On Dwellers (2)
Leaving aside whether or not it
should exist, let us accept that it does and look again at the practicalities involved in defending yourself from this, and other, stat test uber-spells.
The great danger in telling yourself that something 'should never happen' in Warhammer is that you also tell yourself, in tandem, that there's nothing you can do about it and simply put, this is very rarely the case. To point out methods of avoiding this fate is not at all to 'miss the point'!
Remember that the most important part of any rule is not what it
might do when all goes right (be it range, enemy defence, lucky dice for you, unlucky dice for him), but how it
actually works within the game mechanic. Any spell has weaknesses, and you have no excuse for not taking advantage of them just because he might roll a double 6. Nighthawk45 made a lovely table, for another thread, on the chances of your mage being killed by a miscast. Below I've extracted his calculations in respect only of the chances of getting irresistible force.
# of Dice | Chance of Irresistible Force
2 . . . . . | 2.78%
3 . . . . . | 7.41%
4 . . . . . | 13.19%
5 . . . . . | 19.62%
6 . . . . . | 26.32%
So, your opponent is unlikely to get that double 6 when he needs it. If he doesn't get it, and you've allowed the spell to go off anyway, you bear a serious amount of responsibility for the 50/50 roll you're now taking to save your mage!
Dealing with the Inevitable
Assuming that your opponent has enough dice to cast it at all (not a given), there are 5 stages that have to be completed before you lose your magic phase to Dwellers Below:
1- your opponent has to want to actually cast it;
2- it has to be in range;
3- it has to be cast successfully;
4- you have to fail/be unable to dispel it;
5- you have to fail a strength test.
6- you have only one mage to save.
This is a long line of phases which have to go right for your opponent and, as a player, you are
always able to influence, if not always control, one or more of them. In brief, let's look at a few ways.
1 – Target Saturation
This is further to the earlier “don't build a beautiful target” paragraph which sets out a sensible principle to follow: if you want to discourage your enemy from melting your army with Dwellers, don't build a massive unit and fill it with characters! Very few people are going to turn down a chance to kill 2 or 3 characters
and half of a horde. When deploying your forces, bear this in mind.
It's not just about unit composition, though. When your opponent's magic phase comes around, what have you done to discourage him from casting Dwellers? Basically, you want to have put him under pressure to cast something else. If your opponent takes one look at your forces and decides that your own archmage is the only serious threat he's going to face next turn, then he's going straight for that Dwellers. If however, you have other deadly weapons looking to punish your enemy next turn- like a cavalry bus looking to charge- your opponent's mind may be forced to turn to defensive spells.
With my knights looking to charge, who is the greater threat, here: the life archmage or the cavalry prince?
2- Stay out of range! (2)
Covered
here already. It has been suggested that a mage with a 24” effective range would struggle to keep 24” away from his enemy. This isn't the case! You simply choose to cast spells against those targets which don't bring your character within accessible range of the Dwellers caster. In the last HE v HE game, my opponent's caster was carrying Folariath's Robe. This gave him far more options in the movement phase than my caster could manage, easily enough scope for keeping out of Dwellers range and having shots against my advancing units.
In the above you'll see that the enemy archmage is able to stay out of range of my caster but still have suitable targets for his own spells. My mage, liike most casters, can't afford to get into combat or wander outside of a unit for fear of getting shot or magic missiled. As a result, in the above example he's bound to sit with the archers. This limits his movement options and my opponent can use this information to stay out of range. You can measure everything in 8th Edition: make sure you do!
3 – Outside of the Annullian Crystal, there's not much you can do about this, I'll admit.
4 – Even if your opponent throws 6 dice, he's unlikely to get irresistible force. Have a scroll ready. No scroll, no dispel dice, no excuse!
5- Even after all of the above, there's still only a 50/50 chance of your mage dying. I don't like these odds, but neither does your opponent, really. This is why having a big unit around a caster can be influential over whether or not your opponent goes for him or not. Str 4 characters are usually safe unless they're in a big unit. If you can, run your characters independently if they can't get out of range of the spell- they become far less attractive targets.
6 – Not a point that many of us dwell on, since archmages carry so much influence in the modern game. It is a truth universally acknowledged that one archmage is better than two mages. Except, of course, that losing one of two mages is no way near as bad as losing your only caster. Lots of players take a back-up caster and Dwellers Below
et al is one more reason to do so.
Conclusion (2)
Ultimately, lots of things can happen in Warhammer that shouldn't. Cannonballs can always draw perfectly straight lines to their targets (something modern weapons can't always manage, let alone early-modern cannon!), and knock a character from his unit (as Tethlis pointed out on the 'Dwellers' thread, 3 cannon putting shot through a character have a 50% chance of forcing him to fail a
Look Out Sir! roll). A single stone from a cheap stone thrower may, contrary to the laws of physics, explode and hit up to 21 guys at the same time. A single goblin may hold his ground against a mighty dragon, even having lost his entire unit, if he rolls a double 1. When these things happen, they're annoying! Remember, though, that Warhammer is a game of averages. Sometimes the dice will screw you and sometimes they'll love you. In any case, every weapon in the game has its limits which you, as a player, should exploit.
underthepalm wrote:Dear Seredain! Thanks for the fantastic list!
Can you give any tactical advice to deal with modern "uberpower" DE list like:
Pegasus lord - Heavy armour, cloac, dragon helm, pendant of Khaeleth, crown of command, soulrender (GW + armour piercing) - 2+AS and pendant ward, 2+ fireward, stubborn, S6 with ap - this fellow can block my SH bus for easy - and even kill my lord
Supreme Sorceress 4lv shadow - seal of grond (+1 dd), sacrificial dagger (generates pd) - in the main battle phase this girl produce IF Mindrasor, plus other nastys Shadow lore has
Cauldron BSB - +1A to the most important combat, 5 ward to prevent ~ blackguard from shooting, and killing blow! to any unit to negate my rerolled armour saves
soceress 2 lv metal - scroll, ironcurce icon - good against my silver helms
24 corsair - 2weapons, fcg, frenzy banner
36 spearmen - fcg, shields, armour piercing banner
18 spearmen (SS here), FCG, banner of discipline
17 crossbowmen FCG, shields (metal s here)
2x5 harpies
20 black guard - fcg, firebanner
hydra
Not played with this fellow before, but he is skilled and the list is scary )
Hey Under,
The Crown of Command+Pendant Dreadlord (2)
I talked a bit about this dreadlord here:
The Crown of Command+Pendant Dreadlord. It's really important not to allow him a charge against your helm hammer. Ultimately, this dreadlord is most dangerous as a tarpit unit: he's beautifully designed for hitting and holding expensive hammers and deathstars. He's a pain, then, but he's also very expensive- and this is a crucial point. The trick to beating an army like this is to not allow this dreadlord to tarpit anything more expensive than him. That means you need to separate your characters from the silver helms if it looks like they might get charged by the dreadlord. As long as he's fighting something cheaper than he is, you're net up on points and his crown of command isn't ruining your battle plan.
As for the rest of the dark elf army, it doesn't have much ranged power. With your archers, repeater and heavy knights (searing doom notwithstanding), you should be able to put some hurt on it before the big fights. I think I'd get in there early with the fast units against his softest targets - where the mages are likely to sit. If I can keep the threat of arrows and bolts trained on the black guard, the dark elves are more likely to protect them with the ward than combat-buff the core troops. In any case, I think it best to go for the soft underbelly before hitting the powerful combat blocks. Your advantage in the ranged battle should help here.
Lastly, the position of the flaming banners is crucial. Your flaming unit, the white lions, are small enough to be deployed against the hydra and get on with their work. Your opponent has made a mistake in giving his most powerful block this flag, however. Any model with an anti-fire ward can nullify this unit! If your opponent is so keen to put the ward save on the BG's, then, be happy and shoot something else. When it comes to it, you can always give him a taste of his own 'character tarpit' medicine by shoving your BSB into their face and holding them up forever (and for far fewer points than the dreadlord).
Oh one last thing. If you can, get your archmage in range of his level 4 and cast Dwellers until she goes away.