NM - Lessons learned
Counting up I ended on 3. place out of 72. I faced four armies that I had the tools to handle, and one oddball that chrushed me. I might have been able to handle that one with more luck and a less able opponent, but a win would just have led me onto the claws of the winning daemon player, and I have a fair idea how that would have gone down. I also managed to just miss playing the "all etheral" army.
The army build performed spectacularly well, and was able to handle almost anything, both offensively and defensively, in all 21 games up to and including the tournament. Before the tournament I had two draws vs mixed Orcs and Goblins, and two total losses vs fully tooled dark elves. The rest were wins of some sort.
Actually, at 2000 pts I don't see anything I want to change in this list. It's pretty well rounded.
So, did I learn anything?
- Play the same list again and again 'till I'm familiar with it.
- Play all types of opposing armies for experience.
- Playing ogres the same way as wood elves, with mobile shooting works pretty well. What most people don't realize is that all ogre shooting also can fight.
-Ogre magic have limited range. That leads to quite a few wasted magic phases. Still, it's often worth it staying out of HtH until the charges have been set up favorably.
Rusty's Wolfen of Vile-Tis (OK++ blog)
Moderators: The Heralds, The Loremasters
Re: Rusty's Wolfen of Vile-Tis (OK++ blog)
Army blog: http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=43579
Re: Rusty's Wolfen of Vile-Tis (OK++ blog)
#24 Tyrant vs Dark Reaper's Ward saves of Tzeentch (with fan club)
After last week's learning experience we planned a rematch. This time the ETC WoC restrictions had arrived, and they must have been watching our game when making notes.
Hate it or loathe it, here's the WoC restrictions draft:
Core Chaos chariots, Marauder Horsemen, Warhounds are each 0-3
Hell Cannon 0-1
Skullcrushers max 6 models.
Talisman of Preservation/Armour of Destiny/Third eye of Tzeentch, max 1 on same model.
A Daemon Prince model can have max 2 of Scaly skin/Soul feeder/Chaos armour/Mark of Nurgle
Flyers max 4, models with the regenerating flesh upgrade count as 2.
This forced Dark Reaper to adjust his army somewhat, and he chose a different setup. One anti-deathstar lord on disc and a large unit of Dragon ogres replaced his daemon prince and one chimera.
WoC
Chaos Lord 395pts
Mark of Tzeentch
Disc of Tzeentch
Shield
Sword of Anti-Heroes
Helm of Many-Eyes
Talisman of Preservation
Soul Feeder
Flaming Breath
Exalted Hero 271pts
Mark of Tzeentch
Daemonic Mount w/barding
Heavy Armour w/4+ward
Great Weapon
Scaled Skin
BSB
Sorcerer 180pts
Lvl2
Dispel Scroll
Enchanted Shield
Ironcurse Icon
Lore of Shadows
18xChaos Warriors w/Shield 351pts
Mark of Nurgle
Full Command
Banner of Swiftness
Chariot w/Mark of Khorne 120pts
Chariot w/Mark of Khorne 120pts
Warhounds 30pts
Warhounds 30pts
Chimera 275pts
Regen
Flamebreath
6xDragon Ogres 418pts
Shartak
Great Weapons
Hellcannon 210pts
I also adjusted my army list based on the feedback here. I went for two units of 3 mournfangs. They hit hard and can be sacrificed if need be. I also set up the Tyrant to survive and destroy hard tough targets. The firebelly got dispel scroll and ruby ring for a balanced approach. I reasoned that the Hellheart could work wonders sometimes, but might not. Finally, I used two small units of ogres and one medium unit of ironguts for core. This gave me an almost MSU army, but with one strong M7 deathstar in the centre. The number of drops should allow me to outdeploy many armies, while my units are sufficiently compact to unite on enemy units.
OK#10
+ Lords + (317pts)
* Tyrant (317pts)
Great Weapon (12pts)
Glittering Scales Talisman of Preservation, Giantbreaker
+ Heroes + (398pts)
* Bruiser (191pts)
Battle Standard Bearer , Great Weapon
Armour of Destiny
* Firebelly (207pts)
Additional Hand WeaponWizard Level 2
Dispel Scroll - Ruby Ring of Ruin
+ Core + (614pts)
* 7 Ironguts (346pts)
Full command
Banner of Swiftness
* 4x Ogres (134pts)
Bellower, Additional Hand Weapon
* 4x Ogres (134pts)
Bellower, Additional Hand Weapon
+ Special + (900pts)
* 6 Maneaters (397pts)
Bellower, standard. Poisoned Attacks, Scouts
Gleaming Pennant
* 3 Mournfang Cavalry (220pts)
Bellower
Heavy Armour, Ironfists
* 3 Mournfang Cavalry (220pts)
Bellower
Heavy Armour, Ironfists
*3x1 Sabretusk (21 pts)
+ Rare + (170pts)
* Ironblaster (170pts)
After last week's learning experience we planned a rematch. This time the ETC WoC restrictions had arrived, and they must have been watching our game when making notes.
Hate it or loathe it, here's the WoC restrictions draft:
Core Chaos chariots, Marauder Horsemen, Warhounds are each 0-3
Hell Cannon 0-1
Skullcrushers max 6 models.
Talisman of Preservation/Armour of Destiny/Third eye of Tzeentch, max 1 on same model.
A Daemon Prince model can have max 2 of Scaly skin/Soul feeder/Chaos armour/Mark of Nurgle
Flyers max 4, models with the regenerating flesh upgrade count as 2.
This forced Dark Reaper to adjust his army somewhat, and he chose a different setup. One anti-deathstar lord on disc and a large unit of Dragon ogres replaced his daemon prince and one chimera.
WoC
Chaos Lord 395pts
Mark of Tzeentch
Disc of Tzeentch
Shield
Sword of Anti-Heroes
Helm of Many-Eyes
Talisman of Preservation
Soul Feeder
Flaming Breath
Exalted Hero 271pts
Mark of Tzeentch
Daemonic Mount w/barding
Heavy Armour w/4+ward
Great Weapon
Scaled Skin
BSB
Sorcerer 180pts
Lvl2
Dispel Scroll
Enchanted Shield
Ironcurse Icon
Lore of Shadows
18xChaos Warriors w/Shield 351pts
Mark of Nurgle
Full Command
Banner of Swiftness
Chariot w/Mark of Khorne 120pts
Chariot w/Mark of Khorne 120pts
Warhounds 30pts
Warhounds 30pts
Chimera 275pts
Regen
Flamebreath
6xDragon Ogres 418pts
Shartak
Great Weapons
Hellcannon 210pts
I also adjusted my army list based on the feedback here. I went for two units of 3 mournfangs. They hit hard and can be sacrificed if need be. I also set up the Tyrant to survive and destroy hard tough targets. The firebelly got dispel scroll and ruby ring for a balanced approach. I reasoned that the Hellheart could work wonders sometimes, but might not. Finally, I used two small units of ogres and one medium unit of ironguts for core. This gave me an almost MSU army, but with one strong M7 deathstar in the centre. The number of drops should allow me to outdeploy many armies, while my units are sufficiently compact to unite on enemy units.
OK#10
+ Lords + (317pts)
* Tyrant (317pts)
Great Weapon (12pts)
Glittering Scales Talisman of Preservation, Giantbreaker
+ Heroes + (398pts)
* Bruiser (191pts)
Battle Standard Bearer , Great Weapon
Armour of Destiny
* Firebelly (207pts)
Additional Hand WeaponWizard Level 2
Dispel Scroll - Ruby Ring of Ruin
+ Core + (614pts)
* 7 Ironguts (346pts)
Full command
Banner of Swiftness
* 4x Ogres (134pts)
Bellower, Additional Hand Weapon
* 4x Ogres (134pts)
Bellower, Additional Hand Weapon
+ Special + (900pts)
* 6 Maneaters (397pts)
Bellower, standard. Poisoned Attacks, Scouts
Gleaming Pennant
* 3 Mournfang Cavalry (220pts)
Bellower
Heavy Armour, Ironfists
* 3 Mournfang Cavalry (220pts)
Bellower
Heavy Armour, Ironfists
*3x1 Sabretusk (21 pts)
+ Rare + (170pts)
* Ironblaster (170pts)
Army blog: http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=43579
Re: Rusty's Wolfen of Vile-Tis (OK++ blog)
Small update. Played ogres at Sweden's largest tourney, the SM.
OK#20
Heroes (575pts)
Bruiser (170pts)
General
Great Weapon, Heavy Armour
Ironcurse Icon,Talisman of Preservation
Bruiser (191pts)
Battle Standard Bearer, Great Weapon
Armour of Destiny
Firebelly (214pts)
Great Weapon, Wizard Level 2
Dispel Scroll, Ruby Ring of Ruin
Core (610pts)
10x Gnoblars (25pts)
10x Gnoblars (25pts)
10x Gnoblars (25pts)
9 Ironguts (432pts)
Full command
Standard of Discipline
3 Ogres (103pts)
Bellower
Additional Hand Weapon
Special (871pts)
8 Leadbelchers (364pts)
Bellower, Champion
7 Maneaters (444pts)
Bellower, Poisoned Attacks , Stubborn
Maneaters (62pts)
A Brace of Ogre Pistols, Light Armour
Sabretusk (21pts)
Sabretusk (21pts)
Sabretusk (21pts)
Rare (340pts)
Ironblaster (170 pts)
Ironblaster (170 pts)
Total: 2396 pts
Games:
1. DE. Jonas (53. plass). 8-12
2. EM. Johan (68. plass). 17-3
3. LZ. Martin R. ( 28. plass). 12-8
4. OK. Jonas (72. plass). 16-4
5. DoC. Daniel (43. plass). 18-2
Total score was 4th place. Way above expected, and a lot of fun. That said, I believe their pairing system gave me somewhat of an unfair advantage since non-ranked players were landed in a low group and given shadow points for the first two games of swiss seeding. Idea was good, but it ended up only changing around the hard matchups.
Army is good vs
-Agressive bus-lists
-War machines
Army is weak vs
-Flying heroes
-BS-based shooting
-Magic heavy with lots of damage ??
Lessons learned
-Solid deployment trumps opportunistic placement for possible good first turn shots.
-Optimal theoretical deployment according to figure 1.
-Deployment should be locked almost irrespective of opponent. Although some defensive armies will need to be recognized and planned for in the deployment phase. Flyers can arrive turn 2. Landing zones must be recognized and prepared.
-Maneaters can go conga if necessary
-Sabretusks are a liability vs BS-shooty heavy armies and magic missiles.
-chaff is king vs the usual big bus character lists.
-Clear lanes of fire should be a priority when choosing where to deploy.
-Gnoblars are improving with use. Hard to use properly, must plan two turns ahead. 1x10, 2x5 or 3x3+1 formations are often more useful than 5x2. Can block other chaff when steadfast on Ld9 with reroll. Will soak a lot of shooting damage for their points and are excellent shields.
-The army takes very few leadership tests, or tests of any kind. The variables are mostly in the ironblasters.
Possible List changes
1) Musician on gnoblars. Relatively expensive, but will greatly increase their mobility.
2) Drop champion on leadbelchers. He is hardly ever used. Might be a lot more important vs flying characters.
3) Maneaters need a champion badly. Drop one pistol and add champion to keep the unit below 450 pts.
4) Maneater champion w/GW for 5 ws4 S7 attacks would be really helpful. Would have to drop one Maneater to make that happen, or one more pistol.
5) The lack of fireward in the army was never felt. Don't see the need.
6) Ironcurse icon are never used, because enemy warmachines shoot at ironblasters. Drop.
7) Lookout gnoblar not missed for the same reason.
Charmed shield on General might be better, for those lone charges out of ironguts and subsequent shooting.
Unit by unit analysis
General and BSB
-Solid. BSB should ALWAYS stay within 12" of ironguts, leadbelchers and maneaters.
-8 ws5 S7 attacks handle most things that don't sport ward saves.
-Charging out of ironguts is a valid tactic at times.
Firebelly
-The one model that sees the most action in the entire army. Very good point for point.
-March+breath weapon on infantry and skirmishers are unexpected and powerful.
-Kindleflame+ruby ring+fireball makes for a dependable magic phase. At times one even gets flaming sword or flamecage, both works perfectly with the army.
-Preferably stays outside of units or on the edge of leadbelchers/maneaters, to avoid costly miscasts.
-Breath weapon in CC, while charging a regenerating unit togehter with ironguts, or for killing a warmachine hunter behind the lines, is very good.
-Dies most of the time. Mostly due to his lack of save and always being in harms way. Pitching him vs poison units is a waste. Take care.
-When jumping out of a unit, consider what can counter.
Ironguts
-Solid. just keep the BSB close.
OK#20
Heroes (575pts)
Bruiser (170pts)
General
Great Weapon, Heavy Armour
Ironcurse Icon,Talisman of Preservation
Bruiser (191pts)
Battle Standard Bearer, Great Weapon
Armour of Destiny
Firebelly (214pts)
Great Weapon, Wizard Level 2
Dispel Scroll, Ruby Ring of Ruin
Core (610pts)
10x Gnoblars (25pts)
10x Gnoblars (25pts)
10x Gnoblars (25pts)
9 Ironguts (432pts)
Full command
Standard of Discipline
3 Ogres (103pts)
Bellower
Additional Hand Weapon
Special (871pts)
8 Leadbelchers (364pts)
Bellower, Champion
7 Maneaters (444pts)
Bellower, Poisoned Attacks , Stubborn
Maneaters (62pts)
A Brace of Ogre Pistols, Light Armour
Sabretusk (21pts)
Sabretusk (21pts)
Sabretusk (21pts)
Rare (340pts)
Ironblaster (170 pts)
Ironblaster (170 pts)
Total: 2396 pts
Games:
1. DE. Jonas (53. plass). 8-12
2. EM. Johan (68. plass). 17-3
3. LZ. Martin R. ( 28. plass). 12-8
4. OK. Jonas (72. plass). 16-4
5. DoC. Daniel (43. plass). 18-2
Total score was 4th place. Way above expected, and a lot of fun. That said, I believe their pairing system gave me somewhat of an unfair advantage since non-ranked players were landed in a low group and given shadow points for the first two games of swiss seeding. Idea was good, but it ended up only changing around the hard matchups.
Army is good vs
-Agressive bus-lists
-War machines
Army is weak vs
-Flying heroes
-BS-based shooting
-Magic heavy with lots of damage ??
Lessons learned
-Solid deployment trumps opportunistic placement for possible good first turn shots.
-Optimal theoretical deployment according to figure 1.
-Deployment should be locked almost irrespective of opponent. Although some defensive armies will need to be recognized and planned for in the deployment phase. Flyers can arrive turn 2. Landing zones must be recognized and prepared.
-Maneaters can go conga if necessary
-Sabretusks are a liability vs BS-shooty heavy armies and magic missiles.
-chaff is king vs the usual big bus character lists.
-Clear lanes of fire should be a priority when choosing where to deploy.
-Gnoblars are improving with use. Hard to use properly, must plan two turns ahead. 1x10, 2x5 or 3x3+1 formations are often more useful than 5x2. Can block other chaff when steadfast on Ld9 with reroll. Will soak a lot of shooting damage for their points and are excellent shields.
-The army takes very few leadership tests, or tests of any kind. The variables are mostly in the ironblasters.
Possible List changes
1) Musician on gnoblars. Relatively expensive, but will greatly increase their mobility.
2) Drop champion on leadbelchers. He is hardly ever used. Might be a lot more important vs flying characters.
3) Maneaters need a champion badly. Drop one pistol and add champion to keep the unit below 450 pts.
4) Maneater champion w/GW for 5 ws4 S7 attacks would be really helpful. Would have to drop one Maneater to make that happen, or one more pistol.
5) The lack of fireward in the army was never felt. Don't see the need.
6) Ironcurse icon are never used, because enemy warmachines shoot at ironblasters. Drop.
7) Lookout gnoblar not missed for the same reason.
Charmed shield on General might be better, for those lone charges out of ironguts and subsequent shooting.
Unit by unit analysis
General and BSB
-Solid. BSB should ALWAYS stay within 12" of ironguts, leadbelchers and maneaters.
-8 ws5 S7 attacks handle most things that don't sport ward saves.
-Charging out of ironguts is a valid tactic at times.
Firebelly
-The one model that sees the most action in the entire army. Very good point for point.
-March+breath weapon on infantry and skirmishers are unexpected and powerful.
-Kindleflame+ruby ring+fireball makes for a dependable magic phase. At times one even gets flaming sword or flamecage, both works perfectly with the army.
-Preferably stays outside of units or on the edge of leadbelchers/maneaters, to avoid costly miscasts.
-Breath weapon in CC, while charging a regenerating unit togehter with ironguts, or for killing a warmachine hunter behind the lines, is very good.
-Dies most of the time. Mostly due to his lack of save and always being in harms way. Pitching him vs poison units is a waste. Take care.
-When jumping out of a unit, consider what can counter.
Ironguts
-Solid. just keep the BSB close.
Army blog: http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=43579
-
- Green Istari
- Posts: 13847
- Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
- Location: Otherworld
Re: Rusty's Wolfen of Vile-Tis (OK++ blog)
Bump to this superb hobbyist blog for MasterofNone.
A New Blog (Orcs and Goblins)
http://ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70550
Cavalry Prince Reloaded
http://ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=70001
http://ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70550
Cavalry Prince Reloaded
http://ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=70001
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- Posts: 378
- Joined: Sat May 09, 2020 1:26 pm
- Location: United Kingdom
Re: Rusty's Wolfen of Vile-Tis (OK++ blog)
Most appreciated sir!
Before seeing your note I was wondering the reason for bringing this thread back from oblivion, but it is a very interesting read, his army lists are totally different from mine.
Although he was playing in tournaments, I am not.
I like an army with showy miniatures
Before seeing your note I was wondering the reason for bringing this thread back from oblivion, but it is a very interesting read, his army lists are totally different from mine.
Although he was playing in tournaments, I am not.
I like an army with showy miniatures
-
- Green Istari
- Posts: 13847
- Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
- Location: Otherworld
Re: Rusty's Wolfen of Vile-Tis (OK++ blog)
I believe you've yet to post a draft Ogre list MoN?
Rusty was a very strong player who also fielded Daemons and Wood Elves.
I looked a year or two ago and most of these miniatures were available on eBay. I especially liked Rusty's archer conversions given that the missile weapon of choice in the range was the crossbow.
A New Blog (Orcs and Goblins)
http://ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70550
Cavalry Prince Reloaded
http://ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=70001
http://ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70550
Cavalry Prince Reloaded
http://ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=70001
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- Posts: 378
- Joined: Sat May 09, 2020 1:26 pm
- Location: United Kingdom
Re: Rusty's Wolfen of Vile-Tis (OK++ blog)
You are right.SpellArcher wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 6:18 pmI believe you've yet to post a draft Ogre list MoN?
I looked a year or two ago and most of these miniatures were available on eBay. I especially liked Rusty's archer conversions given that the missile weapon of choice in the range was the crossbow.
I have written a few but they are just paper exercises for now. I will in the next few days in my thread.
Painting has slowed down for a couple of weeks because of other things happening, including a nice weekend that I have chosen to spend in the Lakes instead of indoors
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- Green Istari
- Posts: 13847
- Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
- Location: Otherworld
Re: Rusty's Wolfen of Vile-Tis (OK++ blog)
Can't say I blame you.MasterOfNone wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:43 pm including a nice weekend that I have chosen to spend in the Lakes instead of indoors
A New Blog (Orcs and Goblins)
http://ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70550
Cavalry Prince Reloaded
http://ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=70001
http://ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70550
Cavalry Prince Reloaded
http://ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=70001