Vengeance Rising

This forum is for the posting of reports of your famous victories and crushing defeats. It is for both single battle reports and for ongoing army diaries/blogs.

Moderators: The Heralds, The Loremasters

Post Reply
Message
Author
Jimmy
Centurion
Posts: 3307
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:55 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Vengeance Rising

#1 Post by Jimmy »

Hi All

Well after a few interesting ups and downs with the Tomb Kings I’m just getting little enjoyment out of them so for the time being I’m getting back to the High Elves for some fun and games whilst painting my Ogres and Tomb Kings (maybe in that order!). I’m jumping on the band wagon and creating somewhat of a journal of upcoming battles.

The basic aim of this journal is to document 100 of my games, gather thoughts and feelings whilst playing and pre/post game commentary noting key areas to improve on and areas to watch out for in the next game. Obviously this is a long term project but I’m hoping to remain active enough in the community maintaining it with regular updates.

At the end of the day this is purely about gaining more experience with my favourite armies in Warhammer and hopefully becoming a much better player during the course of it all.

I’m taking inspiration from a tonne of members here who contribute on a regular basis including but not limited to Curu, Brewmaster, SpellArcher, Swordmaster, Seredain, Elithmar, Bolt Thrower, and rdghuizing just to name a few.

I'm coming up with a good account of Warhammer Battle Reports and I'm sure I'll end up surpassing the 100 mark.

Edit - 9/4/14

Well the journey has certainly surpassed the 100 battle mark however it won't stop. I haven't quite returned to Ulthuan to play the High Elves as yet and have given the Tomb Kings a break for now and started a bit of a journey with the Ogres. I don't like the typical Ogre lists seen across the internet so I'm attempting to get something a bit uncommon in motion and hopefully it will be a lot of fun to play at the same time.


Links to battles:

1. HE vs Empire Coven of Light
2. Balanced List - 02/03/12 vs Beastmen
3. Balanced List - 09/03/12 vs Beastmen (re-match)
4. Dual Necroknights - 31/03/12 vs Beastmen
5. Dual Necroknights - 07/04/12 vs VC
6. Dual Necroknights - 25/04/12 vs Beastmen
7. Dual Necroknights - 25/04/12 vs Beastmen (again!)
8. Knights/Warsphinxes - 06/05/12 vs Empire
9. Knights/Warsphinxes - 06/05/12 vs Empire (Game 2)
10. Sphinx List - 23/06/12 vs WOC
11. TG Horde - 23/06/12 vs WOC
12. Shooting Heavy - 30/06/12 vs WOC
13. EBTS - 30/06/12 vs WOC
14. Shooting Heavy - 29/06/12 vs Dark Elves
15. Sphinx List - 07/07/12 vs Empire (B&G)
16. Sphinx List - 07/07/12 vs Empire (B&G) - Rematch
17. Snakes 07/07/12 vs Empire (B&G) - 2nd Rematch!
18. Dual Necroknights - 21/07/12 vs WOC (Battleline)
19. Dual Necroknights - 12/08/12 vs Empire Knight Bus (Battleline)
20. Dual Necroknights - 12/08/12 vs VC (Battleline)
21. Dual Necroknights - 18/08/12 vs HE (Battleline)
22. Dual Necroknights - 24/08/12 vs DE (Battleline)
23. Dual Necroknights - 08/09/12 vs Dwarfs (Battleline)
24. Dual Necroknights - 08/09/12 vs Dwarfs (Battleline)
25. Dual Necroknights - 08/09/12 vs Skaven (Battleline)
26. Dual Necroknights - 08/09/12 vs Ogres (Batteline)
27. Campaign beginnings - 23/09/12 vs Brets
28. TG Horde - 29/09/12 vs Brets (Battleline)
29. Heavenly Glory - 30/09/12 vs Brets
30. Arkhan List - 06/10/12 vs Bretonnia (Dawn Attack)
31. Arkhan List - 14/10/12 vs Bretonnia
32. Arkhan List - 20/10/12 vs Bretonnia
33. Khalida List - 28/10/12 vs Bretonnia
34. Khatep List - 03/11/12 vs Bretonnia
35. Khatep List - 16/11/12 vs Bretonnia
36. Khatep List - 17/11/12 vs Chaos Dwarfs
37. Khatep List - 17/11/12 vs Chaos Dwarfs (Re-match)
38. Khatep List - 23/11/12 vs Lizardmen
39. Khatep List - 25/11/12 vs Bretonnia
40. Big December Game 1 vs Dwarfs
41. Big December Game 2 vs Empire
42. Big December Game 3 vs Lizardmen
43. Big December Game 4 vs Vampire Counts
44. SoM Game - 25/01/13 vs Warriors of Chaos
45. TG Horde - 26/01/13 vs Warriors of Chaos
46. TG Horde - 28/01/13 vs Warriors of Chaos
47. Skellie Horde - 03/02/13 vs Warriors of Chaos
48. Game 1 QNK Joust - 09/02/13
49. Game 2 QNK Joust - 09/02/13
50. Game 3 QNK Joust - 09/02/13
51. TG Horde - 10/02/13 vs High Elves
52. Khatep - 23/02/13 vs WOC
53. Mixed Bag - 24/02/13 vs WOC
54. Chariot Prince - 06/03/13 vs WOC
55. Chariot Prince - 08/03/13 vs WOC
56. Chariot Prince - 08/03/13 vs WOC
57. Chariot Prince - 09/03/13 vs WOC
58. Khatep - 15/03/13 vs WOC
59. Arkhan - 15/03/13 vs WOC
60. Ogres - 16/03/13 vs WOC
61. Ogres - 16/03/13 vs WOC
62. Arkhan - 05/04/13 vs WOC
63. BIG April Game 1 - 14/04/13 vs VC
64. BIG April Game 2 - 14/04/13 vs WE
65. BIG April Game 3 - 14/04/13 vs WOC
66. BIG April Game 4 - 14/04/13 vs WOC
67. BIG April Game 5 - 14/04/13 vs Empire
68. Khatep/EBTS - 21/04/13 vs WOC
69. Khatep/EBTS - 24/04/13 vs OK
70. Ogres - 11/05/13 vs Beastmen
71. Ogres - 17/05/13 vs Wood Elves
72. Ogres MSU - 19/05/13 vs Warriors of Chaos
73. Loremaster - 07/06/13 vs Warriors of Chaos
74. Chariot Prince - 09/06/13 vs Wood Elves
75. Chariot Prince - 09/06/13 vs Wood Elves
76. Chariot Prince - 09/06/13 vs Daemons
77. Chariot Prince - 15/06/13 vs Warriors
78. Chariot Prince - 15/06/13 vs Warriors
79. Sphinx Heavy - 25/06/13 vs Warriors
80. Max HKB - 25/06/13 vs Warriors
81. Khalida - 06/07/13 vs Chaos Dwarfs
82. Chariot Prince - 14/07/13 vs Warriors of Chaos
83. Griffon Prince - 14/07/13 vs Warriors of Chaos
84. Dual Giants - 21/07/13 vs Warriors of Chaos
85. Dual Giants - 27/07/13 vs Warriors of Chaos
86. Dual Giants - 02/08/13 vs Daemons of Chaos
87. OK MSU - 03/08/13 vs Warriors of Chaos
88. QNK Doubles - 10/08/13 vs OK/WOC
89. QNK Doubles - 10/08/13 vs Daemons/Vampires
90. QNK Doubles - 10/08/13 vs OK/O&G
91. Arkhan - 23/08/13 vs OK
92. Arkhan - 24/08/13 vs Warriors of Slaanesh
93. Arkhan - 24/08/13 vs Warriors of Khorne
94. Arkhan - 01/09/13 vs Warriors of Chaos
95. BIG September G1 vs Warriors of Chaos
96. BIG September G2 vs Empire
97. BIG September G3 vs Empire
98. BIG September G4 vs Bretonnia
99. BIG September G5 vs High Elves
100. Campaign
101. VSE vs Wood Elves
102. OK vs WOC
103. OK vs WOC
104. Max HKB vs WE
105. Max HKB vs WoC
106. OK vs WOC
107. OK vs Skaven
108. TG Horde - 30/11/13 vs WOC
109. TG Horde - 30/11/13 vs Dark Elves
110. TG Horde - 30/11/13 vs Wood Elves
111. Ogres - 06/12/13 vs Warriors of Chaos
112. Ogres - 06/12/13 vs Bretonnia
113. High Elves Anointed - 19/12/13 vs Warriors of Chaos
114. Dual MFC - 21/12/13 vs Warriors of Chaos
115. High Elves Anointed - 02/01/14 vs Daemons of Chaos
116. High Elves Anointed - 10/01/14 vs Vampire Counts
117. Tomb Kings - 24/01/14 vs Warriors of Khorne
118. High Elves Anointed - 7/02/14 vs Vampire Counts
119. High Elves Anointed - 7/02/14 vs Vampire Counts
120. Ogres - 08/02/14 vs Daemons of Chaos
121. Tomb Kings - 21/02/14 vs Warriors of Chaos 6K
122. Ogres - 14/3/14 vs Warriors of Chaos
123. Ogres - 14/3/14 vs Warriors of Chaos
124. MSU Ogres - 22/03/14 vs Daemons of Khorne
125. Beastmaster Ogres - 29/03/14 vs Daemons of Khorne
126. Beastmaster Ogres - 04/04/14 vs Dark Elves
127. Beastmaster Ogres - 05/04/14 vs Tomb Kings
128. Beastmaster Ogres - 09/05/14 vs Warriors of Chaos
129. Beastmaster Ogres - 09/05/14 vs Bretonnia
130. Firebelly Solo - 11/05/14 vs Warriors of Chaos
131. Beastmaster Ogres - 16/05/14 vs Wood Elves
132. Beastmaster Ogres - 17/05/14 vs Warriors of Chaos
133. Beastmaster Ogres - 30/05/14 vs Wood Elves
134. Beastmaster Ogres - 31/05/14 vs Daemons of Khorne
135. Beastmaster Ogres - 05/07/14 vs Warriors of Chaos
136. Magic-less Ogres - 06/07/14 vs Warriors of Chaos
137. Magic-less Ogres - 09/07/14 vs Warriors of Chaos
138. High Elves Anointed - 12/07/14 vs Warriors of Chaos
139. Magic-less Ogres - 04/08/14 vs Warriors of Chaos
140. VSE - 09/08/14 vs Ogre Kingdoms
141. Tyrant - 10/08/14 vs Wood Elves
142. UL MSU - 05/09/14 vs Ogre Kingdoms
143. UL MSU - 06/09/14 vs High Elves
144. UL Ushabti - 04/12/14 vs Ogre Kingdoms
145. UL Snake Wall - 08/12/14 vs Ogre Kingdoms
146. MSU Ogres - 06/01/15 vs Empire
147. MSU Ogres - 09/01/015 vs Empire
148. MSU Ogres - 12/01/15 vs MSU Undead Legion
149. MSU Ogres - 17/01/15 vs Glotkin
150. MSU Ogres - 30/01/15 vs Empire
151. MSU Ogres - 08/02/15 vs Daemons

Kings of War

1. Empire of Dust - 23/08/15 vs Varangur
Last edited by Jimmy on Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:17 am, edited 136 times in total.
Nec Sorte Nec Fato - Neither By Chance Nor Fate

X-wing Blog
Bolt Thrower
Posts: 2021
Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 3:13 am
Location: Illinois, USA

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....

#2 Post by Bolt Thrower »

Jimmy, this sounds like a great idea! I look forward to seeing how the list evolves over the course of 100 documented games.
Jimmy wrote:Level 4 AM – Shadow Lore, Book
Jimmy wrote:Level 2 – High Lore, Seerstaff, Flames of the Phoenix, Vaul’s Unmaking
Be very strategic in your magic phase. The Book tends to get us all revved up and we lose sight of the casting combos by throwing too many dice for the free IF. It sucks the dice up fast and also has the drawback of shifting the dispel dice onto your support caster. Plan each phase carefully and pre-game consider casting priorities in different power dice scenarios i.e. 7 dice phase, 4 dice phase, 10 dice phase, etc.
Jimmy wrote:20 Phoenix Guard – FC, Banner of Sorcery
I like them, too. Lately I've been running lions, but PG are my favorite elites. Shadow is an excellent compliment to them with both withering and mindrazor to make them put the hurt on.
Jimmy wrote:2 Great Eagles
It's taking me time to get used to utilizing these guys properly. I think it's starting to click and it's because I'm telling myself to be patient with them and avoid advancing them so far from my main lines. I focus on keeping them covered but in range of where they need to be for the first couple of turns while my combat units move into position. Then, the turn before I plan on charging--plop goes the eagle, protecting the flanks. Two will serve you well.

Can't wait to read the first report!
Battle Standard Bearer. Don't leave home without it.
Bolt Thrower's High Elves
User avatar
Flame of the Asuryan
Posts: 970
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:56 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....

#3 Post by Flame of the Asuryan »

Great, the Classic Shadow list :) .

If you plan on casting Mind Razor on your core units, your list should do well with an Archerhorde. In my last tournament, I played a list similar to yours. Almost all spells combine really well with an archer horde (on top of the obvious combo's with spearelves).

- Miasma (movement - giving you another volley and obvious combat debuffs)
- The Withering (While spears have to be in combat, concentration of 50+ arrows on withered enemies is just...painful)
- Mind Razor. A horde formation of archers with Mind Razor is just as effective (3*7 attacks from archers vs 5*4 attacks from spears)

It's just so effective and versatile, that it is horrible.
-"Humans are the cruelest of animals" Friedrich Nietzsche -
SpellArcher
Green Istari
Posts: 13841
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Otherworld

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....

#4 Post by SpellArcher »

Nice list Jimmy!

That's a vicious magic phase. Open up with a 4-die Flames or Vaul's. Probably all his dice to stop it then he eats Book Shadow. You might be better off with the Crystal and a Ward or the Robe but the Book's got to be fun!

I'd usually put your BSB in the Spears. At this size they need him.

When you consider the number of powerful units that rely on Hatred re-rolls I think Balance is well worth a go. Plus I had it on my Lions in 7th. They never ran. Ever.
Jimmy
Centurion
Posts: 3307
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:55 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....

#5 Post by Jimmy »

Thanks for the comments all.

@Flame - you may be onto something with the spears/archers point, I'll have to have a few games with both and then report back but thanks for the idea.

@SpellArcher - I think the book list can be dangerous when combined with another mage because then once you start throwing dice at the non book mage the opponent really has to start making some tricky choices. Normally I wouldn't run the book but I'm determined to give my local gaming buddies a bit of a touch up and from a personal point of view I've been getting smashed up a bit lately so the plan is to be on the winning side of the table.

I love the standard of balance, although I think it's optimal for swordmasters over white lions purely because the swordmasters can dish out the volume of attacks but I'm willing to try anything and I think swordmasters work better in a life based list so I'll do that down the track sometime.

The standard can more or less effect something in every army or sometime entire armies like Dark Elves and Beastmen. Tomorrow night I'll be looking at taking down my opponents rat ogres that I know he'll have so after (fingers crossed) some withering and mass fire action to chew down some ablative wounds I'll be able to carve the remainder of the unit up. Secondly I know there will be an A-bomb or two so the archers will really be working overtime to ping some regen wounds on those.

Either way the excitement builds! :-p Post final list tonight when I get home.
Nec Sorte Nec Fato - Neither By Chance Nor Fate

X-wing Blog
User avatar
WillScarlet
Posts: 249
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:41 am
Location: Southern California

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....

#6 Post by WillScarlet »

My only suggestion is throwing a musician on that unit of Dragon Princes. Free Reforms are awesome with Heavy cavalry, and they could also be a sort of substitute for fast cavalry (they'd rally on leadership 10)
"On Friday night, a comedian died in New York".
User avatar
Lagast
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:30 pm

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....

#7 Post by Lagast »

Great to see this, I'll defiinitaly follow your progress.
I currently run PG en WL myself and I love the combination. Actually my list is very much familiar. Instead of supporting mage I have a lvl 1 High prince.
I hope to learn some from you future battle reports as well.
Good luck! :)
User avatar
Curu Olannon
Vindicated Strategist
Posts: 4929
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....

#8 Post by Curu Olannon »

100 battles is a lot, this'll surely shape up to be a nice thread ;)

As for the initial list, I'm a little concerned with magic defense. I would be tempted to take a metal level 2 with annulian crystal (as spell selection is almos always decent)!
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::
colusium
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:07 am

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....

#9 Post by colusium »

I m thinking about a list like this but without the book and with the robe and loremaster cloak plus silver wand.... Lsg instead of spears?
Jimmy
Centurion
Posts: 3307
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:55 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....

#10 Post by Jimmy »

@WillScarlet - Consider it done, good idea as I knew I was overlooking something.

@Lagast - hopefully something constructive comes out of it to help you out! :)

@Curu - as usual you're right, you've picked a bit of a weak area in my list but the thing that stands out about High magic for me is how cheap it is and secondly that extra spell in the form of drain magic which in its own right can provide some sort of defense providing it gets off of course. Yes I can still drop the seerstaff for the crystal and obtain a bit of extra defense. Wait a few games and see what happens! Metal is a great lore however against horde armies and lightly armoured it certainly loses it's punch I feel.

@colusium - I normally run the robe and talisman of saphery and silver wand which I think is a great build for shadow/life but I really want to present the opponent (dice rolls and winds of magic roll pending of course) with a magic phase that really puts them on the back foot right away. Yes no doubt when I really need it to change the game the fickleness of the magic phase will reveal itself to me and no doubt I'll change my list after that, but until then I'll keep playing with the book and a few different lists. I do like the loremaster cloak however there is too many spells out there that don't allow saves of any kind so I think the banner of world dragon is a better choice in that regard however that takes away the ability to buff your own units.

I love Seaguard and have a big block of 40, however I love spear elves and archers more. They have singular roles from the first turn and are shooting with penalties basically every turn because you'll be moving with them.

Anyway onto my confirmed list:

Level 4 AM – Shadow Lore, Book
Level 2 – High Lore, Seerstaff, Flames of the Phoenix, Vaul’s Unmaking
BSB – GW, 2+ re-rollable
29 Spearelves – FC
20 Archers – FC, flaming
10 Archers – Mus
5 Dragon Princes - Mus
20 Phoenix Guard – FC, Banner of Sorcery
29 White Lions – FC, Standard of Balance
2 Great Eagles

2499 points
Nec Sorte Nec Fato - Neither By Chance Nor Fate

X-wing Blog
colusium
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:07 am

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....

#11 Post by colusium »

Cool list i miss 9 wl and 20 archers to try it in campaign :(
User avatar
Curu Olannon
Vindicated Strategist
Posts: 4929
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....

#12 Post by Curu Olannon »

Metal vs Hordes - typical horde armies are as follows:
- Empire Halberdiers
- Skavenslaves
- OnG Goblins

So - vs Empire the default is almost always useful as you can throw it at his Steam Tank and / or Knights. Spell selection not a problem. Skaven usually sport very few armoured targets. Arguably the default is good against Doomwheel. Blades of aiban is good, as are glittering robe and final transmutation. The rest are somewhat poor here for their values etc. Overall, you stand a good shot at getting at least one useful spell, but it's not guaranteed. OnG rarely have armoured targets, apart from the Spider. Pretty much the same as Skaven.

So basically it's not as horrible as one might think. The worst thing you can get is facing Skaven without a Doomwheel and rolling Golden Hounds + Transmutation of Lead but this is quite rare.
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::
SpellArcher
Green Istari
Posts: 13841
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Otherworld

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....

#13 Post by SpellArcher »

One good thing is that list has potentially three powerful RIP spells. The opponent will often be tempted to burn PD to end them.

I agree on Balance being useful for Swordmasters. They cannot afford to lose a combat big.
Jimmy
Centurion
Posts: 3307
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:55 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....

#14 Post by Jimmy »

@Curu - I just can't help but feel that overall Shadow is a better lore, against hordes I have the withering and of course flames of the phoenix, pit/miasma for steam tank/other nasties. Don't get me wrong metal certainly has it's uses and I've been wanting to try a level 4 metal mage for some time so it will be on the cards eventually.
Nec Sorte Nec Fato - Neither By Chance Nor Fate

X-wing Blog
Jimmy
Centurion
Posts: 3307
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:55 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....

#15 Post by Jimmy »

Well Peanuts, my opponent has just phoned to drop the game to 1500 points so I'm a bit lost as to what to take, I'll have a play around but I don't think I'm going to like at all what I come up with, the main question is to take an Level 4 or not?

Thoughts highly appreciated.
Nec Sorte Nec Fato - Neither By Chance Nor Fate

X-wing Blog
Jimmy
Centurion
Posts: 3307
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:55 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....

#16 Post by Jimmy »

Disregard, no game tonight. :(
Nec Sorte Nec Fato - Neither By Chance Nor Fate

X-wing Blog
Jimmy
Centurion
Posts: 3307
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:55 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: The Journey of 100 battles.... Game 1 12/2/12

#17 Post by Jimmy »

Hey guys

Finally a battle to report!

High Elves vs Empire. I got to my mates house and he presented me with the following empire 'coven of light' list, wow what a challenge to begin with and straight away I felt like I was on the back foot!

My list for ease:

Level 4 AM – Shadow Lore, Book
Level 2 – High Lore, Seerstaff, Flames of the Phoenix, Vaul’s Unmaking
BSB – GW, 2+ re-rollable
29 Spearelves – FC
20 Archers – FC, flaming
10 Archers – Mus
5 Dragon Princes - Mus
20 Phoenix Guard – FC, Banner of Sorcery
29 White Lions – FC, Standard of Balance
2 Great Eagles

2499 points

Empire list:

Archlector on War Altar, with Great Weapon, Dawn Armour, VHS.
Wizard Lord of Life, lvl 4. Seal of Destruction, Immune to Panic Item
Wizard w/ Dispel Scroll
Wizard w/ Power stone (got banishment)
Wizard w/ Channelling Staff
BSB w/ Fullplate, Flaming Banner
Captain on Peg, w/ Lance, Pistol, Full Plate, Charmed Shield, Aldreds Casket of Sorcery.
40 Halberdiers FC
18 Xbows, champ muso
20 Swordsman FC
5 Flaggies w/ Prophet
10 Knights Full Command
Great Cannon
Great Cannon
Stank
5 Flaggies w/ Prophet.


So the idea is the walter hangs around the level 1's who are all bunkered in the Swordmen for protection coupled with a life mage to heal wounds from miscasts. So straight away the 3 big threats for me identified were the War Alter, the Steam Tank and the Coven of Light.

Pre-game thoughts:

This army had 3 components that could really dismantle my army and cause huge headaches, firstly the coven of light and the war alters ability for all of the light lore which could potentially turn the mediocre combat blocks into potent weapons, the steam tank which can tie up and grind nearly anything in the game and of course the coven of light sitting nicely back belting out S7 banishments on my Phoenix Guard to wittle the numbers down.

The other headache would be the captain on pegasus heading for my Archmage to destroy spells. If I could carefully place my level 2 or even use smoke and mirrors to switch and have a good shot at Vaul's then it would make a difference however it was going to be uphill purely because of the amount of channels my opponent was getting, the extra dispel dice from the Archlector and lastly the ability to dispel two spells and possibly destroy one!

This was going to be tough. I'd never first hand witnessed the 'congo' line and it's looking like a solid way to tie up enemy units with the flaggies, the unit matyrs and either draws combat or challenges so only the champion can be killed. The key here is to missile them to death or get a flank and destroy them but with so many threats I couldn't help but feel my opponent wasn't sharing my concerns!

Spell selection:

Archmage - Pit, Miasma, Enfeebling, Pendulum
Mage - Vauls, Flames of the Phoenix, Drain Magic

I didn't know what I was thinking here with taking Enfeebling as I had the opportunity to take withering instead which could have proved useful in combination with Flames of the Phoenix. Will remember for next time!

Level 3 - Earthblood, Throne, Flesh to Stone
Level 1 - Banishment
Level 1 - Gaze
Level 1 - Gaze
Level 1 - Gaze

Clearly the light wizards were mainly there to add strength to the banishment from the War Alter however seeing as one actually got it for spell selection aswell would prove to be problematic no doubt with double the chances of really causing some problems for the Phoenix guard!

Deployment:

Image

I managed to win the roll off with a comfortable +2 to the dice roll and opted to take the first turn. Just a quick note, in error I put the High Mage in the smaller archer unit however he was always in the large archer unit however this doesn't impact the battle at all and in my turn 2 he's shown as switching units.

High Elves 1:

No charges

Magic - 3+2+1 (9PD vs 8 DD)

The first thread I identify that can really foil my plans is a bus of knights hitting me in the flank so I figure I need to get rid of them. I consult the wonderful chart Curu recently uncovered for me and throw 4 dice at Miasma reducing the knights initiative by 3 (I1!) with a roll of doubles. I back it up with a large Pit which lands bang on target on the knights leaving the lone standard who passes his panic test. I did roll 2 x 6's on the casting roll and this detonation kills 5 PG and puts a wound on the AM. A good trade off and a great start to the game for me. I could only hope my luck would hold consistent!

Image

Empire 1:

No charges

Lone knight moves away to preserve the points of the entire unit so I'd have to try and take him out later in the game with either bow fire or a pendulum/pit.

Most of the enemy stays in place however the stank and captain move around the flank ready to envelope. Flaggies move up.

Magic - 3+2+1 (Empire channel)

Throne of vines goes up and I allow this through. Banishment is cast and I fail to dispel and it takes out 3 dragon princes however pass their panic test and I think how am I going to make use of them and have them still count for something towards the game.

Shooting

Eastern cannon shoots at the PG however it doesn't bounce and misses. The second cannon however targets the DP but falls short and kills 3 WL instead.

The crossbowmen add a further death to the WL.

Image

High Elves 2:

No charges

Archers enter the building for better position and some protection. Eagle setups flank charge on cannon.

Magic - 6+4+3 (12PD vs 9DD)

So a critical phase with another opportunity to remove a huge threat in the game being the juicy coven of light bunker. Time to get to work! I immediately dispel Throne of vines with 2 dice successfully. Opted to do this first rather than miscast with other spells and potentially lose dice. I throw 5D6 at Miasma and don't roll any doubles and my opponent dispels this. I use my last 5 to throw at Pit however I fail to meet the casting value!

This can really upset the plan!

Shooting

The archers drop 2 flagellants.

A less than impressive turn and it was beginning to feel like Turn 1 was going to be the high point of the game!!

Image

Empire 2:

No charges

Knight moves further away. Stank move in closer and the Captain moves in to steal a spell!

Magic - 6+4 (10PD vs 6 DD)

The captain rolls a 4+ and randomly steals pendulum, so that takes 50% of my magical options for dealing with the steam tank. Damn!

Burning gaze is cast on my archers in the building twice which sees 6 of their number toast however I pass the following panic test.

Banishment is cast on 6D6 and I manage to dispel this and then my opponent reveals the powerstone using this to cast banishment again on the PG however fails to meet the casting value thankfully for me!

Shooting

The steam tank engineer drops a WL with a pistol shot. The crossbowmen fail to wound the Western Eagle.

The eastern cannon easily destroys the Great eagle threatning the warmachine line whilst the second cannon shot harmlessly bounces off a Phoenix Guard.

Image

High Elves 3:

After much thinking I decide to declare a charge with my BSB onto the Peg rider to either kill him or get him out of range of stealing another spell. My opponent elects to flee (rolling 4"!!) with him so I re-direct into the flagellants.

I move the archers out of the building to take out the cannon or tempt my opponent to waste a round of shooting on them. The White Lions reform into 6wide to get through gap. Dragon princes move to attempt to block the steam tank from charging the BSB/White Lions in the flank. Phoenix guard march hard to charge next turn.

Magic - 6+1+3 = 10PD vs 9DD

A critical magic phase and I spend a lot of time weighing up what threat to attempt to remove first with the options being throwing miasma + pit at the swordmen bunker or just throwing a pit at the steam tank. I end up opting for the swordsmen as I feel I can delay the steam tank with the dragon princes for a turn at least and I want some Phoenix guard left to get into combat and I don't feel them taking punishment from banishment would help in the war effort!

I throw 5D6 at Miasma and fail the doubles so it is scrolled immediately. I back it up with 5D6 for a large pit and I fail to meet the casting value! I

manage to hold my tongue though and don't have an agressive outburst so for me that's a win in itself! :)

Shooting

The archers put a single wound on the eastern cannon.

Combat

The flaggies martyr killing 3 of them and leaving the prophet who is promptly dispatched by the BSB of course this leaves me in a bad situation in that I overrun and face a round of punishment or I reform and risk a charge from a steam tank. I opt to overrun and roll a healthy 11" taking me closer to the enemy line and of course the oncoming wave of crossbow bolts!

Image

Empire 3:

No charges (surprisingly)

Flaggies move to block WL, Stank moves to position next turn charge against PG. War Alter moves to block the flank of crossbowmen from eagle charge.

Magic - 5+2+1 = 8PD vs 5 DD

Captain fails to steal a spell thankfully!

Wizard casts banishment on the PG and I throw all my dice at it dispelling however it goes off again with the War Alter and 4 PG drop.

Shooting aka "The Nuln guide to killing a BSB"

So I had already envisioned some half arsed plan on how to proceed without the BSB before my opponent starts shooting away. The cannon opens up on the BSB hitting him easily and op rolls to wound and then the amount of wounds.....1. Grapeshot with the second cannon, 10 hits, 2 wounding and I save both.

The engineer adds his pistol shots however the Caledor armour proves too much for the blackpowder weapons and between the crossbows he proceeds to emerge after the smoke clears and the proud standard of Ulthuan flaps in the wind. Wow! Statiscally I think I just beat the odds by a large margin.

Image

High Elves 4:

Charges:

- Archers into the eastern cannon
- BSB into the western cannon
- Dragon Princes into Halberdiers
- Spearelves + White Lions into the Flaggies
- Phoenix Guard into the Swordsmen
- Archers into Captain (keep in mind this combat was much more central and not as close to any others!)

Magic - 5+4+3 = 12PD vs 8DD

So two sucky magic phases in a row, let's see if this one could stack the odds in my favour!

It's time to get rid of that steam tank otherwise it could really tip the game back into my ops favour. I throw 5D6 at it miscasting sucking the Steam Tank into oblivion however another S10 template strikes taking out some Swordsmen, another wound on the AM and dropping a PG. I use smoke and mirrors here to swap the position of the BSB with the AM in an attempt to give me better odds at doing damage in the combat and hoping the cannon crew have never used a sword before!

I only have a single dice left and throw it at Miasma however this is dispelled easily.

No shooting

Combat

Archers vs Cannon

The archers easily destory the crew and reform to face the West to support their general next turn.

White Lions + Spearelves vs Flaggies

WL Champ kills the prophet and the Spearelves dispatch the remaining zealots reforming to face the Halberdiers.

Dragon Princes vs Halberdiers

The dragon princes clearly enraged with the loss of their kin skewer 4 bodies and their steeds stomp a further 2, I lose one in return and win the combat which I wasn't expecting and the unit holds.

Archers vs Captain

I declare a challenge with the archer champion to delay the death of the Mage and secondly because I should win the combat for a few turns before the stomps and pegasus attacks start tipping the combat in his favour, obviously I fail to wound and the captain makes short work of the champion however I win the combat and reform into 4 ranks.

PG + BSB vs Swordsmen + Wizards

I delcare a challenge with my champion and he accepts with his wizard lord and both proceed to break dance rather than fight causing no wounds. Not impressed!

The BSB promptly kills a wizard. The PG drop 5 swordsmen including the champion and I take nil damage in return however the unit holds on steadfast.

Archmage vs Cannon

I was already wincing expecting my AM to be slotted however his agility training paid off as the cannon crew couldn't land a blow on the nimble elf, now just to hold on for one more turn before reinforcements arrive!

Image

Empire 4:

Charges

- Crossbowmen into PG flank

Magic - 2+2 - No steal!

Regrowth goes off healing the champion on the Swordsmen and 2 troops. Speed of light fails to meet the casting value.

Combat

Dragon Princes vs Halberdiers

The lone DP kills the unit champion and then falls in return.

Archers vs Captain

Once again I need to have my best chance at winning this combat so my Mage steps up to challenge and once again meets a sword to the neck for his troubles but buying valuable time for the unit. The captain continues to hold.


PG + BSB vs Swordsmen + Wizards + Crossbowmen + BSB

In the continuing challenge the break dance off continues with neither side crumbling to the encore of 'It's raining men', what a shame. :(

The BSB majorly depressed with the dancing slots 3 Crossbowmen opting for the non parry easy wounds. The PG kill a further 5 swordsmen including the champion and take 2 casualties in return. I win the combat however it doesn't shift the state of affairs. (Due to the champion being alive and the Wizard Lord I was unable to target the Level 1 wizards!)

Archmage vs Cannon

The Hoeth master manages to slice the throat of a cannon crew dropping him immediately however the remaining crewman holds firm.

Image

High Elves 5:

Charges

- Archers into Cannon
- Spearelves into Halberdiers - elect to hold
- White Lions into Halberdiers - elect to flee
- Great Eagle into Crossbowmen (poor illustration)

Magic - 6+1+1 (8PD vs 9 DD)

Another critical phase and hoping I could turn the tide of the combats. I cast enfeebling foe on the Pegasus Captain and ping his Strength value to 3, not ideal but better than being wounded on a 3+. I also attempt Miasma but this is dispelled.

Combat

Archmage + Archers vs Cannon

Between the archers and Archmage the last crew member is visciously killed and the archmage prevent the archers from overrunning. Damn!

Archers vs Captain

The archers do no wounds with his 2+ save however I receive 2 wounds in return with the now S3 hits which allows me to win on a musician however the captain holds refusing to give ground.

PG + BSB vs Swordsmen + Wizards + Crossbowmen + BSB

The mega dance off continues however the Wizard lord gets in a sneaky dagger kill to the neck dropping the champion. Oh dear how embarrassing.

The BSB kills 2 crossbowmen and the PG on the flank drops a further 1.

The PG kill a wizard and leave another on a single wound. The Swordsmen kill a PG in retaliation giggling as the Eagle misses with everything and fails to stomp and the combat holds.

Image

Empire 5:

No charges - Reason being the opponent was going to try and cast banishment on the Archmage netting him some big points.

The Halberdiers rally and face the spearelves.

Magic - 1+1 (1PD vs 1DD)

Wow, so this is what happens when you bank on a magic phase coming through for you. I dispel banishment very thankfully.

Combat

Archers vs Captain

The archers do nothing and take a further 2 casualties in response. The combat holds.

PG + BSB vs Swordsmen + Wizards + Crossbowmen + BSB

BSB challenges and the Crossbowmen champ steps up to have his head removed. The Phoenix guard drop another crossbowmen and drop the wizard lord.

The swordsmen drop another PG.

Down to the decider, the eagle misses with his attacks however a lucky stomp comes through and the opponents re-rollable break test isn't enough to prevent their nerves from falling through and the Eagle catches the unit in the following pursuit!

Image

High Elves 6:

No charges

I opt to conserve points and under no circumstance do I even want to toy with the possibility of losing a combat against the Halberdiers.

The AM joins the unit of archers to face the lone knight however in the magic phase I realised I made an error and should have moved him to the other side of the archers so the knight couldn't have hit combat and directed attacks at him.

Magic - 3+2+2 (7PD vs 5DD)

Time to get rid of this War Alter. I throw 2D6 at Miasma and get 2 x 4's and drop the Initiative by 3. I then throw 4D6 at a small pit getting it off and sinking the war alter and Arch Lector into the afterlife.

My opponent dispells Enfeebling Foe.

Shooting

Archers bounce off the lone knight.

Combat

Archers vs Captain

Captain drops another 2 archers and the combat holds.

PG + BSB vs Swordsmen + Wizards

Swordsmen fail their fear test.

The BSB is challenged by the wizard and puts 3W into the resolution pool.

The PG drop another 4 swordsmen and they fail to do any damage back turning tail and exposing themselves to Elven fury and getting cut down in the chase.

This proceeds to be the perfect outcome for me and the PG block the Knight from charging the AM.

Image

Empire 6

Charges

- Knight onto Archers - fail

Combat

Archers vs Captain

Captain drops another 2 archers however he breaks and is pursued although I can't remember if I caught him or not however I'm sure this didn't change the outcome of the game.

Image

Result - Victory to the High Elves!

Unit of the match:

Honours clearly go to the Archmage:

Image

In total he was responsible for taking out the following:

Disabling the Knight Bus
Destroying the Steam Tank (300 points)
Destroying the War Alter (250+ points)

So out of the 3 major threats I identified at the beginning of the game I was able to neuter 2 with magic, even though the steam tank didn't make a difference to the game when I missed out in the earlier magic phases had I not nailed it in turn 4 I'm sure it would have wrecked havoc upon my White Lions and possibly entered the combat with the Archers vs Captain swinging it in his favour.

Conclusion:

Well a great game to get back into the swing of things. So how did I feel I performed? Well I won the game however that still doesn't answer the question. Obviously my opponent missed out on a massive opportunity to sink my Book of Hoeth Archmage into the ground but he only rolled 1+1 for winds which was just bad luck or good luck for me. Deployment was ok. Should I have perhaps concentrated on removing Casket? Maybe however then this directly took away my ability to damage and even intimidate the opponent with the thought of a pit lurking around. I was very lucky that my Pit's didn't scatter at all so no doubt next game they'll be all over the map but wait and see.

The major gripe I have is that the White Lions didn't see combat, an insult to the entire Province of Chrace! The Flagellants really put them into a poor position that I wasn't able to recover from and I couldn't even get a flank charge on the captain due to having to maximise models in base to base so it closed the line of sight off to the Captains flank.

As for list changes, having more archers instead of spearelves could have proved useful in causing more casualties early game and even reducing the numbers of the halberdiers significantly. Secondly this raises the question that the WHite Lions could have possibly got into combat as you'd hope another block of archers would have taken out the congo line of Flagellants allowing them free roam to charge a target. Bit of food for thought though as taking them coupled with Mindrazor just pours out a ridiculous amount of high strength attacks that leaves the enemy dusted.

Turn 4 alternative

After the battle and actually after turn 4 I immediately thought I should have moved the eagle into a blocking position to prevent the crossbowmen from getting into the flank of the Phoenix guard. Obviously this would have allowed them to win their combat perhaps quicker but then again it also raises the question if the crossbowmen and BSB would have eventually got into the archers to support the Captain on Pegasus and swung that combat. Certainly brings up a point though in regards to me placing my eagles a little better.

Image

Thanks very much for taking the time to read this first report of many and I look forward to any thoughts on the battle.

:)
Last edited by Jimmy on Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Nec Sorte Nec Fato - Neither By Chance Nor Fate

X-wing Blog
SpellArcher
Green Istari
Posts: 13841
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Location: Otherworld

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....Battle 1 12/2/12

#18 Post by SpellArcher »

Thanks for that, a lot going on there.

I didn't think your opponent got enough out of his 8 characters. In contrast Pit was lethal, though the Seermage didn't do so much here. It felt like once the combats started you were always on top. Wild move throwing the AM at the cannon but it worked a treat!
User avatar
Elessehta of Yvresse
Well played Sir
Posts: 7811
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:46 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia
Contact:

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....Battle 1 12/2/12

#19 Post by Elessehta of Yvresse »

He identified the danger of the White Lions and stopped them from contributing much, he did however underestimate the rest of your army, well played Sir.
[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34506][i]Lord Elessehta Silverbough of Ar Yvrellion, Ruler of Athel Anarhain, Prince of the Yvressi.[/i][/url]
[quote="Narrin’Tim"]These may be the last days of the Asur, but if we are to leave this world let us do it as the heroes of old, sword raised against evil![/quote]
User avatar
Swordmaster of Hoeth
Southern Sentinel
Posts: 4479
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:01 am
Location: On the path of an outcast

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....Battle 1 12/2/12

#20 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi Jimmy!

That is an interesting idea with 100 battles. It might look like a long journey but games add in quickly, especially if you manage to get a tournament or two in the process :)

It is a tough list you took with many very useful toys and true to 8th edtion style of big units. Although not all of the items/spells had a chance to prove useful we both know they are and I am sure they will shine in other games too. In this game BoH definitely helped against so many dispel dice and his scrolls.

His list was not light weigth either so I think it was a good match up for both of you. It was certainly interesting to see that first row of wizards performing. Speaking of which, I think some of them should be in the second rank as command group has priority in that regard. However, maybe it is just the way you represented them in the diagram.

I wanted to ask about the Power Stone. It seems to me that he might have used all his dice and then he revealed the Stone. If that was indeed the case I am afraid it might have been an honest mistake. The description of the item tells clearly you need at least one power dice to add power stone effect to it. Just wanted to clarify what was the situation.

As to alternative round 4 you have laready identified a better option. PG might be tough but there is no way to risk that flank charge and their ward save might not be enough sometimes. Fortunately you managed to grind down both enemies and in that case the eagle was indeed very useful. Hence not placing it was not such a big mistake but just a thing to consider for future games.

What was the distance between Lions, Spears and Halbardiers? I think I would go into that fight with lions alone even. Although I don't know how many of them were left you had a lot of attacks hitting on 3+ with re-roll and wounding on 2+ with no save allowed. Even if they held you would be winning the combat and then could add spears to the equations (moving them to flank halberds too!). I fully understand your concern here and there is nothing wrong in playing safe. I just think it fels better for lions and you didn't risk losing them in my opinion.

Thanks for the report and good luck on your journey :)

Cheers!
Image

Twitter @SwordOfHoeth

High Elves MSU - Observations
Rabidnid wrote:Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?
Bolt Thrower
Posts: 2021
Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 3:13 am
Location: Illinois, USA

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....Battle 1 12/2/12

#21 Post by Bolt Thrower »

Thanks for the report!

Seems like it was a solid game to kick off your journey. I was impressed with your smoke and mirrors tactic--who knew the AM would survive something like that, but your shrewd move gave him the best chance. Though just the first game, your book mage really showed how many dice he commands. Unless I missed it or it was left unsaid, the seer mage didn't even attempt a single cast before his noble sacrifice in turn 4. Do you think that the two of them will be able to have synergy considering how many dice the book will use?

Congrats on the win! I look forward to reading more!
Battle Standard Bearer. Don't leave home without it.
Bolt Thrower's High Elves
Jimmy
Centurion
Posts: 3307
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:55 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....Battle 1 12/2/12

#22 Post by Jimmy »

Apologies please gents as I made an error on the opponents list, he was only running 3 light wizards not the forth, he emailed me the list tonight so I've updated the battle report post.

Will make some comments/replies tomorrow.

:D
Nec Sorte Nec Fato - Neither By Chance Nor Fate

X-wing Blog
User avatar
Curu Olannon
Vindicated Strategist
Posts: 4929
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....Battle 1 12/2/12

#23 Post by Curu Olannon »

Hey Jimmy! First of all, let me congratulate you on your first game. I know the feeling very well, you've had loads of frustrating moments, been through the book literally dozens of times to hopefully find your own style of play with a strong list. As you eventually get down to it, you're hoping that it'll prove to be as strong as you'd hoped, of course!

In your case, as with my Dragonlord, your first game proved to be a real baptism of fire: that Empire list looks nasty and sports a lot of tricks that could easily ruin any High Elf player's day. You did well though and got a win - always a good start for any list and general :)

Now I assume that in posting this up, you are mostly looking for feedback. At least personally, while I can certainly appreciate the 'well done' comments, it is the feedback that I'm primarily looking for which will help me improve as a player. As such, I'd like to comment on a few things:

The format on the battle report is good, it's easy to read and see what's what. However, I do think a title would be the icing on the cake! I also find that, when looking back at my own reports, the title makes it way easier to remember the game. I really appreciate you posting the lists, even though yours is in the thread already it can change, and going back to read this later (which I probably will, at some point!) will be that much harder.

Your list looks good @2500 points, but I do believe that the level 2 is a bit of a miss. Most importantly, your magic defense is somewhat lacking and secondly I believe he's too expensive. I would take a lvl 1 High Magic wizard with Annulian Crystal. The saved points could beef the PG or give you a couple of tools (e.g. Gem of Courage for PG or Amulet of Light for White Lions). Ethereal units will be a problem for you and I think it's worth considering this.

Pre-game thoughts - your analysis is spot on. The fact that you're considering how to capitalize on Smoke and Mirrors proves that you've really done your research with this kind of list (as it's a fairly seldom used lore attribute) and properly identified advantages with the magic setup.

Spell selection - I would've liked to see the rolls when selection is as crucial as it was here. Overall I'm not sure Withering would be better here - the synergy with Flames is impossible to get through (save for IF) against this army and I think you're better off reducing incoming damage to WL + PG than making it easier to hurt him (really, these 2 units do this quite well without magical help!).

Deployment - I think you did very well here! Getting Spears + Lions vs his big blocks and PG on the flank is brilliant. This allows for a potentially game-breaking enveloping manoevre, if you can just get control of the East flank.

T1 - using a chart is really a no-brainer! I'm glad to hear you've incorporated it into your gaming habits :) If you would like to, I could create a chart specifically for Book of Hoeth (I don't think this exists?) and post it up here? Using the big Pit was a risk but I think it was worth taking. As I said further up, if the East flank belongs to you, the game could very well be won! PS - what did your shooting do here - did they all march?

T2 - White Lions are patient while PG move to secure the flank. I love your patience - even in the face of artillery + banishment you manage to keep your cool and wait for the elements to get to where they need to be. I think that rushing the Lions forward here could've very well lost you the game if your opponent had capitalized on it. Tough luck on the magic phase, however on average (even with Book) you've had good results thus far. PS - was the pit boosted? In this situation, I would not boost it I think.

T3 - I'm a little unsure of your intentions with PG here. I do believe that going more straight ahead would be a viable one: this would threaten his cannons - but more importantly: if his bunker turned to face you, they'd have to advance in the woods (losing steadfast) or turn around - leaving everything else out of arc (banishment is a magic missile, thus requiring forward arc) and losing the opportunity to support with xbows. Again, I think boosting pit is a mistake. Your BSB had his fair share of luck here ;)

T4 - finally the setup you need! I'm a bit unsure of the DP charge though, but it's a gamble which can hugely pay off. As you identified yourself, blocking the xbows with your Eagle is probably the right course of action here: you only get a couple of attacks their way and in return, he's looking at a static bonus of at least 3 (rank, charge, flank). In your magic phase here, Smoke and Mirrors was brilliant: neither place was a good place for an Elf Mage but the War Machine was by far the least dangerous one! Good call. What was your original plan here? I would've prioritized Enfeebling on Swordsmen I believe, in which case you could've decided to keep your Archmage in that fight instead (with the miscast and loss of dice though it's better to swap out). I don't think you could've cast Pit on the STank here though, as Pit's direct damage and it doesn't look like the STank is in your forward arc.

T5 & T6 - when he fled - why didn't your WL redirect into the central combat? Again, Banishment cannot be cast on your Archmage as he's not in his Wizard's forward arc. The rest of the game was pretty much straight-forward, in my opinion :) Well played, can't wait to see the next!
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::
User avatar
John Rainbow
Posts: 3550
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:47 am
Location: PA, USA

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....Battle 1 12/2/12

#24 Post by John Rainbow »

An interesting read! Gratz on the win too. My main thoughts are on your magic phase. I play Empire a lot too so know how frustrating they can be at countering out magic. All those extra dispel dice add up!

You are having exactly the same issue I had with the BoH. Empire has so many additional DD that you need something like the book to have a chance of getting off spells. However, it's a double edged sword. When you don't get off a spell your opponent has plenty of dice left to dispel and when you do your second mage is reduced to a bystander. If you look at the units that weren't effective at all for you, your second mage was a waste of points here. Whilst using him in a challenge helped you out, this isn't a great way to use 200 odd points. He didn't cast a single spell that I saw. If you feel you have to take him - and I'm not sure you do with the BoH - I would def. drop to a lvl 1 and simply take a dispel scroll. Take Shield of Saphery and go with it. Or take shadow to ensure you get the spells you want on the AM.

Another issue I am also dealing with at the moment is how to use eagles more effectively. I have been tending to use them too early and I think you might be doing the same. Your post-game thoughts on how to use them better or differently was really good to see. My other thoughts about the list involve the archer champ. which was actually effective here. Normally I'd recommend against it but in this situation he was helpful. I'd also reconsider the banner of balance on the WLs. Is it really going to help that much? Perhaps yiou could use those points for something else? Magical attacks for example might be more useful.

Keep it up and good luck with the next game!
Jimmy
Centurion
Posts: 3307
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:55 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....Battle 1 12/2/12

#25 Post by Jimmy »

Thanks for reading and thanks for the comments everyone.

@SpellArcher - My apologies, I didn't copy his list down that well so he only had 7 characters, I added in one too many level 1 mages, damn cheap empire! :)

You're absolutely right in regards to the seermage, he literally only got killed to prolong a combat and that's a very expensive way to ensure that happened. He didn't cast the whole game which begs the question is he required. Against horde armies he could be fantastic but I'll have to wait and see, I'll reserve judgement for the time being.

@SM - A tournament or two would be great but that's not the aim. The main goal is just to know the army inside and out.

I didn't illustrate the deployment of the wizards correctly as what you say is right, he had the life wizard and a light wizard in the first rank and the remaining were protected for a while due to the champion regrowing and the epic dance off between the Phoenix Guard champion and the wizard lord.

On the power stone, my opponent did save a single dice for this. I'm just happy the plan didn't go through because but the time the game ended I have 5-6 Phoenix guard left I think so any more casualties from banishment really could have changed the oncoming combat.

In regards to the spearelves/WL charge on turn 6, bascially I didn't need to do it to win, so in order to maintain the 'arrogant' pride of the Asur why would I do it? :) In gaming sense though the spearelves should have made the charge however I wasn't sure about the White Lions as they were a few inches being the Spearelves position. I would have much rather shuffle back and in the unlikely event he charged me then there is a chance he will fail and I'll gain more attacks hitting back.

@Bolt Thrower - It was certainly a pat on the back to get a win against that list. As soon as I saw the list I knew it was going to be an uphill battle as it literally had all the tools to methodically take apart my army.

Yes you're right, the seer mage didn't even cast a thing. I'm perhaps thinking he could be overkill however in the magic phase that the level 4 fails to cast (which did happen) it would be nice at least to be able to attempt something but it's a cost hero to have sitting there not doing anything whole game.

@Curu - I've certainly had frustrations with warhammer but 90% of them don't spawn from the High Elves hence the reason I'm back playing them, they're reliable and solid in comparison to what I was playing with.

You're right about the level 2 and magic defence. Currently my best magic defence is to kill the enemy magic users, it's that primitive and not overly reliable. It's something I'll certainly have a think about this week and tweak the list somewhat. Getting the amulet of light in the list would certainly be a worthy addition with the new VC though.

I'll be sure to add the dice rolls for spell selection next game.

You're right about the withering/flames combo so this is something that's being dissected in my head at the moment and revised. The level 1 could be the answer here.

The chart you gave me already has the book on it so no need to go to any hard work but thank you.

T1 - Big pit was required to touch all the knights and there is difference of 5 between small and large pit so I took the gamble and luckily for me it paid off.

The smaller archers marched to get a foothold in the building and I was going to put the larger unit into a position to get some shooting on the enemy so they marched as well with enough room for the PG to get through.

T2 - Yes a boosted Pit was attempted, from memory I rolled 1+2+2+1+4 so it just wasn't going to be even a small one! :p

T3 - Intentions with the PG was to get them into combat to take out the coven, by this stage I'd missed my opportunity to Pit them as the Steam Tank and War Alter were going to start making their presence felt in upcoming combats so I really needed an answer to them whilst engaging the coven. Secondly if my Phoenix Guard are in combat then I'm not taking damage from Banishment with them.

That's a good observation on the Phoenix Guard and moving directly 'north'. This would have also cleared the lines for the archers to shoot.

On banishment the problem is they still would have got stung from the war altar and I've no doubt my map doesn't give an accurate representation of the LOS arcs.

T4 - I guess the main plan here was to pin down the pegasus captain and making as much distance between him and the Archmage to prevent him from stealing anything vital to the game.

Had I played correctly this turn would have totally changed. Firstly as you've pointed out I couldn't have cast Pit at the Steam Tank from that position (I've never known this so great to be corrected) so that changes everything.

If I had knock this I probably would have cast Flames of the Phoenix into the Swordmen combat to cut their numbers and removing steadfast. Had I cast enfeebling it wouldn't have impacted on the wounds I caused, merely the wounds I took back so steadfast wouldn't have been negated. Best case scenario had this happened and I defeated the unit I would have reformed to face the Xbowmen with the now blocking eagle setting them up for a charge next turn.

Obviously with the Steam Tank still in play this changes things again, it would have no doubt hit the White Lions and being stubborn I'd like to think they would have held but without mindrazor it would have been difficult though not unlikely trying to get rid of it through sheer attacks.

One thing I'd like clarification on though at what point does smoke and mirrors kick in? Could I have used it to move to the cannon crew and effectively kill the cannon crew with the template or is there an order to it? I know you resolve the spell effects first and the lore attribut states as soon as the spell is cast so I would think this is a valid tactic?

T5 & T6 - Once again my ability to use battle chronicler didn't match my gaming skills this time. The White Lions weren't in a position to charge as the archers were blocking there line of sight to join the combat against the pegasus captain. Because I had to maximise models against his base it left me out. Hopefully this picture demonstrates this a little better.

Image

On Banishment once again ignore my illustration as he could clearly be seen.

@John - Empire are certainly great at having the resources to shut down an ops magic phase, although I think when they get re-written something will happen with the priests to stop this being abused but we'll wait and see.

I totally agree about the second mage and that could have potentially been another flanking unit of Dragon Princes which when put into comparison like that is incredible. Even having a Lion Chariot with a small frontage to hit things in the flank (like a Pegasus Captain!) after hiding from cannons would have been a welcomed sight but it's just something I'll have to have a think about.
Nec Sorte Nec Fato - Neither By Chance Nor Fate

X-wing Blog
User avatar
Curu Olannon
Vindicated Strategist
Posts: 4929
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....Battle 1 12/2/12

#26 Post by Curu Olannon »

With regards to the Book and chart: what the chart does not show is your chance of getting IF with Hoeth for a certain value. It simply lists the chance of rolling doubles, but as we know the Book also needs to meet the casting value. It wouldn't be a lot of work really ;)

T1 - if your Archers were within 1" of the building you could've entered it here instead of T2
T2 - gotcha, still though in this case I believe that the added scatter distance and bigger casting value means that it isn't worth it
T3 - LoS arcs can be hard to properly represent in BC
T4 - Next time you'll remember direct damage is only in the front arc ;) It's important to remember when people play against you and try to do insane stuff like flying a Tzeentch lord caster into your ranks to cast Gateway behind him and Treason to his flank (illegal).

Thanks for the clarifying picture!
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::
Brewmaster_D
Posts: 579
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:27 am
Location: Kitchener, Ontario

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....Battle 1 12/2/12

#27 Post by Brewmaster_D »

Hey Jimmy!

Great game - definitely a tough opponent to take on for your first try with a list. Most things that popped into my mind have already been covered, so I just have one thing to add:

In your turn 3, you elect to charge the BSB out of the unit against his Captain. To me it looks like the move here to take out his Captain might have been to charge the lions into the flagellants, decline his champion's challenge, kill the flagellants and overrun into the captain. This deprives him of the charge reaction. Unless of course there's some nonsense in the rules about wounds on a champion not spilling over into rank and file. If this is the case, I'd be pretty pissed at my opponent for those tactics. This would also make put high priority on shooting those 5 wound T3 units, as well as prioritize putting laxative in his drink.

That last turn pit on the Arch Lector was mint. The only thing better to watch fall in a pit is a Steam Tank. Oh wait, you did that too. There should be some kind of medal for this.

Really enjoyed the report, keep 'em coming!

D
[i]There is nothing do fear but fear itself... well, that and Toughness tests. [/i]

Check out my Army Blog for tactics, battle reports and general ramblings: [url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=35454]Brewmaster D's Coven of Light Army List Blog[/url]
[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=35478]The Art of Deployment[/url]
[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=35380]Writing Army Lists[/url]
Jimmy
Centurion
Posts: 3307
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:55 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....Battle 1 12/2/12

#28 Post by Jimmy »

I've been meaning to update this for a while and even though I'm not exactly playing High Elves currently it's still worth documenting battles I've had.

I'm currently playing the game with Tomb Kings and have been enjoying the challenges they present and yes its a bit of threadomancy however after compiling nearly 20 battles since this was first posted it's time for a much needed update.

I've updated the first post with a link to the battles and also included a tactical article I wrote on Necropolis Knights.

---


Disclaimer: I don't pretend to be a good player at all so take all my tactical ramblings in your stride, read the article, take away from it what works for you, apply feedback and hopefully I've added an idea or some food for thought for your current setup.

"Even if a snake is not poisonous, it should pretend to be venomous." - Chanakya

Image

Hey All

After being a little bored and enjoying writing articles I thought I'd present my first tactical article on my favourite unit in our current book. The Necropolis Knights bring a few things to the table that aren't matched by any other unit in the book without combination:

Key points to note:

- Speed
- Armour
- Damage output
- Damage resistance
- EBTS
- Fear

The first key point being speed, in an army of shuffling bone it's a pretty important one. M7 and Swiftstride allows us to get into good positions (as opposed to most other units) and make reliable charges when the time is right.

They've got the best armour save in the Tomb Kings army, however don't go thinking that's an automatic pass to throw them into the thickest of fighting as you'll be sure to come away disappointed. They do have the potential to soak up some damage provided they're pitched into the correct combat with the correct support elements.

The damage output a unit of Knights can produce is once again I believe (without character support) is hands down the best our army reliably has access to, each base nets you 5 attacks plus a stomp. Throw some killing blow attacks and enemy characters/armoured units are fair game and secondly poisoned attacks for the mounts and you've got a very versatile unit that is great at dishing out the hurt. Once you start adding magical buffs to the picture the results just multiply rapidly.

On damage resistance a unit of knights is certainly worth of mention. At T4 and 3 wounds a piece and of course with a good armour save they're fairly hardy to most small arms fire and magic missiles. War machines however will have a field day but depending on what is in the rest of your army you could find they're not the number 1 target.

The last point I wish to touch on is this unit is capable of using the ETBS rules. Certainly nothing game breaking but it has the potential to setup some very good tactical options and its never fun to have your units surrounded regardless of the threats. This is certainly one area where I lack experience but I will certainly be looking into it more and more.

Certainly not as powerful as it once was but still worth a mention. Having your opponent hitting on 5's or 6's can go a long way to saving your Knights so be sure you always have your opponent roll a fear check every combat round.

Unit options:

Size: This all comes down the personal preference and what you intend to do with the units. If you're using them as shields then units of 5-6 work great as they've got the wounds to soak up and they can 'guard' units behind them with their large foot print. Units of 4 work well for hunters and units of 3-4 work great as entombed units to get flank and rear charges. This will also minimize losses if they fail to appear for the game.

Command: Depending on the unit size Full command can be a great option. 4 is the amount I would run before putting a standard in the unit. The champion is a handy upgrade for three reasons, firstly he's got a good chance at dropping enemy characters and gaining an underdog bonus. Secondly if you lose the champion and a further Nehekharan augment spell is cast on the unit then your champion gets back up on a single wound - it's nothing game breaking but certainly something to keep in the back of your mind that you can re-gain 5 attacks with a single spell. Lastly and this again comes down to what formation you're running your Knights in, if the unit is charged in the flank and only a single snake is in combat it may be useful to challenge and/or put the unit champion on the receiving end of the damage so your unit can only take a maximum of 3 wounds and crumble a further few wounds allowing you to reform and even the odds a little next combat phase hopefully!

Seeing as unit champions are unable to use the 'Make Way' rule you'll have to use a bit of nous here and position the champion on the flank if you suspect a flank charge coming on or if you're stuck in a position you can't get out of. I'm honestly a little hazy on this area so need to grab my rule book and then clear this area up.

Entombed: With a small investment you can pay to have your unit/s ambush. Great for some builds but it always adds that element of risk with the unit misfiring and not turning up.

WARNING

Be sure to never mix your Necropolis Knights into a combat with non animated constructs unless the circumstances are dire or for whatever reason you'll annihilate the enemy before they get to strike back. They're expensive wounds to lose via crumble. ;)

Types/Builds:

For me there are 3 main builds when considering a unit of Necropolis Knights and assigning them a role:

1. Snake Shield

I build my army around this tactic currently and for it I find it's effective as it combines the Knights ability to soak a bit of damage before absorbing charges and then dealing the counter attack.

Deployment is typically with the Knights shielding the softer/shootier elements of the army allowing them the maximum amount of time to inflict casualties on the oncoming threats. This castled up formation ensures that the support elements are within range of the Knights. It certainly comes across as a very static tactic for the Tomb Kings and it is, but I've had nothing but good results from using this build. The enemy advances whilst constantly under a wall of fire from war machines and archer fire hopefully taking maximum casualties before hitting the wall. A Necrotect here often serves as a great way to add another tiny failsafe into the save of the Necro Knights benefiting both units.

Some deployments from previous games:

Image

Image

This build is all about delaying the enemy and inflicting casualties on them before they hit our lines. Combined with magic support you can really force the enemy into some tricky situations or increase your threat range with Birona's Timewarp to give them second thoughts about moving into your threat range.

In this image the unit of Knights absorbs a charge from a ranked unit of Halberdiers and a War Altar protecting my archers and casters in the backlines. They eventually proceeded to killing blow the Arch lector and break the halberdiers securing the West flank.

Image

2. Hunters

The 'Snake Shield' is an army built around two units of large knights. In a 'Hunters' role the unit of Knights more become a support element or a main combat unit depending on the unit size. With a unit assigned to this role you'll actively look to deploy them on a flank picking your combats carefully as per usual. Here you'll be looking to support your units of knights with combo charges from other elements of your army. Units of 4 work well at this role when combined with another animated construct or sufficient magical augmentation is provided.

3. EBTS

Entombed Necropolis Knight units have a very specific purpose. To get behind or flank the enemies main combat blocks and cause some havoc. Don't war machine hunt with this unit unless there is nothing better to do and if that's the case you've probably already won. All the same principles here apply with allowing them to join a combat with another animated construct for optimal results.

In the battle below I pinned a unit of warriors with a Warsphinx whilst the entombed unit of snakes arrived next turn to annihilate the enemy. The Warsphinx and unit of Knights then continued to rampage the Eastern flank for the remainder of the game.

Image

Support

Like with any unit we have access to, it only really truly shines when supported with the correct elements. This doesn't necessarily always mean to join a combat with the Knights but rather setup various tactical avenues for you to exploit from delaying the enemy and prevent charges through to declaring charges to gain some more combat resolution and tip a combat in your favour.

Horse Archers - Delay

In this example I used the Horse archers to pull the opponents Chaos warriors towards my lines to get them in a favourable charge distance for my knights whilst a lone Horse Archer blocks the path to a charge against the Necropolis Knights.

Image

Hierotitan - Combat

The Hierotitan is primarily used to boost our magic but towards to later turns of the game he can find himself in some great positions to charge and support combats or at least delay units from getting into our backlines. He's not the quickest or the slowest unit in our army so careful deployment will dictate where he'll end up so try and be mindful of this next time you game with him. Try and charge him into the flanks/corners of a unit to avoid any damage as yes he is T6 but his armour save isn't great. You basically want him for the amount of damage he can tally up with it's S6 Thunderstomp.

In this example the Hierotitan really tipped the combat in my favour by adding his S6 Thunderstomp and careful placement meant he was taking minimal attacks back.

Image

Warsphinx/Necrosphinx - Combat

I'll put these under the same entry but between the two I think they're nearly the best double team act you can assign to helping out the Necropolis Knights. With T8 and assuming you've picked your combat carefully your opponent will have two options, attempt to get through your 3+ armour save or alternatively try and roll some lucky 6's to wound. With killing blow attacks all around you can be sure your opponent will hold his breath if he's got any characters leading those units. Once again Thunderstomp can certainly help here.

Necrolith Colossus - Combat

Another winner however follow the same principles with the Hierotitan.

Necrotect - Support

I've used the Necrotect a few times to remain within 12" of a single or sometimes both units of Knights at the regeneration can certainly help at times save the odd wound here and there but you can probably find better things to spend your points on.

As you can see the optimal unit support elements for combat are all in the shape of other Animated Constructs, this is clearly to prevent crumble damage from spilling over and taking out our high point investment units. It's certainly not saying that you can't mix and match however it's a risk and you should weigh up all your options and do the maths of the oncoming combat to ensure you'll come out on top. Run through a quick breakdown of the following and then make the choice:

Are you charging?
Does your opponent have ranks/standards/BSB?
Characters support?
Predicted damage? (Both you and your opponents)
Unit support incoming? (Both you and your opponent)
Can you reliably augment the non-construct?
How will this combat effect the remainder of the game?

If you were to support the Necropolis Knights with a non animated construct unit then I'd lean heavily towards Tomb Guard because chances are they'll have a Prince/King to support them giving them the WS boost and making them a little more harder to hit. Secondly chariots provided they're augmented well could make an ok support unit.

Magic Support

Yes this section deserves its very own.

Firstly I think that the Lore of Light has the best synergy with the Necropolis Knights. Lore of Death helps directly IMO with only two factors, Soul blight and Doom and Darkness. They're certainly great to have but I think Light as a whole can bring more to the table.

Spells to look for when your snakes are on the offensive (that is charging S3/4 enemies) are as follows in random order:

Incantation of Smiting (taking your base attacks from 5 per model to 7? Yes please)
Birona¡'s Timewarp (same as above + ASF)
Speed of Light (Hitting on 3's)
Incantation of Desiccation (Easier to wound opponents)
Soulblight (as above)

Spells to look for when playing on the defensive or being charged by an enemy with Strength greater than 4 in random order:

Pha's Protection (harder to hit)
Incantation of Protection (Ward off some damage)
Speed of Light (harder to hit again)
Incantation of Desiccation (tougher to wound snakes)
Soulblight (as above)

An honourable mention goes to Doom & Darkness in order to get an enemy to fail a fear test however it doesn't make the list because no doubt a BSB/General will be around and you basically have to pass two tests to get this off (casting roll and opponent fail) where as any of the other spells you only need to cast.

Post combat however we've still got a lot of options to delay the enemy allowing us to inflict as many casualties to make the snakes jobs much easier, these include but are not limited to the following and are in no particular order:

Incantation of Desiccation/Soulblight + Net - I realise that getting Soulblight and net off is highly unlikely as that would mean running a lore of light and death priest in the same list which is unlikely but it's still possible. If you manage to cast any of these spells it allows more damage to sink through to the opponents in the form of S3 arrows and SSC plates. Secondly if you're lucky enough to get Net off as well the opponent has to test against his S value in order to do anything at all which can become quite frustrating especially when they fail at a lower S value.

Incantation of Vengeance - One of our best spells. Warhammer is won and lost in the movement phase so if you can potentially hinder a units movement phase you can effectively dictate where they will end up.

Incantation of Smiting - Once again worthy of a mention but more so with our archer units to support the knights prior to combat. Chew those ranks down so your knights are able to engage the unit, smash it up and not get bogged down and destroyed.

Doom & Darkness - Receives another mention here for panic tests alone from missile fire/war machine fire.

Sneaky Tricks

Now consider that these may or may not work any of the time but they're still options so should be considered even for a split second.

Firstly the Necrotect. If geared with a ward or 2+ save with a single re-roll he can probably take a bit of damage before turning to dust. I've never done this but have often entertained the idea. Prior to the enemy charging your unit of Knights (probably 'Snake Shield' would be most applicable here) have your Necrotect join the unit of snakes for some Hatred goodness. One trick pony no doubt but I'd like to see angry snakes one day. ;)

Krael also brought up gearing a HLP with the Death Mask. If sat right behind a wall of snakes in a single rank his mask will effect whatever unit is in combat with the snakes negating them a precious 'Stand Your Ground' roll and the enemy General's Inspiring presence. If you're lucky enough to pop a doom & darkness through as well then odds are you could be in a good position to cut down a fleeing opponent.

Also worthy of mention is the inclusion of the special character Necrotect Rhamotep who grants a random animated construct with a re-rollable armour save. If you take nothing but Knights then a 3+ armour save becomes pretty tough to get through.

Conclusion:

Necropolis Knights are a flexible tool capable of strong damage output in combat combined with a good armour save. Use them wisely and they're equipped to take down enemy units in unison with a solid support network. Treat them right and they'll pay dividends.

In summary:

Snake shields - Units of 5-6 with Full command
Hunters - Units of 4 with Standard/Mus
EBTS - Units of 3-4 with Standard

What to aim at:

S3/4 enemies
Armoured Infantry/Cavalry
Characters

What to avoid:

S5+ enemy units
Helblaster Volley Guns (absolutely mince our Knights so remember the 24" range!)

I hope you've found something of use within this article and can either enhance your current games with the inclusion of Necropolis Knights or have learnt another trick to try with them.

Constructive feedback and criticise always welcome.

;)
Nec Sorte Nec Fato - Neither By Chance Nor Fate

X-wing Blog
User avatar
Swordmaster of Hoeth
Southern Sentinel
Posts: 4479
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:01 am
Location: On the path of an outcast

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....Major update 10/8/12

#29 Post by Swordmaster of Hoeth »

Hi Jimmy,

A very good article and very beneficial for a beginner and pro alike. I expect you to expand that with more examples with more games under your belt. The more tactical articles like that the better!

Now onto some comments :)

1. Unit description

I think you nicely summarized what are the advantages of the Knights but to have a full picture it is important to state what are the weaknesses too. As a HE player I noticed I do not pay attention to initiative that much but for other armies it is a very significant factor, for instance. It also helps to know what kind of foe to avoid or what to do in order to overcome the disadvantage (Speed of Light anyone? :)). Their big footprint is also an important factor and might but does not have to be considered a disadvantage. It is definitely something you cannot ignore.

2. Snake Shield

Very good approach and I am not surprised you mentioned it as a first one. The examples you provided are great too. I have noticed, though, that you add some nice but short description later on but do not really explain against what Knights are shielding in the case of the first two diagrams. It is also worth reminding, in my opinion, that in this formation your more fragile archers are not only at -2 to hit but still benefit from their special rule and hit at 5+ from behind the "Shield".

3. Hunters

It is a relatively short paragraph but it is understandable as I think you haven't used them in that role much yet. Despite that I am pretty sure you have a very good idea what kind of prey they are after and that is worth mentioning. For example, I think that small unit of Knights is great for mage hunting because of their multiple attacks, poison and killing blow. You can always position them in such a way that 2 Knights are in base-to-base contact with a character (or at least you can try to make it so) to give yourself the best chances to eliminate enemy spellcaster.

3. EBTS

This is a very interesting rule and probably deserves more space but I also understand it is a tricky one so you might need to play more to add more examples. In particular, when it is combined with other regiments who can do that. Be it due to their own special rules or magic banner. I am a great supporter of that rule and I am really glad when it is utilized although I am well aware of the risks. I am looking forward to reading about more nice examples in that department :)

4. Support

This section is nicely covered and the strength of few regiments of good movement and stomp/thunderstomp abilities can really give you an opportunity to mount a devastating attack, especially when said units charge from many directions.

5. Magic

It does deserve its own section indeed. I think TK can create quite relentless magic phase so it is beneficial to spend some time to think on the particular order of spell casting and circumstances which dictate which you are going to attempt in particular turn. If possible I would also add on how to protect your magic investment as it is not only about 2 x level 4 but also about Casket and Hierotitan and how to keep them intact as long as possible. They can actually form a nice fire base and support each other greatly.

Other than that you definitely are spot on with the spells and their value to the army.

6. Sneaky tricks

I like the second one in particular as it can give a very good chance for NK to break some big infantry unit despite its steadfast. Something that this unit might face now and again and with the armies you sometimes field has to be dealt with in other way than adding your own ranks to combat. Sure, you can sometimes use Archers to do so but it is not always a good option or due to the fact NK might be fighting too far ahead - an option at all.

As I said it is a very good article and the value of it increases due to the fact it is based on the hard fought experience. I trust it is just the first one of many. Thanks for sharing and I hope my feedback is of some use too :)

Cheers!
Image

Twitter @SwordOfHoeth

High Elves MSU - Observations
Rabidnid wrote:Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?
Jimmy
Centurion
Posts: 3307
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:55 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: The Journey of 100 battles....Major update 10/8/12

#30 Post by Jimmy »

My usual opponent and I rolled up Battle Line and got started.

Ops list:

Archlector - War Archlectortar GW, AOMI
Grandmaster - Runefang, OTS
BSB - White CLoak 1+
Level 1 - scroll, fire
2 x engineers
Witch Hunter - Spec, GW, Pistol, CDharmed Sheild
24 spearmen - FC
9 IC knights - SS, FC
10 HG - FC
10 XB - FC
6 Pistoliers - Mus, Champion, Outrider RP
4 Demigrphys - GP, FC
Cannon
Helblaster

My list:

Hierophant - Scroll
HLP - Book of Ashur, Ironcurse
20 Archers - Std, Mus
20 Archers - Std, Mus
25 Archers - Std
3 x 5 Horse Archers
2 x 6 Necropolis Knights - FC
Hierotitan
Casket of Souls
2 x SSC's

Spells - Fireball
Hiero - Cursed blades, desiccation, protection, vengeance
Light - Gaze, Banishment, Net, Bironas

Deployment:

Image

Shame I had to deploy this way however there isn't anywhere I could hide from the cannon.

I was contemplating running the right flank with a unit of Knights but they'd just get carved up by the Helblaster and secondly it would give the Demi Knights free reign down the opposite flank which I couldn't have.

Key parts of my ops army were his IC Death star and the Demi knights, if I could take these out I'd have an excellent chance however it wasn't going to be easy. The BSB would make me -1 to hit in combat in BTB, whilst no doubt the nearby War Altar would be conferring Hatred on the unit of Knights.

Empire Turn 1

Image

Everything advances, Pistoliers scream down the flank (Vanguard move added on here).

Magic - Fire ball kills 6 archers from Hierophants unit. Banishment dispelled.

Shooting - Cannon fails to bounce at Hierotitan, Pistoliers drop 4 archers on flank.

TK 1

Image

Bironas on front snakes. Banishment drops 3 handgunners. LOD fails to kill Pistoliers.

Vengeance dispelled with 8 dice on knights.

Shooting

Archers leave 2 pistolers standing. Pass panic.

SSC scatters, 2nd SSC hits Archlector, wounds, passes 6+ ward. :(

Empire 2

Image

DK into HA.

Magic - I scroll re-roll to hits to prevent the knights from having this next turn. Dispel

5+ ward.

Shooting - 2 archers die to pistoliers, cannon fails to bounce again into the Hierotitan.

TK 2

Image

Necroknights into Knights.

HA into handgunners.

Magic - Protection onto Necroknights, Cursed blades, but Bironas scrolled.

Shooting sees pistoliers dead, 4 spearmen, SSC does nil. 2nd misfires.

HA fail to break handgunners killing 1. Snakes eyes holds and reform to face.

Knights have 4 left, Empire have 8 left + BBS, Killing Blow Grand Master! :)

Empire 3

Image

Demi knights into horse archers.
Spearmen into Necroknights (failing), Archlector into Necroknights.

Soulfire puts a wound on the Knights. I dispel re-roll wounds.

Horse Archers kill 2 handgunners, crumble with 2 left.

Demiknights kill Horse Archers and reform.

Necroknights killing blow Archlector + BSB, Knights hold, I have 3 left.

TK 3

Image

Knights charge into Demi knights, Hierotitan into flank of War Altar.

Cursed blades on knights, desiccation on spearmen. LOD fails to cast. Dispels Net on Spearmen.

11 Spearmen left after archers and catapults. Pass panic.

Knights break + War Altar. Pursuit kills Altar. Knight gets away. Necroknights on 2.

DM do 3 wounds, Necroknights dish out 4 in return. Held combat. Reform wide.

HA die and crumble.

Empire 4

Image

Spearmen fail to charge Bunker. Knight flees 9".

3D6 Fire ball kills one knight. Cannon fails to kill Hierotitan. Handgunners into Hierotitan doing nil damage. Helblaster into Knight kills remaining knight.

Necroknights break Demi knights, 2 left and 4 knights left. Fail to catch. DM 12".

TK 4

Image

Necroknights charge handgunners, flee and are caught. Hierotitan into DM who are caught.

Hierophant moves into other unit of archers as they reform into single line to make it a little tougher for the witch hunter heading his way.

Spirit leech on Helblaster is dispelled. LOD kills Helblaster doesn't bounce though. Panic makes engineer flee and crossbowmen in ruins flee.

Net on spearmen. Desiccation, banishment does 3 wounds.

Shooting drops the Spearmen. Witchhunter flees. Cannon dies to SSC fire.

Empire 5

Image

Witch Hunter fails to rally and dies from Net! :)

Knight flees off table. Crossbowmen rally.

TK 5

Image

Desiccation on Xbowmen + Net. Miscast Net, causes Hierophant to take a wound.

Archers panic Xbowmen who fail to flee because of net and take another 3 casulties, 4 left.

SSC kills far engineer.

Empire 6

Image

Engineer rallies. Xbowmen fail to rally, take 6 hits and all die from Net.

TK 6

Image

Banishment kills Engineer.

TK - Victory.

Wow.

Just wow.

Soon as I saw the Knight Deathstar come down with the GM I thought how the hell am I going to get a draw? The Snake shield once again came into play with a 'hunter' component sneaking around the flank. Absolutely love this list.

Thoughts and comments appreciated.
Nec Sorte Nec Fato - Neither By Chance Nor Fate

X-wing Blog
Post Reply