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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:28 pm 
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Green Istari

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Bugger!

I confidently expect to check the HE FAQ tomorrow and find they've made Fury S10. The've messed with everything else!

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:39 pm 
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Great game, not much to comment on really! You were lucky with the early game misses from comet/trebuchet's, but hey it's all part of the game and those are both high-variance!

Do you have any context information about the tournament? E.g. what armies are popular, skill level of the players participating etc? Are you intending to make any special preparations besides playing games?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:56 am 
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Hey master D I'd apprieciate it if you could have a look at my latest bat rep against the dark elves to analyse my magic usage. Your input last time was extremely helpful. :D

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:49 pm 
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@ Curu - Comet is a wierd spell. The actual effect is very random - 4+ to even go off, random range, random hits. I believe the true effect is the psychological effect is has on opponents - it lets you effectively control their movement phases by creating "do not fly" zones. I'm a bit reckless when it comes to this spell - I often decide to completely rob an opponent of the movement advantage and take my chances with the effects. In many cases, the positioning advantage of working within its threat radius (I always leave a bit of room to reduce the risk) is often worth the risk. Typically comets are placed in a spot where the enemy doesn't want you to go. If you then go there anyway, it can really mess with their plans.

Tournament context - It's one of the bigger ones in North America. Two day event, first day is a 2v2 tournament with 4 games, second day is a singles 2200 tournament with 4 games. Usually draws 50+ players, with the top player getting a spot at the North America Grand Tournament in Memphis. It's totally uncomped, so I expect to see the filthiest dirt imaginable. Last year there were double hellpit + oldschool power scroll 13th spell skaven galore. Some of the top competitors in our region are going to be playing, including the tournament organizer this year, who has won many tournaments in the past.

Special preparations - study the books I don't know as well, print off your mathammer sheets and watch lots of bad reruns to mentally prepare myself for a weekend of abuse lol.

@ Caradryal - I'd be happy to! I'll take a peek at it a bit later today.

Thanks again for the comments guys!

D

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:36 pm 
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Hey Guys!

Sorry about the relative inactivity these past couple weeks - trying feverishly to get all my painting done before the tournament next weekend.

I can at least share with you some of the fruits of my labour:

The White Lions are 100% complete, and I'm pretty happy with how they turned out

Image
Image

So much detail on those models, it's incredible. Glad they're done though.

I've also got my spearmen completed, and I'm just finishing flocking some of the bases. I'll put some pics up of them tonight as well.

I've also submitted my list for the 2200 point singles tournament. I had to make some tough, tough choices, as there really isn't enough room to fit everything I want to fit in at this level.

Archmage, Level 4, Forliath's Robes, Ring of Corin, Guardian Phoenix
Mage, Level 2, Seerstaff (Pha's & Banishment)
Mage, Level 1, Anullian Crystal

30 x Spearmen, Full Command
10 x Archers, Musician, Standard, Banner of Discipline
10 x Archers, Musician

17 x White Lions, Full Command, Banner of Sorcery, Dragonhorn
12 x Swordmasters, Standard, Gleaming Pennant, Musician
12 x Swordmasters, Standard, Standard of Balance
5 x Ellyrian Reavers, Musician

2 x Great Eagles

Try as I might, I just couldn't find the points to trade those reavers in for dragon princes without giving up something that I felt was mission critical to my list. I need Forliath's Robes, I need the banner of sorcery and the annullian crystal. They simply counter too many things that would otherwise be a nightmare for me.

The alternative here is using the 90 someodd points for another small unit of elites, but I feel that I really need the mobile element. With this current list, between the eagles, lore of light and the reavers, I should be able to shut down most gunlines pretty quickly, as well as create situations where I can get flank charges on things like ironblasters for some easy points.

Nothing is finalized, of course, until the day of the tournament when you submit the official lists, so as always, I'm open for input. I've stared at this list so much at this point that I'm confident I must have missed something lol.

Thanks in advance!

D

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:26 pm 
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Great job Brewmaster! I'm not a fan of the Lion models but I really like yours.

Reavers might be a good fit. They're cheap enough to sacrifice and Feigned Flight and Vanguard can be very handy.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:39 pm 
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Not sure how to make that list better, do those Reavers have Spears or Bows, or both?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:21 pm 
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Hey Guys!

@SpellArcher - This really is my hope - Especially when combined with the Dragonhorn, giving them a reroll to rally no matter where they are on the board during a key turn. Thanks for the compliment on the lions!

@Tiralya - Keeping them cheap, and to the point - basic load with spears only and a musician. Again, I just don't have the points to spare for anything fancy.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:33 pm 
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I think if you're going to plan on using the Reavers as another speed bump, then having them cheaper than DPs is key. Curu has been having awesome luck without them in his Dragon list and I can't see it hurting yours any either. I don't think you've sacrificed anything that makes your 2500pt list so deadly in the cut down to 2200.

* You're still plenty mobile (with light spells, eagles and reaverts)
* Your magic phase is still deadly with a full coven
* You still have your hardest hitting elements in the form of SMs and WLs

I really like the paint job on the WLs btw.

KO

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:00 pm 
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Looks solid mate. I also cant see a way to squeeze those princes in without compromising your list, will be interesting to see how it fares.

The Lions look wicked by the way :)

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:58 pm 
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Slightly off topic from your 2200 list, I wanted to get your thoughts on a 50 spear hoard with the light coven. At a 3000 point game, you needs much core anyway. And if you get off time warp, I would think that 100 ASF rerollable attacks should do serious damage, even if only at strength 3. Especially if combined with speed of light.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:14 pm 
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Hey Big Brother,

No problem at all! I could definitely use a break from preparing for this tournament anyway.

One thing to remember with your idea is that multiple attacks will only count for the first rank. So with the example of your spear horde, you're looking at 60 attacks when timewarped as opposed to 100, since supporting ranks only ever provide 1 attack.

At the end of the day, a high elf spearmen is one of the most expensive ways in the game to achieve a S3 attack. The concept of the lore of light is that it amplifies damage that already exists, and S3 just doesn't produce the kind of threat that you need. Most opponents would just let you get the timewarp off and dismiss it as a non-threatening spell, whereas a timewarp on White Lions is going to spell certain doom for one of their units.

I really feel that if you want to make a huge block of spears work, you need a lore that can augment the quality of their attacks, not the quantity. Mindrazor, Withering, Wildform, Flaming Sword and Enchanted Blades all come to mind, but none of which are in the Lore of Light.

Hope this helps!

Back to painting -.-

D

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:12 am 
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Of course, wasn't thinking that the back ranks attacks would still be stuck at one. Clearly not really worth it. I was just trying to find a way to make my required core useful, without resorting to Shadow mind razor.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:58 pm 
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BrewmasterD,

Thanks for your thoughts on that. Have you had chance to play test your list ready for your tournament? I am looking forward to the reports.

Flaxis


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:04 pm 
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Those WLs look excellent. I particularly like the bases. They just look great, can't really describe it. The orange compliments the green well though.

:)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:07 pm 
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Hey Guys!

I have had a chance to playtest a couple times, but unfortunately my packed preparation schedule resulted in no battle reports. I know, I know, shame on me :P

I've played 3 at 2200 points, first the match vs. Skaven, which I did manage to report here. The other two were versus Empire and the new Vampire Counts.

Here's the gist of how they went:

vs. Empire

His list was nasty, comprised of a horde of halbreds, 30 flagellants, a steamtank, an Arch Lector on a War Altar and 2x Cannons and Mortars. My list did what it does well and managed to get up pha's to mitigate his shooting phase. The Reavers really showed me their worth in this game, with their vanguard move allowing them turn 2 access to his artillery. My plan was to put the Forliath's Robes Archmage into the steamtank, but that didn't quite work out the way I planned; that thing can motor! He ended up getting a unit of swordmasters tied down, but they were suprisingly effective at sticking around. The wound or two they'd do a turn on it resulted in an incapacitated steamtank and a relative stalemate.

My shooting and coven put the hurt on his flagellants, and in the end I managed to pair them up against my spears. This was an excellent matchup, and I cleaned up that unit.

Once I had his artillery and flagellants, and the steamtank incapacitated, it was pretty late in the game and my numbers were getting low, so I tied up his horde of halbreds with a newly reformed conga line of White Lions - all's fair when you're fielding a pretty much unbreakable army :P

Win for the Coven by a pretty decent margin

vs. Vampire Counts

New army list, so the player was still trying to settle in and figure out what works. This list had a big unit of skeletons with two wraiths, 3 necromancers (one a master with the black periapt) , two terrorgheists and two units of 6 varghulfs.

Really threw me aback seeing the undead move this fast, and forced me on the defensive early. However, having read some great battle reports on here featuring the Varghulfs, I managed to force some ugly charges on them - trust me when I say that they do not like swordmasters, particularly ones that eliminate their frenzy! One Terrorgheist met a grisly end at the hands of banishment (I was pretty much foaming at the mouth to try that out!) and the other got locked in combat with pha's protected spears, who are also suprisingly effective at dealing with these things through their high volume of attacks, and their combat resolution.

In the end, his list suffered from a bit of a lack of unity - he had slow moving zombie tarpits and the skeleton unit, and his fast moving elements. I was able to isolate the fast movers before the infantry blocks got to me, and the match ended with me getting a unit of swordmasters in the flank of the skeleton unit, neutralizing the wraith shield at the front with my spears.

Sorry again for not doing reports, but literally every spare minute has been spent painting in order to get ready.

Thanks for the encouragement on the painting! Believe me, at this point I'll take what I can get lol.

Tournament is on Sunday, so expect lots of reports next week.

D

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:13 pm 
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Nice lions, Brewmaster! The texture of those cloaks really pops nicely.

As for the list, I really, really wish I could find the gem of courage in it.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:09 pm 
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You and I both, Bolt Thrower! I suppose I do have the option of dropping the two musicians to put it on one of the mages, but this has other ramifications in terms of the Reaver's effectiveness with feigned flight. Reason # 1 billion that I'm sad they decided to make the tournament 2200 and not 2500 points.

In the meantime, things are coming along in terms of painting. Couple more pictures for you guys:

Spearmen


Image



Swordmasters

Image

I suppose I probably shouldn't have left this until the last minute lol. Regardless, the reavers are over 50% done, leaving me with 12 swordmasters left to paint, and a totally cleared schedule for the week, with the exception of work.

D

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:49 pm 
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Supreme General Brewmaster_D,

Thanks for the quick fire reports, I am glad to see that you have done some testing, the painting is coming along great. Once your done with that you will be fielding a fully painted 2500pts also?

Wishing you all the best for the tournament.

Commander Flaxis


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:41 am 
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Hi Brewmaster!

Thanks for the short reports. They are very informative which is great. I really like what you have just pointed out in terms of some match-ups. Swordmasters vs. Steamtank (was it lucky or would you do it again on fairly regular basis?), Spears vs. Terrogeist (how crucial was Pha's Protection in that fight?) etc. It gives some good ideas on how to deal with new threats.

I like your painting, very autumn-like. I have one question about shields, however. Would you consider adding a red rim to them? As they are white they look a little flat at the moment so adding a rim would help to create a little depth. Not now, of course, but at some stage after the tournament :)

I am really looking forward to the reports from your tournament. I expect a lot of very interesting moments to be witnessed and I am also eager to join inevitable discussion.

Good Luck! :)

P.S. I promised you some overview about High Magic vs. Light Magic and just wanted to let you know I didn't forget about it and I am working on it but it will take some time to go through the games and to pick up some good examples for that. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:58 am 
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I was thinking along the lines of downgrading the guardian phoenix to the talisman of protection instead to make room for the gem. With the AM wearing the robes, I wonder how strong of a ward is needed....it's a tough one, but the list does look solid!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:03 pm 
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Hey Guys!

@ Swordmaster - no worries! I know all too well how long well thought out analysis takes, so don't worry about it. Truth be told I haven't had much time to respond these last couple weeks anyway because of all this painting, so I'm kind of glad I'm not missing the discussion.

To answer your questions:

Would I pair Swordmasters vs. the Steamtank again? No, I don't think so. Although they did manage to disable it, any unit that engages that thing is almost guaranteed to be stuck there all game, with nothing to show for it at the end. I need those swordmasters to be earning points for me, not smashing away at a metal brick :P

Pha's Protection helped quite a bit - first and foremost, it saved them from one scream, which is huge. Then obviously the -1 to hit always helps; every wound this thing didn't do to me in that fight was a wound that he took due to combat resolution, so Pha's almost becomes an offensive tool here too, interestingly enough.

Would I detail the shields more? Heck yes I would :P. I'm a victim of two things here: Procrastination and "Painting core syndrome". I left too much painting till the last minute, per my usual behaviour, and the quality of my painting is directly linked with the quality of the models. Let's face it, the spear models are uuuuuugly!

@ Bolt Thrower - For 25 points, the Guardian Phoenix is like insurance to me. 5+ ward is enough to rely on it saving one of those 3 wounds he has, and it lets me rest a little easier versus things like miscasts, snipe spells and feedback scrolls. But you're right, we're at a low enough point level that I almost can't afford that insurance, and I have to give up another form to get it - the Gleaming Pennant.

I suppose the other alternative is to swap out the standard of balance for the lion standard and pick up the Gem on one of the mages. However, that standard is such a hard counter to many of the power builds out there that I'd really lament the loss of it as well.

Maybe I can talk them in to running the tournament at 2215 points? Oh wait, then I'd have to rework my core.

You see what you do to me when you ask good questions like that Bolt Thrower? :P

D

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:04 pm 
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Been reading through your blog for a while now and i really like your style of play and recently decided to give it a go myself. BUT at the start of my game (in local GW store) they said i couldn't double up Banishment with Seerstaff as you purchase the ability to 'choose' spells not purchasing the spells themselves. They said if the seestaff said it gives the bearer spells 1+4 of any lore then that will double up but not as its currently worded. I played it without doubled as it made sense. So i ask how do you double spells with seestaff? If its in the FAQ i haven't seen it.

I absolutely LOVE the paint job! I am going for an Averlorn theme and never did it cross my mind to do Green Armour...WOW! =P~ Out of my skills to replicate but will certainly try thanks for the inspiration!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:10 pm 
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Hey The Silly Dragon,

I've had this debate many times, so I'm well versed in rebuttals at this point :P

On page 124 it states that if you have a wizard that can choose specific spells, it has to be written in to your roster at the time you pick your army

On page 490 it states that if a model has no choice over what spells it knows, of if it's because the spells have been bought as part of army selection, then the spells can be duplicated. The no choice section of the sentence is in reference to having no choice at the time of rolling - I have no choice, because the spells are already written in. I *have* to take Banishment and Pha's. It's in my roster.

When you look at these two rules in tandem, it's very clear that in puchasing the Seerstaff, you are in fact purchasing two spells that must be written into your list. Hence being able to double up.

I then give them the option of either that, or interpreting the rules for the seerstaff as letting me pick my spells at the start of the game, since I'm not buying the spells allowing me to disregard the rule on page 124 - they usually consider the ramifications of this, and opt for my original interpretation :P

Edit: also, people are generally relieved to not have to play Teclis or the book too, so when they consider that they *could* be playing against that, they usually soften up.

D

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:20 pm 
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I was explaining the reference to page 490 to them but i didn't know about page 124. If only i knew this at the time!

Anyways i don't really trust them as it was 1000pts each doubles game (i know coven at 1000pts? crazy!) one opponent was playing Vampire Counts and first he tried to only have 2 units (min 3!) and the staff didn't point that out, nor did they see his Black Coach...which from memory is 300pts so over the 25% for rare.

I think they just don't like High Elves there.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:50 pm 
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The Silly Dragon wrote:
nor did they see his Black Coach...which from memory is 300pts so over the 25% for rare.

nope its legal at 1k, comes in at just under 98 skaven slaves ;)

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:36 am 
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Black Coach should cost 300 points, so your complaint is still valid. What kind of jerk brings a Black Coach in 1,000?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:25 pm 
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Nicene wrote:
Black Coach should cost 300 points, so your complaint is still valid. What kind of jerk brings a Black Coach in 1,000?


The kind of players i have to play against...

Seriously its not 300pts? How much are they 20pts? Wouldn't surprise me. :roll:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:13 pm 
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The Silly Dragon wrote:
Seriously its not 300pts? How much are they 20pts? Wouldn't surprise me. :roll:

Caradryal wrote:
nope its legal at 1k, comes in at just under 98 skaven slaves ;)

Thats 5 pts less than 2 Rbt's :shock:

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:37 pm 
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Hey Guys!

So the tournament is done, and my performance was a bit lackluster. I ended up 24th out of 50 ish, with a record of Draw, Draw, Loss, Win. I should have the reports up soon.

My two draws were versus the two winners of the doubles tournament the day before, one of which being the overall winner of the tournament, so I'm quite proud of those actually. My loss was... interesting to say the least. It was versus an opponent who did not understand the basic movement rules, and would move his units quickly, then put them back in a more favourable position when I contested it.

Some overall thoughts on the tournament:

- 2200 is tough - it's a low enough point level that outlying rolls can produce situations that are near impossible to recover from
- We had 2 hours per game, which cost me overall. I'm usually very methodical, particularly during the movement and deployment phase, for example, so I had to rush myself to fit within the time limit (Taking photos and notes didn't help my cause either :P)
- The Ring of Corin and the Robes Archmage was a solid choice. Saved my butt in a couple situations.
- There were a lot of Ogres. A LOT.
- Luck of the draw with opponents plays a big factor; I landed two very tough competitors round #1 & #2 (and was happy for it - these games were awesome!), and an awful opponent round 3.

I should have the reports up this week, though tonight is a bit of a wash. Interestingly enough, the runner up in the tournament was a fellow High Elf player, and introduced himself to me and mentioned that he reads this thread. He was fielding a list similar to mine in many respects - not sure if he has an account on here, but I'd love to hear some details about his list and/or battles too! It's really nice to see a High Elf player place so highly.

Interestingly enough, Bretonnians took the top spot!

D

_________________
There is nothing do fear but fear itself... well, that and Toughness tests.

Check out my Army Blog for tactics, battle reports and general ramblings: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Army List Blog
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