Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - 05/12 Battle Report

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Curu Olannon
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/10

#331 Post by Curu Olannon »

Haha I couldn't help but think of FPS Doug when I saw this T1 - taking off the 'Thirster like that was just such a BOOM HEADSHOT (LINK) feeling :D I love the nuclear mushroom as well, I reckognized it immediately for what it was ;)

Overall - impressive to win against such a list! There's not a lot to comment on with regards to your decisions, but I will agree that your opponent made a few mistakes. With that being said, the list is very one-dimensional and given the fact that you managed to take out the Bloodthirster AND neutralize his Banner early on really sealed the deal. It's really interesting to see how much copy-pasting people do: they find a strong list online and rely on the sheer strength of the book/list itself to win. When they meet a competent list in the hands of a strong player, they get utterly destroyed.

As such, you had to play well to win, which you did! Congrats on the victory - looking forward to the next game :)

PS - I'd be interested to see how this list with a scroll, in the hands of a better player would've turned out against you. In this case, it would've been essential to minimize dice - get the dd out, get the scroll out, take out that banner -> win the game (hopefully). Small differences from a point-by-point point of view but big changes to the game.

EDIT - how common is the banner of sundering? I'm strongly considering giving the Coven of Light a go myself (I initially created an all-saphery army themed around this before I even started my cavalry prince list - http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=35162) at some point, but a fair share of my games is likely to be in an open-lists environment. How do you think this would affect this approach D?
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/10

#332 Post by Jimmy »

Thanks for the report Brewmaster, I really love seeing your army in action, doubly so against Daemons and seeing them cook!

Having his Bloodthirster pop first turn is just priceless and thanks for photoshopping the mushroom cloud! Great effort! :)

That's a shame about the player, certainly sounds like he uses every loop hole to his advantage to get the most out of his army which will always take something away from the game.

The magic setup was great in the fact of your turn 3 taking a average roll and then adding double the dice to your pool.

Great to see someone use the Dragonhorn.
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/10

#333 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi Brewmaster!

I have just found out that in DoC errata v1.4 there is a line saying that Daemonic Icons are Magic Standards and as such are apparently treated as magic items - hence can be destroyed by Vaul's Unmaking.

Cheers!
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/10

#334 Post by Brewmaster_D »

Hey Guys!
Seredain wrote:Brutal, just brutal magic phase, D.
Thank you kindly! It's been in a state of refinement for quite a while, and I'm happy that I'm becoming comfortable with both its use and its reliability. With this particular loadout, I think I've hit a good combination of bonus power dice without hitting what I like to call "The Teclis Imperative" - You have tons of power dice, but to be guaranteed his effect of irresistable force, you need to throw a lot of power dice. In the end, you trade off quantity of spells for the ability to force them through. With my phase, however, the key spells are duplicated and cheap to cast, so once you hammer out their magic defense (usually first turn with S7 banishment in the mix), you're looking at 4 or 5 spells a phase.
Seredain wrote:Of course your list is brittle in other ways, in deployment (if you're looking for spell bubbles), against shooting (if you're not) and (notably) leadership, but your item choices wonderfully counter this weakness.
Welcome to life playing High Elves, eh? Everything is a tradeoff, so you're spot on with the weaknesses. I have tools in place for first panic tests, but armies that can force them regularly will make me struggle. I'm thinking a leadership bomb army would be a tough matchup - of course there's always Light of Battle in a pinch ;)
Seredain wrote:On the Robe, I'd say you've gotta keep it. Once you start losing your mages (especially the banishment casters), your evil magical synergy will start to fall apart- this is bad when you've invested so many points in it. Keeping the archmage alive is therefore pretty crucial. You don't get to use it against daemons, of course, but I don't really mind this myself since, against daemons, our core troops perform really well and so redress the balance nicely.
I think you're right, there's just too many advantages associated with this one 45 point item. Not only is the Archmage usually loaded up with the most important spells, but this item also turns him into a great tool for dealing with steamtanks. Although later in the game, the importance of banishment diminishes (the prime targets are dead from banishments already :P), the necessity of a strong magic phase is still there. I think I'll stick with the Robes & 5+ Ward as my go-to build here.
Curu Olannon wrote:Haha I couldn't help but think of FPS Doug
"I think I make my Dad kind of nervous, because every time I get a gun in my hands, it invariably points at someone's head" - Classic! lol.
Curu Olannon wrote:I'd be interested to see how this list with a scroll, in the hands of a better player would've turned out against you. In this case, it would've been essential to minimize dice - get the dd out, get the scroll out, take out that banner -> win the game (hopefully). Small differences from a point-by-point point of view but big changes to the game.
I think this comes down to a couple things - quantity over quality, ie. emphasize the base level spells that can be cast on 2 or 3 dice until the scroll comes out. At that point, look for a phase where either a) he has 4 or less dispel dice and you have 6, then ring it, like what happened here or b) Force out his dispel dice with low value spells, then use the ring if he spends his dispel dice.

In an open list situation... Just spray and pray I guess. 6 Dice, first turn, hope for irresistable. Otherwise he'll just save a scroll for the ring.
Curu Olannon wrote:how common is the banner of sundering?
Well, I'm in an uncomped environment too, and so far it's been in 100% of my daemon games lol. I think this will come down to your meta, and how popular light is. If it starts become predominant, you can be sure the Daemon players will react by fielding this thing. It's still a pretty good value even without the effect on the lore of light. Definitely a thorn in my side!

@Jimmy - Thanks for the kind words! I think it's really interesting running a list without a BSB. I used to just auto-include him, without giving much thought about whether I *had* to. Items like the Dragonhorn open up a window for some interesting styles of lists without one, and the points that can be saved by not fielding one are substantial.

@ Swordmaster - Awesome. Thanks so much for looking this up. It's nice to be able to tell a player it's in their errata if they get uppity.

Thanks again for the wonderful discussion guys!

D
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/10

#335 Post by SpellArcher »

I guess one nasty thing about this Daemon build is that it can pack 2 Spellbreakers without compromising anything much. Though the Coven's relentless phase should draw them out reasonably early I'd have thought.
Brewmaster_D wrote:@Jimmy - Thanks for the kind words! I think it's really interesting running a list without a BSB. I used to just auto-include him, without giving much thought about whether I *had* to. Items like the Dragonhorn open up a window for some interesting styles of lists without one, and the points that can be saved by not fielding one are substantial.
To me this is the kind of difference between a decent list and one that's sharp as a knife. You make seemingly risky compromises to squeeze the absolute max out of things elsewhere, because you know if you play well you can cover it.
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/10

#336 Post by Ptolemy »

Nuked Thirster = +100 Life points.
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/10

#337 Post by Big Brother »

I ran my first light based list today, only at 1750 points, so was really only able to take an Archmage and mage. What I noticed was it was taking a lot of effort to try to keep my two mages within 12 inches of each other.

Do you have any comments/advice regarding positioning, units to use as bunkers, etc. that might make this easier?
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/10

#338 Post by Brewmaster_D »

Hey Big Brother,

A couple pointers regarding positioning:

Archers

Because archers tend to perform a similar role as the coven, I find that the mages can be successfully bunkered within them. As shooting units, they also tend to be fielded in smaller units, and don't need to be in combat in order to fulfill their roles. This just furthers their case for being effective bunkers.

Having said that, a good deal of foresight is required - what is traditionally looked upon as a dummy drop for us now has the potential to reveal much more to a canny opponent. I find that I tend to use my eagles, dragon princes or even my spears to draw out the opponents intentions before committing the archers, and through inference the coven.

Late vs early game

Second point to consider is what your army actually needs in any given turn. As the game progresses, and more and more targets become engaged, you'll find that emphasis shifts more to the combat buffs. This also holds true as you begin to eliminate the good banishment targets. In this case, the positioning limitation changes as well. Your concern now changes from being within twelve inches of your mages to being the same distance from your key combats.

To keep my options open, I generally try to keep my bunkers moving while shooting if I need to advance on the opponent. During the critical combat turns, you then have the option of making a full march move to get those critical buffs.

So long story short, it's very important to determine on any given turn and in approaching turns whether you *need* the high strength banishment, or whether you'd be better off simply taking advantage of positioning opportunities for combat buffs, etc.

Hope this helps!

D

Ps. Sorry I've been absent the last week or so guys - I've been out of the country. I've got a game lined up for Thursday when I get back, though, so expect a report shortly thereafter. Thanks again for all your input and comments guys!

At the end of the day, it requires a good degree of situational awareness; each turn ask yourself what you need this turn, as well as what you'll need next turn.
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Flaxis
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/10

#339 Post by Flaxis »

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:Hi Brewmaster!

I have just found out that in DoC errata v1.4 there is a line saying that Daemonic Icons are Magic Standards and as such are apparently treated as magic items - hence can be destroyed by Vaul's Unmaking.

Cheers!
Brewmaster,

Also as they are magical items you can only have one of each Magic Standard - you cannot take 2 icon's of endless war, but I am sure you knew that. I am going to check that.... Sorry to bring up a now old part of the thread.

Thank you for all the insight to this style of play.

I assume that light is the only lore that really works as a coven? I suppose fire might? What are people thoughts? I am sorry if this has been asked before.

Flaxis
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/10

#340 Post by Brewmaster_D »

Flaxis wrote:I assume that light is the only lore that really works as a coven? I suppose fire might? What are people thoughts? I am sorry if this has been asked before.
Hey Flaxis!

Part of the reason light works well as a coven is the ability to stack the spells for added effects in addition to the enhanced effect on banishment. I'd say that other "covens" could work, but they wouldn't have the same overall effect that a light coven does. For example any spell that has a + stat would stack with itself, so there are many lores that could benefit from doubling up on spells. Ultimately, though, it's the strength enhancing effect on banishment that really makes the idea viable, though.

Tournament Preparation

So I've got our league night tonight and will be facing a random opponent at 2500 points once again. However, my thoughts have been focused on the 2200 point format with this tournament fast approaching. Once again, I'm caught between two ideas:

Robes Archmage with the Ring of Corin + Seerstaff Mage + Crystal Mage

or

Book of Hoeth Archmage + Crystal Mage + Ring Mage

On one hand, you have a "light" version of my current setup, minus the Jewel of the Dusk and 1 Strength to the banishment. On the other, you drop the potential for two banishments, but you pick up the ability to power your way through most magic defenses. Obviously the book would also leave my archmage open to assault as well.

Incidentally, the Book version of the coven comes out to be a bit cheaper, since you forego the need to upgrade your level 2, and downgrade in terms of points from the staff to the ring.

I'm quite confident I could make either work, but being myself I'm obsessing about which would be better - anyone feel like weighing in?

D
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/10

#341 Post by dabber »

Brewmaster_D wrote:I'm quite confident I could make either work, but being myself I'm obsessing about which would be better - anyone feel like weighing in?
How often in a game do you attempt either double banishment or double Pha's (or both!)? To me, doubling up is critical to making the concept special and effective, and I think you are used to playing with that option. Just from that difference in experience, I think the Hoeth Archmage would be weaker for you.
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/10

#342 Post by Brewmaster_D »

dabber wrote:How often in a game do you attempt either double banishment or double Pha's (or both!)?
This is a doozie of a point - I'd say well over 50% of my turns I try (and often succeed) at getting both off. Experience with the style is also a great point.

I'm hoping to get some test matches in at the 2200 point level over the next couple weeks - undoubtedly this will bolster my confidence with the 2200 format list. That or crush it completely. Jury's still out haha!

Thanks for the input dabber!

D
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/10

#343 Post by Baeronvonbleat »

For me, the problem with the Book of Hoeth is the moral factor. Too many opponents would just dismiss the magic effectiveness to "Oh, you won because you took the book."

I don't like to give my enemies the satisfaction of blaming a loss on a single item/character.

*edit* Overall play itself, the Book of Hoeth does help in the consistency of getting the spells off, but it also opens you to the dangers of sniping and those fluky magic phases where you miss a casting cost.

Unless your facing unprecedentedly strong magic defenses (Dwarves, Empire, etc) constistently, the Book is a strong liability in a list that takes more than one mage.
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/10

#344 Post by ~Milliardo~ »

I say don't use the book as well - you're making use of multiple spells with low casting values to put your opponents into double or even triple jeopardy. All of your spells are worth casting, so all of them should be dispelled, but of course most enemies can't do that. With the book, you're going to get one or two spells off a turn, guaranteed, but I think your total damage/buffing output is actually less most of the time than with your regular build.

Plus, you have less 'pissing people off' factor too, of course.
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/10

#345 Post by Curu Olannon »

With the Coven of Light I believe that the Book is nothing short of a drawback. Its strengths go directly against the whole principle behind the Coven: multiple spells, at low casting values, using trickle strategies to get things through and having a low chance of miscasting while maximising the bonus of a level 4 wizard. Do note that when going for the Book, the opposite of all of these properties hold true: you cast very few spells, preferably at high values, using brute force and accepting a medium-big chance of miscast and the casting bonus is often unimportant.

Ironically enough, I agree that most people would probably whine more if playing against this list with a Book build. Truth be told, this has more to do with people basing their opinions on stigma and internet knowledge rather than thorough analysis.

With that being said, this is of course just my opinion. It could be that the Book is stronger, even here, but I seriously doubt it.
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/10

#346 Post by Furion »

Brewmaster_D wrote:So I've got our league night tonight and will be facing a random opponent at 2500 points once again. However, my thoughts have been focused on the 2200 point format with this tournament fast approaching. Once again, I'm caught between two ideas:
Robes Archmage with the Ring of Corin + Seerstaff Mage + Crystal Mage
or
Book of Hoeth Archmage + Crystal Mage + Ring Mage
My questions Why don't you run talisman of saphery + robes + ring of corin?
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/10

#347 Post by Brewmaster_D »

Hey everyone!

Thanks for the input on this one. I was definitely leaning towards taking the version of my list that I'm more comfortable with, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't just holding on to the idea because of my own bias.

@ Furion - I'm not a huge fan of the FRobes/TSaph combo. I find that I'm much better off with the FRobes and a ward. Reasoning behind this is that the marginal benefit from rendering magical weapons mundane is really outweighed in my mind by the vulnerability you then have to things like miscast wounds, sniping spells and feedback scrolls. As such, my standard build is FRobes/Guardian Phoenix/Ring of Corin.

In all my time running the invincible archmage, I've found that with a bit of foreplanning you can avoid any nasty character w/ magic weapons, and/or deal with the ultra mobile ones using Banishment.

Make sense to you? Or would you prefer the Talisman?


In other news, I got my game in last night - it was against my first Bretonnian opponent (there's a shortage of Brets and Daemons at my store apparently). Battle report should be up tonight, so keep an eye out!

D
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/10

#348 Post by Brewmaster_D »

Without further adieu, my game from last night:

'Tis but a scratch!

Brettonians


(Please forgive me here on list inaccuracies, I'm not familiar at all with the Bretonian list

Fey Enchantress
Damsel, Level 2, mounted, dispel scroll (Lore of Life)
Damsel, Level 2, Chalice of Malfleur (Lore of Beasts)

Paladin, BSB, Barded Steed, Virtue of Duty, Banner of the Lady
Paladin, Barded Steed, Defensive build, Questing Vow, Great Weapon

20 x Peasant Bowmen

11 x Knights Errant, Full Command
15 x Knights of the Realm, Full Command, War Banner

12 x Grail Knights, Full Command

Trebuchet

Choo Choo!

High Elves

Archmage, Level 4, Forliath's Robes, Guardian Phoenix, Jewel of the Dusk
Mage, Level 2, Seerstaff (Pha's, Banishment)
Mage, Ring of Corin, Gem of Courage
Mage, Anullian Crystal

35 x Spearmen, Full Command
14 x Archers, Musician
11 x Archers, Musician

14 x Swordmasters, Standard, Standard of Balance
14 x Swordmasters, Standard, Gleaming Pennant
17 x White Lions, Full Command, Banner of Sorcery, Dragonhorn
5 x Dragon Princes

2 x Great Eagles

Spells

Fey Enchantress: Throne, Dwellers, Shield of Thorns, Regrowth
Damsel: Earthblood, Awakening the Wood
Damsel on Foot: Wildform, Flock of Doom

Archmage: Pha's, Light of Battle, Banishment, Timewarp
Ring Mage: Speed of Light
Crystal Mage: Net of Amyntok

Deployment

I rub my hands together in anticipation; another army with ridiculously few drops. I could get used to this!

Image

I've only dropped my eagles, Dragon Princes and Spearmen at the point where almost his entire army was down. As such, once again, I got to dictate the matchups. My goal here was to actually spread out my elites for once, and try to use aggressive Eagle/Dragon Prince moves to intercept his charges second turn and expose a flank with charge angles. I'm pretty happy with how it went down, with one unit of swordmasters on each end and my two anchor type blocks in the middle.

The coven is in a great defensible spot as well. I know he has dwellers and limited ability with ranged, so I tuck away my ring mage on his own behind the spears to reduce the potential gain of dwellers-ing my mage bunker. Knowing what I know now about the Fey Enchantress' ability to cast spells from lore of heavens, I'd have gone about this a bit differently.

Turn 1, Bretonians

Image

The Brets get first turn due to the Fey Enchantresses ability to give the blessing of the lady without giving up first turn. He wins the roll and celebrates his first turn like it's the first he's ever seen; I'm inclined to believe it actually was.

The knight buses move up to threaten turn 2 charges as I expect.

Magic is 10 v 7 - I take one away from his roll of 6 & 3, but he adds one for the enchantresses toad and he manages a channel. He starts off by rolling for her chalice of potions:

Me: "So let me get this straight - she just casts the spell that she rolls each turn"
Him: "Yeah, at it's base casting level"
Me: "Let's hope she doesn't roll too many comets then, yeesh"

He then rolls comet. You can see in the picture that he places the comet right in the middle of my battle line.

He throws 6D6 at throne, and I toss all 7 of mine for a dispel. He then attempts a powered up dwellers with 4 dice (+6 to cast on lore of life!), but fails it.

His treb misses the spearmen, and his peasants amazingly manage to take down 2 of my dragon princes

Turn 1, High Elves

Image

I move both of my eagles up to disrupt any charge attempts he might throw at me. The best he can hope for is a charge with the Knights Errant into the Eastern eagle and subsequently overrun into my swordmasters, but face a countercharge by my spearmen in the flank.

The rest of my troops move up to threaten charges in the next turn.

I roll 6 & 5 for magic, which is one of the worse rolls for me. The results end up being 12 v 8 after he adds the toad and the chalice into the mix.

I start with a 3D6 Banishment on his Knights of the Realm and score a massive 17 on the roll. He rolls 4 dice, but fails to dispel it. I get my first boxcars for banishment hits, and after the dust settles eight of his knights fall to the ground.

I throw 3D6 at another close range banishment with my level 2, but it fails by 1. I then throw 3D6 at a powered up Pha's with my Archmage, but he dispels that, and then I fail a single target Timewarp on my Western Swordmasters. Slim odds of failing two like that, but hey, it's going to happen once and a while. Overall, with 8 dead knights, I'd call the phase a success.

The comet does not arrive

Shooting sees me try to put a lucky wound on a grail knight with some archers, but fail to do anything.

With that, we move to his turn!

Turn 2, Bretonians

Image

His Grail Knights stay put, seeing the trap I'd laid for them. The other two groups of knights commit to dealing with the two eagles.

Magic is 7 v 7 - He throws 3D6 at Throne, which I allow in favour of stopping dwellers and/or Regrowth. He tries a Dwellers, makes the casting value, but I stop it with my 7 dice (He forgets the heavens spell this turn)

The comet does not arrive

Shooting sees him put a shot from the Trebuchet on my archmage, score a direct hit but only manage to kill 2 White Lions due to their cloaks. His bowmen actually turned this turn, so they put their shots on the Dragon Princes again, and manage another wound.

His knights predictably both clobber the eagles. He elects to overrun with his Knights Errant, but only manage 7", falling short of the Swordmasters, and he elects to reform with the knights of the realm rather than risk a combo charge.

Turn 2, High Elves

Two pictures for you this turn. First, the look of things after the movement phase:

Image

I start by issuing a charge on the Knights Errant from the Swordmasters, which he holds. I then issue a charge from the spearmen, from which he flees. I elect to redirect my units, all in to the Knights of the Realm.

So at this point, my charges are: Swordmasters, Swordmasters, White Lions and Spearmen all in to the Knights. All but the spearmen make their charge, with both swordmaster units being on the flanks. Yikes.

Dragon Princes continue their mission to rush the trebuchet and my mage sitting on his own gets the hell out of dodge and hides behind the hill, seeing the comet on its way.

Magic is 8 v 6 - I start with a 3D6 bubbled Pha's Protection, which he allows. It manages to hit all of my key combat units. I then throw 2D6 on another single target pha's on my spearmen, predicting the charge from the grail knights. He dispels this. Finally, I try a 3D6 light of battle on my spearmen, but he dispels this as well.

Comically, the comet does not arrive

Shooting sees me once again fail to wound the Grail Knights.

Combat:

Image

Predictably, my units decimate his unit of Knights of the Realm. I elect to overrun with both of my units of swordmasters to clear up room for a reform with my white lions and also set them up to engage the Knights Errant after they rally.

My White Lions wheel in such a way so that the only legal charge on my spearmen has his grail knights only able to get two models in contact, eliminating one side of his lance formation.

Turn 3, Bretonians


Image

His Grail Knights take the charge on my spears regardless, and his Knights Errant rally.

Magic is 5 v 4 - He remembers his Heavens spell this turn, and what do you know, another comet. I actually miss putting down the marker this turn, but his comet is set to land in between the White Lions and Western Swordmasters. I don't dispel the spell, because I want to save my defense for any buffs he's thinking of putting on his Grail Knights, namely Wildform giving them a nasty 2+ to wound my elves even without a charge.

The comet once again, does not arrive.

2D6 goes on shield of thorns, which I allow, and I dispel his final attempt at wildform on the grail knights.

Shooting sees him try another trebuchet shot on the white lions, but Pha protects them. His bowmen kill 3 swordmasters from the Western unit.

His grail knights do a commendable job in combat despite his limited attacks due to positioning. He still, however, manages to kill enough spears to leave them with the same number of ranks as him. They flee from his assault, but he elects not to pursue, as it would put him in line for a nasty rear charge from some white lions. Instead, he reforms to face the Lions.

Turn 3, High Elves

Image

Three charges this turn; Princes on his Trebuchet, Swordmasters on his Knights Errant and after some careful deliberation I decide to charge the White Lions on his Grail knights, confident in their can opening prowess.

I turn the second unit of swordmasters to threaten the flank of the grail knights in the next turn. Spearmen also rally.

Magic is 12 v 8 again. I start with a single target pha's on 2D6, which he dispels. I throw 4D6 at Timewarp on the lions (I really don't want to flub this phase), and his scroll comes out. I then cast speed of light on 2 dice, which he allows. 2 dice go at pha's protection, single target, but he dispels it and 2 more go at single target light of battle on the lions, which he dispels. So only WS10 I10 lions, for a +1 bonus to hit on the knights, but it still feels cool to cast 5 spells in one phase.

The comets both fail to arrive lolol.

Shooting has no targets, so we move right in to combat.

The Dragon Princes deal with the trebuchet crew, and reform to face the archers.

The Swordmasters roll spectacularly, and he rolls spectacularly bad. Without his blessing due to fleeing, 11 of his knights drop dead (!!). This leaves just the paladin, who gets overrun.

The White Lions manage only 4 wounds on the Grail Knights, but they have an equally bad phase, killing only 3. He loses by one, but is steadfast and holds.

Turn 4, Bretonians

Image

No movement for him in this phase.

Shooting puts another wound on my swordmasters.

Magic is 6 v 5, and the comets both finally show up. The comet of sigmar in the picture shows their approximate location and area of effect. Casualties aren't horrific, with the smaller comet hitting the two elites and the big one hitting both core.

He rolls his heavens spell and gets harmonic convergence on his grail knights. I allow this. He tries a regrowth with 3 dice and I dispel it. He then fails his 2 dice wildform attempt.

In combat, the Lions kill 5 grail knights, and his depleted unit only manages 2 casualties. He breaks from combat with his ranks depleted, and I pursue and overrun. At this point we call it a game.


After battle thoughts will come tomorrow, as I'm exhausted tonight, so I'll let you guys have the first kick at the can!

I'll say one thing though - I have a policy when it comes to comets. LET THE BULLY COME.

Hope you enjoyed reading!

D
[i]There is nothing do fear but fear itself... well, that and Toughness tests. [/i]

Check out my Army Blog for tactics, battle reports and general ramblings: [url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=35454]Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Army List Blog[/url]
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Caradryal
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/24

#349 Post by Caradryal »

Congrats on the win, a decisive victory!

I don't think you made any mistakes here that I can see although you were quite lucky on the comets late arrival :lol:

Your deployment seemed very solid and it seemed he played right into your hands by putting his buses within charge range [-X

It's great to see light magic being used so effectively, I've just started testing it out myself. Seems like a fun lore to play. Your opinion on my list would be greatly appreciated whenever you get the time as your probably ulthuans premier light Magic user.
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SpellArcher
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/24

#350 Post by SpellArcher »

Well played, looks like you outmaneouvred him nicely.

If his Chalice rolls up a Comet, it cannot be used thereafter. Not that that broke your game.

I like the Toad!
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/24

#351 Post by Brewmaster_D »

Thanks for the replies guys!

@ SpellArcher - good to know. I thought that since the Comet wasn't remains in play, that he could have multiple out.

After Battle Analysis

There's a couple moves I would have done a bit differently here, in hindsight. In my turn 2, I overrun with both of the units of Swordmasters - I think this was a mistake. I could have probably stood to reform one of them to face south and still be able to get my lions positioned properly as well. This resulted in me getting in to a 1v1 combat; Lions vs. Grail Knights.

Given, I got the charge and Lions are well suited to taking down Knights, ward or not, but one whiffed round could have seen me lose a very expensive unit with that archmage in there. Getting the Swords turned to threaten his flank would have certainly changed the way he reformed the unit (to get both units in his front arc), but at the very least it would have kept my archmage further away from those scary magic attacks.

Worked out in the end, but a bit riskier than I would have liked.

In terms of magic - Pretty solid magic defense on his behalf. Great chance for +2 dispel dice and a scroll. He did a great job of hanging on to that scroll until the turn it mattered, but I'm thinking if I hadn't whiffed my roll on the first turn for the second banishment it would have drawn it out. With this build, Lore of Light is just so threatening in every phase of the game that it really is just a matter of time before the bonus dice and spam casting takes control and forces its way though their magic defenses.

Having said that, this was one of my low(er) magic games. That critical first turn I failed two casts, so it really came down to positioning and combo charges to win it. With his focus on magic, I knew that his units were relying on the charge to win the game, hence the aggressive eagles first turn. Once the BSB and Knights of the Realm were gone, it was my game to lose, so I just had to prevent the grail knights from doing too much damage. This is mainly why I wasn't overly concerned with the comet. I didn't see a very high chance of it obliterating a unit at this stage, so I didn't want to give up my positioning advantage just to avoid it. It ended up paying off, but I wouldn't have minded to much if the thing landed on my head earlier.

His bowmen off to the side like that was a clear gambit designed to make me commit a combat block to taking them out. I wasn't biting though - I needed all my hitting power to take the real points in this match; the knights.

D
[i]There is nothing do fear but fear itself... well, that and Toughness tests. [/i]

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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/24

#352 Post by SpellArcher »

Yeah, it's a special rule of the Chalice.
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/24

#353 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi Brewmaster!

Congratulations on another win! These Brets are tough but it looked like they were just squires against your army :) A few questions/comments.

1. Did you play on narrower battlefield? It looks like it is 5 feet wide instead of usual 6.

2. It seems to me that the unit in the middle is Knights Errant not KotR?

3. The pictures look great and additional graphics are something I need to add to reports to. How do you upload them? Any special requirements from Battle Chronicler to include such?

4. This game just showed how important support is. Smaller unit of bowmen would be helpful in getting rid of the eagles, I also missed Pegasus Knights :) It would just make a more interesting game as this one was a little bit one-sided. Also, I think he was a little bit too enthusiastic with his first turn, sometimes it pays off to wait and he could use his paladins to solo charge eagles too.

5. Fleeing with Knights is somethink unlikely and I don't think it helped him. He might not be able to withstand that charge but had more chances to do so with blessing than without it later.

Your recent games are great and look so easy! If you continue like that you might find it difficult to find an opponent! :D

Cheers!
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Brewmaster_D
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/24

#354 Post by Brewmaster_D »

Hey Swordmaster!

Thanks for the kind words. Good eye too. Funny story behind the table size. There's two rooms at my local game shop, and whenever I play in the back room, my photos never seem to line up with my battle chronicler properly. I finally took a measuring tape to the damn things on Thursday - the tables are all 5' x 4'. I guess they cut them down so they'd fit in the more narrow room. Go figure lol.

My mistake on the knights mixup! The knights errant were definitely the big unit, I must have gotten them mixed up in the list. Truth be told, the difference didn't matter too much ;)

The additional graphics are just me putting a few other images in with photoshop. I think you can accomplish something similar for free with Paint.net (just google it, it's like photoshop light)

I totally agree about support. I, in a very nice way, asked him if he really needed so many huge busses. His truncated answer: "I play ultra competitively in 40k, so in fantasy I really just want to run over somebody with a bus". To each his own I suppose lol. I also think the Fey Enchantress is overkill here - apparently she costs over 500 points!

He was in a really tough situation with those knights. If he didn't flee, he'd certainly lose the unit from my combined charge. I don't think he expected me to make that combo charge with the Lions and Swordmasters though. Both swordmasters were either average or slightly above average charges, so that caught him off guard. Having said that, you're absolutely right - fleeing with them essentially let me divide his troops and isolate them one at a time. Bad move against my list.

It hasn't hit the point of having difficulty finding opponents at the store yet, but a couple of my friends have refused to play the list. The funny thing is that without Teclis, the book or a horde of white lions to blame, they don't really have anything in particular to focus their blame on.

With regards to the store - slowly but surely, I think I'm shifting the meta a bit. This list is just so proficient at taking out the big block lists that plague the store community. There's enough of a player base (about 15 or so regulars) that I haven't actually had to play the same person twice with this list yet. I'm still in the "surprise, banishment!" stage of things. I expect my games to get more difficult against an opponent who knows what to expect.

D
[i]There is nothing do fear but fear itself... well, that and Toughness tests. [/i]

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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/24

#355 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Thanks for quick answers, Brewmaster!

I observed, which is kind of funny, that I have more to ask about your opponents armies afer your games than about your own list or moves :) It says a lot about how good and comfortable you are with it and, as you hae said yourself, other players in your gaming group still have to find out the way to fight against your Coven of Light.

I think it is great that they also start to notice that there is more to the game than powerful characters and huge units. It will make the armies more varied and will ensure that you will have new challenges too! Let's just hope your gaming group is also going to do some proper thinking and come up with interesting and original ideas to their respective army lists. Just out of curiosity, do you have a cross-section through WHFB armies or there are some particular favorites?

Also, thanks for the tips about graphics. They are great especially in terms of showing spells effects. I need to find a little time to create these :)

As to table dimensions and little mistakes such as changing names for units, don't worry! It was more about me to make sure I got the report right :)

Cheers!
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Jimmy
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/24

#356 Post by Jimmy »

Thanks for the batrep Brewmaster, I'm blown away that knight buses that big can even fit in the deployment zone!

You were lucky those comets didn't arrive earlier though!
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Flaxis
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/24

#357 Post by Flaxis »

Brewmaster,

Yet another great battle report.

Thank you for sharing it with us.

Flaxis
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/24

#358 Post by KarsaOrlong »

Hey D,

Taking into consideration that you haven't had to play any list or player a second time, are there any oppOnents that you'd like to play again. Any matches that were close and could turn out much differently in a second round match up? Or are there any lists with something that you know you'd have trouble with?

KO
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/24

#359 Post by Brewmaster_D »

Hey Guys!

@ Swordmaster - I'm gifted to be near one of the busier stores in my region, with about 15 or so regulars. Between them, I think every army is covered, so finding opponents isn't really a struggle; time, however, is a different story :P

@ Jimmy - The 15 strong bus actually *just* fits in. It pretty much has to deploy right on the line lol.

@ Flaxis - Thanks! Glad you're enjoying reading them.

@ KarsaOrlong - Absolutely. I'm also gifted to have a couple tournament winners at my local shop as well. One of those players is the Warriors of Chaos player whom I played against (and put a report up) in December. I lost that match, but it was close, so I've been talking some smack about a rematch. So far, it hasn't worked out, but one of these days it'll happen.

Thanks again for the comments!

D
[i]There is nothing do fear but fear itself... well, that and Toughness tests. [/i]

Check out my Army Blog for tactics, battle reports and general ramblings: [url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=35454]Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Army List Blog[/url]
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Re: Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Blog - Updated Battle 02/24

#360 Post by Stormie »

Very interesting game- thanks for posting! I've never seen the Fay Enchantress in action before. I had to look up what she does- don't worry about the comet, your opponent played it right and naughty mister spell archer didn't check the FAQ before he posted ;)
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