Re: The Cavalry Prince - List Design, Tactics, Battle Reports
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:19 pm
Because he is?
Ulthuan, Home of the Asur
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I hope he is not doing this on a public computer and I really hope he is wearing trousers at the very least...BorkBork wrote:why do i get the picture that you are sitting almost crouched behind you pc, with shaking hands holding a sigarette and a bottle of wiskey, while the floor is littered with empty packages and you are mumbling: "battle report, battle report, i want battle report"Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:It is already difficult to wait for the report and now you made the teaser even more interesting
Haha! Fortunately (especially for you, guys!) nothing like that had happened. Appropriate training from White Tower and some paining-meditation did help to control myselfSirgilly wrote:I hope he is not doing this on a public computer and I really hope he is wearing trousers at the very least...BorkBork wrote:why do i get the picture that you are sitting almost crouched behind you pc, with shaking hands holding a sigarette and a bottle of wiskey, while the floor is littered with empty packages and you are mumbling: "battle report, battle report, i want battle report"Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:It is already difficult to wait for the report and now you made the teaser even more interesting
This is a beautiful, beautiful thing. Nice report, Ether Drake - I enjoyed reading it. Deployment was all a bit random but you used your manoeuvreability well to take the most advantage of it. Well played.ether_drake wrote:
Combined arms mash-up. Sweet.
Ah, sweet memoriesSeredain wrote: This is a beautiful, beautiful thing. Nice report, Ether Drake - I enjoyed reading it. Deployment was all a bit random but you used your manoeuvreability well to take the most advantage of it. Well played.
He's wily, eh? He's built a tough nut to crack here. One of the more careful opponents I've played. He doesn't throw units away unless he thinks he can get something for the points. It's a rarer approach to battle than some people think- and can certainly poses problems when there's little room for manoeuvre.Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote: I must admit I really like the development of the battle so far. And I admire Mallas and his patience. The trap was not that difficult to spot but then it was also very tempting to attack anyway. He had +5 to combat result before it even started. But I think he is definitely better with his rock solid battle line and the way he keeps denying you that flank attack is excellent.
Huh, I would have gotten rid of awakening, what was the reasoning behind this?Seredain wrote:Battle Report – High Elves vs Lizardmen
Lecalion did fine and got awakening, throne, stone and Dwellers. I had to choose between regrowth and Dwellers in the end... and the chance to plonk a Slann from afar was just too tempting.
Here's that postcard:Seredain wrote:I then reformed my unit and this posed a problem. In the end, we kept the BSB in contact with the slann and moved the prince over to keep the unit of 2 elves together (and maintain contact with the same number of models). I'm not sure what the protocol is for that- do you separate a unit into individual models so that one can continue to fight a challenge, or do you move one over to keep them together as a unit, even where that involves 'sliding'? Answers on a postcard please!
Because I placed the marker in a position to force all of his troops forward, but they were not close enough at that stage to charge. So I was basically trying to set up my own charges by placing the marker at his rear.ether_drake wrote:I do have to question why you didn't try harder to avoid the comet. Was there simply no room for manouevre, or were you gambling that you'd have charged out of range by the time it would likely hit?
Good strategy. But I guess you needed more screening or redirecting units to tie up his charges.Mallas wrote:Because I placed the marker in a position to force all of his troops forward, but they were not close enough at that stage to charge. So I was basically trying to set up my own charges by placing the marker at his rear.
I'm still kicking myself about not activating Burning Ailment. Against low toughness models, it rips them to shreds. 2D6 STR4 hits per unit within 2D6 range and no armor saves allowed. Those White lions were only a couple of inches away in the ruined building and then they had to pop outside. 2 full turns would have destoyed that unit and saved that flank. Grrrrrrrrrr...ether_drake wrote:Good strategy. But I guess you needed more screening or redirecting units to tie up his charges.Mallas wrote:Because I placed the marker in a position to force all of his troops forward, but they were not close enough at that stage to charge. So I was basically trying to set up my own charges by placing the marker at his rear.
I actually know one lizardmen player who uses this as a foundation for his strategy. Basically, he has two blocks of 30 or so saurus to tie up units, places his engine of the gods between them, and detonates it turn after turn. Works great against any high armor opponent (which is actually the same stuff that can't be brought down by his 4 units of skink skirmishers and 2 charmelion units with their massed poison darts, so compliments his army well). Last tournament, he got two massacres against daemons and bretonnians, and one loss (to my HEs). Most impressive was how he handled bretonnians. Tabled by turn 4, helped in no small part by the engine. Something to consider.Mallas wrote: I'm still kicking myself about not activating Burning Ailment. Against low toughness models, it rips them to shreds. 2D6 STR4 hits per unit within 2D6 range and no armor saves allowed. Those White lions were only a couple of inches away in the ruined building and then they had to pop outside. 2 full turns would have destoyed that unit and saved that flank. Grrrrrrrrrr...
I never took the engine to be used like you described (obvious since I FORGOT to use it haha) but you've deffinately given me ideas.jwg20 wrote:I actually know one lizardmen player who uses this as a foundation for his strategy. Basically, he has two blocks of 30 or so saurus to tie up units, places his engine of the gods between them, and detonates it turn after turn. Works great against any high armor opponent (which is actually the same stuff that can't be brought down by his 4 units of skink skirmishers and 2 charmelion units with their massed poison darts, so compliments his army well). Last tournament, he got two massacres against daemons and bretonnians, and one loss (to my HEs). Most impressive was how he handled bretonnians. Tabled by turn 4, helped in no small part by the engine. Something to consider.Mallas wrote: I'm still kicking myself about not activating Burning Ailment. Against low toughness models, it rips them to shreds. 2D6 STR4 hits per unit within 2D6 range and no armor saves allowed. Those White lions were only a couple of inches away in the ruined building and then they had to pop outside. 2 full turns would have destoyed that unit and saved that flank. Grrrrrrrrrr...
Otherwise, very entertaining game! I like your sacrifice of the archers and helms to tie up the combat block, Seredain. Good way to avoid a big unit is to give it something to kill and draw it away. Also, nice control to change strategy last minute with the saurus.
At Mallas, yeah the non-activation of the engine in the later turns really cost you the game. Detonating it probably would have killed his characters (can affect units in combat, and 2D6 S4 hits averages about 5 wounds actually, exactly enough to kill both characters, and Seredain doesn't have wards on his characters), and also would have killed the lions over a few turns as you said. Killing the general, BSB, lions, and saving your slann, TG, and stegadon would have given you a sizable win. Bet you won't forget it next time?
I have to disagree, unfortunately. The main thing is that you shouldn't take any models out of combat. In fact, the charge itself was done incorrectly in the first place, as the two characters didn't bother to maximise. This is the type of thing that so many people forget to do on overruns! From there, if the Slann challenged, if he was to move forwards, then he should have just done that, displacing the two models in front. I probably wouldn't have bothered, as he is meant to stay in the second rank. After that point, there's no need to move the two cavalrymen whatsoever, and so, in their more central position, this would have offered no room for the Spearmen to make it into the combat. The two characters being shifted to the side to make the perfect amount of space for the charge does not seem in keeping to the rules to me, and offered a HUGE, possibly gamewinning advantage to the High Elves.Here's that postcard:
In a Challenge you should try "if possible" to move the two challengers into base contact. If this is not possible given other rules, then you simply assume they are in contact (p. 102). You can't split up a combined unit (of characters and characters or character and rank n' file) during close combat as that is only possible during a Movement phase and no movement is permitted for units in CC. Combat reform requires that you maintain base contact with enemy, though you can move into contact with a different enemy model (p. 55). There's potentially some shirty uses of this to evade more attacks, but that really only makes tactical sense. You were right to keep Caradath and Seredain together. While the slann needn't have moved from the back rank (unless the front rank's frontage shrank to smaller than his), what you ended up doing looked commonsensical and offered no illegal advantage to either player.
Sorry to burst your bubble here, boys - burning alignment only does d6 hits. For the characters running in a pair, that isn't a big deal (if it was, the archmage would've been a darn slight closer to give some wounds back, believe me!). Also remember that it only has a 2d6 range and, on the first turn when Mal should've burned (dude... ), the characters were just over 5" away (so 6 rounding up)- not a sure-fire hit. In any event, if I recall correctly (Mal- you'll remember this), I think the ancient steg actually chose to put the shield up on turn 4, rather than forget to do anything (I remember the bolt thrower coming up against the ward save that turn when shooting the TG's). In the circumstances it was the wrong choice but it was, at least, a choice.jwg20 wrote:At Mallas, yeah the non-activation of the engine in the later turns really cost you the game. Detonating it probably would have killed his characters (can affect units in combat, and 2D6 S4 hits averages about 5 wounds actually, exactly enough to kill both characters, and Seredain doesn't have wards on his characters), and also would have killed the lions over a few turns as you said.Mallas wrote: I'm still kicking myself about not activating Burning Ailment. Against low toughness models, it rips them to shreds. 2D6 STR4 hits per unit within 2D6 range and no armor saves allowed. Those White lions were only a couple of inches away in the ruined building and then they had to pop outside. 2 full turns would have destoyed that unit and saved that flank. Grrrrrrrrrr...
Seredain gets 3 TG kills, Caradath gets 1 wound on Slann, plus standard: that's a victory of +5. Slann's testing on Ld 4. I'm taking it.Stormie wrote: The two characters being shifted to the side to make the perfect amount of space for the charge does not seem in keeping to the rules to me, and offered a HUGE, possibly gamewinning advantage to the High Elves.
I'd have liked to see if the two characters could have broken the Slann on their own- I think they'd have had a good chance to do so, instantly destroying him, personally!
jwg20 wrote:Otherwise, very entertaining game! I like your sacrifice of the archers and helms to tie up the combat block, Seredain. Good way to avoid a big unit is to give it something to kill and draw it away. Also, nice control to change strategy last minute with the saurus.
You've missed some tricks here Stormie. First, remember that, at no point in the game were the terradons able to fly over one of my units to drop rocks and land on the other side. If you go back and re-read the relevent bits (and look at the pictures), you'll see that I constantly kept that 20" landing zone filled with units along any path that allowed the terradons a flight move over any elves (especially the swordmasters). In the end, with my army closing in, Mallas thought he'd take a gamble drawing me out with the terradons and, given the circumstances, there are worse things he could've done with them.Stormie wrote:Very interesting report, it's so rare to see High Elves beat Lizardmen... but I guess if the Lizardmen player doesn't use some of his most powerful tricks, it becomes a lot easier. From the Terradons not bothering to drop their rocks before landing in front of the enemy...
This is true! On that basis though (since I was planning ahead with the spears), I simply could have maximised my characters on the left hand side to give my spears room to get in (with the stegadon dead, at least!). When the Slann challenges, then, he simply moves into contact with my BSB and the prince stays put. I'll remember this little scenario in future, though, for sure. Still at least the insane courage skink priest didn't totally ruin my day!Stormie wrote:I have to disagree, unfortunately. The main thing is that you shouldn't take any models out of combat. In fact, the charge itself was done incorrectly in the first place, as the two characters didn't bother to maximise. This is the type of thing that so many people forget to do on overruns!
Thank you, though not for want of trying! My magic this game was upsettingly poor compared with Mal's. Even with the Banner I only got Throne off once, Flesh off three or four times and Dwellers off once (failing to kill the Slann). That's five or six successful casts in the whole game. When the comet hit me and the irresistible T8 saurus nearly ended my game, I was a little demoralised, for sure!Stormie wrote:still, a good tactical win and none of this Dwellers rubbish killing characters wholesale
I see what you mean. The wording is a little convoluted.Stormie wrote: While you can move into contact with a different model during a combat reform, this is only half the story of what P55 actually says, you can't take a model out of combat, and if you shift a pair of models down the line, that is what happens, even if they are only rank and file troopers, unfortunately...
Thus, I take it that you're reading it as that you are anchored to the enemy model you're in initial base contact with, but pivoting on that anchor can bring you into contact with more models or different ones. More but never less.There is one special restriction on a combat reform, however - it cannot be used to get a model (friend or foe) out of base contact with the enemy if it was in contact before the reform was made. The model can be in base contact with a different enemy at the end of the reform if you wish.
No, I am sure it is 2D6 hits and I will check that when I get home today.Seredain wrote:Sorry to burst your bubble here, boys - burning alignment only does d6 hits.
Oh and I run so little TG because I am trying to run it as more of a command bunker/support unit. That is why it is deployed behind the bigger blocks.SpellArcher wrote:Yeah, very interesting game, especially the re-deployments.
Mallas, isn't 12 a little small for the TG unit protecting your Slann?