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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:29 am 
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Southern Sentinel
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I must admit I am a little surprised by that change from Lions to Archers in terms of banner allocation. Is it due to the fact that Archers have a better chance to have a target which has regeneration special rule in their range? Lions, despite the fact Seredain has many deployment drops, might still not be in perfect place to deal with such target. Especially where there are more of them.

On the other hand all it takes is a hero with Dragonhelm to charge archers and stop them from doing anything, especially if they are in horde formation. And their S3 might not be enough to inflict that single wound that particular turn so that RBT's can have easier work to finish the monster off.

I am sure, however, that Seredain will provide us with his rationale behind his choice and that it had to outweigh disadvantages (if he even sees that this way :)).

Cheers!

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Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 8:26 pm 
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So, how many of you thought that I'd died?

I'll summarise (with apologies) my lengthy absence by saying only that I've been working so late so often for the last two weeks that, last night, I had Weetabix for dinner followed by a massive dairy milk. The night before, I had insta-pasta and an orange. Those of you planning a career in law, hear me: your dietary requirements must become more basic if you are to survive. Weetabix is your friend. And spinach.

Anyway, where was I?


Battle Report – High Elves vs Monsters of Chaos

Spells

Lecalion – Drain Magic, Shield, Arrow Attraction, Fury of Khaine, Flames of the Phoenix
Galruach – Loremaster of Tzeentch

Deployment

Eldria sneezed and, all of a sudden, his whole army was on the table (though it was an admittedly lengthy sneeze given the three units of hounds). It was direct and monster-mashy. Trolls went dead centre to put as little distance as possible between them and me and, surrounding them like moons around a planet, stood the smaller units and monsters. The dogs were placed pretty evenly across the whole face of the board, so as to run harassment no matter where I deployed.

My deployment was made a little more difficult given that, although my usual policy against deathstars is to scatter far and wide, I wanted to deploy some of my units close together to better protect each of them from the dragon and to make my shooting have a bigger impact by: a) to focus my power where I had line of sight available; and b) to give the dragon a more tempting target than my characters. I also ended up deploying the swords and spears in relatively close proximity, to cover approaches by the dragon and (in the case of the swords), to try and storm past the trolls via a bout of close combat with the shaggoth stood opposite.

These units grouped near the right-hand side, with my silver helms on the far right deployed well forward to allow them to get into the trolls' backfield as soon as possible. Seredain went with them to allow him a LOS save against the breath of change. Caradath got the job of being Mr Honey Trap for the breath weapon and sat in the spears. I doubted Galrauch would take the bait (the repeaters obviously scared him), but it wasn't worth the risking lumping my bus together as I normally do.

On the subject of the dragon, he took advantage of the club's high terrain (our host doesn't like cannons), and hid behind an enormous stone hill. Opposite him, looking to leach off some strength from the assault on my right, stood the dragon princes (a glorified harassment unit for this battle), and the white lions. Between them, I figured they could take on the left-hand shaggoth and smoke the dogs, with a possible role to play against the trolls should my plan (see above) go... according to plan.

Chaos justifiably won the first turn and it was game on!

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The High Elf right flank

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The High Elf left – a combined force of dragon princes and white lions hopes to punish the chaos support units.

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RAAAAAAARGH!

Chaos Turn 1

Galrauch knew better than to stand in the open and gratefully moved forward within the shadow of the big hill, out of sight of my frustrated shooters. Everything else did pretty much what was expected of it and ran forwards as fast as it could. The chaos BSB, Albrekt, used to his master's ways with leadership tests and eating himself, followed the trolls but stayed just within 12” of Galrauch.

The shooting phase saw the trolls practice their belching technique (seemed pretty expert from where I was standing), and nothing else.

Magic. Oh dear! It was 12 v 6. First, the great drake tried Treason on the white lions on 3 dice, but Lecalion dispelled it using 3. Then came Pandemonium on 3, with a big roll of 11. I tried to dispel it with my remaining 3 (no use trying to stop 6 dice with them), and I couldn't do it. Gateway followed on 4 dice and completely obliterated the dragon princes. The white lions could only watch as their noble friends withered and died but, swearing loyalty to their commander, they refused to give way to the last of the chaos spells (I forget the name), passing the leadership test they were required to take.

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The unstoppable power of Tzeentch lays waste to Ulthuan's finest.

High Elves Turn 1

In the movement phase, the majority of the elven army simply consolidated its position. The white lions shifted back slightly so as to make a Turn 2 charge from the shaggoth unlikely and give him some difficult questions next movement phase. Most of my infantry shuffled in similar ways but, on the far right, the cavalry leapt forward, Seredain leading his silver helms up onto the hill, in a single line, toward the nearest unit of hounds. Caradath's spearelves followed in their wake. The brown eagle swooped down infront of the trolls to keep them there for another turn, while the pale eagle, crucial for holding up the trolls for a turn and, therefore, justly concerned about getting fried in the magic phase, retreated toward the rear of my lines – a little too far, in fact, as we'll see later.

Magic was a respectable 9 v 6 – plenty to work with. First, I got rid of Pandemonium with 2 dice. Then came a big roll with 3 dice on Flames against the trolls who, clearly afraid of it, called on their dragon lord to chuck all his dice to stop it. The way was now open for some cheeky High Magic action. Arrow Curse went on the shaggoth opposite my right flank, and then I threw up a 1-dice shield on the swordmasters and then 1-diced Drain Magic to finish. I love this lore.

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The elves swing into action.

Shooting. The repeaters both thudded single bolts into the shaggoth, successfully wounded but only caused 3 wounds between the two of them. The 18 blue archers followed their lead and added another wound, bringing the shaggoth down to 3 while, to my left, the 10 green archers plugged a couple of dogs from the central unit.

Chaos Turn 2

Another short chaos turn saw everything advance where it could. Throgg trolls trudged forward to eat the brown eagle. The dogs facing my right flank came forward just enough to road-block my helms and nothing more, while the nearby shaggoth, suitably worried about the amount of attention he was getting, tried to preserve his remaining wounds by hiding behind a large tower (sensible fellow). Galrauch was having none of this, of course, and bowled forward, over the large stone hill and toward my firebase – just out of sight of the white lions covering the left flank.

Magic was 10 v 6 – another big phase for Chaos. Flickering Flames against my last eagle was dispelled with dice, and Gateway (against one of the repeaters, I think) was scrolled, so my shooting survived for a close-range barrage against the big beast. Last-minute checks were made to every bolt in my arsenal.

In combat, the eagle got eaten (unsurprisingly). Luckily, he was too scared to cause any wounds before he died and denied, by his incompetence, the trolls a roll on the eye of the gods table.

High Elves Turn 2

The shaggoth may have been hidden from my shooting, but he wasn't hidden from my prince. The elf lord drew his gleaming sword and charged forth. Caradath followed his lord's lead, leapt out of the spears and charged the nearest dogs for an easy overrun past the trolls. The helms, unable to do much because of Seredain's charge, simply shuffled forward to within 1 inch of the hounds – there was no getting past the dogs and, at least, I'd clear them out next turn (I didn't fancy turning the helms around and risking a rear-charge). In preparation for the arrival of Galrauch, meanwhile, the swordmasters, green archers and spears all pivoted left. If he charged the repeater and held, Galrauch would have the swordmasters in one flank. If he overran into the archers, meanwhile, the spears would step in.

Figuring the infantry had it covered and sensing the big beast's arrival, Lecalion now decided to get the hell out of dodge and ran forwards 10”, out of line of sight of the trolls and Galrauch who, critically, was so intent on charging my shooters that he wasn't go to risk going after this juicy target. Of course, I'd assumed (and been foolish enough not to check), that the dragon's breath weapons were magical (like the troll vom), so the dragon was a big worry for me. He needn't have been, with Folariath's Robe, once the dragon had got close I could've pinned him with the archmage all day. A massive oversight. Lesson learned!

The white lions, again delaying a shaggoth charge on the left flank, shifted backwards while, finally, the pale eagle moved forward to hold up the trolls. Unfortunately, I'd played so safe with him on Turn 1 (to protect him from the dragon's spells), that he was too far away to get as close as I'd like. He'd hold Throgg up, sure, but those trolls would get 6” out of it next turn.

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The prince charges out against his enemy while the knights move into the teeth of the warhounds.

Magic was 3v2 so, although not at all potent, actually served a very useful purpose. Arrow Attraction went up on Galrauch and made a small prayer to the gods before rolling some very important dice...

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You feeling lucky, punk?

I was excited. I needn't have been. Jesus must have been cross with me for turning polytheistic because, even with the re-rolls on 3+, only one of the repeaters hit Galrauch. Luckily I got the wound but, unluckily, it only came up a 1. Arrows followed to darken the sky and made a very decent number of hits, but I didn't roll any 6's to wound. Oh crap.

Combat, and the cavalry prince did what he was designed to do. A few great sweeps of the Giant Blade saw Seredain throw down his enemy and smite his ruin. The elf lord then calmly reigned in his steed and turned to face the chaos battle standard bearer, Albrekt, across the way (while keeping his own BSB within sight). Caradath, forming the second wing of mission, chopped up two dogs and left the last testing on double 1's (albeit with a re-roll from Throgg). And then the hound rolled double 1's and stuck!

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What arrows begin, swords will end...

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..except in the case of Fido the Wonderdog.

Chaos Turn 3

And now we come to a major, major episode. The trolls declared (naturally) a charge into the pale eagle. And then Albrekt the BSB declared a charge into... my archmage. Now, here's the board as I saw it at the end of HE turn 2:

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Of course I knew Albrekt was there but, since the trolls were partly perched up on the big stone hill, I was unthinkingly working with 'true line of sight' and assumed that the archmage was safe. This was a big mistake, for two reasons:

1)In reality the trolls should have been flat on the board, with only the few models situated on the hill raised up; and
2)The Chaos BSB model was an ogre model on top of a rhinox and, hence, very tall.

Through the flailing arms of the trolls, then, Albrekt could see his quarry. Eldria was cool about it, but what was done was done so we just decided to play it out (you gotta learn these lessons, people!). He declared the charge and I, since Lecalion was an exactly average charge distance away from his killer (the Warrior Bane Albrekt was packing gave him the magical attacks he needed), declared a flee reaction. The trolls slammed into the eagle, then, and Albrekt... couldn't close the distance and was stuck in the open with Caradath before him and Seredain to his flank, ready for a charge next turn! Excellent... Galrauch, meanwhile, followed his intentions through and charged the nearest repeater.

Magic, and the full consequences of The Great Line of Sight Cock-up of 2012 became truly apparent. Simply put, Lecalion was now within the dragon's line of sight and I had no scroll. The magic phase saw a measly 3v2 dice, but 3 dice beats 2 and, a few seconds later, Gateway had gone off and Lecalion had been sucked into the Realm of Chaos. Unholy Shit.

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The beginning of the end for Lecalion...

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...as the Great Drake starts to earn his points.

Combat went as expected for both sides. Caradath cut apart the insolent hound standing before him, while Galrauch smashed one of my war machines to pieces. He howled with joy at his little prize and the sudden disappearance of the enemy caster, so loudly that the blue archers panicked and fled headlong, through my 2nd repeater and out the other side. He tried to overrun into something juicy but couldn't get far enough. He was, at least, out of line of sight of the swordmasters. I now had a choice: stick the spears in with the beast on 5 wounds and no leadership nearby, or try another bolt...

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Last edited by Seredain on Thu May 03, 2012 9:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 8:36 pm 
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The Cavalry Prince
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Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
I must admit I am a little surprised by that change from Lions to Archers in terms of banner allocation. Is it due to the fact that Archers have a better chance to have a target which has regeneration special rule in their range? Lions, despite the fact Seredain has many deployment drops, might still not be in perfect place to deal with such target. Especially where there are more of them.

Yeah, in summary, the archers + repeaters can tackle multiple regenerating targets whereas 12 lions, slow and fragile as they are, can only really hit one per game. If you're going High Magic + repeaters, the flaming arrows all round the better choice. You don't worry too much about Dragon helm heroes. If I see such a model making a bee-line for my otherwise-innocuous 18 archers, I'll know what he's up to and put something hitty in his face! Such a hero could, of course, hold up flaming white lions but, since the archers tend to deploy centrally, they're easier to defend.

There's filth out there: dual hydras, dual aboms etc, and 12 white lions themselves won't get the job done while the prince, my other main solution for big gribblies, can't be everywhere at once. With a mixture of flaming arrows, bolts, hitty bcharacters and hitty elites, I can achieve much more against the filth. With Arrow Attraction kicking around, I really have nothing to fear from the Abomination - even with the Storm Banner raging. I miss the white lions having Cause Fear against cavalry but, on the plus side, they've got better leadership protection than they had before, now that they have the Gleaming Pennant. The spears, who lost out in that department, tend to run with my knights to break steadfast (partly in response to this change), so leadership isn't as much of a problem for them. Where it is, Lecalion leads them to provide the Leadership 9.

Anyway, I'll crack on with the report: it's barely a few hours before I have to go to bed in preparation for my return to the corporate sweatbox...

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 8:22 am 
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As I have to be extremely careful about spoilers or I risk being lynched by a mob of unhappy High Elf generals I shall merely tell an ancedote of fido the wonder dogs father.

He is owned by a good friend of mine who runs by Koshtra Belorn.

In a recent clash of armies, the warriors of Koshtra had trudged a long way up a pass while taking a horrible battering from dwarven artillery. Fidos father and his packmates finally got to grips with a small engineer looking chap and contentedly ate him. Fido's father and his remaining pack mate next had a crack at a dwarf grudge thrower. They savaged a crewman and the other two dragged down the packmate.

The sight of Fido's fathers blooded fangs was too much for the crew who died trying to flee him. This sight was too much for 40 of the elite dwarves next door with their lord and they decided they had left a keg standing at home too long and went to check it was okay.

Of such stock was fido born!


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 8:57 am 
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Hi Seredain!

Thanks a lot for another report! It was about time you showed up again. I really missed these photos :)

As to the game itself a couple of questions/comments if you please.

1. Deployment - what was the reason for double line at the right flank? My guess is to prevent straight charge at fire base but I would like to read your explanation and see if I am right. Also, what was the reason for wide SH deployment? Another guess - to have broader line of sight in case somebody can spot a dragon to charge at :)

2. That Gateway is indeed nasty and even bigger units can suffer a lot :/

3. It feels good when these 1-dice spells get in :)

4. I really like these solo charges of your characters, makes me want to have some of mounted heroes myself :)

5. That was quite unlucky with the Archmage but just shows that great moments are born from great opportunities so now wonder Eldria took it. Until that moment I think you were in better position, despite the loss of Dragon Princes.

I am looking forward the rest of the report. Also, thanks for explanation as to why the Banner was moved to Archers instead.

Cheers!

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High Elves MSU - Observations

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Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 3:46 pm 
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Nice Alexandrian deployment. ;)

Very enjoyable report so far, shame about Lecalion. I suppose that's the penalty you pay for not checking rules.

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
Also, what was the reason for wide SH deployment?


Something I'd like to know too. It decreases their manoeuvrability (when wheeling) and the only explanation I can think of is the same as Swordie's.

Looking forward to the rest of the report. :)

PS. Seredain doesn't hunt monsters, he is a monster! :D

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 4:01 pm 
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Deployment: don't agree with spreading your forces that much, especially since it allows him to hunt for your West flank without the shooting being able to help out. Rest looks good, but I don't get the wide Helms either since they're very likely to have to wheel after passing the middle tower.

Chaos T1 - bit of a coin toss with the Lions here, I probably would've scrolled the Gateway. I much prefer A.C because of situations like these, 11v7 isn't nearly as bad as 12v6.
HE T1 - I don't see the point in marching the Eagle and Archmage so much now. Why don't hold them back until he's closer? Magic phase was well executed. Shooting - Shaggoths are T5, right? No point in going single bolt then (4/6 * 2 vs 2/6 * 6 gives 8/6 for single bolt and 12/6 for multiple bolts - essentially by shooting single bolts you reduced your damage output by 33%).
Chaos T2 - wouldn't have bothered scrolling a gateway on an RBT here I think. While it hurts, you only have that one scroll
HE T2 - Single bolt is 3/6 * 2 vs multiple bolts which are 1/6 * 6, meaning they're both equally efficient. I like to go with the low-variance approach here and fire multi-bolts, but it's really just down to preference as the odds are equal
Chaos T3 - I'm very glad I don't play with TLoS, situations like this seem to make it a real mess. I much prefer SLoS, in which everything can mostly see everything ;) Magic phase - A.C would again be king, but even more I think this highlighted the mistake of using the scroll T2.

Looking forward to the rest!

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 5:21 pm 
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I think it's possible that Breath of Change could hit every model in 2-deep Helms, so denying the Prince his Look out Sir.

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 5:27 pm 
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I too have questions about your deployment in this case. I get that you wanted to sweep each side clear of his units before tackling the dragon/trolls but I don't think it makes sense here for a couple of reasons. The central deployment of the trolls means that you can't draw them to the side with eagles or kite them away because your units are on each side of the board. You can only bring them forwards which isn't great as they will get within arc/charge distance of your units closest to the center within a couple of turns. Your opponent was also able to take out that single flank pretty quickly and then not have to worry about it again.

I would potentially have split the RBTs towards the corners and left the DPs alone on the left to take on the chaff/D.Ogre. You would then deploy in force on the right. In this case the daemons would have to choose between leaving the RBT alone or going for it and having a couple of units out of the game for some time. If they did die it then wouldn't matter too much to you. It would also draw Galrauch away if he wanted to cast spells on the DPs. You would then move forward on the right using Seredain and his unit to sweep behind the building into the backfield as you did here. You have some good options after this as you can draw the trolls towards your weaker left with eagles and use the 2 pieces of impassable terrain - building and rocks in front of the SMs to control where you engage. I would also be tempted to occupy the tower (with WLs?) for some fun and games when they exit it around the back of his lines.


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:59 pm 
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I have a question for you Seredain. I am building a list very inspired by yours with a few tweaks of my own of course.

One thing that crossed me mind the other days looking at the beautiful reaver models was to swap the DP for them and use them to screen the bus, hold up units for a turn, add cr with flank charges etc because my biggest concern with your and by extension my list is the quite small WL unit. (Mine is at 14) The saved points could be used to boost them. What do you think of this?


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:34 pm 
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Oh my god it's over.....I've spent the past couple of weeks reading this thread when I haven't had anything better to do. It feels like I've just finished a great book & I feel sad that I've come to the end :( I've been absolutely loving the battle reports in here, so I can't wait to see what happens next (even if we already know the result *grumbles*).

I know its been said many times, but I'd like to thank Seredain and everyone who's contributed, I think this thread has helped me a lot. I think I understand a bit more about how to play High Elves, and about how to create an army list where everything is designed to work together, rather than look cool or whatever. The thread has also inspired me to get painting, as I now have basically every model to field The List (thanks EBay!), but only about 1/3 is assembled (and only 10 models are painted).

The only downside is: imagine how much I could have painted in the time it took me to read 34 pages! Oh well, I can't wait until I can field my own cavalry prince (properly, I tried in a 1250 point game, didn't end well), and hopefully I might even win a game for once.

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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:42 pm 
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I must admit I did not read all the pages... and I'm sorry if it's been tested but.. did anyone tried to have 2 Prince in 2 different unit of Cavalry ?

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 11:14 pm 
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Thanks for the quality comments, everyone. Sorry it's taken me so long to respond. Late nights and early mornings are now my permanent companions. It's like Ally Mcbeal but without having the free bar downstairs.

SpellArcher wrote:
I think it's possible that Breath of Change could hit every model in 2-deep Helms, so denying the Prince his Look out Sir.

Elithmar, Swordmaster and Curu, hail!

Knights in Single Line?

As SA says, you don't want all your knights getting hit by the breath of change and being prevented from saving the prince. If the silver helms don't protect the prince, their aren't doing their job! Also, a good rule of thumb when playing flyers (I find), is the deploy with a wide frontage to increase your line of sight over a wider area, reducing the flyer's ability to hop around your units while staying out of sight. In the end, the dragon was mostly pre-occupied with my bolt throwers, so this precaution wasn't needed; but you never can tell with the tricksy servants of Tzeentch. In any case, against a monster-heavy list like this, the helms aren't going to do a huge amount that the characters can't do much better, so a slight handicap in their manoeuvreability for the first couple of turns is a small price to pay for the other tactical advantages.

Curu Olannon wrote:
Deployment: don't agree with spreading your forces that much, especially since it allows him to hunt for your West flank without the shooting being able to help out.

Ah, now the point about shooting wasn't true given the state of the board. My shooting couldn't help out if the dragon hid behind the rock all game (doing nothing), but if he wants to come out and hit the lions, he can get shot.

Deploying against the Monsters of Chaos

As for spreading my forces out, this was a good idea for 3 reasons:

1) The trollstar (like any deathstar), can only be in one place at a time. By scattering my units, I make sure it has nowhere expensive to go while giving myself the greatest number of movement options to tackle the other Chaos troops. By scattering my deployment early on, I also ensure that the trolls don't deploy directly opposite too many valuable targets and have a shorter distance to close before getting to the big points. If I lose a single unit to them, by contrast, it isn't the end of the world (even the swords wouldn't have mattered if the dragon had died or the archmage had lived).

2) I could only win this battle by killing as many of the non-troll units as possible (since I wasn't sure of getting points off the trolls themselves). Since the enemy deployed quite wide across the board, this meant I needed to deploy in a position to tackle them. If I wanted a chance at taking on the trolls, moreover (see below), I had to get this job done quickly or not at all. Hiding in a corner wasn't going to get me those kills fast enough.

3) Scattering my army gave the dragon a disincentive to charging straight in at my repeaters. If he ran off at one of these units, meanwhile, he wouldn't overrun into anything valuable and, crucially, there'd still be distance between him and my shooting. If Galrauch did charge my repeaters, on the other hand, he wouldn't also within line of sight of my other expensive units and characters (who I intended to run individually where I could) for the purposes of magic. This is why the TLOS debacle with Lecalion was such a big deal.

Normally, I don't like scattering deployment like this when flying beasts are about but, considering the above points, I felt it appropriate on this occasion. Finally, it's worth thinking about the trolls again. If my magic had lasted and my shooting had performed admirably, there was every chance that I could clear up the non-troll units in pretty short order and have a look at taking on the trollstar itself. By far the easiest way to pull this off would be to ensure that I had a useful unit on all sides and, for this, a scattered deployment was the only way. Starting my units off in a clump and moving them out would not, even with the cavalry, have won me as many options. And it would have been much easier for the trolls to avoid a combined rear/flank charge.

Curu Olannon wrote:
Chaos T2 - wouldn't have bothered scrolling a gateway on an RBT here I think. While it hurts, you only have that one scroll
This is absolutely right. It's very easy for me to forget that I took the scroll to protect my characters for one crucial turn. It has no business saving something as piddly as a single bolt thrower. A valuable lesson re-learned, there. Occasionally you just have to realise that, where the enemy has spent points, you can expect to take hits. Losing a single machine was certainly not worth the sacrifice of my archmage. No way, Jose.

Curu Olannon wrote:
Chaos T3 - I'm very glad I don't play with TLoS, situations like this seem to make it a real mess.
Yeah, this was a nasty shock... If Eldria hadn't been a laugh to play I'd have probably got in a mood about this! Not a great way to see the game turn before your eyes, I can tell you.

John Rainbow wrote:
The central deployment of the trolls means that you can't draw them to the side with eagles or kite them away because your units are on each side of the board.

Hey John,

I've largely dealt with deployment above but, further to your query, I'd note that there was actually a huge amount of space for me to put the trolls into on the left without having to worry about the lions. Remember that the green archers were deployed mid-left as well so, if the trolls had decided to go for the white lions (who anyway ended up on the far left flank), I could always have put the green archers in their path of required. The dragon princes, of course, are fast enough to just get out of the way.

John Rainbow wrote:
I would potentially have split the RBTs towards the corners and left the DPs alone on the left to take on the chaff/D.Ogre.

I'm afraid I don't agree on your idea for the dragon princes, because they simply weren't up to the job of taking out a shaggoth all by themselves given the presence of a 20" flying Tzeentch magic phase. And, lo and behold, they got blasted turn one. If I hadn't had the lions there to take the shaggoth on, I'd have had nothing to kill him unless I tried to move an infantry unit across the path of the trolls - a bad plan - or I dedicated my shooting to taking him out, leaving the dragon alone.

Split Shooting?

As for my shooting, splitting it is, I agree, often a good idea to prevent it getting mopped up quickly and to provide a large number of targets. However, in this battle my thinking was that my army, as deployed, already provided scattered targets while, for shooting purposes, I wanted to be able to focus my power with the aid of High Magic - this being much easier when your chosen target is visible to both machines and at least one of the archer units. I don't think wounding on a 4+ is good odds against Galrauch with only single shot, so really I wanted to plug him with both machines where possible and, if not, use them to plug a shaggoth. In reply to Curu's point about the single shot vs multiples on the shaggoth, by the way, I chose singles:
a) because I had re-rolls to hit from arrow attraction, reducing the big problem with single bolts; and
b) to prevent my opponent having access to some outrageous luck with armour saves. Where possible, I'd like to get rid of an armour save altogether, rather than give someone a chance to roll at it.

I hope this feedback has been informative, chaps. Apologies for the lengthy absence - I've been working late every night except the weekend, where I went Stagging in Edinburgh (awesome town). I'm a bit stretched at the mo! However, I'm already on to my next little project: my reports from the last tournie I attended... It's gonna be a doozy.

MR. GRUMPY wrote:
One thing that crossed me mind the other days looking at the beautiful reaver models was to swap the DP for them and use them to screen the bus, hold up units for a turn, add cr with flank charges etc because my biggest concern with your and by extension my list is the quite small WL unit. (Mine is at 14) The saved points could be used to boost them. What do you think of this?

Chin up, Mr Grumpy.

I think it's definitely worth a shot. The small lions always upset me, too (when I get extra points to spend, the two lions instantly go in). As for the reavers themselves, I think they're most useful for hunting war machines, but I think you could also put them to good use clearing enemy chaff for the knights, as you say. In normal circumstances (like when they're not dragon-hunting, it's usually possible to do this with your shooting, however, as well as your eagles (especially when charging them from behind friendly troops to gain hard cover from enemy stand & shoot). Against an army packing cannons, though, I'd be glad to catch sight of a few reavers.

In truth, I've never fielded them alongside the bus, so I'd be very curious to see how they'd get on and whether you'd miss the dragon princes (I think I would). Give it a try and let us know how you get on, eh?

Selvhan wrote:
I must admit I did not read all the pages... and I'm sorry if it's been tested but.. did anyone tried to have 2 Prince in 2 different unit of Cavalry ?

Yeah, Curu Olannon tried this net the beginning of his army list thread - go and check it out. You'll see, after a few reports, that it didn't work out for him. Partly, this was because he used to be quite gung ho with his charges! Also, though, I think the concept of dual cavalry hammers doesn't work at 2500 points.

Multiple Cavalry Hammers and All-Comers Armies

Firstly, there's the question of hard counters. There's plenty of stuff that eats armour in WFB (like Eldria's Chaos list!), so you really don't want to invest all your points in it. With a list like mine, it's easy enough to split the characters from the bus and avoid these counters while they kill other useful stuff - and I've only spent 192 points on silver helms, who can always find something useful to do. Start spending the big points on big dragon prince buses with characters, though, and you'll find yourself lacking in other troop types to bring the fight against things you want to avoid with your knights. The most important thing I bear in mind when thinking about my army is that I don't want it to lose because one of my weapons has a bad day or comes up against a hard counter and, by under-performing, loses me the game. So, I won't take a dragon because, eventually, I'll run into gunlines (which I've actually played quite a lot); and I won't rely on magic in case I get a miscast which ends a phase I've spent many hundreds of points on. Taking an army filled with knights is as risky as both of these other choices. If you think you can pull it off, mind, go for it. When magic-heavy High Elf lists work, they are immensely powerful. Where the dragon doesn't get shot, he's an absolute beast. However, since I like to field an army which can play against any opponent, with any list, in any comp environment, I don't like to put this many eggs in one tactical basket. Likewise, I wouldn't be inclined to field more knights at 2500 points.

It's also important to remember that the most useful aspect of cavalry is its speed and ability to survive multiple combats, not its ability to smash things on the charge (which, historically, has typically been stronger than it is now). The characters themselves are heavy hitters but, with two ranks of knights alongside, they are not going to be breaking big steadfast blocks by themselves. What they excel at is chopping up smaller, expensive targets: monsters, elite units x 14, that kind of thing, where steadfast isn't an issue. Then you want to turn them toward the enemy centre, using their speed to ensure they reach combat at the same time as the infantry. Effectively, then, they are merely the wing of an infantry army: you use them to collect points and gain a flank before the infantry battle happens, but they don't win the battles by themselves. Spend too many points on cavalry, and you'll find yourself getting stuck on big blocks and having too few grinding units to back you up.

With a bit of blue sky thinking, I reckon that mass cavalry tactics could work pretty well in conjunction a really heavy shooting phase, so your bus was stomping over already-crippled enemy units. The problem there, of course, is finding the points for the second cavalry bus on top of all those other weapons, High Elf shooting typically needing some decent magic to operate at its best. Alternatively, you could take dual-hammers with an all-spear infantry core, looking to hammer one flank really hard and fast and following up with a massed spear-charge to break the centre. I prefer an assortment of elven weaponry, as I've said but, if you've got a suggested list, by all means post it here and we'll take a look. In principle, though, I'd save the dual-cavalry hammer for larger battles.

Tetengo wrote:
Oh my god it's over.....I've spent the past couple of weeks reading this thread when I haven't had anything better to do. It feels like I've just finished a great book & I feel sad that I've come to the end :( I've been absolutely loving the battle reports in here, so I can't wait to see what happens next...

Voila! Please see below, Tetengo, and thank you very much for your kind comments. They are, as ever, greatly appreciated. I'm afraid I can't write as often as I used to, but I assure you the story shall continue, albeit in small installments rather than biblically large chapters. :)

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 11:32 pm 
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Battle Report – High Elves vs Monsters of Chaos – Part Deux

So where was I?

Chaos Turn 3 continued...

back to Chaos' combat phase and, while the dragon was making hay with elven missile fire in the East, in the West the last shaggoth finally made his charge into the white lions. The hunters knew their quarry, however, and as he was crossing the rough ground before them they surged forward on all sides and cleaved into the beast with their great axes. An average 6 hits (8 models could strike) put the beast under some pressure, but my wound rolls were poor and I only managed 3 successfully. Damn! On the plus side, the shaggoth struggled more: most of his attacks missed and he only managed a single successful thunderstomp to bring down 3 of the elven huntsmen. It was still a victory for Chaos, but the stubborn white lions closed their ranks and stood firm (without the aid of the Gleaming Pennant).

High Elves Turn 3

As the blue archers sensibly rallied, the elven heroes spurred their steeds with a great shout and rushed the chaos standard bearer. And then... Seredain's steed must have tripped over a rabbit hole or something, because for his charge I rolled a 3, 2, 2. He watched helplessly as Caradath charged home alone against a very powerful opponent. This was bad news. The plan had been to challenge with the prince and add static res with the BSB for the break. Now, I had the inferior character going in by himself, and I'd only be able to add the extra combat res from the prince next turn. Caradath would have to survive 3 rounds of combat before Seredain brought me +2 combat res for a break test. Could he do it?

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The cavalry prince is foiled by some deadly flat ground.

Once the silver helms completed their easy charge against the hounds on my right flank, the rest of the movement phase was spent in a sequence of defensive shuffles. First off, I didn't charge the dragon. Instead, I thought I'd take another shot at him and prepare for the anti-bolt thrower charge next turn. The blue archers rallied, expecting an overrun from the dragon through the nearby war machine. The spears pivoted to cover this move while keeping Galrauch in their front arch in case he tried anything too ballsy. And now for the swordmasters... Poor bastards. The trolls' 6” move last turn had brought them close enough so that I was just unable (literally a fraction of a base), from marching this unit out of line of sight. My 2nd eagle's timidity on Turn 1 may have preserved him from dragon magic, but it had now put the swords in trouble. Fleeing would quite likely see them go off the board or (perhaps worse), offer the trolls a march into my army's heartland. So, they did the only thing left to them: they wheeled and marched right into the teeth of Throgg's horde, swords ready, songs of death on their lips. If they were to die, at least they'd kill a few trolls and make sure they didn't go anywhere next turn. I wasn't happy with the sacrifice, mind. Allowing the trolls a 6” move on Turn 3 was now costing me this unit. A useful reminder for eagle-lovers everywhere: 20” isn't as far as all that.

Since my archmage was dead, it was on to the shooting phase, and my elves held their breath as the last repeater bolt thrower took aim at Galrauch, bearing down at almost point-blank range and... missed. Doh!

Image
*Choke!*

Things needed to go better in the combat phase to stop me digging hard into the pub/club's supply of beer, but there was nothing doing. I dedicated Caradath's attacks to the chariot, on the basis that it was easier to hit and, with only a 3+ armour save, easier to wound. It was therefore a much easier source of combat resolution than the heavily-armoured, WS7 Albrekt. Even after re-rolls, though, I only managed 1 hit, getting the wound (at least) for a total of +3 res. Perhaps dazzled by elven glamour, Albrekt couldn't manage much either. Of two successful hits, both were turned aside by Caradath's heavy armour (a re-rollable 4+ against Str 5 attacks). The chariot likewise couldn't manage anything and it was a victory to me of +2. Albrekt held.

Elsewhere, the lions showed their quality and finished off the last shaggoth with practiced ease. A good day's work from them. Since they had no hope of ganging up on the trolls (there's no way I could take them on with my magic and shooting either absent or proving sluggish), they reformed to face the nearby hounds- just to their left.

Image
Perhaps bamboozled by each other's flags, the army champions clash but can't find a killer stroke.

Chaos Turn 4

The trolls eagerly took the chance to kill something expensive and charged the swordmasters, who nobly accepted their fate and stood firm. Galrauch had some more serious decisions to make. Although he wanted the last repeater dead, he didn't want to charge it as the overrun (into the blue archers) would leave him open to a flank charge from the spearelves. Since he always had to challenge the spearelf champion (losing him his thunderstomps since he would obviously dispatch the tiny elf with base attacks), he'd have to start burning through his valuable breath weapons or lose heavily on combat res (I'd have a +6 static res from the flanking spears) and, perhaps, be pushed off the board. Instead, then, he resolved to land to the side of the spears and burn some of their ranks away. To my far left, the last hounds – too close to the lions to manoeuvre away – simply shifted backwards in the hope that a failed charge would save them.

Magic. I don't quite remember the dice, but Tzeentch was obviously busy chasing Lecalion around in the Realm of Chaos because he didn't grant his drake enough power to do much. Flickering fire went off on the repeater, and I let it through. No wounds. Then came Gateway and I got rid of it with all my dice.

Shooting, and Galrauch's oily fire flooded through the spearelves, killing many. They had reason to hope that their prince would return for them, however, and bravely stood their ground.

In the centre of the field, combat was heralded with a great shout as the swordmasters raised their blades and swept into the trolls. Performing well with 22 attacks, hitting on re-rollable 3's and wounding on 3's, they made a tremendous number of wounds; but then the regeneration came. So many grievous wounds sealed themselves up that it was almost audible and, after all the swinging was done, only two trolls stayed down. In the vanguard of his elite soldiers, the elven bladelord carved 3 wounds out of the troll king only to see all of them close up again. Wide-eyed with terror, he stared up at the grinning monster and, overcome by despair, simply dropped his blade into the mud. The great troll bellowed with laughter, reached out, squeezed his enemy to death and, then, watched with something like affection as his horde heaped themselves upon the mortals before them, tore them apart and feasted upon the remains.

Image
The noble swordmasters meet a terrible end.

When the feasting was done, the trolls summoned Tzeentch to reward them for their service. The great god was still distracted, however (Lecalion must have been doing sterling work), and his eye just passed them over. Throgg got nothing and the trolls, helpfully, got Stupidity.

Behind them, the battle of the BSBs raged on and, once again, proved something of a pillow fight. Caradath couldn't hit a thing despite his re-rolls and scored no wounds at all on the chariot. Albrekt struck back with his Warrior Bane and made a wound which I couldn't save, sapping the elf's strength. Elven armour turned aside the attacks from the chariot, however, and saved Caradath's life for another turn. He bravely held his ground and I crossed my fingers: Seredain would be in Albrekt's flank next turn and, if Caradath could stay alive for one more round, I'd break the enemy on static combat res. Points were close, now – if I could keep hold of 190 points for my BSB (+100 for not losing him in combat), I'd be looking good.

Image
End of Chaos Turn 4 – as Galrauch inflicts withering fire on the elven citizens, the swords' noble sacrifice keeps the chaos trolls at bay.

High Elves Turn 4

With the battle in the balance, Seredain charged to the aid of his old friend and assaulted the flank of the Chaos battle standard bearer. The silver helms rode in their lord's wake, to cover him with their lances should Galrauch later try anything funny with the Breath of Change. Meanwhile, the elven missile troops aimed their weapons at the great dragon, the green archers closing down the ground between them and the trolls while, out on my left flank, the white lions charged the hounds – who held rather than flee off the table.

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Seredain rides to Caradath's rescue – but is it in time?

With Lecalion still dodging the attentions of Tzeentch and calling on Lileath, Teclis and anyone else who was listening to help him escape, it was straight to the shooting phase. All elves who had time time to speak sent up prayers to Morai-Heg to avenge the death of their brethren and bring down Galrauch. Surely, the goddess heard them, for a hail of arrows found their mark on the dragon and inflicted a wound. I put my beer glass down, and all eyes turned to the repeater bolt thrower. With a loud clunk a man-sized spear sped through the air, arced quickly and thudded into the dragon's chest, scything through his hide and embedding itself somewhere near the beast's heart. 3 successful wounds saw Galrauch howl in pain, shudder to the ground and vomit fire over the earth. He had one wound left.

Image
A smiley face from the elven gods heralds 4 wounds for the great drake.

Hearing the commotion, the elven heroes rushed to dispatch their enemy, Albrekt. Still stuck in a challenge, Caradath nonetheless found his form and struck 2 wounds off the chariot, bringing it down to 1. Albrekt swung back and, even as I crossed my fingers, made only 2 hits and saw them both saved by Caradath's mighty armour. I began to think that luck was on my side, but Loec is a fickle master. Even as the elven BSB felt relief flood his heart, one of the chariot's steeds headbutted him squarely in the chest. Unbelievably, the shock went straight through the elf's armour save and he slumped from his horse. Nooo!

Although Pyrrhic, the combat was still a victory for elven arms. With two wounds and a flank charge, I had +4 combat res against Albrekt's +2. Although these were the same odds as his last test, this time Albrekt failed to stand and the elf prince, filled with almighty rage, carved him into pieces. Then, when his anger was spent, Seredain spun his steed round and faced the chaos dragon, still howling in the distance. Elsewhere the white lions charged and butchered the last of the warhounds.

Image
The elven prince stands as both army standards collapse to the ground.

End Game

Frustratingly, the gaming club was now closing - Eldria and I had spent too much time chatting and drinking (the latter mostly down to me, I admit), so it was right down to the wire as to who could secure the most points in the shortest possible time. Chaos turn 5 went first, of course but, despite an evil breath over the archers (trying to panic them) and a moderate magic phase, only the repeater bolt thrower was removed at the end of the turn by a successful Gateway (albeit annoyingly – a last bolt would have been nice!). The trolls, who had only managed 8” movement during the whole game so far, started pegging it towards the spears but were well out of contention and had to make do with chewing on some bits of swordmaster.

In reply, I didn't have time to manoeuvre my units. Of course the plan was to starting casting a net around the dragon with all my remaining units but, whether or not I could have kept him within line of sight and charge-range of anything with Str 5+ for a turn 6 charge (the helms, the prince, the white lions) remained uncertain – there just wasn't enough time to check. So, I skipped the movement phase altogether, had a last crack at wounding Galrauch with all my archers, failed to do so, and we called time.

In the end , Chaos was ahead by about 190 points – a damn close run thing! Seredain and Galrauch stared at each other across the open field and said their particular racial equivalents of “Next time, Gadget. Next time...”

Conlusion

Well, all in all this was a fantastically fun game and a total nail-biter. At the end of it, things obviously hadn't gone according to plan: some bad mistakes had been made. Most importantly, my ignorance of Galrauch's lack of magical attacks (you'll find my army book knowledge listed here: Tactical Problems facing the Cavalry Prince List); combined with a simple screw-up of true line of sight, had seen the death of my archmage – 325 points down the drain and the end of my magic phase. Elsewhere, my timidity with the second eagle on Turn 1 had allowed the trolls to just get close enough to ensure that the swordmasters couldn't get out of the way -costing me another 237 points (it's always worth remembering that Movement 6 is not to be sniffed at). Finally, a terrible charge roll from the prince on the chaos BSB – 2,2,3 (admittedly not my fault) – sealed the fate of my own BSB and lost me 290 points. All of these little events proved the difference in themselves, though scraping that last wound off the dragon would, of course, have made it all better!

From Eldria's point of view, there were also problems for Chaos. He's used to losing few units, but here he'd actually killed very few as well: two repeaters, my swords, my BSB and (arrrgh) the archmage. His shaggoths basically did nothing but die to High Elf shooting + ASF, surrendering a huge chunk of points (Eldria reckons the list would be better with hellcannons); the trolls didn't kill anywhere near their points and the dragon squeaked through with only one wound remaining. Indeed, although crammed with anti-armour video nasties, the chaos list played much like any other deathstar list and allowed me to play my own game, pretty much un-bothered by anti-armour weaponry. I was able to split my knights up – preventing his dragon getting a single juicy target - and put my forces to good use killing everything but the trolls, whilst avoiding the trolls themselves. Barring commander error (poor mage, poor swords!), it was a pretty comfortable plan and one I wouldn't mind repeating in future.

To cap it all, Eldria was a swell guy to play against – great fun and good banter – so I'm sure will have another game some time down the road. Maybe with hellcannons..

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 3:02 pm 
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Quote:
Seredain and Galrauch stared at each other across the open field and said their particular racial equivalents of “Next time, Gadget. Next time...”


This pretty much sums up that entire combat. It was still a pretty cool match-up to read. Congrats to Eldria for the win but it was definitely close. Maybe too much beer and banter? :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 3:55 pm 
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The Return of the Living Seredain!

Good tight game, have to agree with double envelopment against Deathstars. If things go well you kill the support and charge the star . If not you avoid it and grab what points you can. Obviously a strategy with leadership issues though. I've noticed you often deploy a firebase Seredain. Theoretically our great range should let us split shooters up but still concentrate fire as required. In practice though I'm finding blocking units and terrain, not to mention immanent threats, mess with this. Whereas my RBT deployed next to Archers or LSG always achieves something. There are times you want to split (O&G maybe) but these are less common.

Couldn't agree more with the 'patchwork' concept. Recently played a solid Beastman list. I cascaded my Archmage turn 1 then failed a crucial charge with my Swordmasters while my cavalry buzzed around ineffectually. If I'd had the right tool to hand I could still have rescued things, very annoying. So in come 10 White Lions. It will actually weaken me against DE's and such but it's worth it to not leave me hamstrung vs other opponents.

Can't wait to read the searing self-criticism for rather modest mistakes made at the tournament!

:)

Oh and can you get me a date with Lucy Liu...

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 11:12 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
The Return of the Living Seredain!

Brrraaaaaaaiiiiinnnns!

SpellArcher wrote:
Good tight game, have to agree with double envelopment against Deathstars. If things go well you kill the support and charge the star . If not you avoid it and grab what points you can. Obviously a strategy with leadership issues though.

Hence my units flying out wide both either had Ld9 or the Gleaming Pennant. With my characters running solo during the end game, though, my blue archers were forced to take a panic test or (probably) flee off the board, and you don't want to be taking too many tests on Ld 8.

SpellArcher wrote:
I've noticed you often deploy a firebase Seredain. Theoretically our great range should let us split shooters up but still concentrate fire as required. In practice though I'm finding blocking units and terrain, not to mention immanent threats, mess with this. Whereas my RBT deployed next to Archers or LSG always achieves something. There are times you want to split (O&G maybe) but these are less common.

Where I'm looking to inflict damage at range, I want to be able to focus my shooting. Interposing terrain can obviously be a serious problem by blocking line of sight from more than a few parts of the board, forcing the firebase deployment, but interposing units, or long range, often end up doing the same thing. Obviously, units moving about (especially cavalry) will block line of sight pretty often but, even with an open field, I like to deploy my main shooters close to each other so that I can properly punish my chosen target at close range, rather than shower it with some short range and some long range shots. Having the archmage about makes this 24" bubble that little bit more important, so it helps to deploy my shooting together. The exception, as you suggest, is against enemy chaff. Here, you need coverage more than you need power, so the scattered deployment makes more sense.

SpellArcher wrote:
Can't wait to read the searing self-criticism for rather modest mistakes made at the tournament!

Oh, you gonna...

KarsaOrlong wrote:
Congrats to Eldria for the win but it was definitely close. Maybe too much beer and banter? :lol:

I should admit that the beer was mostly for me. Eldria was driving. :)

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 9:23 am 
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Hi Seredain,

Just a quick question. Was "flee" an option for Swordmasters? They had no chance to survive that combat and with no flaming attacks they had slim chances to win it.

Thanks again for an interesting report and next time you play make sure that muppet Eldria is not going to spoil the surprise. I know he could not drink a much beers as he wanted but it is no excuse! :P

Cheers!

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:04 pm 
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Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
Just a quick question. Was "flee" an option for Swordmasters? They had no chance to survive that combat and with no flaming attacks they had slim chances to win it.

Hey Swordie,

I did think about it but, at the time, I didn't think it was really on. If I kept any kind of distance from the trolls, the swords would've fled from the table and allowed the trolls a redirected failed charge of D6 toward my lines. Stay too close, meanwhile, and the swords might not get away at all, allowing the trolls a full charge move into my back line. In the end, I thought it safest to cut my losses and make sure the trolls only moved 1" that turn.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:13 am 
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Just to clarify - the charge made by the BSB against the Chaos Sorc Lord was illegal (pages 30-31 of this thread). Not just because it couldn't fit past the Warhounds, but also because a charge had already been declared by the Prince - meaning the rest of the unit cannot charge.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:32 am 
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conjoy wrote:
Just to clarify - the charge made by the BSB against the Chaos Sorc Lord was illegal (pages 30-31 of this thread). Not just because it couldn't fit past the Warhounds, but also because a charge had already been declared by the Prince - meaning the rest of the unit cannot charge.

QFT?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:49 am 
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I just looked through the rule book, and it says the unit cannot make a charge of it's own. It doesn't mention other characters, I would assume that if one character can charge out then two can.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:15 pm 
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Hi Seredain (and the rest of you also)

I sincerily hope this thread is still alive :shock:

As a newcomer on this forum (and to the hobby as well) I have enjoyed reading through this seemingly endless thread of goodies (currently I have read through to page 30). I started out collecting High Elves purely for painting the models but it quickly turned out that I couldn’t keep myself from trying to make a proper army and get to try the game as well. As of now the army is coming along nicely.

Looking through the item lists and all the talk about spending your points well got me thinking and I have the following question for you. Usually you field your characters like this:

Prince - Barded Steed, Dragon Armour, Shield, Giant Blade, Helm of Fortune, Talisman of Loec – 281 (5 points left over for extra items)
Battle Standard Bearer - Barded Steed, Great Weapon, Heavy Armour, Shield, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone – 175 (15 points left over for extra items)


Wouldn’t fielding them like below, offer the exact same attributes for 6 points less?:

Prince - Barded Steed, Dragon Armour, Enchanted Shield, Giant Blade, Dawnstone, Talisman of Loec – 283 (0 points left over for extra items)
Battle Standard Bearer - Barded Steed, Dragon Armour, Shield, Great Weapon, Helm of Fortune – 167 (25 points left over for extra items)


Please be gentle on me if I have overlooked something obvious – as I said, I have yet to play my first game :o)

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:26 pm 
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Hi Nyeave

Fear not! Seredain is a busy man these days but he pops in for a look now and then.

There's a subtle rules point that means the alternative Prince build doesn't work. Basically because Enchanted Shield is listed in our Army Book at 10pts, this supercedes the 5pts listed in the main rulebook. So the magic items would total 105pts which is of course illegal.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:38 pm 
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Damn! :D and here i thought I had found just the points I needed for an extra musician in my list. I'll have to go have a look at my book again. I guess thats the price we have to pay for our 20 point dispell scroll.

EDIT: Hihi, just noticed. I read through to page 30 before I asked that question, just to read on and see someone else asked the exact same on page 32...

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:30 am 
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Hi Nyeave,

Sorry to have been too late to give you the bad news about the enchanted shield. I've been in an office for 2 months. Now then. where was I? Ah, yes..



SEREDAIN GOES TO TOWN 2 – ONE-DAY TOURNAMENT BATTLE REPORTS


So once upon a time I mentioned that I had attended a tournament didn't I? Well I've been chipping away at the photos and, finally (after much delay I humbly admit), produced some reports. I'll save game 3 for the sake of suspense so, for now, please make do with games 1 and 2. Dark Elves and Beastmen...

Introduction

The tournie was a 1-day, 3 game affair at the Spread Eagle club in Wandsworth: 2400 points, SCGT comp (limiting on dual hydras etc but otherwise pretty light). My list was:

Prince - Barded Steed, Dragon Armour, Shield, Giant Blade, Helm of Fortune, Talisman of Loec, Plucker Pendant - 286
Archmage - Level 4, High Magic, Dispel Scroll - 280
Battle Standard Bearer - Barded Steed, Great Weapon, Heavy Armour, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone, Other Trickster's Shard - 188

30 Spearelves - Full Command - 295
15 Archers - Musician, Standard, Banner of Eternal Flame - 190
10 Archers - Musician - 115

14 Swordmasters - Bladelord, Amulet of Light - 237
10 White Lions - Standard, Gleaming Pennant - 167
8 Silver Helms - Musician, Shields - 192
5 Dragon Princes - 150

2 Repeater Bolt Throwers - 200
2 Eagles - 100

= 2400 points

In other words, business as usual minus (upsettingly) Folariath's Robe, some core and a couple of white lions.


GAME 1 – DARK ELVES

The Enemy

Dreadlord on foot, Killing Blow, 2+rr save (BG)
Lvl 4, Death, Pendant of Kaeleth, Dark Pegasus, stuff
BSB (I think) – Item of -1 to hit for shooting (BG)
Lvl 1, Metal
Hag - Cauldron

18ish Corsairs
14 Crossbows
5 Dark Riders
5 Dark Riders
5 Harpies
5 Harpies

18 Black Guard
1 Hydra

An unusual DE list, with plenty of the usual suspects but not all of them. In particular, there was no corsair or witch elf horde pumping out mega-attacks, so this list was relying on its BG block to just steam forward and do the business, leaving the Lvl4 sorceress as something of an irritant. No getting away from her spells – it was best just to get into combat as quickly as possible.

Deployment

I had a couple more drops so easily had the edge in deployment. I had two options: put my knights through the hydra and deal with the blackguard early, or put all my flaming shooting into the monster while my cavalry stormed through the dark elf core troops facing my left and swing round behind the BGs in time for a combination with the swordmasters. There was a third option, of course, which I didn't consider at the time. Go for the direct approach, leave the Dark Elf infantry stranded out on my left, and put all my shooting, magic and combat power through the BG/hydra combo and into the cauldron waiting behind. Afraid of the Peg-Sorceress' death spells in case I lost Turn 1, however, I deployed my cavalry and archmage out left and went for Option 2.

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Deployment

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The attack on the left seeks to overwhelm the dark elf core troops and surround the elites in the centre.

The Game

So, movement went perfectly and the dice went appallingly, which saw me lose my prince on Turn 2 to a crossbowman. I won the first turn, but my advantage was swiftly hindered when the dark elf level 1 sorcerer cast an irresistible force Searing Doom on the helms and blasted 6 of them to pieces. To escape the Deathmage I then committed the prince, BSB and dragon princes into the waiting corsairs to start chopping them up early. The DPs failed it, allowing a flank charge into my prince just waiting for a Killing Blow boost from the cauldron. I wasn't too worried at the time since, as the crossbows were only in two ranks, I'd kill enough to reduce some models from the second rank, and reduce attacks against me: my opponent would have to take dead rear-rank models from each side equally, right? Wrong – that only happens when a unit is down to the last rank, people! (The things you forget....)

6 attacks went into my prince, 3 hit and my opponent got his 6 to claim Lord number 2. I was ready to weep at this point, because my archmage had also just gone down to an (another) irresistible spell - Fate of Bjuna. He fell over, clutching his unused-scroll in his hand. End of Turn 2, both lords dead. Both miscasts had only rolled 7s. Uhoh.

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High Elf Turn 2 – a combination of enemy magic and failed charges puts the prince in danger while, off-screen, Lecalion gets knocked out by an irresistible death spell. Bad times.

Things went from bad to worse on the right flank. I put 4 rounds of Fury of Khaine and 4 rounds of flaming shooting- 3 of those with Arrow Attraction (he was more afraid of Vauls)- into the hydra and caused exactly 1 wound. To save my archers and machines from the monster, the spears stepped into the hydra's front arc (once the eagles had done sterling work pinning it in place for my shooting), didn't inflict any wounds and got chewed to pieces.

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An unstoppable hydra tears a whole in my right flank

The sacrifice paid dividends however and, whilst the monster fed and the blackguard trudged through no man's land, somehow things started to come good. My archers and repeaters avenged their masters and turned the enemy Level 4 into a pin-cushion (though afterwards they couldn't scratch the black guard). On the left, Caradath and the green archers killed the corsairs to a man, while the tardy dragon princes charged the crossbows in the flank, broke them after a couple of rounds and ran them down. While this was going on, the two remaining silver helms turned themselves into a harassment unit and drove the metal mage into cover before he eventually blew his own head off.

Now the backfield was clear, allowing my cavalry to surround and crush the cauldron. Alas, the black guard made a long charge to escape the net I was building for them and kill the swordmasters, while the hydra finished off both repeaters.

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The blackguard successfully trudge through a hail of arrows...

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But a successful High Elf breakthrough sees the core troops scattered and the cauldron destroyed.

Post-battle thoughts

Although I had terrible dice and so wasn't too bothered at first, after a little I got annoyed with myself for this first game. Both my lords were dead Turn 2 and four rounds of flame-ridden shooting did only 1 wound on the hydra before it ate my spears, archers and repeaters. I came back to pull off a 9-11 loss but, ultimately, I didn't rate my performance. It wasn't the best DE list and, really, I should have taken it. Maybe I just wasn't concentrating, but my tactics were pretty lazy (shoot in the centre, move cavalry around flank without really looking at where his points were), and throwing the prince in that early was silly and, in any case, the hydra was an easy (and important) target. A deliberate gamble that saw me with little to gain (the death of some corsairs) and a lot to lose. To cap it all, there was very little point deploying away from the deathmage since, obvisouly, she could fly.

Elsewhere, an ok plan was scuppered by my archmage dying from IF spells from the Lvl 4 (nothing I can do about that), and the failure of 4 turns of shooting to even dent the hydra. Honestly though, I think if I'd just concentrated my forces through the black guard & hydra and just left the enemy core infantry stranded out left (doable with my advantages in deployment and speed), I could have suffered really bad dice and still won. As it was, the plan was brittle enough that, when I got bad dice, I got heavily punished.

Lesson: don't get cocky; always bring your A-game!

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Last edited by Seredain on Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:40 am 
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GAME 2 - BEASTMEN

Introduction

So, I was mad about my performance in the last game and was determined to put on a good show here. And the opposing army was an interesting challenge in this respect. I hadn't played beasts in ages and this list looked as if it had some nasty anti-elf weaponry. Facing me was (roughly):

Flying Doombull (magic carpet, killy stuff)
Beastlord (general), 1+ AS granting attacks when saves made, killy stuff
BSB – Beast Banner (I think - one of the fighting characters certainly had the item which nerfs armour saves of units within 6” or 8” by 1)
Level 2 – Beasts – Stuff (my opponent didn't have a scroll)
Level 2 – Beasts – Power Stone (for Transformation)

38 Gor – extra hand weapons, full command
38 Gor – extra hand weapons, full command
5 Raiders
5 Raiders
5 Raiders
5 Harpies
5 Harpies
5 Harpies

3 x Razorgor Chariot
3 x Tuskgor Chariot

Deployment

This guy easily had the drop on me in deployment, and I didn't like it! But his army was of such a kind that, although he did not have to make his big infantry drops for ages, as very wide and very slow units they were bound to go in a particular part of the board, so I was able to bear this in mind when I deployed and try and use the terrain on my side to my best advantage.

It was pretty cluttered: a two-story building about 3/4 to my left with a hedged enclosure just big enough to accommodate the blue archers. Just outside the hedges, on either side, stood the repeaters. To the right, the infantry: white lions, spears and then swordmasters, all centrally deployed. Then came the silver helms with their commanders and, on the far right flank, the dragon princes.

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High Elf left flank

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High Elf right flank

Now, you may think (since I had to deploy these units before my opponent deployed his powerful drops), that I was being forced to give a lot away here. My cavalry were going to try and hammer his left flank while my infantry engaged the centre (somehow not being torn apart by chariots in the process) and my shooting held the left flank. For sure, this plan would have problems. He had his strong Beastlord horde stood directly opposite my helms, backed up by the Doombull and flanked by two chariots. In the centre, opposite my vulnerable infantry, stood the second horde and a total of 5 chariots (3 of them razorgors - arrgh!) and, covering both flanks (especially my left), an array of light units to close in to pick off my machines and hold up my cavalry. If I just threw my knights forward, they’d likely get tarpitted, perhaps overwhelmed, and my elite infantry would be left exposed to chariot devastation. Bottom line, if I played like I did in the last game (pretty much without any imagination), I would quite likely lose.

But thinking this way would be forgetting some crucial factors: the speed of cavalry, their ability to redeploy, my ability to run the characters as separate units (especially since my opponent had gone for buffs and lacked the Amber Spear) and the presence in the mid-field (toward my right-hand side) of two tall hills which blocked line of sight to and from my knights. This effectively created a no-man's land in the middle-right of the board. Whoever wanted to advance in the mid-east would have to take these hills but, if they did so, they would immediately be open to a charge by the opposition. The only exception was on the far east, wherein stood a clear path to the flanks of both armies.

As justice dictated, I won the first turn and took it with pleasure, hoping to put a few bolts into those chariots…

High Elves Turn 1

Seredain and Caradath immediately spurred their steeds and galloped left, in front of the infantry, to act as armoured bastions and threaten some long charges against the enemy chariots. The spears, more comfortable taking a chariot charge than others ("Ah yes mere infantry, poor beggars"), advanced a little in the wake of their nobles to better cover the elites and bring Lecalion within range of some decent targets. The silver helms stood their ground, meanwhile, since they had plenty of options open (being centrally deployed), in particular the ability to cover any advance by the two most easterly of the central chariots (one tuskgor and one razorgor).

In all, then, facing the 4 chariots in the centre I now had my shooting phase, magic phase (a good aggressive setup of Flames, Fury and Arrow Attraction, plus Shield and Drain), with some direct protection from three fast armoured units, each capable of holding or destroying a chariot. On my far right, the dragon princes stood stock-still, covering the field in front of them to dissuade any aggressive counters from the two chariots there.

A rubbish roll for power dice saw Lecalion only throw Arrow Attraction on the easterly razorgor chariot. My opponent failed to dispel, however and, with one dice left, I threw Shield on the prince.

Shooting began well as the green archers, camped in the building, put 3 wounds into one of the units of harpies and promptly panicked them off the board. But Luck then duly deserted me, as a hail of arrows and bolts into the cursed chariot produced few hits (in spite of the re-rolls) and only one wound. I’d have to do better than this at range else my cavalry would soon have a lot of work to do!

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One lucky hog

Beastmen Turn 1

Unsurprisingly, every thing moved forward in a pretty even line, with the infantry and chariots keeping pace with one another. And… that was pretty much it. The Doombull was hiding his magic carpet behind his back for the moment (and I had no idea it was there…). Magic saw a lame 7 v 6, but a disastrous dispel roll from me (including three 1's!), saw a Str/T buff go up on the shaman-horde to protect it from Flames.

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The hordes and chariots come trundling forth.

High Elves Turn 2

Since I had the advantage in ranged power, it was up to the beasts to come to me and, as I had the helms, dragon princes and eagles checking any rapid beastman moves into my right flank, and the bastion of green archers covering the enemy light troops on the left (for now at least), I felt comfortable holding ground in the centre. Seredain, Caradath and the helms all moved forward just a little, then, to threaten some long charges on the chariots and force some awkward choices on them next turn (stand and be shot, or advance and be charged?). In the meantime, it was time for shooting and magic to perform.

A decent number of dice came up again – 9 v 5 after a successful channel from the Lecalion. First, Flames of the Phoenix on his lord horde got rid of all his dice (a big cast on 3 dice which he was very keen to counter), and I was free to follow up with a Fury on the wounded Razorgor chariot (the one nearer the helms), dragging 2 more wounds off of it (leaving it on 1) and an arrow attraction on another razorgor chariot. I had a couple of dice left, so I cheekily plonked another Shield on Seredain and then threw Drain Magic up. Ah, I love cheap spells!

Shooting needed to perform and, this time, did so admirably. Arrows from the blue archers and bolts from their attending machines arced through the sky and pinned the cursed razorgor chariot to the ground. Since Lady luck wanted balance, however, the green archers failed and only pulled down a single raider from the formation advancing on their building.

Image
As High Elf archery begins to take its toll, the noble commanders re-position themselves to defend the centre of the line.

Beastmen Turn 2

Another round like the last one and my opponent's chariotry would be in trouble. Since, however, there was no way he could get them near the elven infantry without inviting a charge from the cavalry, they were in a pickle. So, he decided to roll the dice (literally) and try a series of long charges from the three chariots in the centre- two needing 11 and one needing a 10. Not surprisingly, none of them made it and the chariots continued to rumble forward, now within comfortable charge range of my knights and with the shaman-horde in their wake. The rest of the beastman line came on as it had before (the doombull still sneakily concealing his carpet). Light troops from my right now rushed forward to throw javelins at the swordmasters. To the West, the (slightly) damaged unit of raiders likewise approached within javelin-shot of the green archers' building.

Magic and, with Drain Magic rolling through the sky and a High Elf archmage backing it up with +3 to dispel (cracking), my opponent couldn't get anything off. Shooting saw a few javelins fly but none of them accurately.

Image
The battlelines draw closer, and the enemy are greeted by the sound of galloping hooves...

High Elves Turn 3

Now that arrows and magic had done some work, it was time for lances and swords to do theirs. The silver helms suddenly swung left and declared a charge into the nearest (injured) razorgor chariot. Caradath declared against the same chariot while Seredain charged the other alone. Not wanting to block off the shaman-horde or put 2d6 impact hits through it, both chariots held their ground and hoped for the best. Unfortunately for them, all the elven horse successfully covered the gap.

It didn't all go my way, though. My opponent had marched his doombull up alongside the infantry and left exposed some light units which, if charged, would provide an easy path into the enemy's back field. Sensing an opportunity to cause mayhem, therefore, the dragon princes declared a long charge into the raiders before them (needing a 10) and promptly failed it.

In the wake of the charge in the centre, the spears (now unafraid of chariots) marched on as fast as they could to bring their ranks into play. The white lions rushed on behind to offer support later (by pivoting to cover a flank) and, importantly, to get out of line of sight of the last chariot on the left flank - a tuskgor. To the right the swordmasters (who had deployed left of the silver helms), now advanced to cover the cavalry's right flank against attack, tempting the nearby tuskgor chariot with a 10" charge. Biding their time to block something important, the eagles followed behind in support.

Magic followed the same pattern: average dice, Flames on the shaman-horde dispelled, Fury and Arrow Curse punishing the tuskgor chariot thundering towards my firebase on the left. I didn't, however, have enough dice for Shield or Drain this turn, which was annoying (since combat was getting warmed up). Shooting followed up nicely and performed in classic High Elf style: the bolt throwers and green archers easily finished off the tuskgor and raiders approaching the building on the left while, on the right, the blue archers killed all 5 of the harpies approaching from the East. Little by little, all the support units operating around these big beastman hordes were being withered away.

Combat was over in the blink of an eye as the elven cavalry smashed its enemies apart: the silver helms crushing the injured razorgor chariot, their heroes carving the healthy one asunder with ease, and all three units overrunning headlong into the waiting gor horde and its valuable shamans. Since my characters were individual units here, I was free to connect them separately to the enemy shamans (so long as I maximised contact) and then run the knights into the centre, which I duly did.

Having deployed in the East to block my knights, the beastlord and doombull now found themselves badly out of position as the entire High Elf army surged toward their right flank.

Image


Beastmen Turn 3

Well, the Doombull wasn't entirely powerless. He pulled out a very fetching oriental rug and flew straight at the dragon princes. They duly thought better of holding their ground and fled back toward the ruins on my right - a very impressive (and understandable) 10". A failed charge was the result. In the centre, the last chariot (of the 5 that had initially occupied the ground in front of the shaman-horde) now tried a long charge into the swordmasters and, typically, failed it.

A pivotal magic phase saw a moderate 8 dice vs 5. Seeing the elven prince galloping toward him full tilt, the Transformation shaman popped his power scroll and threw 6 dice for good measure at his big spell... but he didn't get the double 6, I burned my dispel scroll and then dominated the rest of his phase with my 5 dispel dice. No way out.

Combat saw Seredain go to work and destroy, in one fell swoop, half the enemy magic phase. The first shaman fell heavily to the ground and into the body of his horde smashed a steel wall of elven heavy horse. The silver helms did precision work, felling 5 beastmen and crushing another under the weight of their horses while Caradath cut the enemy champion to pieces. The beasts struck back but couldn't penetrate the knights' armour (even though Seredain was just clipped by the armour-nerfing item in the beaslord horde). An elven victory, then but the beasts were within in range of their battle standard, stood their ground.

High Elves Turn 4

In an attempt to press home the elven advantage and break the back of the shaman horde, the spear column committed to an 8” charge but rolled something tragic like double 1's. The swordmasters knew their business better, however, and successfully charged the penultimate beast chariot.

Since the beastlord horde would soon threaten my right flank, the white lions wheeled right and marched toward the swordmasters, Lecalion safely in their charge. To keep the looming chariot away from the swords' flank, one eagle parked infront of it. The other, ready to buy me another turn, sat safely behind the lions.

Image
The chariot threat seems neutralised as the High Elves rush to the attack.

Magic, with a mighty archmage taking on a lowly shaman, went well for the High Elves. Vaul's Unmaking on the beastlord-horde was dispelled, but this drew all the dice I needed to invoke Flames of the Phoenix on them. A full third of the gorhorde, 13 models, melted. This was swiftly followed by Arrow Attraction against them, and another 1-dice Shield on the silver helms.

Shooting continued the damage: another full rank of gor was, with the aid of the Arrow Curse, skewered into the earth.

Combat. Caradath slew the last shaman with ease, Seredain chopped up a few gor and I won combat. Again, the beastmen held their ground. To the right, the swordmasters carved up the razorgor chariot and reformed to face the beaslord horde. Against only two ranks of beasts, they fancied their chances.

Image
Elven harassment against the beastman left flank pins it in place even as the right begins to come under real pressure.

Endgame

After this it was pretty much a clean-up operation. The Doombull eventually succeeded in killing the dragon princes, but this left him way out of the game and he couldn't get back into it. Worse was to come for the beasts. Once the last chariot was dead, the beastlord horde as absolutely punished by my shooting and magic until, finally, Seredain (who had killed his way out of combat with the other horde), charged in, invoked the power of the Trickster and cut the beastlord apart in one round of combat. The shattered remnant of the his retinue broke and were run down by the vengeful prince. Caradath and the silver helms ground down their opponents and, even before the spearelves came in for a flank charge (having manoeuvred around the left side), the shaman horde broke and was likewise destroyed.

Image
As the rival generals finally meet in combat, the crippled enemy battle line begins to collapse.

The beastman army was almost completely destroyed and I had a 20-0 victory... Except that the last few dice were thrown after the whistle (my opponent needed regular cigarette breaks so we were pushed for time!), and I ended up with only a 15-5. Even so, the result left me playing the 2nd place army in the last round. I'd take that.

Image
Victory to the High Elves!






NEXT ROUND... HERO-HAMMER BRETTONIANS

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:41 am 
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He's back!!! \:D/ \:D/ \:D/

I haven't even read the reports yet, no time, but woohoo! \:D/

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:19 pm 
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Hahaha, hello Tetengo. Yeah, for the present I have emerged, blinking, into the sunlight. I'll have to crawl back into my cave at some point, inevitably, but it's so nice out here...

New tournament with SpellArcher coming up in a couple of weeks (will be my first set of games in ages), so I had to get these reports out!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:08 pm 
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Quick comment. Chariots fleeing through units do not cause impact hits in 8th edition.

Otherwise. In game 1, I saw that happening with the hydra. No mystery why hydras are seen as overpowered, and spears do not have the ability to kill one. Your best bet was to use the cavalry (General and BSB with DPs to dodge both breath and Tstomp). Seredain, popping loec would force those re-rolls I believe (or does loec not mention regen? I don't have my HE book handy), maybe the princes+ BSB could put a few more on, and you would be immune to his breath attacks in case you completely whiff (remember, hydra breath strength is equal to his wounds remaining... so if u charged with helms and whiffed ur helms would take 2D6 S5 breath hits. That is why I said princes). I also agree going after corsairs with your cav was a mistake, but primarily because I didn't think you had any other unit to handle the hydra (I saw one make a long flank charge on my white lion horde. When the dust settled, he had killed 6 through attacks, 10 through breath, and 4 through Tstomp, plus the masters killed 2 more). With no flaming attacks on any of your combat units, you need to essentially do 10 wounds at S6 to kill him, which is unlikely with any of your combat units. Therefore, he will survive to attack back. Cavalry, at least, have the capacity to handle the hits in return without simply dying, and they can't get Tstomped. Neither your lions nor your swords could handle a hydra in those numbers. They'd likely just die. Oh, side note: this game exemplifies why I give flaming banner to DPs. DPs can kill a hydra or HPA on the charge (they always have for me). I don't trust my ability to roll a 6 to wound enough to give it to archers. Besides, as he has a 4+ armor, to statistically ensure you get a wound through, you have to roll TWO 6s thanks to his 4+ armor save (ignoring the fact that he has an extra 5+ crew save which changes the odds slightly).

And I think the lions taking the long way around the building was not the best idea. I would have hid them in the shadow of the building and try to position so he has to decide whether he takes a flank charge by either lions or swords. Lions want to go in the flank anyway rather than the rear. You lose 2As and he loses a minimum of 5 against them (10 if cauldron buff gives +1 A). The long way around took them out of position. Basically, I think your trap took too long to set against an army that has a march of 10".

Game 2, he used his Doombull poorly, plain and simple. Also, he should not have charged the chariots attempting the long charge, and instead moved them to the flank. I would have had the infantry advance to tempt the charge by the cavalry or a long charge by infantry, set the chariots and doombull for counter-charging, and use chaff to block the scary swordmasters (not that afraid of lions in this case). With the doombull he made the same mistake you did in game 1, namely he charged his most powerful killer at a relatively cheap unit not worthy of its attention. Maybe he had a goal in mind for later, but he should have been able to predict you would just flee. Likewise, he should have fled with his chariots when you tried the long charge (well, the chariots shouldn't have been there in the first place as I mentioned above, but I digress). You did well to capitalize on his mistakes. Well played.

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