HE MSU in the Old World - Game 1 - 2000 vs Warriors of Chaos - 2024/03/04

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

Thanks SpellArcher! One of the reasons I started that topic is that others can use my mistakes to make better lists for themselves without being beaten so often

As to Reavers I will keep them. I like the idea of light cavalry and they still did great in some battles (particularly against Brets so far). I was just down due to unlucky rolls for their feigned flight in two out of three games against the Ogres and when they fail to rally despite needing a 9 to do so. I believe they can be very useful but it is difficult yet to prove it

[SpellArcher]

One of the reasons I started that topic is that others can use my mistakes to make better lists for themselves without being beaten so often

We live in hope!

Surprised the Reavers did best against Bretonnians. I'd have thought these were too fast to bait safely?

[Gwydion]

[quote="Swordmaster of Hoeth]Hi Gwydion,
Thanks for posting here (and many thanks to SpellArcher who convienced you to add your experience to this topic! )[/quote]

Always a pleasure.

[quote="Swordmaster of Hoeth]Where do you keep him (and other mages for that matter)? I presume you need a character bunker or something like that to be able to hide characters there and be able to influence the game with them anyway. I really like my BSB who fights now but I am still considering other options. I agree it might add nicely to the army while not at the cost of another mage. Would you consider the coven of light with 2 x level 2 and BSB with RGoH? Or do you still need an Archmage to make it work?[/quote]

In my latest army lists I always include Shadow Warriors as bunker unit in case I don´t play against Empire/Dwarfs/Skaven. Those armys tend to play defensively ( ) so my chars stay in the archers. Shadow Warriors offer high mobility with an added (small) protection against missile shooting. Additionaly chars with the Reaver Bow (see below) or the Bow of the Seafarer can still march and shoot. With lore of light I´d go for archmage, mage level 2 and radient gem BSB. I don´t have any experience with only two level 2s, but I think having access to nearly all spells is really important. Especially with the two banishments.

[quote="Swordmaster of Hoeth]Feel free to post an army list you would take instead. A pity ETC didn't go well for you but if you are willing to add some extra ideas based on your most recent experience (good or bad ) then I am sure other members would benefit from your insight too. [/quote]

My recent list is the following:

Archmage, Silver Wand, Loremasters Cloak, Ring of Fury, High Magic
Noble, BSB, Reaver Bow
Mage Level2, Seerstaff, Lore of Fire

26 Archers, Full Command, Banner of eternal Flame
26 Archers, Full Command

15 Swormasters, standart, musician, Gleaming Pendant
15 Swordmaster, champion, musician, Gem of Courage
27 White Lions, Full Command, Amulett of Light, Banner of Sorcery
5 Shadow Warriors

2 Eagles

It has some of the elements of Furions list, but lacks the high strenght missile fire which is important to deal wit greater demons and fighty heroes. I´d instantly swap to the "light coven" if it was allowed, but High Magic /Fire (flaming Sword) is, in my opinion, a strong composition too.


[quote="Swordmaster of Hoeth]That is interesting. Do you have a heavy composition rules at your tournaments? What limits exactly did prevent this particular set up?[/quote]

In Germany we generally prefer comped tournaments (Throne of Skulls is mostly considered "meh"). In this particular case you are not allowed to duplicate a lore if you have the abilty to choose spells. Thus banning the stacking of powerfull spells. Some exceptions are granted (necromancers).

[quote="Swordmaster of Hoeth]Well, as to the army list I guess I need some changes again I have just lost my Archmage last battle due to Hellheart and not having Staff of Solidity I had previous game. I consider this a very useful item for the Archmage and it was painful indeed not to have it.?[/quote]

Normally I always play with the staff of solidity. Very usefull indeed.

[quote="Swordmaster of Hoeth]I could get rid of them and try to find some points for yet another 5 Dragon Princes. What do you think? .[/quote]

I dind´t use Reavers so far, so I have to withhold my opinion.


@ SpellArcher: Many thanks.

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

Surprised the Reavers did best against Bretonnians. I'd have thought these were too fast to bait safely?

The use of Reavers against Brets is in particular against Trebuchets. Since Brets always pray with Vanuard move you can have 12"+18" = 30" move in the frist round. That means you are behind enemy lines and often out of arc of sight of his knights. Then next turn you charge the trebuchet and quickly destroy his artillery. After that they still can be annoying to his other units.

In my latest army lists I always include Shadow Warriors as bunker unit in case I don´t play against Empire/Dwarfs/Skaven. Those armys tend to play defensively ( ) so my chars stay in the archers. Shadow Warriors offer high mobility with an added (small) protection against missile shooting. Additionaly chars with the Reaver Bow (see below) or the Bow of the Seafarer can still march and shoot. With lore of light I´d go for archmage, mage level 2 and radient gem BSB. I don´t have any experience with only two level 2s, but I think having access to nearly all spells is really important. Especially with the two banishments.

It is an interesting of use for Shadow Warriors I also agree that number of spells you have to choose from is important. However, with 2 x level 2 and BSB with RGoH you have 5 spells to choose from. Maybe not that bad? I do not have that much experience with them either, hence the question

My recent list is the following:

Archmage, Silver Wand, Loremasters Cloak, Ring of Fury, High Magic
Noble, BSB, Reaver Bow
Mage Level2, Seerstaff, Lore of Fire

26 Archers, Full Command, Banner of eternal Flame
26 Archers, Full Command

15 Swormasters, standart, musician, Gleaming Pendant
15 Swordmaster, champion, musician, Gem of Courage
27 White Lions, Full Command, Amulett of Light, Banner of Sorcery
5 Shadow Warriors

2 Eagles

It has some of the elements of Furions list, but lacks the high strenght missile fire which is important to deal wit greater demons and fighty heroes. I´d instantly swap to the "light coven" if it was allowed, but High Magic /Fire (flaming Sword) is, in my opinion, a strong composition too.

It seems to me your list has more defensive approach, i.e. you make the enemy come to you by magic and shooting and when he closes enough then you counter-charge with hard hitting infantry. And indeed with Light magic it is even more powerful in terms of being able to inflict casualties from afar.

In Germany we generally prefer comped tournaments (Throne of Skulls is mostly considered "meh"). In this particular case you are not allowed to duplicate a lore if you have the abilty to choose spells. Thus banning the stacking of powerfull spells. Some exceptions are granted (necromancers).

But then you could still use coven of light but with a single banishment, right?

Normally I always play with the staff of solidity. Very usefull indeed.

Indeed it is, just too many of these in the army list and we cannot take them all

I am still thinking about changes to the army list (if any). After initial a little emotional reaction to Ellyrian Reavers performance I will keep them and I hope they will perform better next time If you have any suggestions feel free to post them. At the moment there are two things I need to decide what to do about:

1. Archmage + level 2 or 2 x level 2?
2. 2 small units of Archers or one big regiment?

Cheers!

[Gwydion]

If I´d go with light, I´d take archmage and seerstaff level 2. You really want the second banishment. Otherwise it is much easier for your enemy to prioritise his dispel dice.

As for having one big archer unit or two small units I´d go with the two smaller units, because holding the cavalry hammer back as long as possible seems important to me. And with the spearelves you already have a strong anvil .

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

Greetings!

My army list took yet another little change. I used it in my most recent battle against the OK and if you are interested you can read about it here: HE vs. OK battle 4

As to the army list the main change was for the Prince and the Archmage. The whole list for reference looks like this:

Prince - Dragon Armour, barded Steed, Shield, Great Weapon Helm of Fortune, Radiant Gem of Hoeth, Guardian Phoenix - High Magic
Archmage - level 4, Folariath's Robe, Ring of Corin - Lore of Light
BSB - GW, Armour of Caledor, Dawnstone
Mage - level 2, Annulian Crystal - Lore of Light


30 Spears, FC, Standard of Discipline
13 Archers, Light Armour, Musician
13 Archers, Light Armour, Musician

13 Swordmasters, FC, Ironcurse Icon, Banner of Sorcery
5 Ellyrian Reavers, bows, spears, Musician
5 Dragon princes, Musician
9 Silver Helms, FC

2 x Great Eagle

I wanted to see if a Mage Knight is a good addition to the list and chose Shield of Saphery as 5+ ward save is always good. Provided you can roll these 5+ saves which I failed and because of that I do not know if the Mage Knight is the way to go for me. I didn't take Death because it looked to me I would need 3 dice to cast it successfuly and it could be dispelled anyway. While the Shield was usualy not a top priority to dispel. I was happy with Great Weapon though as it is more versatile option in all-comers list. Now I am conidering coming back to better protection and potion of strength or another trickster shard. Another idea I haven't tried yet is - crown of command. I see this as a good option because I could charge out of the unit with a prince and then keep positioning the unit better (like to the flank of the unit charged by the prince). What do you think?

Archmage took Ring of Corin as a surprise (we do not play fully opened lists) but I didn't have an opportunity to use it this time. However, I consider that even if we haven't played special rules banning all items affecting miscasts. So no hellhearts but no staff of solidity either.

As to the list itself I am still considering the options like big unit of dragon princes, more swordmasters, no reavers (they keep failing panic tests ) etc. I would be grateful for any suggestions/comments/opinions.

Cheers!

[Elessehta of Yvresse]

Your list is character heavy, but they all seem to bring something to the table, maybe try new dice =P

[Curu Olannon]

Prince - Dragon Armour, barded Steed, Shield, Great Weapon Helm of Fortune, Radiant Gem of Hoeth, Guardian Phoenix - High Magic

If you want to have a mounted mage like this, I strongly suggest taking Lore of Beasts as default. Also, drop the GP to include the Corin here, opening up another arcane slot for you

Archmage - level 4, Folariath's Robe, Ring of Corin - Lore of Light

Without Corin, this one can take the crystal...

BSB - GW, Armour of Caledor, Dawnstone

Tried, tested and true BSB.

Mage - level 2, Annulian Crystal - Lore of Light

Now, with an Arcane slot open I'd strongly advice you take the Seerstaff here with another Lore (Shadows, Metal and Life are hot choices in my opinion). Alternatively, you can give him the Jewel and stick with Light.

30 Spears, FC, Standard of Discipline
13 Archers, Light Armour, Musician
13 Archers, Light Armour, Musician

I'd drop the Light Armour and get a few more Spears instead.

13 Swordmasters, FC, Ironcurse Icon, Banner of Sorcery

Not a fan of these given the rest of your setup. They're too easy to annihilate and they're your only real grind-threat, absent a Mindrazor mage. The fact that they carry the BoS AND have a champion upgrade means they have a huge bulls eye painted over them. I'd drop them for Lions, make them PG if you take Mindrazor.

5 Ellyrian Reavers, bows, spears, Musician

Not a fan of these as I've never seen them perform consistently well. Granted, there are situations where they're perfect, but they're too rare and the unit's too expensive, in my opinion. Eagles do their job better, a cheap unit of Dragon Princes can perform kind of the same role.

5 Dragon princes, Musician

I like this.

9 Silver Helms, FC

I'm not convinced of this bus yet, despite Seredain's effort. With your Prince being sub-optimal, damagewise, I'm very unsure of their use. Perhaps beef your Dragon Princes instead, run a Beasts Mage Prince with them and have a bigger PG unit backed up with Mindrazor? Combined with your Lore of Light Archmage, this can present some REALLY nasty threats, making anything from magical defense to movement hard to prioritize for your opponent (with Birona's, Withering, Mindrazor AND Wyssan's at your disposal this can be a real beast - not to mention the corin lurking on the Prince).

2 x Great Eagle

Solid choice.

Overall, I'm liking the direction you're taking but I'd really recommend a bit of a change, focus-wise, as my suggestions point to. Because I can, I feel like posting an example demonstrating the suggested changes:

Archmage lvl 4 Lore of Light Annulian Crystal (generally goes with Archers) - 300
Prince on Barded Steed, Dragon Armour, Helm of Fortune, Gem of Hoeth (Beasts for Wyssans), Ring of Corin, Great Weapon - 285
BSB AoC Dawnstone GW (usually goes with Spears) - 168
Mage lvl 2 Lore of Shadow Seerstaff (Withering, Mindrazor) - 165

34 Spears full command, movement banner - 346
13 Archers, musician - 148
12 Archers, musician - 137

24 Phoenix Guard, full command & banner of sorcery - 440
9 Dragon Princes, full command & flame banner - 330

2 Great Eagles - 100

=====
2419 - leaving you some 80 points to play around with.

What is the focus of this list? 3 strong units all capable of beating just about any foe, backed with the necessary magical support. An alternative is to shave the PG a bit and include a small unit of White Lions (10 should do just fine) to give you a flanking unit who can also act as speedbump/sacrifice etc.

Overall, I feel this is along the lines of what you're trying to accomplish but more effective. You can even include your Reavers by shaving a few points

Hope you find this useful,
~Olannon

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

Your list is character heavy, but they all seem to bring something to the table, maybe try new dice =P

I would love to change the set but I am using Universal Battles so how can I change the virtual dice?

@Curu Olannon
Thanks for ideas, Curu! Let me address them one by one.

Prince - Dragon Armour, barded Steed, Shield, Great Weapon Helm of Fortune, Radiant Gem of Hoeth, Guardian Phoenix - High Magic

If you want to have a mounted mage like this, I strongly suggest taking Lore of Beasts as default. Also, drop the GP to include the Corin here, opening up another arcane slot for you

Mage Knight is an option I consider at the moment but also the one I am not yet sure about. The suggestion for Lore of Beasts is a good one, although casting that spell is not as easy for a level 1 wizard as Shield of Saphery is. Having extra strength helps the unit and the Prince too.

Archmage - level 4, Folariath's Robe, Ring of Corin - Lore of Light

Without Corin, this one can take the crystal..

Ring of Corin was just a curious experiment since we played special tournament rules where items such as Hellheart or Staff of Solidity are not allowed. In other circumstances I fear Ring of Corin has to be left at home although it can be a very good addition, despite being one-use-only item.

Mage - level 2, Annulian Crystal - Lore of Light

Now, with an Arcane slot open I'd strongly advice you take the Seerstaff here with another Lore (Shadows, Metal and Life are hot choices in my opinion). Alternatively, you can give him the Jewel and stick with Light.

Seerstaff is definitely on the list of items to consider and if I were to give Crystal to the Archmage that might be the good option. Although other lores are definitely very useful I am at the moment decided to use both wizards as Light ones.

30 Spears, FC, Standard of Discipline
13 Archers, Light Armour, Musician
13 Archers, Light Armour, Musician

I'd drop the Light Armour and get a few more Spears instead.

Yes, I know people don't like it. My reply (which hasn't changed since the beginning) is that I use metal models from 4th edition which do have light armor and although I understand the merit of having more spears for that cost I am not going to change it. Especially in the case of a tournament where there is a demand for using models with what they really have. Sorry

13 Swordmasters, FC, Ironcurse Icon, Banner of Sorcery

Not a fan of these given the rest of your setup. They're too easy to annihilate and they're your only real grind-threat, absent a Mindrazor mage. The fact that they carry the BoS AND have a champion upgrade means they have a huge bulls eye painted over them. I'd drop them for Lions, make them PG if you take Mindrazor.

I agree they might be too fragile but I should have mentioned two reasons why they need to stay. First, I simply want to use that unit even if I know White Lions and recently Phoenix Guard might be better options. The second reason is more related to models I have at the moment available. While moving I didn't bring entire collection and now I do not have access to WL and PG and at the moment I do not feel like buying new models for these either. I understand that Swordmasters might not be the best option, especially in such expensive build but I need to keep them. I can, however, add a second unit or make existing one bigger as I do have IoB models.

5 Ellyrian Reavers, bows, spears, Musician

Not a fan of these as I've never seen them perform consistently well. Granted, there are situations where they're perfect, but they're too rare and the unit's too expensive, in my opinion. Eagles do their job better, a cheap unit of Dragon Princes can perform kind of the same role.

They are not easy to use and I agree that in situations where they seem to do the same job as eagles our flying friends seem to be way better. My main problem, however, was inability to pass Ld tests at 8 or 9 with them and thus losing their unique Light Cavalry ability to feign flight, rally and keep being annoying. I actually had more success with them when I played smaller, 2k battle, where I had two units of these. At the moment I am trying to decide if I want to test them a little bit longer or maybe it is time to let them rest and choose something else.

9 Silver Helms, FC

I'm not convinced of this bus yet, despite Seredain's effort. With your Prince being sub-optimal, damagewise, I'm very unsure of their use. Perhaps beef your Dragon Princes instead, run a Beasts Mage Prince with them and have a bigger PG unit backed up with Mindrazor? Combined with your Lore of Light Archmage, this can present some REALLY nasty threats, making anything from magical defense to movement hard to prioritize for your opponent (with Birona's, Withering, Mindrazor AND Wyssan's at your disposal this can be a real beast - not to mention the corin lurking on the Prince).

Yes, I am really considering upgrading them to Silver Helms or making two units of Dragon Princes of equal size but with different toys (e.g. Banner of Eternal Flame for one and Amulet of Light for the other one). I am also aware it is not that the unit itself is not good but I am at the moment unable to make them work as good as with two characters. I also agree that with different spells they can still be dangerous but so would be DP if not more.

Overall, I'm liking the direction you're taking but I'd really recommend a bit of a change, focus-wise, as my suggestions point to. Because I can, I feel like posting an example demonstrating the suggested changes:

Excellent! Discussing the alternative is a very good way to improve things even if I might not agree with all the suggestions or might not have resources to make them at the moment.

Archmage lvl 4 Lore of Light Annulian Crystal (generally goes with Archers) - 300

The usefulness of a Light Archmage lies in his ability to cast spells with 12" area of effect. If you keep him with Archers more often than not then he would have to cast his spells targeting only one of friendly units. That is why I want him to be closer to Spearelves, Swordmaster and heavy Cavalry. But by doing so I position him also close to the enemy. That is why I decided to give him Floariath's Robes as he is quite save and even lucky cannon shot cannot harm him (at least of the imperial kind). I think it would limit his usefulness without the Robes (or a ward of some kind) and too far away to affect combat units.

Prince on Barded Steed, Dragon Armour, Helm of Fortune, Gem of Hoeth (Beasts for Wyssans), Ring of Corin, Great Weapon - 285

I am concerned by his lack of Ward save. With my "luck" I am going to fail that "Look Out, Sir" roll as I did many times in the past. As I also mentioned earlier I am not sure yet about making him Mage Knight at all. Do you think spell casting Prince is a benefit to this list or would you prefer the one which is better protected (4+ ward save) and something to make him better in combat, like Potion of Strength or Talisman of Loec?

Mage lvl 2 Lore of Shadow Seerstaff (Withering, Mindrazor) - 165

It is hard not to acknowledge the usefulness of Shadow Magic It seems very popular choice now. But this also limits usefulness of Light wizards, as S5 banishment is usually dangerous enough that the enemy will try to dispel it. This in turn allows me to cast other spells I might need more, although if it goes through it is nice as well. What is more with Seerstaff I have a chance to cast it twice if I get it for the Archmage. What do you think about such set up?

34 Spears full command, movement banner - 346

That is interesting choice. I understand that with BSB nearby (or with the unit) the need for improved Ld is not that crucial. Am i correct?

24 Phoenix Guard, full command & banner of sorcery - 440

Unfortunately it is not an option for me at the moment. I am curious, however if after incredible successes by Ptolemy and Tethlis this unit is going to be "must-have" choice for many HE players. I certainly see you are going to use it for sure

9 Dragon Princes, full command & flame banner - 330

Giving Dragon Princes flaming attacks really feels right What about a little trinket for Drakemaster? There are a few which are very useful and since we are spending a lot of points already, 25 more does not seem to be that much anymore. I wonder if that big unit with the Prince too is not too big of a magnet, however.

What is the focus of this list? 3 strong units all capable of beating just about any foe, backed with the necessary magical support. An alternative is to shave the PG a bit and include a small unit of White Lions (10 should do just fine) to give you a flanking unit who can also act as speedbump/sacrifice etc.

Overall, I feel this is along the lines of what you're trying to accomplish but more effective. You can even include your Reavers by shaving a few points

Hope you find this useful,
~Olannon

Indeed the list looks very interesting and I am sure it would fight very well, as there are solid choices in it. However, I cannot use it in this form due to reasons I have mentioned before. I will post the list of available models I have at the moment to make it easier to suggest any changes should you or somebody else come up with yet another idea. I really appreciate your input and I am well aware that sometimes the choices I make (especially based on the models not their usefulness) make my army list more fragile and not fully optimized. I still believe I can make it work as there is apparently only 45% of success in army list building only

Cheers!

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

Greetings!

I have just learned about a very interesting opportunity. It seems there is a huge event called Cancon organized in Canberra by the end of January 2012. If you are interested in details here is a link: Cancon 2012

I have just registered for a Warhammer tournament during that event. It is a 3-day tournament with 8 (sic!) games at 2400 points. There are rulebook scenarios used at each game and Special Characters are allowed too. Here is a link to more details, if you want to have a look: Warhammer Rules Pack

So I have 3 months to prepare. I will post the pictures of the army as I intended in a separate topic but now the aim is to make the regiments ready for tournament too. Obviously an important part of preparation is to play some battles and I hope to organize a few in the given time.

As for the topic itself I would be extremely grateful for any input. At the moment I have absolutely no experience with:

1. Special Characters
2. Scenarios

Any ideas as to what to expect would be appreciated There is some form of composition point given by tournament organizers but then everything is allowed so I am aware it might be a nasty surprise to meet some particular army and character on the battlefield.

With that in mind I would like to proceed with improving my army list too. In addition to what I have posted so far in terms of models used I also have:

~20 LSG from IoB
~20 Swordmasters from IoB
~10 Ellyrian Reavers from IoB
Griffon (although I do not plan to use it really, even if I were to use Eltharion)
5 Plastic Dragon Princes
Enough metal Dragon Princes to increase the number of existing unit up to 10 (all need to be painted still)

These miniatures I can use to tailor the list further if there is a need to make some regiments bigger or add something extra. I will soon post the most recent version of my army list but at the moment I am trying to decide on the following:

1. Prince - Mage Knight or NOT? If Mage Knight I am tempted to use beast lore and the magical items set up I used in my last battle. If not, then I want him to be well protected (like 2+ AS with re-roll and 4+ ward) and armed with GW. There would be options for some additional equipment.

2. Archmage - Folariath's Robes and Light magic. If I chose Mage Knight then I do not have many points to add more as he needs to be around 300 points. If pure combat Prince then I can give him more toys. Staff of Solidity being at the moment at the top of my list.

3. Level 2 Light Mage - If I decide to take Annulian Crystal for the Archmage then this guy can have something else. What would you recommend?

4. Archers - 2 units of 13 with musicians or 1 uit of 25 with full command?

5. Swordmasters - 14 at the moment. More? More units?

6. Heavy cavalry - At the moment 9 SH and 5 DP. Any other configuration?

7. Reavers - I need to drop to 2400 so they might be gone but for a time being I was considering the idea of 2 units of 5 in the army which consisted: Big unit of Archer, Big unit of Spears, 14+ Swordmasters, 9 DP and 2 eagles. I haven't forgotten about this idea either.

Ok, that's it for the moment. I think it could be a great event and I really want to give it a try. I also hope that despite special characters I will be able to perform better than during my last tournament where I won twice and lost (badly) three times.

Thanks for your input in advance!

[pk-ng]

Tyrion - Never used him before
Teclis - 475 for an AM with Loremaster, ignore 1st miscast every turn, has BoH, is a BoS and has Sigil of Asuryan - awesome yeah?
Alith - Never used him before
Eltharion - Balanced Mage Knight for it's points
Korhil - 140 Points he's so worth it. Put him in a unit of PGs for some fighting power and also making them Stubborn !
Caradryan - He's ok great in a unit of WL or SM for the MR(3). His halbred does D3 wounds. Not bad for 175 but I think Korhil is better but that's my preference.

[dabber]

You need to check into what the Australian tournament scene considers "average tournament list that is judged to be tuned, but not abusive". I know that varies plenty between different countries, although Australia may be small enough it won't vary much around Australia. With Composition worth HALF of Battle, it looks like you won't be seeing any nasty 'Ardboyz style lists though. I think that eliminates Teclis.

[Elessehta of Yvresse]

Swordmaster, jump on Wargamerau, there are a lot of tournament players on there and they are generally pretty helpful. I wonder if I get get time off work to visit my mates in Canberra... if I can I'll be taking my battlefoam full, my Hawkship list is fluffy and I have fun with it, so I doubt I would place well, but three days and eight games would be awesome.

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

@pk-ng
I do not plan to use special characters. I haven't use them for ages and at the moment I do not have models with me. Although I do have old Teclis, Tyrion and Korhil. Even if I had them ready I would not bring Teclis as the amount of hate people receive due to this character is too much

@dabber
I will definietly try to check what to expect. I am more interested, however, at what to prepare against. There are so many special characters out there but not all of them are popular (or broken). Any ideas? I know I could expect Slugtongue (or whatever his name is) from Beastmen and after talking to my usual opponent he mentioned Grimgor and Queek might be viable too. Of course I will just refresh my memory and read about all of them. Just wanted to know what is popular in non-comped environment and what tricks to be aware of

@Tiralya
I was checking wargamerau before and I will definitely post there for advice too. Have yet to register

By all means try to make it! My army is not hard either but I really don't want to miss such a big event. And I will do my best to in against any foe Would be great to make some friends too so I don't have to play UB all the time only with my brother Have you ever been to Cancon before? If yes, what are your impressions?

Ok, here is my army draft. It is by no means finite but I need to start from some point and after playing 2500 for a while I found it hard to drop to 2400

Lords

Prince 1 - Barded Steed, Dragon Armour, Great Weapon, Radiant Gem of Hoeth, Tamakador’s Gauntlets, Luckstone = 275

Prince 2 - Barded Steed, Heavy Armour, Shield, Great Weapon, Radiant Gem of Hoeth, Dragon Helm, Guardian Phoenix = 275

His gear is some kind of compromise as I needed to make his cost 275 or less due to Archmage equipment and 600 points limit. I want to further test Mage Knight as I see his usefulness and I am going to use High Magic due to very useful Shield and Drain and which are relatively easy to cast with 2 dice even by level 1 wizard. The differenece between builds is that Prince 1 had 5+ ward against S4 or more and have that one armour saver re-roll, while Prince 2 has 5+ ward save no matter what. Both have 2+ armour save but Prince 2 has 1+ against shooting.

As an alternative to Mage Knight I have my tank-Prince who is better euipped to fight big nasties and can operate solo with greater confidence:

Prince 3 - Barded Steed, Heavy Armour, Shield, Great Weapon, Dragon Helm, Vembrances of Defense, Talisman of Loec = 270

Archmage 1 - Level 4, Folariath's Robes, Dispel Scroll, Light Magic - 325

Archmage 2 - Level 4, Folariath's Robes, Ring of Corin, Light Magic - 325

Both builds are good. I didn't miss Dispel Scroll that much but I am aware I haven't met magic heavy armies yet. Ring of Corin can be extremely useful if played right, even if your opponents know your army list.

Heroes

BSB 1 - Great Weapon, Armour of Caledor, Dawnstone - 168

BSB 2 - Great Weapon, Armour of Caledor, Guardian Phoenix - 168

Reading battle reports by Ptolemy and the discussion after I started to think which option is more viable at a tournament. So far I have been fighting much against enemies who do not have tools to kill you without armour saves. However, on a few occasions, most notably against Dark Elves, I did meet them and I lost both, the Prince and the BSB, to warriors with Killing Blow. As my BSB is going to see a lot of combat maybe switching to 5+ ward is a good idea. Of course this is only when Prince 2 is not taken.

Mage - Level 2, Annulian Crystal, Lore of Light - 175

I know I am character heavy but each of them is important. I think that to get the most from Lore of Light if taken as main school of magic for the army one requires 2+ wizards.

Core

29 Spearelves, FC - 286
24 Archers, Light Armour, Musician, Standard - 327

I haven't attached any magical banner just yet as I am wondering what would be the most appropriate and for whom. I used Standard of Discipline with good success but again, after reading Ptolemy's reports I started to consider War banner again. Banner of eternal flame can be good on Archers I hear so that is an option as well. Combining Archers to one unit is due to the fact we are going to play scenarios where number of Standards can be an advantage and I was also advised to do so due to Watch Tower. Besides 24 + character can form in 5 ranks if needed and give me another anvil. I have already sent Archers to combat and they can be quite good at it. As to Light Armour I am not getting rid of it, no matter how many times you are going to tell me to do so

Special

18 Swordmasters, Musician, Banner of Sorcery - 344

9 Silver Helms, FC - 247

5 Dragon Princes - 150

Main differences in comparison to my 2500 army list are greater number of Swordmasters and no Reavers. I could not find points for second unit of Swordmasters unless they would be less than 10 and decreasing the number of bodies in existing unit. So I decided to make a bigger one. They are a big target already so I am going to protect them with spells and positioning as I have tried to do so far.

I miss my Reavers but I could only try to find points by further decreasing the number of warriors and then I would include them only with Spears but without Bows. Nothing big but feels wrong to me to field models with bows and do not use them.

Heavy Cavalry as usual, decided not to merge them into single unit of DP just yet. I have very few units at the moment anyway.

Rare

Great Eagle - 50
Great Eagle - 50

With Prince 1 and 2 this comes to a total of 2397 while with Prince 3 to 2392 points. I can still save some points here and there to accommodate that Magic Banner for one core unit. I can also use 14 Swordmasters as at the begininnign and include 3rd eagle or ... 5 Shadow Warriors just for something I have not tried before.

My first practice game will probably happen in two weeks and it will be against O&G. If I remember correctly the first battle at Cancon is going to be the basic scenario but if that changes I will let you know.

Thanks for advice in advance!

[Elessehta of Yvresse]

Wow a lot of coin tossing in that list each build has it's merits, my list is pretty much locked in, just haven't decided on the Mage Knight BSB(would need the BoS and it's hard to fit another 50p in) or if I'm going to include Shadow Warriors. The advantage in always playing with my fluffy Hawkship lists is I only even change a couple of things ^_^
I won't be able to tell if I can make it until after Christmas, if I have enough holidays I'll be there! I can't been to cancon before but from what I've seen of local events and youtube reports on other events, the tournament scene is pretty fun.

[pk-ng]

Most of the Canberra tournaments are quite good. I've been to a couple of 1 dayers before. 3 days is huge and i'm tempted to go assuming if i'll be in aus during that period but long drive from syd

[Elessehta of Yvresse]

Canberra, a long drive from Sydney? Dude if I go I'll be coming from QLD =P

[pk-ng]

haha

[Malossar]

I'd heartily recommend dropping the dispel scroll from your Archmage and bringing the Silver Wand instead. Why?

You need to almost guarantee that spells you want/need are chosen, this is especially true in tournament play.

Your magic defense is incredible as it is already, with Drain Magic, and the Annulian Crystal plus a whopping +5 to dispel?! You should shut down more than half of your opponents magic phases with the Annulian Crystal alone, plus Drain which makes it even better!

This then allows you to take a more thorough lord build, keeping him protected is nice since you're relying on his Leadership.

As a side note, if you're running Sword Masters, its generally advisable taking Life with your archmage. Yes, people are cranky about dwellers, but you don't have to cast it! Its just as easy throwing your dice at augments, and your back up casters, it all honesty when i take an archmage with Lore of Life, 9.999 / 10 i never cast dwellers! But it is there in a crunch if you're desperate for a game turner...

Ok, even if you take Light on your archmage i'd take Metal with your Level 2, i know that you want to Banishment nuke people, but, strength 5 isn't that great, go for str 6 or leave him at home. Plus the Metal Signature gives you a way to deal with high armored targets, AND you might roll lucky in the spell selection and end up with some augments or hexes from the rest of the Lore.

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

Greetings!

I'd heartily recommend dropping the dispel scroll from your Archmage and bringing the Silver Wand instead. Why?

You need to almost guarantee that spells you want/need are chosen, this is especially true in tournament play.

With second mage getting spells from the same lore I got all the spells I wanted. The only "problem" is when level 2 get's Timewarp which is more difficult for him to cast if I wanted area effect. Hence, I think that Silver Wand would not be that crucial here.

Your magic defense is incredible as it is already, with Drain Magic, and the Annulian Crystal plus a whopping +5 to dispel?! You should shut down more than half of your opponents magic phases with the Annulian Crystal alone, plus Drain which makes it even better!

I intend to test a little bit more as I have fielded Mage Knight only once and didn't use Drain Magic yet. I hope you are right though

This then allows you to take a more thorough lord build, keeping him protected is nice since you're relying on his Leadership.

I could do that or take Ring of Corin instead. I am really curious if I can make this little trinket work as it might really help.

As a side note, if you're running Sword Masters, its generally advisable taking Life with your archmage. Yes, people are cranky about dwellers, but you don't have to cast it! Its just as easy throwing your dice at augments, and your back up casters, it all honesty when i take an archmage with Lore of Life, 9.999 / 10 i never cast dwellers! But it is there in a crunch if you're desperate for a game turner...

If I were to take only Archmage I think I would go for Life. However, I wanted something else than very popular Shadow and Life. I still think Light can protect my troops too although in a different way. What is more, contrary to Life, I can protect multiple units at the same time. So I am not saying Life is inferior, I just wish to test Light a little more and I really like this lore.

Ok, even if you take Light on your archmage i'd take Metal with your Level 2, i know that you want to Banishment nuke people, but, strength 5 isn't that great, go for str 6 or leave him at home. Plus the Metal Signature gives you a way to deal with high armored targets, AND you might roll lucky in the spell selection and end up with some augments or hexes from the rest of the Lore.

It seems that Metal mage is a little situational. My O&G opponent told me that during his last tournament they faced Empire and Brettonia (double tournament, he and his friend took both O&G) and Empire wizards took all Metal. They culd do very little against lightly armoured Orcs and Goblins. I am not taking Light for Banishment. It is a very good spell and S5 is actually good against any foe while against Undead and Deamons it should be very dangerous. You see, what I noticed is that with S4 people tend to let it go (unless the target is small). While at S5 they have a difficult choice to make. Often they still dispel Banishment and give me an opportunity to cast more important but less straightforward spells. Again, I am not saying Metal mage is not useful. However, I think for this particular set up 2 Light wizards are what I need for good spells selection and proper threat for the enemy to make his decision making a little bit more difficult.

Cheers!

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

Greetings!

In my first battle to prepare for a tournament I used this list:

Archmage, Level 4, Light Magic, Folariath's Robes, Ring of Fury, Dragon Gem
Mage, Level 2, Light Magic, Annulian Crystal
BSB, GW, Armour of Caledor, Guardian Phoenix
Noble, GW, Barded Steed, Dragon Armour, Helm of Fortune, Amulet of Light

30 Spearelves, FC, Standard of Discipline
12 Archers, Light Armor, Musician
12 Archers, Light Armor, Musician

13 Swordmasters, Standard, Musician, Banner of Sorcery
9 Silver Helms, FC
6 Dragon Princes, Standard, Banner of Eternal Flame
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Musician, Spears, Bows

Great Eagle
Great Eagle

As you can see I tried the army without a Prince for the first time. I like LA idea for SH unit with a Noble and I think it might work just fine. I would have my cavalry hammer but also some more points for more bodies. I must say I miss the prince a little with his ability to add some more protection (oh how I wished I had these ward saves!). It is also possible that taking the reavers (although I like them so much) was a mistake too. My opponent had two units of Wolf Riders and they were much more efficcient.

So what do you think? Should I come back to Cavalry Prince?

Cheers!

[Lord Anathir]

honestly don't listen to anything I say, I speak out of my ass all the time with little results to show for it. (except when it comes to dwarfs)

[GhostWarrior]

Tough call on this list Swordmaster. At first glance I really like it, but I am noticing some potential flaws that would make me less then happy when using it. (I'm also putting things I like too )

Light Magic in combination with the army: I can't say that I've used Light very much for High Elves, though I'm going to try it after seeing those who have been using it with success here. It seems like it would best benefit a High Elf army that had lots of sustainable str5 and str6 attacks. By this I mean Swordmasters and especially White Lions. With the 2 heavy cav units you seem to be in a place where you wouldn't get the best use out of the AoE spells, and if charges weren't successful in breaking the enemy, you could be in trouble.

From this alone I would say drop the Silver Helms or the Dragon Princes to fit in either:
13 Swordmasters w/Std, Mus and Banner of Eternal Flame
or
13 White Lions w/Std, Mus and BoS (giving Eternal Flame to your Swordmasters)

The amount of elite infantry: To further this point, I would worry that having only 1 elite infantry unit means that when the cav are engaged (potentially before the infantry depending on the opponent), that they will be the only interesting target for your opponents ranged attacks. I know Light magic helps mitigate this, but I feel one of our strengths is being able to target saturate our opponents with elite infantry.

Ranged Attacks: While initially I saw the lack of RBTs as a potential weakness, I actually feel your list has plenty of ranged damage attacks to soften up the enemy before combats. Light magic, with the Ring and some bows should all work well here.

Flak: Two Eagles and a unit of Reavers - Perfect. If you can fit in a 6th reaver, do it, and run the unit 3x2. Perfect warmachine hunter, and general distractor.

I see this army as doing well against light and numerous foes, but having trouble with Warriors, Ogres, and Lizards. Does this seem to match your experience?

I had a thought for your noble- Tekmadors, AoL and Luckstone. What do you think?

Hope my suggestions were helpful.

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

Hi guys!

Thanks for comments despite lack of victories on my part and being stubborn and not to use your ideas No wonder there are fewer of suggestions at the moment

honestly don't listen to anything I say, I speak out of my ass all the time with little results to show for it. (except when it comes to dwarfs)

Well, there is no better way to find out if you do by trying that myself I see you switched to cavalry Deathstar at the moment I was also thinking about it (although without BSB) but decided it is too expensive for me. Funny, there are armies (like VC) where people have no problem in putting 1000+ points in one unit.

Tough call on this list Swordmaster. At first glance I really like it, but I am noticing some potential flaws that would make me less then happy when using it. (I'm also putting things I like too )

It does look great on the shelve for sure

Light Magic in combination with the army: I can't say that I've used Light very much for High Elves, though I'm going to try it after seeing those who have been using it with success here. It seems like it would best benefit a High Elf army that had lots of sustainable str5 and str6 attacks. By this I mean Swordmasters and especially White Lions. With the 2 heavy cav units you seem to be in a place where you wouldn't get the best use out of the AoE spells, and if charges weren't successful in breaking the enemy, you could be in trouble.

Indeed it seems that Light when used as AoE is better for foot soldiers. They are usually closer to each other and cannot really jump out of the line as cavalry does. However, Light has cheaper version of each spell which often has 24" range (although targets single unit) so the cavalry can also benefit from it. If you look at it from the point of any other lore it means that your AoE is a bonus rather to the similar decision any other player has to make, i.e. which unit to support.

From this alone I would say drop the Silver Helms or the Dragon Princes to fit in either:
13 Swordmasters w/Std, Mus and Banner of Eternal Flame
or
13 White Lions w/Std, Mus and BoS (giving Eternal Flame to your Swordmasters)

It is indeed tempting to add second unit of Swordmasters. I actually build a list like that too but in order to have all the units I needed to drop the Prince. Still considering that option.

The amount of elite infantry: To further this point, I would worry that having only 1 elite infantry unit means that when the cav are engaged (potentially before the infantry depending on the opponent), that they will be the only interesting target for your opponents ranged attacks. I know Light magic helps mitigate this, but I feel one of our strengths is being able to target saturate our opponents with elite infantry.

This army is small anyway so yes, as soon as the cavalry is not a viable target then the enemy targets Swordmasters (if not earlier). This is also the reason why it is so unforgiving. Losing any element of the force drops quickly its strength. Hence Light magic to help the elves to survive better, get to combat quicker and win it faster.

Ranged Attacks: While initially I saw the lack of RBTs as a potential weakness, I actually feel your list has plenty of ranged damage attacks to soften up the enemy before combats. Light magic, with the Ring and some bows should all work well here.

It is quite ok at the moment although there were situations where I wanted my pair of RBT's

Flak: Two Eagles and a unit of Reavers - Perfect. If you can fit in a 6th reaver, do it, and run the unit 3x2. Perfect warmachine hunter, and general distractor.

I really like that support and if I had points I would get another light cavalry. I think they would be great in pairs, when both units can flee, stopping enemy regiment (the bigger the better) then rallying and repeating that procedure Yes, I was thinking abut running them 3 models wide, as they still have enough attacks (and on smaller frontage for mage hunting) to be dangerous on a charge. The problem is they are also one of the units which might go as a first one in order to find points for something else.

I see this army as doing well against light and numerous foes, but having trouble with Warriors, Ogres, and Lizards. Does this seem to match your experience?

At the moment I have a feeling it has problems with everything I am not sure about the Ogres as in 4 battles I have fought against them so far, Once my opponent had the worst luck ever, and twice I made such mistakes that helped him to win no matter what would I fielded instead. I don't have experience against Warriors and Lizards. I played WoC once and won but it was due to inexperience of my opponent (sending 6 chaos knights against 2 ranks of Swordmasters is not a good idea). I have some tools for tough enemies. My main concern so far was to help my units to survive shooting and get into combat on favorite conditions.

I had a thought for your noble- Tekmadors, AoL and Luckstone. What do you think?

Hope my suggestions were helpful.

Of course they are, as they make me look at an army from yet another point of view. The Noble you suggested is a good one and if I am going to use him again (I want to go back to mage-prince at the moment) I will consider that option for sure.

I had yet another conversation with my opponent today. He is helping me to prepare to the tournament by fielding different armies (no problem on UB but he does own quite a few anyway). His opinion is that my army needs to work perfectly in order to win and as my results show, any mistake costs me a lot. It was already suggested to me before that I might be focusing at too many expensive options at the same time, so the decision on what set of characters to have is not finished just yet. And even with particular set up there is always a question about magic lores.

GhostWarrior suggested different units to benefit from Light more. This is not the first time I am offered that advice but I was not considering giving away one of my heavy cavalry units. It was also suggested before to choose different lores for support mage. My opponent told me today that if I were to keep the units I have now he thinks I would be better with Shadow (level 4) + Fire (level 2) or Life (level 4) + Fire (level 2). He claims that in his environment such combination works very well.

Any opinions on that?

[Prince of Spires]

I first saw this list in your latest battle report, and it got me thinking. Would dropping one of your eagles be an idea. This would let you increase your elite units a bit.

The reason is that with 1 eagle, 1 unit of ER and both cavalry blocks you already have a lot of movement going on, which can force your opponent in a certain direction. To increase this a bit I would reshuffle the archers to create 1 unit of 14 and 1 unit of 10. This second unit is a bit more expendable and can be used mid - late game to redirect / speedbump instead of the second eagle.

Rod

[GhostWarrior]

If you're looking to go back to the Mage-Prince, give us an idea of what lore he's going to use. I'm currently using this loadout for my lords at 2500, for example.

Prince-Barded Steed, DA, GW, RGoH, HoF, Silver Wand - 275 (High)
AM - Lvl4, Dispel Scroll - 280 (Shadow)

I know you like FR too (and so do I), and you could fit it in for your 2400pt list (you'd be @ 600pts exactly). Also, you could consider the Ring of Corin on the AM if you keep your AC lvl 2.

As for the lvl2, that's up to you. I've found that 3 mages is too many for me, even if one of them is a level 1 (as long as the other mage is a lvl 4). If you do go with him for this build, take Fire and hope that you get either: Flaming Sword, FlameCage, or Piercing Bolts of Burning (generally in that order of importance), and obviously swap the other spell for Fireball.

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

I first saw this list in your latest battle report, and it got me thinking. Would dropping one of your eagles be an idea. This would let you increase your elite units a bit.

The reason is that with 1 eagle, 1 unit of ER and both cavalry blocks you already have a lot of movement going on, which can force your opponent in a certain direction. To increase this a bit I would reshuffle the archers to create 1 unit of 14 and 1 unit of 10. This second unit is a bit more expendable and can be used mid - late game to redirect / speedbump instead of the second eagle.

Rod

That is amazing how different and often quite opposite ideas one might get. My opponent actually told me that if he were me he would take 2 more eagles instead of reavers. I don't think I would drop second eagle though. I used to play with one only and although I didn't lose because I didn't have it I still would like to have it. That is true I have already a few fast units but they are small (with an exception of SH and they are rather medium too). With one eagle gone I can get 3 more Swordmasters so it is not that huge improvement but I lose one drop during deployment phase with quite a small army already.

The idea of small and bigger archer unit is also an interesting one, I will think about it.

If you're looking to go back to the Mage-Prince, give us an idea of what lore he's going to use.

I am going to use High Magic for cheap Shield and occasional Drain magic. I think that other lores have spell which are too difficult to cast on 2 dice for him (although have great uses). It is also due to the fact that having small and fragile army I want to increase its survivability.

I'm currently using this loadout for my lords at 2500, for example.

Prince-Barded Steed, DA, GW, RGoH, HoF, Silver Wand - 275 (High)
AM - Lvl4, Dispel Scroll - 280 (Shadow)

I was going to use a Prince with Gauntlets as I want to see if I like it more with ward save. I know it might be useless when shield is up but then not always I can count on it. Maybe I am wrong? I have some time before a game tonight so I will try to make up my mind.

I don't know why but I developed some kind of allergic reaction to Shadow I do not deny its usefulness, quite contrary, but since everybody uses it, I don't want it

My army is small and fragile so I wanted it to have some protection. I really like Pha's Protection but it seems it is not enough. Hence I am going to see if I can make it work better with Life again. With Prince casting Shield on SH I will have my Archmage keeping Swordmasters alive with Flesh to Stone, Earthblood and hopefully Regrowth. In order to give him a better chance to have a proper spell selection I am going to give him a Silver Wand. The funny part is that I agreed with my opponent that I will think about changes in my army list before he lets me know what army he is going to play with this time. And he chose Deamons Well, of course I could pretend I didn't listen to his previous advice and keep Light magic for Archmage but it would be kind of cheating. Will see if I can make it work without S5 banishment (3D6 against deamons) and if winds of magic will favor me with enough power to cast many spells as it seems I would need all of them

I know you like FR too (and so do I), and you could fit it in for your 2400pt list (you'd be @ 600pts exactly). Also, you could consider the Ring of Corin on the AM if you keep your AC lvl 2.

That is the problem with HE. We have so many good items

As for the lvl2, that's up to you. I've found that 3 mages is too many for me, even if one of them is a level 1 (as long as the other mage is a lvl 4). If you do go with him for this build, take Fire and hope that you get either: Flaming Sword, FlameCage, or Piercing Bolts of Burning (generally in that order of importance), and obviously swap the other spell for Fireball.

I am still going for three wizards. It improves chances for successful channeling and adds spell variety. Level 2 will take Light nevertheless as I hope to get Pha's Protection and/or banishment while I can always choose Burning Gaze which is like Fireball. Although ti could be of use against deamons too. Of course casting its powerful version will be difficult for a level 2 (I think to get it through I would probably need 4 dice at least) and with higher risk of miscast. I was also considering taking Seerstuff for him and giving Crystal to the Archmage instead of Wand and Robes. In that case I would have the spells I need the most (like both magic missiles against deamons) but then my Archmage would be more vulnerable and I have already lost him when he was using Life due to unlucky rolls for regeneration.

Well, as I said I have some time to reconsider some options but the main things will stay as I have just described them. We are playing battle of the pass so there will be less place for outflanking. I must admit I am a little nervous as against weaker foes (OK and O&G) I could not make it work and against deamons it will be even more difficult.

Cheers!

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

I have just finished another game, again against Deamons so expect a battle report soon. However, this time I fielded a completely different army, inspired by SmithF on warhammer.org. Have a look at his two excellent topics, they are great read even if you do not agree with his approach:

MSU in 8th edition

SmithF's Battle Log

Why did I change my army list yet again? Well, although I liked some elements of it and the way it looks I felt I am not using this very fragile force properly. I had few units, only 2 sacrificial eagles and I could not afford to lose any of the elements of the army. Hardly the situation I can ecnounter in my games where there are always casualties. When I started with Cavalry Prince I had quite a few units to move around but with time the number of units decreased and I was easily outnumbered and out-deployed. This might not be a problem to a tough force which can shrug off shooting and grind its way through any opponent in the Chosen of Chaos style. I started to miss that movement phase where you can set traps and counter-charges. I saw a few armies around which had more units and did well. Many times it was also suggested that I at least get rid of one of the lord characters to accommodate more troops. Being stubborn I had to get beaten first and think more about it.

After reading SmithF's topics I reminded myself about MSU in long passed days where Druchii were poorly designed army but had a lot of great tactical minds and I really appreciated their style. I did try it myself but didn't have patience to play test it properly and still hanged to some old habits which didn't help with a new army.

After reviewing what miniatures I have and what I can use without too much painitng to be done I decided to use what SmithF suggested with some modifications to make it fit into 2400 limit. So here it is, MSU style army:

Archmage, Level 4, Annulian Crystal - High Magic
BSB, Dragon Armor, Great Weapon, Radiant Gem of Hoeth, Pidgeon Plucker Pendant

20 Spearelves, Musician, Standard
20 Spearelves, Musician, Standard, Banner of Eternal Flame
10 Archers, Light Armor, Musician
10 Archers, Light Armor, Musician

9 Swordmasters, Musician
9 Swordmasters, Musician
9 Swordmasters, Musician
10 White Lions, Musician
10 White Lions, Musician
5 Dragon Princes, Musician
5 Dragon Princes, Musician
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Bows, Spears, Musician

Great Eagle
Great Eagle

I will post thoughts on this army later, as I want to finish the battle report first. It would be great, however, if you presented your comments in the meantime, unbiased by my performance in the last game. I am definitely giving it a try as it was a nice refreshment from somehow stanganted approach I was so stubbornly attached to for so long. I have my movement phase back

Cheers!

[Elessehta of Yvresse]

So many musicians, it would be a lovely sounding army ^_^

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

They tried hard but could not block the siren songs