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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:55 pm 
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Whats a frog doing on the 'cockatrice?' base in the last photo?

12 hours of gaming? :shock: Ye gads! my brain starts to hurt after 3 hours! :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:06 pm 
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Very nice looking table and armies there! =D>

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:50 pm 
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Looks like a fun game :)

And the important ting about that frog, did it kill something?:P

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 7:05 pm 
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@The Silly Dragon - the 'Cockatrice' is actually a Dragon Ogre Shaggoth model which is representing a Zoat. The reason it's a frog is because Team Evil got an Arcane Miscast which turned every wizard on the table into a frog (all stats reduced to 1, all equipment temporarily stop working). Originally the Zoat was with the Treekin but due to this mishap we moved him out of the unit.

The only reason we could manage so many hours (ended up throwing in the towel around 9-10) was because we took a couple of long brakes and had healthy food with lots of energy constantly available (fruits, nuts, ice-cold water, home-made pizza etc). I doubt I could play 12 hours non-stop.

@Findolfin - Thanks! Next time I'm hoping we'll get to paint up everything. The parts of the table where everything was completely done were pretty impressive! Next time we expect to make the game even bigger (by quite a bit!) so it'll be interesting :)

@Danidude - It was a lot of fun, but I think and hope that next time we'll houserule Storm of Magic better so that it'll be interesting past Turn 2 (in both our games some devastating results early on really sealed the game result).

I don't think the frog did much (not THAT one anyway: initially there were like ~15 frogs though) as the other team conceded the following turn ;)

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 8:25 pm 
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Good game :D
The "Great Frog Hunt" reduced the life expectancy of mages considerably.

I thinks it help to envison Storm of Magic somewhat like the Sorcery Enfilade of Pale, at the beginning of "Gardens of the Moon" (Steven Eriksson).
Basically, everything dies in droves, and it's very messy and chaotic.

I think we had 95% painted models on the table, I don't see a reason not to demand painted models next time. As for our choice in beverages, I doubt we would have lasted the whole game on beers.

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:57 pm 
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Haha awesome a Steven Erikson reference with my Warhammer forum reading. Life just got awesome. Also one of the few places I ever see sorcery and enfilade in the same sentence.

KO

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:15 pm 
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Curu, I've been dying to get back to playing with the Asur but I'm really keen to get some sense of success with the Tomb Kings before moving on/back.

On my return however I've got a unique list cooked up in my mind to really dictate the opponents movement phase, combined with great eagles and some other tricks it should be a fun list (not saying successful but certainly fun). I'll start a topic about this shortly and get some input as I'd like to start something unique as yourself, Seredain, SM and Brewmaster have done to some degree.

Oh, and yes I still think you're a master at this stuff regardless of a win or loss. Your analytical mindset and the way you identify key performance areas in your list and match them with the shortfallings in your opponents is what sets you above everyone else. I applaud you. =D>

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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 7:38 am 
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@rusty - I wonder how the game would've played it with a somewhat more normal result than the frogs (especially coupled with their abysmal rolls for un-frogging them!). Agree that painted models should be a requirement next time!

@KarsaOrlong - Don't you just love it when life's awesome? ^^

@Jimmy - Can't wait to hear your concept! Feel free to send me a PM if you want to discuss anything before 'going public' :) I'm sure you'll be able to identify key performance areas in your list as well as soon as you find something you enjoy using and learn how it plays. Analysis and experience most definitely teaches everyone a lot of things!

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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 6:05 pm 
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Reading for a crucial exam's really eating up most of my time these days, hence the lack of activity here. Based on various influences, I have a couple of list suggestions which I'd like to show you all and hopefully gather some comments about, should you have any! I feel that I've established a 'safe base' now that I can always fall back to and which I know works fairly well, however I'm always looking to see if anything can be optimized even further. The basis for all of these lists is the ETC rules, since changing from ETC to other comp systems is usually a lot easier than the other way around.

:: List Alternative 1 - Dragon Prince Bus ::

The most 'logical' of the 3, this list idea sees me add some mobility. I do believe this will hurt me a bit against Dwarfs (one of my poor matchups) where Swordmasters are ace, however I'm hoping it'll improve my chances against Ogre Kingdoms (another poor matchup) where I think their mobility can be crucial. The main point here is to have a more flexible battle line - I feel that against good opponents 2 blocks of infantry can, to a certain degree, be neutralized. Going from M5 -> M8 should mitigate this but it also drastically changes the way I play the Dragonlord:

Saerith on Faeria: AoC, VoD, ToL, GW - 622
Curu Olannon with A.C - 175
BSB Naenor on Barded Steed, HoF, SoM, Dragon Armour, Shield - 174

Characters - 971

30 Archers, F.C., flaming banner - 365
15 Archers, musician - 170
10 Spears - 90

Core - 625

26 Lions, F.C., +1M banner, AoL - 450
9 Dragon Princes, F.C, Skeinsliver - 345

Special - 795

2 Eagles

Rare - 100

Total - 2491

:: List Alternative 2 - Enter Sea Guard ::

Basically this list is the least impacting of the 3 and I'm simply seeking to optimize the army with regards to ETC rather than change anything. The question is simple: is armour save worth losing 6" for?

Prince Saerith with Great Weapon, Armour of Caledor, Vambraces of Defense, Talisman of Loec, riding Faeria the Star Dragon - 622
Noble BSB Naenor with Sword of Might, Helm of Fortune, Shield, Dragon Armour, Great Eagle - 208
High Mage Curu Olannon with Level 2, Annulian Crystal - 175

Characters :: 1005

30 Sea Guard with Shields, Full Command, Flamebanner - 425
15 Sea Guard with Shields, Musician - 200

Core :: 625

26 White Lions, Full Command, Banner of Swiftness, Amulet of Light - 450
14 Swordmasters, Full Command, Skeinsliver, Gleaming Pennant - 270

Special :: 720

3 Great Eagles - 150

Rare :: 150

Army Total :: 2500

:: List Alternative 3 - MSU/Coven of Light/Dragonlord (!) ::

This is a drastic change which sees me try and incorporate multiple elements which I believe can synergize very well with the Dragonlord: MSU-elites and a small Coven of Light.

Prince Saerith with Great Weapon, Armour of Caledor, Vambraces of Defense, Talisman of Loec, riding Faeria the Star Dragon - 622
BSB Naenor with Great Weapon, Dragon Armour, Radiant Gem of Hoeth (Light) - 169
Curu Olannon with Annulian Crystal (Light) - 175
Mage (yet to be named!) with Seerstaff of Saphery (Light: Pha's Protection, Banishment) - 165

Characters - 1131

30 Archers, F.C., flaming banner - 365
15 Archers, musician - 170
10 Spears - 90

Core - 625

2 Eagles

8 Lions -120
8 Lions - 120
8 Lions, std w/Banner of Sorcery - 182
7 Swordmasters, musician - 111
7 Swordmasters, musician - 111

Special - 644

2 Eagles - 100

Rare - 100

Army Total :: 2500

Basically the idea here is to have the Lions in a 2x4 formation which should create little frontage-issues. Together with the Dragon even a single unit or two should be able to tear apart most units with ease. I'm open to either going away from the MSU-bit (or simply add 2 Lion units together to boost the Banner-protection) or the Coven-bit to make the other work. However, I think they both have merit AND synergize greatly - especially when you don't need the power-per-frontage due to the support from the Dragon. Also, going magic heavy with the Dragon gives me lots of flexibility.

An interesting fact about this approach relative to my current is to look at the amount of elite infantry: I currently have 26+14 = 40 and this MSU-ish build has 24+14 = 38 (!). So basically I swapped 2 elite infantry for 2 mages (!). While it's of course not this simple, I think it speaks volumes to how much power the list still has.

I'm hoping you have some opinions about at least one of these approaches and I'm very much looking forward to hearing them :)

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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 6:34 pm 
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Quote:
:: List Alternative 3 - MSU/Coven of Light/Dragonlord (!) ::

This is a drastic change which sees me try and incorporate multiple elements which I believe can synergize very well with the Dragonlord: MSU-elites and a small Coven of Light.

Prince Saerith with Great Weapon, Armour of Caledor, Vambraces of Defense, Talisman of Loec, riding Faeria the Star Dragon - 622
BSB Naenor with Great Weapon, Dragon Armour, Radiant Gem of Hoeth (Light) - 169
Curu Olannon with Annulian Crystal (Light) - 175
Mage (yet to be named!) with Seerstaff of Saphery (Light: Pha's Protection, Banishment) - 165

Characters - 1131

30 Archers, F.C., flaming banner - 365
15 Archers, musician - 170
10 Spears - 90

Core - 625

2 Eagles

8 Lions -120
8 Lions - 120
8 Lions, std w/Banner of Sorcery - 182
7 Swordmasters, musician - 111
7 Swordmasters, musician - 111

Special - 644

2 Eagles - 100

Rare - 100

Army Total :: 2500


!!

I've heard rumours of the Dragon/Coven hybrid, but never seen it on paper. If you don't at least give it a whirl, I'm afraid you and I can no longer be on speaking terms :P

My only concern with it is that the Banner of Sorcery is on a tiny unit of lions. Maybe swap a few guys around to beef that unit up a bit? They're one bad MM away from giving up a huge advantage in magic.

The other issue with the list is you'll have to be much more careful with the Dragon in terms of challenges - you've now eliminated all champions from the mix, as well as your flying bsb. I still think you can work around this pitfall with some selective charges, however it'll definitely be a shift in playstyle... not that the list change itself isn't already lol.

What I love about it is this: ETC took away some of your ranged punch by capping the archers - you now have the ability to conclusively spam 2x Shem's and a banishment if you want. With a guaranteed pha's, your dragon doesn't have to sweat artillery lists quite so much (24" range on the base level too, easy to cast). Flames and Vaul's are the big two that I would lament losing, but I don't think it's gamebreaking.

I think you'll also be suprised how often 3 mages actually manage to channel. When it happens in the opponent's phase, it can really take the wind out of their sails.

Where would you be bunkering the coven? Remember that the AoE buffs are limited range, which presents a bit of a mixed imperative for the mages if you're looking to capitalize on them.

If nothing else, it'll make for an interesting game!

D

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 4:38 am 
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Brewmaster_D wrote:
Quote:
:: List Alternative 3 - MSU/Coven of Light/Dragonlord (!) ::

This is a drastic change which sees me try and incorporate multiple elements which I believe can synergize very well with the Dragonlord: MSU-elites and a small Coven of Light.

Prince Saerith with Great Weapon, Armour of Caledor, Vambraces of Defense, Talisman of Loec, riding Faeria the Star Dragon - 622
BSB Naenor with Great Weapon, Dragon Armour, Radiant Gem of Hoeth (Light) - 169
Curu Olannon with Annulian Crystal (Light) - 175
Mage (yet to be named!) with Seerstaff of Saphery (Light: Pha's Protection, Banishment) - 165

Characters - 1131

30 Archers, F.C., flaming banner - 365
15 Archers, musician - 170
10 Spears - 90

Core - 625

2 Eagles

8 Lions -120
8 Lions - 120
8 Lions, std w/Banner of Sorcery - 182
7 Swordmasters, musician - 111
7 Swordmasters, musician - 111

Special - 644

2 Eagles - 100

Rare - 100

Army Total :: 2500


!!

I've heard rumours of the Dragon/Coven hybrid, but never seen it on paper. If you don't at least give it a whirl, I'm afraid you and I can no longer be on speaking terms :P

My only concern with it is that the Banner of Sorcery is on a tiny unit of lions. Maybe swap a few guys around to beef that unit up a bit? They're one bad MM away from giving up a huge advantage in magic.

The other issue with the list is you'll have to be much more careful with the Dragon in terms of challenges - you've now eliminated all champions from the mix, as well as your flying bsb. I still think you can work around this pitfall with some selective charges, however it'll definitely be a shift in playstyle... not that the list change itself isn't already lol.

What I love about it is this: ETC took away some of your ranged punch by capping the archers - you now have the ability to conclusively spam 2x Shem's and a banishment if you want. With a guaranteed pha's, your dragon doesn't have to sweat artillery lists quite so much (24" range on the base level too, easy to cast). Flames and Vaul's are the big two that I would lament losing, but I don't think it's gamebreaking.

I think you'll also be suprised how often 3 mages actually manage to channel. When it happens in the opponent's phase, it can really take the wind out of their sails.

Where would you be bunkering the coven? Remember that the AoE buffs are limited range, which presents a bit of a mixed imperative for the mages if you're looking to capitalize on them.

If nothing else, it'll make for an interesting game!

D


Curu have you considered this build? (Star dragon w lord w other tricksters shard, warriors bane, charmed shield, dragon armour and tal of preservation).

This essentially makes you prince tanky enough but not that combat oriented. If you get challenged you might not kill the guy and the dragon comes into play and your might have a chance of getting +5 overkill....

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 6:34 am 
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@Brewmaster_D - I'll most likely try it out before the summer vacation. Banner of Sorcery and champions are indeed a problem. Removing 2 Lions and grouping the reduced unit together with the BoS one gives me 14 Lions with the Banner and lets me add a Champion with Amulet of Light. Even with Light I prefer to have some way of dealing magical damage. The question is, will one Guardian be enough? My initial guess is no, so we'll have to see what I can do about this. One option is removing even 2 more Lions and adding 2 Bladelords. Thus the elite setup will be as follows:
6 Lions (3x2, perfect for flank protection, monster hunting etc)
14 Lions, F.C, Banner of Sorcery, Amulet of Light
7 Swordmasters, Bladelord & Musician
7 Swordmasters, Bladelord & Musician

Meaning I'll be down to 34 total, but that's still not half-bad in my opinion, considering the other threats the list presents.

Losing High Magic most definitely will see me miss Vaul's and Flames, however you're never sure of getting either of them and that mage setup was initially dedicated to defense.

The Coven would likely be spread between the core units: BSB with spears, Mages with Archers. With this setup, I think LSG aren't worth it because having more models to hide the mages in is superior.

@pk-ng - I've considered most possible builds, but I fail to see how anyone's universally better than the good ol' AoC/VoD. It boils down to this:
- 2+ re-rollable and 4+ ward is insanely good, you can tank S3-5 forever and even against heavy hitters you're well off, defensively
- S6 on the Prince is vastly better than S5 (the same way S7 on the cavalry prince is vastly better than S6)
- Charmed Shield only removes one hit, meaning a cannonball for example will still hit the Dragon if it hasn't been removed by chaff shooting

Some analysis with regards to spell selection:
- BSB rolls first and keeps his spell regardless of what he gets
- Level 2 tries to get Pha's and Banishment. The priority here will depend on the matchup, but if I can get either of them there's always value!
Assuming things don't go as planned, I won't have duplicated of neither. This leaves me with a selection of 3/4 of the following:
- Speed of Light: actually a pretty good spell considering the Dragon's I2. It also ensures my elites will take apart ANYTHING
- Light of Battle: situational, but could be good if the matchup's one where I could use the Dragon recklessly
- Net of Amyntok: a real killer against offensive wizards and great against War Machines
- Timewarp: situational but could easily turn a unit of elites into a fast unit or a proper meat-grinder
So I'll always have one spell with value (in addition to Pha's and Banishment from the Seermage) and one situational, with the option of swapping for Shem's. Since this is a worst case scenario, I think that the spell selection overall is pretty good. There are points left in the character slot to add a 4th mage, but I believe this'll cut too deep with regards to the Elites and add fairly little value (improved spell selection isn't critical, however S7 Banishment would be nice!).

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 8:43 am 
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Curu, do you consider the BSB essential? You could pretty much ensure double Banishment if you swapped him for a Mage.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 9:04 am 
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SpellArcher wrote:
Curu, do you consider the BSB essential? You could pretty much ensure double Banishment if you swapped him for a Mage.


Since the BSB is also a mage, I would only gain 1 level and lose some coven-protection (as discussed previously, a BSB-mage can really help out against small, mage-threatening things). This extra level increases the chances of doubling up on Banishment from ~72% to ~91%: an increase of 19%. In other words, roughly 1 in 5 games the mage-over-bsb will ensure another Banishment where I otherwise would not have had it. However, I think double Pha's can be equally devastating here, and the chance of getting one of them with the current setup is >90%. Besides, as I argued in my last post, should it happen that I don't get neither I'm still guaranteed at least 3 strong casts in any given situation (banishment + pha's from Seermage, Speed of Light / Net of Amyntok from the ones missing out on duplication). I consider the re-rolls vastly more important here than the 19% increase alone, and with that analysis I believe the BSB is a better choice.

One factor I have not considered here is the fact that an extra mage provides an extra arcane slot. The Ring of Corin could be an excellent choice here for example. However, losing the BSB means I should really try and get some leadership-protection across the board and this is simply too expensive with the MSU-ish approach. With bigger blocks and without a Star Dragon, this might be viable, however due to the small nature of these units (losing 2 SM would force a panic test) I think it's too big a risk (and thus a liability) to drop the BSB.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 9:12 am 
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I agree that the AoC/VoD is our best defensive build

The thing with the build I offered was the fact that if you get into challenges your prince might not kill the challenger therefore your dragon can get full swing at it! Meaning it's possible for you to get +1 for kill +5 overkill. You won't have to risk vs-ing SCR of +4/5. Just an unconventional way of thinking...

Just not sure if it's worth it...

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 9:40 am 
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I see your point, and I've considered this many times before, however regardless of what you do you end up with 4 WS7 ASF attacks at S4 or higher, leaving it very unlikely that a champion survives (a hero might, depending on loadout). The Dragon usually hits on 3's so is very unlikely to get more than 4 wounds total. I think that all the things you're giving up isn't worth this marginal benefit - it's simply put too risky and too situational.

I do agree that LD-based breaking the Dragon can be dangerous, but Light partially compensates for this weakness :)

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 9:51 am 
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Curu, really like the list with the 14/6 Lion split - bubbled Pha's should help the small, fragile elite units survive a bit longer too - and if you opponant is firing cannons/magic missiles at you elites, they're not firing them at the Dragon.

With Light too, if you can get Speed of Light/Pha's off, suddenly the 10 Spear Elves go from being a speedbump to a genuine "mini-anvil"

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 10:24 am 
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My idea was to take Silver Wand on the replacement Mage, pushing the chance of double Banishment up to about 97% I think Curu.

But I appreciate you consider the BSB more important.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:04 pm 
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@Jal - thanks for the feedback! I truly believe that Pha's can work very well both with the Dragon and elites.

Incidentally as you pointed out, the Spears (especially with BSB) can actually do something given the right support.

@SpellArcher - ah yes, that sort of changes things. However, running around with a ~600 point model who has no insurance whatsoever against LD-based things when Death is so popular and combat resolution is such a big weakness is likely not a good idea. At the very least, that list would play very differently. I will remember this change, but initially I believe the loss of the BSB to be too critical.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:16 pm 
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A WS10 I10 Dragon is quite nice too!

Especially if you can get Timewarp off too - Dragon's rerolling hits is a tad broken

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 6:34 pm 
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Timewarp on the Dragon is nice, but the casting cost is prohibitively high, in my opinion. It nets me +2A and the Dragon gets to strike first, but not with re-rolls unless I also get Speed of Light off. With a selection of the other spells from Lore of Light, I think this combo will likely be largely situational. The main scenarios I see:

- Big Lions + Dragon in combat (likely against a tough unit) - bubble Pha's is a priority, bubble Speed is secondary. Timewarp rarely needed, though it could give the Lions some extra oomph I don't think it's as good as the other spells.
- Big Lions need a boost to help the Dragon. Timewarp a priority.
- Dragon needs protection. Pha's a priority
- Ranged advantage - Banishment a priority, perhaps Timewarp

Example Scenario 1: VC Knight bus. Engaging such a thing requires pressure beforehand and clearing chaff. Banishment + Archers are excellent here, depending on the bus the Dragon might also get a chaff-clearing duty in the first phases.

Example Scenario 2: A game against Empire where an opening presented by the Dragon allows a good combo-charge on a key unit in the following turn. Speed is essential here, as is chaffing away potential support / blocking escape routes.

Example Scenario 3: Ogres. They fear Banishment, very likely that either Banishment on an Ironblaster or Pha's on the Dragon go through.

Example Scenario 4: Vampire Counts early game phases: Banishment blasts big holes in hard units with its 3D6 hits while Timewarp creates amazing threat-arcs.

I think that the beauty of Light with this list is that its spell selection is so forgiving since there are always opportunities where you have at least 2 very good spells to cast - even if you roll horrible for the spells pre-game! There are probably lots of options I'm not considering at the moment, hopefully I'll realize them when I need them ;)

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 5:50 pm 
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Sorry about the short absence, real life's been plenty busy lately!

It looks like I'm having a practice game or two in the near future, and I'm eager to test some of these new thoughts out, not to mention playing Warhammer at all again! First up though is a painting night tomorrow at rusty's place. I'll see if I can get a couple of decent shots :)

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 6:39 pm 
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IMHO Other trickster's shard > Talisman of loec in the current state of the game.

My Prince has Sword of might, dragon armor, enchanted sheild, vambraces and other trickster's on a star dragon.

My coven also has 3 mages and a bsb =p

But admittedly that cuts down on what else you can include.

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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 4:01 pm 
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Not so sure about that Keith, I think the versatility of Loec is insane. I have yet to miss OTS on the Prince.

Just got home from a game vs rusty's Ogres, which he just recently started. It was, as usual, a highly entertaining and interesting game, with lots of crucial moments ;) I don't know if I can get the report up today, but for now here are some highlights:
- Snake eyesing Pha's for my first cast in an important phase
- Passing lots of LD tests with negative modifiers
- The importance of rolling double 6's to cast or dispel
- Versatility of Ironblasters
- Relative vulnerability of Ogre infantry to volume of attacks/firepower

His list was roughly as follows:
6 bulls, 9 Ironguts, 6 Leadbelchers, 2 Ironblasters, characters, cats

I ran the Coven of Light/MSU hybrid with the most recent Elite setup ;)

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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 8:36 pm 
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@Keith
Imho, Loec is useful in pretty much any matchup, and force multiplies the prince AND dragon quite a lot. One example: Loec turns one on one Bloodthirster vs Star Dragon from even, to suicide for the bloodthirster. Knowing that the prince has Loec means I have to commit a lot more to take him, or more usually expect the prince to kill something even more expensive..

In contrast, OTS only affect ward saves, which not everyone have.

Finally, doing really great in one combat turn might just win the whole combat, and the game, when a star dragon is involved.
The only "reliable" way I've found of taking down a star dragon is to put so much pressure on the HE army that the HE player is forced to commit the dragon to handle my biggest hitters. The it's a "simple" matter of piling whatever other units I have available until the dragon and prince is dead. With Loec this is even more true, because Loec will be used in the most crucial turn. Therefore, I need several turns of trowing bodies into the breach before the dragon might fall.


@Curu
You forgot scouting maneaters. A splendid game, as usual. I will read up on character placement in unit before my next game, and put in an order for twenty more leadbelchers.

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 9:29 am 
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Curu: I'm looking at the StarCoven(tm) list you have there and I'm wondering if small elites of lions is really the way to go? Whats your position on chariots and Swordmasters as the only non-Banner of Sorcery units in special? The chariots provide some form of target saturation with the Dragon and will have a high damage output on a small frontage while Swordmasters can add a good burst damage round as well. This could really be an army that can do massive damage on the charge and break the enemy swiftly. And if they hold they would normally be so small that the next round would see them off and have your units free in your own movement phase.


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 9:34 am 
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@rusty - indeed I forgot the Maneaters! I'll post the lists when the BR gets up and you can correct it if there's any mistakes ;)

Looking forward to your progress of mastering character placement - I think this game taught you a valuable lesson or two with regard to character-stars!

@joey_boy - the list I fielded had: 14 Lions, 2x7 Swordmasters, 6 Lions. I'll analyze and discuss this setup along with alternatives at the end of the upcoming report :) The general problem I have with chariots is their inbuilt weakness to cannons and deathstars/big units, which I frequently tend to face. I've seen wamphyri and Anathir use them to great effect though so I might have to re-evaluate at some point ;)

I've decided to split up the report in 3 parts: deployment + early game, midgame, lategame + analysis. This is mainly to gather input before you know the results, but also because I'm kind of short on time and thus it's easier to do it one part at a time :) I'll get the first part up today, promise!

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 2:29 pm 
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@Curu
The mistakes were mostly on my part. Looking forward to the report.

Here's my army list:
2500 Pts - Wolfen army

1 Slaughtermaster
General; Magic Level 4; Lore of the Great Maw
Talisman of Preservation
Crown of Command

1 Firebelly
Magic Level 2; Lore of Fire
Dispel Scroll
Potion of Speed
Warrior Bane
Dragonbane Gem

1 Bruiser
Great Weapon; Battle Standard
Armour of Destiny

9 Ironguts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Standard; Musician, champ
Standard of Discipline

6 Ogres
Iron Fist; Light Armour; Standard; Musician, chrusher

6 Leadbelchers
Light Armour; Musician, Thunderfist

6 Maneaters
heavy armour, additional hand weapon
Scouts; Swiftstride
Full command.

3x1 Sabretusk Pack

3x1 Ironblaster

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 3:32 pm 
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Alright, let's get this started!

:: Remember, Thou Art Mortal - Part 1 - Deployment and Early-game ::

The lists:

High Elves
Dragonlord
Lvl 2 Seermage
Lvl 1 BSB
Lvl 2 Crystalmage

30 Flaming Archers, full command
15 Archers, musician
10 Spears

14 Lions, FC, Skeinsliver, Banner of Sorcery
6 Lions
7 Swordmasters, muso + blade
7 Swordmasters, muso + blade

2 Eagles

Ogres
Slaughtermaster, stubborn, 4+ ward
Firebelly, scroll
BSB, 4+ ward

9 Guts, FC
6 Bulls

3 Kitties
6 Belchers
6 Maneaters

2 Ironblasters

:: Pre-battle thoughts & deployment::

I was anxious to see how this army would play relative to my old magic-defense approach. Finally I would be able to throw around some offensive stuff as well!

Rusty had recently acquired the models he needed to start his long awaited Ogres army so he was eager to try them out as well. We decided to play by the book (meaning I had to face 2 Ironblasters) but he toned down on the over-the-top stuff like Runemaw, Hellheart etc. We chose to use SLoS simply because it's quickly becoming popular around here, even in the non-ETC games (it really is an easy system and having read Seredain's most recent report I'm glad I don't have to face the headache that is TLoS).

Magic - he rolled mostly poor spells, much to my relief. I got Speed of Light for the BSB and rolled the same + Timewarp on the Crystalmage. I swapped the 2nd roll of Speed for Banishment, doubling up on it.

I won the roll-off for deployment and chose the side with a dominating hill, a perfect place to hide Saerith and give me a central view of the field. With his kitties and a couple of obvious drops, it was hard for me to outdeploy him despite the MSU-ish nature of my army. Regardless, I was fairly happy with the result:

Image

I won the roll for first turn (+2 helps!) and thus, went first!

:: High Elves Turn 1 ::

I moved the Western Eagle to block his Maneaters, making ready for a combo-charge next turn. The Eastern one along with Saerith inched a bit to get better protection. I angled the big Archers and slightly moved the Crystalmage to have a front arc to his Western Ironblaster. The East Lions moved up to prevent hyper-aggressive moves and the rest shuffled a bit.

Magic and I realize my first mistake: in angling the big Archers away, the Crystalmage is out of the 12" bubble from the Seermage (the BSB was within range of both, I believe) thus losing me -1S from Banishment. Regardless winds etc were good, the total was 9v4. What I wanted to do here was to cast 3D6 x3 to draw the scroll out. The first cast saw me roll high on 3D6 Banishment on his closest Ironblaster and he let it through. I scored 3 wounds but would've killed it with S6. The second cast was dispelled and the remaining 3 dice were spent to Timewarp the Lions, ensuring the Maneaters wouldn't have much of an option. Unfortunately though, this was cast with IF. The result was a '7' and a couple of Archers died.

In shooting the small Archers opened up on the Ironblaster with 2W left but I failed to score any 6's to wound it. The big Archers took down an Irongut.

With that, I ended my first turn but I was not very happy with the result: poor placement on my part meant his scroll was still around and I had missed out on quite a bit with the crystalmage mistake. The optimal thing here would be to blast his Eastern blaster (pun intended) with a 4D6 and a 5D6 Banishment, hopefully getting a scroll out.

Image

:: Ogres Turn 1 ::

Rusty charged the blocking Eagle and marched his Gutstar up at full speed. The rest of his elements shuffled a bit, the Eastern Ironblaster fearing the small Lions.

Magic was an 'impressive' 3v5 and I shot him down completely. Shooting was somewhat more productive for him as one Ironblaster missed the Eagle and the other took out 5 Archers while the Leadbelchers killed 5 Swordmasters.

Combat saw his Maneaters kill the Eagle and overrun into the Lions, getting the required 10+ needed to cause some serious impact hits. Since they had Swiftstride, it would be very hard for me to deal with them other than hope he'd fail a 10+ roll.

Image

Ok, that's it for Part 1 folks! Opinions and thoughts very welcome :) I'll try and have Part 2 up tomorrow!

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 3:35 pm 
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Is that triple Ironblaster Rusty? I was convinced they were Rare....

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