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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:14 am 
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rusty wrote:
Curu Olannon wrote:
So - what would you like me to elaborate about with regards to playing with a Star Dragon? ;)


How to kill the damn chicken!

Or at the very least, how to neutralize it.

Regards, frustrated footslogger.


For WE if you're lucky stick a Treemen with Annoyance of Netling to the chicken.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:23 am 
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Apologies for my late reply but thanks for the report Curu. I winced at the Tomb King list to be honest when I saw two Tomb Guard blocks with no royalty to support them. What a shame.

I also found it a bit odd your opponent wasn't targetting your eagles with his archers. Its critical for the Tomb Kings (more so than any other army because of their crap movement) to deal with the enemy support units ASAP.

I think the valuable lesson for the TK player is to never bunker both casters in the same unit. Minimises any damage from miscasts but also avoids losing everything in one combat.

His chariots were an absolute waste in this game which is a shame because they're the one thing that can smash through High Elves before ASF kicks in and yield some good casualties.

Great game Curu and it was good to see a TK army that was threatening a HE one. TK will always struggle against big nasties especially when a tooled out character is driving them.

Light magic is truly the way to go with Tomb Kings, cheap spells, good area of effects and it really compliments the army so well. I've really found lately using 2 x level 4's backed up with a Hierotitan + Casket is the best build, just throw 2D6 at the cheap spells and your opponent simply can't stop them all.

In regards to the army build a Necrotect + Tomb King/Prince is fantastic bunkered in with Tomb guard however its a lot of points and with an army like yours I'm confident you could delay/ignore it until you've dealt with every other element of the army. Don't get me wrong, I've seen them work but I don't have any experience with it.

I don't think two Tomb Guard units is optimal, expensive and ideally need a 100+ point character in them to get the most from them.

I think sphinxes work best in pairs, there is no doubting that. I have to have a shameless plug here and ask Strange to check out my latest battle report using a build I've only played once but really enjoyed the results. Not saying at all it's optimal or successful however I feel I'm on the right track to making a build that's competitive and fun.

Thanks for taking the time for the battle report Curu, they're always a great read.

Good luck against the Wood Elves!

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:36 am 
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Curu I have never fielded your list or even a dragon in many years probably 6th ed in a friendly game but I am considering using your list at a local club tournament in 2 weeks. Currently I am limited to 20 painted white lions and I am curious how your list might play with only 20 white lions dropping command and skeinsilver on the 14 swordmasters and adding a second unit of 10 swordmasters for 2500 total.

How pivotal is skeinsilver in your games? While I have played 20 white lions and 2 units of 14 swordmasters with success in the past it was a completely different army without the dragon and eagle hero. Again my main issue is just painted minis on hand and not an issue with your current list and I am curious if you think those changes with would mess your normal synergy.

Sign ups include 4 potential OK opponents , and 1 Chaos Dwarf. No empire and no dwarfs that I really need to play cannon meta with. Ogres are also comped at 1 Ironblaster so thought I might have some fun with a dragon.

Curu and others please chime in.

Thanks


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:22 am 
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Hey !

I'd just say that I F5 your army blog in my browser everyday I'm sad because nothing appears !
I switched to your list, but didn't have the eagles for the moment, and I really understand how there are useful because I miss them so much .... where did you get yours ? GW ? Gamezone ?
I also have my dragon painted without wings (these are painted too) because I'd like to magnetize them but I don't know how I can do that.
Can you help me ?

Thank you, your army blog is really a source of inspiration.

:D


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:22 pm 
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Hey guys, sorry about the delayed response! It's been a busy Easter holiday with lots of family stuff etc.

Good news is, I'm back. Bad news is, I haven't painted anything yet - which means I have like 2-3 days to finish a LOT of models... Anyways, let's take a look at your replies:

@rusty - will look into this, as it's as critical to this list's success as anything else (goes both ways, obviously)!

@Tiralya - sorry but the report is still not up... I'll try and write it up tonight!

@pk-ng - indeed Wood Elves have a nice trick here! More on this later ;)

@Jimmy - thanks for the TK input! In particular, I think your points about casters (not in the same bunker etc) are extremely important.

@msu117 - with only 20 Lions I would definitely get more Swordmasters. This does mean however that you have to play it differently - you rely on combined charges more than 2 powerhouses hitting home. As such, I think this kind of list might be better with a BSB on foot.

Skeinsliver has really been worth its weight in gold, in my opinion. I might be a little biased here but those extra few % when rolling for first turn (often critical) just seem to be needed with this kind of list.

With OK being capped at 1 'blaster it might not be that bad. Considering no Empire and no Dwarfs it should be a good field :)

I hope this wasn't too late for you!

@pimousse771 - yeah, sorry about the hiatus! I don't use Eagles, I use some Drake models from GW (old stuff).

As for magnetizing the Dragon wings - go a few pages back and there are some pictures and explanations :)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:35 pm 
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@pk-ng Good luck catching a flyer with a M5" groundpounder. Then again, miracles do happen. Wait for the report :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:03 pm 
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The long awaited practice game, between rusty’s Wood Elves and my Dragonlord. We played using ETC 2nd draft rules and tried to pace ourselves in preparation for the coming tournament.

:: Noble Beasts and Proud Elves ::

:: Pre-battle thoughts & deployment::

I knew that my ranged firepower was no-where near his, additionally he has a much more durable centre to play around. Furthermore, he gets stronger the closer I get. I knew I had to defeat one or two key units fast while keeping the pressure up on his support units. The problem was that my infantry would be so crucial here, yet so easy for him to focus on taking down.

Magic saw me get Curse and Shield, while he got a perfect selection from Beasts: Wyssan’s, Spear, +3A, +3S and Curse of Anraheir.

Deployment was fine, I got to place the Lions in a flexible position while everything kept out of his max range, even if he’d decide to move up.

Image

I won the roll for first turn and opted to take it.

:: High Elves Turn 1 ::

Due to the new LoS ETC rules, I could park my flyers behind the impassables. I chose the Eastern one and hid my main flying units here, while the remaining took care to stay out of 34” from the Beastsweaver.

Magic is 6v5 and I start with 2D6 curse on Dryads, hoping to draw his DD. He didn’t fall for it though but somehow I still got Drain through. In hindsight I should’ve gone for 3+3D6 rather than 2+2 as the Curse is almost useless here. No reason to think my opponent a fool!

Shooting does nothing: my big Archers fail to penetrate the armour of the forest spirits and so cannot bring their flaming arrows to bear.

Image

:: Wood Elves Turn 1 ::

He boxes into a corner while getting in range of my Western flank.

Magic is 7v6 and he gets Wyssan’s on his Treekin, which I let through to dispel Curse.

Shooting is way worse though as my Western unit of 15 Archers are reduced to 2(!), who luckily pass their panic test. At least he wasn’t shooting my Lions…

Image

:: High Elves Turn 2 ::

I decide to use my Lions in a central position and move them up accordingly, backed by flyers and flanked by Swordmasters. The idea was to crush his centre before the last unit of Treekin could interfere.

Magic is 3v3 and he dispels Shield on the Lions.

Shooting again does nothing as I fail to produce any 6’s.

Image

:: Wood Elves Turn 2 ::

He moves up in defensive position, awaiting my onslaught.

Magic is 5v4 and he tries to Spear Saerith but I dispel it with a good roll. Shooting is fairly insignificant.

Image

:: High Elves Turn 3 ::

I charge Saerith into the Treeman while the Lions engage the blocking Eagle. The idea is to free reform the Lions after combat to block the Ancient’s path to Saerith.

Magic is big – 10v6! I’m hoping to get the most out of this and start with 3D6 Curse on his Ancient, hoping to get the crucial arrow through. However, I cast with two 6’s and lose both my levels. To add insult to injury, a total of 5 Archer wounds are saved (!) by the Ancient (2 on the 5+ ward...).

The Lions easily kill the Eagle and reform to block for Saerith .Saerith and Faeria only deal 1W to the Treeman while Faeria takes 1W in return.

Image

:: Wood Elves Turn 3 ::

Surprisingly, no charges. He moves back and opts to pound me some more first.

Magic is 11v7 and this is good for me as with ETC there’s a max of 5 dice to cast. However, he promptly casts Amber Spear with IF and kills Naenor. I contain the rest of his phase, but the damage is done.

Lions lose a handful to shooting and it’s on to combat.

I declare Loec with Saerith and between him and Faeria, I score 7W. He saves 4 of these, despite the forced re-rolls.

Image

:: High Elves Turn 4 ::

As it turns out his blocking Eagle is placed poorly – it has my Lions in its flank. I charge it and he flees, I redirect into the Treekin. My Eagles charge his Archers to relieve my infantry of some stress.

Magic is void and again my shooting fails to wound his Ancient. This is getting really annoying.

Combat sees the Lions deal a massive 16W to the Treekin and the last one standing flees. Again I reform the Lions to protect my Prince. Faeria and Saerith finally kills the Treeman but the Star Dragon is left on only 2W. Between Loec and the higher-initiative Prince, this is a poor fight for me. My Eagles beat his Archers.

Image

:: Wood Elves Turn 4 ::

Again no charges, and his Treekin keeps running (needing insane courage, it ran off the board eventually).

Magic is 3v4 and I dispel Amber Spear on a roll of 15 vs his 14! His shooting reduces the Lions to 12-13 remaining.

My Eagles again beat his Archers and I reform to face his lone Spellcaster.

Image

:: High Elves Turn 5 ::

One Eagle charges his wizard, which elects to flee. I move my Swords around to flank his Treekin, while my 2 sacrifical units move up to ensure they can’t get out of harm’s way. The Lions reform to face the Ancient, tempting him to charge. I know I can probably hold him for 2-3 rounds of combat, and I need the rest of my units free.

Shooting sees my Archers finally learn to shoot as they kill his wizard, despite of having hard cover, moving and long range!

Image

:: Wood Elves Turn 5 ::

His Treeman charge my Lions and I fail my terror test and flee. He promptly catches me and nets a nice bag of VP’s. The Treekin charge my Spears, which hold.

Shooting does nothing and it’s on to combat: his Treekin kill the Spears and reform to face the Swordmasters.

Image

:: High Elves Turn 6 ::

The Swordmasters need a 3+ while the flaming Archers need a 6+ to reach his Treekin. I realize my horrible error as Saerith is facing the centre instead of the East so he cannot contribute to the crucial fight. So poor on my part! Regardless, he charges the BSB which flees and I fail to catch him. The Archers fail to make their 6+ charge and my Swords are left alone, face-to-face with the Treekin. After a poor start (I only manage 3-4W) I know I’m in poor shape and true to this, he wins big and I flee with but a handful. He opts to reform and face my Archers.

Image

:: Wood Elves Turn 6 ::

Eagle charges Swordmasters, I flee but he catches me. Treekin charges Archers, S&S does nothing. His BSB rallies.
Shooting sees him kill the Eagles and it’s on to the combat…
He deals a lot of wounds and I fail to do much back, but regardless I pass my Steadfast test and the game is over!

Image

:: Victory Points ::

Counting up carefully I have enough for an 11-9 victory, but then we deduct the 10% because he’s Wood Elves and the game is a draw (roughly 120 points in my favour)!

:: Evaluation ::

The speed of the game hurt me, but I’d better have it now rather than later. I find that I need to go with my gut instinct more as there’s no time for my otherwise time-consuming analysis – by know I have enough experience with the list to have a good feeling of how it plays anyways! The major mistakes on my part here was not charging the Ancient T4 and placing Saerith to face centre, not East, T5. One can discuss whether trying to lock the centre and obliterate the West would’ve been optimal, but I considered this a big risk as it would open me up to more shooting and put pressure on his Wizard too late. Also, I think I maybe should’ve given him the first turn as I had a feeling the last turn could be crucial here and he wouldn’t be in range of anything interesting on T1 if he went first anyways!

C&C welcome as always. This report is a little so-so as far as accuracy is concerned, solely due to the fact that it was played 2 weeks ago. My apologies for this delay, but I hope you found it worth the read still :)

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Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

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Last edited by Curu Olannon on Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:54 am 
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I don't find Rusty's list anywhere handy. Would you add it into the report post?

I know HE archers are bad, but yours seem to have been impressively bad here. Zero wounds in multiple shooting phases. How did they get so completely obliterated on Wood Elf turn 1? Nothing has a clear shot at that western unit, so how did 13 die?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:42 am 
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Hey Curu!

Thanks again for another great report. I was wondering when we'd get to see those wood elves again rusty!

Going to take a page from dabber's book and comment as I go though:

- Deployment looks good to me. Only thing I'll say is that I would have been looking to use that forest as cover for my firing base. -1 to hit makes a huge difference in a mexican standoff, and it looks like you can get a pretty clear view of some of his juicy targets - namely the flammables. This would ideally let your curse be on one of those guys on turn 1 and the multi-wounds pumping out.

By my count you'd at least know where his firing base was going by the time you dropped Eagle --> Eagle --> Eagle --> Spears --> Archers, and I'm thinking that's enough information to assume that he's going to refuse that flank (particularly versus your list, where you wouldn't want to leave your firing base exposed).

- HE T1 - Good positioning on the fliers, but the archers have to move, rendering your first shooting phase pretty benign. I think the flaming archers in the forest and curse on the treeman would have been mint here, with every wound that slips through doubling. Odds are you should get 2 wounds (one multiplied into two), and with a bit of luck you can really give him something to think about turn 1. Shooting the dryads was a bit of a stretch. Long range, skirmish and move is pretty rough, even with rerolls.

- WE T1 - Rusty, I'm guessing that round of shooting death was the hail of doom arrow? Nice touch :P. Having said that, I am still amazed at how many times I see people shooting our core over our specials. I would have definitely popped all of those shots on the swordmasters. Curu doesn't really have many elite infantry to spare, so I'm pretty confident he'll agree with me that he'd much rather you shoot the archers than the specials!

- HE T2 - This is a tough turn. He's really forcing your hand here. You don't want to approach from the east with your fliers , because he'll get a free unimpeded close range round with his firing base. That's a tough pill to swallow, even with a dragon. I think you made the right call by pulling back with everything but a couple distractionary units. I also think you made the right call by assaulting the middle. However, by putting the Prince behind the lions, you're really limiting the charge angles that you can approach from. I think positioning to the south west of the eastern rock, facing westward would have opened up some opportunities for him to support the infantry better in the next turn.

I'm also curious about the angling of the swordmasters; it looks like a bit more of a wheel towards the middle would have opened up a whole lot of charge arcs.

Shooting - Kill that chicken! See Turn 3.

WE T2 - Seems to me like the noble had a great opportunity here to get into the backfield and wreak havok on those archers/spears by threatening flanks. Was he basically just a hail of doom missile?

Seems like only yesterday we were talking about Eagles in a Wood Elf list - glad to see you putting them to good use!

HE T3 - So this is the turn where I think the most important stuff happened. I hope this is going to make sense, because it's all going to be an imaginary picture that I'm going to describe. You know what, screw it, photoshop time:

Image

So in my scenario, you've got plenty of options this turn. If his chicken flies up, you've got the possibility of the swords to deal with it, while your Lions can catch a corner of that treeman, forcing it to wheel in. Then depending on the choices rusty makes, you can then combo with either the Dragon on the White Lion's Treeman, or you can combo the ancient with both fliers. Seems to me no matter how you cut it, you've got a *ton* of offence you can bring to bear with things positioned like this.

I think you were smart here saving the breath for the treekin though. Wounding on 6's with a 4+/5++ is a far cry from wounding on 5's with a 5+/5++, when you factor flaming hits into the mix.

WE T3 - Pretty standard turn, Treeman backs off, not wanting to mess with the lions. Better to redirect them; unfortunate about the eagle placement.

What are the dryads doing here? Seems like the door is wide open to swoop in on Olannon in his bunker.

HE T4 - Hate seeing those swordmasters so ineffective - maybe they could have started hooking back during this turn? Would have stalled the Treekin advance with the Dragon also nearby.

The rest of the game seems pretty straightforward. Do ETC rules allow half points for units under 50% or monsters/characters with wounds under 50%? The tourney I played in did, but I suspect not from your calculations.

A great game, and congrats to both of you on a successful test match! This really could have been anyone's game right up to the bitter end. I love close games like this one - fun to play and read.

D

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:06 pm 
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@dabber - my bad, I will include it later today! Roughly like this: 40 archers, 8 dryads, 5 Treekin, 6 Treekin, 1 Treeman, 1 Ancient (annoyance, +1DD), Beastsweaver (scroll), BSB (flying on Eagle, 3+ ward vs all non-magical).

@Brewmaster_D - thanks for a thorough analysis! I will answer you more in-depth later, for now I'm short on time:

I started painting the rest of my force and as I put it together, I realize just how much I have to do:
- 31 Archers
- 8 Spearelves
- 7 White Lions
- 3 Drakes
- 4 * 50x50mm custom bases to be painted
- 6 Archers to be glued
- BSB to be mounted dynamically (i.e. so I can remove him)
- Fix 3 movement trays (some glue + paint + terrain)

I pretty much have all of today and all of tomorrow to paint, so that's roughly all I'll be doing save for some breaks to eat and visit forums. Basically I have to ensure they all have basic colours and basing first, and then (if I have time) I'll go to details. I have no idea how long this'll take me!

Thus far, I've done the following:
- based all Archers black, red, scorched brown, tin bitz (luckily, I've done all the skin previously)
- based all Drakes black
- based the Spears black, red, elf flesh
The Lions are already basecoated with almost every colour, so strictly speaking I don't have to do anything here

With regards to the tournament I've decided to only take pictures. Due to other members' experiences I think it's better to focus on the gaming and leave the note-taking for later :)

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Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:34 pm 
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Happy painting, Curu! :P See you at the tournament!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:58 pm 
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Ye gads, you have a lot of work ahead of you, even if you just get three colours on there and basing, good luck Curu.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:31 pm 
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WE list:
* Spellweaver (275pts)
Dispel Scroll (25pts), Lore of Beasts, Wizard level 4 (35pts)

* Treeman Ancient (375pts)
A Cluster of Radiants ancient ja brancwraith (25pts), An Annoyance of Netlings (25pts)

* Noble (192pts)
Battle Standard Bearer (15pts)
Eagle(50pts)
Potion of foolhardiness(5pts)
Amaranthine Brooch(35pts)
Dragonhelm (10pts)

8x Dryads (96pts)

* Glade Guard (184pts)
Banner of Eternal Flame (10pts), 13x Glade Guard (156pts), Musician (6pts), Standard Bearer (12pts)

10x Glade Guard (120pts), Musician (6pts)

10x Glade Guard (120pts), Musician (6pts)

10x Glade Guard (120pts), Musician (6pts)

5x Tree Kin (325pts)

6x Tree Kin (390pts)

* Great Eagles (50pts)

* Great Eagles (50pts)

* Treeman (285pts)

I'll post some comments later.
EDIT: Five treekin is 325, not 285. Total is still 2600.
EDIT 2: 13 GG, not 15.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:39 pm 
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@Chayal - thanks! Looking forward to playing as well ;)

@Tiralya - Hopefully it'll be semi-decent. I'm sure I'll get the requirements done but it would be nice to score some points as well on the painting side of things!

@rusty - how can 5 Treekin cost 285 while 6 Treekin cost 390? I would double-check my points if I were you before the tournament.

Painting's coming along decent. Top priority is to get all the base colours neatly on, if I finish that I'll start the highlights. Washes and inks go a long way here, unfortunately a lot of my colours can properly utilize that technique due to lack of washes / other methods used throughout the army.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:21 pm 
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Brewmaster_D wrote:
Hey Curu!

Thanks again for another great report. I was wondering when we'd get to see those wood elves again rusty!

Going to take a page from dabber's book and comment as I go though:

- Deployment looks good to me. Only thing I'll say is that I would have been looking to use that forest as cover for my firing base. -1 to hit makes a huge difference in a mexican standoff, and it looks like you can get a pretty clear view of some of his juicy targets - namely the flammables. This would ideally let your curse be on one of those guys on turn 1 and the multi-wounds pumping out.


The thing with this game is that I don't mind him killing off my firing base. I couldn't fit both the Archers and the Swordmasters into the woods, and as long as he's not killing my elite infantry it's fine really. M5 just doesn't cut it for a long flanking move so I had to put the Swords in the woods.

Brewmaster_D wrote:
By my count you'd at least know where his firing base was going by the time you dropped Eagle --> Eagle --> Eagle --> Spears --> Archers, and I'm thinking that's enough information to assume that he's going to refuse that flank (particularly versus your list, where you wouldn't want to leave your firing base exposed).


Yes, however Wood Elves are very mobile and it's easy for him to just shuffle a bit and get good lines of sight anyways. As such, even though I know where the base is, there isn't a lot I can do about it: he has superior firepower and I cannot risk facing The Amber Spear for X turns. As such, I have to approach head-on and try and force him to target the least important units.

Brewmaster_D wrote:
- HE T1 - Good positioning on the fliers, but the archers have to move, rendering your first shooting phase pretty benign. I think the flaming archers in the forest and curse on the treeman would have been mint here, with every wound that slips through doubling. Odds are you should get 2 wounds (one multiplied into two), and with a bit of luck you can really give him something to think about turn 1. Shooting the dryads was a bit of a stretch. Long range, skirmish and move is pretty rough, even with rerolls.


I don't think I was in range of the Treeman, regardless of what I had done. I do believe it would've been better to give him T1 here.

Brewmaster_D wrote:
- WE T1 - Rusty, I'm guessing that round of shooting death was the hail of doom arrow? Nice touch :P. Having said that, I am still amazed at how many times I see people shooting our core over our specials. I would have definitely popped all of those shots on the swordmasters. Curu doesn't really have many elite infantry to spare, so I'm pretty confident he'll agree with me that he'd much rather you shoot the archers than the specials!


Nah he didn't have that, however he had 30-40 with clear LoS and rolled a bit above average. The Swordmasters would've been impossible to target properly, perhaps the diagrams are a bit off here.

Brewmaster_D wrote:
- HE T2 - This is a tough turn. He's really forcing your hand here. You don't want to approach from the east with your fliers , because he'll get a free unimpeded close range round with his firing base. That's a tough pill to swallow, even with a dragon. I think you made the right call by pulling back with everything but a couple distractionary units. I also think you made the right call by assaulting the middle. However, by putting the Prince behind the lions, you're really limiting the charge angles that you can approach from. I think positioning to the south west of the eastern rock, facing westward would have opened up some opportunities for him to support the infantry better in the next turn.

I'm also curious about the angling of the swordmasters; it looks like a bit more of a wheel towards the middle would have opened up a whole lot of charge arcs.


I agree that the Prince was misplaced. I would have to risk that Spear regardless, so may as well march him into the center with lots of lucrative targets.

As for the Swordmasters, it was pretty tight (more so than the diagrams show) so the angle was pretty much forced.

Shooting - Kill that chicken! See Turn 3.

Brewmaster_D wrote:
WE T2 - Seems to me like the noble had a great opportunity here to get into the backfield and wreak havok on those archers/spears by threatening flanks. Was he basically just a hail of doom missile?

Seems like only yesterday we were talking about Eagles in a Wood Elf list - glad to see you putting them to good use!


The Noble would be in a very risk position since it was hard / impossible to get proper cover. Even with a 3+ ward, it's hardly a good decision to leave him against 30+ Archers. Perhaps more importantly, losing the re-roll in the middle can be devastating.

I agree that rusty's learned to use the Eagles well. I believe my WL charge where he had misjudged the angles will be critical for his train of thought this weekend - he's unlikely to make the same mistake again! They're also perfect for this list, once anything gets close the hurt quickly adds up between Strangleroots and S4 arrows: delaying stuff even more is very effective.

Brewmaster_D wrote:

HE T3 - So this is the turn where I think the most important stuff happened. I hope this is going to make sense, because it's all going to be an imaginary picture that I'm going to describe. You know what, screw it, photoshop time:

Image

So in my scenario, you've got plenty of options this turn. If his chicken flies up, you've got the possibility of the swords to deal with it, while your Lions can catch a corner of that treeman, forcing it to wheel in. Then depending on the choices rusty makes, you can then combo with either the Dragon on the White Lion's Treeman, or you can combo the ancient with both fliers. Seems to me no matter how you cut it, you've got a *ton* of offence you can bring to bear with things positioned like this.

I think you were smart here saving the breath for the treekin though. Wounding on 6's with a 4+/5++ is a far cry from wounding on 5's with a 5+/5++, when you factor flaming hits into the mix.


I agree mostly, though combo-charging the Ancient is a bad idea due to Annoyance. Despite his low movement, the compact nature of rusty's army means he covered a lot of non-dragon ground.

Brewmaster_D wrote:
WE T3 - Pretty standard turn, Treeman backs off, not wanting to mess with the lions. Better to redirect them; unfortunate about the eagle placement.

What are the dryads doing here? Seems like the door is wide open to swoop in on Olannon in his bunker.


The Dryads advanced, though they took a long wheel because Naenor was positioned to cover a direct advance.

Brewmaster_D wrote:
HE T4 - Hate seeing those swordmasters so ineffective - maybe they could have started hooking back during this turn? Would have stalled the Treekin advance with the Dragon also nearby.


I agree, I didn't play them very well this game. This is mostly why I was wondering if sending the Lions West would've been better. I have to bear in mind that my frontage is getting pretty big now, impassable features can be a pain for me (despite my mobility) when I fight an army like this.

Brewmaster_D wrote:
The rest of the game seems pretty straightforward. Do ETC rules allow half points for units under 50% or monsters/characters with wounds under 50%? The tourney I played in did, but I suspect not from your calculations.

A great game, and congrats to both of you on a successful test match! This really could have been anyone's game right up to the bitter end. I love close games like this one - fun to play and read.

D


ETC only awards 50% VP for units under 25% models or fleeing. It indeed could've swung both ways, but it should've been a clear win for me as this is one of rusty's worst matchups.

The painting's coming along ok. I won't finish everything (by far) but at least base colors + basing will be completed. The painting scores count for 20 points while the playing counts for 100 so as long as I'm above 10 for painting it shouldn't matter too much.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:09 pm 
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At 23.30 PM I finished the last stroke of paint. I didn't nearly finish everything, but at least it's tabletop standard and hopefully the finished stuff will outshine the not-fully-completed units. I've printed a lot of copies of my list for tomorrow and I will pack my stuff in a minute. First though, I thought I'd let you all see what the army looks like now that everything is at least partially completed (apologies for the poor quality, my girlfriend just got a new DSLR so I'll set up some nice shots when I get back home).

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:16 am 
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Looks pretty good for a rush job, good luck Curu!

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:29 pm 
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Day 1 complete. I thought I´d give you a short update with regards to the status and tournament so far:
Rusty played with a lot of these people last year, so he gave me a head´s up on some of the best players. The first round was completely random (no seeding from previous tournaments or anything) and I managed to draw one of the tournament´s very best players (a Norwegian ETC player who´s been part of the team for years). Rusty just laughed out hard when this draw was called out, and I didn´t know what to expect... Adding insult to injury, this guy was playing Chaos Dwarfs (the only one in the tournament), with lots of strong counters to my list. Now, I don´t want to spoil anything before the reports come up, but needless to say this was not an optimal first round, as opposed to Rusty who found himself playing someone who didn´t even know his own army´s rules.

2nd round was a lot better, I faced a relatively weak Vampire Counts army. Deployment was perfect and I got off to the kind of start I wanted. However, the new VC are more than potent enough so it wasn´t a walk in the park!

My 3rd and last round of the day saw me face another Norwegian ETC player, this time playing Dwarfs. Ok so this tournament was full of people with Tomb Kings (!), Wood Elves (!!) and the player skill was very varied. Anyways, the game turned out to be highly interesting!

My note-taking has been pretty good. I play very fast and always finish ahead of time. All 3 games have been against very sporting opponents and it´s been a great time so far. The guy currently in the lead is playing Ogres (with 3x 20-0 games today) and he has the cookie-cutter Ogre list (2x4 Mournfang, Gutstar, Sabretusks, Ironblaster++). There are 2 games tomorrow and I don´t know what I´ll face, however an estimated guess puts the lists I can face roughly as follows:
- Firestorm Bloodthirster Daemons
- Dark Elves (varied)
- Empire (standard)
- Wood Elves (forest spirit heavy)
- Ogre

I have no idea when the reports will be up but I just wanted to share the progress so far ;) Stay tuned for more!

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:33 pm 
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Day 2 complete and the tournament is over! Again, a short status update:

I won't spoil much with regards to results yet, but I will say that after a fantastic last 2 games, rusty took home the first place! His matchups were as follows:
G1 - TK. Relatively unexperienced player, took a lot of time to clarify stuff. Finished 12-8, a disappointing result
G2 - OnG. Also a fresh-ish player, but a nice guy indeed! Finished 20-0
G3 - Empire. Fairly strong player, but nothing exceptional. I think this was around 17-3 to 20-0 as well
G4 - Daemons with a Firestorm Blade Bloodthirster. Rusty severely out-deployed and out-played him, finishing 18-2 or something like that. A very strong result bearing the matchup in mind!
G5 - Ogres. This player had been on table 1 from the very beginning, with a streak of 20-0's and 18-2's. You get the picture. Rusty adopted a shadow boxing strategy in which he moved up to a threatening range and then slowly backed down, dealing tons of damage thrrough shooting and Beasts in the process before counter-charging with forest spirits to break the Ogres. The game ended 15-5!

So, onto my own experiences since yesterday. I started off playing against Vampire Counts again. This time, my opponent had a really strong Black Knight bus with a tooled up S7 ASF Vampire Lord at its head. The game reminded me a lot of chess, the first 3 turns were literally nothing but trying to gain the slighest advantage to capitalize upon. I find that playing like this against Vampire Counts is extremely hard if you want to rack up the points - it's simply so hard to really kill your way through stuff quick enough!

The last game of the tournament, I was hoping for an army I could do well against. I knew that the armies around my pairing level were Dark Elves, Daemons, Empire and High Elves, along with Dwarfs and Vampire Counts. I was really hoping for Dark Elves since I believe my list can completely crush them under the ETC rules - there really isn't anything they can take which seriously threatens me! Alas, it was not to be as I got Vampire Counts yet again. This list featured a Gravestar with an emphasis on magic, sporting 3 (!) bound spells and 3 wizards. The start of the game reminded me very much of my former one against the bus, however I was hoping that my mobility could be key here (the bus had 2 flying characters which effectively neutralized my normal advantages).

I'm not sure if I'll get the first report up tonight, but I'll start writing now. Unfortunately, I lost the notes for this one so I'll have to base it on my memory and the pictures on my tablet. I think I remember most of the vital details though, because it was the best game I've had in a very long time!

Oh and by the way, how do you think I did overall? We were just shy of 50 participants and I'm curious to see what you think this list is capable of in such a setting :)

Regards,
~Olannon

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:52 pm 
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Trying to guess how you did is pretty difficult. As a player you seem to make very few mistakes and therefore would do pretty well. However, there are some really strong counters to your list (double Ironblasters anyone?) so it comes down to matchups in the end and the quality of the other players around. From your post you said there was a mix of people but reading between the lines it seems as though you might have met a couple of decent players towards the end. I'm going to put you somewhere near 10th overall.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:59 pm 
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Here's my prediction: Top 10, without a doubt, based on your past performance versus the #1 player ;)

Round 1 I'm guessing was a loss, based on the silly things I've heard about Chaos Dwarves, and your brief synopsis doesn't sound overly optimisitic
Round 2 I'm guessing a win, newer players usually aren't good at dealing with mobile threats like in your list
Round 3 This one is a tough one - You've got a good track record vs. Dwarves, but there is always the risk that their artillery sets you back majorly turn 1. I'm going to guess draw here, based on no actual facts and just a gut feeling.
Round 4 - I'm guessing win here - I don't think knight busses pair up particularly well vs. White Lions and Dragons.
Round 5 - Magic spam vamps, hmm this one is a toughie. I'm guessing he'll have taken the mortis engine as well, which is definitely vulnerable to your Dragon. I'm going to guess win, but not a 20-0 victory. Again, for no other reason than it feels right.

lol, there you have it, my completely uninformed and subjective guess on what happened!

D

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:32 pm 
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Curu Olannon presents:


:: 2D6 Crusade - Game #1 - Chaos Dwarfs - 0/0 points before pairing ::

Having stayed up until 11.30 PM painting non-stop for roughly the entire day, I was anxious to see what these painted miniatures could actually DO once they hit the tabletop! Unfortunately for me, my first opponent was one of the best players in the scene: a veteran who started playing Warhammer in the early nineties and a regular at the Norwegian ETC team for the last couple of years. His army was truly amazing and unique, I hadn't seen a single model (!) in his army ever before (he won best painted army award as well). Now, rusty was convinced that I'd get a real thrashing and with Ptolemy's battle report against Chaos Dwarfs in my mind, I wasn't too confident. However, he was a really sporting opponent and the game was easily one of the best I've ever had: a nice, relaxed atmosphere (as you'd expect in your run-of-the-mill friendly), lots of tense moments, some crucial dice, lots of laughter and some really nail-biting moments! Without further ado:

:: Evil Incarnate ::

The lists -

:: High Elves ::

Saerith with GW, AoC, Vambraces, Loec, Star Dragon - 622
BSB Naenor with Sword of Might, HoF, Shield, Dragon Armour, Great Eagle - 208
Olannon with Level 2, Annulian Crystal - 175

Characters - 1005

30 Archers, Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flames - 365
15 Archers, Musician - 170
10 Spearelves - 90

Core - 625

26 White Lions, Full Command, Banner of Swiftness, Amulet of Light - 450
14 Swordmasters, Bladelord w/Skeinsliver, Musician, STD w/Gleaming Pennant - 270

Special - 720

3 Great Eagles - 150

Rare - 150

Total - 2500

:: Chaos Dwarfs ::

Lvl 4 Sorceror-Prophet w/2+ re-rollable armour save, stubbornhelm (death)
Lvl 1 Sorceror w/scroll (metal)
BSB w/stuff

30 Infernal Guard
30 Chaos Dwarfs (not sure what these guys were or had to be honest, they may have been IG as well)

K'daai Destroyer
Iron Daemon (melee upgrades, T8, W8, no shooting, insane impact hits, insane thunderstomp)
Deathshriek Rocket
Hellcannon

Total - 2400

:: Pre-battle thoughts and deployment ::

We quickly went through his list and I was very happy that I had read Ptolemy's report prior to this engagement: I knew roughly what everything was and what it could do. Borrowing Tamurkan from Dark Reaper and reading the Chaos Dwarf stuff semi-thorough most certainly helped as well!

Magic - I got Curse and Shield (rolled them both naturally so no choice here). He got Searing Doom for his level 1 and his level 4 got Spirit Leech, Caress of Laniph, Soulblight, Doom and Darkness.

Deployment, and I had 3 crucial thoughts in my mind:
1 - Keep the Eagles central so as to be usable T1 for the K'daai
2 - Keep the flyers behind impassable terrain for worse accuracy
3 - Keep one flank heavily loaded, the other clear, to perform an enveloping manoeuvre (due to his slow nature, this could be game-winning)

To this end, I was quite happy with it. He deployed in a central position, flanked by K'daai on the West and the Iron Daemon on the East:

Image

Note: the rocks in the middle count as dangerous terrain. His Lvl 4 + BSB was in the IG unit, the Lvl 1 was in the CD unit

He had finished deployment first and unfortunately the benefits of Skeinsliver couldn't help me as I rolled a '1' and he a '4'.

:: Chaos Dwarfs T1 ::

He moved up his flanks, the Western one maximizing its move (Q - is a model/unit allowed to end its move with its base over an obstacle?). The centre shuffled a bit, but with M3 that's pretty much all you ever do!

Magic - I can't remember the details but the result was Doom and Darkness on my White Lions.

Shooting - his Deathshrieker Rocket misfired, despite a re-roll, and blew itself up! The Hellcannon fared better as it landed a direct hit on the Lions and killed 9, however I passed panic!

Image

:: High Elves T1 ::

First things first - block that K'daai! The Iron Daemon proved to be in a particularly annoying position as I couldn't march up as hard as I wanted to. In the end, I got a decent position but had I gotten T1 I could've been in a way more aggressive spot.

Magic saw me get Curse on his CD and Drain up, not too shabby!

Shooting killed a couple of CD. With his 3+ Armour Save and 5+ ward vs Fire, I believe targetting the Hellcannon might've been a better choice.

Image

:: Chaos Dwarfs T2 ::

2 blocking Eagles were charged, no surprise there.

Magic, I think I dispelled it all... Shooting however saw his Hellcannon target Saerith and score another hit! The hit was resolved against Faeria and wounded... However the D6 came up a '1' for multiple wounds!

Combat saw both Eagles die horribly. No wonder these birds never get really big, they always die at an early age!

Image

:: High Elves T2 ::

Having clarified that the Iron Daemon possesses no threat to my flyers, I combo-charge it with Saerith + Naenor. An Eagle moves to block the K'daai again while the rest move up.

Magic - I got off Drain, he prioritized dispelling Shield.

Shooting - a couple of CD, nothing major.

Combat - I showed him the destructive powers of the Star Dragon as I put 3W on him, however he still had 5 remaining.

Image

:: Chaos Dwarfs T3 ::

In my T2 I had positioned the Eagle outside the Dangerous Terrain to avoid taking a wound. Completely silly, as it was going to die regardless to the K'daai. In doing this, I allowed him to narrowly wheel past and engage the Lions. I wasn't quite ready for this but realized that it wasn't necessarily all bad as the Hellcannon was taking its toll on them. I was playing rather fast to ensure I could finish, so I think this placement was mostly due to instinct (i.e. avoid dangerous terrain).

So - the K'daai got into the Lions while his IG charged the Eagle, who chose to flee.

Magic saw him get D&D on my Lions again, and I was hoping that Saerith + Naenor would help me out here!

Shooting saw the Hellcannon miss its mark.

Combat was interesting, I knew I had to get rid of his Iron Daemon as soon as possible so I used Talisman of Loec. It wasn't optimal as I really wanted to have it against his Destroyer but I couldn't risk being stuck for another round. With a bit of luck and Loec, I managed to take it down and reformed to a very flexible position.

The Lions managed 2W on the Destroyer before he struck back and killed half the unit (the burn damage wasn't too bad, lots of 1's and 2's). I held on stubborn LD7, many thanks to Naenor!

Image

:: High Elves T3 ::

I was contemplating going all-in on the K'daai, however I forgot at this point that he had flaming attacks so I didn't dare sending in Naenor. Had I thought of this, I probably would've gone for it. Instead, I was afraid he'd survive and that Saerith would break on combat resolution (so many Lions could die...). Probably a mistake on my part as I left it alone and charged the CD instead.

The rest shuffled around, nothing major.

Magic - I dispelled D&D with all my dice.

Shooting didn't do anything major.

Combat - I wounded him 7 times with the Lions, however he saved 5 of them for only 2 wounds lost (leaving it on 2W). Now, he performed a minor combat reform which allowed him to get my Swordmasters' flank (totally my bad not to consider how this reform could change this angle). Saerith and Naenor reduced their opposing unit to ~10 models, taking no wounds in return.

Image

:: Chaos Dwarfs T4 ::

The K'daai charged my Swordmasters, who held. The Hellcannon opted to move up, taking up a flanking position.

Magic saw him kill my Eagle, just barely, with Spirit Leech. This was annoying as I really could've used it and 1W would be plenty.

Combat saw him kill off half the Swordmasters, I did nothing in return. I considered reforming here but didn't want to take the extra burn damage so I chose to stand with my flank against him. Saerith + Naenor killed off the IG and reformed to face the last unit, containing all his characters.

Image

:: High Elves T4 ::

I triple-charged his last unit with Archers (who had his flank), Saerith + Naenor. I reformed the last Archers to a single line where they forced the K'daai away from the central combat, should he wish to interfere.

Magic saw me get Drain up.

Combat - I scored lots of wounds and even killed off one of his characters. However he was stubborn and I got no-where. As the combat drew to a close I noticed that my Archers were easily in the Hellcannon's charge arc and I suddenly understood his move a lot better. I tried to combat reform them out of it but it couldn't be done. Since he was stubborn it was completely unnecessary for me to spend the Archers like that... The K'daai reduced the Swordmasters to 3 (really poor rolls) and due to the Gleaming Pennant I stood my ground! A crucial roll, Saerith's LD certainly helped out.

Image

:: Chaos Dwarfs T5 ::

His Hellcannon rear-charged my Archers.

Magic saw him get off D&D irresistably on Saerith, taking 1W on his Lord for the trouble. A huge bonus for him as the dice were 5v6 and I was going to lose because of all the free-kill Archers.

Combat saw his K'daai kill the Swordmasters easily enough and reform to face the Archers. The Hellcannon killed quite a few Elves and I rolled poorly for my flyers. I lost combat by 4, meaning I took break tests on 3-. Luckily enough, Naenor held but the Archers were caught by the Hellcannon and Saerith fled.

Image

:: High Elves T5 ::

Saerith rallied, taking care to have vision of both the K'daai and the central combat). The blocking Archers stayed put, intent on keeping their Noble safe. Magic was uneventful as the winds were low and he rolled high for his dispel roll.

Combat saw Naenor wound him once for nothing in return and we stuck.

Image

:: Chaos Dwarfs T6 ::

The Destroyer charged my Archers and I held. Magic saw him get 8v5 and he started off with 4D6 D&D on Saerith. I let it pass since I had Naenor's re-roll and figured that stopping Soulblight was vastly more important for my chances. LD7 re-rolled is ~75-80%, should my Archers even break/be killed in the first place! -1S, -1T on the other hand would've been way worse and I did indeed manage to dispel Soulblight.

The Hellcannon fired upon the Dragon, but missed it (I hadn't thought of this panic test when I prioritized dispelling)!

Combat saw the Archers die to a man (he finally rolled some good dice). Saerith managed to fail his test and fled, despite the re-roll. Naenor kept holding on however, trading blows for minor effect.

Image

:: High Elves T6 ::

In the last turn of the game I charged my Spears + Olannon into his flank, hoping to force one final break test and be lucky. I managed to rally Saerith on that crucial LD7 test, saving me over 300 victory points in the process!

Magic saw him dispel Shield easily, I was going for a 5D6 cast praying for IF to blast some stuff but couldn't get it.

Combat was close and he lost by 1. However the LD9 re-rollable was easily passed and with that the game was over!

Image

:: Victory Points ::

Counting up it quickly turned out to be an extremely close game. In the end he had killed 1480 points from me while I had killed 1391 from him. With such a small difference, the game was a 10-10 draw!

:: Evaluation and Conclusion ::

Overall, I think I did fairly well. The deployment was good, strategy was sound. However, although I had some knowledge of Chaos Dwarfs it wasn't nearly enough. Forgetting that the K'daai had flaming attacks hurt me so badly and sending in the Archers when I knew he was stubborn was just bad. Apart from this however I was happy with the game and indeed I think 10-10 was good considering how rusty was ready to bet on me losing 0-20!

I think that I played the 30 Archers pretty terrible here. Instead of taking pot shots at the CD I should've targeted the Hellcannon all along and continued shooting it rather than charging the IG.

Chaos Dwarfs are an interesting army to play against. I think they add a lot of variety to the meta and present a truly unique challenge: between 3 unbreakable monsters, Dwarf resilience, war machines and powerful magic, they are an elite force which plays very differently to the existing ones. The next time I face them, I'll know even better how to handle them. I should've taken away a win here, in my opinion, after the first ~2 turns I had a big advantage which I failed to properly capitalize upon. With that being said, this could've gone either way and we could both have ended with a 15-5 win.

A very enjoyable game and a perfect start for the tournament as I learned how to manage the time and got to know how nice and relaxed the atmosphere was! A lot of this was of course due to my opponent, so many thanks to him!

As always, C&C very welcome :) If you have any questions about CD, feel free to ask as I feel I have a pretty good grasp on their rules by now!

~Olannon

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Last edited by Curu Olannon on Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:44 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:22 pm 
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Hint: My prediction concerning Curu's performane previously in this thread was wrong.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:58 am 
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Great report. You did pretty well in such a bad matchup, and not having played against CD before. I will have to borrow Dark Reapers book and have a look myself.

This made me laugh:
Curu wrote:
No wonder these birds never get really big, they always die at an early age!

My very clever opponent in my last game did everything in his power (cannon, magic missiles) to kill my eagles, even though I hid them as well as I could. His failure to kill them cost him the game. I'm not surprised your eagles have a short life expectancy. Mine perished in 7 out of 10 possible cases in my five games.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:26 am 
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I updated the first post of this thread with the current army, a change I should've made a long time ago. I will have to update the rationale soon as well. I'll add the reports to the list in a moment. As for the other 4 games in the tournament I think I'll spread them out with a few days inbetween so as to get more focus for each game and not have the feedback influenced by 'future' results.

Time to address some replies, sorry for the delay!

@Tiralya - thanks! I was fairly pleased myself, though to be fair I would've really preferred to finish the army 100%. I know now though that it'll be easier to work with the rest of the painting since everything is partially finished (the mental process of starting on 30 unpainted archers is just so tough) so hopefully the army will be 'finished' before too long. Also, I know that when I'm done I'll revisit every model and add layers of highlight, blends, pick out details and clean up etc. The goal is to have an army which truly stands out (hence why I spent so much time and money getting the Dragon models, converting every core model and the custom bases). In the tournament, one could achieve a total of 25 points for painting. The best army got 20, the average was roughly 12. I received 15, in big parts because of the 'wow-factor' (a category of its own), the bases and the layers of highlights on the completed models. I was happy with this score, bearing in mind that I had at least 40 models that have plenty of paint to receive ;)

@John Rainbow - indeed guessing is difficult, I was just curious to see what the general concensus was. I know I've been promoting the Star Dragon for months now, so the question was to see if you believe in it (and this list, as well as my abilities of course) given the short updates I wrote ;)

@Brewmaster_D - Your predictions are roughly 50% correct. The first one we already know to be wrong, luckily for me I was able to bring it home a 10-10 in the end!

@rusty - indeed you were wrong for the both of us! As for CD, I highly suggest you read up on them. I think they're quickly going to become popular in the ETC I think because they have some counters that are just insanely strong against some of the other powerhouses out there. While the models are not easily available, eager players will find a way to field them and not knowing what they're capable of will quickly put you at a huge disadvantage (unless you have an Ironblaster >.<).

I haven't calculated my Eagles yet but out of 15 possible deaths I think 2 or 3 survived. While killing Eagles is crucial most of the time, VC don't have an easy way of doing this.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:49 am 
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Well played Sir
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Ye gads, that was close, and a nail biter, you need to remember the Dragon Armour more ^_^

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:45 pm 
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Wowee, great match Curu.

Just a few thoughts from my corner:

What are the saves like on that Destroyer again? It's got T6 with the -1 to wound in CC thing and a 4+ ward? Any armour? Did you consider directing your archer fire at it, as it doesn't get the -1 to wound vs. their ranged attacks?

I'm a bit curious about your deployment with the Lions and Swordmasters, having them one behind the other; I'm guessing things didn't go as planned here, as it allowed the Destroyer to take them out one at a time; can you explain a bit about what you were going for here?

That Iron Daemon sounds disgusting! T8 is mean - what is it's movement and armour save? It's sad to say, but I almost think the destroyer should have been priority 1 for your characters, with Naenor's magical attacks getting rid of the -1 to wound for him and Serith's ability to pop the talisman to make it reroll the wards, not to mention the 2+ ward those models have vs. it.

I think this fella's list suffers a bit from having two really fast elements, and then two slow elements. Despite the fast elements being... let's just call them "efficient for their points"... it effectively divides his battle line immediately. The fact that people feel confident running 1 or two models up on their own against *and entire army* really tells me that there's something up there that ain't right.

Great game Curu, glad you came out ahead of my prediction!

I'll take 50% accuracy, slightly above the 33% I'd expect if I just took wild stabs in the dark :P Wow, that sounded like my whole highschool career summed up.

D

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:02 pm 
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@Tiralya - I'm perfectly aware of Dragon Armour's benefits - I rather forgot that it had flaming attacks :(

@Brewmaster_D - Destroyer has a 4+ ward which increases to 2+ against flaming attacks. Its special -1 to wound rule applies to anything that's not magical - not only close combat attacks as far as I'm aware (otherwise my 15 Archers could've reformed to shoot it T5). Thus you need S5+ or magical attacks to hurt it.

Lions ahead of Swordmasters was because I wanted a strong flank. With M12 march I could easily get the Lions out of the way. The Iron Daemon somewhat hindered this and my missplacement of the Eagle sealed the deal, unfortunately. Overall I think this deployment is fine (since the Swords would otherwise have to go very wide) but I made some tactical errors.

The Iron Daemon's movement - I'm not really sure. I think it's M7 or M8 and some special rules for movement (can't march, can't overrun or pursue or something like that). Its armour save is 3+ so Searing Doom is decent.

Naenor's magical attacks wouldn't help Saerith nor Faeria at all: all attacks are considered separately. Still, Saerith wounds it on 5+ and Faeria on 4+ so this is clearly a good matchup.

As for his list, he placed 5th in the tournament, only losing to Ogre Kingdoms who finished 2nd (Ironblaster has a field day here). I think it's fine because he doesn't rush those two up, he rather rolls up one flank (if needed) and keeps the other at bay (many armies have no answers to the Iron Daemon). However most of the time he simply hangs back and pounds you, counter-charging at will.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:40 pm 
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Hey Curu,

Check out that match Ptolomy had again, specifically the discussion afterward. Its -1 to wound is only in cc.

Really makes me wonder about flaming on the archers now that there is scarier stuff with flaming wards.

D

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:09 pm 
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Yeah I read it, but I don't think this was pointed out during our match! This is indeed rather huge and something I'll have to consider for the future. The question is - how many 2+ ward save vs fire thingies are a problem to my list compared to how much utility I need against stuff like HPAs, Crypt Ghouls, Hydras etc ;)

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