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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:40 pm 
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Well, I'm at re-building phase of my tourney roster and I was considering taking annoited on foot too along with my PG or WL unit.
But still, 300points for 3A S7 without mobility, serious ability of winning CC and LD10 - I'm not convinced. I had an idea to take also a shadow lvl 4 archmage but I don't like spending more than 1/4 points for characters :?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:42 pm 
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@SpellArcher - Thunderstomping is frequently at higher strength values if they have a rider (if they don`t they target the unit regardless). Still, he`s a lot safer defensively than a Prince.

@Galharen - I have long since gone past the point of spending 25% on characters combined ;)

To those of you who are so sceptical to the Anointed: What would you fight this unit with? That`s what it boils down to. How would you approach the PG with this guy?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:54 pm 
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He stacks pretty good with PGs, but also gives a lot to WLs. Ward 6+, ITP (I hate rolling 5,5 for fear/terror/panic test).
I was considering also a build with sword of +3A (the one with no armour save on roll "6" to wound), potions of strength and enchanted shield. Question is what is better, constant 3AS7 or 6AS4 and situationally 6AS7.
PGs and Anny with 2+ ward vs magic are quite reliable too. But there a crown of command seems to be a must.

Or maybe you have some other builds for him?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:04 pm 
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I feel there's no way of getting to an armour save that will make a big difference vs those kind of opponents on a foot character without ruining offense. The Prince has to choose between the true 4++ and the Giant Blade, the Anointed doesn't. With the lvl 2 in the unit it shouldn't be too hard to get to the 3++, which is better than a 1+ RR in the hardest fights.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:05 pm 
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Curu Olannon wrote:
The bowline is meant for singles play. This is a list not meant to push unless I have to (vs dedicated gunlines). I believe I can outshoot Dark Elves and High Elves of all flavours, possibly also WE though the latter depends on build. Anyway we`ll see if I get around to playtesting it. Vs Rats it would do quite well I believe, PG kill Skaven like there`s no tomorrow!

@Ferny - I don`t understand how you can not like him :D Have you played PG a lot against magic-intensive armies like Dark Elves, Orcs, High Elves, Wood Elves? The amount of damage thrown their way just goes up, up, up until they`re dead. Yes, 4++ is nice but it only helps so much. I consider the MR2 mandatory on them unless you center them around a High Magic caster. I`m not looking to put the L2 in here always. At least that`s not my intention.

The role of the Anointed is to make the PG go from a dangerous unit to an impossible unit. Remember that this is a defensive list, my opponent has to push unless he plays a gunline. What units can push and successfully engage this bunker? Lots of units can charge PG, a lot less so with the Anointed around, especially with the AP banner meaning his hits will reduce 1+ to 6+.

Taking MR2 on the Mage necessitates him hiding with the PG. You can`t just hop out before combat either, often you won`t have the chance. Once you`ve committed a character to a unit he tends to have to stay there. Furthermore, said mage will only have a 5++ himself. With my build, he`s usually a 2++ from BOTWD, if he needs to go in the PG it`s because I either draw a scroll (in which case he has 4++) or because I need a high magic buff (in which case he has 3++). BSB with anything but BOTWD is not an option, the item is too good. Besides, 4++ is not enough for a BSB. He needs a proper save or to not be in combat at all. The latter is my intention here.

Alith Anar is not possible. I build lists according to ETC - switching to another comp system is usually easy, the other way around is not. Furthermore SCs are almost always banned here.

If you ditch the Anointed completely I don`t think the list has enough punch to deter a push. Many opponents can simply wade in and have a field day. Not cool.

Quote:
It is possible to make a really nice 'magic denial' list but I don't know if it's worth it. I did build a list with MR3 BoH HighAM to go with sisters and reaver/PoS/ironcurse handmaiden, leaving either MR2/SoM BSB or MR1/scroll (optional high) mage for PG and I filled core with MSU cav which didn't need protection. The biggest weakness here is miscasts, but between low casting values and BoH for high, coupled with shield of saphery and a gentle reminder of the reality of miscasts other races suffer and it doesn't seem to bad.


What other races do is irrelevant. DE have their own miscast protection in the shape of Warlocks having excellent spells and thus taking large amounts of the phase away from the L4. WE have Sisters and High Magic Counters tanking it up. Other races have other means. We have BOTWD. I can do what you said without investing in MR items by simply putting L4 + BSB into Sisters. Added bonus: Sisters don`t care about Hellcannons/Skull Catapults etc. In fact, they don´t care about a lot of things.

The whole list revolves around being defensive enough to force a lot of opponents to push. If it has to push it has certain tools, but this is not its strength. Furthermore the PG need to be strong enough to deter pushers. Whether this holds true remains to be playtested ;)


I maybe haven't experienced the magical assault you have so I don't see MR2 as essential with PG, merely a definitely nice feature.

Thanks for explaining the role of the annointed, I get why you want him now - how you see him fitting in. But I still don't like him :wink: - I think his core attributes can be achieved more cheaply. If we drop Alith for now given your context it means I'm free to think about lord points being reallocated. I think he fits this type of build but it won't fly here.

Noble with Dragon armour, SoM and MR2 for example would still get you 2++ vs magic. What do you lose? 3S7 ASF A become S4 and you lose durability with 2+/2+ becoming just 4+, though you do gain 2++ vs flame. He's more vulnerable but you also don't mind so much if he does die - he's there to support the PG. (Alternative build might be MR1, PoS and SoM so that you don't lose the combat kick round 1, though you do lose a pip of MR). Se he's less of a tank and you're down the strength pips. But you also save a good wodge of points. Even if you just re-invest those points into more PG I think its better use of points than the annointed. You could even take them as a small MSU unit as an emergency bunker for mages/good extra option for the high mage/flank chargers. Yeah, they're more vulnerable to stuff, but in theory MSU PG out to be good.

Of course, keeping the BSB with the banner puts other points restrictions in place (no handmaiden or PoS/Reaver). I think it's a fair trade - a shame - but a fair trade. If the anti-push potential of the annointed/PoS noble/MR2 noble weren't so essential then you could save points by having the MR1/scroll high mage in there. He will either be sacrificial or have to jump ship...but if your annointed is pretty much camped there then you're not losing any additional flexibility which your list would have had. (Same goes with my noble alternative - their camp site is the PG unit).

I think this comes down to character (and support) vs troop numbers preference/playstyle to a certain extent. I admit I'm by default a troops rather than combat characters kind of player, but much as I like him I think he's too expensive for what he does. Or rather, he's reasonably well costed but the synergy isn't quite on the nose enough to make the huge points investment worth it for me. I think noble+morePG would be at least equivalent punch to prevent the push steamrolling.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:23 pm 
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Galharen wrote:
He stacks pretty good with PGs, but also gives a lot to WLs. Ward 6+, ITP (I hate rolling 5,5 for fear/terror/panic test).
I was considering also a build with sword of +3A (the one with no armour save on roll "6" to wound), potions of strength and enchanted shield. Question is what is better, constant 3AS7 or 6AS4 and situationally 6AS7.
PGs and Anny with 2+ ward vs magic are quite reliable too. But there a crown of command seems to be a must.

Or maybe you have some other builds for him?


True, Anointed is good with WL. Problem is, WL are bad ;) PG just don`t lose combat except for the worst deathstars which can usually be taken care of in other ways.

@SpellArcher - true. High Magic provides flexibility here.

@Ferny - There are so many things in this game that`ll whittle PG down slowly but surely. MR2 helps immensely in this regard. I have multiple reports where this have been/would have been a problem. 4++ only goes so far.

The main attribute of the Anointed is to make the unit downright fearsome. Take Demigryphs for example, without the Anointed a decently sized unit can charge in and expect, at least, to hold. With the Anointed they lose combat and are suddenly facing a break test, potentially minus a lot. Other examples include Chimerae, Skullcrushers, DE Peg-characters (enough of these can stall and grind PG, not so much with the Anointed around), High Elf character-busses without BOTWD, Daemons Rot Flies... The list goes on. True, a Prince will fulfil the same role, but he doesn`t have the same innate protection (nor can he get close to 3+/3+/4++ regardless) nor can can he make way to the flanks if need be. Furthermore, if you take the Prince with MR2, Shield, Giant Blade and Dragon Armour, what do you do if someone throws D&D on the PG? Risk them panicking on LD6 (D&D followed by Hellcannon)? What about Caress of Laniph, or even worse (though rare), Fate of Bjuna?

A Noble achieves the MR2 effect, but fails to provide a significant threat otherwise against the targets above for example. I took such a setup to my last tournament and was pleased with the protection he brought, however even a Loremaster doesn`t provide enough mmph to make the unit truly fearsome. It can work in a different context, for example when running a cavbus alongside it, but not as a deterrent.

It`s all about the concept. Perhaps it is flawed, perhaps PG aren`t strong enough regardless. In any case, the offensive difference between a Prince and an Anointed will not be the difference here.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:20 pm 
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2 games tonight: TK Coven of Light (S8 Banishment, Mighty Scrolls, Tomb Guard Horde + double catapult) and a wacky DE-list (double Witchelves with cauldrons (yes, 2 cauldrons) and a knightbus. Reports will come tomorrow. For now, here are deployment photos:

Image

Image

Predictions? :) ETC comp for both games.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:47 am 
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predictions....smashed the tomb kings and a 12-8 win v DE!!

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:09 am 
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I predict the following(without understanding ETC comp):
TK - Many lost knights to killing blow. I will predict the phoenix will do well. If it's a win, perhaps a close one?

DE - stupid 5++ ward cauldrons will cause troubles. Provided charge clockers work (doesn't look like there's much shooting to take them out), then the left flank may be well demolished, allowing for a nice, chunky flanking. I predict a win to the high elves.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:31 am 
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@sparkytrypod - You don`t have much faith in the cheesekings. Have you played against S8 Banishment with Mighty Scroll before?

@NexS - The TL;DR version is that hills and buildings block LoS completely and you cannot cast spells with more than 5PD. It also places restrictions on the lists and grants LoS vs things like Dwellers (up to 2 characters) but neither are relevant for this game (seeing as the lists are already written prior to playing).

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:05 pm 
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No, I have only seen a tomb king army once at a tournament in Ireland the last 3 years! What does the scroll so?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:05 pm 
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sparkytrypod wrote:
No, I have only seen a tomb king army once at a tournament in Ireland the last 3 years! What does the scroll so?


You add as many extra dice as you have Wizard levels to a single cast. If these dice score a double, you get IF (and miscast). You need to spend at least 1PD from the pool and you need to have the "natural" PD score 3+ to get the spell off (Not Enough Power rule).

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:45 pm 
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ouch, 2 banishments for the dragon unless you can bumrush in for combat turn 2.

first turn & spell selection be big here, apotheosis & WBW make things easier.

if he doesn't IF one of them you scroll it and start to munch in combat and heal up with apotheosis.

still calling it a win for the elves...!

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:29 pm 
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Short report vs Kight Coven TK. I have never played this matchup before but S8 sure looks nasty. The upside is that he commits very fast and Banishment is a magic missile - not direct damage - so hiding flyers should be possible from the start.

.::. Battle Report - 2400 vs Tomb Kings (ETC comp) .::.

My list:
Quote:
Prince on Star Dragon: Dragonhelm, Star Lance, Crown of Atrazar, The Other Trickster`s Shard, Shield = 598
Noble BSB on Barded Steed, Banner of the World Dragon, Heavy armour, Shield, Lance = 172
Noble on Barded Steed, Enchanted Shield, Heavy Armour, Ogre Blade = 134
Mage L2 on Steed, Scroll = 155
Mage L2 on Steed, Ironcurse Icon = 135
Heroes = 596, Characters = 1194

16 Silver Helms, Full Command & Shields = 398
5 Ellyrian Reavers = 80
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Bows (swap) = 85
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Champion = 90
Core = 653

3x1 Repeater Bolt Thrower = 210
Frostheart Phoenix = 240
2x1 Great Eagle = 100
Rare = 550

Army total = 2397


His list:
Quote:
Level 4 light, Neferra's Scrolls of Mighty Incantations =260
Level 4 Nehekara, Scepter = 225
Level 1 light, dispel scroll = 95
Level 1 light, Scroll of Shielding = 85
Level 1 light = 70
Level 1 light = 70

5 horse archers = 70
5 horse archers = 70
5 horse archers = 70
5 horse archers = 70
5 horse archers = 70
10 skeleton archers = 60
10 skeleton archers = 60
32 skeleton archers; fc = 222

36 Tomb Guards; Halberds, FC, Razor Standard = 543
3 Stalkers = 165

Hierotitan = 175
Casket of souls = 135
Skullhapult = 90
Skullhapult = 90

== 2700 ==


I got Walk, Apotheosis, Fiery Convocation and Tempest. My plan here was to have the bus try and cast fiery on his main bunker and clear the horse archers and make a late-game assault if possible. RBTs would be tasked with clearing chaff and then moving onto Casket.

The following pictures show deployment and turns 1 through 4:

Image

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Image

Image

I was very happy with deployment. RBTs had dominating positions, flyers were hidden, I could move and threaten him early on. Despite him having +1 I grabbed first turn and moved up. Magic was 5vX, I IF`d Fiery on his bunker and lost the spell in the process. Damage done, however. Shooting cleared lots of chaff. His T1 saw his mages retreat to other bunkers and he tightened his formation. He left the bunker for dead in the magic phase which saw him get off tons of spells, though apart from DT on the bus not much of it made a difference. I continued clearing chaff until I had a commanding position and then I moved up with everything. At this point he had nothing left to block me out with. He used Mighty Scroll but I was very lucky as he scored no doubles and I scrolled it. Catapults dealt 4W to Phoenix and 1W to the Dragon. I healed the Phoenix (IF Apotheosis, lost this spell as well) back up but I failed both charges (one needing 5+, other 6+ on swiftstride) and this left the flyers out yet another turn in the open (this is the last picture shown above).

After this he killed the Phoenix with Banishment and landed a hit on the Dragon... Only to randomize the Prince! Fireward kept him safe. Turn 5 then the Dragon went into the Tomb Guard alone and bus moved up. RBTs pinged his Casket and this deal some wounds in his back lines. Dragon proceeded to do what the Dragon does best and completely annihilated the Tomb Guard. The Prince died in the process but it was well worth the points. In the last turn of the game he blocked my bus with a single mage. I charged the BSB past into his bunker with an Eagle flanking it, but couldn`t get enough combat res to kill them all off. The very last shooting phase of the same his remaining catapult target the SD (down to 4W), hit it... And fail to wound! This meant it was a big win for the High Elves as he had taken brutal losses when I finally hit home, counting up points it was an 18-2 win!

// Evaluation //

I was very lucky this game on multiple occasions: During crucial magic phases for him I frequently had 5-6DD, which is the worst for TK. With casket and so many channels TK really thrive on low-winds phases. With many dice I could almost always stop one crucial spell, which really limited his options despite a huge magical barrage (seriously, TK magic is scary). When I finally did push, his Scroll didn`t give him his needed doubles. His catapults weren`t exactly spectacular either, randomizing onto the Prince once or twice, missing multiple times and in the end failing to wound me when wounding would mean 50-50 for me going down.

The saving grace in this matchup is his few drops. I can position everything perfectly to counter him and I managed this very well this game. Coupled with a very strong early game (removing almost all horse archers without effort and nuking down his bunker) this set up for a good charge mid-game, which secured me a huge win with a little luck. Overall I think it`s a neutral matchup that can easily go big both ways. As such I was happy to get the result I did.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:32 pm 
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Game #2 from yesterday, vs DE.

.::. Battle Report - 2400 vs Dark Elves (ETC comp) .::.

My list:
Quote:
Prince on Star Dragon: Dragonhelm, Star Lance, Crown of Atrazar, The Other Trickster`s Shard, Shield = 598
Noble BSB on Barded Steed, Banner of the World Dragon, Heavy armour, Shield, Lance = 172
Noble on Barded Steed, Enchanted Shield, Heavy Armour, Ogre Blade = 134
Mage L2 on Steed, Scroll = 155
Mage L2 on Steed, Ironcurse Icon = 135
Heroes = 596, Characters = 1194

16 Silver Helms, Full Command & Shields = 398
5 Ellyrian Reavers = 80
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Bows (swap) = 85
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Champion = 90
Core = 653

3x1 Repeater Bolt Thrower = 210
Frostheart Phoenix = 240
2x1 Great Eagle = 100
Rare = 550

Army total = 2397


His list:
Quote:
Dread Lord, Dark steed, Enchanted shield, Sea dragon cloak, Lance, Cloak of twilight.

Death hag, BSB, Cauldron of blood
Death hag, Cauldron of blood

28 Witch Elves, Standard, musician
27 Witch Elves, Standard, musician

5 Shades
5 Shades
5 Shades
13 Cold one knights, FC, Razor standard.

5 Warlocks
5 Warlocks


I got Walk, Tempest, Arcane, Soul Quench.

The following pictures show deployment and turns 1 through 4:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

I was lucky and grabbed first turn. This allowed me to neutralize Shades and seize the initiative with the monsters on the flank. Deployment was good but I should`ve had 2 chaff units near the bus. Having the bus on the flank with the monsters is excellent as it allows me to bring all of my power to bear at one isolated element at a time.

Getting to the first unit of Witchelves was harder than I thought it would be, largely because I lacked chaff on that flank. Furthermore the Western Warlocks were a pain. In the end the monsters went in alone. The Phoenix was lucky not to go down in 2 rounds of combat (lacking Apotheosis is really a pain in this matchup but I didn`t roll it nor any doubles) but in the end the bus could go into the combat as well, sealing the deal. I spent a lot of time charge-blocking him this game and at one point his Lord solo-charged out and I fled through my own unit. This allowed RBTs to single-bolt him down (somewhat lucky as he had 3++ but he had taken 1W from DT early on).

After the last photo I got the Warlocks and left the last WE alone. His CoK killed 2 RBTs and were 1 elf away from giving up points.

Tallying up, I was ahead but didn`t know how much. I had taken ~1400 VP from him, he had taken ~700 from me, which means a 14-6 victory to the High Elves!

// Evaluation //

Getting first turn was particularly lucky as it allowed me to completely decimate his Shades before they could make an impact. However, 5 Shades only average 2W on T3 5+ Elves, so he would`ve taken some chaff but in return I`d still have killed him, failed panic tests aside (re-roll vs DE). This matchup is good for me, which is interesting seeing as it`s good against virtually all other flavours of High Elves. Having the upper hand certainly is a change vs DE.

Before the game I`d have thought it would be possible to lock down the CoK somewhat, they are easy points for my monsters. However the way he deploys means that I`m effectively risking my bus to go after them, which quite frankly isn`t worth it. With chaff on the West however I might`ve been able to block the WE and combo them sooner with possibly the Frost surviving as well.

Gamey moves in this match: Blocking on the corner to force 90 degree wheels and overruns, conga-lining to avoid march tests, conga-lining to gain inches. Nothing too significant, but powerful moves none-the-less.

I need to solve the Dragon-challenge problem. I`m contemplating changing 3 units of Reavers for 1 unit of Reavers and 1 Helmdart instead, but that means losing 1.5 chaff units which I`m really unsure how will play out. More musings needed ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:07 pm 
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boom, called it!

DE game seems way more fun, lots going on in the movement phase and the set up from both sides which is where the fun is, not just sitting waiting like the tomb kings in the first game! risky enough sending the phoenix against all those witch attacks but it paid off.

good wins.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:08 pm 
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Reports vs gunlines are almost inevitably boring because the optimal move is almost always easy to see. Regardless, playing them is essential to knowing when to take or not take the jump risk and how best to approach it, irking out small mistakes to make you as prepared as possible for a tournament setting.

DE game was a lot of fun. The Phoenix going into the Witchelves was a gamble, doubly so because he had superfrenzy off (I was facing 24 attacks with poison and re-rolls to wound...). I failed to dispel it but I felt I couldn`t wait any longer. Witchelves are scary, man. At least multiple big, hard-hitting units from HE can make them suffer. It`s one of the few things we have that is good against these types of DE armies. Consider a traditional HE army, he can just point, click and win big. DE are too strong, I have no idea why they continue making that faction so ridiculously powerful and flexible.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:01 pm 
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Good games Curu!
The LoS blocking hills was really bad for the TK and probably nullified much of his purpose.

The dark elf game was very interesting! The conga line cold ones was a strange decision and the eagles countered that nicely.
However, I am a bit confused as to why you didn't use the witches frenzy against them. Ie: charge>overrun>tasty flank charge from the knights, which could have overrun you into the other unit of witches. You still had the eagle on the side to block the charge from the knights if you didn't break through.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:07 am 
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Stuff blocking LoS is in my opinion a necessity for playing a Dragon. There are too many things out there that you simply cannot face for 6 turns. Besides, Simple Line of Sight avoids discussions of 50% seeing as everything is based on rules, not models.

Congalining Cold Ones was anticipated seeing as he was looking to put pressure on my bus, which is basically his only chance for scoring big points. Reavers indeed took care of this ;)

Using Witches Frenzy against them? Long story short, it won`t work. There`s the Terror test from the Cauldron which is really iffy @LD8 and I can`t keep neither BSB nor Lord close enough. Thus he might get a pursuit into catch => free reform. Not good. Furthermore, he doesn`t have to charge and holding back with LD10 re-roll is easy. Again though, things like this would be easier with chaff near the bus, but Warlocks make my life a pain and I needed non-committal drops to force out his towers before plugging down the bus.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:54 am 
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Yep the star dragon is certainly a dicey fight against the beasts and using it hold them is certainly a better option than trying to grind them down (doing the latter means you HAVE to cast apotheosis each turn). The frosty allowing the dragon a 3+ save should help a fair bit though, takes the wounds per turn from the beasts down into the 1-2 range rather than 2-3.

If beasts are one of the most broken things in the game isn’t it worth tailoring just a little bit to deal with them? You could even try putting a luck stone on the ogre blade noble. He wouldn’t last nearly as long as the dawnstone version but wouldn’t compromise the hitting power in any other matchup and could be a used as a last ditch time buyer once you run out of eagles. I really don’t understand why you think beasts are so bad, a fair few units can beat them point for point (1+ armour being a key contributing factor). Granted only a few specific things in the high elf list deal with them but that just means they are hard for us as opposed to be utterly broken.

Phoenix guard are great, but why would the skaven ever fight them, they have 15 point chaff units that can hide within other units to avoid being shot, and if you charge their lines with anything else to try and disrupt this even a bit its giving them points. Its also one thirteenth away from disaster, but I guess ETC greatly reduces the threat of this.

I am rather jealous that your standard for games is the ETC line of sight. I would love to run a star dragon myself, but true LOS and no comp makes it too matchup dependant.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:36 pm 
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Beasts are not worth tailoring against. i have the tools to deal with them, as explained above my failure to do so in this game was what cost me a win ;)

As for Skaven, it`s a tough fight for pretty much any HE configuration apart from the Deathtrain which is a favourite to win this matchup. As such, a list`s performance against them doesn`t concern me too much.

SLoS is indeed a godsend. I pity you all having to play TLoS. Hopefully the next edition will go back to a model-agnostic system ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:59 am 
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2 great games, nice to see you wracking through tombkings. And allways a joy too see dark elves bite the dust.

Back to the Anointed, Ive been fielding him with a completly different setup. Along side allarielle so only 40p in magic items, so I took Khains Ring, charmed shield and golden crown. Ive used him with a large unit of Sisters, so his role is apart from 4++ (3++) vs magic and ItP, is to counter Peg nobles, Warriors on DM and other fast unkillable heroes/lords. Ive yet to see him in action as the mere presence of him have turned my opponents attention else were. ItP is just heaven sent, on a expensive shooter unit like sisters, having reavers fleeing thought them without a worry gives a very stabel gunline.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:09 am 
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Curu Olannon wrote:
Stuff blocking LoS is in my opinion a necessity for playing a Dragon. There are too many things out there that you simply cannot face for 6 turns. Besides, Simple Line of Sight avoids discussions of 50% seeing as everything is based on rules, not models.

Congalining Cold Ones was anticipated seeing as he was looking to put pressure on my bus, which is basically his only chance for scoring big points. Reavers indeed took care of this ;)

Using Witches Frenzy against them? Long story short, it won`t work. There`s the Terror test from the Cauldron which is really iffy @LD8 and I can`t keep neither BSB nor Lord close enough. Thus he might get a pursuit into catch => free reform. Not good. Furthermore, he doesn`t have to charge and holding back with LD10 re-roll is easy. Again though, things like this would be easier with chaff near the bus, but Warlocks make my life a pain and I needed non-committal drops to force out his towers before plugging down the bus.

You're saying you wouldn't want to take a chance at failing a LD8 panic test? Even though we reroll panic tests against dark elves? I think you would have been fine :)

I'm really not sure how congalining the cold ones would have done anything but take up space for him. Sure, he could make sure that the single bolt bolt throwers pointless, but they were on the wrong side of his army to block any charges. Maybe i'm missing the point completely!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:07 am 
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@Browncastle - The Anointed is a very expensive solution if all he does is keep Sisters alive. Playing with Allarielle is reserved for uncomped tournaments, so most of the time that won`t work for me.

@NexS - High Elves re-roll panic tests. Great Eagles, Dragons and Phoenixes don`t. Likewise, Dark Elves don`t have hatred towards these. An LD8 panic test without re-rolls is very, very risky. Even with the re-roll it`s a dodgy prospect.

Congalining Cold Ones helped him gain 6" towards my bus. He wanted to push me hard. When I parked Reavers in front of him that didn`t help much and with the Reavers charging and surviving from the rear as well, he was just stuck for too long.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:40 am 
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Curu Olannon wrote:
NexS - High Elves re-roll panic tests. Great Eagles, Dragons and Phoenixes don`t. Likewise, Dark Elves don`t have hatred towards these. An LD8 panic test without re-rolls is very, very risky. Even with the re-roll it`s a dodgy prospect.


Really? Is there something I can reference to confirm this? I just assumed Dark Elves had hatred against all our units. Makes my list with 3 phoenixes much stronger against them then I first thought.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:06 am 
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Yess he is very expensive, but keeping a large unit of sisters shooting for 6 turns, is doing severe damage. And Its 250points of point denial, a frosty could be shoot out of the air in so many matchups Ive seen lately, and a hidding a frosty isnt giving wards and ItP. In my games so forth they have cleared their flank every time. Helped by being my last drop before characters. He combines really well with Allarielle, as they make 3++ vs magic, with a possibility of 2++, so khains ring becomes a priority to dispel. But I could see him work along side a LVL4 also, wish will free up points to get him more killy. But his jobb isnt only to guard the sisters, late turns his jobb changes to be a tank in lions. I guess my position on this build, will change as I get to see it being broken down by more experienced players.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:51 am 
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@NexS - Yes. Great eagles are not high elves, neither are phoenixes. The rules are quite clear, just check the books ;)

@Browncastle - We will see how he works out over time. Will you bring the anointed to invasion?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:11 pm 
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Possible list change I`ve been contemplating for the past week or so: While I thoroughly enjoy playing 5 chaff units, I frequently seem to be unable to provide the Prince with his Challenge-eating Champ`d up Reavers. This could be me forgetting about their role and deploying them poorly, their timespan being relatively short or a mix of both. TL;DR - I`m considering losing 2 units of Reavers for one unit of Helms with a Champion. I`ll probably give this a try, if nothing else to see how it plays. Revised list:

Quote:
Prince on Star Dragon: Dragonhelm, Star Lance, Crown of Atrazar, The Other Trickster`s Shard, Shield = 598
Noble BSB on Barded Steed, Banner of the World Dragon, Heavy armour, Shield, Lance = 172
Noble on Barded Steed, Enchanted Shield, Heavy Armour, Ogre Blade = 134
Mage L2 on Steed, Scroll = 155
Mage L2 on Steed, Ironcurse Icon = 135
Heroes = 596, Characters = 1194

17 Silver Helms, Full Command & Shields = 421
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Bows, Champion = 95
5 Silver Helms, Shields, Champion, Musician = 135
Core = 651

3x1 Repeater Bolt Thrower = 210
Frostheart Phoenix = 240
2x1 Great Eagle = 100
Rare = 550

Army total = 2395

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:22 pm 
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That's fair, and in the end you did quite well :)
P.s. I'm not sure you were talking to me in the post above :P

Even without hatred, they're getting rerolls anyway for asf + initiative. But yes, I can see your concern. Although swiftstride could theoretically get you far enough away, you may not want to take that chance which is a fair call

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:34 pm 
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Curu Olannon wrote:
Great Eagles, Dragons and Phoenixes don`t. Likewise, Dark Elves don`t have hatred towards these


That might be the ETC ruling, but it absolutely is not a universally applied interpretation of the rules - it crops up on the rules forum every so often without resolution. End of the day, if you're playing vs dark elves, confirm that before you start rolling dice!

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