Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Reports
Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:37 am
Yeah, if it was classed as 'heavy armour' or some such then it would replace mundane armour. But magic helms stack on top.
Ulthuan, Home of the Asur
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SpellArcher wrote:'The standard of the High Elves -blazing furiously in the sunlight.'
Epic stuff!
Tiralya wrote:I loved the little fluffy bit, and they way it worked in the game was priceless, well played Sir.
Cheers boys! The BSB came good, eh? Steadfast on LD7 isn't the same as unbreakable...Elithmar of Lothern wrote:Excellent game! I loved the fluffy bits too. Aenarion couldn't have done better.
Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote: This is a very good example of how flexible your army is and one of the aspects I tried to use when I played with it. Your characters can dart from the unit any time and if you only remember to position the unit properly, they have a lot of opportunities to be useful with or without their bodyguards. The situation on the board changed and your units cannot make a combined charge? No worries, you can go with more individual hunt and earn some points too.
I had my eye on this but, since there were a few rules quibbles this game (I only put up the ones I wasn't sure I got right), I didn't bother to fret about it. I think it was ok but, for the record, you're perfectly correct: you can reform into a building so long as no models move more than double their movement in the process of making the reform. It's a good trick to remember, anyway.Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote: I am not sure, however, if reforming, thus enabling marauders to move further than their normal movement allowance, counts when they wanted to enter the building. I don't have the book with me at the moment but it does not look clear to me.
Yes, having re-read the rules, I think this is correct. At the time, I was going by the (deceptive) picture in the rulebook showing the chaos lord charging out of his unit at an angle. The wording, though, says that, if a character charges out of a unit, normal rules for movement resume. I don't have the book on me now, but the wording is that these rules apply as he leaves. As Curu said, then this means that a character will always have to move straight out of the ranks before being free to perform other manoeuvres. Something to bear in mind.Nicene wrote:I think your opponent certainly has the right of this issue about the solo character charging (whether in a unit or otherwise). According to your diagram, it seems that Seredain would indeed be wheeling (holding his left front corner still) to the left when exiting the unit.
The Tactics of the Chaos ArmyNicene wrote: I can't understand the tactics of your opponent. He would have had a chance to do some damage on the east while your DPs were prancing around the building; seems like he should have been pressing forward at full speed. Isn't that what his list is designed to do?
Yeah this is exactly what my opponent had done. I refer to there being a 'Terror Banner' plus an 'Eye of the Gods manipulation item' [Edit: 'Favour of the Gods', SA tells me]. The end result is the same, of course. I'm not too familiar with the names of Chaos items but, in any event, my opponent was packing the full chosen combo.Furion wrote:This is done perfectly by the rules. Also, if he would have Mask of EEE he would also be entitled to make the reroll for fear/terror result.a double-shrine Tzeentch chosen unit toting the Eye of the Gods manipulation item and the Terror banner. In this instance, the controlling player (who's actually a really cool guy and excellent player, by the way, though you might hate him for this!), deliberately chooses Eye gifts he already has (using the item), so that he can keep rolling on the Eye table until he gets what he wants (the +1 attack, +1 toughness or ward save). I've literally stood there for 5 minutes and watched him roll these dice. He knows it sucks, but apparently there's no rule against it so he's free to take advantage.
This is a really good question, Shinzou. I hadn't thought about this point until you raised it, but I've been having a good think...Shinzou wrote: Seradin: Question about the A-Mage: Is it possible to take 2 lvl 2s instead? you lose the 4+ on activating spells, but still got +3 to dispell, with this you could potentialy divide your magic between 2 mages. With this you could hopefully get one mage who is more combat-oriented and one that can stay back more, to minimize the risk of losing the whole magicphase early?
Edit: Also this would give you 2 drain magic if this is necessary?
Arratak wrote:Hey where's seradin's most recent and up to date list??
I've let the contents page slip of late (I'll update it with a major session soon enough), but the 'Latest List' is now up there as per usual. Even if I don't add in all the article links to the contents page (and I'm about 5 pages behind), I'll usually try and keep the 'latest list' entry up to date for ease of reference.Shinzou wrote:I think that the list on page 1 isnt the most recent one anymore so 3 or 4 pages back is where I would look.
BorkBork - this is a good question to raise. I realise that I actually re-lost the Banner a few pages back when I switched to High Magic, and never said why!BorkBork wrote:Hi Seredain,
Where can i find your reasoning behind dropping the banner of sorcery?
I went trough the last couple of pages but i cant find it.
thx
I think this is right. Chosen are good enough at killing without characters, and more troops brings more wounds to benefit from the mega-ward (honestly, what's going to stand against 3x blessed chosen even without heroes?). i suspect that the real reason for the characters originally was the Leadership bunker to keep other units, especially the hellcannon, in check. But I don't think this is the best use of points either in terms of the fighting potential of the unit as a whole, nor the heroes in particular. Maybe this unit is a case of trying to do too much with one set of models.SpellArcher wrote:I can see it might be good in some cases but for all-comers I don't trust it. It will not enjoy Dreaded 13th for example. I'm not expert on the optimal size but I'd be tempted to go maybe 20 with no characters. The troops are killy enough IMHO.
Deroga, this is a lovely synopsis of why I think High Magic is so good.Deroga wrote:It is interesting to read your experiences with High Magic on a single lvl 4 caster, since i have been having the same success with this setup as well. The low casting values, while still having solid impacts on the game, combined with the 'jack of all trades' the lore provides makes for a solid setup for a list that fields only 1 caster.
This spell was my primary reason for switching to High Magic (though the Shield was an important compensation for the lost Lore of Life and it took the extra shooting for the Arrow Curse to finally push me over the edge). It is, as pretty much all the other spells, useful against everyone and, as you say, taking away that serious item can just completely nullify your enemy's plans. What the hell would be the point of the Cavalry Prince without his Giant Blade? How can the unkillable pegasus dreadlord work without the pendant? It's a wonderful spell. And, because they're terrified of losing their buzz item, it's a great spell for drawing dispel dice to accomplish other things. Remember this as a tactical tool: this spell only needs to work once to do its job. For the early part of the game, then, you may want to cast it early on only a few dice, knowing your opponent will use up his dispel dice and let through your damage spells. Later, you can chuck more dice at it and get it through.Deroga wrote:Dark Elves arent so scary when they lose sacrificial dagger turn 1-2, and the unkillable dreadlord inst so unkillable once hes lost pennant of khaleth. Infernal Puppet, Hellheart, Cupped Hand of the Old Ones, Talisman of Preservation, Crown of Command, etc, its surprising just how many people rely on their magic items.
So far, I'm loving it. I'm not saying there won't be times that I don't want T7 regrowing swordmasters (there certainly will be), but High Magic benefits so many more facets of my army than just the elites that it's hard to pass up, especially for the bargain casting values. An excellent lore for single-caster armies, especially when you've got no Banner.Deroga wrote:Anyways, just wanted express how interesting it is to see someone else has found the amazingness of a lvl 4 High Mage
SA you put it very well - that is exactly how I see my magic phase working. You'll remember that I originally chose Life over other lores for two reasons: miscast protection for my single caster, and synergy with the vulnerable elite infantry. That was it. Dwellers is an excellent spell but, whenever it became the focus of my strategy (very hard to resist), my phase often didn't serve me as well. In any event, even back then I didn't take Dwellers for character-killing: I wanted it for horde-melting to bring big infantry units down to strength for my smaller elites - something Flames does for (much) cheaper whilst remaining in play. Synergy, not spell power, is the thing and I think overall High Magic just does it better (Flesh to Stone aside).SpellArcher wrote:On the balance though my list needs the Banner because it does not have the combat power of Seredain's and hence must try to squeeze more out of the magic phase, even at the expense of other things. With his cavalry bus, RBT, elite infantry etc. Seredain has plenty of threat already and I hazard that to some extent the job of his magic phase is to let those things work more efficiently.
Jeesus, Eldria! Someone had their wheaties this morning.Eldria wrote: Galrauch, 616
Throgg the Troll King 175
Albrikt the Exalted, Battle Standard Bearer of the Great Drake, Mark of Tzeentch, Talsiman of Endurance, Dragon Helm, Warriors Bane, Shield, Riding on Chariot 290
17 Chaos Trolls 765
5 Warhounds 30
5 Warhounds 30
5 Warhounds 30
Shaggoth: Great Weapon 285
Shaggoth: 2 Hand Weapons 275
Points: 2496
* elf offs being known to be rather silly affairs involving long pointy hats and hair extensions....
Darn right I don't! Not unless he's full of bolts/swords/axes/lances already and I can reliably kill him in one round. A little bird has told me of the breath of change - T test or death with no dragon armour save, so that's a bitch. The T6 matters, though, because it means I can hurt him with repeaters on a 4+. Not enough to kill him, perhaps, but enough to grind him down pre-combat.Curu Olannon wrote:You really should read up on Galrauch because his T does not matter. Trust me, you do not want to engage him with your prince...
Haha! So there's the rub. I suspect this and a Throgg troll horde will be an interesting proposition. Eldria, you weren't by any chance trying to build an anti-high-elf-cavalry army, were you..?galrich in 8th edition is one of our best special characters. Hits like a dragon, breaths like 3 dragons and has loremaster tzeench? quite a good combination for the points. He will work well against some armies more than others (rapes high elves for breakfast)...
Never! Ever, ever, ever!SpellArcher wrote:Haven't you had enough of Dragons Eldria?
Rawwwwr!Seredain wrote:Jeesus, Eldria! Someone had their wheaties this morning.
As it happens no this is my 'fun' army. (Compared to the High Elves/Demons) I take it to every Throne of skulls in whatever guise points allow and while I love Galrauch my level 4 disc wizard is much much more power-dull. The big G gets out every limited chance he gets.Seredain wrote:Haha! So there's the rub. I suspect this and a Throgg troll horde will be an interesting proposition. Eldria, you weren't by any chance trying to build an anti-high-elf-cavalry army, were you..?
He is not quite a unsupported as it may at first appear, but we will have to wait for the game to occur for me to display my true evil!Brewmaster_D wrote:Poor Galrauch. That's kind of where I stand on this one.
Brewmaster_D wrote: Move in too quickly, and he's got a cavalry bus with boatloads of high strength attacks that bash through his scaly skin and render his 6+ ward meaningless.
If Galrauch is a lord choice, doesn't that mean he can fight in challenges and therefore hide from a whole unit's worth of attacks? And on that note, I'm guessing that no character of mine would get a LOS save from his breath weapons when used in combat as part of a challenge?Eldria wrote:Yup Galrauch is a lord and Throgg a hero.
This is a good point and something to cheer the heart, for sure. It's easy to think of models like this running rampant - in any single situation I imagine him in, he's extremely powerful, but he can only be in certain places doing certain things at any one time, and he can only breathe once. Also, if he's able to magic me, I'm almost certainly able to shoot him.Brewmaster_D wrote: He's got a serious case of conflicting interests - wait around too long for a combo charge or a good spot to breathe, and he's going to get pelted by bolts... Remember, at the end of the day, this guys is 600+ points, with only T6, 6 wounds and a 6+ ward. He packs a mean punch, and Eldria has designed a list with plenty of target saturation, but at the end of the day when you've got that many points in one spot that happens to be both a combat monster, artillery and your primary caster all in one, he tends to attract quite a bit more attention than he has survivability.
A big reason I switched back to two repeaters. If you have inferior ranged ability, it forces you to do uncomfortable things with your movement. I don't like it!Brewmaster_D wrote: Having said that, he's also the reason I switched from my original magic setup to the coven of light - this guy taught me a hard lesson about not having an answer to mobile threats!
Haha! I'm guessing that the codename for this will be Operation Evil Bumrush.Eldria wrote: He is not quite a unsupported as it may at first appear, but we will have to wait for the game to occur for me to display my true evil!
Being a trainee solicitor can be a pain. Al Pacino doesn't take days off...Eldria wrote:Unfortunate circumstances dictacte is it likely not to happen until April now
As a Choas character not only can Galrauch fight in challenges he must challenge and must accept. Same with Throgg and the Battle Standard. Sadly the Shaggoths are not characters and can not challenge at allSeredain wrote:Brewmaster_D wrote: Move in too quickly, and he's got a cavalry bus with boatloads of high strength attacks that bash through his scaly skin and render his 6+ ward meaningless.If Galrauch is a lord choice, doesn't that mean he can fight in challenges and therefore hide from a whole unit's worth of attacks? And on that note, I'm guessing that no character of mine would get a LOS save from his breath weapons when used in combat as part of a challenge?Eldria wrote:Yup Galrauch is a lord and Throgg a hero.
From the corebook faq version on page 9.Q: If a model with a Breath Weapon, Stomp or Thunderstomp is in
a challenge, can these attacks hit models not in the challenge?(p102)
A: No.
Too true, you have plenty of things he does not want to fighting. Chances are i'll take extreme lengths to keep him away from Seredain and content myself munching on archers/bolt throwers. You never know though I might get crazy if I see a good chance...Seredain wrote:This is a good point and something to cheer the heart, for sure. It's easy to think of models like this running rampant - in any single situation I imagine him in, he's extremely powerful, but he can only be in certain places doing certain things at any one time, and he can only breathe once. Also, if he's able to magic me, I'm almost certainly able to shoot him.Brewmaster_D wrote: He's got a serious case of conflicting interests - wait around too long for a combo charge or a good spot to breathe, and he's going to get pelted by bolts... Remember, at the end of the day, this guys is 600+ points, with only T6, 6 wounds and a 6+ ward. He packs a mean punch, and Eldria has designed a list with plenty of target saturation, but at the end of the day when you've got that many points in one spot that happens to be both a combat monster, artillery and your primary caster all in one, he tends to attract quite a bit more attention than he has survivability.
Uncomfortable? Only if your plan doesn't start at "CHARGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" People shooting when you plan to rush over and eat things rarely changes that initial planSeredain wrote:A big reason I switched back to two repeaters. If you have inferior ranged ability, it forces you to do uncomfortable things with your movement. I don't like it!Brewmaster_D wrote: Having said that, he's also the reason I switched from my original magic setup to the coven of light - this guy taught me a hard lesson about not having an answer to mobile threats!
Close buts its a bit more Operation Chargeblerghvomitvomiteateat ooolook I grew an extra headSeredain wrote:Haha! I'm guessing that the codename for this will be Operation Evil Bumrush.Eldria wrote: He is not quite a unsupported as it may at first appear, but we will have to wait for the game to occur for me to display my true evil!
Indeed not!Seredain wrote:Being a trainee solicitor can be a pain. Al Pacino doesn't take days off...Eldria wrote:Unfortunate circumstances dictacte is it likely not to happen until April now
Well of course, and it has to be cvilised. This is Ulthuan after all.spellarcher wrote:Are we actually witnessing (rather civilized) slap talk on Ulthuan?
Sigged!Seredain wrote:
Haha! I'm guessing that the codename for this will be Operation Evil Bumrush.Eldria wrote:
Close buts its a bit more Operation Chargeblerghvomitvomiteateat ooolook I grew an extra head
Excellent plan! Seredain won't know what's hit him!Eldria wrote:Close buts its a bit more Operation Chargeblerghvomitvomiteateat ooolook I grew an extra head
Hah! Eldria if you vomit on me I will be miffed.SpellArcher wrote:Excellent plan! Seredain won't know what's hit him!Eldria wrote:Close buts its a bit more Operation Chargeblerghvomitvomiteateat ooolook I grew an extra head
But what will the trolls do?
All the more glory for me!Eldria wrote:Driving back from Throne of Skulls (a 140 player event) which I won! With a 2000 point Troll army.
Suddenly my fun army seems a bit good... Weeeee!