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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:06 pm 
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Southern Sentinel
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I can't quite describe it but there is something really cool about these models. It is quite possible I am just getting old as I keep getting back to "good old days" way too often :mrgreen:

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High Elves MSU - Observations

Rabidnid wrote:
Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:47 am 
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Auctor Aeternitatum
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That's because they are very cool. :) The older models feel more elven in my mind. They are more slender, more flexible then some of the modern ones, which are just beefy humans with gems stuck on.

Not having everything painted isn't a shame. I still have to paint almost half the models I have. It's somehow easier to gather the models then to get them all painted. And I would love to have some 2nd edition models lying around waiting for some paint (so if you ever want to get rid of them...).

Rod

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:09 pm 
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Thanks guys.

Prince of Spires wrote:
The older models feel more elven in my mind. They are more slender, more flexible then some of the modern ones, which are just beefy humans with gems stuck on.

That's almost exactly what an old friend of mine (not an elf player) said when he first saw the 4th edition Jes Goodwin High Elves in the early 90's. "They're very nice humans". The range was technically excellent but substantially bigger.

Prince of Spires wrote:
Not having everything painted isn't a shame. I still have to paint almost half the models I have. It's somehow easier to gather the models then to get them all painted. And I would love to have some 2nd edition models lying around waiting for some paint (so if you ever want to get rid of them...).

I have a lot of painted armies but we all acquire stuff that never quite fits in I think. I actually had most of my HE models for at least 15 years before doing the army! If I find the 2nd edition stuff I will bear you in mind Rod!

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Dragon Princes. Both these models and the Helms were sold singly in blisters. The armoured horses here came with character models, of which the champion was one. He's wearing a circlet over his helmet! I like them because they are remeniscent of Roman cataphracts. Historically, cataphract horses would be armoured in scale or lamellar because chainmail was simply too heavy but hey, Ithilmar Barding! The shields are from Rohan Royal Guard, I had to cut them from the models. The closest guy has a metal spear from an elf on foot, like the Helms. The guy on the far end was originally the same but his spear broke, so I replaced it with the plastic one that the models originally came with. I had to glue a horn to the musician and model his hand with putty. The standard top is a Roman Draco (windsock type) by Miniature Figurines. Champion's sword was a Greatsword from a wardancer, inspired by a picture of a mounted Tyrion with a huge sword in the 5th edition army book.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 10:54 pm 
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Some thoughts I posted up on PadForce's thread:

viewtopic.php?f=79&t=69606


Scroll, Book and Crystal

If you have only one caster, Dispel Scroll is kind of the default choice. It lets you shut down any single spell you choose because IF is now scrollable. It can be taken on a Hero level caster and on a Lord caster 35pts leaves room for some fighting kit on a Loremaster or a 4+ save on an Archmage. Crystal is an alternative if your guy is a Lord. It limits you to a 5+ Ward on an Archmage, so he would probably be kept back in a bunker. On a Loremaster it's problematic because ideally you want more than 30pts for other magic items. The best I can see currently is Mithril Mail for a 2+ AS. With his inherant 6+ Ward and optional -1 to be hit it's not hopeless but remains a bit thin I feel.

The Crystal is clearly powerful. I'm surprised it made it into 9th Age but it is 70pts. Your opponent will get fewer spells through, no danger. But it's not foolproof. Say you have a 7 v 5 phase which becomes 6 v 6. He throws three dice at a spell, say he needs a 7, he probably gets it. If we throw three we have roughly a 50% chance of stopping it. But if we want to be pretty sure of stopping it we need to throw more, which means he's probably getting his second spell off. The good thing is, we can be pretty sure of stopping a 5-diced spell with our 6. But if the phase is 5 v 5 for example, that's not the case. It can also be complicated by the ability of some armies to boost their magic offense or simply wild dice rolls. The flipside of this is that you'll have some games where the enemy gets virtually nothing through.

The question then is, what do you take if you have two casters? I feel one item has to be Dispel Scroll, Crystal plus Book of Meladys improves your magic generally but you still lack the ability to stop the single spell of your choice. Scroll plus Crystal is rock-solid but does nothing to boost offense. The Book is attractive because it helps both casting and dispelling. Say you need to roll a 10 to cast and get a 9. Book is great because it probably lets you avoid wasting those dice. Turning a fail into a cast forces the enemy to consider dispelling. Otherwise he probably stops the rest of your phase quite easily. It also helps a lot with a Lore like High Magic with spells like Cataclysm for example. A 14 to cast means an Archmage needs a 12 to get it off. 4-dicing it is risky unless you have the Book, in which case it's a safer bet.

It comes down to style I think. Crystal has more raw power (the enemy will get fewer spells off), Scroll and Book are precision tools. They let you put your finger on a tipping point and change the outcome.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:54 am 
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You didn't mention Book + Scroll. I think I'd choose that for a duo. As amazing as the Crystal is, I think its new point cost is prohibitive. Not that 70 is too much more than 40 (the old cost), but rather that it requires a lord to carry it. . .

I used to be pretty happy to include a level 2 Mage with Crystal for 175 points in my Star Dragon lists, as the solo wizard. Now I'd be getting a "Master" level Archmage for 235. That's only 60 more points, and I get an extra spell, relatively better casting power, and another wound. However, he won't fit in the Lords category if I'm also running Ancient Dragon.

This is a very tough decision! We are flush with solid defensive magic options.



*** What do you think about the change to Greatbow? Can't really be useful on most of our characters now, I think. But it's even better for a Queen's Companion.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:20 pm 
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Nicene wrote:
You didn't mention Book + Scroll.

Hmm, I thought that was the upshot of my third paragraph Nicene! It's what I ran in the report earlier and what I'll continue to run if I have two Arcane slots. I always want a scroll and Book gives you that edge you need IMHO. The old lvl2 plus Crystal was a decent option, partly because he got Drain Magic for free. The new 35% Lords cap does make a difference.

The Bow change is a disaster for my Prince. He can suck it up and run as is but the loss of two shots is a heavy blow. It makes more sense to drop the Bow and maybe switch to Ogre Sword, 4+ Regen, Talisman of Cenryn. He picks up +1 to hit, Magical Attacks and his armour save goes to 3+ because he can use shield in combat. Losing the Lucky Shield would be a blow though. It's far from ideal.

I agree, if you have the Honour (and are hence on foot), Bow is even better now with the free AP and meshing well with Quick to Fire etc..

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:06 pm 
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Any battles coming soon?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:05 am 
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I wish Nicene.

My family situation means I can't play 2-day events where I'm away the Saturday night. Previously I could reliably find one within striking distance every few months at least. There are plenty of Ninth Age events but just a little too far away. I'm considering an 8th edition tourney in March but I would take my Daemons for that. I'm keeping my eyes open!

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:53 pm 
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Draft 2400 list:

viewtopic.php?f=79&t=69643

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:19 pm 
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White Lions

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Once again, some conversion work here. The back rank are standard third edition elves, though they carry 2-handed swords instead of axes! It just worked out better that way. The cloaks are from the current plastic White Lions, somewhat trimmed. The guys on the end of the front rank were Wardancers, their original weapons cut away and replaced with the scythes from the old Elven Attack Chariot set! I feel these make nice heavy swords, to suit the muscular elves wielding them!

The musician is from the old Eternal Champion range, I believe an Elric. His sword arm was cut away and replaced with one with a horn from the LOTR range, from a Haradrim guy. The standard bearer is again a regular 3rd edition elf, he came with a nice animal skin hood, reminiscent of Roman standard bearers. I had to cut off and re-attach his arms. The standard is Balthazar Gelt's staff! It has a nice Griffon atop which looks very leonine to me. It's small but for a unit this size it works OK. The champion is the only unconverted model, he's the champion from the Scarloc's Wood Elf Archers boxed set.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:59 pm 
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It's a nice unit. Clean painting and a cohesive look for such a group of different miniatures. And they look suitably bad-ass :)

I'm not completely sold on them being White Lion though. In a list with only white lions they'll be fine. But my initial thought on seeing them was 'Swordmasters'. And in a list that contains both types of units it might confuse your opponent.

Rod

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Eirik wrote:
Please try to remember that, no matter how 'official' the source seems, rumours are basically just a dictionary combined with a random number generator

For Nagarythe: Come to the dark side.
PS: Bring cookies!

Check out my plog
Painting progress, done/in progress/in box: 166/18/104


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