Baptism of Fire

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SpellArcher
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#151 Post by SpellArcher »

Thanks Davariel.

:)

Back in the mists of time (before their current book) I found Bretts a decent match-up for my Wood Elves (again before their 6th edition book). In particular I had good combat Skirmishers then who could slip past the wedge-shaped Lances.

Now I find it harder to get past the Lances and in particular the extra charge distance Virtue really complicates things. Wild Riders will kill most of his stuff on the charge but are outranged by multiple flyers. He can also Flee charges (WR's can't), then charge and kill the Riders. A Lance with two Paladins and a Champion can hold and beat WR's. Having Core entirely of M5 infantry kind of cedes the speed advantage to the Bretts. The shooting can hurt them but there is a big difference between my list with seven Waywatchers and a standard one with twenty. Yes it would be easier!

Grail Knights are a bit of an endangered species but they did a great job for my opponent here.
SpellArcher
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#152 Post by SpellArcher »

Burning Down The House

Another couple of months, another tournament. This time London's Burning, run by the South London Legion in Croydon. 2500pt, 64 players, comp pack linked earlier. 5 games over two days. The TO's had had some stick for their first event, London's Calling last year so this was better planned and executed, reviews positive on the whole so far. I took:

Stag Lord, Ogre Blade, Charmed Shield, 4++
Lvl 4 Beasts, Opal Amulet, Scroll, Moonstone
Ancient, lvl4
BSB, GW, Horsi, 4+ Ward Armour, Shield

10 Hagbane, Std, Music
10 Hagbane, Std, Music
21 Eternal Guard, Shields, FC, Gleaming

7 Sisters, Razor, Music
5 Wild Riders, Eternal Flame, Shields

7 Waywatchers
5 Waywatchers
2 x Eagles

So I had 100pts more to spend than at Ill Blood. 600 VP's were up for grabs from Fortitude each game so my first 20 went on standards for the Hagbane, which also got me over min Core. Unimpressed with the Starfire and needing more clout vs armour, I spent 15 upgrading them to Waywatchers. I then blew 20 on Eternal Flame for the WR's, covering vs Regen and cranking Fortitude up further. I'm always happier with a second eagle, so another 50pts. Thus 5pts over, so Potion of Foolhardiness bit the dust. I was ready to roll.
sparkytrypod
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#153 Post by sparkytrypod »

More please :D
death is lighter than a feather, duty heavier than a mountain

do an rpg personality test, im from Ireland and I get...

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SpellArcher
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#154 Post by SpellArcher »

Your wish is my command...

Rudely Interrupted

Game One - Ogre Kingdoms

Slaughtermaster, lvl4 Heavens, Fencers Blades, Stuff
BSB, GW, Stuff
Firebelly, Stuff
Butcher, lvl2 Maw, Scroll

8 Ironguts, FC, Lookout, Std of Discipline
7 Ogres, FC

7 Leadbelchers, Std, Musician
7 Leadbelchers, Std, Musician
2 x Sabretusk

2 x Ironblaster

So not that different from the Ogre list I fought at Ill Blood. Slightly fewer Leadbelchers but including the Firebelly. My opponent had Leadbelchers and Sabretusk opposite my left. Then Gutstar (all characters), Ogres and the other Leadbelchers and Sabretusk centre-right. Pretty compact, with the Ironblasters behind and fairly central. I had Wild Riders far right, then an eagle. Waywatchers next, then Sisterbus and EG. Some archers central in a building, Ancient hiding behind. More Waywatchers, the other eagle, with more archers (an early decoy drop) in my Venom Thicket centre-left.

I should mention that each player had to bring a building, which he then placed prior to rolling for table sides. Mine went down centrally, my opponent stuck his on a flank and table sides remained the same. My plan was to refuse the left and focus all my archery on the other Leadbelchers, while swinging my cavalry around to get at the Ironblasters. I won first turn.

Wary of the Leadbelchers, which had shot them clean off last game, the Wild Riders made a wide circuit around the right. I was less concerned about the Sisterbus, with it's ward saves, so that trundled forwards alongside the EG. Annoyingly, I'd failed to roll up Amber Spear so magic was pretty low-key. Shooting took off a couple of Leadbelchers. My opponent wheeled his army, holding on my right and stomping forwards centre and left. Magic did little but the first Ironblaster took out my Lord's Charmed Shield. The second misfired, destroying it's cannon. The Leadbelchers shot off some Waywatchers.

The Wild Riders had been blocked off by a Sabretusk but they nipped around the back and got past the charge arc of the nearest Ironblaster. My bus was too far for a charge so advanced again, while I blocked off the Gutstar with an eagle. Magic again poor but shooting removed more Leadbelchers. At this point I was pretty happy. Charges were set up, shooting was going my way, I seemed in control. Then a cannonball went straight through my general.

Bugger.

So I had to change tack. The Wild Riders went into the Ironblaster's flank. The Sisterbus, having regained Fast Cav, nipped around and sat in front of the Ogres. These then ate a ton of shooting, including poisoned javelins, to great effect. The WR's duly destroyed the blaster and overran into the remains of the Leadbelchers. The other Leadbelchers cleaned up the Waywatchers but the Gutstar was still clearing eagles. The Wild Riders wiped out the Leadbelchers in my opponent's turn and overran again.

Thanks to a big roll, they now charged the second Ironblaster in my turn. Shooting removed the Ogres and the blaster duly died. The other Leadbelchers took off my left archers. Turn five proved the last, the Gutstar still couldn't fight anything and I took off the Sabretusks.

10-10
Andros123
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#155 Post by Andros123 »

Looking at both your armylists I would definitely have put my money on the ogres. All those leadbelchers and 2 cannons are just not good for your army.

So a 10-10 is a really good result in my book at least. Congratulations on what I would consider a great result.
How do you feel about it yourself?
SpellArcher
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#156 Post by SpellArcher »

Thanks Andros but I consider this pretty much a par match-up.

The Waywatchers skirmish and with the free wood I can reliably find cover for the Hagbane. This means the Leadbelchers are on sixes to hit until they close to 12". Which takes time and can be tricky with my cavalry threatening charges (Leadbelchers being unable to stand and shoot of course). Poison is of course great vs Ogres and Waywatcher multi-shot isn't too shabby either, considering T4 and no armour save. I shudder to think what the typical 100-shot WE list does to them.

In five WE games vs this enemy through 8th edition I've never had to fight the Gutstar. The Blasters are an issue. As here I can usually count on screening the Treeman from one of them, so as here he has a decent chance. I made a mistake by not moving my Stag Lord up more aggressively, so was unable to charge turn 2. TBH I've only lost him once to a cannonball before in twenty-six 8th edition tournament games and that because I didn't kit him out properly. But these things are delicate and the cannon always give the Ogre player a chance of just picking something off for big points. My last game against them I got a blaster early with Amber Spear, it was a big miss here.

Wild Riders Are Bent Folks

Which of course we all knew. But this quote from Dr Strangelove of Asrai.org sums things up nicely. My little unit of five went through Leadbelchers and both Ironblasters. Fast Cav is just so good for setting charges up and the damage output is ridiculous. It's sobering to reflect that I could have brought 3 x 10 under this medium comp!

In my second game I made a mistake and lost them to an Oldblood but at least they took time to die. Game three they took out a Doomwheel. Game four they were charged by Vargheists and wiped them out round one. Last game they went through Horrors, pinning the Bloodthirster behind with the Overrun so although they died I got an extra round of shooting at him.
sparkytrypod
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#157 Post by sparkytrypod »

Hey SA,

nice game, its tough to get points out of the gutstar!

Ancient have any impact? Or was he staying out of sight?
Could he have treewhacked every character out of that star... :D

also why razor on the sisters? With the stag takin fast cav off them maybe the movement banner?

Wild riders... give me the shivers, my regular wood elf opponent usually runs 3 units of 6...tricky!

And as usual...next game please :lol:
death is lighter than a feather, duty heavier than a mountain

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Re: Baptism of Fire

#158 Post by SpellArcher »

I feel Ogres are a difficult game for the Ancient. Not just because of the cannon. I've tried Treeman vs Gutstar before and he lasted two rounds. The Ancient can challenge but he refuses and pours S6 attacks in. I kept him alive here though and with better play should have held the Stag Lord too.

I've got two fighting characters in the Sisters, I need to give them the best chance of killing things. In particular, AP can be really good vs re-rollable armour saves. It also helps the S3 Poison of the Sisters themselves. M10 is good but if I really need speed I can always pull the Stag Lord out of the unit and move both without restriction.

Nickeled and Dimed

Game Two - Lizardmen

Slann, BSB, 3 x Channelling, Re-roll Dispels, Re-roll Miscast, All Sig Spells
Oldblood, 1+ AS, 4+ Ward, Magic Sword
Scar-vet, Cold One, Light Armour, GW, Stuff
Priest, lvl 2 Heavens, Scroll
Priest, lvl2 Heavens, Scroll
Priest, lvl 1 Beasts

20 Cohort, Std, Musician
20 Cohort, Std, Musician
19 Cohort, Musician
4 x 10 Skirmishers, Javelin, Shield

28 Temple Guard, FC, Swiftness
3 Terradons
5 Chameleons

This guy was good. UK Masters and ETC player. His list had lots of magic and short ranged shooting with some solid fighters to back it up. The Slann and Temple Guard went fairly central. He had a cohort, a couple of skirmisher units, the terradons and the oldblood facing my left. The rest of the Core faced my right, the scar-vet sitting in one cohort. Chameleons scouted far forwards on my right. I ended with Wild Riders, Sisterbus, Waywatchers and Eagle on my left. Then the Hagbane, Eternal Guard, Ancient, Eagle. The other Waywatchers went down in my deployment zone on the right, in position to charge his Scouts if I got first turn.

This was duly achieved, the Chameleons fled and were caught. On the left I decided to attack with my cavalry, with the aim of outflanking the TG. I messed up the execution though, completely missing a charge from the Oldblood into my Wild Riders. These held but were ground down. Terradons came down my flank but were shot off. I pushed ahead with the bus but the skinks shimmied around it, leaving me with no charges and eating a ton of javelins. The bus ended up moving right round the back of his line, simply to escape the incessant Poison. I lost all the Sisters but the armoured characters survived.

On the right I managed to dispose of some skirmishers but the Waywatchers were tracked down and shot off by a cohort. The eagles were used up to delay the TG and I got the EG into another cohort. Magic though, was hurting and the Wildformed Cohort shot some elves off and held. This combat stuck as I Regrew the EG but they then ate a flank charge from the TG and died T6. The scar-vet took my Ancient on and looked to be winning until I got Savage Beast off and scrolled a hex, letting the six S8 attacks take their toll.

At this point I ran with everything, having no chance to harvest more points myself. The magic was just too strong though, both lvl4's and all unit standards going down by the end. I was thus broken and lost by a heavy margin.

0-20 (0-16 after capping)
sparkytrypod
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#159 Post by sparkytrypod »

Ouch!
I find the loremaster to be exellent against wood elves so i can only imagine that a lvl 4 slaan with all the sigs must be brutal.

What do you make of the skink cohorts? I dont see many lizard man players in these parts. So i dont know what to make of that list really.

Who was the player though?

True about the AP banner.
death is lighter than a feather, duty heavier than a mountain

do an rpg personality test, im from Ireland and I get...

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SpellArcher
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#160 Post by SpellArcher »

Magic

Yeah, the magic missiles are bad news. But especially when backed up by six channels and the save die ability (which I forgot to list). +4 to dispel and a scroll are decent but that kind of magical firepower is going to hurt at some point. I defended the phase OK in the other games. I think the answer is to make inroads with shooting and combat. But this match-up is not easy, a -1 maybe. I should definitely play the cavalry better.

Interestingly, I actually managed to get a couple of decent spells through. The Savage Beast that turned the Ancient/Scar-vet fight and the Regrowth that sustained the EG and stuck a wound back on the Ancient. Overall the 5-die cap hurt the effectiveness of Dwellers. Amber Spear came up trumps in game five. The ability to spam buffs mid-games was useful but given the largely mediocre fighting power of my units, rarely decisive. It also hurt that in several games I faced Deathstars I found myself unable to combo-charge effectively.

The cohorts are pretty standard. There's nothing terribly unusual about this list, it's popular and effective. The player was Mo Ashraf.
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#161 Post by sparkytrypod »

Ah i know the name.

how have you found 2 units of hagbane? Would one of trueflight have been of benefit? Also your thoughts on tge eyernal guard and their role? And of course any list evolution! :D

Im sure you will do a round up, so you can leave off any of my questions if you want!
death is lighter than a feather, duty heavier than a mountain

do an rpg personality test, im from Ireland and I get...

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SpellArcher
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#162 Post by SpellArcher »

Enchanted Arrows

There were several points in this event where I missed Trueflight. It's great for shooting skinks of course. In game three I struggled to hit Gutter Runners. In game four my opponent screened his Vargheists very effectively. I've used it before and it did fairly well. The issue is whether I can manage without Hagbane. In game five it was vital. As outlined earlier, the primary point of Hagbane here is to take down fast, high toughness models which in another army would be dealt with by artillery. I just can't afford to let these roam free. There are other reasons for favouring these arrows, for example they're better against Leadbelchers than Trueflight.

There's no denying that always hitting on 3's is great. But the kind of things it's good against (skirmishers, small screened units) are generally not as much of a threat as the good Hagbane targets. Skinks are of course a problem en masse and Wood Elves look a very difficult match-up but without substantially more shots, converting to Trueflight won't make a massive difference. More shots are always good of course and I've looked at adding a unit of Scouts or taking a mix of the two arrows. But TBH I only have a few more archer models so I will probably soldier on and see if better use of my combat troops and magic missiles can make a difference.

Eternal Guard

These were especially useful twice in my last tournament, mainly for the ranks. Being Core helps them because it frees me up to take other stuff elsewhere. Stubborn (in reasonable numbers) is of course great because they don't suddenly run and leave a gaping hole in my line. They're a relatively safe place to keep my mage and can combo-charge effectively with the cavalry.

In this event however, their influence was limited. Game one they avoided the Gutstar while shooting and Wild Riders did my damage. Game two they got stuck in to a cohort but were then flanked by TG and ground down. Game three they took the usual punishment Skaven dish out to blocks but at least surived to help kill a Slave unit. Game four they failed a 7" combo-charge and had to hide thereafter. Game five was pretty much decided before they had to engage.

From a points-denial viewpoint they were good, only dying in one game. I'm inclined to keep them, I like the option to stand and fight and they are key to this.
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#163 Post by SpellArcher »

Stuck On You

Game Three - Skaven

Grey Seer, Power Scroll, 4++
Warlord, Fellblade, Litter
Engineer, lvl1, Scroll
Engineer, Doomrocket
Engineer, Stuff

40 Stormvermin, FC
20 Clanrats, FC
50 Slaves
50 Slaves
50 Slaves
50 Slaves

3 Rat Darts
7 Gutter Runners
7 Gutter Runners

2 x WLC
Doomwheel
Abomination

My opponent had the Stormvermin in the centre with the Warlord, in front of the Seer's clanrat bunker. Two slave blocks and a rat dart defended the flank opposite my left with a cannon and finally the Abomination. Similarly on the right, except the Doomwheel held the Abom position. I had a unit of Waywatchers far left, then Sisterbus, eagle, EG. In the centre the Ancient, then Hagbane in my building. Then more Hagbane, Eagle, Waywatchers, Wild Riders.

I won first turn and basically held position, intending to deal with the Abom and Doomwheel before any attack. A wound was shot off the former (Storm Banner was active and lingered) and I think I got Throne of Vines up. My opponent advanced along the line with the aforementioned bad boys running in advance of the rest. Plague on the EG drew my scroll. My second turn saw eagles dropped defensively and the Wild Riders backed off into the corner. A second wound from the Abom and I believe Dwellers was scrolled.

Then the game came alive. My opponent charged and killed both eagles, overrunning aggressively. Plague hit the EG again, killing about 10 then ending. Gutter Runners appeared behind me and shot up my Waywatchers. I responded by hitting the Abom with bus and EG, the Wild Riders charging the Doomwheel. I got the Treeman into a slave block, past the charge arc of the Stormvermin. Hagbane removed a cannon. Both charges destroyed their targets and I reformed facing forwards.

The Gutters continued to shoot me up. Keen to kill things, the bunker advanced, blocking the Stormvermin off. Oddly, Dreaded 13th was cast on Waywatchers and removed them. I charged the Abom-killers into another slave unit, destroying it over two rounds. I couldn't grind through the next unit though and the game ended before anything more decisive could happen.

10 -10
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#164 Post by SpellArcher »

The game started well, with both random movers removed. But I hadn't even noticed the Fellblade Warlord when I deployed because my opponent forgot to tell me about him alongside the other characters. Instead he simply went down as part of the Stormvermin. I was hence faced with a unit that was very bad news for my Ancient and for my bus, assuming the Stag Lord failed to kill the Warlord in one round. I ended up rushing them past the Stormvermin and into the Slaves but of course these took time to die. So overall I was a bit lucky my opponent didn't manage to get his unit into mine. I guess I might have deployed the Ancient on a flank, had I known.

Regeneration

Last event, I included a unit of Starfire Scouts in order to deal with Regen, worst offender being the Chimaera. But they did not achieve much. The only relevant target was of Trolls vs WoC and it turned out I had more pressing things to shoot. So for this tournament I upgraded them to Waywatchers, as I'd fought a couple of armour-heavy lists at Ill Blood and felt a lack. Did this leave me exposed to Regen?

Not really. I was able to shoot a couple of wounds off the Abom before finishing it in combat. In game four focused Poison shot down a Varghulf before it could fight. In game five there was no way I was going to target Beasts with big flyers on the table. I did add Eternal Flame to the Wild Riders to cover the lack but vs here for example, my opponent had more drops and they found themselves far from the Abomination. I'm wondering whether to keep this banner for their next outing.
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#165 Post by SpellArcher »

Charge of the Light Brigade

Game Four - Vampire Counts

Vampire Lord, Lvl 1 Death, Beguile, Red Fury, ASF, Stuff
Vampire Lord, Lvl 1 Vampires, Beguile, Stuff
Necromancer Lord, Lvl 4 Vampires.

43 Ghouls
20 Zombies, Std
20 Zombies, Std
20 Zombies, Std

3 Vargheists
3 Vargheists
5 Hexwraiths
Spirit Host
Spirit Host
Corpse Cart

Varghulf

I was happy to see VC's. Traditionally a good match-up for Wood Elves because we tend to shoot the support off, as in my last game against them where I tabled them. The above list was not that scary, I felt more relaxed than the first day and that it was about time I chalked up a win. Obviously I'd have to watch the Vamp Lords. But my opponent had not read the script.

Opposite my far left, the Hexwraiths went down with Zombies behind in the corner. Then Vargheists, then the Ghouls in Horde with all three characters, Corpse Cart behind. More Zombies dead-centre of the deployment zone, Vargheists in front then Varghulf. A bit of a gap, then both Spirit Hosts and Zombies in the corner. I had both units of Waywatchers on my left. Then Sisterbus, Eagle, Ancient. A unit of Hagbane in my central building. Then EG, Hagbane in my Venom Thicket, Eagle, Wild Riders.

I won first turn but stayed back in the main, wary of the Horde and also of the Spirit Hosts. Magic and shooting achieved little. In his turn, my opponent kept the Hexwraiths back, out of range of my Hagbane and flew Vargheists behind them. The Horde advanced and more Vargheists crept forwards behind a central building. This effectively nullified my fire as the Waywatchers were at -5 to hit the Vargheists and the Hagbane out of range of decent targets. Keen to do something, I pushed the Wild Riders forwards and removed one of the Spirit Hosts.

I had a brief scare as the central Vargheists declared a long charge I hadn't even seen into my building. They failed which was just as well because the Stand and Shoot was at -4 and achieved nothing. The Varghulf flew past my Wild Riders to threaten my infantry. The Horde rolled forwards into charge range. I had a decision to make. Back off and feed on scraps or go for a triple charge on the Horde. The bus was certain to get in but the Ancient needed a five and the EG a seven.

Buoyed by successful memories of a similar charge at the same point last tournament I went for it. The Ancient rolled a three. So did the EG. The bus would fight alone. It killed a lot of Ghouls but was wiped out over two rounds. At least on the right the Vargulf was shot up, finally dying to the Stand and Shoot of the Hagbane.

The game became a grim struggle to hold Fortitude and points. The central Vargheists charged the Wild Riders and killed four but lost so badly they vapourized, crucially leaving my standard bearer. I lost both units of Waywatchers to charges but kept the Horde at bay with Eagles. A last-gasp Vampire charge out of the Horde into my building killed eight of the ten Hagbane but the Break test was passed and I held the vital standard to remain unbroken.

5-15
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#166 Post by SpellArcher »

Should I have charged? My opponent made the point that on average, I should have got one unit in alongside the cavalry and that he had to risk a triple charge by pushing forwards. If three units get in I probably win. Two probably favours my opponent but I may hang on long enough to get the third in. I still think it was the right call. One thing I definitely should have done was to move the Ancient and EG up to just outside his charge distance the turn before. I might also have considered dropping an eagle and the moving the Ancient up so the overrun into him lets me add my other units in my turn. I have to watch for an extra charge into him though, which might let the horde fight twice after killing the eagle.

Overall, keeping the Vargheists covered was very clever and really put me under pressure. Perhaps I should have deployed the Hagbane on the left rather than in the central tower. Then I have almost the whole board covered re Hexwraiths, forcing his hand. Of course, with fewer drops I am likely to be out-deployed in some way.

Combo-charges

One reason I feel I didn't do great at this tourney (I am on 25pts with one game to go!) is that I didn't get these in. They are difficult to organise at the best of times but my army is designed to set them up (Stubborn, Treeman, 2 x cavalry). Against this vamp horde I can't afford to take a charge with just the Ancient or EG because the lords chop them to pieces before I can reinforce. Same with the Gutstar, same with the Stormvermin. Game two's TG give me more leeway but there I messed up the cavalry. Of course the five dice casting cap makes Dwellers less of a natural counter to these units.

Because of this I've actually considered dropping the Ancient and drafting six Treekin back in. WTF? The trick here is to run them with a lvl4 on Unicorn with High Magic. So their Ward improves to 4+ vs spells and Protection Counters soak up damage. Break tests remain an issue but I can put Crown of Command on the mage. The big advantage of this unit is I don't have to hide it from cannon, so can get it into position more easily. The problem is this set-up loses both Amber Spear and the strength buffs. The unit also lacks flexibility without a musician, though the movement spells of High Magic mitigate this.
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#167 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi SA,

Thanks a lot for highlights and insight about the tournament and the army! You make me want to start WE :) A quick comment at the moment, I would love to see Tree Kin in the way you suggest. I think it would work very well and ability to "ignore" cannons in the way Treeman cannot is a fantastic idea!

Cheers!
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#168 Post by SpellArcher »

Thanks SM. I have to say I enjoy very much the variety in my army.

I've considered the High Magic Unicorn for a while now. It's a very versatile model which also adds value to cavalry or infantry, most guys simply run it solo. Lots has been written about it on Asrai.org.

So by this stage I was a bit deflated. I'd had to struggle and fight to get to 25pts. Sure, a big win in the last round would give some mid-table respectability but this was far from assured. Still, once more unto the breach. I took a lunch break then headed back to see what I'd be facing.

Nemesis

Game Five - Daemons

Bloodthirster of Wrath
Slaanesh Daemon Prince, lvl4
Nurgle BSB, Regen Locus, Fencers Blades

30 Plaguebearers, FC
10 Horrors, Std
10 Horrors, Std

6 Beasts
5 Furies
2 Nurgling Bases

Skillcannon

I looked with some trepidation at the Core and especially the Beasts. My two previous 8th edition games vs this enemy had ended 0-20. My opponent confirmed that this Bloodthirster was extremely powerful in combat. However, it remained a 5-wound model with 5+/5+ saves. Similarly, I knew what Cacophonic Choir for example could do but the DP was killable.

My opponent Scouted the Nurglings in my bottom left corner. Opposite my left he dropped the Beasts, fairly early. I was pleased to see this, a central deployment would have been more worrying as I would struggle to deal with this unit. Then the Furies, Horrors and Plaguebearers. Next his building, then Daemon Prince, more Horrors (Skillcannon behind) and finally the Bloodthirster. I'd dropped a unit of Hagbane fairly early in my Venom Thicket on the left. This hung them out to dry somewhat but it helped draw attention. Then an Eagle and a gap to my building, more Hagbane inside, Ancient behind. Then Sisterbus, Eternal Guard, Eagle, Wild Riders (who Vanguarded forwards slightly). Finally both units of Waywatchers opposite the 'thirster. I had almost everything on my right, having exploited extra drops.

The downside of course was that my opponent had +1 to go first and he duly won the roll. He advanced full speed towards my centre and left but more cautiously on my right, with the Bloodthirster to my surprise flying towards the centre, still shootable by the Waywatchers. The cannon failed to reach it's target. I dropped an eagle to block off the Beasts and failed a Swift Reform with the Hagbane, turning to face the Nurglings but unable to shoot them. On the right the Waywatchers advanced to bring the Bloodthirster back into range. I had two charge options. The first was the bus on the DP, needing a 10 to get in, which I decided against as failure would leave me within reach of the 'thirster. The second was the Wild Riders on Horrors, needing a 9, which I went for and made. If I destroyed them I would overrun into the 'thirster, actually a great move as it would pin it in place for another round, though I hadn't thought this through when I charged! Amber Spear had done nothing for me thus far in the tournament but it came screaming back here, taking the DP clean off, a great start. Archery put a wound on the Greater Daemon. The Wild Riders did their thing, wiping out the Horrors and charging into the 'thirster.

The Nurglings now charged into the Hagbane but good dice saw them destroyed. My opponent was annoyed, citing this and the WR combat as "Point and Click" but TBH elves with ASF, Murderous Prowess and Poison were always going to win that fight. Not to mention that it was essentially irrelevant game-wide. The Beasts ate the Eagle and bore down on my wood as did the Furies. Horrors and Plaguebearers advanced. The Skillcannon charged the Riders, the Impact Hits alone removing them. I'd missed this but it worked out fine. With the loss of the DP and Horrors the Daemons had virtually no magic left to speak of.

In my turn the victorius Hagbane shot the Furies down to a single model, which subsequently hid. The second eagle flew down to block the Beasts. Other stuff held station. The only spell I got through was Flock of Doom on the 'thirster, one wound sneaking past the 2+ Ward (MR 3). The Waywatchers scored another wound, bringing it down to 2. Hagbane had failed first round but as so often, excelled this time, scoring 3 wounds which were not saved. 675 VP's. My opponent, cheesed off though he was, ploughed on with the Beasts killing the second eagle. Horrors and Plaguebearers advanced. The cannon I believe shot the Charmed Shield from my General. I briefly considered a charge on the PB's but there was no value in it. Magic and shooting removed the Skillcannon.

The Beasts finally made it into the Hagbane, wiping them out. I now did a quick evaluation and concluded that as my opponent was Broken, I could simply run my army into the corners for a big win. A couple of charges had to be fled and the subsequent rally tests passed (Gleaming Pennant not proving necessary). That achieved I passed on turn six and we were done.

20-0 (16-0 after capping)
SpellArcher
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#169 Post by SpellArcher »

To say that my opponent was unhappy with the dice in this game would be an understatement. I rolled very well. But he also put himself in a vulnerable position. My early Hagbane drop should never have drawn the Beasts out so far on the flank. Deployed on my right, the Bloodthirster should have been pushed in my face turn one. As it was even my friendly army was able to put 60 bowshots (20 Poisoned) on him in two turns, which was too much. Amber Spearing the DP was slightly fortunate but he is a dodgy pick in general and lacking a Dispel Scroll (I got 5 PD vs 4 DD) should arguably have been far away from my Beasts mage. In general I played carefully, made the right calls and disengaged at the right time.

Build

This game showed exactly why archers/fast cav is the premier set-up for Wood Elves. My opponent was unhappy with the power of 5 Wild Riders. I could have brought 30 under the comp. 34 bow shots pretty much won me the game. An uncomped WE list often approaches 100. It does make me wonder what I could achieve with a more mainstream list.

The bus has decent durability and killing power. The difference is that you can afford to throw Wild Riders into combat and not care too much if things go wrong. The Eternal Guard and Ancient are reliable but setting up favourable combats with M5 units is a lot harder than focusing fire. Of course the standard lists have to worry more about flight paths etc. but an opponent has to put the right pressure on, else he's simply shot to death.
SpellArcher
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#170 Post by SpellArcher »

Conclusion

So after capping (which I personally am not a fan of), I finished on 41/80 BP's. It was a decent tournament on the whole, challenging games and no bad opponents. Travelling to the venue each day was tiring but such is the tournament road! Each event I hope to make that breakthrough from middle of the pack to the upper reaches but it was good to finish this one on a high.

It's worth noting that my unadjusted scores for the last three 5-game events (Pompey Pillage, Ill Blood 2 and London's Burning) have been 47/100, 47/100, 45/100. It gets more spooky when you consider that at each one I've had a heavy loss, a light loss, two draws and a heavy win! That's some consistency.

I'm still mulling over the Unicorn/Treekin idea but ATM I'm leaning towards more minor adjustments. I like the broad spell repertoire I have and the Ancient, while sometimes vulnerable, is more flexible and surviving more games. I've used him in every full-sized WE game I've played since the mid 90's, so it would be a shame to drop him now!

Next tournament in June, Ill Blood 3 - Unbroken. Same deal as the February event, Uncomped, 2400pts. One last hurrah!

:)
Andros123
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#171 Post by Andros123 »

Thanks for the reports SA - very interesting.

About the enchanted arrows:
On paper there are many situations where hagbane are better, however when played, I'm always amazed of the trueflight arrows. wood elves are really popular in my area, so I play them a lot.
I think you underestimate the ability trueflight gives you to shoot from hard cover without penalties. I can't tell you how frustrating it is, when those glade riders(most frustrating unit in the game to play against) just find hard cover from other units, and still just hit on 3+. In return my archers and bolt throwers hit them on 6's. It is an amazing way of keeping your fragile t3 dudes alive, while at the same time putting out damage.
And as for monsters - you just need 6's after your 3+ from trueflight :). With the amount of arrows a normal wood elf list can pump out, and the fact that their is no hiding with trueflight, you can take down those big targets relatively quick. My frost heart usually doesn't last long :cry: .
My point is just that trueflight gives you some options, which are hard to quantify, before you actually play the game. Being able to focus ALL your fire at one target and hit it on 3+, while providing yourself with the necessary cover is just fantastic.
SpellArcher
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#172 Post by SpellArcher »

Thanks Andros.

I should say at the outset that if running a more typical archers/fast cav list I completely agree that Trueflight is better than Hagbane for Core archers. As you say, enough shots hitting on 3's will deal with most things and Waywatchers/spells and perhaps a few Hagbane Scouts deal with the rest. I've made a conscious decision though to go arrow-light, around 40 shots or so. I've used Trueflight and was impressed and I certainly felt the lack of it several times this tournament. I feel though that when resources are limited you have to prioritise. Against elves or Lizardmen say, Trueflight is mostly better (HE monsters excepted). But I can at least put up a fight, I lost the Lizardman game because I messed up my cavalry, having Trueflight would not have turned the game. In contrast, I have to take the Bloodthirster out ASAP or I am cooked. Hagbane on average puts twice as many wounds on such targets as Trueflight if you are at -1 to hit (moved or long range say, big flyers struggle to claim cover penalties). This also applies vs Dragons, Plague Drones, Destroyers, Phoenixes, Chimerae etc.. I have to stop these bad boys from flying around with impunity and drive-by flaming or running over my units. Lacking RBT, an alternative way to heavy board control is vital. Amber Spear was great against the DP but vs the 2++ of the Bloodthirster, not so much.
sparkytrypod
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#173 Post by sparkytrypod »

A good read as always SA!

Any games coming up before june... thats a long time before another write up! :D
death is lighter than a feather, duty heavier than a mountain

do an rpg personality test, im from Ireland and I get...

[CENTER][url=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/24.jpg[/img][/url][/CENTER
SpellArcher
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#174 Post by SpellArcher »

Thanks Sparky.

No, sadly not. I only get to play at tournaments and as a family man there's a limit to them. I have to say I'm really looking forward to the last one, I intend to go out with a bang!

:)
NonnoSte
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#175 Post by NonnoSte »

Interesting read SA, and awesome games.
As you already know, I love your approach to Asrai and your army (along Thomas') is the most "balanced" way to build a WE list, which is both enjoyable to play with and effective.

If I had to comment on something, I'd disagree about your Lizardmen game.
You said you lost because of cavalry inefficiency and the hagbane/trueflight issue gas nothing to do.with it, but I'm of a different opinion.
With Trueflight you could have cleared some board from skinks clouds, thus gaining much more freedom for your Wild Riders and combat blocks.
Recently I'm playing an Host of the Phoenix King list in which I decided not to include Asrai archers (just some WW) and I'm finding a lot of troubles in.dealing with chaff before it can mess with my main units. Magic Missiles seem to be never enough to clear all the support.
I think the best balance lies in 15/18 shots of both kinds.
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#176 Post by SpellArcher »

Hello mate, always good to get cross-forum input!

:)

I wouldn't say lack of Trueflight made no difference, just not as much of a difference as completely missing the Oldblood was even there! There's no question that it would strengthen me against Lizardmen, elves (funny I haven't played any elves for ages!) etc.. But would I have shot the Bloodthirster off? Maybe not. Would I have shot it off if the guy had been more aggressive? Now it's getting dicey.
NonnoSte
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#177 Post by NonnoSte »

Of course, you're right. But I'm not a fan of mono thematic arrows. I think a mix is ideal, being more flexible.
I found having 15/18 of hagbane and as many trueflight is the right balance for me.
Last time I faced multiple greater daemon 18 trueflight took down a Daemon Prince in 2 turns of shooting and an ASF combat phase. (yeah, I was in the venom thicket).
But even if they don't kill the big menace, but wound it badly, the opponent won't be at ease in committing. (sorry for bad English, I'm not sure what the correct form is)
SpellArcher
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#178 Post by SpellArcher »

The English is fine.

Maybe the list just needs more shooting. Of course that means dropping something, which is never straightforward!
NonnoSte
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#179 Post by NonnoSte »

How do you feel about Waywatchers? I know they're powerful, but you already have the bus able to deal with armour to some extent and the things out of reach are hardly scared by just 12 WW.

You could drop the 5 strong unit and one Eagle to add 9 HBT Scouts, while converting to TFA one of the core units. (you also get back the points for the Pof on the Lord)
It's a significant change and you lose a deployment drop too, but I'm finding Waywatchers more and more pricey for what they usually achieve. Let's be honest, how often they're not your opponent priority?
They tend to die very quickly in most of my games. Sure it buys me time, but Scouts are equally efficient in that regards.
I personally think Waywatchers are worth taking or in big numbers (let's say 20ish) or a single min-sized unit (5-7) as a bait which usually doesn't get ignored.
SpellArcher
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Re: Baptism of Fire

#180 Post by SpellArcher »

Waywatchers

Interesting question NonnoSte. I took seven to Ill Blood and had a couple of games (vs WoC and Bretonnia) where I felt a lack, so I drafted the other five in. I feel that twelve is enough to have a good go at a knight or Skullcrusher unit, whereas seven isn't, so much. I then of course face no armies with armour at London's Burning. Even so, I was quite content with how they performed. The multi-shot was fairly effective and I really enjoyed the option to deploy that shooting after my opponent's normal deployment, to best effect.

I feel I might get away with ten but I'm suspicious of less because of the need to impact armour at range in some match-ups (which my magic doesn't especially help with). I have to say, I haven't found them targeted especially but that might change if I bring the twelve vs an armoured list maybe. I think our differing opinion about the numbers may be simply down to the difference in how our lists work (or possibly the fact that I don't seem to fight a lot of elves). What I am considering is dropping the EG, which would leave plenty of room in Core to vary the shooting.
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