Vs. Vampire Counts (2500)

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WillScarlet
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Vs. Vampire Counts (2500)

#1 Post by WillScarlet »

Just played a game against my buddy, at 2,500 points. He conceded at turn 4, at which he only had a couple units of zombies left. I only lost a couple units, so I score a massacre.

The Lists:
High Elves
Teclis (with Seaguard, Fire magic)
BSB (Great weapon, 2+ armor save, 5+ ward) with Seaguard
Lvl.2 (Anullian Crystal) (Shield of Saphery & Flames of Phoenix) Seaguard as well

28 Lothern Seaguard, FC, Shields
10 Archers
10 Archers

14 Swordmasters, FC, Banner of Sorcery, Amulet of Light
14 Swordmasters, FC, Banner of Eternal Flame
5 Dragon Princes, musician
10 White Lions

1 RBT
2 Great Eagles

Vampire Counts:
Count Mannfred (he gave him a 5+ ward save) with the Graveguard
Vampire Hero (with Skeletons #2)
Necromancer (skeletons #2)

40 Skeletons w/ spears, shield, FC
40 Skeletons w/ spears, shield, FC
20 Zombies
20 Zombies

16 Graveguard, HW and shield, Drakenhof banner (4+ regen)
6 Spirit host bases
7 Bloodknights
1 corpse cart
1 vargulf

Deployment goes as pictured. The light brown circles were mountains (blocked line of sight, impassable) and the dark brown was a forest.

Image

On a side note: I see a lot of battle reports that are done very well, and I was wondering what programs are being used to create the pictures? I used microsoft paint for this one, but I wish I had something better/easier.


The game was pretty fast, and there was nothing out of the ordinary, so I'll just summarize.

I won the first turn; White lions and Swordmasters move up on the left. Center Swordmasters move up, Lothern seaguard move into the gap between both Archer units. Dragon princes do a swift reform and head below the mountain, in order to reposition. Eagles and archers remain stationary. Magic= 1 scattered flamestorm and 1 bigger fireball, resulting in 4 dead graveguard (I rolled like a 6 for my 3d6 hits :? ) Shooting was relatively uneffective (as it was all game), which resulted in a handful of dead skeletons.

His turn everything moves up. He positions his Blood Knights in front of his Grave guard. His magic phase sizzles, only killing a couple seaguard and putting wound on the LVL 2 Mage with Curse of Years (this was the only spell he successfully cast all game that wasn't dispelled)

My turn 2: Swordmasters and WL combo charge Skeletons #1. Swordmasters #2 charge the Bloodknights. All three of these charges were rather lucky, me needing to roll at least the average for all of them. Eagles move behind the zombies and graveguard. Magic phase resulted only in Flaming Sword of Rhuin being cast on the Swordmasters #2. Shooting resulted in a few more dead skeles. Combat: White Lion/Swordmaster combo wipes the Skeleton #1 (My combat resolution came up to exactly the amount of skeles he had left :D ). Both the WL and the SM reform to face towards the center of the battlefield. Swordmasters #2 wipe the Bloodknights (he didn't get any attacks back :D ) and overran into the graveguard.

His turn 2: Skeletons #2 charge the Swordmasters #1. His corpse cart is just barely out of line of sight for charging my Swordmasters #2 :D . Vargulf moves up, trying to outflank me below the mountain. Spirit Host follows the Vargulf with the same idea. Zombies reform to try and see the eagle behind them. His magic phase produces nothing.
Swordmasters #1 fail there fear check, and as a result only kill 10 or so skeletons. I win the combat by a couple points, but the swordmasters are reduced down to about half. Swordmasters #2 wipe out the Grave Guard (helped by combat resolution) but also take 5-6 casulties. Mannfred is left alone, and takes 1 wound from combat resolution.

My Turn 3: White lions flank charge Skeletons #2. Lothern seaguard reform and move below Archers #2 in order to challenge the Vargulf and Spirit Host. BSB hops out of the Seaguard and joins Archers #1. Eagle #1 gets a rear charge on Mannfred. Eagle #2 moves to dodge the zombies. Dragon Princes move up the left side in order to eventually help out against Skeletons #2. In the magic phase I fail to cast bigger fire ball with Teclis, and he dispels my attempt at flames of the phoenix. Shooting was again a disapointment. In close combat, Swordmasters #1 fail their fear check. I wipe out a good chunk of skeletons, but in the end lose all of the Swordmasters. The white lions contribute, and hold the skeletons who at the end of combat reform to face the WL. Swordmasters #2 also fail their fear check :( and fail to wound Mannfred. The eagle fails as well. Mannfred kills a few swordmasters, but I win combat by 1 and take another wound off Mannfred (only 3 more wounds left :D )

His turn 3: Vargulf fails a charge against the Lothern Seaguard. Spirit host moves in front of the slow Vargulf. Zombies spin in circles trying to catch the pretty bird. His magic phase is again uneventful. Both the White lions and the remaining Swordmasters fail their fear checks :x I kill Mannfred with combat resolution :D , and the Swordmasters and the Eagle reform to face the corpse cart. White lions are only able to kill a couple skeletons (I directed a lot of attacks against his vampire, but failed to touch him :? ) The white lions are reduced to 2 models, but hold because of being stubborn.

My Turn 4: My opponent is very disgruntled at this point, as it's the first time he's lost Mannfred in a game. I charge Archers #1 (which are accompanied by the BSB) into the rear of Skeletons #2. Swordmasters and Eagle #1 charge the corpse cart. Lothern Seaguard charge the Spirit Host. In the magic phase I put flaming sword of Rhuin and cascading fire cloak on the seaguard. In close combat I wipe the spirit host and overrun into the vargulf. The swordmasters and eagle kill the corpse cart easily. The White lions are wiped out, but with the archers and BSB they are able to greatly reduce the Skeletons #2. I win combat and he reforms to face my Archers #1.

His turn 4: Not much for him to do at this point. I forgot to mention earlier that his units without vampire characters started to crumble when Mannfred died. This resulted in the zombies reduced to 5-10 models each unit. He used his magic phase to dispel cascading fire cloak, but was unable to cast any other spells. In close combat the BSB and the archers were able to wipe the Skeletons #2 (the BSB single handedly killed the vampire, who didn't even get to strike back =D> ) I wiped the vargulf easily, and as he only had a couple zombies left, he conceded the game.

I felt that my refused-flank deployment sealed the game for me. His Spirit Hosts and Zombies were essentially left out of the game. A few lucky charges for me also sealed the deal with some stong combat phases.

Magic was relatively ineffective this game, for both of us. I was able to IF a couple spells each turn, but nothing super deadly. Mostly I would use Flaming Sword to cancel Regen and make my attacks magical. The anullian crystal and Teclis insured that I didn't have to worry much about his magic phase.

Shooting was a total waste for me this game. Although the archers made up their cost with their heroic charge late in the game, they did little besides that. I think the points would have been better invested in a block of spearmen. I'm not even going to mention the Bolt thrower #-o

I've played my opponent many times, and usually our lists are very similar to the ones used today. He was definitely caught off guard by my refused flank, and I think this cost him the game. Anyways, another victory for the High Elves!
"On Friday night, a comedian died in New York".
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Elessehta of Yvresse
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Re: Vs. Vampire Counts (2500)

#2 Post by Elessehta of Yvresse »

Nice work Will, download Battle Chronicler, have a play around in it it's awesome!
[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34506][i]Lord Elessehta Silverbough of Ar Yvrellion, Ruler of Athel Anarhain, Prince of the Yvressi.[/i][/url]
[quote="Narrin’Tim"]These may be the last days of the Asur, but if we are to leave this world let us do it as the heroes of old, sword raised against evil![/quote]
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Re: Vs. Vampire Counts (2500)

#3 Post by Nicene »

Haha, that's some pretty disgusting magic defense you brought to the table. Congrats on the win.
[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=61399]my MSU army list/battle reports[/url]

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Re: Vs. Vampire Counts (2500)

#4 Post by dabber »

WillScarlet wrote:My Turn 4: My opponent is very disgruntled at this point, as it's the first time he's lost Mannfred in a game.
This line surprises me more than anything else. With that list, how is he not losing Manfred a lot? The zombies shouldn't be able to hold anything, the skeletons won't kill much, and the Grave Guard are way too small. The Blood Knights can kill small units, but any big unit with hitting power will wipe them out.


By the way, Grave Guard cannot take the Regen Banner themselves. He has to have a BSB character in there with the Banner. He probably had a Wight King, but I'm surprised that BSB didn't do anything worth mentioning.
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Re: Vs. Vampire Counts (2500)

#5 Post by Griffon Prince »

He gave Mannfred a ward? I think he is only allowed to choose two arcane items.
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Re: Vs. Vampire Counts (2500)

#6 Post by dabber »

Griffon Prince wrote:He gave Mannfred a ward? I think he is only allowed to choose two arcane items.
Good point. There is no way for Mannfred to have a ward save.
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WillScarlet
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Re: Vs. Vampire Counts (2500)

#7 Post by WillScarlet »

@dabber When we do play lists of about this size, he has been very lucky to keep Mannfred alive. This is because a. he's been giving him ward saves illegally :x (thanks for pointing that out, i'll have to remind him next game) b. he's given him an item that makes him ethereal (again illegal) and joined him into a big block of ghosts or c. just gotten lucky and kept him alive naturally.

In larger games I believe he's taken the Wight King BSB, but I guess he didn't realize it was a necessity for using the Drakenhof banner. I've found ways to counter it (banner of eternal flame), so I never put too much thought into the legality of it.

We've been playing games several times a month, for the past 6 months or so. 6 months ago I was getting back into the hobby after a hiatus since 6th edition. He's been a hobbyist since 6 edition, but has hardly played any games, so doesn't have a real handle on the rules. Bottom line is that we are nowhere near experts on the rules, both in the BRB and in our respective Army books. The more games we play, the better we are getting at the rules. And every successive game we play it seems like I win by a better margin :P

I hate being the rule nazi and "kindly reminding him" that a very essential chunk of his list was set up illegally. What makes it even worse is reminding him of this after I just massacred him. I'm going to find the easiest way possible to do this. Maybe suggest swapping armies for a game, and then pointing out everything I'd found that was wrong.

He also plays Wood Elves, but he is very fair with them, and knows their rules well. He's starting a Dark Elf army soon, and I need to keep my eyes peeled for possible deadly/illegal combinations. Any ideas of something he might misinterpret that I can look out for? I want him to start the army with the right ideas.
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Re: Vs. Vampire Counts (2500)

#8 Post by dabber »

WillScarlet wrote:He's starting a Dark Elf army soon, and I need to keep my eyes peeled for possible deadly/illegal combinations. Any ideas of something he might misinterpret that I can look out for?
The broken DE combo's are actually legal!!! When you meet the Dreadlord with 1+ armour, effectively 2+ ward, stubborn, and other stuff, he isn't cheating.


VC are extremely pigeonholed by 8th. They have just one build that really works (ghouls, bunker for vampire lord, gw grave guard horde, random rares) and variations from that drop in effectiveness very very fast. Your enemy's list varied from that a lot.
Additionally, while you made Teclis weaker by taking Lore of Fire, he is still upgrades your army more than anything else you could spend those points on.
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WillScarlet
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Re: Vs. Vampire Counts (2500)

#9 Post by WillScarlet »

Wow. I'm not looking forward to those Dark Elves. I'm sure I'll find a way to counter his cheesines, even if it takes me a game or two to find out.

Yea, I've been experimenting with different lores with Teclis lately. Normally I stick with High Magic/Life/Shadow/Death, but I like to see different lores in action. Fire is fun because of the raw killing power, but it also has some useful little augments. The only thing I found unfortunate is that Cascading Fire Cloak can only be cast on the caster's own unit. In the first couple games against Dark Elves I'll most likely stick with High Magic/Life/Shadow. High Magic because of Flames of the Phoenix should be great against T3 and light armored elves, Vaul's will be very valuable, Fury can snipe Dark Riders and Shades, and Shield will be very handy against repeater crossbows. Life for similar reasons (I see myself using Dwellers a lot :mrgreen: ) Shadow would be useful for lowing the BS of his shooty units, and also lowering the strength/toughness of his combat units. Mindrazor could also be a game changer. Pit of Shades would be next to useless, because of their high initiative.

When I play my first game against Dark Elves I'll be sure to post a battle report, and then hopefully y'all can give me some suggestions.
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Re: Vs. Vampire Counts (2500)

#10 Post by Griffon Prince »

He was putting him in a spirit host unit? Even ethereal vampires, the wraith hero and the banshee hero can't join spirit host units because they are swarms.
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Re: Vs. Vampire Counts (2500)

#11 Post by WillScarlet »

Yea, he did that one time, but with Vlad von Carstein. That was one of our very first games, and we didn't know the specific rules for swarms or any of that. It was so gay, and double illegal, because Vlad isn't allowed any extra equipment of any kind. I still ended up killing him though, but of course he got back up because of the Carstein ring :x
"On Friday night, a comedian died in New York".
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