Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Reports
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:13 pm
Hi Seredain,
Just wanted to say what a great thread this is, I find your approach to list design really inspiring, and want to wish you all the best for your upcoming game, and the future. Looks like it will be the toughest test of a cavalry Prince list to date!
I was hoping that maybe before that comes round you might have time to expand on your idea of what a 3000pt version of the list might look like? I have been thinking about this for some time, based on the different versions of your list so far and the 4000pt list you posed a few pages back, I have come up with my own idea.
I was hoping to get your critique on it, but first I wanted to know in general what you think of the effectiveness of your list at different point levels, both higher and lower? Your upcoming game is a good example of what I mean, while still at 2500pts it has several "big monsters" and a "super hoard" at larger point levels I would expect these choices to be more common, do you still think the choices made in your list will be as effective? Namely MSU units, Cavalry Prince, Core composition, high magic?
An example of this would be the Plucker Pendant, I'm sure it has more value in higher point games than lower ones, but if you are nearly guaranteed to see bigger monsters in larger games do you actually need a better ward save overall on your Prince?
Anyway onto my version of your list at 3000pts,
Prince - Barded Steed, Heavy Armour, Shield, Giant Blade, Helm of Fortune, Talisman of Loec, Plucker Pendant - 283
Archmage - Level 4, Life Magic, Folariath's Robe, Dispel Scroll - 325
Battle Standard Bearer - Barded Steed, Great Weapon, Heavy Armour, Shield, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone, Other Trickster's Shard - 190
Mage - Level 2, HIgh Magic, Annulian Crystal
35 Spearelves - Full Command - 340
15 Archers - Musician, Standard, Banner of Eternal Flame - 190
10 Archers - 110
10 Archers - 110
14 Swordmasters - Full command, Amulet of Light, Banner of Sorcery - 305
14 White Lions - Full Command, Gleaming Pennant - 245
8 Silver Helms - Musician, Shields - 192
5 Dragon Princes - 150
Tironic Chariot - 85
2 Repeater Bolt Throwers - 200
2 Eagles - 100
= 3000 points
I have tried to put back in all the elements that you have had to take out, due to points constraints, such as the Banner of Sorcery and Chariot, while also adding a second support Mage.
I chose to reintroduce Life on the the Archmage and have High on the support mage, mainly due to the presence of the Banner of Sorcery, giving more dice to throw at larger Spells (Dwellers) whilst also having the availability of cheaper support spells on the High Mage.
Im not sure I'm happy with this though, and could easily switch the Lores around, or keep High on the Archmage and and something like Fire or Metal on the support mage for extra damage potential? Ultimately though I think with so few few bodies on the field (made correspondingly worse at 3000pts) support and defensive magic will be more useful. Which leads me nicely onto my next concern.
I was a little shocked with how few bodies were added with the extra 500pts, while some units filled out a little (White lions, Spearelves) and another drop was added (Archers) the Flaming banner archers had to go down in size. Yes getting the chariot back in was nice, but I can't help but feel a few more bodies would help in survivability, and that units such as the Swordmasters that are now much more expensive, are still no larger, and that much easier to wipe out.
This brings me back to the support mage, its a massive points sink from the extra 500pts, taking up 240pts if you include the Banner of Sorcery and the requisite Standard bearer. That is enough for another unit of 14 sword masters/ White Lions, or 7 more Swordmasters and a Lion Chariot.
So I guess my question is do you think another mage adds more to the list than the extra punch and survivability of more elves?
Your feedback would be greatly appreciated, and again thanks for the awesome thread!
Just wanted to say what a great thread this is, I find your approach to list design really inspiring, and want to wish you all the best for your upcoming game, and the future. Looks like it will be the toughest test of a cavalry Prince list to date!
I was hoping that maybe before that comes round you might have time to expand on your idea of what a 3000pt version of the list might look like? I have been thinking about this for some time, based on the different versions of your list so far and the 4000pt list you posed a few pages back, I have come up with my own idea.
I was hoping to get your critique on it, but first I wanted to know in general what you think of the effectiveness of your list at different point levels, both higher and lower? Your upcoming game is a good example of what I mean, while still at 2500pts it has several "big monsters" and a "super hoard" at larger point levels I would expect these choices to be more common, do you still think the choices made in your list will be as effective? Namely MSU units, Cavalry Prince, Core composition, high magic?
An example of this would be the Plucker Pendant, I'm sure it has more value in higher point games than lower ones, but if you are nearly guaranteed to see bigger monsters in larger games do you actually need a better ward save overall on your Prince?
Anyway onto my version of your list at 3000pts,
Prince - Barded Steed, Heavy Armour, Shield, Giant Blade, Helm of Fortune, Talisman of Loec, Plucker Pendant - 283
Archmage - Level 4, Life Magic, Folariath's Robe, Dispel Scroll - 325
Battle Standard Bearer - Barded Steed, Great Weapon, Heavy Armour, Shield, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone, Other Trickster's Shard - 190
Mage - Level 2, HIgh Magic, Annulian Crystal
35 Spearelves - Full Command - 340
15 Archers - Musician, Standard, Banner of Eternal Flame - 190
10 Archers - 110
10 Archers - 110
14 Swordmasters - Full command, Amulet of Light, Banner of Sorcery - 305
14 White Lions - Full Command, Gleaming Pennant - 245
8 Silver Helms - Musician, Shields - 192
5 Dragon Princes - 150
Tironic Chariot - 85
2 Repeater Bolt Throwers - 200
2 Eagles - 100
= 3000 points
I have tried to put back in all the elements that you have had to take out, due to points constraints, such as the Banner of Sorcery and Chariot, while also adding a second support Mage.
I chose to reintroduce Life on the the Archmage and have High on the support mage, mainly due to the presence of the Banner of Sorcery, giving more dice to throw at larger Spells (Dwellers) whilst also having the availability of cheaper support spells on the High Mage.
Im not sure I'm happy with this though, and could easily switch the Lores around, or keep High on the Archmage and and something like Fire or Metal on the support mage for extra damage potential? Ultimately though I think with so few few bodies on the field (made correspondingly worse at 3000pts) support and defensive magic will be more useful. Which leads me nicely onto my next concern.
I was a little shocked with how few bodies were added with the extra 500pts, while some units filled out a little (White lions, Spearelves) and another drop was added (Archers) the Flaming banner archers had to go down in size. Yes getting the chariot back in was nice, but I can't help but feel a few more bodies would help in survivability, and that units such as the Swordmasters that are now much more expensive, are still no larger, and that much easier to wipe out.
This brings me back to the support mage, its a massive points sink from the extra 500pts, taking up 240pts if you include the Banner of Sorcery and the requisite Standard bearer. That is enough for another unit of 14 sword masters/ White Lions, or 7 more Swordmasters and a Lion Chariot.
So I guess my question is do you think another mage adds more to the list than the extra punch and survivability of more elves?
Your feedback would be greatly appreciated, and again thanks for the awesome thread!