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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:06 am 
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So I kinda rage quitted ulthuan.net for a while this year. I was getting annoyed with some people here and all the nay sayers (you know, those players that don’t go to tournaments and don’t win much, yet think they know everything). I got sick of reading pretty much every army list with a book of hoeth, light council or bloody teclis. I wanted to do something different and felt the forum was a lost cause at the time.

So I set out to try something different. I got abuse at the start of the year when I said I was going to bring back star dragons and become top UK HE with him. People laughed saying monsters suck in 8th but hey, I did it, and still am (Well for end of 2012 but I recon Ian S or Garath S will take it soon since I aint been in the UK since May)

So, this blog is to start my next step. With high elves probably getting a new book in 2013 I deceided to try using the dragons and a bigger event (since sadly I doubt I will make the UK’s SCGT this year)

So Laura the Ligon is off to Adepticon, and I am to win it ;)

I am also going to use GottaCon in Feb as a test for the list I am thinking of.

It has a few flaws but it is pretty much what I have ran all year with a few tweeks here and there. Yes It might not be “optimal” and christ half the stuff can be shot off turn 1…but I have played versions of this list for 9 months now and have a great track record with it (just not a 1st yet…but 4 x 3rd place and a15th in SCGT)

Feed back is welcome but unless things work very badly in test games and GottaCon I doubt I will change the list much

So I will update games on here and how things are going. I will also be putting stuff on our podcast: http://www.chumphammer.com

I will update the pictures once I have the last few models completed and a new sword for my lord but roughly looks like this:

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And this is the rough list:

Prince – General
Star Dragon, Dragon Armour, Enchanted Shield, Vambraces of Defense
Sword of Might, Other tricksters shard

Lords: 624

Noble - Battle Standard
Great Weapon, Helm of Fortune, Guardian Phoenix,
Shield, Dragon armour, Great Eagle

Mage – Lore of Heavens
Level 2, Silverwand, Ring of Fury

Mage - Lore of Metal
Staff of Solidity

Heroes: 531pts

23 Archers -1st amoung equels
Full Command, Banner of eternal flame

14 Archers
Musician/Banner

14 Archers
Musician/Banner

Core: 626

Lion Chariot

Lion Chariot

7 Dragon Princes of Calador
Banner, Banner of Sorcery

Special: 560

Great Eagle

Great Eagle

Great Eagle

Rare: 150

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:20 pm 
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I know what you mean in a way Wamphyri. Things have been a bit Lion Horde FTW (can be effective though). Ironic as your army is heavily Chracian but with no White Lions! But guys like Seredain, the Eagle Prince guys and others are still playing and winning.

This list looks familiar. Ever tempted to take a scroll instead of the Staff? I really like the Lion Chariots here. Many people think they're rubbish but I'm guessing they chip in with the grinding attacks you don't have from elite infantry?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:37 pm 
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I like it a lot! I wanted to switch to chariots with my Dragon list but never got the chance as I didn't get them painted in time for any of the tournaments I did. I was going to go Tiranocs though as I went for the WL horde and Lion chariots didn't fit the points...

Yes I was one of 'those people' with WLs. They are might effective though :D ! Especially in a list like mine which lacked magical support for my units. I like the mobility of your list. In fact it's probably pretty much maxed out in this case so you can hit a single area pretty hard and concentrate your forces. I imagine the chariots are actually pretty survivable with the Dragon around to take away cannon fire - at least that's what I found with my eagle-mounted Noble. I am wondering why you chose this magical setup though? I can see that Heavens can help you out with the buffs/debuffs as you have a fair few heavy armour units but metal? I don't imagine this list would struggle against lists that are cav.focused as the Dragon will chew them up. In that case, what's your reasoning for the metal mage?

Onto a slightly more important issue... I'm also going to Adepticon and wanted to get some games in. It's 2400pts though so the Star Dragon doesn't fit. As such I'm currently experimenting with a few things. It also looks like you will have to change your list from what you have currently as your lord is over-allowance. Any ideas on what you're going to change to? I don't really think you can do the Dragon List at less than 2500pts as either you will have a lesser dragon or a less survivable lord.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:18 pm 
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Hi Guys,

Dont get me wrong, i love white lion. I just cant fit them in!

Ive played all year with no scroll. You get used to having to take a hit with magic. Testing the staff idea so if up against a big armoured threat I can 6 dice searing doom without losing the spell.

I love my lion chariots. Mainly I love the models as they are over costed points wise but they are ace in a HEvsHE match. Great supporterd.

Yup 2400 for Adepticon. SCGT was the same. Taking the same list minus some archers, a dragon prince and lord items change to warriors bane, tal of preservation, charmed shield and other tricksters. Comes in at 599. Hes there mainly to buff the dragon and make sure not stuck by an ethereal slann

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:08 pm 
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I too run without a scroll but I use a Lvl3 on High Magic, which helps defend the phase. Lvl2 without is interesting. I can see the Staff idea with the amount of armour out there.

I faced a Star Dragon list with Lion Chariots once and managed to shoot them off. That was in 7th though and was still a minor loss.

AFAIK you are the only guy who's had serious success with Star Dragon at 2400 Wamphyri. But your approach to it is slightly unusual.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:35 pm 
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lol its because I an unususl

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:14 pm 
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What's your thoughts on taking Lore of Metal on your back up caster?

I would think with the star dragon, lion chariot and dragon princes you wouldn't have a difficult time dealing with heavily armored opponents...

My first inkling would be high or death. Mainly so you have the option of sniping a bsb or a greyseer or even warmachines with a good roll. High Magic is another option, really there isn't a bad spell in the lore plus it unlocks Drain Magic.

I like the list, really fast and really aggressive.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:48 pm 
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I have tried a few different combos already

tried:
lvl2 metal (+sw) and lvl1 fire
lvl2 high (+sw) and lvl1 fire
lvl2 high (+sw) and lvl2 death (Seerstaff soulblight and purplesun)

At the moment there is alot of armour around. Yes my dragon can do a number on them but my dragon has other stuff to go after (usually the biggest scariest thing on the table) also even if my dragon hits a stank, its going to be stuck for 2 turns at least. Not worth it when theres other stuff he can do.

So, depending what I face I can roll metal. If heavy armour I will use searing doom. otherwise I can see what I roll. It also put the fear of god into alot of armour players...so if I sit 6 dice on it they will probably hold a scroll/dice back to dispel it so I am free to cast other spells.

Heavens was a tough choice between high. High has alot fo good spells but heavens fits my army better.
sig spell means I can have a good chance of shutting down a cannon shooting my dragon, means if my dragon fights iron guts they need a 6 to hit me (they are WS3, I am WS7, plus iceshard) also if against something low LD terror can do a number if I charge them with the -1 LD

harmonic connvergence stops those pesky 1's to wound.

curse of the midnight wind stops my the chance of my lord being KB, and means if dragon is hitting knights they have to reroll that 6.

comet is just awesome, and chain lightning can really help to.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:01 pm 
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I understand the Metal choice. You are a mind f***ing genius ;) internet cookie for the reference.

I like heavens in this capacity.

I suppose there really isn't a bad spell in Metal maybe other than Golden Hounds haha. If you manage to roll Final Transmutation, Enchanted Blades or Glittering spells against low armor opponents you'll still be coming out ahead. Lion chariots with a 3+ armor save anyone?!

What do you drop to reach 2400pts?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:10 pm 
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This is one option at the moment:

Prince – General
Star Dragon, Dragon Armour, Charmed Shield, Talisman of Preservation
Warriors Bane, Other tricksters shard

Lords: 599

Noble - Battle Standard
Great Weapon, Helm of Fortune, Guardian Phoenix,
Shield, Dragon armour, Great Eagle

Mage – Lore of Heavens
Level 2, Silverwand, Ruby ring

Mage - Lore of Metal
Staff of Solidity

Heroes: 516pts

21 Archers -1st amoung equels
Full Command, Banner of eternal flame

14 Archers
Musician/Banner

14 Archers
Musician/Banner

Core: 604

Lion Chariot

Lion Chariot

6 Dragon Princes of Calador
Banner, Banner of Sorcery

Special: 530

Great Eagle

Great Eagle

Great Eagle

Rare: 150

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:17 pm 
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Do you think dropping to a moon dragon would better serve the list? The prince would be more survivable, lend a hand and might save you some extra points.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on the Prince build.

The rest of the list look pretty similar and still quite strong.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:21 pm 
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Tried a Moondragon before but its really stardragon or none.

The extra Wound means you cannot be cannoned off with a lucky shot. Extra stength in the breath is ace too

Also the extra ws,S and ld does help

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:25 pm 
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Played a Star Dragon list (MSU) this afternoon against Empire and had a nice victory. Gave Prince Vambraces of Defense, Dragon Armour, Shield and Great Weapon. 3+ Re-Rollable vs. shooting, 4+ Re-Rollable in CC and 4+ ward. Worked well as both Dragon and Rider were able to survive the Empire's artillery.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:28 am 
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So last night I had my 1st run through with this version of the list.

I was facing Lizardmen (Guy called Craig) and he had roughly:

Shadow Slann with dispel scroll, extra dice
Old Blood on foot with 1+ armour, 4+ ward, biting blade
Bsb on cold one with stubborn crown and luckstone
Skink priest on an engine of the gods
3 x 11 skinks
Massive block of 40 Saurus (I think) with Leadership banner
11 cold cone knights with razor banner
2 x 1 Salamaners


he rolled enthebling, misama, pit and mindrazor. Skink had thunderbolt and iceshard.

I had seering doom, Iceshard, harmonic convergence and comet

He sets up the skinks on both flanks and middle. Coldcones on my right flank with the engine. Middle sees the slanns unit (12 from the coldones) and left flank the 2 salamanders.

I set up and eagle on each flank plus a centre one. 23 archers with heavens mage on the left flank and both blocks of 14 archers on the right (one with the metal mage)

Dragon princes and chariots sat infront of them and the dragon and bsb on the far right to be well out of rage of Pit of Shades.

We rolled off and I got a 6 to his 4. 1st turn for me

Turn 1:

Dragon and bsb head up the flank supported by eagle but making sure I am out of charge range of the steg and a march/pit from slann. 1 eagle follow.

Dragon princes move 8 up to support with a chariot. Archers with the metal mage move into a building 5” away while the other sits fine as his skinks are on his so they can shoot over the knights. Big block of archers stands with the left eagle pulling back to the middle.

My magic sees a double 1. I don’t channel and banner sees 1 dice. Boo.

I 1 dice RoF which he dispels. I 2 dice seering doom lvl1 at his steg which he cannot dispel. I roll 1 hit and do a wound. Joy.

Big Archers fire at a salamander and reduce it to a wound. Other archers kill off 5 skinks on the hill.
His turn 1 sees the steg and knights turn to face the dragon. Skinks move forwards and the salamanders head to near the slanns unit.

Magic sees him roll a 5. He casts miasma and iceshard on the dragon with me failing to dispel.

Shooting sees him fail to wound the dragon, the rest out of range of my archers so nothing happens.

Turn 2:

Dragon charges the Ancient steg. Eagle charges nearest skinks which he stands and shoots to kill it with poison. Bsb also charges and gets in. The dragon princes and chariot 1 moves to support the dragon and chariot 2 moves to support the archer block.

Magic sees me roll 4 and 1 on the banner. I throw 2 dice at RoF onto the closet skinks to my archers, which he lets go waiting to dispel searing doom which he does . I roll 11 hits then 11 wounds. Bye bye skinks

Block Archers hail down on skinks to kill off a massive 7, which they fail their panic and flee. 2x14 archers shoot at the knights and manage to knock 1 off.

Combat sees the lord kill the skink priest and dragons wounds the steg 4 times. Steg fails to wound the lord, as does the skinks. He breaks and is run down. This now sadly leaves my flank open to the knights. BSB and eagle kill 4 skinks and the flee and are run down.

His turn 2 he charges the dragon with the knights. And the rest of his army starts to swing around to my right flank. His old blood moves out of the unit to block Lion chariot 2 from charging anything but him. Skinks continue to run and after being shot again in my next turn down to 1 man they run off the board.

His magic sees 10 dice. He miasma the dragon and lord for –2 stats. I dispel enfeebling foe and then he 6 dices mindrazor which goes off.

He has nothing to shoot so we hit combat. Lord kills 2 coldones but then they kill the dragon. The lord flees but he does not persue, as my dragon princes, bsb and chariot would be in the flank and rear. He reforms to face the dragon princes and chariot after 5 mins of uming and aring.

Turn 3


Lion chariot 2 charges the oldblood and that’s all.

Lord rallies and bsb moves out to back him up. Lion chariot 1 and dragon princes reverse to avoid a coldone charge. Big Archer block reforms into ranks. My chariot rallies and I throw chatiot 1 into his slann to try a checky assasination (I do 2 wounds, he does 2 so I flee. He doesn’t persue)

Magic sees 8 dice . I 6 dice seering doom, fail to doubel 6 and he scrolls it.

Shooting sees 4 saurus die and a knight.

The chariot does 1 wound to the lord for 2 back. We draw.

His turn 3 he charges the big block at the house and moves the knights forwards right in the face of my knights, with the salamanders moving to shoot the lord and eagle.

Magic sees another 10. He mindrazors the knights, enfeebles and miasmas my knights (I was having a crap dispel night)

Shooting fails to do anything due to wards

Combat sees me kill 3 saurus for 7 but my stubborn (house) passes. I fail to would his old blood for 1 in return. I flee and he persues into my big archer block

TURN 4:

My house archers leave out the back, meaning his big block is pointless now. My last eagle sits infront of his knights as my dragon princes manage to move out of the way. my lord fails to charge one sally while my bsb hits the other. Archer block 2 charges his oldblood in the flank Chariot rallies

Magic sees 12 (Finally!) So I harmonic my archers, RoF is dispelled, Ice shard his old blood and 6 dice seering on his knights. No 66 but it goes off…and I roll a fecking 3. BALLS! So I only kill 2 more knights.

Shooting sees nothing due to movement/combat.

Combat sees me doing a wound to the old blood for 1 in return. He flees throw the slanns unit but I fail to catch him or hit the unit (he rolled 11, I was under 6 on both)

Bsb kills the salander.

His turn he charges the eagle (and kills it but kills the champion) and reforms the slann.

Magic sees miasma on the big archers and fails pit.

Combat sees the eagle die (boo)

TURN 5:

Chariot and bsb charge the cold ones, lord charges the salamander. All get in.

Magic sees 10 for me, so I fail harmonic on the chariot but iceshard the knights. I 3 dice seering doom on his oldblood, roll a 6 and take him off as he fails all his wards.

Shooting sees 4 saraus die

Combat sees all but the coldone bsb die (but down to a wound) and the crown keeps him in place. Lord kills the salamander.

His turn he charges my archers. Magic was uneventful (miscast his 1st spell for miasma on archers but rolled a 1 for the stat and kill 4 sarus with the miscast and lost all dice)

Archers Manages to kill 4 for 2!. I pass my test. His bsb dies

Turn 6

My turn 6 is just moving around the stay away from panics. Big block moves back and BSB flys to do LD reroll. I iceshard his unit and then kill 3 in combat for 1 back. He wins but I say. Game over man!

SO I lost the dragon but lord lived, and 3 eagles…as everything else was wounded but alive.

He lost everything bar the slann and 20 odd remaining sarus.

Big win for the elves!

Lessen learned. low magic rolls is bloody annoying plus dragons no like mindrazor :)

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:36 pm 
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Quote:
So I kinda rage quitted ulthuan.net for a while this year. I was getting annoyed with some people here and all the nay sayers (you know, those players that don’t go to tournaments and don’t win much, yet think they know everything). I got sick of reading pretty much every army list with a book of hoeth, light council or bloody teclis. I wanted to do something different and felt the forum was a lost cause at the time.


You know what?
I did the same exact thing, but for the exact opposite reason you did.

I quit the forum because people here are playing different games. Some play slightly comp, some play ETC, some play some other houserule variant of WHFB. Most events by me are uncomped, minus the occasional ban in Teclis, Kairos, Thorek, and that's it. I traveled back to the East Coast recently and I talked to my old gaming club. They have pretty much the same limitations.. which is basically barely any restrictions at all.

I'll post a quote I said a few months ago.

Quote:
But to go on the point that you made about the Skaven running a Warlord on Bonebreaker (which would be laughed at in a uncomped environment), but maybe another houserule somewhere will ban 50-man units or hordes in general (and I've seen it!). One could argue that 50-man Stormvermin units are easy to deal with, but my point is: Where does it end? One could say that Hell Pit Aboms are easy to deal with, but in what environment does that guy play in that warrants such advice? People can give advice, and that's great, and I love it when people do, but one thing remains clear: That advice might not be suited for that player. He might take a cavalry prince and be like Seredain, and he'll think that's colorful and awesome.. that is until he runs into some beardy crazy he can't deal with because he's not playing in the same gaming environment as Seredain.

Then he comes back to us and go: Wtf guys?! Or worse, he doesn't come back to us at all because our best "advice" wasn't for him. All this tells me one thing and one thing only: That comped and uncomped does 1 thing to the Warhammer community, and that's to divide it.

I will say no more on this matter, but I'll leave you guys with this (all other High Elf players wishing to post here). Please tell us what environment you guys are playing in, uncomped, slightly comped or heavy comped. That way, we can provide advice best suited for you!


This is the main reason why I found myself visiting Ulthuan.net less and less in the last couple of months. We're not playing the same game, so we're not giving the same advice. And that kills me a bit inside.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:57 pm 
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It's a good point but there is overlap. I'm pretty sure Wamphyri for example has been running this style of list in no-comp, light comp and medium comp tournies with general success. Seredain has played exclusively under no or light comp. I think it's more to do with metagame. If almost every army you run into has cannons for example this is very, very different from almost none of them having cannons. Impression I get is that Wamphyri tends to face a cannon-count somewhere in the middle (correct me if I'm wrong W). But of course some HE armies laugh at cannons. Similarly, some places you'll face a ton of armour almost every game, Lore of Metal FTW!

:)

The other thing is playstyle. I've seen really good players run certain kind of HE lists and fail (relatively) while they do very well with other HE lists or other armies.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:00 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
It's a good point but there is overlap. I'm pretty sure Wamphyri for example has been running this style of list in no-comp, light comp and medium comp tournies with general success. Seredain has played exclusively under no or light comp. I think it's more to do with metagame. If almost every army you run into has cannons for example this is very, very different from almost none of them having cannons. Impression I get is that Wamphyri tends to face a cannon-count somewhere in the middle (correct me if I'm wrong W). But of course some HE armies laugh at cannons. Similarly, some places you'll face a ton of armour almost every game, Lore of Metal FTW!

:)

The other thing is playstyle. I've seen really good players run certain kind of HE lists and fail (relatively) while they do very well with other HE lists or other armies.


It's also that Seredain doesn't play with a bunch of cheeseheads, so thank god to his gaming club.

My current club had the following:
Light Slann, full works, Engine, big blocks of wars, TGs, MSU force deployment
Death Magic SM, 3x sabretusks fodder/redirector/amazing, 2x Ironblaster, Leadbelchers, big IG, small Wars
another Ogre player with Maneater snipers, but mostly the same other stuff
another Ogre player with a Mournfang unit, 2x Ironblasters, Death sniper SM
Flying unkillable Dreadlord, 2x Hydra, Wych horde, Lv.4 Sorc w/ Dagger, RXBs all over the place
Thirster, Siren Songs, letter blocks and ASF Daemonette blocks, Flamers
Empire, mostly Stubborn all over the place, 2x Siege Tanks, or 2x Helblasters
Lv.4 Greyseer, tokens up the wazhoo, cheap heroes that blows everything up, 2x HPA, or 2x Wheels, or 2x WLC, ratdarts, huge blocks of slaves
VC Lv.4 fighty lord, GG unit, blocks of fodder, plenty of ethereal, 2x Terrorgheist
WoC can pretty much freestyle and be fine, just add the basics.
..etc

People actually play these lists. But for some wild reason, whenever I mention Book of Hoeth people freak out.

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I don't want to weigh this thread down anymore, but it's one of the reasons I've avoided Ulthuan.net.
I love everyone here; Curu, Seredin, Brew. You're all great and I love your creativity and rights to experiment. But no matter what, we're not playing the same game anymore.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:52 pm 
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Yup as SpellArcher said, I have run this list in small 25 player to 150 players. Light Comp, Heavy comp and uncomped in 2 different countries.

I have played newbies, vets and faced some of the top ranking UK and Canadian players, and next year at a couple of American tournaments.

Even been to the ETC (though with WoC, woulda been there with for ETC2012/2013 but due to moving to Canada had to drop out in both)

So I have a good scope on facing different armies and lists

Do I know everything? nope.

Is my advice are play style the way to go? its up the the person


I have seen 3 people run the same army at a tournament and do good/bad depending on their play style.

At the end of the day, us "long term" high elf players can only give advice and tactics that we would use and what we think can work.

If it fits their playstyle, great! if not then that person needs to keep trying different options until they find a fit.

I loved running lvl4 mages before I tried a dragon. Now when I try and run a Archmage I just find it clunky and ineffective

But thats my playstyle. I am a pretty "get stuck in" player but I am tactical aswell, not just "RAWR SMASH".

At the end of the day we still use forums like Ulthuan.net as we enjoy our hobbie. If we wanted just to win constantly we would use lizards, or Skaven, or ogres or many of those "top tier army"

We use High elves because we love the high elf fluff. For better or worse. Were stuck with them

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:02 pm 
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Metagame indeed plays a huge part of what works and what doesn't.

Personally, I just like coming to Ulthuan.net to help the newer players, but clashing with other vets on the forum takes a certain toll. It doesn't hurt my feelings or anything, but I can't help but feel bad to the people we're trying to help. That's why I always what kind of lists are you playing against, and is there any comps before saying anything else now.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:25 pm 
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Congrats on the win Wamphyri! Did you have any pics or anything to go with the BatRep? If you are looking for more constructive comments, etc, I always find it a lot easier going if there are pics included - just camera shots would suffice! I guess a big question is why you overran with the Dragon if you knew you would get charged by the CoK? Without seeing the table at the time it's difficult to discuss this - knowing the distances involved, etc. Was there no chance you could have reformed and then fled the ensuing charge to get better field position?

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HERO wrote:
I quit the forum because people here are playing different games. Some play slightly comp, some play ETC, some play some other houserule variant of WHFB. Most events by me are uncomped, minus the occasional ban in Teclis, Kairos, Thorek, and that's it. I traveled back to the East Coast recently and I talked to my old gaming club. They have pretty much the same limitations.. which is basically barely any restrictions at all.


HERO wrote:
This is the main reason why I found myself visiting Ulthuan.net less and less in the last couple of months. We're not playing the same game, so we're not giving the same advice. And that kills me a bit inside.


I disagree with pretty much all of your comments on this topic Hero, and how it affects newcomers to this site.

Diversity is almost always a good thing. In fact, I can't really think how it would be bad in a Warhammer context at all. Different meta-games encourage different ways of thinking which breed more creative and interesting solutions to problems i.e. different lists with new ideas. I don't see why giving/getting different or conflicting advice is a problem either. Hearing and reading different points of view should only strengthen your own ideas or open your eyes to other solutions to a given problem. I think the very fact that you often get different ideas from this forum and the fact that there are people playing in so many different metas makes this one of the best WFB forums I've ever used.

I think any one of Seredain's, Curu's or Brewmaster's lists could be taken to a lot of events (with the differences in relative comp) and probably do pretty well. They don't feature any of the usual 'banned' items - and aren't necessarily restricted from doing so - but are still decent lists. They are however, lists that are tuned to each players particular style - not necessarily a certain comp. They're all examples of great lists that are something you or I could use to inform our own list building (as I have done) depending upon what we like most about them.

I can somewhat see that telling new players x or y is good is potentially a bad idea but most of the 'vets' here tend to give people a couple of ideas and then tell them to figure out the rest for themselves or at least try to find something that they think will be fun or fit their play-style. As I think this forum shows, there is no particular 'right way' to play High Elves, although I guess there are a few bad ways!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:41 pm 
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Rainbow, I think you misunderstood what I was saying.
I'm not crapping on creativity or diversity, I'm crapping on the fact that not everyone plays the same game.
We can take it to PM if you'd like, I'd rather not flood this BR thread any longer.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:46 pm 
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John Rainbow wrote:
Congrats on the win Wamphyri! Did you have any pics or anything to go with the BatRep? If you are looking for more constructive comments, etc, I always find it a lot easier going if there are pics included - just camera shots would suffice! I guess a big question is why you overran with the Dragon if you knew you would get charged by the CoK? Without seeing the table at the time it's difficult to discuss this - knowing the distances involved, etc. Was there no chance you could have reformed and then fled the ensuing charge to get better field position?


Sadly no pics. Just practice not event.

This is mainly a blog about the army list and my road to Adepticon, Though I might change the list along the way and tactical advice is always good.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:03 pm 
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The problem is that the strength of an army is more than the sum of it's parts. While strong on the whole, plenty of the units you've listed HERO are considered sub-par in the UK tourney meta. Not because they're bad per se but because they don't work well against the kind of stuff you see here. BoH is allowed almost everywhere here and regarded as decent but not game-breaking.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:39 pm 
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That's one heck of a display board you got going on...Congrats ....


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:39 am 
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So I have been umming and arring about using the sigil of asuyran

The chance of destroying the mindrazor level spells of the game is very tempting and I feel the metal mage might turn redundent in some match ups

So would:

Drop
Staff of solidity and a dragon prince

Take
Dragon Prince musician and the sigil

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:10 am 
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thelordcal wrote:
What's your thoughts on taking Lore of Metal on your back up caster?

I would think with the star dragon, lion chariot and dragon princes you wouldn't have a difficult time dealing with heavily armored opponents...

My first inkling would be high or death. Mainly so you have the option of sniping a bsb or a greyseer or even warmachines with a good roll. High Magic is another option, really there isn't a bad spell in the lore plus it unlocks Drain Magic.

I like the list, really fast and really aggressive.


Its because fundamentally the star dragon etc often will be going for bunkers which is great but leaves core vulnerable. There is no such thing as to much stuff that rids armour theese days and chain and the ring and dragon princes deal with light stuff. Cant have to much anti armour theese days had to fight an empire armour where only the hurricanum, luminark, and 2 wizards didnt have a 1+. High is ok but not so effective across the game especially as the dragon has other tricksters and death would only be on ld8 :(
I am a fan of wamphs lists we just always differ in 1 way he has chariots i have the lion horde but both of us see metal and heavens as very good :D
Bottom line is even s6 is struggling to cut down the amount of armour theese days so i like the metal mage not sure i wouldnt go for crystal or scroll but i know wamphs logic.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:23 pm 
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wamphyri101 wrote:
So I have been umming and arring about using the sigil of asuyran

The chance of destroying the mindrazor level spells of the game is very tempting and I feel the metal mage might turn redundent in some match ups

So would:

Drop
Staff of solidity and a dragon prince

Take
Dragon Prince musician and the sigil


i would it really improves magic defence the other option i use a lot is a dispel scroll and the skein sliver first turn is big to get into him if he has warmachines

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:27 am 
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So played the 2nd game last night with the addition of sigil for a dragon prince. Wont do a long review for this one like last time but highlights are:

He was running 3 guys on discs (Lord and 2 exhaulted. 2 had 3+ wards, 1 with blood curdling roar and 1 with stream of corruption)
bsb on steed
lvl3 Shadow mage (Rolled Enfeeble, Mindrazor and swaped a spell for Miasma)
6 Skullcrushers
2x5 Marauders on horses
10 flail marauder
big block of warriors (24-30) halberds MoN
warshrine

I had seering doom, Curse of the midnight wind, Iceshard blizzard and Urians thunderbolt

Turn1
Ring of fury does 12 hits on the bsb and kills him
Lion chariot kills 5 horse marauders
Stream of corruption kills 3 knights (who flee)
Steals my spells and kills an eagle with thunderbolt

Turn2
Dragon charges Skullcrushers and does damage but they hold. he 6 dice mind razor to irrisitable it (becomes lvl1) and kills the dragon. Lord holds.

lion chariot charges marauder cav who are caught. faces the marauders on foot

Bsb charges his exhaulted with 14 archers. Challanges him (I take 2 wounds, him 1) but he runs. Fail to catch him
Nurgle warriors get a long charge on the chariot. They fail fear test and only do 3 wounds. White lions do 2 to the Mage lord. Chariot holds

Turn 3
Big block of archers try to support lord, both lord and unit flee (failed to get off curse/iceshard)

Bsb charges rallied exhaulted and kills him. reforms to face his lord who is engaged with the 14 archers and metal mage (held due to steadfast) shrine charges the same unit but fluffs attacks. I hold due to bsb just in range for reroll steadfast

His last exhaulted charges the dragon princes...failing to wound on both sides. Loses combat by musician and flees (fail to catch)

Lion chariot dies but takes the mage 1st.

Chariot 2 takes down the marauders on foot

Turn 4:

bsb charges the warshrine. mage takes the challange and takes 3 wounds for challange. warshrine takes 2 from the bsb. He loses combat and lord flees (but I am stuck)
Dragon princes and eagle (rear) charge the exhaulted and beat him in combat res. Flees and dies.
Shrine loses combat again and flees away from archers (rolled to see which way). His lord fails to rally, archers are in range to charge him so they do and he flees off the board. Bsb turns to face Skullcrushers but fails to charge.

Turn 5:
Skull crushes fail to charge my heavens mage. Archers flee from nurgle warriors. My eagle, Dragon princes, bsb and chariot turn to do a flank/rear charge on the Skullcrushers. Manage to get curse and iceshard off on them

Sadly we didnt get to do a turn 6 due to time.

So he had his Skullcrushers and Warriors left
I had my bsb, lvl2 mage, lion chariot, 2 x archers, and dragon princes left

Ended up (roughly) 1392 vs 1837 a win to me. Was bloody close for a bit but I just managed to out manouver him

SO, sadly didnt get to use the lvl1 metal mage to any affect at all. Kept thinking about changing him for a unit but I think its just a reaction to the game as he has his place vs ALOT of situations.

Oh...and I hate Mind Razor.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:50 pm 
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Ok so last night was a face off vs a heavy army empire list. He had already beaten my 2 team makes (one WoC other double slann)

He had roughly:

Arch Lec on Alter with Charmed Shield, White cloak (+2vs flaming, 5+ ward, -1 to hit) and fencers blades
Mounted bsb in reiksguard, with no idea what as he didn’t see much combat
Lvl2 light on steed
12 Inner Cirle knights plus command
2x6 knights
12 rieksguard knights
2 Steam Tanks (Fucking never die!)
2 x 3 Demi Gryphs

So due to event practice we had to play a Scenario which was meeting engagement.
This I kinda got screwed on as half my army didn’t turn up!

He went 1st, with a unit of demi gryphs, 6 knights and a stank on each flank and his innercircle knights, mage and alter in the middle. Rieksguard didn’t arrive.

I had an eagle, 23 archers, 14 archers and a chariot not turn up. This now meant I only have 1 unit to hide both mages which was the beginning of the end for me.
I deployed the army in 1 corner behind a rock and then 14 archers on the far right flank.

In a nut shell
Turn 1: army's move forwards, my dragon charges his demi gryphs and bsb/chariot charge 6 knights who flee and are run down by bsb. Metal mage does 5 wounds to Stank A and harmonic convergence on the dragon. Dragon and lord only do 2 wounds to demis (bloody Armour!) but they break but are not caught.

Turn 2:
He 6 dices banishment from the alter, which double 6’s and kills and eagle blocking his steam tank from turning. They makes the unit of Archers just within 6 panic 8 inches off the board with both mages.

The rest of the game is me trying to deal with armour but failing. It ends with around a 500pt win to him as his alter was fleeing turn 6 but not caught and 1 stank was on 1 wound (the other dead) but he had his mage, bsb and reiksguard. I only had my lord and dragon princes left.


So now I am thinking I should make both mages Metal. I seem to face lots of WoC here and more and more 1 or 2+ Monstrous cav, steam tanks, de dragon/hydras and Lizardmen scar vets more than anything else.

Is this a knee jerk reaction and should I stick with Heavens, or go the double metal. Metals has a lot of good spells that can help my army as well.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:39 am 
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Quick post via my phone. I would opt to drop the heaven mage.


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