Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

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Elessehta of Yvresse
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1351 Post by Elessehta of Yvresse »

If you want Great Eagles, the new Hobbit ones are nice!
[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34506][i]Lord Elessehta Silverbough of Ar Yvrellion, Ruler of Athel Anarhain, Prince of the Yvressi.[/i][/url]
[quote="Narrin’Tim"]These may be the last days of the Asur, but if we are to leave this world let us do it as the heroes of old, sword raised against evil![/quote]
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1352 Post by Curu Olannon »

Elessehta of Yvresse wrote:If you want Great Eagles, the new Hobbit ones are nice!
See? That's the kind of thing I really appreciate you telling me! Having been away for months, this is something which has completely slipped past me, and it's really a big deal for us High Elf players. Now, I have a couple of Dragons which I intend to use as Great Eagles, but I'll sure look into the Hobbit miniatures :) Thanks, and keep `em coming!
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John Rainbow
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1353 Post by John Rainbow »

Did you see the new FAQs? Not sure if they matter much to you or with the ETC rulings but you might want to check them out.
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1354 Post by Curu Olannon »

John Rainbow wrote:Did you see the new FAQs? Not sure if they matter much to you or with the ETC rulings but you might want to check them out.
No, I didn`t. Could you link them and / or give me a brief rundown on the most important changes? :)
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1355 Post by Curu Olannon »

The Prince conversion is nearly done. Again, thanks a lot for the input. Here are some WiP photos:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

What remains is to fix his seating and smooth out edges, joints etc. Paint-wise I think I`m going to keep with the standard scheme, though I believe I can do something subtle with the helmet and cloak to make him stand out.

C&C appreciated, as always :)
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1356 Post by Elessehta of Yvresse »

Nice, I like the PG champ helm, and the big axe.
[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34506][i]Lord Elessehta Silverbough of Ar Yvrellion, Ruler of Athel Anarhain, Prince of the Yvressi.[/i][/url]
[quote="Narrin’Tim"]These may be the last days of the Asur, but if we are to leave this world let us do it as the heroes of old, sword raised against evil![/quote]
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1357 Post by Tarval »

What parts did u use?
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1358 Post by Curu Olannon »

@Elessehta of Yvresse - I`m actually not 100% about the helm just yet, but I think it`s ok. The alternatives include no helm at all, various conversions of plain helms (see the BSB for example) and of course the feathered variant which comes with the noble/prince kit. The axe I really liked though, at first I was really sceptical but once I found the downward position coupled with the pointing finger I knew I had a winner. The thing is that the last conversion was competing with the Dragon for attention, as if the model were screaming "look at me". Now, the rider is more relaxed, in a commanding position with total confidence. It really does add to the overall feel of the model, in my opinion.

@Tarval - I used the legs, torso and right arm (axe-arm), along with the cloak from the noble/prince kit. The head is from the Phoenix Guard sprue and the left arm (pointing-arm) is from the Archer sprue. I used a lot of greenstuff to fill in various edges and joints to make it look smoother. The model is now coated in black, I`m hoping to put down all foundation colours tomorrow :)

It`s been brought to my attention that the standard around here is some kind of semi-ETC with High Elves, along with most other races, having only 2400 points. If this is true I`ll have to look into another style of play. Seeing as I believe my biggest advantage in Warhammer is to capitalize on offensive mobility, I`ll likely avoid the Coven of Light, along with Furion`s shooting approach. While these two strategies are undoubtably great, I believe I`ll perform better with another setup which allows me to control the movement in an offensive manner. To this end, I`ve been toying around with lists centered around Shadow Archmages, dual level 4`s, Cavalry Prince etc. It doesn`t have to be earth-shattering original, I just want to find something solid. Again, C&C much appreciated :)
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MR. GRUMPY
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1359 Post by MR. GRUMPY »

The easiest solution would be put the lord on a eagle instead? Does not change your playstyle much at all although he will need more support.

Myself Im rolling with a silverhem bus, chariots and a pushing infantery line. With life magic and loremastercloak to keep them alive and the beast sig for my 40-man spear block or the bus and find it incredibly fun. Do fit your bill of agressive as sitting back is never an option for this list. :)
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1360 Post by Elessehta of Yvresse »

Oh the PG helm, take the wings off and lay them against the helm, maybe add a feather, looks awesome!
[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34506][i]Lord Elessehta Silverbough of Ar Yvrellion, Ruler of Athel Anarhain, Prince of the Yvressi.[/i][/url]
[quote="Narrin’Tim"]These may be the last days of the Asur, but if we are to leave this world let us do it as the heroes of old, sword raised against evil![/quote]
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1361 Post by Elithmar »

Elessehta of Yvresse wrote:Oh the PG helm, take the wings off and lay them against the helm, maybe add a feather, looks awesome!
I don't think it works quite as well with the champion helmet, but I've seen it done very well with the rank and file ones. If only I could remember where I saw it though, Ele... ;)

You could try light magic. Use Timewarp on the Lions and Net to control movement.
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1362 Post by Elessehta of Yvresse »

Oh yea, I just checked my aborted Secret Santa model, it was a rank and file helm, the Champ ones wings might be too big...
Still a cool helm, I'll fix that model one day and finish it.
[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34506][i]Lord Elessehta Silverbough of Ar Yvrellion, Ruler of Athel Anarhain, Prince of the Yvressi.[/i][/url]
[quote="Narrin’Tim"]These may be the last days of the Asur, but if we are to leave this world let us do it as the heroes of old, sword raised against evil![/quote]
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1363 Post by Elithmar »

Elessehta of Yvresse wrote:Oh yea, I just checked my aborted Secret Santa model, it was a rank and file helm, the Champ ones wings might be too big...
Still a cool helm, I'll fix that model one day and finish it.
Aborted? I suppose it means you get to keep it though. ^_^
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1364 Post by Elessehta of Yvresse »

It got broken, just after I started the base coats. I might still send it to him but not for a while, the new one is cool too.
[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34506][i]Lord Elessehta Silverbough of Ar Yvrellion, Ruler of Athel Anarhain, Prince of the Yvressi.[/i][/url]
[quote="Narrin’Tim"]These may be the last days of the Asur, but if we are to leave this world let us do it as the heroes of old, sword raised against evil![/quote]
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1365 Post by Curu Olannon »

@MR. GRUMPY - I do believe that an Eagle Prince plays significantly different to a Dragon Prince. There's more to a Dragon than flying, the same cannot be said for the Eagle.

@Elessehta of Yvresse - I could try it. At the moment I'm happy with the helm, actually. Of course there are options, but for now I want to see it finished before I do anything. Swapping a head is relatively easy :)

@Elithmar of Lothern - have you tried swapping the champion helmet? I imagine it's easier with the R'n'F as you say, but I do believe it can be done with this one as well :)
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1366 Post by Curu Olannon »

Some more WiP shots:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

A couple of notes: again the blitz isn't doing anyone any favours, but it's the best I got. The paint mostly lacks highlighting (with the exception of the silver parts), I've done 2-3 layers so far. I chose to go for a lot of silver to make him stand out from the Dragon. It gives him a different feel, more commanding and brilliant than the fiery, destructive dragon. I also opted to use a lot of white for the same reason, in particular I believe the axe will stand out. I think brown (my original idea) would've blended too much in with the earthy colours on the dragon. Lastly I believe there's enough red and gold to keep him tied in with the army, in particular with the helm being such a dominant piece of the model.
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1367 Post by Elessehta of Yvresse »

I love the PG arm with him pointing where the dragon needs to go, looks good.
[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34506][i]Lord Elessehta Silverbough of Ar Yvrellion, Ruler of Athel Anarhain, Prince of the Yvressi.[/i][/url]
[quote="Narrin’Tim"]These may be the last days of the Asur, but if we are to leave this world let us do it as the heroes of old, sword raised against evil![/quote]
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1368 Post by Tarval »

I really like that dragon model, have you thought about making doing a huge highlight on his wing section to make those stand out. Maybe some type of graveyard earth or something to make the inside of the wings stand out vs the dark of the main body? Tan of some type,

The model does look rocking,,, that is a beast of a model. As well it made me go over to the forge world and check out there selection again. The only thing I have gotten from this was the IG commissar and he turned out really great.

Lots of cool toys there.
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1369 Post by Curu Olannon »

@Elessehta of Yvresse - that's actually from the Archer kit. I'm unsure of whether the PG have the same one? I needed to use a bit of greenstuff to get it into the position I wanted, otherwise he was pointing nearly 90 degrees out ^^

@Tarval - yes I've though about it, but no I'm not going to do it. I want this dragon to stay black, first and foremost. The wings have already been highlighted with 2 layers upon the black coat, it's just really dark so it's hard to spot. It gives a feel of depth when you look at them in real life, without taking away from its black tone. I haven't begun highlighting the body yet (the black parts) and the scales need at least 2 more layers. The thing is that as it looks now, there are more pressing painting jobs in the army. That, and highlighting 100 scales is incredibly dull (yes, I've done 3 layers already).

So I've thought a bit about the various approaches I can take to 2400 points. In a way, I miss the magic part of this game and as such I'm looking to go for relatively magic-heavy approaches, which effectively means dropping the Prince @ 2400 points (most likely, anyways).

Now I'm not looking to go down the Coven-road, for a number of reasons, so instead I'll list two ideas which I believe I could enjoy playing:

:: Traditional Shadow Magic ::

This build is as old and reliable as they get. Seeing as I've never played these kind of lists before, I believe I can find this interesting. I'm also hoping that I can get to utilize what I've learned about mobility using the Dragonlord to further enhance the potential of lists such as this:

Archmage Shadow Silver Wand Ring of Fury - 310
BSB, AoC DS GW - 168
Mage A.C - 140

30 Archers, flaming
2x10 Archers

Core: 600

21 WL, FC, AoL - 360
25 PG, FC, BoS - 455

4 Eagles - 200

= 2233

Some points left to play around with. Anything from 5DP to a Chariot to Swordmasters have crossed my mind. This is the basic setup though, which I believe grants me a lot of flexibility. For the level 1 mage, I've been contemplating Metal vs High Magic. I think both lores have their virtues, but I'm currently leaning towards metal. I might also upgrade him to level 2. As for the BSB, I've considered giving him Loremaster`s Cloak. It's a dirt cheap item and would really help me protect the Archmage and/or the vulnerable Lions in a lot of situations. An even better option perhaps is to simply give him the World Dragon banner.

The other approach I haven't really completed my train of thought with yet. Basically, it revolves around dual Archmages. Not sure what kind of lores I'd take, nor how I'd build my army around it, but I believe it can be truly devastating.
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1370 Post by MR. GRUMPY »

I highly reccomend the loremasters cloak. I am surprised how few people use it. I would put it on your archmage and let him start out in the white lions in that list, myself I put him in a swordmasters unit. Banner of the world dragon is also good of course if the bsb has no role in your army other then re-rolls but could be nice to have him with standard set-up to give some extra cr to the PGs or with the reaver bow for more shots.

And I dont think you need silver wand on your level 4. What about staff of solidity or kiting him out with the magic defense you want freeing seerstaff up for a potential level 2? Fire and high magic can really boost those archers.
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1371 Post by Tarval »

I ran the dbl AM and found that a single Am, backed up with a seerstaff mage is more than capable of doing what you need.

Then again my lore set pushed that direction for me. Like others I am not a fan of Pg, they just dont have the swing for me.
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1372 Post by Curu Olannon »

@MR. GRUMPY - I think it boils down to the fact the BotWD is often better. A lot of people don't consider magic to be a big threat for us at all, either. The specifics, item-wise, will definitely be up for discussion and playtesting later on :)

@Tarval - I think the Lores play a huge role here. In some cases, your conclusion is right. However, I'm not sure it always is. I have an idea which I'll draft up later, for now though I have some more pictures:

Nearly done painting the Prince. It's taken me most of the day and I pretty much haven't done anything useful ^^ The only thing remaining is highlighting the black areas. Reading through the painting and modelling forum yesterday, I noticed Jimmy had a really nice way of highlighting his sphinxes to ensure that dark areas look dark. I'm going to look into this some more before I start the black parts. The Dragon has a lot left anyways so it's not like the model will be finished. Also, I need to glue him to the neck. I'll probably drill here because my experiences from the last rider tell me this is necessary.

I'm very happy with how the helm turned out, it really came into its own with the 4 layers of red/yellow: majestic and dominating.

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1373 Post by Curu Olannon »

Ok, some list ramblings:

Archmage Shadow Wand GP Fireward 300
Archmage Life AC 300
BSB, AoC DS GW - 168

Characters: 768

Archers!

Core: 600

25 WL, FC, AoL, +1M - 435
24 PG, FC, BoS - 440

Special: 875

3 Eagles - 150

= 2393

The idea is to support the #¤%& out of those two units. Between them and the Archers, there should be answers for everything. This is just an initial draft and I'm very open for ideas.

The ruleset is a subset of etc, with some additions of its own. The most important rules are:
- max 5 PD per spell
- no dual lores on Lvl 3 + 4`s
- Mindrazor is capped at S7
- Max 3 flying units per army
- Max +3PD/DD per turn
- No units above 40 models / 450 points
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1374 Post by Teledor »

Looking good. The conversion turned out well, and he's facing the right way!

I like the shadow list. I run PGs even in my light coven setup. It's hard to beat them for an anvil or a survivable hammer with mindrazor. Also think metal on your mage would be a nice pick up, to help with armored threats.

You plan on placing your BSB near your mages? BSB in the lions with Loremaster's wouldn't be too bad. I'm just always hesitant to take BSB's that lack AoC... It feels like they die too easily.

If you ran two AMs, I'd think either shadow/death, so you could possibly pick up some dice back from death attribute, or shadow/high, or shadow/heavens. Heavens might be nice for any warmachine heavy army and shadow could help with low I/high T armies - thinking OKs.

Edit: Shadow/life is intriguing. without throne of vines or regrowth it can be a disappointing lore. I'd be interested to see it play tested.
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1375 Post by rusty »

I like the new dragonlord, very dynamic.

As for the army list. I think the Omsk comp is halfbaked. They have cut almost all army-spesific comp. Meaning the worst of DE and LZ armies have free reign. An all etheral list is also very likely. That one at least, you will destroy.

You could use book of hoeth, but I find the list you've made a lot more Interesting. The concept is good. It should be able to control the movement phase. You probably have some bad matchups, although who I can't say atm. A final problem is that you're spending points on mages that might be wasted, if you only need one mage.

I would consider Death lore if your mage is on the front line. If she's hiding with archers, Shadow+life is good. Read the latest FAQ on death lore.

Looking forward to see how it goes :)
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1376 Post by Francis »

I am worried about the number of combat units you field. Only two might hurt you, although I guess the archers can do the job when mindrazored, providing you get the spell off ofc. The comp looks boring and a bit off in my mind, but then again I never liked much comp at any rate. Which city are you playing in?

PS: love the dragon and rider, very good job.
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1377 Post by Curu Olannon »

@Teledor - will see what I end up with. Death is definitely a consideration!

@rusty - didn't consider that. Now that you mention it, I can name half a dozen combinations off the top of my head which I haven't accounted for. Will re-consider and give rationale soon.

@Francis - agreed, 2 is scary few. I think comp is a good idea, but I don't think this is a good one as there are too many hugely overpowered combinations left, because of the lack of race-specific bans. I don't get to take 30 Lions with full command, yet Ogres can take the super-nasty gutstar, fully tooled up?
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1378 Post by Curu Olannon »

Ok, so the problems are roughly:

- Ogres get to play however they want
- Dark Elves can throw endless stuff at me
- Lizardmen will have a field day with their Slanns, Skinks and Salamanders

This applies in addition to the normal weaknesses we have as High Elves. I see no other viable option (well, save for the Coven) but to go with Death here. I also think I need a more combined-arms approach, so I'm back to scratch. The way I see it now, Shadow is really nice but so is death. I'm not sure I can afford losing Life though, but I'm fairly certain that this is a better approach than not taking Death, given the threats above.

The reasons are fairly obvious. PS is deadly and blocking, sniper spells are great vs pendant and characters in general and soulblight is devastating. The more I think about it, the more I think death + shadow is the way to go: regardless of which phase the game is in, the two lores combined possess a plethora of spells which should be high-priority dispels.

I'll get around to writing another draft later tonight :)
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1379 Post by John Rainbow »

I prefer the idea of a Shadow/Death setup even if it is very Nagarythe :)

I have a few issues with Life magic in general anyway:
1. It is without doubt the most predictable lore in the game
2. If you don't get the spells you want (Throne?) you are generally in trouble
3. It doesn't help Elves too much, you just die more slowly and we aren't usually interested in attrition battles anyway

I was going to write something clever but got sidetracked by work... to be continued when I remember what it was :?
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Re: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500pts Army Blog

#1380 Post by Curu Olannon »

@John Rainbow - I agree with your assessment. However, Dweller's and extra toughness is always nice. I think the main problem here is the 5 dice cap, which really tips it in the favour of Death.

New list draft:

Archmage Shadow Wand - 270
Archmage Death AC - 300
BSB GW DA BotWD - 204

Characters: 804

Archers!

Core: 600

21 WL, FC, AoL, BoS - 410
14 SM, musi - 215
14 SM, musi - 215
1 Tiranoc Chariot - 85

Special: 840

2 Eagles - 100

Rare - 100

= 2399

More units, more movement, more bodies, less gadgets, more offensive magic.

I think the Wand is vital here. Miasma, Enfeebling and Withering are almost always useful, regardless of the state of the game. Miasma arguably doubly so because of the Lore of Death, but Withering in particular because it makes the Archers devastating and the Swordmasters capable of chopping up almost everything. Death on the other hand almost only contributes with short-ranged damage (save for Soulblight and of course D&D), but exactly what spells I get here does not matter as much, in my opinion. Shadow is the primary lore, around which Death helps against my weaknesses.

I think this setup counters the worst armies quite well. One could argue that a lvl 2 with Seerstaff (Miasma, Withering) would be a good trade here, allowing me to field more boots on the table. Perhaps, but both Pit and Mindrazor (despite a S7 cap) can be game-breaking as well.

Thoughts?
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::
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