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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 3:31 pm 
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Green Istari

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Location: Otherworld
Game One

Warriors of Chaos

My opponent had:

Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount, lots of nasty stuff.
Tzeentch Lvl 2 with Metal on Disc with Chaos Familiar
14 (15?) Slaanesh Chariots.

A unique list to be sure.

I was fairly sure that my opponent would line up fairly evenly across the table and just roll his wheels. The terrain featured a couple of buildings in the middle. So I resolved to put the Lord and Treekin between these as they should be able to deal with the three or so chariots they would meet there. The Treeman covered my right flank, facing off against another three chariots with a little support. The infantry I kept way back on my left (partly in my free wood) in the hope of dealing with the centre-right and coming back to help them. This plan proved somewhat optimistic. My opponent did indeed though opt for an even spread, his Lord started on the extreme right and his disc rider in the centre.

The treeman did quite well on the right. He killed one chariot and bounced a couple more, though this took time of course. I made a big mistake allowing one chariot a long charge on the Dryads + Branchwraith which it made. They lost combat and 186 pts disappeared, not big and not clever.

In the centre my opponent surprised me by throwing a chariot into my best unit. He buffed it with Enchanted Blades irresistably, managing to zero-level his Sorcerer. Somehow it held, denying me the chance to charge the three chariots waiting further back. In my turn I Wildformed the unit and dealt with it but ate the charge next turn. This hurt but I was able to grind my way through, aided by a flank charge from the Eternal Guard. Treekin and Lord pursued the fleers but annoyingly, didn't catch them.

On my left I'd had to back off sharpish and lost a couple of redirectors just staving the wall of chariots off. The crunch came when I had to interpose the Waywatchers and forgot about Skirmishers contracting when charged. Four (ouch!) models made it into the Eternal Guard, killing all 20. No longer Stubborn, the BSB poofed.

So I managed to pick off another couple of chariots and forlornly raced my Treeman back to help. But multiple bad boys converged on the once-proud Treekin and finished them off. A last ditch attempt to claw back some points by charging my Treeman into the Lord failed (of course) and that was that.

VP's 1090-2775

Loss (as by massively more than the 300VP's demanded by the comp).

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 4:30 pm 
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Does this tourney you're reporting on have a comp on how much BS shooting you can take? It's surprising to see a WE army without at least 30 Glade Guard. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 5:54 pm 
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~Milliardo~ wrote:
Does this tourney you're reporting on have a comp on how much BS shooting you can take? It's surprising to see a WE army without at least 30 Glade Guard. :D


I think that's likely just because SA prefers combined arms.

It sounds like you had a decent plan; shame it didn't work.

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 10:23 am 
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Green Istari

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Elithmar wrote:
Nice list. I wonder if the glade riders will do so well this time. Was it mournfangs they ran down last time?

Thanks Elithmar. They didn't do a lot in the first game! Yes, they did indeed chase mournfangs off the table last time out.

~Milliardo~ wrote:
Does this tourney you're reporting on have a comp on how much BS shooting you can take? It's surprising to see a WE army without at least 30 Glade Guard.


Yes indeed, 90 shot cap.

Glade Guard

These are good troops no question, especially for Core. One of the most successful builds, especially in the UK, spams them and adds Eagles & Dryads for redirection and Waywatchers for Killing Blow. This build has had some measure of success against the predominantly infantry builds in the first half of 8th edition. The problem is, it struggles big time against the fast armoured things that are coming to dominate the metagame. Enough S4 shooting can kill almost anything but focusing that when you have X fast, hard threats heading straight for you can be too much. This has only been compounded by the recent FAQ nerf to Killing Blow, which means that 1+ AS MC Heroes for example, run riot here.

Elithmar wrote:
I think that's likely just because SA prefers combined arms.


This is true. The above issue with the shooting list is one reason why this is so. But of course shooting is essential to a Combined Arms list and my unit of Glade Guard is very useful. It bunkers the mage, provides Flaming Attacks to tackle Regen and simply contributes some generally useful firepower from the Core allowance. Last time out I ran a second unit but it did not do as much for the army as the first and so I dropped it. To be honest even the varied list I've been running is not truly Combined Arms and that is an issue that is costing me and needs addressing.

So what should I have done in this game? Obviously losing the Dryads/Branchwraith was stupid. The Treeman did fine on the right and the Treekin/Lord pretty well in the centre. The problem though was that I would put a couple of wounds on a chariot, break it and then fail to catch it. Net result, it would come back for more later. Having a faster unit that could win combat, pursue and destroy would have put more pressure on and let me contest the initiative. As it was, I was the one reacting and my opponent dictated terms.

Spell selection was interesting. I had to choose between Amber Spear and Savage Beast and chose the latter. Reasoning being that I couldn't take out enough with the former, while the combat buff would come in handy multiple times. I'm still unsure about it. A major weakness of Wood Elves is a lack of any shooting above S4 and Amber Spear is very helpful here. Of course it's not as reliable as shooting but being able to hit hard targets pretty much table-wide is excellent. Maybe here it would have let me swing key areas of the board in my favour, I'm not sure.

As so many players are finding against new meta armies like Warriors of Chaos, the infantry struggled. They could have held a couple of chariots easily, allowing me to counterattack in my turn. But sheer numbers overwhelmed them. As said, the problem was that the combined arms cogs of precision shooting followed by fast punch, followed by infantry grind were not turning. The latter were left exposed and couldn't cope on their own.

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 3:23 pm 
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Game 2

Bretonnians

My opponent had:
HKB Knight Lord.
BSB, Lance.
4 (I believe) Paladins, Lances.
Lvl 4, Heavens.
Lvl 1, Beasts.

14 (I think) Knights of the Realm.
11 Knights Errant.
3 (possibly 4) x 5 Knights of the Realm


3 Pegasus Knights

2 Trebuchets

Most of the terrain was around the edges of the table, though there was a building right of centre and I put my free wood left and back. Deployment rules for this game meant not within 6" of the table edges and up to 15" in from the board edge. Slightly unhelpful.

My opponent put a small knight unit on my centre-left, then the big unit with General, BSB, Paladin and Lvl4. Then Peg Knights and another small unit. Then the Errants with the remaining characters. Small knight unit on my right. Trebuchets were on the baseline centre and right. I had Dryads/Branchwraith centre-left, then Treekin, Archers, (Building), Eternal Guard, Glade Riders, Treeman, Stag Lord on my right. I Scouted the Waywatchers far forwards on the right table edge in position to threaten his war machines.

Opponent won the Vanguard roll-off and moved his peg knights across his lines to intercept my flankers. I didn't Vanguard and because he Prayed, got first turn and charged the Pegs with my Glade Riders. He didn't fancy offering his flank and fled back to the bad terrain on the centre of his baseline, passing the Dangerous checks. The Waywatchers then shot his small flanking unit to no effect. I also loosed Hail of Doom at the same target but no joy. Waywatchers followed up with a flank charge on the exposed Treb and took it out. Next turn though, the rallied Pegs charged and destroyed them.

On the left, another small unit charged my Dryads. I lost by one but held and broke him next round, heading for his side as I had a secret mission to get three units into his deployment zone. This would net me 400ps if successful.

In the centre, he wheeled the big bus and headed for my right, where my units were menacing his Errants. A lightning bolt put four wounds on my Treeman, who was shortly after charged by another small knight unit. Bad dice saw him die in a couple of rounds. Concerned by the approaching bus, my Lord ran away towards my table edge. I'd lost three of the Glade Riders to a scattering Treb shot and used the other two to cover my escape, also pulling the Eternal Guard back out of charge range.

My opponent then reformed once more and brought his bus through the centre to threaten my Treekin. He blew the Falcon Horn which stopped me saving them with the eagle. They just could not cope with this deathstar and died horribly, my opponent pursuing into my deployment zone. Next turn my eagle headed for the surviving Treb and potential VP's from the secret mission.

With the bus away from the flank, the Eternal Guard engaged the Errants and small knights while my Lord took a charge from the Pegs, to the right of this combat. I threw caution to the winds and flank charged the small unit with my Archers. The Lord beat off the Pegs and pursued into the Errants, so he fought again (I'd actually expected to miss these and head for his side of the table). I won combat, leaving my opponent needing a 5 to hold with the small unit and a Steadfast 8 with the Errants. He rolled 3 and 8, effectively ending any chances I had.

I got the second Treb but my opponent got his bus into the rear of the Eternal Guard, killing the BSB and destroying this unit and the archers. My Lord broke but got away. He was charged last turn by the pursuing Errants but held, at least denying my opponent the 400 bonus VP's for his secret mission to kill my General.

VP's 308-1989

Loss.

Ryhaleth wrote:
Is this the one where Tom Richards destroyed you with Brettonians? Saw one of his most recent reports and he stomped on a Stag Lord, Treekin, Eternal Guard etc. If so, my condolences sir.


Indeed (except for the Stag Lord :) ) and thank you.

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:01 pm 
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Debrief

This was difficult. I spent much of it trying to calculate all my opponent's charge options and wondering how to claw my way back into the game. The sheer speed of his units and the relative slowness of mine was a real issue. Plus I had nothing that could take his big bus on. Combo-charges were the only way here and with his rapidity and my units getting disjointed these were never really an option. That said, I might have pulled something out of the game from the big combat near the end.

Treekin

In general, I've been quite pleased with this unit. They did well against Ogres and having something that could actually take chariot charges and survive was very important in the Warriors game. But in this game they came face to face with a deathstar and just died. 390 is a lot of points to lose like this. I've considered reducing the unit to three or four but then they are less durable and risk losing their role as something that can take most enemy charges and hold. A dilemma.

The other issue with having expensive units like this one and the Eternal Guard is that they reduce the number of deployment drops. I like having Scouts but they compound the problem. I had thought that with the flexibility of Skirmishers and single models like the Treeman, this would be less of an issue. But finishing deployment early still leaves big, inflexible units like the Treekin exposed, in that the enemy can end his deployment either to avoid them or gang up on them.

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:30 pm 
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Game Three

Wood Elves

My opponent had:

Lord, Bow of Loren, Arcane Bodkins.
Spellweaver, Lvl 4, Life, Luminescents.
BSB, Asyendi's Bane, Hail of Doom Arrow.

18 Glade Guard, Full Command, Flaming.
10 Glade Guard
10 Glade Guard
10 Glade Guard
5 Glade Riders
5 Glade Riders
8 Dryads
8 Dryads

10 Wild Riders, Full Command.
6 Treekin

Eagle
Eagle

So I was outnumbered here. Plus my opponent had a lot more shooting. Armies like this are often a difficult match-up for other elves because the S4 shooting puts the pain on T3 with 5+ AS. However, I had my Forest Spirits and in particular the Treeman, who might be difficult for my opponent to deal with. An interesting clash of Wood Elf styles in prospect.

This game we had to roll for each unit to see if it arrived late to the battle. One of my opponent's Dryad units was delayed. For me it was the archers, Waywatchers, BSB and mage. These had to move on in turn one and were limited to their base M5. Deployment was diagonal and ended up with my opponent aggressively dropping his cavalry as close to my lines as possible on my left. Then Treekin (behind a big hill), Glade Guard, Big Glade Guard with BSB and Lord, Glade Guard with Spellweaver, more Glade Guard and both Dryad units right of centre. Eagles behind.

I could see the way this was panning out quite early. My instinct was to rush my combat troops forwards but much of it would have been shot to pieces by the central wall-to-wall archers. So instead I dropped the Stag Lord/Treekin centre-left on my baseline. Then the Treeman, Eternal Guard, Eagle, Branchwraith/Dryads and Glade Riders tucked in behind these (not fancying the arrow storm). So a very tight deployment but I hoped to use the 'reserves' to my advantage by fanning out in a way that would let me attack without exposing my infantry overmuch.

I got first turn and moved the Lord/Treekin slowly towards the enemy horse. The archers (with mage) came on behind these. In contrast the Treeman moved diagonally into centre-field, inviting the arrow storm. Next to him I moved up the Waywatchers so that these two units screened the Eternal Guard (now with BSB), who advanced slowly behind. The Dryads held station with a building on their right, Glade Riders remained tucked in behind. Hail of Doom removed a unit of Glade Riders but the other and a supporting eagle passed their Panic tests.

My opponent moved the other Glade Riders round my flank but their shooting failed. The Wild Riders fell back slightly out of my charge range and were reinforced by his Treekin. Then he let rip. The Lorenlord, all the Flaming shots of the big Archers and Hail of Doom poured into the Treeman. Not a scratch. His other shooting removed a couple of Waywatchers but the Panic test was passed.

I then got in a close range archer volley on the remaining Glade Riders, wiping them out. The Lord/Treekin advanced, inviting a charge from my opponent's Treekin. Waywatchers and Treeman came further forward and the Eternal Guard moved up behind. My eagle flew across to behind the combat troops. Flock of Doom got lucky and panicked a GG unit but he rallied it next turn. The enemy Treekin charged. They lost combat but held. More archery hit Treeman and Dryads, killing a couple of the latter. A big magic phase rolled up and Dwellers on 6-dice was thrown at the Eternal Guard. Luckily no sixes and my bonus DD from the Branchwraith stopped it.

Next turn I got the Eternal Guard's BSB (with Savage Beast up) into the Treekin fight at a corner, killed two and broke the unit, my Treekin running it down. The pursuit contacted some archers but they escaped in my opponents's turn on the flee roll. He threw the Wild Riders into the front of the EG, who held on Stubborn. The Treeman charged and then redirected, failing but rolling a couple of archer units back so they couldn't shoot next turn. On the right my opponent came forward with Dryads and an eagle but I shot the latter and the building blocked the former.

Turn six and no decisive breakthrough. The Wild Riders lost but passed a difficult break test. Dryads tried a speculative flank charge into the Treeman but died horribly. My opponent rallied his archers, almost on the baseline. The fleeing unit was not so lucky and was charged off the board by my eagle. That was it pretty much.

VP's 1016-120

Win.

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 7:15 am 
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The we-book is just crappy nowadays, but you probably knew that. Some things I noticed with WE

Beast lvl 4 with scroll and harp is the only and necessary magic choice for WE army. You just need the beast spear to get wounds to fast moving high toughness stuff. You might take the moonstone instead of harp, but ward save is needed for mage.

You need ranks and only thing that seem to work for me are glade guard, I usually field them 20-30. When you combine the harp ward protection you can field at least one unit larger.

When we are talking about high strength attacks, gw eagle heros and small units of kin are my choice. Size 6 kin unit is ok until you are run over by monstrous cavalry. If you have just 3 it do not matter that much. Gw eagle heros with protection like armour of destiny and dragon helm + 3+ non magical ward can get sometimes things done. Size 9 kin unit can also work, but usually it is out of the unit point allowance limit of comp and has it own risks.

Size 8 fighting skirmisher is not enough, 10 is better. Wd-dryad combo works better than dryad dryad combo in my lists.

Waywatchers are ok, but just cannot find points for them. These also maybe a little bit larger like 7-8

Rest of the units are just too pointwise expensive and underperforming for me.

So shooting gg anvils, eagle hero/small kin hammers, beast magic, skirmishers with reserve and eagle redirecting is my formula.

Edit I forgot to say that usually I get my behind kicked, so there might be a better way...


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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 9:35 am 
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Sounds pretty good so far - I'm looking forward to seeing how it all pans out. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 4:52 pm 
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Thanks guys.

I agree there are several problems with the WE book. Firstly, the cheapest model is 12 points. Secondly, a main strength of the book, S4 shooting, is largely ineffectual against all the armour out there right now. The army struggles for reliably hard-hitting combat troops. But I think exploring some new combinations could make it work.

The Harp is good on big units but 75 Lord points and I like my Stag Lord. Ld10 and as mentioned, this is an army that needs all the heavy hitters it can lay it's hands on. I am tempted to kit him to do more damage in combat and use that M9 a little more effectively. The army is very flexible but M5 limits you. Eagle Nobles are very flexible and useful but I feel this is kind of doubling up on what I'm getting from the Lord. Plus he can join units.

Big units of GG are interesting but I'm going to perservere with the EG. They don't run and if I can get either Wildform or Savage Beast off they can do real damage. Treekin are great for tanking stuff. 3's I might try, though they take charges less well. But the extra drop is great and any kind of combo-charge will hurt the enemy.

The dryads are currently not doing it for me. Great utility unit but I now need points for things that do very specific jobs. I'm strongly considering a unit of 5 Wardancers. As Dave Bednarek said on Asrai, "I wanted the KB". I tried 7 Waywatchers but the unit can die and that's 168 pts. I actually am considering cutting the 120pts for the 5 Waywatchers down to 85 for 5 Scouts. These could have done the same jobs in these three games. Plus they are Core.

But the main thing, the big thing, is to build in some hard-hitting speed.

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 1:48 pm 
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Conclusion

So I finished with 32 TP's /90 and placed 12th/14. Poor but one win from three is going to be like that. I was fighting in the first two games but not well enough and any chances in either evaporated towards the end. Outplayed by the opponents to some extent and the lack of tools in my army to counter theirs did the rest. Game three was much better, I had to think, worked out a solid plan and stuck to it.

So after six tourney games? I've learnt that running at Dwarfs with a Forest-spirit heavy army will always be difficult. Ogres seem a good match-up, had no problems against them. The speed and armour of Warriors of Chaos and Bretonnians are clearly issues, so I need to adapt the list to counter these. The list as stands worked nicely against more shooty Wood Elves, changing it might make this match-up worse but frankly, that's the least of my problems!

:)

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:45 pm 
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Against the Dark Side

Another one-dayer just played. As always, at the OG club run by Ol in Wandsworth. The usual agreeable opponents and mix of abilites and armies, so I was looking forward to it! Seredain and Jal were also in attendance. Comp was SCGT so pretty light. These days, this pack works on 'pool' choices, so nothing is outright banned but the harder armies have only so many of their juicy options available at once. Happily Wood Elves are allowed pretty much free rein, aside from some fairly general but limited restrictions to magic.

I took:

Highborn, Great Stag, Spear of Twilight, Helm of the Hunt, Stone of Crystal Mere, Potion of Strength.
Spellweaver, Lvl4, Beasts, Dispel Scroll, Ironcurse Icon.
BSB, Armour of Silvered Steel, Luckstone.

20 Eternal Guard, FC, Razor.
13 Glade Guard, FC, Flaming banner.
10 Glade Guard
8 Dryads

8 Wild Riders, FC, Gleaming Pennant.
4 Treekin

5 Waywatchers
Treeman
2 Eagles

2500 pts

So quite changed from the previous list. Noteworthy were the Wild Riders, who would be bodyguarding the Stag Lord, the combined unit hopefully providing some much-needed fast punch to the army. The Lord was re-equipped to maximise his combat killing power with the KB Spear and Potion of Strength. Unfortunately this cost me the Hail of Doom arrow. To make up for this I managed to fit in a second unit of archers, 10 strong. I had to drop the Branchwraith and 2 Treekin but had enough points left to fit a second eagle. This took me to 10 deployment drops, clearly better than previous lists. Overall, I was quite happy. It only remained to see whether this was justified!

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:53 pm 
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Hey, cool list bro. :3

I like the Great-stag and the Wild Rider unit in general and this list is definitely built around it. Kind of a Wood Elf version of a cavalry prince list. Hope it went well!


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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:33 pm 
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Cheers man!

:)

Stay tuned for the further adventures of the Stagbus...

Grudge Match

Game One

Warriors of Chaos

The army of the moment. I was still smarting from my game against the chariot list of doom so was keen to do better here. Happily, while he had some powerful stuff, this opponent's list was much more balanced....

Lord of Tzeentch on Disc, Re-roll 1's gift, 3+ Ward, killy stuff.
BSB of Nurgle, Halberd, Shield, maybe some more stuff.
Sorcerer, Death, Lvl2.

24 Nurgle Warriors, FC, Razor Standard, Halberd, Shield.
3 Slaanesh Chariots
2x5 Warhounds, Vanguard.

5 Nurgle Knights, FC.
9 Ogres, Great Weapons.

3 Schoolcrushers

I feel like I've forgotten something but I can't think what. I got the general impression from the game that I was slightly stronger than my opponent. I may be wrong of course.

Chaos drew up as follows, Warhounds on his right, then Crushers, then the Lord, pair of Chariots. The Nurgle Warriors (with BSB and Sorcerer) deployed centrally behind a wood, then the Knights, Ogres, with the third Chariot and remaining Warhounds on his far left.

I dropped the Stagbus late far left to counter the Crushers, then larger archers, an eagle, Waywatchers in my free wood, Treeman. Eternal Guard in the centre flanked on their right by the Treekin. Then the Dryads, another eagle and the smaller archers. BSB and Mage were in the EG.

My opponent threw the Warhounds forward aggressively on my extreme left to draw my cavalry out. I duly charged, wiped them out and reformed, dropping an eagle to block off the planned charge from the Crushers. Next turn both these and his Lord charged the bird, leaving me with a choice of targets. I could try to break the Lord on static res but downed the Potion of Strength and went for the Crushers. Slightly chancey but I was able to force Wildform through, killed two of them and pursued them off the field. Result! More magical joy followed when I was able to Amber Spear one of the chariot tag team heading for my Treeman, so he easily held the other one, which was ground down over a couple of turns.

The centre-left was a bit more worrying. The Nurgle Warriors advanced through the Wood, flanked by their friends the Knights. If anything the Ogres further to the right were even more disconcerting. I went for gold and made a 10" charge with the EG and an 11" with Treekin to combo the Warriors. The eagle held in reserve then flew to block off the Knights. Slightly surprisingly the EG and Treekin did a real number on the Warriors, killing several, then breaking and running them down. Mark of Nurgle not helping against the Stomps of course. With the BSB and Sorcerer dead, things were looking good.

On my right I'd managed to shoot off the Warhounds but had to sacrifice the Dryads and small archers to keep the Chariot and Ogres amused. The Nurgle Knights had by this stage eaten my eagle but with the Chaos centre-right in ruins, the game was pretty much up. There was no time for for the forces on his left to claw back some points and indeed, the Lord barely avoided being Killing Blowed by my Waywatchers. Job done.

16-4 win.

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:46 pm 
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Very nicely played - decisive and quick, like a celto-elf blender horse bus of doom needs to be. Moar please. :3


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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:43 am 
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Well played Sir
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Damn, love the new list, and seeing off WoC, well played Sir!

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:07 pm 
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Green Istari

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Thanks guys!

:)

Obviously this was not the hardest Warriors list possible but it was still a shade stronger than my list, so I feel 16-4 was above par. As you can imagine, I was pleased with the performance of the Stagbus but this win was really down to the combo-charge of the EG and Treekin.

Treekin

I'd wondered how the drop from 6 of these guys to 4 would affect things. The unit becomes less able to fight alone but obviously is less of a points sink, allowing me to draft in extra units, which really helps with deployment. I'd noticed previously that defenders of EG and Treekin on Asrai (notably Shandrakor) constantly stress the importance of combining the two. But somehow I'd forgotten this. As it turned out, the two units together were perfect for seeing off the Warriors, the Treekin tanking and providing kills, the EG breaking Steadfast and removing a couple of guys themselves. In the next two games I didn't use these units in combination and I feel this was a mistake.

So the Treekin at 4 strong seem quite effective as close support to the EG. In this game and the last I ran them 3+1 to maintain a full rank. In game 2 I went 4-wide with cannon in mind. But I'm warming to the idea of 2x2 now. This gives slightly better maneouverability (important to M5 troops lacking a musician) and potentially lets me concentrate more attacks on a small frontage (good for combo-charges). Perhaps most importantly it reduces their frontage and hence makes it easier to deploy.

Magic

The other important feature of this game was the impact of my spells. Some players held in early 8th that you had to have a level 4 to be competitive. Clearly this is wrong, as some players have had plenty of success without. But here, my opponent's unsupported level 2 just couldn't cope with my fairly modest magic phase. The Wildform on the Stagbus and the Amber Spear which took out a chariot were key.

The last time I ran a dispel scroll, it went unused for three games. But at this event, it proved nigh-on essential. Here it stopped an early Spirit Leech on my mage. Sure, I might have been OK anyway but given the impact she very shortly had on the game, it would have been a questionable risk to take.

One regret I have is not a single use of Treesinging to date. I've noticed the possibilities in a couple of games but too late and am still coming to terms with how the army works as a whole. After a bit more practice this could be useful to put wounds on and in particular to give a little surprise movement to a unit once in a while.

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:09 pm 
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Run but you can't hide...

Game 2

Daemons

Not an army Wood Elf players generally enjoy facing because all the attacks are Magical and hence no Forest Spirit saves at all. Plus the Skillcannon murder the big trees. Furthermore, this opponent was better than me, he played the UK Masters this year. He had:

Epidemius
Nurgle BSB
Tzeentch Herald, Lvl2, Metal.

2 x 10 Plaguebearers
2 x 10 Daemonettes
12 Horrors

Beast
2 x 6 Beasts
5 Nurgle Furies

2 x Skillcannon
Nurgle Soulgrinder

After a bit of fencing in deployment he ended up with a heavy flank on my centre-left consisting of both Beasts units and the Grinder. Then Furies, Plaguebearers + Epidemius, Daemonettes, Single Beast, Horrors plus Herald (in a building in the centre of his deployment zone), Plaguebearers, Daemonettes. The cannon were in a corner each.

There was no way I wanted to fight the Beasts frontally, so I dropped the Waywatchers in a building on my left, with an eagle behind. Then small Archers, Eternal Guard (unfortunate), Treeman (criminal), Dryads, Treekin. Another eagle, Stagbus, big archers plus mage. BSB was with the EG.

I had the advantage on my right so came forward quickly with the Stagbus and headed for the cannon, stopping off en route to take out the Plaguebearers. It took a while but I got the cannon in the end, although attrition put paid to all except the Lord by the finish. They were bypassed by the Daemonettes but my big archers killed these out (in combat eventually, with the aid of Wildform).

I got lucky turn one when the other cannon blew up and I burned a scroll to stop Searing Doom taking off the Treeman (should have been deployed behind a building). But the other cannon got him turn two. I rushed the Dryads towards his bunker but completely underestimated a flank charge from the lone Beast, broke and was run down. The Treekin seemed to be making better progress but a couple of killer magic phases finished them.

On my left meanwhile my opponent managed to kill his own BSB with a horrible roll on the Reign of Chaos table! I unwisely left the Waywatchers to be charged by Daemonettes, who wiped them out. The rest of his forces surged around the building, running my small archers off the table. I'd had to use both eagles by this point to stop him simply marching straight across the middle of the table. My Eternal Guard legged it for the right flank. Unfortunately he eventually caught up with them and wiped them out in my turn 6 (the last turn). I had also managed to lose the big archers plus mage to a 3" Flee roll. I'd killed a few things but he was just past the threshold needed for...

0-20

Loss

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:13 pm 
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Well done on the WoC win. Sounds like the Daemons game was rough. I'm happy to get a draw against daemons and that's with a fairly strong HE list. With wood elves... Gulp.

Still, a win and a loss isn't too bad. Did you have some kind of W/L target going into the tournament?

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:58 pm 
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Yes Eli, I did! I rate the current list as my strongest so far, so quite fancied at least a par result over the three games. The fact that Daemons ignore the Forest Spirit Ward and have plenty of Flaming attacks to hurt the big trees makes them a difficult opponent, especially for a Forest Spirit heavy list like mine. But they (Beasts etc. aside) are more vulnerable to S4 shooting than the heavy armour books. I should have used mine better here and in the other games.

Shooting

Although this is a Combined Arms list, it has something of a combat focus, to the extent that I resented having to draft in the second unit of archers at all. For some reason my shooting has not been especially impressive, over all the nine games played so far. But as mentioned, losing the Hail of Doom Arrow pretty much compelled me to up my firepower, even if just to remove chaff and aid board control.

To be honest the only game it made a clear impression was against Wood Elves and there I was substantially outshot! It removes enemy light troops reasonably reliably but only if I deploy it well. There lies the rub because I'm finding that after eagles and possibly Dryads, my archers (as reasonably cheap and non combat-decisive units) tend to go down next as utility drops. This has led to me being unable to focus my fire in the right sectors. I think I need to maybe drop the two archer units close to one another to make the massed shooting count. Encouraging though is that I'm now finding my range and getting in more of the close range volleys that are key.

The Stagbus

A bit of a misnomer as in the current climate this is a distinctly modest unit, with just 8 troopers and a single character! But I almost think of the Stag as a support character, he's a good friend. What can I say about this unit? I love it. It is just really, really good for my army and lets me deal with things I have almost no other answer to. The speed and combat threat let me hunt stuff down I'd otherwise get to far too late.

Obviously, my unit does not carry the threat that Seredain's classic Helm Hammer, or the heavier versions seen these days, do. It can't take charges or grind as well, though it can to some extent. But with the foot BSB virtually essential to let the Eternal Guard function, the Stag Lord is on his own and considering that, the unit remains pretty efficient.

The unit is also fairly decent points denial because it has the speed to get out of trouble. Relying on the conditional 3+ Ward for the Lord looks chancy but so far it's up to the job. At some point I'll fail one and lose him but that's a risk you take. With speed, screens and the ability to get into combat or hunt even the fighting war machines personally, it's so far, so good.

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:23 pm 
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Game 3

Vampire Counts

Ghoul King, Lvl1, Vamp Lore, stuff.
Lvl 3 Necromancer, Vamp Lore, Black Periapt.
Lvl 1 Vampire, ASF, GW, Shadow.
Banshee

40 Zombies
40 Ghouls
3 x 5 Wolves

9 Black Knights, FC.
10 Crypt Horrors.
2 Spirit Hosts

Terrorgheist

So a match-up that Wood Elves generally like, as Forest Spirits eat the Ethereals and the shooting removes the other chaff quite nicely. I must admit I fancied this one, especially as my opponent's list was a bit blocky, with the foot Lord. I reckon my opponent about the same strength as myself, though given the course of this game you may disagree!

My opponent deployed quite tightly around the centre to be close to his general and maximise his first turn's marching. Wolves on my left, then Spirit Host, Banshee, Terrorgheist, Black Knights plus Vampire, Ghouls + King + Necromancer (Zombies behind these), Crypt Horrors, Wolves, Wolves.

I ended up with smaller archers and an eagle on my left, Treeman, Treekin, Eternal Guard plus BSB, Dryads, Eagle, larger archers, Stagbus. Waywatchers Scouted into a wood in the middle of the table. I'd expected a wider deployment from the Vamps and could probably have done with my cavalry centre-left to counter his. My plan to rapidly sweep them around the right might have worked, if I'd won first turn with the +1. But I didn't.

So the enemy wasted no time and marched straight forwards. On the left my archers dealt with the Wolves but could make no impression on the Ethereals. Happily the Treeman removed the Banshee with Strangleroots but was then blocked off by successive units of Zombies that popped up in front of him. It was spooky, like a return to 6th edition! In general my opponent was dominating the magic phases with the aid of the Black Periapt. My own phases kept running into extra DD while he was forcing through the Zombie raises each turn, stopping my big trees cold. The Treekin removed a Sprit Host but were then likewise given the Zombie treatment. I threw the Dryads into the path of the Black Knights and got really lucky when they broke, not getting caught and still blocking the charge path into my other units.

I'd seriously underestimated the Terrorgheist. The first scream removed my 120pt Waywatchers in short order and it then flew behind me, the Treekin getting off more lightly. A long charge into the flank of my Eternal Guard was made and the scream and Thunderstomp hurt big time (I'd considered fleeing the charge). I made the combat reform though and forced through a bubbled Savage Beast which duly saw me put the six wounds on. Huge sigh of relief!

On the right I got completely tangled up. The Wolves were used well and by the time I got past them, a wall of Crypt Horrors faced my cavalry. Didn't fancy it, so backed off. The larger archers were completely out of position. I really could have done with their shooting against the Terrorgheist or maybe even the CH's. At this point my son turned up and began to cause trouble! I felt bad about it but offered my opponent a 5-15 to call it a day, as although VP's were about equal, he was on top positionally. He sportingly agreed and that was that.

5-15

Loss

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:30 pm 
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Eternal Guard

These remain a controversial unit. In a meta of 1+ Armour Saves and super-speed, a unit of M5 S3 infantry does not look impressive. Indeed, unsupported they have not done well. But I believe that with other units doing their jobs properly around them, they are beginning to show.

The combat against the Nurgle Warriors was a case in point. 1 to 1 this is not going to end well. But with a small unit of Treekin thrown in, the enemy broke first round. Even 3 deep was enough to break Steadfast and WS5 and T bonus from Wildform reduce the amount of damage they will take, together with the support charge reducing the attacks the enemy could put on them. Meanwhile the Treekin take almost no damage and (aided by Stomp which doesn't roll to hit) put wounds on. The EG provide the static res Treekin lack and job's a good 'un.

The other reassuring combat was against the Terrorgheist. The damage taken from the scream and the T-stomp was nasty but the combat reform meant the whole front rank (with 2 attacks each) could fight, the characters (buffed by Savage Beast) proving deadly at the corners. Even S3 attacks are good in numbers against high T opponents who lack decent saves.

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:05 pm 
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Good points, and I think that you actually get some benefit from people underestimating the unit, e.g. in the case of the Terrorgheist. At my last Waaaagh my VC opponent was absolutely crestfallen that his Terrorgheist didn't walk through my Archers (very similar to the Eternal Guard in combat ability!), even though he rolled well above average (2 screams at LD10, and 2 rounds of attacks including thunderstomps killing all 21, and indeed the beast should have died before the last set of attacks to a Savage Beast BSB and Silver Helms hitting it in the flank for round 2). I still think I'd see easy points staring across at so many Eternal Guard though ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:13 pm 
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Green Istari

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Thanks Stormie.

I know of Wood Elf players who run archer hordes as a kind of subsitute for the EG's benefits, while packing some serious S4 shooting. Clearly you keep Steadfast pretty well and as mentioned, mass S3 attacks will hurt anything lacking a decent save. The reason I like the EG though, is that although they start at the same S3 as other elf Core infantry, this comes with 2 attacks per model and WS5 and can be cranked up with Razor Standard and Wildform to the point where they actually kill things.

The other advantage is being Stubborn so long as the BSB lives (hence his tank load-out) which means they are very unlikely to break unless all the EG die in a single round. This can happen but usually when the rest of the battle has gone bad and my units are no longer able to help each other out. It's all about learning to play the list really. There is a question mark over whether the WE book can provide the right blend of support units to make them work but I am optimistic.

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:54 pm 
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Conclusion

So a bit of deja vu really, finishing 9th/12. Initially I was a bit down about the army's performance (and my own!) but on reflection I feel it was about par. The 16-4 vs Warriors was better than expected. 0-20 vs Daemons reflected the difficulty of the match-up but what sealed this was my opponent playing like the strong player he is and me not playing awfully but just averagely, which was not enough. 5-15 vs VC's was a letdown but just as I overperformed game one, I played badly here and my opponent played well. In particular I was thoroughly out-deployed, which is something I can work on.

So on the whole I'm inclined to keep the list as is. I suspect I will get better at using it and will then get a proper picture of how well it can do. I'm somewhat inclined to drop the Waywatchers, as they did little here but other match-ups may justify them, so they stay for now I think. I have vague ideas about drafting in more mobile killing power, a bit of research needed here. Overall though the army plays better than before and using the Stagbus was a blast!

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:46 pm 
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They Say The Darkest Hour...

So, finally, more Warhammer. I rocked up on Saturday at Ill Blood, a 3-game event run by the Corehammer guys at Dark Sphere in south London. A pretty strong field of 24, Uncomped, 2400pts. I brought:

Highborn, Great Stag, Spear of Twilight, Helm of the Hunt, Stone of the Crystal Mere, Potion of Strength.
Spellweaver, Beasts, Dispel Scroll, Ironcurse Icon.
BSB, Armour of Silvered Steel, Luckstone.

10 Glade Guard
13 Glade Guard, FC, Flaming banner.
8 Dryads
20 Eternal Guard, FC, Razor.

8 Wild Riders, FC, Gleaming Pennant.
3 Treekin

5 Waywatchers
Treeman
2 Eagles

So basically a stripped-down version of the 2500 list. Dropped one of the Treekin and the Lvl4 upgrade from the mage, to fit under the 600pts Lords cap. I was a bit concerned about this but felt that I should be able to get by defensively, while the Stag Lord needed all his toys to do his job properly. I toyed with the idea of re-equipping the BSB with Paired Flaming Weapons, 2+ Ward on last wound and Dragonhelm but went with the armour.

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:52 pm 
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Groundhog Day

Game 1 - Daemons

My opponent (a strong player) had a hard list with lots of speed and Flaming attacks all over the place. Just the sort of thing Wood Elves struggle against:

Lord of Change, killy gifts.
Nurgle BSB, Fencer's Blades.
Blue Scribes

10 Horrors, Std.
10 Horrors, Std.
25 Plaguebearers, FC.

4 Beasts
5 Plague Drones, Flaming Std.
5 Furies
5 Furies (Tzeentch)

Skillcannon
Skillcannon

We both refused the same flank (my right, his left). So I had from centre-right to left Eagle, Treeman (there was a wall there!), Eternal Guard plus BSB, Treekin, Dryads, Big Archers, Small Archers plus mage, Wild Riders plus Lord, Eagle. Against this, he had Plague Drones, Plaguebearers, Furies, Lord of Change, Furies, Horrors, Beasts, Blue Scribes, Skillcannon, Skillcannon.

I won first turn, threw an eagle forwards to block one cannon and the cavalry to threaten both. The rest of the line edged forwards with shooting not achieving much. My opponent charged the eagle with one cannon and backed off with the other, which was thwarted by my Lord's 3+ Ward. Turn 2 I killed the eagle cannon over two rounds with the cavalry and charged the other turn three. I got it eventually but my Lord died in the process. The Riders weren't finished though! They reformed and chewed through Furies and Horrors as well.

On my right, the Treeman, delighted not to be Skilled off the board this time ran straight into the Plague Drones. Quite why I didn't see the Flaming banner coming I don't know but it murdered him. I flank charged with the Eternal Guard but only killed one. I was then flanked myself by the Plaguebearers. Curse of Anraheir helped here but only delayed the inevitable and the Nurgle boys ate them too.

In the centre I'd carelessly left the Treekin within charge reach of the Lord of Change and my opponent duly rolled the 10 he needed to contact and break them. He pursued, destroying them and then flew over behind my left to intercept my big Archer unit. He duly ate this over a couple of turns.

So with my combat units dead, it was a case of mopping up for him. The Dryads got a unit of Furies and the Waywatchers KB'd the Blue Scribes but that was about it. Only my mage remained at the end of the game. I'd got 646 VP's but that was against 2430.

0-20

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:36 am 
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So could I have done much better? I'm not sure. Of course a stronger player would have avoided some of the mistakes I made but I really think it was a case of damage limitation in this match-up, he might have pulled a few points back but a good player on the Daemon side should win this against almost anyone. I think it was a par result for me. A bit depressing but there you go.

Magic

This went well, in all three games. Each time I was faced with a Lvl4 plus support caster(s) and each time my level 3 pretty much held his own. Adroit use of the scroll in each game averted the worst, this is now a must-take for me. The spell selection was a bit of a problem but basically just made me focus on how best to use what I came up with. For example in game 2 I had to keep my characters close to make best use of Savage Beast etc.. I didn't get it off but the threat of it let me get Wildform off. That said I do miss my 5-spell High Magic phase and I'm really hoping for a more powerful phase from the new army book. A plus point was actually casting Treesinging! My opponent stopped it to save a unit of Skinks in a wood but again it was drawing dice.

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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:17 pm 
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That's a horrific Daemon list to play against, yuuk. Hope to see games 2 and 3 posted soon!


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 Post subject: Re: Baptism of Fire
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:24 pm 
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The Cavalry Prince

Game 2 - Lizardmen

My opponent (who I feel I was slightly better than, though I may be doing him an injustice) had:

Slann, BSB, Signature Spells, Multi-Channels with Channelling Rod.
Skink Priest, Heavens, Scroll.

20 Saurus, FC.
10 Skinks
10 Skinks
10 Skinks
10 Skinks
10 Skinks

12 Kroxigor
20 Temple Guard, FC.
5 Chameleon Skinks

Ancient Stegadon

So not the scariest list for my army to face. Of course, magic would be an issue. But crucially, this list was less maneouverable than mine, giving me a chance to get on top in the movement phase. As mentioned before, my list owes a debt to Seredain's original Cavalry Prince list from the old HE book and I remembered his analyses well as I approached this game.

My opponent had a couple of units of Skinks on the left (my left), one with the Priest, then the TG with more Skinks behind these, housing the Slann. Then the Kroxigor, Ancient, Saurus, Skinks, Skinks. I had blocked off the most juicy deployments for the Chameleons so they lurked on my far right side. I dropped an eagle at the 12" intersection each side. Dryads were on my left and then both units of archers, then the EG with both characters. Treekin to their right and then the cavalry, with my Treeman to the right of these. Waywatchers Scouted forwards centre-right.

I was happy with this. Confident I could deal with the Skinks. I'd also learned since my VC game, where I deployed the cavalry out wide, instead of centre-left where they could menace the weak point in his deployment, the Black Knights. Here I had them centre-right, the weak point was the Ancient and they were perfectly placed to charge it turn 2 and punch a hole through the enemy line.

My opponent won first turn and rushed forwards with his Skinks on my right, shooting my eagle dead. They then swept around my right flank and sniped at stuff. Later I shot one unit straight off with my big archers, panicking the Chameleons, which pretty much ended the threat there. I offered the Saurus a charge on my Treeman which he took, as I'd unwisely left my General out of 12". I held on Stubborn 8 though and proceeded to grind the Saurus down, getting them all by the end of the game. The Treeman was too far away to intervene in the centre by that stage.

Similarly on my left my opponent rushed his Skinks forwards and unleashed a barrage of spells from the Slann, using the Skink Priest as a conduit to get them in range. I was forced to burn my scroll to stop a Spirit Leech on my BSB. In my turn I charged both units back (first one fled and I redirected) with my Dryads, giving my opponent a range problem. He responded by rolling up another big phase and 6-dicing a 3D6 fireball at my Treekin, putting 4 wounds on them. He then Cascaded his Slann.

But it was in the centre that the decisive action took place. He'd advanced rapidly with the Krox, Ancient in support. I dropped an eagle in front of the former and the Waywatchers in front of the steg. This let me move the EG and Cavalry up in safety. The Ancient charged and caught the 'watchers, the roll putting it perfectly in place for a cavalry charge. In they went, killing it straight and overrunning into the flank of the Krox. In my opponent's turn I won this combat but the Krox held and made the reform roll. No worries because I had the EG 5" away for a perfect flank charge.

The EG rolled a 4. The cavalry then held for two turns, dying slowly but putting some damage on. In my next turn I charged the Treekin into a screening Skink unit and overran into the combat. The EG went into the other flank. Some bad dice later, I lost combat by one. The Treekin failed re-rollable 7. The EG promptly failed re-rollable 9. He pursued and caught them.

The game was up. Some brief skirmishing followed but when we counted the points up it was...

6-14 loss. A tragedy.

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