrocopter: 80 Points
1 Cannon: engineering runes (rune of forging, rune of burning), 150 points
1 Organ Gun: engineering runes (rune of penetration), 160 points
Total: 1997


Empire wrote:
Arch Lector, general, War altar of Sigmar, Armour of Meteoric Iron, 300
Captain of the Empire, BSB, Enchanted Shield, Great weapon, Full plate, 102
Battle Wizard, Lv2, Lore of Light, Dispel Scroll, 125
Master Engineer, Ruby Ring of Ruin, 90
50 Spearmen, Shield, Musician, Standard Bearer, Sergeant, 330
49 Spearmen, Musician, Standard Bearer, Sergeant, 5 Detachment Handgunners, 320
Great Cannon, 120
Great Cannon, 120
Helblaster Volley Gun, 120
Steam Tank, 250
Luminark of Hysh, 120
Total 1999

Battle Wizard Lord, general, lvl 4, life, Van Horstmann’s Speculum, 240
Captain of the Empire, BSB, heavy amour, shield, Standard of Discipline, 104
Battle Wizard, lvl 2, shadow, Dispel Scroll, 125
Master Engineer, light amour, 66
24 Swordsmen, fcg, regimental unit with detachment, 198
8 Handgunners, detachment for Swordsmen, 72
5 Knightly orders, 110
5 Knightly orders, fcg, inner circle knights, 155
Great Cannon, 120
Great Cannon, 120
Mortar, 100
Mortar, 100
Helblaster Volley Gun, 120
Helstorm Rocket Battery, 120
Steam Tank, 250
Total: 2000

Arch Lector, general, war altar of sigmar, heavy armour, enchanted shield, talisman of preservation, 304
Battle wizard, lvl 1, lore of light, dispel scroll, 90
Captain of the Empire, BSB, full plate armour, shield, 93
49 Halberdiers, fcg, 324
10 Handgunners, 90
8 knightly orders inner circle, fcg, 230
3 Demigryph knights, musician, 184
3 Demigryph knights, musician, 184
Steamtank, 250
Steamtank, 250
Total: 1999

Arch lector on War Altar: General, Horn of Sigismund, Heavy armour, Talisman of Preservation, Charmed shield, 304
Battle wizard lord: lvl 3, Light, Dispel Scroll, 190
Captain: BSB, Full plate armour, Ironcurse Icon, Enchanted shield, Shrieking blade, Dawnstone, 136
Captain on Pegasus: Full plate armour, shield, Dragonhelm, Luckstone, Sword of Might, Potion of Foolhardiness, 153
Captain on Barded warhorse: Full plate armour, shield, Warrior bane, 91
48 Halberdiers, FCG, 318
5 Archers, 35
5 Archers, 35
11 Knights of the Empire, FCG, Inner Circle, Gleaming pendant, 310
3 Demigryph Knights, Musician, 184
Great Cannon, 120
Great Cannon, 120
Total 1996

Battle Wizard Lord, warhorse, general, lvl 4, lore of life, dispel scroll, crown of command, dragonbane gem, 283 pts
Captain of the Empire, warhorse, battle standard bearer, full plate, barding, charmed shield, dawnstone, biting blade, 147 pts
13 Knightly Order, inner circle, fcg, standard of discipline, 370 pts
6 Knightly Order, 132 pts
5 Demigryph Knights, musician, banner, gleaming pennant, 315 pts
4 Demigryph Knights, musician, banner, 252 pts
Steam Tank, 250 pts
Steam Tank, 250 pts
Totalt: 1999 pts

Wizard Lord: General, lvl4, lore of life, Dispel Scroll 225
Wizard Lord: lvl4, lore of light, Sceptre of Stability, Ironcurse Icon 220
Captain of the Empire: Full plate armour, BSB, Shield, Standard of Discipline: 108
50 Halberdiers; FCG 320
Detachement1: 9 archers 63
Detachement2: 22 Halberdiers 138
7 Demigryph; Standard, Musician 426
Steam Tank 250
Steam Tank 250
Total: 2000

Grand Master on barded warhorse, general, runefang, charmed shield, potion of speed, luckstone 255
Battle Wizard lord on warhorse, level 4, lore of death, dispel scroll 243
Captain of the empire on warhorse, BSB, barding, full plate armour, great weapon, dragonhelm, The Other trickster`s shard, dawnstone 163
13 knightly orders, FCG, inner circle, standard of dicipline 370
10 archers 70
10 archers 70
5 Demigryph knights, FCG, Gleaming pennant 325
Steam Tank 250
Steam Tank 250
Total: 1996

Arch Lector, general, Fozzrik`s folding fortress 200
Wizard Lord, level 4, lore of life, obsidian lodestone, sceptre of stability 260
Captain, BSB, standard of dicipline 100
Wizard, level 1, lore of light, 65
Wizard, level 1, lore of light, dispel scroll 90
Wizard, level 1, lore of light, scroll of shielding 80
Wizard, level 2, lore of light, power stone 120
10 archers 70
10 archers 70
10 archers 70
10 archers 70
10 archers 70
25 handgunners, musician 235
Steam Tank 250
Steam Tank 250
Total: 2000

Battle Wizard Lord: General, Lvl 4, Life, Dispel Scroll, 225
Battle Wizard Lord: Lvl 4, Light, Obsidian Amulet, Scroll of Shielding, 245
Captain of the Empire: BSB, Standard of Discipline, 100
45 Halberdiers: FCG, 300
20 Halberdiers: Detachment, 120
12 Archers: Detachment, 84
4 Demigryph Knights: Mus, 242
3 Demigryph Knights: Mus, 184
Steam Tank: 250
Steam Tank: 250
Total: 2000




High Elves wrote:
Teclis, general, 450
Noble on barded elven steed, bsb, Dragon armour, Sword of Might, Dawnstone, Enchanted Shield, 170
30 Archers, mu, 310
10 Archers, mu, 110
5 Ellyrian reavers, 80
26 White lions, fcg, botwg, 418
8 Dragon princes, champion, mu, 252
1 Eagle claw bolt thrower, 70
1 Eagle claw bolt thrower, 70
1 Eagle claw bolt thrower, 70
Total: 2000

Annointed of Asuryan, General, Mounted on Flamespyre Phoenix, Giant Blade, Enchanted Shield - 500
Noble, BSB, Mounted on Griffon with Swooping Strike and Swiftsense, Lance, Heavy Armour, Charmed Shield, Golden Crown of Atrazar, Khaine's Ring of Fury - 340
Mage, Lvl 2 High Magic, Mounted on Elven Steed, Dispel Scroll, Dragonbane Gem - 160
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Bows, Champion - 95
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Bows, Champion - 95
13 Silver Helms, Shields, Full Command Group - 329
Frostheart Phoenix - 240
Frostheart Phoenix - 240
Total: 1999

Loremaster, General, lvl 2, Book of Hoeth, Shield of the Merwyrm, Biting Blade, Ironcurse Icon, Dragonbane Gem, 320
Noble, BSB, Shield, Heavy Armour, Standard of Discipline, 116
10 Archers, 100
10 Archers, 100
10 Archers, 100
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Harbinger, Take Bows, 105
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Take Bows, 95
28 White Lions of Chrace, FCG, Banner of the World Dragon, 444
21 Phoenix Guards, Banner, Musician, Razor Standard, 380
Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower, 70
Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower, 70
Great Eagle, 50
Great Eagle, 50
Total: 2000

Teclis, 450 points
Lothern Sea Helm: BSB, Reaver Bow, Shield of the Merwyrm, Ironcurse Icon, 170 points
Mage: Shadow, Forbidden Rod, 120 points
30 Archers, FCG, 330 points
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Bows (Swap), 85 points
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Bows (Swap), 85 points
36 White Lions, FCG, Banner of the World Dragon, 548 points
1 Repeater Bolt Thrower, 70 points
1 Repeater Bolt Thrower, 70 points
1 Repeater Bolt Thrower, 70 points
Total: 1998 points

Teclis, 450
Sea helm, bsb, Reaver bow, shield of mywrwinm Ironcurse icon, 170
Mage, forbbiden rod, 120
20x Archers, Musician 210
6x silver helms, high helm, shield, 148
6x silver helms, high helm, shield, 148
30x White Lions, FC, banner of the world dragon, 470
1x bolt thrower 70
1x bolt thrower 70
1x bolt thrower 70
1x bolt thrower 70
Total: 1996


Lizardmen wrote:
Scar veteran, Halberd, Cold one, Stegadon helmet, Light armour, Bsb, 173
Skink priest, Beasts, Level 2, Cube of darkness, 130
Skink priest, Beasts, Level 2, Dispell scroll, 125
12 Skink Skirmishers, 84
10 Skink Skirmishers, 70
10 Skink Skirmishers, 70
10 Skink Cohort, 1 kroxigor, Banner & musician, 140
10 Skink Cohort, 1 kroxigor, Banner & musician, 140 pts
6 Cold one riders, Spears, Banner & musician, 224 Pts
6 Cold one riders, Spears, Banner & musician, 224 Pts
3 Ripperdactyl riders, 120
3 Ripperdactyl riders, 120
6 chamelion skinks 78
Ancient Stegadon, Sharpened horns, Engine of the gods, 300
Total 1998

Slann Mage-Priest: Lore of Life; lvl 4; Becalming Cogitation; Harmonic Convergence; Channelling Staff; Battle Standard Bearer (Razor Standard) 440
Skink Priest: Lore of Heavens; lvl 1; Dispel Scroll 90
Tetto'eko 185
Saurus Scar-Veteran: Cold One; great weapon; light armour; Dragonhelm; Dawnstone 145
10 Skink Skirmishers: Lustrian javelins and shields 70
10 Skink Skirmishers: Lustrian javelins and shields 70
66 Skinks: Skink Brave; musician; standard bearer; Lustrian javelins and shields 360
28 Temple Guard: Revered Guardian; musician; standard bearer (Standard of Discipline) 437
5 Ripperdactyl Riders 200
1997 points

Slann Mage Priest (4), General + Bsb, Higher state of conciousness, Focus of Mystery, Harmonic Convergence, Channeling Staff, Obsidian Trinket, 480
Skink Priest (1) Beasts, Dispell Scroll, 90
Saurus Scar Veteran, Cold One, Light Armor, Great Weapon, Dawnstone, Dragonhelm, 165
10 Skink Skirmishersw, javelin + shield, 70
10 Skink Skirmishersw, javelin + shield, 70
10 Skink Skirmishersw, javelin + shield, 70
10 Skink Skirmishersw, javelin + shield, 70
10 Skink Skirmishersw, javelin + shield, 70
16 Skink Kohort, 1 Kroxigor, Musician, Standard, 150
23 Temple Guard, Musician, Standard, Razor Banner, 387
4 Ripperdactyl Riders, 160
6 Cold one Riders, Spear, Musician
Total, 1996

Slann Mage-Priest: General, BSB, Lore of Life, Becalming Cogitation, Harmonic Convergence, Reservor Of Eldritch Energy, Banner of Swiftness, The Egg Of Quango, 445
Tetto'eko 185
Skink Priest: Dispel Scroll. 90
Saurus Scar-Veteran on cold one: great weapon,; light armour, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone, 145
10 Skink Skirmishers: javelin, shield. 70
10 Skink Skirmishers: javelin, shield. 70
10 Skink Skirmishers: javelin, shield. 70
18 Skinks: Musician. 100
16 Skinks: Musician. 90
10 Skinks 50
10 Skinks 50
32 Temple Guard: FCG, Razor Standard. 523
3 Terradon Riders: Fireletch bolas. 108
Total: 1996

Slann, general, BSB, higher state of consciousness, harmonic convergence, unfathomable presence, wandering deliberations, channelig staff, scarecrow banner, dragonbane gem 500
Scar-veteran, cold one, light armour, great weapon, dawnstone, glittering scales, 154
Skink chief, terradon, light armour, charmed shield, egg of quango, biting blade, luck stone 127
Skink priest, lvl 2, heavens, dispel scroll, ironcurse icon, 130
10 skink skirmishers 70
10 skink skirmishers 70
10 skink skirmishers 70
10 skink cohort 50
10 skink cohort 50
16 skink cohort, musician, 2 kroxigor 190
1 bastiladon, solar engine 150
3 terradons 105
4 ripperdactyls, ripperdactyl brave 170
1 salamander, extra handler 84
1 salamander 80
Total: 2000


Ogre Kingdoms wrote:
Slaughtermaster, general, level 4, lore of heavens, great weapon, talisman of preservation, glittering scales, The other trickster`s shard 380
Bruiser, BSB, great weapon, Rune maw 201
Butcher, level 1, lore of the great maw, additional hand weapon, dispel scroll 127
Firebelly, level 1, lore of fire, additional hand weapon, hellheart 172
10 ironguts, FCG, look out gnoblar, standard of dicipline, 480
10 gnoblars 25
Gorger 90
Gorger 90
Gorger 90
Ironblaster 170
Ironblaster 170
Total: 1995

Slaughtermaster , lvl 4, fencer's blades, dispell scroll, talisman of endurance, ironcurse icon, 380 pts
Bruiser, bsb, Rune Maw, Great weapon 201 pts
Firebelly, x-hand weapon, hellheart, 172 pts
8 ironguts, full command, standard of dicipline, 389 pts
3 Ogers, x-handweapon, musician, standarbearer, 113pts
4 mournfang cavalry, hvy armor, ironfist, standar bearer, dragonhide banner, 340 pts
Sabertusks ,21 pts
Sabertusks , 21 pts
Sabertusks , 21 pts
ironblaster 170 pts
ironblasster 170pts
total: 1998

Slaughtermaster, general, lvl 4, great maw, warrior bane, charmed shield, crown of command, hellhearth 380 pts
Firebelly, lvl 1, fire, dispel scroll, the other trickster shard 160? pts
Bruiser, Bsb, Great weapon, Heavy armour, Rune maw 205 pts
11 Ironguts, fcg, banner of discipline, look out gnoblar 523 pts
4 mournfang cavalry, Bellower, standard bearer, Heavy armour, iron fist, dragonhide banner 350 pts
1 sabertusk 21 pts
1 sabertusk 21 pts
1 ironblaster 170 pts
1 ironblaster 170 pts


Orcs and Goblins wrote:
Orc Great Shaman: General, lvl 4,Big Waaagh, Dispel Scroll, Talisman of Preservation, Ruby Ring Of Ruin, 295
Night Goblin Big Boss: BSB, Shield, Standard of Discipline, 72
Night Goblin Big Boss: Great Weapon, 34
Night Goblin Big Boss: Great Weapon, 34
Night Goblin Big Boss: Great Weapon, 34
5 Goblin Wolf Riders: Musican, Spears, Shield, 70
20 Night Goblins: Musican, Spears, Shield, 3 Fanatics, 145
77 Night Goblins: Musican, Spears, Shield, Netters, 286
40 Black Orks: FCG, Shield,Lichbone Pennant, 570
Doom Diver Catapult: 80
Doom Diver Catapult: 80
Mangler Squigs: 65
Mangler Squigs: 65
Goblin Rock Lobber: 85
Goblin Rock Lobber: 85
Total: 2000

Wurrzag, Great savage orc shaman: general, level 4, Big Waagh!,Wurrzag's revenge bonus spell, Bonewood Staff, Baleful Mask, Squigly Beast, Warpaint of Wurrzag, Choppas, Frenzy, 350 points
Black orc Big boss: Heavy Armour, Choppas, Armed to da Teef, Immune to Psychology, Quell Animosity 90 points.
Savage orc shaman: level 1, Big Waagh!, Choppa, Size Matters, Lucky Shrunken Head, 120 points.
Night Goblin Big Boss: Bsb, Fear Elves, Hatred Dwarfs 55 points.
Night Goblin Shaman: Level 1, Little Waagh!, Fear Elves, Hatred Dwarfs, Dispel Scroll, Ruby Ring of Ruin 100 points.
40 Savage orc big un's: Standard, Musician, Add h.w., Big un's,, 460 points.
20 Night Goblins: Musician, Short bows, 2x Fanatics, 120 points.
5 Wolf Riders: Light Armour, Shields, Spears, 60 points.
5 Wolf Riders: Light Armour, Shields, 55 points.
Wolf Chariot: 50 points.
Spear Chukka: 35 points.
1 Troll: 35 points.
1 Troll: 35 points.
Rock Lobba: 85 points.
Doom Diver: 80 points.
Doom Diver: 80 points.
Mangler Squigs: 65 points.
Mangler Squigs: 65 points.
Snotling Pump Wagon: out-rigga, flappas 60 points.
Total: 2000 points

Goblin Warboss: General, light armor, Charmed Shield, Dragonbane Gem, Ruby Ring of Ruin, 103.
Night Goblin Big Boss: Battle Standard Bearer, Standard of Discipline, 70.
Goblin Big Boss on Gigantic Spider: Light armor, shield, Dragonhelm, Luckstone, Gold Sigil Sword, 109.
Night Goblin Shaman: Level 2, Little Waaagh!, 85.
Goblin Shaman: Lvl 2, Little Waagh!, Dispel Scroll, 115.
60 Night Goblins: FCG, shield, Netters, Fanatic, 280.
26 Night Goblins: Musician, Boss, short bow, Fanatic. 123.
5 Goblin Wolf Riders: Light armor, short bow, 55.
5 Goblin Wolf Riders: Light armor, shield, spear, 60.
30 Night Goblin Squig Herd: 10 Night Goblins + 20 Squigs, 190.
1 Goblin Wolf Chariot: 50.
1 Goblin Spear Chukka: 35.
8 Trolls: 280.
2 Mangler Squigs: 65.
1 Snotling Pump Wagon: Giant Explodin' Spores, Out-rigga, 70.
1 Goblin Rock Lobber: 85.
2 Doom Diver Catapult. 80.
Total: 2000.

Orc Warboss, general, Talisman of Preservation, Crown of Command, 195
Night Goblin Great Shaman, lvl4, 175
Goblin Big Boss, BSB ,Spider Banner, shield, 147
Goblin Big Boss on Wolf, spear, 49
Night Goblin Big Boss, GW, 34
Night Goblin Shaman,lvl 1, Dispel Scroll, 75
Orc Shaman, lvl 2, 100
60 Night Goblin, MC, Netters, Fantatics x2, 295
20 Savage Orch, Additional HW, Big Uns, 220
7 Trolls , 245
1 Doom Diver Catapult,80
1 Doom Diver Catapul,80
1 Mangler Squigs, 65
1 Mangler Squigs, 65
1 Goblin Rock Lobber 85
1 Snotling Pump Wagon 45
1 Snotling Pump Wagon 45
Total : 2000


Skaven wrote:
Grey Seer, screaming bell, dispel scroll, dragonbane gem, skalm, 500
Assassin, weeping blade, potion of strength, 170
Chieftain, bsb, great weapon, storm banner, 124
Warlock Engineer, lvl 2, warp-energy condenser, 120
Warlock Engineer, brass orb 65
36 Stormvermin, fcg, war banner, 302
38 Skavenslaves, champion, musician, 82
38 Skavenslaves, champion, musician 82
39 Skavenslaves, champion, musician, 84
1 Hell Pit Abomination, 235 pts
1 Hell Pit Abomination, 235 pts
Total: 1999

Grey Seer on Screaming Bell: General, Lvl4, Ruin, 440
Chieftain: Battle Standard Bearer, Halberd, Shield, Banner of Swiftness, 89
Assassin: Weeping Blades, Potion of Strength, 170
Warlock Engineer: Lvl1, Ruin, Warplock Pistol, Warp Energy Condensator, 93
Warlock Engineer: Brass Orb, 65
33 Stormvermin: Fangleader, Standard Bearer, Musician, Banner of the Under-Empire, Shields, Poisoned Wind Mortar, 379
22 Clanrats: Clawleader, Standard Bearer, Musician, Spears, Shields, Poisoned Wind Mortar, 195
26 Giant Rats, 4 Packmasters: 110
5 Giant Rats, 1 Packmasters: 23
5 Giant Rats, 1 Packmasters: 23
5 Giant Rats, 1 Packmasters: 23
Doomwheel: 150
Doomwheel: 150
Warp Lightning Cannon: 90
Total: 2000


Tomb Kings wrote:
High Queen Khalida, General, 365
Liche High Priest, Hierophant, The Lore of Nehekhara, Earthing Rod, 200
Liche Priest, lvl 2, The Lore of Nehekara, Enkil's Kanopi, 130
Tomb Herald, BsB, Banner of Eternal Flame, 95
20 Skeleton Archers, Master of Arrows, 130
20 Skeleton Archers, Master of Arrows, 130
50 Skeleton Warriors, full command, 230
50 Skeleton Warriors, full command, 230
Khemrian Warsphinx, Fiery Roar, 230
Khemrian Warsphinx, Fiery Roar, 230
Casket of Souls, 135
Screaming Skull Catapult, 90
6 Skeleton Horse Archers, Master of Scouts, 94
Total: 2289

High Queen Khalida: General, 365
Liche High Priest: lvl4, Nehekara, Heirophant, 210
Ramhotep The Visionary, 110
Liche Priest: lvl1, Death, Dispel Scroll, 95
Liche Priest: lvl1, Death, Power Stone, 90
56 Skeleton Archers: Champion, Musician, 356
10 Skeleton Archers: 60
5 Skeleton Horse Archers: 70
5 Skeleton Horse Archers: 70
5 Skeleton Horse Archers: 70
7 Necropolis Knights: Champion, Musician, Standard bearer, 485
Screaming Skull Catapult: 90
Screaming Skull Catapult: 90
Casket of Souls: 135
Total: 2296

Liche High Priest: Hierophant, Magic level 4, Lore of Nehekhara, Dispell scroll, Ruby Ring of Ruin, 260 pts
Liche High Priest: General, Magic level 4, Lore of Death, Power Stone, 230 pts
25 Skeleton Archers: Champion, musician, 170 pts
10 Skeleton Archers: 60 pts
10 Skeleton Archers: 60 pts
5 Skeleton Horse Archers: Champion, 80 pts
5 Skeleton Horse Archers: 70 pts
5 Skeleton Horse Archers: 70 pts
5 Skeleton Horse Archers: 70 pts
Khemrian Warsphinx: Fiery Roar, 230 pts
Khemrian Warsphinx: Fiery Roar, 230 pts
Khemrian Warsphinx: Fiery Roar, 230 pts
Casket of Souls: 135 pts
Necrosphinx: 225 pts
Screaming Skull Catapult: 90 pts
Screaming Skull Catapult: 90 pts
Total: 2300 pts


Vampire Counts wrote:
Master Necromancer, general, magic level 3, lore of vampire, the cursed book, cost 200
Master Necromancer, magic level 4, lore of death, black periapt, cost 255
Cairn wraith: 60
Cairn wraith: 60
Necromancer :magic level 1, lore of vampire, Dispel scroll, 90
5x Dire wolves: 40
5x Dire wolves: 40
36x skeleton warriors: FCG, banner of swiftness, 225
30x Zombies: FCG, 100
30x Zombies: FCG , 100
10x Crypt horrors: 380
1x Terrorgheist: 225
1x Terrorgheist: 225
Total: 2000

Vampire Lord: General LV4, Lore of Vampire, Nightshroud, Talisman of Preservation, The Other Tricksters shard, Red fury, 475 p
Necromancer: Lv1, Lore of Death, Dispel Scroll, 90 p
Necromancer: Lv1, Lore of Death, The Book Arkhan, 90 p
Tomb Banshee: 95 p
Cairn Wraith: 60 p
Cairn Wraith: 60 p
21 Zombie Horde: Standard, Musician, 73 p
20 Zombie Horde: Standard, Musician, 70 p
5 Dire Wolves: 40 p
36 Crypt Ghols: Crypt Ghast, 370 p
9 Crypt Horrors: Crypt Haunter, 352 p
Terrorgheist: 225 p
2000 p

Vampire lord, general, lvl 4, lore of vampires, red fury, beguile, quickblood, talisman of preservation, sword of striking, enchanted shield, heavy armor, 491
Necromancer, lvl 1, lore of vampires, ruby ring of ruin, 90
Necromancer, lvl 1, lore of vampires, the cursed book, 100
20 Zombies, 60
20 Zombies, 60
20 Zombies, 60
20 Zombies, 60
30 Ghouls, ghast, 310
32 Grave guard, FCG, banner of the barrows, great weapons, 464
8 Crypt horrors, 304
Total: 1999


Warriors of Chaos wrote:
Chaos Sorcerer Lord, barded chaos steed, general, lvl 4, nurgle, mark of nurgle, chaos familiar, soul feeder, nurgle’s rot, filth mace, helm of many eyes, talisman of preservation, 449
Exalted hero, mark of tzeentch, BSB, Scaled skin, shield, 168
Chaos sorcerer, lvl 2, death, dispel scroll, 170
5 Marauder horsemen, mark of slaneesh, throwing axes, 85
5 chaos warhounds, 30
20 chaos warriors, fcg, mark of tzeentch, shields, banner of swiftness 385
5 chaos knights, musician, mark of nurgle, ensorcelled weapons, 235
6 skullcrushers of khorne, musician, ensorcelled weapons, 478
Total: 2000

Daemon Prince, general, daemon of khorne, chaos armour, daemonic flight, collar of khorne, soul feeder, scaled skin, sword of striking, charmed shield 400
Exalted hero on daemonic mount, BSB, Mark of Tzeentch, barding, great weapon, shield, talisman of preservation, potion of foolhardiness, third eye of tzeentch 264
Throgg 195
11 chaos trolls, additional hand weapons 418
5 chaos warhounds, vanguard 40
5 chaos warhounds 30
5 chaos warhounds 30
Chimera, flaming breath, regenerating flesh 275
4 Skullcrushers of Khorne, musician, standard bearer, ensorcelled weapons, banner of swiftness 347
Total: 1999

Deamon Princeof Nurgle, Lvl 3, Lore of Death, Charmed shield, Dragon bane gem, Chaos familiar, Flaming breath, Scaled skin, Daemonic flight. 495
Excalted hero of Tzeentch BSB, Daemonic mount, Barding, Shield, Talisman of Preservation, Third eye of Tzeentch, Warrior Bane. 258
Chaos sorcerer of Nurgle, Lvl 2, Lore of Metal, Daemonic Mount, Barding, Enchanted shield, Dispel scroll, 235
7 Marauder horsemen of Slaanesh, champion, musician, 125
1 Chimera, Flaming breath, Regenerating flesh 275
3 Chaos chariot of Nurgle, 125
3 Skullcrushers of Khorne, Ensorcelled weapons, 234
Total: 1997

Daemon Prince: General, Daemon of Nurgle, Lvl 4 Wizard Lore of Death, Chaos Armour, Scaled Skin, Charmed Shield, Daemonic Flight, Dragonbane Gem, Soulfeeder, The Other Trickster’s Shard - 500
Exhalted Hero on Daemonic Mount w/ Barding: Battle Standard Bearer, Mark of Tzeentch, Talisman of Preservation, Third Eye of Tzeentch, Great Weapon - 256
3 Skullcrushers of Khorne: Ensorcelled Weapons - 234
3 Skullcrushers of Khorne: Ensorcelled Weapons - 234
Chimera: Regenerating Flesh, Flaming Breath - 275
Chaos Chariot: Mark of Nurgle - 125
Chaos Chariot: Mark of Nurgle - 125
Chaos Chariot: Mark of Nurgle - 125
Chaos Chariot: Mark of Nurgle - 125
Total: 1999

Chaos Lord: General, Armour Of Destiny, Obsidian Trinket, Crown Of Cmd, Third Eye Of Tzeentch, Soul Feeder, Scaled Skin, great weapon, Mark of Tzeentch, Disc of Tzeentch, 398
Exalted Hero: Talisman Of Preservation, Charmed Shield, Burning Body; halberd; Mark of Tzeentch, Battle Standard, Daemonic Mount (Barding), 261
Chaos Sorceror: Lvl 2, Enchanted Shield, Talisman Of Endurance, Chaos Familiar, Mark of Tzeentch, 220
Chaos Chariot: Mark of Slaanesh, 115
Chaos Chariot: Mark of Slaanesh, 115
Chaos Chariot: Mark of Slaanesh, 115
10 Chaos Warriors: Banner, Musician, Blasted Standard, shield, halberd, Mark of Tzeentch, 245
5 Chaos Warhounds: 30
3 Skullcrushers Of Khorne: Lances; Musician; Standard Bearer, Gleaming Pennant, 256
3 Skullcrushers Of Khorne: Ensorcelled Blades; Musician, 244
Total: 1999

Wood Elves wrote:
Spellweaver :general, level 4, Shadow, Obsidian Loadstone, Earthing Rod 290
Glade captain : BSB, Hail of Doom Arrow, Starfire Shafts, Enchanted Shield, 139
Spellsinger: level 2, Metal, Dispel Scroll , 140
20 Glade Guard: FCG, Trueflight Arrows, 330
13 Glade Guard: Banner and musician, Banner for Eternal Flame, 186
10 Wardancers: Bladesinger, 160
5 Wild Riders: Shields, 140
5 Wild Riders: Shields, 140
10 Waywatchers: 200
1 Treeman: 225
1 Great Eagle: 50
Total: 2000

Spellweaver on Elven Steed: Genereal, level 4, Lore of Shadow, Always strike first, Blessings of the Ancients, Forest Stalker, Hand Weapon, Dispel scroll, 265
Glade Captain on Elven Steed: Battle Standard Bearer, Always strike first, The Arrow of Kurnous, Forest Stalker, Hand Weapon, Asrai Longbow, Light armour, Shield, Hail of Doom Arrow, Dragonhelm, 152
22 Eternal Guards: musician, champion, standard bearer, shields, hand weapon, asrai spear, light armor, 294
8 Glade Riders: Standard bearer, asrai spear, hand weapon, light armour, Hagbane Tips, Gleaming Pennant, 211
12 Deepwood Scouts: Hagbane tips, hand weapon, asrai longbow, 192
3 Warhawk riders: 135
10 Sisters of thorn: Champion, Musician, Standard bearer, Lichebone Pennant, 305
1 Treeman, strangleroots, 245
5 Waywatchers, 100
5 Waywatchers, 100
Total 1999

Spellweaver, general, level 4, lore of shadow, dispel scroll, talisman of endurance, moonstone of the hidden ways 315
Glade captain, BSB, Hail of doom arrow 130
Spellsinger, level 1, lore of shadow, Obsidian lodestone 125
Waystalker 90
Waystalker 90
15 Glade guards, musician, trueflight arrows 235
17 Glade guards, musician, trueflight arrows 265
7 Sisters of the Thorn 182
6 Wild riders 156
9 Waywatchers 180
9 Waywatchers 180
1 Great eagle 50
Total: 1998

Spellsinger on Elven steed: General, lvl2, Lore of Shadow, ASF, Blessing of the ancients, Forest stalker, Dispel Scroll, Ruby Ring of Ruin, 175 pts
Spellsinger on Elven steed: lvl2, Lore of Death, ASF, Blessing of the ancients, Forest stalker, Channeling staff, Obsidian Amulet, 170 pts
Waystalker: ASF, Forest stalker, Hawk-eyed Archer, Scout, Sniper, Asrai Longbow, Hand weapon, extra hand weapon, Bow of loren, 110 pts
10 Glade Riders: FCG, Banner of Eternal flame, Hagbane Tips, 260 pts
5 Glade Riders: Mus, hagbane arrows, 120 pts
5 Glade Riders: Mus, hagbane arrows, 120 pts
12 Wardancers: Mus, 190 pts
10 Deepwood Scouts: Mus, Trueflight arrows, 170 pts
10 Deepwood Scouts: Mus, Trueflight arrows, 170 pts
5 Sisters of the Thorn: Mus, Std, Gleaming Pennant, 155 pts
9 Waywatchers: 180 pts
9 Waywaywatchers 180 pts
Total: 2000pts

Spellweaver on elven steed: general, lvl 4, lore of beast, feedback scroll, 290
Glade Captain on elven steed, asrai spear, shield, starfire arrows, 93
Glade Captain on great stag, potion of foolhardiness, asrai spear, shield, 144
Glade Captain on great eagle, asrai spear, shield, 129
Waystalker, bow of loren, 110
15 Glade guards, musician, trueflight arrows, 235
12 Dryads, 132
7 Glade riders, 133
7 Sisters of the thorn, 182
7 Wildriders, 182
3 Warhawk riders, 135
3 Tree kin, 135
5 Waywatchers, 100
Total: 2000

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:08 pm 
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i spy with my little eye.... a folding fortress!!!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:52 pm 
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Folding fortress indeed, and quite the army to play it, too. Will be a pain for many armies. This is an excellent case for Dwellers to do some serious damage.

The lists overall are nasty, no doubt. In theory, my list has answers to most of them. In practice, it all hinges on magic to carry the day for big wins. High Elves @2k is hard. I`m looking to get 2 more test games, I doubt I`ll have time for more.

Any thoughts on what lists to look out for? :)

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:15 pm 
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definitely depends on magic, I took teclis to a 2k almost uncomped (including nagash rules) last weekend, with pretty much the same spells as you.
took:
Teclis
noble BsB, shield of merwyrm, golden crown, reaver bow
archers x 30 FC
2 x 5 reavers bows only
28 swordmasters FC the banner
2 x 5 dragon princes (one with banner, other with champ)
2 x bolt throwers

5 games based with 20-0 system and 60 points for painting!! (hence me bringing my well painted dragon princes)

swordmasters with teclis saw 2 combats all tourney, no one wanted to come near them with the range of spells teclis had available.

I really missed a forbidden rod mage, as a couple of low magic phases turned what would have been big wins into small/drawish wins, or just for that extra channel.

getting to pick the spells is awesome but some extra lvl 1 mages with good arcane items is where I fell short, POWERDICE!!

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:01 pm 
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hah check this list; Do you see somegood Tower lists for Highelves?

Archmage lvl4 scroll of shielding

Prince
Folding fortress, halberd dragon armour

Mage LvL 2, light

Mage LvL 1, light

Mage LvL 1, light

Noble, BsB, BotwD

5 reavers, bow
5 reavers, bow
5 reavers, bow
5 reavers, bow

5 Silverhelms, Shield, champ
5 Silverhelms, Shield, champ

25 Sisters of Avelorn

Eagleclaw bolthrower
Eagleclaw bolthrower

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:24 am 
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@sparkytrypod - So far the Forbidden Rod has been a godsend in pretty much all of my games. I kind of regret not taking an extra L1 with a secondary scroll, going double light for the potential of S6 Banishment. I think this would be a great weapon to wield in a number of matchups.

@Browncastle - I have not seen any good tower-HE lists. The problem is that we don`t have any serious threats at a range and we frequently end up bleeding too many points outside of the bunker.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:05 am 
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Yesterday I had another game with Teclis, playing against Dark Reaper`s Dark Elves. For the occasion, he took one of the NM Morathi lists, with lots of mobility and shooting. At 2k uncomped with the lists as they are now, Dark Elves are not the ones scaring me the most, but nevertheless practice against them is highly valuable.


.::. Battle Report - 2000 vs Dark Elves (uncomped) .::.

My list:
Quote:
Teclis (Flaming Sword of Rhuin, Blade of Aiban, Wildform, Comet, Withering, Flesh to Stone, Pha`s Protection, Soulblight) - 450
Sea Helm BSB, Reaver Bow, Shield of the Merwyrm, Ironcurse Icon - 170
Shadow Mage, Forbidden Rod - 120

30 Archers, FC = 330
5 Reavers, Bows = 85
5 Reavers, Bows = 85
Core = 500

36 White Lions, Full Command, Banner of the World Dragon = 548

3 Repeater Bolt Throwers = 210

Army Total = 1998


His list:
Quote:
Morathi on Sulephet (dark pegasus), general, level 4, lore of death/shadow/dark 375
Master on dark pegasus, BSB, heavy armour, sea dragons cloak, shield, lance, repeater crossbow, cloak of twilight 218
Sorceress, level 1, lore of fire, dispel scroll, ironcurse icon 110

21 darkshards, musician, standard bearer, shields, banner of eternal flame 303
5 dark riders, musician, shields, repeater crossbows 110
5 dark riders, musician, shields, repeater crossbows 110

Reaper Bolt Thrower 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower 70
Cold one chariot 115
Cold one chariot 115
5 harpies 75
5 harpies 75

5 Doomfire warlocks 125
5 Doomfire wrlocks 125
Total: 1996


The idea behind my spell selection was to play Teclis like a super-loremaster: Always having the small spells available. With almost all the spells having low casting values I could take maximum advantage of his +5 to cast. The battle would prove this to be a flawed approach however...

With my opponent having a million drops, he could deploy perfectly against me. For this game then, it was very important for me to deploy regardless of what he did, to simply make a formation that would be very hard for him to engage. To this end I decided to go for an approach I have frequently used with my more mobile lists, spreading the RBTs out on the table edge on my refused flank with the Archers on the extreme flank, protected by the Lions toward the center. He opted for the other flank, so we would have a skewed game with him having the greater degree of mobility (something I know is a big advantage). The question then would be simply if I could make my firepower count before he could sweep through all of my weak elements and leave the blocks isolated:

Image

Despite me having +1, he grabbed first turn (this is always a big deal in Elf matchups). The following pictures show the start of the game:

Image

Image
The white dice indicate where the front of the Lions are, I did not move them 20" in one turn. It was simply impossible to balance them.

Fast cav moves up with flyers landing in them. Reavers are destroyed on my East but luckily I stop Doombolt so my RBT is fine. His reapers fail to kill any RBTs so T1 isn`t all that bad. I respond by marching Archers and Lions towards the middle and my magical barrage starts, but T1 does little damage with him channelling twice, unfortunately. Shooting is a bit better with a few fast cav disappearing.

Image

Image

He advances very aggressively and kills one of the RBTs with Warlocks. The other 2 survive and my scroll is blown on Black Horror, but I fail to destroy it.

I wheel the Archers up, reform the Lions to threaten his advance and move the closest RBT 5" back to make charges on his part very iffy. Magic rolls up 7v5 and I invoke Forbidden Rod to make the phase 10v5. I go 2D6 Flaming Sword on the Archers and 2D6 Blades of Aiban on the Archers which he lets through, before I finish with a 6D6 IF Withering on his Warlocks + Morathi. I use my staff to ignore the miscast. They have their T reduced by 1. If he had spent dice to stop one of the former spells, I would split the remaining 6D6 between Soulblight and Withering because his scroll was still intact.

Shooting is spectacular as my super-buffed Archers and RBTs manage to kill ALL the Warlocks AND Morathi!!

Image

His Warlocks and BSB move up out of charge range. His magic + shooting destroys the last 2 RBTs. At this point the game is pretty much over: He can`t touch my blocks and I can`t catch him. We thus trade pot-shots off eachother with me claiming his RBTs, Warlocks and L1 (due to miscast) and he brings the Archers down to 8 (1 away from giving up half points).

With my two main units giving up 0 points and the spectacular display of shooting T2, it was a 16-4 win to the High Elves!

// Evaluation //

Pha`s Protection was largely useless. Failing to take Enfeebling + Dwellers meant that he could approach me with little risk and had I not shot him to death, he could`ve hid behind the house and spammed Black Horror for the rest of the game. Thus, I should have taken Banishment, Enfeebling and Dwellers which combined would`ve given me a healthy punch vs him. I`m also unsure of Comet. It`s good for drawing dice but it`s an expensive spell with little flexibility.

Deployment was also a bit of a miss. Vs Dark Elves splitting the RBTs is not that big of a concern: With Valour of Ages it`s more important to consider their threat angles. I think that in a matchup like this it might be best to screen them with WL to provide cover and thus ensure an advantage in the early turns shooting duel. In this game I got to pick sides and I realized when I was about to place the RBTs that the other side would`ve been superior.

A few important lessons learned. Getting to know Teclis and this defensive list more and more ;)

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:21 am 
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After going through all of the lists, here are in my opinion some of the best for an all comers environment. Are you planning on going through all of them and assigning a -2 through to +2?

Herald of Tzeentch, lvl 2, metal, 125
Herald of Tzeentch, lvl 2, metal, 125
10 Horrors, 130
10 Horrors, 130
10 Horrors, 130
10 Horrors, 130
1 Beast of Nurgle, 60
6 Beasts of Nurgle, 360
6 Beasts of Nurgle, 360
3 Plague Drones, plague probosics, 180
1 Skullcannon, 135
1 Skullcannon, 135
Total: 2000

1 Herald of Tzeentch, general, lvl 2 upgrade, lore of Tzeentch, 125
1 Herald of Tzeentch, lvl 2 upgrade, lore of Metal, 125
10 Pink Horrors, 130
10 Pink Horrors, 130
10 Pink Horrors, 130
10 Pink Horrors, 130
6 Beasts of Nurgle, 360
6 Beasts of Nurgle, 360
1 Beast of Nurgle, 60
3 Plague Drones, Plague Proboscis, 180
1 Skull Cannon, 135
1 Skull Cannon, 135
Total: 2000

Both Daemon lists are pretty much identical. Double cannon of skill and double 6 beasts is horrible and gateway spam just adds to the threats.

Dreadlord on Dark steed, general, sea dragon cloak, enchanted shield, giant blade, dawnstone 258
Supreme sorceress on Dark steed, level 4, lore of life 240
Master on Dark steed, BSB, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, shield, lance 123
Master on Dark steed, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, shield, lance, Other Trickster's shard 113
Master on Dark steed, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, shield, lance, Ring of hotek 148
Master on Dark steed, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, shield, Sword of might 112
19 Dark riders, FCG, shields, 353
5 Dark riders, shields 85
5 Dark riders, shields 85
5 harpies 75
Reaper Bolt Thrower 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower 70
5 Doomfire warlocks 125
Total: 1997

S7 Dreadlord in a massive bus that can cast regen or flesh to stone on itself and has lots of fast moving chaff. Lets not forget Dwellers. Personally I would have dropped one master for a second unit of brolocks but that is just me.

Battle Wizard Lord, warhorse, general, lvl 4, lore of life, dispel scroll, crown of command, dragonbane gem, 283 pts
Captain of the Empire, warhorse, battle standard bearer, full plate, barding, charmed shield, dawnstone, biting blade, 147 pts
13 Knightly Order, inner circle, fcg, standard of discipline, 370 pts
6 Knightly Order, 132 pts
5 Demigryph Knights, musician, banner, gleaming pennant, 315 pts
4 Demigryph Knights, musician, banner, 252 pts
Steam Tank, 250 pts
Steam Tank, 250 pts
Totalt: 1999 pts

Wall of 1+ armour and steam tanks that you can regrow. Nothing else needs to be said really.

Slaughtermaster , lvl 4, fencer's blades, dispell scroll, talisman of endurance, ironcurse icon, 380 pts
Bruiser, bsb, Rune Maw, Great weapon 201 pts
Firebelly, x-hand weapon, hellheart, 172 pts
8 ironguts, full command, standard of dicipline, 389 pts
3 Ogers, x-handweapon, musician, standarbearer, 113pts
4 mournfang cavalry, hvy armor, ironfist, standar bearer, dragonhide banner, 340 pts
Sabertusks ,21 pts
Sabertusks , 21 pts
Sabertusks , 21 pts
ironblaster 170 pts
ironblasster 170pts
total: 1998

Scroll, Hellheart and Rune Maw plus double Ironblaster.


Total: 1999

Liche High Priest: Hierophant, Magic level 4, Lore of Nehekhara, Dispell scroll, Ruby Ring of Ruin, 260 pts
Liche High Priest: General, Magic level 4, Lore of Death, Power Stone, 230 pts
25 Skeleton Archers: Champion, musician, 170 pts
10 Skeleton Archers: 60 pts
10 Skeleton Archers: 60 pts
5 Skeleton Horse Archers: Champion, 80 pts
5 Skeleton Horse Archers: 70 pts
5 Skeleton Horse Archers: 70 pts
5 Skeleton Horse Archers: 70 pts
Khemrian Warsphinx: Fiery Roar, 230 pts
Khemrian Warsphinx: Fiery Roar, 230 pts
Khemrian Warsphinx: Fiery Roar, 230 pts
Casket of Souls: 135 pts
Necrosphinx: 225 pts
Screaming Skull Catapult: 90 pts
Screaming Skull Catapult: 90 pts

Powerful magic, lots of scouting fast cav chaff and 4 monsters makes this a very good tomb king list.

Daemon Prince: General, Daemon of Nurgle, Lvl 4 Wizard Lore of Death, Chaos Armour, Scaled Skin, Charmed Shield, Daemonic Flight, Dragonbane Gem, Soulfeeder, The Other Trickster’s Shard - 500
Exhalted Hero on Daemonic Mount w/ Barding: Battle Standard Bearer, Mark of Tzeentch, Talisman of Preservation, Third Eye of Tzeentch, Great Weapon - 256
3 Skullcrushers of Khorne: Ensorcelled Weapons - 234
3 Skullcrushers of Khorne: Ensorcelled Weapons - 234
Chimera: Regenerating Flesh, Flaming Breath - 275
Chaos Chariot: Mark of Nurgle - 125
Chaos Chariot: Mark of Nurgle - 125
Chaos Chariot: Mark of Nurgle - 125
Chaos Chariot: Mark of Nurgle - 125
Total: 1999

Typical WoC list with 9 combat threats pushing forward straight towards you.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:49 am 
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nice game.

one thing I missed when playing with teclis was a good magic missile, is there anything to be said for swapping flaming sword for fireball?

flaming sword is epic though!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:53 pm 
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Should Dark Reaper just have hidden Morathi Curu? Was there a safer way for her to approach? The list seems decent to me though I'm not sure what the chariots are adding. The bus in the other list looks scary but Dwellers and maybe FT are an issue because there aren't many secure options for the characters outside the bus. Also, is the 4+ of Dark Riders enough? I've found Wild Riders die very quickly at times. Dwellers is a threat to Teclis here but PD and Destroy Scroll should give him the edge. Savage Beast as a defence here was mentioned?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:02 pm 
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@sandstorm - I don`t have time to rate them all. I`m not familiar enough with a no-comp setting to give a proper evaluation, either. I do agree that your selected few look very strong, with the exception of some (I think WoC and EMP are too one-dimensional and are bound to run into tough matchups).

@sparkytrypod - I think Banishment is easily the best magic missile vs Dark Elves. Fireball is also handy, but as long as I expect the Archers to be important Flaming Sword is a much more dangerous spell: Since I can cast it on 2D6 you get more mileage out of the phase as well.

@SpellArcher - Good questions - very timely! I discussed this with him after the match, and long story short Dark Elves can approach this in 3 different ways: You can go gung-ho style all-in with deploying the Darkshards opposite the Archers with Harpies and Chariots supporting and, if needed, chaffing the Lions, you can go refused on the other flank and play defensively or you can try a sweeping manoeuvre. I think Dark Reaper deployed like the the 2nd alternative but played like the 3rd: Given the strategy he chose (sweeping wide) I think the Darkshards should`ve had a more commanding position in the center. This would allow him a safe haven to land in as well, at a comfortable distance (with 2 harpy units in reserve and the L1 as a throw-away it is impossible for the Lions to push regardless of what I do).

The problem however is that we want to evaluate NM play here and you don`t go to a national championship with the intention of winning 12-8 ;) At least I don`t expect people to and I will do what I can to score big wins instead. This necessitates risky play and can swing both ways (see my Indian Summer Game 5 for example). What we discovered in this match is that the mobility of the Dark Elves allows them to push the High Elves hard if the deployment isn`t tight, to the point where they can eradicate all support elements and even threaten the big blocks with Black Horror, Word of Pain and Soulblight (you don`t get BOTWD ward vs Black Horror as per ETC FAQ).

Pushing up like this is risky however because the bunkers are so small and fragile, which this matchup showed very well: Despite suboptimal spells on Teclis I was able to wipe out the fast cav in 2 turns of shooting (even with DE going first). Granted I was lucky (Morathi had taken a wound previously and the Archers did 2 more on her, both of which her 4++ failed to save), but it shows the potential.

To conclude then, I learned that a push like this is nigh on impossible for DE to succeed with -IF- I have the right combination of spells and deploy well. That is a very valuable lesson and one I`m hoping my possible DE opponents @NM don`t know about: As per my Powerplay tactica reasoning a defensive list relies on people over-committing to score big points and this Teclis endeavour is no exception.

Short note on the big DR unit. 4++ is enough because when combat starts your entire front rank will consist of hard-as-nails characters having made way to be a real pain. The problem with these guys for my list in particular is their inherent advantage in terms of speed (casting Dwellers first is a big deal), but also the fact that these guys can actually head-on engage the Lions and possibly win if I`m not careful. Dwellers is indeed disastrous for them, so it`s a dicey list that can easily lose to a single bad matchup - but the same goes for Teclis :D Savage Beast and Scroll of Hoeth do help out indeed, but they can only do so much...

Hoping to have time for at least one more game, but this coming week is quite busy for me, so we`ll see. Will keep you posted, and regardless I`ll evaluate the spells a bit closer in light of recent events ;)

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Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


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