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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:54 pm 
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So, I need to find now some proper models to get 2x3 drake riders :lol: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:59 pm 
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Let me know about your ideas! I am looking for these too, even if for the sake of modelling project.

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Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:30 am 
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For a while I've had two problems:

Old metal Silver Helm / Melnibonean cavalry riders with no horses.
Reaper Bones dragons with no purpose

This thread just made me realise I have the solution to both these problems already! :D

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:25 am 
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Hi Mentheus!

Great to know! I hope you will show us the pictures at some stage! :)

Cheers!

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Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:19 pm 
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With the recent release of the Beta version of 9th Age it was natural that I also started thinking about adapting my army list to this system. I must say I feel excited as I didn't for long time ago. I have two games I would like to follow and develop my experiences in these. Time as always is an issue but I hope I will be able to find enough of it to play games in 9th Age and in KoW regularly. Both systems appeal to me greatly.

9th Age due to its continuation of Warhammer, great effort from players and the feeling of participating in something truly unique. Kings of War because of its elegant rules, new challenge in the shape of learning new game and hopefully developing my own way of playing in it.

I try to look at 9th Age as a combination of 3 major components: Core Rules, Magic and Army List. Each part was addressed by the Rules-Team and each will be further developed. I believe that no army list can be discussed without a context of core rules and new magic but for time being I will simply look at my current army list and how it transfers to the new system. Then I will discuss potential steps I am currently considering for 9th Age.

Below is the old army list with the use of new rules:

Outcasts - Army List

Larry - Master of the Paths (210), Earthing Wand (25), Armor of Fortune (30), Obsidian Rock (30) - 295

Cheaper than his predecessor, his equipment is also a little less expensive. I absolutely love his versatility and I think he will do great with new Paths of Magic. I just need to learn the new signature spells and their attributes. However, I believe he has some new great potential of supporting his units. Think about 5+ Regeneration in 12" or +1 armor save from Path of Alchemy.

His combat capabilities with his designated Longsword are also better since now he has +1 to hit with his attacks. That means he will hit majority of troops on 2+ and the rest on 3+. On the other hand, -1 to hit from Parry rule may also be very handy. He is not your ultimate combat character but I think these rules would allow him to go into combat against rank and file, add a few casualties and do not get killed in the process.

Bob the Battle Standard Bearer (95), Griffon (200), Dragon Armor (14), Lance (4), Talisman of Supreme Shielding (50), Lucky Shield (5) – 370

More expensive thanks to the fact that Griffon costs 50 points more than before. I presume it is because it is a new type of mount and that such characters is probably more durable than he used to be. He is getting quite expensive now but I will use him and see how he would work now. In general, I like that new rule but I might need to re-think his equipment. Also because I can't give the upgrade to the griffon so that it will not hit as often as before with 8th edition ASF.

Change of the Equipment is also necessary because I have 55 points of magic items that is not legal.

15 Spearelves, Heavy Armor, Bows, Full Command - 210

With Spears having a Killing Blow rule against certain enemies and Heavy armor for no cost increase I think it is a good deal. They have "only" +1 to hit and striking at initiative order but I really like the unit now and I really hope I will be able to use them well again as a flexible regiment. What is more I will have a motivation to finally paint these IoB models that waited so many years for it!

There is also an option for magic banner which I am not sure yet how to use but I am glad it is here.

15 Archers, Full Command - 180

Same cost but with Light Armor that may not look as much but at least will agree with the look of the models! My current decision is split between two options, taking 15 Sea Guard instead for more redundancy and forcing me to play more aggressively or keeping the archers as they are for more versatility of the shooting phase and the ability to have extra range over some enemies.

5 Light Cavalry, Bows, Light Lances - 90
5 Light Cavalry, Bows, Light Lances – 90

Cheaper than before but with no option for command group at all. That leaves 30 points to spend on core which I can achieve by increasing the number of Archers to 18, taking Spearelves with bows instead of Archers, or getting some magical banners for the infantry.

Essentially, however, the core stay the same in their roles but get a little better (mainly Spearelves) and cheaper.

5 Knights of the Dragon Realm (150), Musician (10), Banner of Fire (10) - 170
5 Knights of the Dragon Realm (150), Musician (10) - 160

1 point increase per model but S4 basic meaning S6 on the charge. That's big improvement. With new Supernatural reflexes rule they don't get re-rolls but will hit their enemies on 2/3+ which is still great.

10 Swordmasters (130), Champion (10), Musician (10) - 150
10 Swordmasters (130), Champion (10), Musician (10) - 150

Swordmasters benefit from new changes and I think they are better in combat now. They hit at initiative order (kind of the same) as their longsword requires two hands but since it is not great weapon they gain +1 to hit. With WS6 they will hit on 2+ against many rank and file. In addition, with their parry rule enemies will need 5+ to hit them back. It does not mean they are invincible but it may be just what they need. I think they were great before just other elites where more survivable. Swordmasters are still fragile but I like them even more now.

10 Lion Guard (130), Banner (10), Musician (10) – 150

In general not much changed. However, they are now Stubborn only if there is a character with them. They seem to lose their Forest Strider rule too and I think there will be less reason for me to keep them now. I liked their Stubbornness and with that kind of gone I may look for other options to explore now.

Coastal Guard Reaper - 80
Coastal Guard Reaper - 80

These are now special and more expensive than in 8th edition but still good I think. You can't have more than 3 in the regular army which is not a problem for me at all.

Great Eagle - 50
Great Eagle - 50

I believe nothing changed in the case of the eagles. I will just need to finally re-base them for 50x50 mm bases as I have the old metal models that came with 40x40mm base.

8 Queen's Guard – 112

They lost their special rules in exchange for Master Archers meaning they have access to 5 types of magical arrows. It remains to be seen if that means they can have all 5 each game and decide which one to use each magic phase but the wording suggests to. If that is the case then they will be very versatile unit indeed.

They also have command group options and I will definitely upgrade them with Musicians for that much needed Swift Reform.

In total my current army comes to 2417 points which means I need to cut 17 points from somewhere. Since I cannot have Lucky Shield I can get rid of it and replace it with mundane one for 2 points. That requires 14 points save which I can get by reducing Queen's Guard to 7. Not too bad but not good either. If I want a musician they will have to go down to 6. Would be ok if I had 2 units like that.

My main change would be to replace Lions with Protectors of the Flame. They have effective S5 but have built in 4++ ward that combines nicely with Larry's MR(2). They cause Fear that is great now with -1Ld penalty. They can actually get into combat together with other regiments and be designated bodyguards for the general of the army. I would take at least 9 with full command. Why only 9? Because if I get rid of Lions and 1 great eagle I would have enough points for a musician for Queen's Guard too.

But these are just first ideas. I will see what I can come up with in the following days and hopefully will be able to playtest it soon.

Cheers!

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Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:17 pm 
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Get more Queen's Guard, they're just so versatile now. :D Protectors of the Flame would be a nice addition too, perhaps as a replacement for Lion Guard or even a unit of Sword Masters (plus you should use them now before they go back to S4. :P I was just warming to the idea of units of 15 S5 4+ ward troops with the new Fear rule :( ).

The new deployment rules allowing you to place as many units as you like as one drop really gives your army an interesting option in deployment. It could be advantageous to place your whole army after only a few drops, given the flexibility which MSU gives you in movement. Or maybe you could split your army into a few groups, deploying all the shooting units together and then maybe deploying two entire wings. I think it'll be important with your army to get a good number of drops down quickly, in case your opponent then decides to place his entire army and get a huge advantage when rolling for the first turn.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:48 pm 
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I absolutely love new Queen's Guard even if the ladies would need to pick just one type of magic arrows before the battle :) Would love to have 2 x 10 with musicians :D

If I decided to take Protectors of the Flame that would be instead of Lion Guard I am afraid. I really like Swordmasters, no matter what they are going to do with them :-P While with PoF I would also have the opportunity to paint these fantastic 5th edition models. Yet again I find that if only the standard had been 2500 and not 2400 I would be so much happier! But I think with some savings here and there I might get what I want.

I know that this S4 for PoF is unfortunately a typo. Nevertheless I wanted to test designated Guard unit for the Master of Paths and with changes to special rules I believe it is a good time to do so.

I really need to re-think these new deployment rules for sure. I like the new dimension they provide. I definitely did it wrong in my last game (see the Battle report section) but I can see how it can be used to advantage. In fact, I can envision the situation where going second will be desirable.

I wonder how you would adapt to new age, looking forward to some army blog entry :)

Cheers!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:55 pm 
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The new mount rules make a chariot a good choice now, so I'll be going back to the (hawk!) chariot prince. More about that soon. ;)

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 3:08 pm 
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hi SM,

quick question, do swordmasters still have parry or was it updated out, cant spot it?

also is bob now T5 as he is monstrous cav? due to griffon being a monstrous beast. are you also playing it that he gets mounts protection?

thanks

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:00 pm 
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@ Elithamr

So, what about that Chariot Prince? :)

@ sparkytrypod

No, there is no more parry for Swordmasters. They do have +1 to hit due to supernatural reflexes though.

Yes, Bob is T5 now with 4W but does not benefit from Monstrous Protection (+1 to armor save thanks to being mounted) because griffons are large targets and these do not give that bonus.

Cheers!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:37 pm 
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Hello,

I was very enthusiastic about 9th Age project and I hoped it will create a much better Warhammer. Unfortunately, the more I played the more frustrated I become with how the game is changing and I didn't like the direction it is heading. I was very disappointed with the game but also with the way the whole project is handled.

It is a sad thing but I concluded that 9th Age is not the game I want to play anymore. I wish the creators and supporters who like the way it evolves all the best and I still hope it will be successful as fan based project.

However, I am now moving on towards Kings of War completely. I realize that the reports from that game are going to be even less popular on the already desolated forum but nevertheless I will post them here too. It would be great if with time there is a group of Ulthuan members that would play KoW and if we could establish an active sub-forum for that system.

SM.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:53 pm 
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While I took a different route with my gaming I agree about 9th age - the constant changes alienate the players and seem to make it more pay-to-win than Warhammer 8th ed ever was. Apart from my High Elves, my armies are rather limited - they've been built with certain army books in mind and don't really play that well when you nerf a particular build into oblivion. Even if you try to catch up (and I prefer to build another army these days) and buy/build/paint the models soon you find yourself behind again.

Some stability is what is needed - you've found that in KoW, me - in 8th (with a few house rules to make it more fun).

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:16 pm 
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It is quite funny but I have never had any problems with 8th edition if I played against people who shared the attitude about the game. Despite the fact that Warhammer was never a perfect system (quite contrary) it was always about the opponent. If you got along with the player even the games against filthy armies were simply challenges and brought a lot of great experience.

Hence, I am not surprised you are perfectly fine with 8th edition as it was. I am sure house rules simply add flavor and spice it up the way you like. Exactly what hobby should be about.

Now 9th edition promised some things but I was disappointing to notice the following:

1. The core rules are as complex as ever - the difference is the "center of gravity" is in a slightly different place. But you still have silly conga lines or corner-to-corner charges.

2. The power creep is still there - people want better and better troops for their chosen factions, armies still don't look like armies but min-maxed forces in the frame of new rules.

3. Project organization and management - it supposed to be community based project but it is already clear that there is absolutely no guarantee that the voice of a regular player will be heard. If the ideas of army book committees are neglected and there is no communication between teams then what is the chance for a person who is not in the inner circle to get his idea through?

I will probably check what 9th Age become in some time when their first official and full version of the rules and army books are released. But at the moment I can assume it is not going to change much in the frame of above mentioned points.

I still don't know where KoW is going to get me but at least there are some things that I like about the system. Core rules are simpler and easier to use so I can spend my time devising tactics rather than constantly checking the rulebook. And often finding that I made a wrong decision because the rule is different than it used to be.

Armies look like armies, there are no silly rules abuse at the moment (might happen in time thanks to great efforts of ex-WHFB players trying to find loopholes) and even the toughest army lists still seem to need to be led well to be successful.

As to the system management it seems that despite the fact it is relatively young it does have that degree of stability that allows to play and learn the game without the fear that something has changed and you haven't noticed.

Did you consider trying it RE. Lee? I didn't like my first 2 games as I had no idea what I am doing but then it somehow clicked and while I have lots to learn at least I think I am doing ok and I enjoy the experience.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:58 pm 
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Some very good points here. I'm playing 8th at the moment and ideally would stick to that, it's possible. But I suspect that 9th Age will supplant it eventually in England, so that's likely what I'll end up playing. There just won't be enough KoW games within travelling distance of me. I've deliberately tried not to get involved in contributing to the 9th Age feedback. I'd rather they just crystallise a ruleset that can be played for a couple of years without major changes. I don't expect it to be any better or worse than 8th edition in the broad scheme of things.

Good luck with KoW SM and I hope you can find support for it.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:20 pm 
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Thanks SA!

I will keep posting the reports as usual. It is thanks to yours and Jimmy's encouragements that I am going to do that on Ulthuan too. At the moment I am playing exclusively on UB but as soon as I get back to Oz I think I will have opponents there. There were a few events recently that attracted some nice number of players. Also those who quit warhammer at the beginning of 8th edition.

I wonder if 8th edition survives in a same way as Blood Bowl or Epic? I would not mind to be honest.

Cheers!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:05 pm 
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I haven't tried KoW, though I've rushed through the rulebook a couple months ago. Looks like a solid system, though a bit simplified. I guess I'm just too much of a Warhammer fanboy to get into it :lol: The mechanics of a game don't matter to me that much - its the background that gets me. I'd be probably playing Age of Sigmar if it took place in the Old World! If I were to switch to a new setting it would probably be historicals (would American Civil War suprise you?).

Non of that is likely though. With a baby due for January, I'll probably get to play next to nothing in the near future. Maybe Jaipur on Board Game Arena? :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:32 pm 
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Yes, background was actually what hooked me immediately for Warhammer all these years ago. I still have some old army books and codices just for that rare chance I would like to come back and read these cool stories.

It took them years to develop that world with all its details as well as mysteries and unfinished ideas. It is then understandable that you might not want to look for something new or that the other system may look too simple, not developed enough etc.

Having said that I was really surprised when I listened to the recent Counter Charge podcast about the newest supplement for KoW called Uncharted Empires. It is basically a new book with 9 new armies, some of which have relatively direct comparison to those from WHFB world. However, what really surprised me in a positive way that they put a lot of thought into these short, up to 4 pages decriptions of new factions. What is more, the armies that technically look like they were simply created to allow ex-WHFB players to use their collections are much more than that. In fact, they had some really cool ideas about these.

Would that develop in a similarly rich but unique and independent world? I hope so. It would, unfortunately, take some time and I guess we are quite spoiled after so many years with Warhammer.

Time was always a luxury and a baby will definitely absorb almost all your time. But then there are many dads among us and they somehow find time to play and even introduce their kids to the hobby eventually. So maybe you will do that too! All the best anyway!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:08 pm 
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There is a Warhammer 8.5 group omn Facebook with a rulebook with very limited changes. The guy running it has been revising the armybooks as well.

I am als very fond of the warhammer Armies Project (http://warhammerarmiesproject.blogspot.se/) . The man behind it also bringing the books in line with his own long running unofficial project.

All kinds of ways to keep playng Warhammer. I have no qualms about reorganizing my units into KoW units, so inbetween the historics I may very well pick up the rulebook when around me the game is played.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:50 pm 
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Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
as I get back to Oz I think I will have opponents there.

Sounds promising.

RE.Lee wrote:
(would American Civil War suprise you?)

Remember the classic Sci-fi RPG Traveller? I've always wondered if it was named after the General's horse!

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
a baby will definitely absorb almost all your time.

It hits like a sledgehammer!

:)

Like Arnie though, you'll be back!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:22 am 
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Hi guys,

Thanks a lot for feedback!

@ Aerendar Valandil

Do you know who is the guy who is doing Warhammer 8.5? I know about one player from Australia but it is very possible they do it without knowing about each other.

Warhammer Armies project is amazing and it just shows that you don't need the company to be an overseer to create something fantastic. That was my hope for 9th Age but it seems they created their own "corporation" :)

It is thus quite possible that I might play occasional Warhammer game in the future. I have the miniatures and the rules so why not? :)

@ Spell Archer

Yes, I am really looking forward to it as KoW enthusiasts in Oz are really determined to build a thriving community and it seems they have some early successes already.

Ha! I missed the part about Civil War! Yes, Mr. Lee :-P, I am kind of surprised :D

It reminded me about some topic long time ago where wargamer dads shared their ideas on how to do hobby while babysitting their kids. Obviously, they wanted to include their children in their activities because they could have an eye on them but also do something together. It was very entertaining read :)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:43 pm 
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I think I need to wait till he's five before I open up my own sweat-shop ;) I think thats the time I can get some decent undercoating from the brat ;)

I did look at the Warhammer Armies Project - I like their Skaven book, and will be copying some of their stuff ;)

Meanwhile we've tested Dwarf infantry marching x3 Movement. Worked well, didn't have any negative impact so we'll be sticking to it (I think both 9th and Furion have this rule?). Access to bound spells also improved the game for them. Now we're thinking about how to buff Slayers and replace that silly, silly random hatred rule...

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:06 pm 
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@Swordmaster: The guy at https://www.facebook.com/groups/1483795728606274/?fref=ts is one John Lampe.

I'm pretty sure i'll play some 8.0/WHP or 8.5 in the future. I have a Dogs of War building up (next to my HE), and the Warhammer World is, like all kinds of very old editions, stil very viable for story driven games. Elias Kalderon, whom I know from one of the precursors of this site for more than a dozen years, is one of my few warhammer partners. I hope TK will have a viable book one one of these sites, as it badly needs revision.

@Lee: it's one of the niceties of the stop on WH 8th-minus that you can simply tinker with the rules. For very regular gaming, a very consistent and balanced ruleset is a must. For casual, occasional play, it often isn't tha important.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:05 pm 
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Ha! Small world! I took part in local tournaments organized by John and even played against him once :)

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:25 pm 
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Sad to hear you are not sticking with 9th SM :cry:

I think the new version of high elves lend themselves well to your favoured msu!

I do agree with you in that their has been power creep but most of the worst stuff gets nerfed out after revisions.

After playing a couple of games of 9th myself and my mates are happy with the progress so far.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:22 am 
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Sad to read this, SM, although I do understand you. There's a lot that could be said about the 9th Age, both positive and negative - I know I'll stick to it because no other game attracts me at the moment. And yet, I have the feeling that the project is failing in reaching a number of goals it had (streamlining and simplicity being one).

I'll just comment on two things:
- the changing rules. That's indeed hard to follow, but hopefully it will stabilize in January, when the beta is over. There's also talk of simplified rules, with more limited unit choices, that might be written to help beginners get into the game. I hope those will be simple enough to play with my kids... :wink:
- the community aspect. I believe that's the hardest part of the project... It's good to involve people and listen to suggestions. But failing to filter suggestions leads inevitably to a power creep that the staff can't let happen. It's my belief that a number of writers of the beta army books have failed to see this, and this lead to some books being currently stronger than others (at least, that's what's reported...). I'm curious to see where this leads - but the important aspect is this: how is it possible to listen to interesting suggestions while being flooded with wild ones?

All in all, I'm often deliberately restraining from reading racial subforums, because I get exasperated at the complaining you read there. I stick to what I can do without bias: answer rules questions when I can, translate AB to French, and maintain magic cards. The other stuff... I just can't. :wink:

Best wishes for you KoW adventures! I hope you'll find as much fun and involvement there as you did in all those years. I can't promise I'll comment much on your threads (never been good at that :? ), but I'll probably follow them. I just can't imagine not reading reports from you! :)


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:40 pm 
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Hi guys!

Thanks a lot for comments!

@ sparkytrypod

I am sad about it too but it is hard to support the project when it is not what I thought it is advertised to be.

I know that Axiem, pkng and Eltharis do a great job trying to make HE a unique and competitive army book. I hope they will succeed in making a list that supports variety of styles and that their efforts will not be torpedoed by the last minute changes by Rules Team.

It is great that you and your mates are having fun with 9th Age and I am sure there are many people who actually enjoy the way it shapes up. So I keep fingers crossed it will be a good project in its official version.

@ Iluvatar

I spent last half an hour writing long reply but I guess it was becoming too big.

1. Rules complexity - The amount and frequency of changes will decrease in time. However, the complexity and amount of special rules to learn will not. At least nothing really points towards that direction now.

2. Community aspect - I was more disappointed with the fact that people who are involve army books writing often do not show self-constraint and they are the source of the power creep.

3. Management of the project - that is the main problem to me. This project is not community driven anymore, is highly hierarchical and Rules Team or Executive Board (does that sound like a community project with names like that?) becomes more and more restrictive as what people can and cannot discuss.

I was sad to learn that while Warhammer was killed by the company that created it, the last nail to the coffin was dealt by my fellow players.

Kings of War is a different game and I think it deserves to be treated as unique system that it is. It is way too early for me to say if it really is what the creators advertise. It will take time to learn it because there are now 20 different army lists and if you add allies to the mix then the number of possibilities is huge. Many players are really new, despite experience with other games so I guess it will take time before some kind of stability or balance will be reached here too.

However, between the two games, which I found I need to learn from scratch anyway, there are many more positives for me in KoW and I enjoyed my games far more than these in 9th Age.

I hope my future battle reports will remain entertaining and that I will indeed find KoW to be the game that is easy to learn but hard to master.

Cheers!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:57 pm 
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I wouldn't leave that project so quickly, it"s still under construction, but soon we will see the completed product. I'm excited about that, something new for sure.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:37 pm 
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The fact it is not finished project yet (will it ever be?) has never been an issue for me.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:01 pm 
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From the very begining the deadline was planned on december.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:24 pm 
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But why does it matter?

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