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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:24 am 
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Southern Sentinel
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Location: On the path of an outcast
Greetings!

It's about time to start reports from the biggest and definitely the longest tournament in Australia - CanCon! It is a great gaming event that attracts people from all over the place. Warhammer Fantasy Battle was this time the biggest tournament (as far as I know) with 130 players which is an absolute record since a very long time. Please, consider the fact that people were coming from really far away to attend it! It is not merely a trip to another city! :)

Before I start to write about the players pack and format of the tournament I would like to highlight the situation that, in my opinion, shows how fantastic the community in Australia is. CanCon 2014 was initially planned for 80 players but due to popular demand the cap was increased at least twice to accommodate 130 gamers. However, it posed a tough logistics problem. There was not enough terrain in TO's disposal so they did what they could to provide some more. But it was still not enough. The only hope was to ask players and other club members for help. And help they did! In no time people started informing how much terrain they are going to bring and kept packing additional boxes and as a result there was not a single table empty or even lacking the terrain. The pieces were so varied that each table felt really unique and it made for a fantastic experience. I must admit this reply and selfless help of the players was something I have never heard of and I was very happy to attend a tournament where players with such fantastic attitude were to be met. Great job, guys! =D>

CanCon 2014 was, as tradition has it, 3 day event with 8 games total. A gaming marathon, if you ask me but totally worth it. This year TO's decided to use Swedish Comp and keep the armies in 10-16 brackets. Armies with comps 16+ were allowed but were treated as 16. There was also a battle comp in effect. You had to calculate the difference in composition between the armies. That was then added to the score of the softest army and deduced from the score of the hardest army, after the game.

The link to the players pack: CanCon 2014 - Player's Pack

The scenarios were in use too, sometimes with modifications and Watchtower was not played at all. What was also very useful and new was the fact that the draws were uploaded in the relevant topic so people could also check them on their mobile platforms. Also, the draw for the first round was done the day before so people could actually set up on the right table from the very beginning. An excellent idea! =D>

I took my MSU HE of course. In the meantime I was wondering if I should change the list but in the end I made only a few here and there, more in the equipment of the Loremaster than in anything else. Hence, the list was similar to what I used at ConVic, Castle Assault and Masters. It proved to be a good if unforgiving list, the one I still enjoyed playing with and had painted. Here it is with details:

Outcasts - CanCon 2014

Larry the Loremaster - level 2, Talisman of Preservation, Earthing Rod, Dragon Helm - 310 (-22)
Bob the Battle Standard Bearer - Dragon Armour, Halberd, Charmed Shield, Potion of Strength, Reaver Bow - 157 (-14)

15 Archers - Full Command - 180 (-7)
15 Sea Guard - Full Command - 210 (-6)
5 Ellyrian Reavers - Spears, Bows, Musician - 105 (-4)
5 Ellyrian Reavers - Spears, Bows, Musician - 105 (-6)

5 Dragon Princes - Musician, Banner of Eternal Flame - 175 (-10)
5 Dragon Princes - Musician - 155 (-10)
12 Swordmasters - Bladelord, Musician - 176 (-6)
12 Swordmasters - Bladelord, Musician - 176 (-6)
10 White Lions - Full Command, Gleaming Pennant - 165 (-6)
10 White Lions - Full Command, Standard of Discipline - 175 (-6)

Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower - 70 (-7)
Great Eagle - 50 (-5)
Great Eagle - 50 (-9)
5 Sisters of Avelorn - 70 (-6)
5 Sisters of Avelorn - 70 (-6)

Army Total: 2399

Number of longbows (15), Number of bows (25/2 = 12.5), Number of Bows of Avelorn (10), Bolt thrower (10), Reaver Bow (5) = 52.5 - 2 bows more than 50 (-2)

Earthing Rod (-3), Reaver Bow (-2), Banner of Discipline (-4)

300 - 147 = 153 --> Swedish Comp Score: 15.3

Not the hardest but not the softest list out there either!

I hope to write reports in regular intervals and I will try to aim for two per week but with 8 games it is a lot to write about! :) Because of that I prepared a teaser!

Game 1 - Jonathan - Warriors of Chaos - Dawn Attack

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Game 2 - Ben - Lizardmen - Battle Line

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Game 3 - Johannes - Wood Elves - Meeting Engagement

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Game 4 - Greg - Empire - Battle Line

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Game 5 - Chris - Lizardmen - Blood and Glory

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Game 6 - James - Dwarves - Battle Line

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Game 7 - Jason - Dwarves - Battle for the Pass

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Game 8 - Michael - High Elves - Battle Line

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Stay tuned! :)

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High Elves MSU - Observations

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Last edited by Swordmaster of Hoeth on Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:35 pm, edited 17 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:37 pm 
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Can you post the wood elf list early dude?

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And Grombrindal said "10 from the back, yeah?"


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:30 am 
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looking forward to read your reports!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:01 am 
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Its Johannes btw :P

Looking forward to reading this. Doesn't look like I didn't play any of these opponents this tournament but this will still be awesome!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:11 pm 
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Swordmaster, love your battle reports, looking forward to reading these ones. Am currently painting my first HE army - will it be MSU? We'll see...

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:34 pm 
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Hi Swordie,

looking forward to reading this report. You should take enough time to finish it, so most of the tactical data will shine and we can pry those nuggets out... :mrgreen: :wink:

With regards

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:24 am 
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Can I buy you a tripod for your camera?? :lol:

Good to see you're consistent with the blurry photos my friend. :wink:

Eagerly anticipating more reading material for the week.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:24 am 
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Come on buddy, bring some reports :)
But let me predict something. I think something went wrong on game 2, that's why you faced wood elves in game 3 :wink:
Empire roster seems brutal too in game 4. I can't wait to see what happened there acctually :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:45 am 
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Hi guys!

I am glad to see that you show interest in the upcoming reports! I will do my best to make them as entertaining as possible, regardless of the result!

@ LA

I am no dude, dude! But here is the list from memory (I asked TO for the lists so hopefully he will reply at some stage as he has already agreed to help!)

Treeman Ancients
Level 3 beasts
BSB

3 x Glade Guards
6 Treekin
8 Wild Riders
10 Dryads

Eagle
Treeman

@ Syleth

I am trying to write them asap but please, be patient. Real life does interfere!

@ Struthy

Thanks for the info, I was unaware I made a mistake and I would not like to do so in the name of my opponents. Corrected! :)

I really hope that you will enjoy the reports!

@ korabas

Cheers! Good Luck with painting, it can be long journey but is definitely worth taking!

@ Targ

I can assure you there are some interesting things in there. Hopefully, there will be some from my side too! :D

@ Jimmy

Yes you can, provided it is tall enough to take "eagle eye" view on the table and that it also has a function of taking a photo whenever I blink! With a focus on what I am currently looking at! :D

Yeap, I thought that without blurry pictures I would fail to express my excitement during the games. Words are not enough and besides, single picture = 1000 words! :D

I am sure there will be something to read about this week, stay tuned!

@ Galharen

I think that by now you should assume that whoever is fielding WE at a tournament should actually be feared. These guys may fight uphill battles but they do know they trade and trust me, only the toughest remained :)

Yes, all these knights and 1+ armour save all around, what not to love? :)

Ok, let me start with the introduction to game 1 to keep things going!

Game 1 - Jonathan - Warriors of Chaos - Dawn Attack

I met Jonathan at ConVic last year but we didn't have a chance to play against each other. He told me he is reading my reports and I must admit I was very happy to find out he likes them. We talked about Warhammer at a few opportunities and parted with a promise that next time we meet we should definitely gave a game.

When CanCon was on the horizon TO's started to accept grudges and to my surprise I was challenged to fight the first battle! Jonathan decided I need a proper schooling by his tough as nails Warriors of Chaos! I gladly accepted as I knew he will be a challenging but very nice opponent. What can you ask more for? :)

Jonathan brought his Slaaneshi themed Warriors and the list details were as follows:

Slaanesh Warriors - Army List

Sorceror Lord, Level 4, Mark of Slaanesh, Steed of Slaanesh, Unholy Strike, Charmed Shield, Sword of Striking, Talisman of Preservation, The Other Trickster's Shard - Lore of Slaanesh

Chaos Sorcerer Level 2, Opal Amulet, Scroll of Shielding, Shrieking Blade - Lore of Fire

Exalted Hero, Army Battle Standard , Chaos Steed (barded), Great weapon, Mark of Slaanesh, Dragonhelm, Potion of Foolhardiness, Talisman of Endurance

Chaos Chariot, Mark of Slaanesh
20 Chaos Marauders, FC, Shields, Mark of Slaanesh
15 Chaos Warriors, FC, Shields, Mark of Slaanesh, Standard of Discipline
Forsaken, Mark of Khorne
Marauder Horsemen, Shields, Mark of Slaanesh

Chimera, Regenerating Flesh
Hell Striders, Musician

Dragon Ogre Shaggoth , Extra Hand Weapon
Skullcrushers of Khorne, Musician, Ensorcelled Weapons

Swedish Comp: 15.0

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Jonathan's army in its full glory

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Picture taken by ThaneG from wargamerau.com (Thanks for permission! :))

Jonathan's army was tough and great looking force. My favourite was his Shaggoth with double blade weapon, much like Eternal Guards double blade spears. But whole army was really well painted and it was a pleasure to fight against it. I wish I had time for close ups! :)

The characters were very well protected and tough in combat. Level 4 had potentially very powerful weapon against my units in the form of Cacophonic Choir spell but whole lore of Slaanesh is very mean and dangerous. There were a few usual suspects in the form of Crushers, Shaggoth, Chimera and Chariot. Each of these was a problem I had to find a quick solution to. They are all individually beatable but the challenge lies in dividing them and beat them fast enough. And while doable it is not easy at all!

Less frequently observed choices were definitely infantry regiments. While Warriors are still acceptable then internet knowledge deems marauders and forsaken as simply useless. But I always have a respect for these "unwanted" units and I knew that in the hands of a good general they are all very dangerous.

As always against Warriors of Chaos I wanted to use the fact they are less numerous against them. It was , however, hard to plan in details as a lot depended on where particular unit is going to end up to due to scenario special rules. I wanted to shoot Chimera as I think I had a good chance of doing so if it appeared in the open. Despite the fact there were only 2 fast cavalry units they also were a priority and my own reavers would engage them first with shooting and then, if opportunity arises, in close combat.

I wanted to use the fact that the army of warriors had units that approach with different speed. Infantry would march for 3 turns before it comfortably closed to my own lines. Quite enough time to set traps and try to deal with faster elements. Shaggoth and Skull Crushers in particular. If possible, I wanted to use Crusher's frenzy against them.

Ok, let's see how the deployment turned up!

Deployment

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Armies arrayed for battle

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Surprisingly there is more chaos in the Elven ranks!

Ah well, that is not exactly what I was hoping for. Especially Sea Guard and Archers turned up on the opposite flank to what I would have preferred as their arrows will find it very difficult to harm either Shaggoth or Crushers. Loremaster had a Lion unit to hide in but that still left him very exposed. The fact that Sorcerer Lord vanguarded didn't look good either. I was worried that my scattered deployment will be hard to fix in turn one, also because I expected that the warriors will approach at a double towards my lines. Even extra distance due to deployment at the edge might not be enough to avoid early charges.

Before the battle started Jonathan rolled for spells and he obtained the following:

Sorcerer Lord - Lash of Slaanesh, Hysterical Frenzy, Slicing Shards, Cacophonic Choir :D

Sorcerer - Fireball, Flaming Sword of Ruin

Jonathan won the roll off and his was the first turn!

Slaanesh Warriors - Turn 1

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Chaos army rushes forward!

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Something went wrong for the Sorcerer Lord!

Chaos army rushes forward to meet elves before they regroup. Sorcerer Lord leads the assault at the head of the small Hellstriders unit. Seeing elven regiments in not yet perfect but crowded formation he summons his powers and calls for the aid of his deity.

Sorcerer Lord was in a foul mood. He wanted to have some fun but was instead urged by his superiors to fight some elves. While they are always good sport he noticed these are not of his favourite type. Plain clothes, bad style, even few ladies they brought with them were not half naked. And what was that with these silly bows, was that to impress him? Bah!

But the clever mind like his always finds a solution! He put on his favourite music of the most recent album by "Cacophoni" called "The Choir". He was very proud of his tuned daemonic mounted that instead of 3 pairs of boobs sported some proper class loud speakers. Now, let these wimps have a taste of a proper music!

To his astonishment he saw the portal opening. And what did he see on the other side? The stage and a crowd of daemonettes shouting "Cacophoni! Cacophoni!". Could it be? Yes indeed! His favourite music band is about to give a concert! How lucky for him that his lord Slaanesh heard his real desire and provided an opportunity to do what he wanted! And they were about to start with a blast and fireworks! Perfect!


The chaos sorcerer disappeared in the colossal blast, taking half of the unit of Hellstriders with him. A few White Lions, target of his spell, fell too but the damage was not that big considering the huge potential such accursed magic has. A few Reavers fell to the spell of a second wizard but their companions held with grim determination.

It was a start with a blast for a Chaos army but probably not exactly the type they envisioned prior to the battle.

Edit: It was a very interesting situation. Jonathan had 5 dice left for that spell and he was pondering on which version he should cast. After long deliberations he opted for a small one, targeting only a single regiment with a general hoping to kill lots of Lions and panic them from the battle field. If he only knew he was going to get IF! Lucky me he didn't cast the bubble version of that spell!

Outcasts - Turn 1

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Offence is the best defence!

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Counter attack!

Units on the West attacked immediately. First, Dragon princes charge marauders who elected to withdraw and elven knights changed the direction of the attack. However, that cost them time and they had to stop the charge that would have not reached the enemy chariot any way. At the same time Reavers attacked exposed flank of the Hellstriders. They also tried to escape but swift elven cavalry caught them and marauder horsemen that hit the fleeing unit and caused a lot of chaos in confusion.

At the same time the shooters and Loremaster focused their attention to lonely Chimera and the beast was brought down before it managed to hit the ranks of elven warriors.

The regiments on the East manoeuvred slowly with eagles tempting both hard hitters from the Chaos army to charge them.

Slaanesh Warriors - Turn 2

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Chaos army keeps advancing

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And hits hard!

Chaos Sorcerer took over the leadership of the army and led them to attack as planned. First, he unleashed Forsaken who made a very long charge avoiding flaming arrows and butchering the unit of Sisters. The impetus carried them over into the flank of second group of elven female archers.

Chaos Sorcerer decided to enact some revenge for his Lord and cast a powerful Fireball that totally obliterated the Lions body guarding elven general. It was cast with such a force that nearby Warriors were also knocked to the ground as ragtag dolls but fortunately for the Sorcerer he was just wounded by the magical feedback.

On the West Shaggoth killed an Eagle with easy but Skull Crushers restrained their blood thirst and didn't fall for the obvious trap.

Outcasts - Turn 2

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Another charge!

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Skull Crusher hold!

Elven units on both flanks attack. On the left Dragon princes successfully charge the chariot and blows are ferociously exchanged. But the evil war machine and its crew were not going anywhere.

On the right the eagle joined the attack of Dragon Princes and White Lions on the Skull Crushers. But due to little room for the attack the knights pushed away the hunters and only they hit the enemy. Although one chaos knight fell it was not enough to break the enemy and the chaotic juggernaut started to get ready to grind down arrogant elves.

(Edit: Due to initiative order I hit with DP first who killed one Crusher. Then Jonathan smartly removed the model touching White Lions and the hunters were now out of combat. My mistake!)

Slaanesh Warriors - Turn 3

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Shaggoth's rampage!

Shaggoth decided to attack elven sea guard but the elves were too afraid to hold the beast in place even if the Swordmasters were nearby to help them out. Shaggoth decided then to redirect his attack and charged the eagle. In the brutal multi unit combat the eagle was killed, elven knights were broken and run down by the furious Shaggoth and Crushers butchered the Lions who stubbornly held.

On the West the chariot broke this time from combat but elven knights, knowing it is not going to remain at the battle field, restrained from pursuit and reformed.

Chaos Sorcerer once again summoned great, unstoppable power and once again half of the elven unit perished in flames.

Outcasts - Turn 3

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Huge pressure on the Eastern Front

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Elves try to fight back with ranged attacks

Sea Guard rally and reform in a way that would expose Shaggoth flank to the attack from the archers if the beast decided to do so. At the same time it would help the archers if they were the target. But elves were not careful enough and left their own flank exposed to the Skull Crushers who have just finished killing the Lions

On the West the decision was made to direct all the fire at the remnants of the Warriors unit. The regiment was destroyed and the sorcerer barely survived magical attacks too. But then forsaken were ignored, was it a good decision by elven leaders?

Slaanesh Warriors - Turn 4

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Situation becomes very difficult for elves

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More casualties and elven leaders are left on their own!

Shaggoth and Crushers attack Sea Guard. Elves decided they need to withdraw to avoid such uneven fight but are not fast enough and the regiment is utterly destroyed by the monstrous Shaggoth. Elven right flank is in tatters.

On the left flank ignored forsaken attack elven bolt thrower and temporarily move away from the battle field. Elven leaders, although avoided the furious forsaken, could not dodge the fireball entirely and rest of the Swordmasters were destroyed.

Outcasts - Turn 4

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Elves try to fight back

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But Skull Crushers avoid combat. Khorne was not pleased.

Swordmasters attempted to attack weakened Skull Crushers but the knights surprisingly withdrew. They have already lost Khorne's blessing and now the will to fight too.

Archers managed to wound Shaggoth but the beast was still very dangerous.

Slaanesh Warriors - Turn 5

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Chaos Marauders vs Elven Leaders

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Remaining Chaos units regroup (I think Skull Crushers actually moved further away here)

Both armies are very bloodied by now but the battle is not over and they regroup for the final push. This time Chaos Sorcerer was stopped.

What would elves do now?

Outcasts - Turn 5

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Marauders surrounded

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Elven Leaders charge!

Elven cavalry surprisingly didn't attempt to charge but simply surrounded the marauders with an opening for the enemy BSB to tempt him to charge Elven Leaders. They also attacked previously ignored Foresaken and destroyed them once and for all.

On the right flank Archers wounded Shaggoth once more!

Slaanesh Warriors - Turn 6

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Last blurry picture! Hopefully you can distinguish Shaggoth from the building :D

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Charge of the BSB!

Battle Standard Bearer of the chaos army sees the opening but also is aware of the trap and decides to spoil elven plans. He noticed that they were not careful enough in setting it up and left the option to escape - through dragon princes. The elven knights fought but not good enough. One of them remained but despite encouraging shouts from the Bob the BSB he still fled and was run down by the champion of chaos who also ensured his safety.

Outcasts - Turn 6

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Larry the Loremaster does not allow Shaggoth to escape!

Disappointed that the enemy escaped, Larry the Loremaster directed his attention at the Shaggoth. He cast deadly spells and eventually managed to magically assault the brain of the beast and finish it!

Reavers attempted to charge the marauders but there were still too many of them to break and that unit remained intact.

The survivors of both armies disengaged and it looked like elves managed to carry the day by the narrowest of margins!

After-battle thoughts

First of all I would like to thank Jonathan for a great game and the fact that he called a challenge. It was a great honour to accept and I really appreciate that he wanted to play against me in his first game in CanCon! What is more, and I hope Jonathan will be happy to know that, it was 100th report with MSU army! Hurray! :D

I managed to sneak 11-9 win from that game and was very lucky to get the spells last turn to hunt down the Shaggoth. At the same time I would like to applaud Jonathan for not giving up and meticulously clawing his way back from the disaster of the first turn. He was brutally efficient with his attacks and I am not sure who should get MVP for this game. Contenders, in my opinion, would be level 2 fire sorcerer, Shagoth and Forsaken, even if they didn't earn that many points by themselves.

I also wanted to say I am actually happy that the game was close in the end as it made for a much more pleasant experience for both of us when it looked like it can be a very one sided battle after turn 1.

There are of course a few things I should have done way better :)

1. I risked stand and shoot with Sisters and that was a mistake. I had enough distance to flee and rally later on. Instead, I risked unnecessarily and Forsaken were in my back yard. What is more, I chose to shoot at depleted but way slower warriors, who were also in worse position to attack. I should have aimed at Forsaken with bolt thrower, reaver bow and some magic missiles too.

2. Combined charge on the Skull Crushers was done badly. I had to push the eagle to combat but in the hindsight it was a mistake. I could have charged with the Lions only. That would have allowed me to attack 2 crushers instead of 3 and maximise the amount of attacks. While not bullet proof it would have been a better idea. What is more, I could have waited one more turn and manoeuvre more to surround them from better angles. I lost nothing by not engaging in combat while I could use the opportunity to push the units around my enemy, Shaggoth included.

It then backfired badly as I lost combat and 3 units, also because of bad positioning of the Sea Guard.

3. I don't understand why I didn't attack marauders when my characters charged Forsaken. I had all the odds to win the combat and keep that unit in place. I had enough attacks to cripple them and BSB was on a single wound too (I think I managed to cast a spirit leach on him, another mistake as I should have cast it on wounded sorcerer instead to stop these damn fireballs!). At least I would have held them long enough for the characters to help later. Instead, I also positioned Dragon Princes badly and allowed BSB to charge them and break them. Yes, they were taking LD7 break with a re-roll but there was no reason for me to do it in the first place.

I hope it was entertaining report and I am looking forward to read your comments!

Cheers!

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High Elves MSU - Observations

Rabidnid wrote:
Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?


Last edited by Swordmaster of Hoeth on Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:37 pm 
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Hi Swordie,

I see the deploy is up. Am checking Your page 2-3 times a day if there´s anything new... :mrgreen:
Swordmaster report adict? :wink:

As to the deploy, considering the nature of the dawn attack, it is ok. I would have placed DPs more to the right, but that is my prefefence.

For me - Right flank: DPs into shaggoth, eagle forces a nice skullcrusher overrun where the unit gets flanked with either swords or lions.
The other unit comes to help. Right flank solved. :wink:

On the left - shoot hellstriders. DPs shoould rule it against light units and charriot.

If the ruin in the middle is treated as one building, I would place swords with Bob inside. At least before chaos warriors come closer, they would have been a total pain in the .ss and Bobs Battle standard would have increased range.
+ You can threaten anyone You want with the bow.
So for me - if the ruins is one building, Bob is too far. 8)

With regards

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:00 pm 
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Hi swordmaster! I really like the look on the battlefield and deployment for your part, I think you will make the warriors really feel the pain in this one! If you get lucky you can avoid a part from your opponents nasty stuff for a while with the help off your reavers/eagles! The chimera should not be too much of a problem for if the dragonprinces with the flamebanner is on the left i guess? The chariot could be dealt with by the arrows from sisters and eagleclaw. The two biggest problems here i think is to beat the skullchruchers and the two big units. You do not have that much on your right flank that can deal with chruchers, so i think i would try to stall it with the eagle, and try to get lucky with the archers and eagleclaw on the shaggoth! (If the eagleclaw get the opportunity to see him that is!)

Either way I think you will take this on home, it will be a close on, but in the end i think the elves will stand victorious!

Goodluck to you! And thank you for your great battlereports!

popquq


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:09 am 
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Do Hellstriders have a Ward? I've never faced them and hasn't seen a report with them, I think.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:47 am 
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Once they've defeated some units in combat they do get a 4+ ward save- trouble is by then they've actually had to fight stuff and have probably mostly died by then, or the game is probably almost over. If you can get them into a chain of warmachines they might get their boost and still have time to get into another combat.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:34 am 
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Hi guys!

The report is on so you can verify your predictions!

@ Targ

I wish I could post reports more often to satisfy your needs! But I am afraid I cannot do it that fast!

As I have promised I wanted to comment on not having DP champion with the star lance here. If I had him he would have been positioned on the left flank. That means I would have been able to kill that chariot on the charge. Then I would have been able to attack enemy BSB directly and had a good chance to kill him as he was wounded and didn't have high ward save.

On the other hand, champions on WL had no chance to prove their worth this game at all.

As you saw I failed to use my numbers superiority on the right flank and combined with some bad decisions and no skills in dice rolling I lost many units on that flank.

The left flank went better but only because the lord exploded turn 1. While I did well to capitalize on it turn 1 my further decisions were simply bad.

The feature in the middle were just ruins, hence I didn't want to move there. If it were a building that would have been very tempting.

@ popquq

Thanks!

I actually had DP with the banner on the right but that was ok since I had sisters on the left. So I think that was a difficult decision for my opponent as he had to choose between shooting flaming attacks or combat flaming attacks.

I had tools to deal with Crushers but I failed to use them. I attempted to divide two units and attack them separately but that didn't really work either. I didn't move Swordmasters aggressively enough to allow them to join the fight and some bad decisions cost me many units.

I was very happy to get that narrow win but I am definitely not happy with the decisions I made. I know I didn't underestimate my opponent at all. But maybe I relaxed too early?

@ f00ssa

I don't have the book with me at the moment so I don't know what they start with but as Stormie says they gain some things in the course of battle.

Their main strength, though, is their insane speed and the fact that their mounts are quite good in combat too!

@ Stormie

Cheers, Stormie! I am glad people are discussing stuff and helping each other with questions and answers when I am not around. Very much appreciated! :)

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:38 am 
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Always great reading your quality reports and antics with the MSU force SM. There isn’t enough consistent battle reporters on here so I take my hat off to you as I know I speak for many members on the forum but a lot of us hang out for your reports and they’re in high demand! They’re read easily, commented by you with humour, easy to navigate with the diagrams – you’re a real credit to the community. Typing this as I go so please forgive me for anything that has already been said or addressed in your/other comments.

Opponents list has some interesting choices, firstly Slaanesh isn’t seen as a strong choice (not that I agree), Marauders and Forsaken hardly get seen so I like the variety it brings and still brings strong choices like the Chimera and Skullcrushers (when combined with the frenzy spell – ouch!) Lot’s of threats to take on/out MSU forces.

Deployment – I certainly think you’ve got the initiative here, all units in place to divert and play games and he’s separated his forces and left his frenzied troops outside of the general’s range which is always something to consider. I feel on the right flank you’ve got more than enough tools to deal with the job in terms of taking out the skullcrushers whilst diverting the Shaggoth or vice versa. Biggest threats for your forces in the opening frame I think is the Hellstriders and character and of course your arch nemesis – enemy fast cavalry! Would have been nice to spread the BSB’s ‘Hold Your Ground’ a little more central but unfortunately it was just never going to happen.

Turn 1 – No guessing of the Warrior tactics here, rush forwards! Ouch, We’ve seen this a bit in your games (last game from HoD comes to mind against Lizards!) and poor old Johnathon just playing his first game for the day, not a good feeling. A solid part of the enemy force has been taken out, now can your capitalise on the opening provided? Well calculated charges and bringing down and enemy unit let alone 3 in the opening frame is a fantastic result. Great job on taking out the Chimera (Spirit Leech?) as I feel these can bring a boat load of trouble to your army if not handled correctly. Eastern flank setup for counter charges.

Turn 2 – Oh no, I feel for your opponent a little now, a miscast each turn?!?! By memory how many warriors did it kill? Enough to cripple the unit or not overly? Lonesome Larry on the run. Good to see the Khornates using their brains and not rushing in! Did the Shaggoth reform at all to face obvious incoming threats? Smart play bu Johnathon on casualty removal however if you’d had your time over would you have just charged the White Lions + Dragon Prince to prevent this? Seems like the Great Eagle would have given up easy wounds and potentially could have been saved to cause more havoc on the enemy in later turns? This would have also prevented a flank charge on eagle?

Turn 3 – On this combat, can you clarify for me how it works, did the Shaggoth have a flank or front charge? If he killed the Eagle wouldn’t he then be out of base to base contact only meaning the wounds he caused count towards the combat (ie – no charge bonus, flank etc). Second to this, is he eligible to pursue a broken enemy or reform only? This situation rarely comes up for me and it’s been a long time since it happened. Sorcerer knows how to cast fireballs that’s for sure. Did you attempt to dispel this?

Do you feel you made the right choice in ignoring the Forsaken? Was there an opportunity to charge with the Swordmasters (avoiding further magic damage) and Reavers into the Chaos Warriors and use the Dragon Princes to redirect the Marauders? This could have possibly allowed the Swordmasters to dispatch the Warriors and reform to face the Forsaken/Marauders whilst using ER1 to re-direct the other threat?

Turn 4 – Very clever to conserve points for your opponent. Very much out of character however!

Turn 5 – Was Johnathon expecting the charge from BSB/Larry? I’m not sure dancing around the Marauders for another turn was a good call? Sure a charge may not have broken the unit but a pretty good opportunity to take out the level 2 and even BSB?

Turn 6 – Did you anticipate the charge against the Dragon Princes at all? At least all of those wounds from the Archers counted for something against the Shaggoth but what a bloody hard fought scraping victory. Did you know how close the game was? Any thoughts of charging the Reavers in and trying to knock off the level 2?

Final thought – One thing I learned about playing with the Tomb Kings very quickly was not to create a backline for my army that the enemy could charge through, overrun and repeat. Often I see players sometimes fail to realise what they’ve done and put together warmachines/units in straight lines begging to be charged. Your units of sisters were somewhat an example of this against the charge from the Forsaken, granted it was a long charge and very above average however if you’d deployed them a few more inches apart it could have changed the situation and as a bonus possibly prevents panic tests from units destroyed within 6”.

Ironically again your opponent loses his main spell caster and once again you’re really tested!

Strangely enough in the games I think you’ll walk over your opponent it tends to be the opposite where as when I see you line up against armies I can’t crack you treat them like children.

Always entertaining reads and as per usual looking forward to the second game!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:14 am 
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Crushers can pick fleeing as a reaction from a charge?

Thanks for the report, looking forward to the rest.

Cheers,

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:10 pm 
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Loremaster and bsb killed foresakens on their own?:)

Well, woch is always a tough match-up for us, but again a cascade saved your day :mrgreen: I think that chaos lord would have made a quite big mess there on the western fank.

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SM-

It has been a while since I commented but never fear, I have been avidly reading all your reports. :D

Deployment: Not much to say due to Dawn Attack. I do want to ask if you had an opportunity to vanguard the Reaver up first to block the forward vanguard of the HellStriders? With your deeper deployment, you could have bought a turn of no Caco bomb, which is particularly devastating against MSU. BTW, something the Shadow Warriors can do much more easily due to Scouting before vanguard.

Spirit Leach Targets: The L2 should have been an absolute priority, especially after he lost a wound. Not only does it give you magic dominance, it takes away his only ranged threat. You can then have your characters run around on their own and get the Loremaster to optimal ranges for hexes/buffs. You can also risk units without risking your general/bsb.

Charge on the SC: I agree wholeheartedly that you still had more time and should have played a more patient game. The pressure is on the WoC player due to the early loss of his general. With that said, if you were hankering on putting the hammer down and make the charge, there were better ways to do it.

1. Charge the Eagle at the Shaggoth and then send both units in to maximize those high strength attacks.
2. Cross streams. Eagle still goes in, but have the White Lions and Dragon Princes switch spots. You still hold to the principal of maximization if my math is right. Down side, you lose 4 ASF ST5 attacks and the WoC player can direct more attacks at the softest target. Upside is as he pulls models, it will be from those that are in contact with ones that have already struck and will lose its charge bonus on the next round. You would also gain 6-9 extra ST6 attacks.

I still think playing the delay game is the most optimal strategy.

Looking forward to next report.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:17 pm 
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ImrikTheDragonLord wrote:
Crushers can pick fleeing as a reaction from a charge?

Thanks for the report, looking forward to the rest.

Cheers,


They lost frenzy so are no longer Immune to Psychology. Very un-Khorne like in my opinion but this is a tournament after all. :D

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Hi guys!

Thanks a lot for so many comments! Very much appreciated and I am happy to know the report stirs nice discussion!

@ Jimmy

Thanks a lot, mate! Your kind words are a great motivation to keep me going!

I will try to address your comments with appropriate quotations for easier read (hopefully! :))

Jimmy wrote:
Opponents list has some interesting choices, firstly Slaanesh isn’t seen as a strong choice (not that I agree), Marauders and Forsaken hardly get seen so I like the variety it brings and still brings strong choices like the Chimera and Skullcrushers (when combined with the frenzy spell – ouch!) Lot’s of threats to take on/out MSU forces.

After playing some games against Slaaneshi themed lists I must say that the magic of this particular chaos god is really nasty. It may be less direct but it is potent. It is not only about Choir (which is of course very dangerous but hard to cast as a bubble) but how it messes up your movement! Random movement can either prevent manoeuvres you intended to do or simply force you to attack something you don't want.

I am not sure if Jonathan took Marauders and Forsaken for the purpose of increasing his Composition score but it was good to see them and I don't think he regretted doing so for the rest of the tournament. Small units of Forsaken in particular are very, very interesting and useful, in my opinion.

Jimmy wrote:
Deployment – I certainly think you’ve got the initiative here, all units in place to divert and play games and he’s separated his forces and left his frenzied troops outside of the general’s range which is always something to consider. I feel on the right flank you’ve got more than enough tools to deal with the job in terms of taking out the skullcrushers whilst diverting the Shaggoth or vice versa. Biggest threats for your forces in the opening frame I think is the Hellstriders and character and of course your arch nemesis – enemy fast cavalry! Would have been nice to spread the BSB’s ‘Hold Your Ground’ a little more central but unfortunately it was just never going to happen.

Interesting because my first impression was that I am in bad shape. The characters, in particular the general, showed up on the lft flank so I had to compensate by positioning BSB nearby.

I was also concerned with lack of range to BSB on the right flank. I might have had the advantage in numbers but I was facing terror and fear causing enemies and with Ld8 and no re-rolls (or Ld9 for DP's) it was not that comfortable. I am not saying I was in a disadvantage but somehow I was not happy with my scattered army :) I also missed the fact that I could not position archers and sea guard in the centre. They would have been of better use there.

Of course my opponent had his own problems. As you said, having frenzied unit out of range of the general and in particular of the BSB was probably not what he wanted.

I was looking forward to the clash of the fast cavalry units though and I felt I had a good advantage here because I could back my light horse with the knights but more importantly, I had bows! I could run around and shoot them or position myself in a stand and shoot range and force the charge or make them run away if they didn't want to be charged. I find it very advantageous that I can move, release 5 shots, stand and shoot with 5 more and on top of it strike first with 5 attacks! it may sound as not much but against 5 strong fast cavalry units it matters a lot and you don't need to divert other shooters to that duty. Also important as they might be needed elsewhere!

Jimmy wrote:
Turn 1 – No guessing of the Warrior tactics here, rush forwards! Ouch, We’ve seen this a bit in your games (last game from HoD comes to mind against Lizards!) and poor old Johnathon just playing his first game for the day, not a good feeling. A solid part of the enemy force has been taken out, now can your capitalise on the opening provided? Well calculated charges and bringing down and enemy unit let alone 3 in the opening frame is a fantastic result. Great job on taking out the Chimera (Spirit Leech?) as I feel these can bring a boat load of trouble to your army if not handled correctly. Eastern flank setup for counter charges.

You could see that on his face! I felt really sorry for him as he was so nicely pumped for that game and then the dice gods betrayed him. Fortunately he didn't give up and as the game progressed he regained his enthusiasm. Great spirit! =D>

I was very glad I managed to exploit the opportunity. I was ready to charge these small cavalry units anyway. Even Hellstriders as I hoped to kill them all with my light troops and then hopefully break the Sorcerer as a result as he does not have that many attacks to compensate.

I can't recall what exactly I did to Chimera but I believe I tried burning gaze and fireball and that might have taken away a few wounds and Sisters probably finished the beast off as they are very good at it. S4, AP and Flaming with BS5 at short range even with only 10 of them is simply great!

I was very happy with my opening moves and it looked bad for Jonathan. I think I was too relaxed from now on and that resulted in totally different outcome. :)

Jimmy wrote:
Turn 2 – Oh no, I feel for your opponent a little now, a miscast each turn?!?! By memory how many warriors did it kill? Enough to cripple the unit or not overly? Lonesome Larry on the run. Good to see the Khornates using their brains and not rushing in! Did the Shaggoth reform at all to face obvious incoming threats? Smart play bu Johnathon on casualty removal however if you’d had your time over would you have just charged the White Lions + Dragon Prince to prevent this? Seems like the Great Eagle would have given up easy wounds and potentially could have been saved to cause more havoc on the enemy in later turns? This would have also prevented a flank charge on eagle?

Yes, he was horrified that his wizards are on fire, literally! :D The casualties rate was really high, I think he easily killed more than half by his miscasts. That is why I managed to shoot them all down with Sisters, Bolt Thrower and reaver Bow only.

I think I didn't make the diagram properly. Shaggoth was in the front arc of the eagle and he saw everything perfectly so there was a decision to make what to charge.

I had to move the eagle, otherwise I would have to charge with Lions only and I think I would have clipped Shaggoth with Princes on the other flank if I charged without the birdy. The eagle actually was not wounded much that combat. I was too optimistic about being able to break the crushers on the charge as it looked nice at the start. I had many attacks from lions but not many returning. But of course it was wrong thinking and Johnathan did well with a proper model removal. Good lesson for me here.

Looking at the situation from the hindsight I definitely think I was impatient here. I could even move reavers to prevent that counter charge from the Shaggoth but I didn't #-o

Jimmy wrote:
Turn 3 – On this combat, can you clarify for me how it works, did the Shaggoth have a flank or front charge? If he killed the Eagle wouldn’t he then be out of base to base contact only meaning the wounds he caused count towards the combat (ie – no charge bonus, flank etc). Second to this, is he eligible to pursue a broken enemy or reform only? This situation rarely comes up for me and it’s been a long time since it happened. Sorcerer knows how to cast fireballs that’s for sure. Did you attempt to dispel this?

Ok, that was actually a very interesting situation. Let's start from my previous turn though as it was part of the situation.

Because of the initiative order DP's hit first and killed one crusher. We asked the referee how to proceed as we didn't know for sure. He ruled Jonathan can remove crusher from either side, whatever he chooses. Question then, would the rule that you need to have as many models in combat as possible still applies or does the owning player have a total freedom in it?

We proceed with Lions out of combat but then the ref also rules out that since the enemy is not broken, Lions need to slide back into contact. Is that correct?

Ok, now turn 3. Shaggoth charges the eagle from the front and is in contact only with the bird. Eagle is killed and elves loose combat. Dragon Princes break. The ref ruled that because it was multiple combat then Shaggoth still is entitled to its pursue and chases Dragon princes. Again, is that correct?

I didn't question the call of the referee as I trusted him and I was ok with ruling anyway. But I think it would be good to analyse this and find out if that was the proper solution. And if not how should it be done for future reference.

I definitely did try to stop him but as he had only one spell left that could harm me he kept rolling all his dice and even against level 2 it is hard to dispel if you don't have enough dispel dice :)

Jimmy wrote:
Do you feel you made the right choice in ignoring the Forsaken? Was there an opportunity to charge with the Swordmasters (avoiding further magic damage) and Reavers into the Chaos Warriors and use the Dragon Princes to redirect the Marauders? This could have possibly allowed the Swordmasters to dispatch the Warriors and reform to face the Forsaken/Marauders whilst using ER1 to re-direct the other threat?

I definitely regret letting Forsaken to have a free ride. While one can discuss the risks involved with stand and shoot reaction by Sisters then following turn they should have been eliminated instead of attacking warriors. While warriors are still dangerous they were depleted, they don't have re-rolls to hit due to hatred and don't have special attacks either, not to mention they are simply slower.

Hm, I like to think it was a little bit too far away for Swordmasters to charge warriors but maybe I just didn't check and simply wanted to blast them from afar. A good question and an opportunity I should be looking for. While shooting is handy I should always be ready to charge. With both characters participating I should be able to deal quite a lot of damage. Thanks, mate! That is very good point!

I was definitely too static and it seemed like I am giving away the initiative for the delusional safety of ranged attacks.

Jimmy wrote:
Turn 4 – Very clever to conserve points for your opponent. Very much out of character however!

Hard to blame the player! But I predict he has some future Forsaken from that regiment :D

Jimmy wrote:
Turn 5 – Was Johnathon expecting the charge from BSB/Larry? I’m not sure dancing around the Marauders for another turn was a good call? Sure a charge may not have broken the unit but a pretty good opportunity to take out the level 2 and even BSB?

I think he did or at least wanted to put a pressure on them in case I didn't charge with them. Forsaken can have KB so that may help too! And the units was small and expendable so he didn't risk anything with them.

No, that was not good decision at all. I should have charged then and reform characters and be ready to charge again. I might have taken casualties and maybe even lose some units in the process but there was much more to gain.

Another bad decision on my part :(

Jimmy wrote:
Turn 6 – Did you anticipate the charge against the Dragon Princes at all? At least all of those wounds from the Archers counted for something against the Shaggoth but what a bloody hard fought scraping victory. Did you know how close the game was? Any thoughts of charging the Reavers in and trying to knock off the level 2?

I did. I foolishly assumed I will survive the attack and then hold for characters to charge in and kill the guy. In fact, it would have to be a challenge so I wanted to save that unit of dragon Princes. The thing was that I didn't want BSB to move away. But instead of blocking the path with DP's I should have done that with characters, separating them. Or even move one of them to join the princes for that matter.

Too many bad calls I am afraid. Instead of earning extra 200+ points I lost 155 more for that unit. maybe even 400 points swing in that single situation. :(

Jimmy wrote:
Final thought – One thing I learned about playing with the Tomb Kings very quickly was not to create a backline for my army that the enemy could charge through, overrun and repeat. Often I see players sometimes fail to realise what they’ve done and put together warmachines/units in straight lines begging to be charged. Your units of sisters were somewhat an example of this against the charge from the Forsaken, granted it was a long charge and very above average however if you’d deployed them a few more inches apart it could have changed the situation and as a bonus possibly prevents panic tests from units destroyed within 6”.

Excellent idea, mate! Really, really good and I am surprised I didn't use it. If not 6", then at least make sure nothing overruns from one unit to another. What I did is to create an opportunity for the enemy to charge one unit and then hit second from the flank! #-o

Jimmy wrote:
Ironically again your opponent loses his main spell caster and once again you’re really tested!

Strangely enough in the games I think you’ll walk over your opponent it tends to be the opposite where as when I see you line up against armies I can’t crack you treat them like children.

Always entertaining reads and as per usual looking forward to the second game!

Haha! That's a good one! Maybe it is when I am able to focus better? It is not always the case of course but I would love to live up to that reputation. :)

In fact, I cannot pinpoint the problem yet but there was something amiss. Not enough decisiveness, too many bad decisions, quite passive approach or too impatient moves. Hm, I wonder where is that coming from but I am sure that with the detailed comments like yours, we will find out how to help me out to be better!

Thanks a lot, Jimmy! I really appreciate the time you invested into reading and writing the comments. They are great so, please, keep them coming!

@ ImrikTheDragonLord

Thanks!

Yes, it was possible, because they lost combat previously and as a result where not frenzied any more.

Jimmy the Ninja was first to reply! :)

@ Galharen

Yes, all but one and he fled :)

I am aware of the advantage I had with no Sorcerer Lord present any more and that is why I am worried about my performance and inability to get a better result.

@ Hinge

Thanks a lot and don't worry! I am happy to know that you keep reading them and they are entertaining enough to come back for more! But as always, your comments and wisdom is very much appreciated so thanks for jumping in!

I believe Jonathan move his striders first so not much of a chance to block their vanguard. It is something I need to remember though when moving my units. Even if he moved first I could position my own cavalry in some kind of line so that it makes harder to move around while he cannot charge them with the striders in his frist turn. Indeed, Shadow Warriors would have been perfect for that role!

I totally agree about the level 2 and him being the target. As I have mentioned before, I made a lot of poor decisions and it was one of them. Hopefully I will not do it again in the future games to play. :)

Well, it seemed to me I fell into my own trap. I have no idea why but I assume people would charge the eagle when it is the most obvious bait ever. I should do it differently. Position the eagle so that if they do charge it then I am in the position to counter as usual. But if they don't either rinse and repeat or attack in a smart way. Like decreasing the number of models in base to base contact.

I must admit I don't understand myself why I didn't push poor eagle to charge the Shaggoth. :( It was such an obvious choice to make.

Hm, is the crossing the charges actually allowed? I remembered something (maybe from previous editions) that it is not quite so? or am I making that up? If it is allowed then of course it would have been a better solution indeed.

Yes, as I have mentioned before, more decisiveness when needed and more patience when required. It seemed I messed and mixed that up hence the less impressive result and kind of lucky win with that last turn shaggoth hunt.

Thanks again for the comments guys! Hopefully I will be able to get the report from game 2 ready soon. Expect something on Sunday as the latest option.

Cheers!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:18 am 
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Great answers SM:

Quote:
Because of the initiative order DP's hit first and killed one crusher. We asked the referee how to proceed as we didn't know for sure. He ruled Jonathan can remove crusher from either side, whatever he chooses. Question then, would the rule that you need to have as many models in combat as possible still applies or does the owning player have a total freedom in it?


I don’t think that needed ruling, casualty removal is pretty simple. However because this removed the White Lions from the combat I don’t think they would have slid over, rather only wounds they caused (in this case none) would count towards the combat resolution. That’s my interpretation anyway but I’d love other people’s feedback.

Interestingly enough with the Shaggoth combat I’d need some clarification. The Shaggoth would have been striking last wouldn’t he? If that’s the case then yes I think he was entitled to pursue the Dragon Princes.

Quote:
Another bad decision on my part


Admittedly you make far less of these than the average player so I wouldn’t be too hard on yourself.

Quote:
In fact, I cannot pinpoint the problem yet but there was something amiss. Not enough decisiveness, too many bad decisions, quite passive approach or too impatient moves. Hm, I wonder where is that coming from but I am sure that with the detailed comments like yours, we will find out how to help me out to be better!


Well I’ve had my arse handed to me from you before so I know how in depth your thought processes are even before any charges are declared. Perhaps taking that ‘extra’ 30 seconds to completely not only think about your strategy but sometimes more importantly think about what your opponent is trying to achieve and what you would do if you were commanding his army. Sounds all basic stuff but it’s so easy to get tunnel vision and forget about this stuff.

As per usual, I thank you again and eagerly anticipate the next battle report!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:38 pm 
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Yep, any competent player will not charge the eagle with the SC. However, you do it again the next turn and the next turn. Each turn you should get a little better positioning and he will eventually fail his frenzy restraint (ld8 with no Re-roll unless he has gleaming pendant) and be forced to charge. Time was on your side.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:56 am 
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Thanks for more comments guys! :)

@ Jimmy

I didn't have much time to look up the rulebook so I don't know yet what I would really do in the situation that followed but hopefully we will have some ideas. If not, I will prepare some diagrams and post it in the rules section. Would be great to know what other players think and how would they play in the same situation.

I guess I got used to playing games in a better style and MSU is not forgiving way either, so I simply try to find out the reasons why I played how I did in order to avoid similar situations in the future. You are spot on with these extra seconds to reconsider. For example, I have noticed that very often I tend to to focus too much on the particular moment instead of trying to anticipate the consequences for later. Good players do plan ahead and can quickly adapt to the changing conditions.

It is quite interesting in itself. Sometimes it is not quite possible to learn during the game itself, at least for me the time flow seems to speed up. So reports are a chance to catch up and somehow prepare myself for next games with the conclusions gained from the previous ones. But how one trains himself to do so during the game without spending too much time?

Ah well, I think I will leave such philosophical deliberations for another time :)

@ Hinge

All I can say is that I totally agree and as I tried to explain above, I am wondering about my decision making process. I am not a beginner any more but I tend to make these silly mistakes. Be impatient when time is my ally but be indecisive when direct action is required.

Cheers!

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@SM-

I think this is the "feel" for the game. I have noticed I go through periods where I wonder about my decision making and I get my head handed to me. Trying to get the feel back during a major tournament never works, nor does practice games against club mates (just to much familiarity). This is when I find a small one day RTT to attend and it always seems to right itself.

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Hi Swordie,

thanks for another interesting report. Your turn two is crucial. I think You should have attacked as you said - so lions only and DPs + eagle do some manouvering.
But when You did attack in the way You did - You should have realy avoided adding Shaggoth to the fight. So If Your enemy was kind enough to charge lotherns, You should have taken it. I know Shaggoth can devastate them pretty much, but You would have kept those DPs alive and in combat. Even if they fled, they would have been left with some more place to either flee or regroup.

On Your opponents part, I think he should not have attempted to charge the LSG with Shaggoth as that divided his forces and had given You the chance to get those skullcrushers down. (I know maybe, but still...)

And Yes, I was questioning the reason not to charge those riders. Those chaos characters on one wound would have been ideal for Bob, I think.

A pitty, but a good and solid report still. Great reading for my morning coffee!

Rules stuff:
SHaggoth pursue: "Units on the winning side are each allowed to pursue only a single unit that they are in contact with..."
Page 60, Multiple combats section PURSUE. Small Book.

So if the Shaggoth was not in contact with the princes, then he could not have pursued them.

Removing models: There is the specification that you can remote them from the rear rank. I have to check FAQ for more, but from the book he could have done it.

Crossing charges: Section in the multiple charges (page 23, small book) gives You only the obligation to fit as many models into contact as possible. Thats it.

With regards

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:40 am 
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Hi guys!

Thanks a lot for comments!

@ Hinge

It is quite interesting what you say. While I understand why playing against regular opponents might not help immediately then adopting on the fly during the tournament might be very handy. In fact, it is not unlikely for a player to start strong but then lose his "feel" as you say and vice versa.

At the same time why playing in a small tournament is so different?

Having a worse day is ok and acceptable but I do think that a good and experienced player can deal with that. His "feel" for the game may be stronger or weaker but definitely should not be gone.

Ah well, I'd better write the next report so we can focus on what really matters, the game! :)

@ Targ

I think you missed the part when I said I held with Sea Guard but had to flee due to failed terror test. Then Shagoth simply changed the direction of the attack and I could not prevent that.

Thanks a lot for rules clarifications!

Cheers!

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High Elves MSU - Observations

Rabidnid wrote:
Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:38 pm 
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Greetings!

I guess it is about time to move to game 2! This time it was typical battle line. I had a great pleasure to play against Ben and his Lizardmen army:

Game 2 - Ben - Lizardmen - Battle Line

Lizardmen are still relatively new army so I didn't know what to expect in particular. It turned out that Ben took something that I might call a classically looking Lizardmen army with some interesting twists.

Lizardmen - Army List

Slann, BSB, Level 4 - Knows all signature spells
Scar Veteran on Carnosaurus
Skink Chief on Ripperdactyl, The Egg, 1+ armour save

30 Saurus Warriors, FC
10 Skink Skirmishers
10 Skink Skirmishers
10 Skink Skirmishers
10 Skink Cohort
10 Skink Cohort

30 Temple Guard, FC
Ancient Stegadon
3 Ripperdactyls

I become used to the Lizardmen armies with Slann with Loremaster ability (i.e. knows all signature spells) in the Temple Guard and some more Saurus Warriors forming the backbone of the army. They are very tough, numerous enough to shrug off some casualties and very good at grinding match.

A few skink clouds nicely added to the army with their ability to be very annoying for almost all of my small and fragile units. I had means to deal with them and I had to do that in order to have more freedom in the movement phase.

Stegadon Ancient was a very good addition too. This beast is really tough and hard to kill. What was more surprising is the presence of another beast, Carnosaur, ridden by the Scar Veteran. Fortunately for me I don't have any big targets for it to hunt. It still is very dangerous for my army as with plenty of attacks from both rider and mount as well as thunder stomps, there is a chance I might lose a unit per combat phase.

Another novelty is ripperdactyl unit, further reinforced with the presence of the skink chieftain. He carried that accursed item that potentially can generate enough number of S5 hits to kill my entire units. It did happen before! So I was kin to get rid of that unit if I could!

Deployment

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River across the battle field - curse or blessing?

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Deployment of the armies after vanguard moves

The main terrain feature that was about to determine the outcome of the battle was the river. It had a potential to either slow down the units (or more!) or to help me against these big blocks of saurus. If I only could force a fight against them in the river then they would not have their ranks bonus. They would lose their steadfast option too, meaning, I had a very good chance to defeat them thanks to sheer number of wounds inflicted.

Would that work though?

The Lizardmen characters deployed in their units i.e. Slann with Temple Guard and Chief with Ripperdactyls. Loremaster joined Lions on the East while BSB led one of the regiments of Swordmasters to the battle.

Surprisingly I won the first turn! That does not happen often!

Outcasts - Turn 1

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Opening charge by Dagon Princes

Elven army, using the opportunity granted by the seized initiative, move forward. Some of the troops try to shoot at the big targets but the opening salvos were not yet successful.

On the other hand, Dragon princes guarding the Western flank, made a very long charge when enemy ripperdactyls got a little bit closer. The skink chief cracked his accursed egg but even that didn't stop the eleven knights. They fought well and despite being the target of the curse of the frog, they defeated, broke and destroyed the enemy in pursuit. Nearby skinks were also panicked by this unexpected attack. Sadly, only a single knight survived that bloody combat and he was about to receive multitudes of poisonous darts from two other skink regiments closing in fast.

(Edit: It was a very lucky charge where I decided I have nothing to lose to try when I needed a double 6 to make it. The egg took 2 knights I think and that significantly reduced the power of the attack but I managed to survive the attacks back and it was enough to break that annoying regiment!)

Lizardmen - Turn 1

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Coldblooded steamroller started to move

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Valiant elven knights meets his end

At a mere gesture of the slann's finger the entire army starts moving forward. The huge blocks of Saurus stay together with Scar Veteran on Carnosaurus leading the way and Stegadon keeping up with the slightly faster pace than that of the infantry phalanx.

On the West, two skink skirmishers groups surround lone elven knight and even his ancient armour is not enough to protect him as one of the poisonous darts finds its way.

Outcasts - Turn 2

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Look, that photo is actually in focus! :)

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Another unit of Dragon Princes charges the enemy!

Some of the elven units advanced to have a better line of sight to the chosen target. Carnosaur roared in rage as some of the elven arrows actually managed to pierce his thick hide. But it didn't slow down its march.

On the East Dragon Princes cleared the path to the enemy flank with a charge against Lizardmen skirmishers who tried to slow down elven knights. In a way they succeeded as some of the skinks fled the combat and overenthusiastic Dragon Princes pursued and temporarily moved out of the battle field.

At the same time Ravers manoeuvred around another group of skinks and tried to tempt Stegadon to charge them.

Lizardmen - Turn 2

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Charge of the Carnosaurus!

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Noble sacrifice of the Bladelord

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Reckless assault?

Seeing the exposed flank of the Swordmasters regiment, Scar Veteran pointed at them and his mount didn't need any further encouragements. However, lone figure stepped out from among the warriors of Hoeth and dared to call a challenge. Scar Veteran easily deflected the blows and destroyed his adversary. But was that really a victory?

On the West skinks chose another target and this time it was elven fast cavalry. Lack of good armour was their bane and all but one rider died. The lone survivor had to withdraw if he wanted to keep his precious life. Another unit of fast cavalry was also shot at, this time by skinks from the top of the howdah on the Stegadon's back. But despite heavy casualties they didn't retreat.

Outcasts - Turn 3

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Elves set up traps

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Loremaster leads the counter charge

Fast, light units move in to block, redirect and bait enemy into traps. At the same time the shooters pick the Saurus unit as a new target and a few hulking warriors falls down.

Loremaster leads his bodyguards to aid nearby Swordmasters in the attack against Scar Veteran and his mount. Elves managed to slay Carnosaurus before it started a bloody rampage but the Scar Veteran proved to be too tough and he also refused to give ground.

Lizardmen - Turn 3

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Lizardmen start pulling back

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Scar Veteran holds the line all by himself!

Sensing the trap the Slann orders his units to pull back. He didn't want to expose his Saurus to the charges of small elven units from multiple directions. Instead, he used magic and ordered skinks to hunt down elven light troops but these were not eliminated yet.

Scar Veteran still refused to die and to give ground, keeping two elven units busy.

Edit: It seems I forgot to show damage the Sea Guard too due to probably some fireball. The unit also fled because of that, apologies for the confusion.

Outcasts - Turn 4

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Elves begin their advance

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Charge of the Dragon Princes!

Combined effort of the Swordmasters and White Lions finally brings the expected results and Scar Veteran is destroyed. That opens the path for the elven units and they begin their advance towards withdrawing enemy.

Dragon Princes attacked the Stegadon but the beast was hard to wound and it fought back. The knights still won the combat but stubborn beast didn't want to flee.

Lizardmen - Turn 4

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Lizardmen consolidate their positions

With the elven assault teams still relatively far away, the Lizardmen army didn't move, consolidating their defensive positions. Stegadon tried to impale the elven knights with its impressive horns but they were too nimble for that. The combat continued!

Outcasts - Turn 5

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High Elves keep pressing forward

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Outcasts muster their units for the last charge

With the enemy refusing to fight, High Elves keep pressing forward. Swordmasters line up for the charge and Lions cross the river to participate in the combat too. Great eagle and brave survivor of the ellyrian reavers squadron keep distracting enemy infantry.

The battle between Dragon Princes and the Stegadon is still unresolved.

Lizardmen - Turn 5

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Lizardmen - unmovable in their defence

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Waiting patiently for Elves to attack

Slann, confident in his warriors skills, devoted his time to some important meditations, healing the Stegadon while doing so. Only skinks moved bravely forward, hoping to kill some more elves with their poisonous missiles.

Outcasts - Turn 6

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Elves charge ...

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... and bloody combat erupts!

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Lizardmen still hold!

All available units charge the Lizardmen. Larry the Loremaster leads his Swordmasters to fight the Ancient Stegadon but are unable to finish off the beast that, although wounded badly, stomps many elves to death!

At the same time, Bob the BSB together with second group of Swordmasters as well as Lions charge Saurus warriors. Many of the hulking Lizardmen fell to great axes and great swords but their counter attack is no less vicious. Casualties on both sides are horrendous. Saurus Warriors are hard pressed but they are steadfast and hold.

Lizardmen - Turn 6

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Last combats!

Both armies or whatever was left of them, tried to push one more time. Elves finally managed to kill the Stegadon but the Saurus warriors proved to be too stubborn to give ground. With last bloody blows not bringing more significant result, both armies disengaged and moved away to lick their wounds.

High Elves paid bloody price for that hard won small victory.

After-battle thoughts

That was certainly one bloody battle! I am glad I managed to get that last combat but simply could not inflict enough casualties on Saurus Warriors to break their steadfast. In the first combat I needed one more casualty to be inflicted and one less wound to suffer to do so. As you can see it was very close!

I was lucky with that first charge of Dragon Princes and I was ok with the exchange. While I lost powerful unit I also got rid of the dangerous ripperdactyls with the skink chief and got small skink unit as a bonus.

I made a mistake with the Swordmasters, exposing the flank to the charge but looking at it again I think I might use that to tempt opponents to commit their units for such charges if I have a good counter charge ready. It played nicely to my advantage as I could challenge the enemy character, prevent deadly t-stomps and counter to kill his mount later on. It took quite a time to kill him though.

That last combat showed something I need to take into account in my games. When the enemy withdraws the infantry may be too slow to get them early enough so that I am in position to attack from the flanks. Frontal assault against Saurus is not the best idea ever as it was clearly shown. It was worth trying for sure but it was very risky as well as my units are not good at war of attrition. The good thing was that if that combat happened earlier, I would have had these regiments that defeated the Stegadon ready to help out.

That poses an interesting dilemma, to sit at the back and try to weaken the enemy with arrows and magic but to risk that the earned points will be low? Or to move forward aggressively but risk confrontation with the enemy at better disposal?

I also think I could have done better with the deployment. I think I should have moved shooting units more towards the right flank and approach the enemy from centre and left. That would have forced the enemy infantry to go through the river and allow shooters to pick better targets. It may have allowed for a more aggressive approach too.

In any case, a 12-8 victory was still good for me!

Thanks for reading!

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High Elves MSU - Observations

Rabidnid wrote:
Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:25 pm 
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Re casualty removal:

It can be a tricky thing. Look page 61. There is nothing in the faq and the only other info we know is that like in shooting casualties are removed like shooting... from the back rank and then evenly from both sides if there is only 1 rank. Basically, if a unit gets stranded you shift. If neither unit can shift because of stuff being in the way or engaged with a unit that blocks the shift the stranded unit is stuck there without reform or overrun. A bit annoying in a 2v1 fight and you have a unit in the front and the flank, and you end up reducing his unit down to 1 or 2 models and your flanking unit cant nudge in OR reform because your front unit is in the way (but instead have to get pushed 1 inch away from your own unit). This is in contrast to 7th edition where models were removed to keep as many units in combat as possible so instead of removing the last rank from both sides like it is now you had to remove from the unengaged flank to keep both units in contact.

I dont think it was done correctly in this game. If the lions are out of combat they are out. So in woc turn 3 they shouldn't have been in combat, and not nudged back in at the end of combat on HE turn 2. After SC removes the model touching the WL, the WL should've been pushed 1 inch away from the dp/crushers due to the 1 inch rule in a manner directly away from them so the unit is nudged the least possible distance to get the 1 inch.

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And Grombrindal said "10 from the back, yeah?"


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:34 pm 
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(ofc if the unit is stranded due to the opponent getting wiped out you get the combat reform from the "wipeout rule", but otherwise not)

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And Grombrindal said "10 from the back, yeah?"


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:02 pm 
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Thanks LA!

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High Elves MSU - Observations

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Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?


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