Where the heck is everybody?

[Facade19]

What happened to you all? You know who you are that I am referring to. Are you alive?

[Shannar, Sealord]

Not all that many from the old days when offtopic was more active then any of the actual High Elf topics are around anymore sadly. It's to bad, we had some good discussions back in the day.

[Aerendar Valandil]

I'm here. Visit often, don't react that much though.

[Archmage_Mariona]

I suppose there are less high elf players around now than there used to be. Having said that fantasy is much less popular than it used to be (from what I can gather) since I started playing around 4 years ago I've seen less and less fantasy players :\ its really sad

[Shannar, Sealord]

I suppose there are less high elf players around now than there used to be. Having said that fantasy is much less popular than it used to be (from what I can gather) since I started playing around 4 years ago I've seen less and less fantasy players :\ its really sad

Well, most of the people in question here didn't play much/at all anymore even back in 2004 when we moved to this site.

[Archmage_Mariona]

Well if we stay optimistic and do our best we may be able to bring some life back to this forum?

[Senor]

more a lurker, then a poster.... sorry for that.

[RE.Lee]

Well the forum is as alive as ever. Its just the offtopic section that has gotten rather quiet ever since some of the more vocal posters got permanent bans

[Aerendar Valandil]

I quess there was some kind of chemistry back then. The right people at the right time at the right place, and indeed there were several posters who had not even a lot to do with highelves or even warhammer. Such things never last forever. The site is still very active, but its more about the game, with a slightly competitive streak. And I have the impression that the current mods are less lenient with both intense debate and politics (particularly in that combination).

Have you checked the Ulthuan Jacuzzi-thread?

[Shannar, Sealord]

I quess there was some kind of chemistry back then. The right people at the right time at the right place, and indeed there were several posters who had not even a lot to do with highelves or even warhammer. Such things never last forever. The site is still very active, but its more about the game, with a slightly competitive streak. And I have the impression that the current mods are less lenient with both intense debate and politics (particularly in that combination).

Have you checked the Ulthuan Jacuzzi-thread?

You are so very correct about that.

[Peepster1976]

I'm on this site for 2 years now, more a lurker than a poster.
To me this site is a every good source of information, and since i don't play that much as i want to its my way to learn about the game.
No need for other stuf........

[Shannar, Sealord]

I'm on this site for 2 years now, more a lurker than a poster.
To me this site is a every good source of information, and since i don't play that much as i want to its my way to learn about the game.
No need for other stuf........

No one is saying that's is not a very good site, or anything remotely like that. It's just not the same as it used to be, and sometimes some of us miss parts of the old days.

[Facade19]

This place used to be a haven for me, I swear! It would be always be such a pleasure when I visited the OT section of the forums. Vibrant discussions, incredible minds meeting and challenging one another, giving life to the unintelligible and giving meaning to the mundane. There were so many of us. So many beautiful voices amidst in a vast ocean of countless arrays of unique personalities.

And now? Silence.

This saddens me tremendously. Some of you who posted, such as Shannar for instance, know exactly what I am alluding to. It so poignant that the vast majority of my dear friends, yes friends, no longer exist. It is as if death has taken them away from me and I am left grieving, with no solace or closure available to overcome this devastating sorrow.

Ah...sigh.

What is left is just a reminder that all things in life are futile and temporal.

[Shannar, Sealord]

I disagreed often with a lot of the people on here. But, they were willing to discuss, defend and research their opinions. And allow anyone else who was willing to put in the effort to do the same. That's darn rare on the internet, even back then. And I dare say it's nearly nonexistent now.

[Aerendar Valandil]

@You both: I think it does have to do with a bit of nostalgia, I think. People move on, and views on places like this were you met like minds in a certain point in time are biased at least: probably there are people on this site now for whom it is the same creative and unique place it was for back then. As if you end up in the same pub where you and all you friends came a few years before. You haven been busy with other things, and even with the two or three you meet after all those years de conversation is not the same. It's past now. If you watch this table with a group of youngsters bantering and laughing as if there is no tomorrow, you realize with heartache you try to relive a past for a while, knowing that it will never come back - and that it has as much to do with you changing as with you all flying out to other places and different lives.

[Ruerl Khan]

I disagreed often with a lot of the people on here. But, they were willing to discuss, defend and research their opinions. And allow anyone else who was willing to put in the effort to do the same. That's darn rare on the internet, even back then. And I dare say it's nearly nonexistent now.

The "golden days" are not "gone" you simply have stopped discussing them here. And thats pretty much all there is to it. The "golden days" where not all "that" great either for that matter and you might be looking at them with the proverbial rose tinted glasses. I remember well how some of the years have been from the moderating point of view and as a simple example I can tell you that i've removed, edited, warned and banned more people from the off topic than any other forum combined. And thats with the note that I was doing this before we even had an off topic forum.

[Aerendar Valandil]

Well put.

I admit I simply do not have the time for long posts. Moving on, I guess.

[Peepster1976]

okay I bite....
AS I hear it, it sounds like "it used to be beter in the days gone by". And as an 37 yrs old gamer i understand that but its an age thing.
ANd regarding this site, the other probably done have the time/need any more to be active on a site; been there done that. A friend of mine was an active moderatir for an internatioal site, done it for 5 years. ANd that he quit, and went on doin other stuff
Times change...

On the other hand, how many new/youngster are there in your area. As I see it the mayority of WHFB is >25. And none is 12 <->20. So maybe we'll become a dying species.....
or is that too much WHFB is dying kind of talk and not constructive what so ever....

GRtzz

Peepster

[Facade19]

I disagree Ruerl, I honestly think that a certain spirit has left Ulthuan. We cannot possibly discuss similar matters as we did back then because the people that made the discussions are no longer around. We cannot revive or reenter discussion that resemble those of the "Golden Age" because we lack the people that procured those discussions. Maybe you did not like the results they flourished, and I do admit the moderators had to clean up alot of the language, but I am not lamenting the discussions themselves or the ideas that fluttered.

I am bemoaning the absence, the departure of those people that brought life to the OT. It is not an accident that the OT has completely perished in quality and quantity of posts and visits. I also contribute the demise of the Story Telling section of Ulthuan because those users that were here made the Story Telling section of the forums so much better. Sure, we have a growth of posters in the Story Telling section, but my goodness, it has come down to the same thing over and over. Occasionally you encounter a great narrative unlike others, but I just do not enjoy that section of Ulthuan anymore either. It has become rather dull and frustrating to be honest.

Now I want to tread carefully and not invite the modhammer on me, but could it possibly be that if you and the other loremasters had just ventured out a little and created a sub-thread in the OT that permitted a little bit more lenience on the language and restricted it to 18+ the creative outburst that existed here would have remained? Are you guys partly to be blamed for the death of this community?

Anyway, I apologize if this may be deemed offensive and Ruel you know that I am not one that seeks to stir adversarial relationships. But, at one point or another I just feel like that what made Ulthuan so special for me is gone and I am trying to articulate a reason as to not only why this occurred, but also as to the how it happened.

The newer users come here strictly for Warhammer and bless their souls for it. But, I am in the position that strictly limiting these forums to a gamer-centric corner of the intrawebs has robbed the years of developing this fantastic environment of a nascent quality that I honestly do not see here anymore. I post my stories or other useless musings in the hopes that someone from the old entourage will leave a comment or two so that I know that they are still alive.

But the overall point of this post was to just express my bewildering sentiments over the disappearance of my friends. Now, the question remains if they were indeed similar in their opinion of me, then why do they not leave a message or two around once in a while.

Anyhow, thank you for allowing me to express my frustrations.

[Shannar, Sealord]

I disagreed often with a lot of the people on here. But, they were willing to discuss, defend and research their opinions. And allow anyone else who was willing to put in the effort to do the same. That's darn rare on the internet, even back then. And I dare say it's nearly nonexistent now.

The "golden days" are not "gone" you simply have stopped discussing them here. And thats pretty much all there is to it. The "golden days" where not all "that" great either for that matter and you might be looking at them with the proverbial rose tinted glasses. I remember well how some of the years have been from the moderating point of view and as a simple example I can tell you that i've removed, edited, warned and banned more people from the off topic than any other forum combined. And thats with the note that I was doing this before we even had an off topic forum.

To an extent you are correct. And there were those who managed to get themselves in trouble in OT. But mostly they wanted to, or hadn't bothered to read the fairly (ok, very) lax rules.

But you've been around long enough to notice that there has been a culture shift on the site. It's probably good, as there is a lot more warhammer talked about now and it is after all a warhammer site. The current batch of mods are also quicker to jump in and warn people. I don't think they have to do it as often, but it tends to be on things that would have passed without comment in 2002. That's not necessary bad (it's probably good) but it is different.

As to "you've simply stopped discussing them here"- Isn't that exactly what we're saying? It was a group of people. Who have largely aged and moved on. I went to Basic, IAT, Ranger School did a tour in Afghanistan, then sapper school and when I came back very few of the old guard were around. By the time I got back from Iraq there was almost none, and I'm pretty sure all the active mods had turned over. Things change.

What seems to have happened is that some people think I'm saying that the site was "better" in the old days, or isn't good now. That's not the case. If anything it's a better warhammer site, which after all is the point. I'm simply saying that sometimes I miss parts of the old culture. I can tell you I don't miss the frequent server crashes, having someone else buy our domain name, and having to figure out what to type in the browser today to get here (well not here, as there was no here yet).

[Archmage_Mariona]

On the other hand, how many new/youngster are there in your area. As I see it the mayority of WHFB is >25. And none is 12 <->20. So maybe we'll become a dying species.....
or is that too much WHFB is dying kind of talk and not constructive what so ever....

GRtzz

Peepster

I actually turned 20 just last month and I've been into WHFB since I was 16 so there are some younger players but I do see most of the players around me either play 40K exclusively or are 25+ its sad because almost everyone who plays both prefers WHFB over WH40K but they switch to 40K mainly simply because they struggle to get a game otherwise :\

[Ruerl Khan]

I disagree Ruerl, I honestly think that a certain spirit has left Ulthuan. We cannot possibly discuss similar matters as we did back then because the people that made the discussions are no longer around. We cannot revive or reenter discussion that resemble those of the "Golden Age" because we lack the people that procured those discussions. Maybe you did not like the results they flourished, and I do admit the moderators had to clean up alot of the language, but I am not lamenting the discussions themselves or the ideas that fluttered.

I will call nonsense of that. All you need is people with strong opinions to form a proper debate. Example: "I think that there is a good argument to have a strong distinction between people who are attracted to children and people who molest children. The first group is suffering from a problem and should not be stigmatized. The second group is criminals and should be treated as such."

There, i've just said that not all pedophiles per definition are bad, simply by creating a distinction between acting and thinking. Thats a pretty volatile topic right there and it is about discussing punishment, how free thoughts might be and it is generally an discussion about ethics.

You want the discussions? Find something that you have a passion for, and discuss it. But seeing that this is a warhammer forum, thats where most of us share a passion.

I am bemoaning the absence, the departure of those people that brought life to the OT. It is not an accident that the OT has completely perished in quality and quantity of posts and visits. I also contribute the demise of the Story Telling section of Ulthuan because those users that were here made the Story Telling section of the forums so much better. Sure, we have a growth of posters in the Story Telling section, but my goodness, it has come down to the same thing over and over. Occasionally you encounter a great narrative unlike others, but I just do not enjoy that section of Ulthuan anymore either. It has become rather dull and frustrating to be honest.

A forum lives and dies by its posters. And be careful that your not thinking about these with rose tinted glasses. I've held a few scrivners contests myself, and frankly? The stories have had a few pearls amongst them, but its generally never been all that great. Fanfic very seldom is.

Now I want to tread carefully and not invite the modhammer on me, but could it possibly be that if you and the other loremasters had just ventured out a little and created a sub-thread in the OT that permitted a little bit more lenience on the language and restricted it to 18+ the creative outburst that existed here would have remained? Are you guys partly to be blamed for the death of this community?

You dare?! You dare disagree with me? I am afraid that I will have to... accept that, just as I always did. I never had a problem with an opinion wich differed from my own. If someone is willing to argue in the excess I may call them out on it and say its a foolish notion they have and that they seem uneducated on certain aspects of modern society (as I frequently did to certain people) but i've never banned anyone for it.
Those people who have been banned and those people who have been moderated?

Well, you are not privy to the discussions we have behind closed doors, and I cannot really reveal much (that is not my place) but I can tell you that no single member on this site has ever been banned without an internal discussion. And every single poster who has been banned has been warned. Repeately. Let me give you an example of one of the "glory" posters that you miss did: posted a picture of a torn anus in the offtopic.

Sorry, this is not a porn site. And even if it was, that is something that will disgust 99.9% of our posters. Its also vastly over PG13 (we do have minors here, and I do take the whole protecting minors pretty seriously). That was the "strike three" was a permanent ban. (That they then tried to circumvent, but we have means of finding out, so they got rebanned by me, repeately). Then the site crashed, Taavati stepped back as host and said poster returned in the new forum. However, this was a year later and they learned their lesson. And it was a form of "new start" for everyone.

Then we had people who called each other for "gay" (wich is an insult to homosexuals more than the poster its directed at) and just a term thats offensive overall. No, I don't care of people think its a "good social norm" where they are from. This is not there, this is here. And here we actually have a policy about not judging people for things wich just is a part of who they are. I'm not judging anyone for being a caucasian, black or even british either.

In short: Every single ban have been for a very solid reason. So when they finally got earned they where simply not up for discussion anymore. (and the system I used personally was this: Warning, if it happens again in seven days: Another warning. If it happens again after this, a one day ban as a cool off period. If this does not work. A warning and then a month. If this does not work, a final warning. And then its out. Permanently).

Anyway, I apologize if this may be deemed offensive and Ruel you know that I am not one that seeks to stir adversarial relationships. But, at one point or another I just feel like that what made Ulthuan so special for me is gone and I am trying to articulate a reason as to not only why this occurred, but also as to the how it happened.

I cannot see anything in your post thats offensive at all. If anything, this might be creating one of the discussions that your longing after. Even if we're discussing the topic of rose tinted glasses.

Again, I can only reiterate: If you miss something in discussions, then discuss! And this is not the first, second or even tenth "lull" of activity i've seen. I started frequenting ulthuan when I went out of tenth grade and just before I started gymnasium. That was back in 1998 or 1999. Back then the forum was only a single board, the newest posts ontop (much like a chatroom works, just reverse). And you had to write the poster name you wanted to have each time you posted. Then we shifted to a form of Phb board, I remember being annoyed and frustrated when I learned that someone had taken my login name. Turns out it was Taavati then who wanted me to be his first moderator. So he had reserved my name for me already. And set me up with a password (that I still use for this site and this site only). But then, one of the reasons for us changing to this forum style back in 2000 was that we had people impersonating others, me in particular (since I was one of the only dark elf players around back then - also, believe it or not, but some of the posters I met back then are still on this board today 14 years later).

Anyway, putting aside my "ulthuan is actually a pretty old site" message for a moment the point I want to make is this: There will always be up and down periods. And it has always been up to our posters to be the difference they want to have. The moderators are only there to do that: Moderate discussions, they are not to stop them, stiffle them or control them. Only to stop flamewars.

All of the above is of course from my own view, I am not a loremaster these days after all

Regards
Ruerl Khan

p.s.
Burn Ulthuan. (a signature I used since 2000, anyone else using it is copycats ).

[Facade19]

Ruel, I respect your opinion and appreciate the clarification you have provided. You offered some food for thought that I had not considered and definitely buttresses your point of view. I think you have clearly argued your position well and I am momentarily in no need nor desire to emphasize the differences further as I think that you are clearly privy to salient matters that I am not, should not be and most likely would not want to be. Overall, the import of this thread has shown me that we could indeed engage and create one of those beloved threads, no question about it, especially since those who posted try to remain within the perimeter of the profane.

But, I still hold dear to my original contention that those people that used to post made this place for me more enjoyable. But, I will leave this be.

[grantmepower]

I started frequenting ulthuan when I went out of tenth grade and just before I started gymnasium. That was back in 1998 or 1999. Back then the forum was only a single board, the newest posts ontop (much like a chatroom works, just reverse).

Wait, the internet existed in 1998?
I must say, I miss the silliness of Lethalis's post count being stuck at 666.

[Prince of Spires]

As one of the current moderators, I must say I am a bit surprised at the comments that the site is being overmoderated and thereby stiffling discussions. When I look at the amount of moderating that is being done, there is actually very little of it happening (except for bot-removal). Over the past months, most moderating has been in rumour threads of mainly the HE and DE books where people posted pictures, points costs and rules.

Yes, foul language will get edited out when I see it. But that sort of thing usually gets no more then a brief mention to the poster. Often not even a virtual slap on the wrist, unless a poster repeatedly does so or uses especially bad language. But then, we're an all age, international forum. And what's normal language to one person can end up very offensive to the next.

There have been some heated arguments where I or one of the other mods stepped in. But those occasions are always the result of people starting namecalling, flaming or trolling. But that sort of thing is in allmost all cases not constructive to a good discussion. Rather the opposite. But in the time I've been a moderator (a little under a year), I think a grand total of 1 ban and 1 warning to another user has been issued. And those were well deserved. So not realy any heavy moderating going on.

Then again, I'm open to critique and only human after all. So if people feel that the moderating style and limits are not correct, I'm open to suggestions and a discussion about them.

As for the relative quiet in the off topic section, I think there is a few reasons for it. On is that the people have changed. Since I started (about 5 years ago) on the forum the active posters changed. New faces appeared and old ones disappeared. One result is that, since people don't know each other well, they tend to stick to "safe" topics and topics that fit their reason for comming here, i.e. warhammer. A bit like when you're in a pub with people you don't know. You'll discuss the weather, girls walking past and football. You'll probably stay away from deap philosofical ones or touchy subjects (unless drunk ofcourse). Once you get to know people, discussion changes to more personal stuff.

Another reason is that there hasn't been something like a site-wide campaign. This sort of event makes people spend time together, which lets you get to know people (and as per above, give more discussions). It also creates a sense of comradeship and turns a group of posters into a community. It also gives room for the creation of fan-fiction (since you have a story happening on the forum and you tie into that). And it offers a lot of roleplaying opportunities. And this creates activity in those forums as well.

Rod

[Shannar, Sealord]

Don't take what I said as meaning that the site is over moderated. It's just differently moderated. Warnings and edits often come for things that are in a grey area, rather then only things that clearly cross the line. Were I in your shoes I'd try for the same thing. If you put a stop to things early it's much easier then trying to reign them in later.

As to the rest of it. I fully agree on the changing of members contributed heavily to that (again, I think that was what he was trying to say right from the start). As to any of it being due to lack of a campaign or the such- can't say I fully agree there. Those particular areas were quite busy before we had campaigns. I do think having them might help a bit though.

[Facade19]

I never intended this to be a sort of criticism against the moderators at all. I think as a community we were (and are) lucky with the moderators we have. I genuinely like each and everyone.

I guess my point for raising this thread was to highlight how much I miss not only the old spirit of this community, but also that I miss each and every individual, even the ones that I tended not to be much fond of. The world is a shitty place (sorry for my blunt English). My mind is even a worse blotch of hell. The OT community was honestly therapy for me and each member from the by gone age has been important in me trying to make sense of my mental instabilities. I was able to put irony aside and not mask my face and just let true emotion and warmth penetrate those deep rooted layers of despair.

It just feels empty here, and with here I mean not only the physical ulthuan OT forum, but also here in my own heart and mind.

[Spartan]

I pop in every now and again to check up on OT. Unfortunately I think that the confluence of people that made this site so special was a unique phenomenon we may not see again...at least with those same people. We're all at different places in our lives, and I doubt most of us even have the time to hang around forums these days.

It's the next generation's turn to create their own community...

[Falahk]

ulthuan is like the mafia, you can never leave

[daid13]

How long has that quotes been around for?