So. Let's discuss the state of modern capitalism.

[Ashnari Doomsong]

Gather 'round children, this is gonna be fun!

I'm sure you've all heard of the regrettable excesses of such companies as United Fruit Company with their penchant for overthrowing anti-business democracies and replacing them with military dictatorships, the Free State of Congo with its charming quirk of basing a currency on human hands and the positively delightful I.G. Farben, an industrial giant which found new and very inventive ways to kill off pesky undesirables.

These things are a thing of the past, you may think. Not so. One of those aforementioned companies, United Fruit, actually still operates today under the name of "Chiquita bananas". They're still the same shady bunch, though their skills in staging bloody coups have admittedly gone somewhat rusty. I will, in this thread, take a quick look at one major company each day until I get bored of it. Then someone else can take over if they want. Hell, if someone else wants to contribute, feel free! There is no monopoly on the horror of certain corporate entities.

Let us start, then, with De Beers, a South African diamond company whose cartoonish evil is pretty well documented.

De Beers started out as a pet project of one Cecil Rhodes, a staunch arsehole believer in the right, nay, duty of the White Man to bring civilisation to the subhuman natives. Rhodes himself could be worth a series of posts, but let's keep this to his company. De Beers has, quite systematically, undermined workers' rights and, well, just watch the documentary Blood Diamonds because I seriously doubt I'll be able to make the same impression on you as that will. While not entirely unbiased, it still does a pretty decent job at illustrating just how awful these guys are. They fund rebels to keep countries unstable so they can go in and exploit the shit out of the place with what amounts to slave labour. Seriously, watch it. Then remember that in its heyday, De Beers controlled ninety percent of the world's diamond production, and is therefore directly responsible for all the nasty stuff that's happened in relation to said industry.

Coming up next: The Monsanto Company - Destroying Mother Earth for Fun and Profit!

[Prince Eldarion]

Keep it coming Ashnari, all information is better than being blind ignorant, mindlessly believing anything that the government/media tells us.

[Ashnari Doomsong]

Keep it coming Ashnari, all information is better than being blind ignorant, mindlessly believing anything that the government/media tells us.

Where do you think I've got my information, if not the media? It, like the USA, can be depended upon to do the right thing - once it has exhausted all other options.

[Prince Eldarion]

Keep it coming Ashnari, all information is better than being blind ignorant, mindlessly believing anything that the government/media tells us.

Where do you think I've got my information, if not the media? It, like the USA, can be depended upon to do the right thing - once it has exhausted all other options.

Yeah sorry. Al-jazerra's pretty good. But I've seen that Bill O'Reilly on Fox news....I rely more on internet these days..

Edit: Oh wait, Fox news all together. Pure poo.

[VictorK]

Wasn't this a Something Awful Comedy Goldmine?

[Raukov]

Wasn't this a Something Awful Comedy Goldmine?

It was an LF thread long before it was a frontpage goldmine, though I'm rather glad to see it there - a lot more people will read it there than they ever would've in LF.

[Ashnari Doomsong]

Wasn't this a Something Awful Comedy Goldmine?

Basically, yes. I took the idea and quite a bit of information from that thread because I thought that this would be an interesting addition to the Ulthuan.net Off-Topic forum. I'll have the Monsanto article up in the afternoon, ladies and gents.

[The Ogrob Returns]

If you're a fan of marxist theory, the current economic crisis should be pretty fitting for a case study of overconsumption (sp?) crisis theory.

There's also a lot to be said for exploitation theories and chinese factories and so on.

[Galengalad]

That's what I've got from my colleague from Poland:

"Owners of capital will stimulate working class to buy more and more of expensive goods, houses and technology, pushing them to take more and more expensive credits, until their debt becomes unbearable. The unpaid debt will lead to bankruptcy of banks, which will have to be nationalized, and State will have to take the road which will eventually lead to communism."

Karl Marx, 1867

[Musashi]

That will only happen if the current power brokers can figure out a way to infiltrate the proposed new seats of power.

[VictorK]

"Owners of capital will stimulate working class to buy more and more of expensive goods, houses and technology, pushing them to take more and more expensive credits, until their debt becomes unbearable. The unpaid debt will lead to bankruptcy of banks, which will have to be nationalized, and State will have to take the road which will eventually lead to communism."

Karl Marx, 1867

Beware quotes that sound too good to be true. It's almost certain that this is a fake.

http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/arc ... x_marx.php

[Ashnari Doomsong]

The Monsanto Company

But Ashnari, you might say, the Monsanto Company helps people grow *food*, right? They can't be so bad.

Well, here's the deal: Not only does the M company help people grow food, they also help people become entirely dependent upon them for crops. Now, they have been up to some pretty shady business in the whole business department, basically hiring the mob to go and bust some kneecaps in the most extreme cases. No, the main evil of Monsanto is their truly reprehensible impact on the enviroment. When I say "the environment", I mean on a global scale because Monsanto is *everywhere*. In fact, they're so entrenched all over the world that you shouldn't be too sure they haven't bribed your local representative whether you live in Petropavlovsk, Russia, Nis, Serbia or Bumfuck, Alabama, The USA.

So, what exactly is it that they do which is bad for the environment? Some of you may have heard of Agent Orange. For those who haven't, it's basically a chemical weapon used by the USA during the Vietnam war, which destroys foliage and has the side-effect of causing cancer in anybody even close to it at alarming rates - as if simply being hideously corrupt, destroying nature and employing Indian child labour wasn't enough, these gentlemen decided to take up war profiteering. War profiteering which, of course, had to actually be harmful for all sides on a rather permanent basis for proper moustache-twirling villany.

I could go on, and mention their using Indian farmers as test subjects, dumping huge amounts of PCB-containing waste in Wales of all places, making seeds that are actually sterile and need to be repurchased every time and trying to ban advertising for dairy products *not* using their Bovine Growth Hormone, but I like to think that you are all getting the picture.

Monsanto's blatant, in-your-face meanness can be found as far to the surface as Wikipedia. Seriously, they're not *nice*.

Coming up next: EDIT: Actually, let's not do Nestlé yet. Let's run with Smithfield Foods. They're... interesting.

[Gondarion]

My keyboard is killing my fingers, I need a new one before I can type an actual post, I'll sum up my stance quickly.

Adam Smith and Karl Marx are dead. We need new economic theories. I've been thinking of this a good deal lately.

[Prince Eldarion]

My keyboard is killing my fingers, I need a new one before I can type an actual post, I'll sum up my stance quickly.

Adam Smith and Karl Marx are dead. We need new economic theories. I've been thinking of this a good deal lately.

Read books by Fred Harrisson, he has some interesting theories.

[geoguswrek]

My keyboard is killing my fingers, I need a new one before I can type an actual post, I'll sum up my stance quickly.

Adam Smith and Karl Marx are dead. We need new economic theories. I've been thinking of this a good deal lately.

Actually adam smith is alive, he teaches A-Level economics at my old school. (i know, coincidence right? same name, same area of expertise but its a true story)

[Arhain]

The Monsanto Company

But Ashnari, you might say, the Monsanto Company helps people grow *food*, right? They can't be so bad.

Well, here's the deal: Not only does the M company help people grow food, they also help people become entirely dependent upon them for crops. Now, they have been up to some pretty shady business in the whole business department, basically hiring the mob to go and bust some kneecaps in the most extreme cases. No, the main evil of Monsanto is their truly reprehensible impact on the enviroment. When I say "the environment", I mean on a global scale because Monsanto is *everywhere*. In fact, they're so entrenched all over the world that you shouldn't be too sure they haven't bribed your local representative whether you live in Petropavlovsk, Russia, Nis, Serbia or Bumfuck, Alabama, The USA.

So, what exactly is it that they do which is bad for the environment? Some of you may have heard of Agent Orange. For those who haven't, it's basically a chemical weapon used by the USA during the Vietnam war, which destroys foliage and has the side-effect of causing cancer in anybody even close to it at alarming rates - as if simply being hideously corrupt, destroying nature and employing Indian child labour wasn't enough, these gentlemen decided to take up war profiteering. War profiteering which, of course, had to actually be harmful for all sides on a rather permanent basis for proper moustache-twirling villany.

I could go on, and mention their using Indian farmers as test subjects, dumping huge amounts of PCB-containing waste in Wales of all places, making seeds that are actually sterile and need to be repurchased every time and trying to ban advertising for dairy products *not* using their Bovine Growth Hormone, but I like to think that you are all getting the picture.

Monsanto's blatant, in-your-face meanness can be found as far to the surface as Wikipedia. Seriously, they're not *nice*.

Coming up next: EDIT: Actually, let's not do Nestlé yet. Let's run with Smithfield Foods. They're... interesting.

See any good college documentaries lately? This monsanto bit reminded me of English 400. Monsanto was also ahead of genetic mutation and the rights to said genetically engineered crops. Even after after cross pollination.

[DeMysteriis]

The original thread is here. It makes me hate the world.

[Ashnari Doomsong]

Bummer. Now you're making me redundant by posting my sources, you mean persons. Ah, well, I guess I'll have to skip the companies mentioned in that thread and go for some of the less evil/less well known ones. I could go for an example close to home, Telenor, or I could have a good look at the Saudi Aramco, the Saudi Arabian oil company and biggest of its kind in the world. What do people want?

[The Ogrob Returns]

My keyboard is killing my fingers, I need a new one before I can type an actual post, I'll sum up my stance quickly.

Adam Smith and Karl Marx are dead. We need new economic theories. I've been thinking of this a good deal lately.

As long as Marx still accurately describes modern situations, he'll be relevant.

Anyway, look up John Maynard Keynes for some other interesting insight. He's dead as well, but more recent.

[Ruerl Khan]

My keyboard is killing my fingers, I need a new one before I can type an actual post, I'll sum up my stance quickly.

Adam Smith and Karl Marx are dead. We need new economic theories. I've been thinking of this a good deal lately.

As long as Marx still accurately describes modern situations, he'll be relevant.

Anyway, look up John Maynard Keynes for some other interesting insight. He's dead as well, but more recent.

But does he describe modern situations accuratedly? Thats an alltogether different question. I believe he is very important to understanding the social developments in europe, especially with a focus on the change from what was to what is, but I am not so sure that he's usefull in the terms of describing modern situations.

All in all I find that the greatest flaw about Marx, is'nt Marx at all, but the way he is used, "Das Capital" is often cited by raredly read even by those who claim to cite from it.

Then again, i've only read the communistic manifest, so I might be wrong in my Marx.

[The Ogrob Returns]

Studied a bit of Marx earlier, but not read either of his works.

But I have teachers who claim that Communist Manifest is basicaly no good, it's more or less a propagande pamphlet. Das Capital supposedly has the good stuff. That is where he really presents his arguments and findings and so on.

[Galengalad]

But I have teachers who claim that Communist Manifest is basicaly no good, it's more or less a propagande pamphlet. Das Capital supposedly has the good stuff. That is where he really presents his arguments and findings and so on.

Manifest is indeed a proclamation, written when Europe was on fire. in 1848 it was easier to beleive in these ideas.
Capital is analysys of "modern" capitalysm and attempt to predict some tendencies.

[Allerion]

lets not forget the horrible favorite of republicans, "trickle-down economics"

[Raukov]

[Ashnari Doomsong]

Jesus guys, pick a company out of the two alternatives. Who do you want to hate, Norwegian telecoms people or Saudi oil sheikhs?

[Allerion]

Jesus guys, pick a company out of the two alternatives. Who do you want to hate, Norwegian telecoms people or Saudi oil sheikhs?

the american government? oh, not an option...

of those options... neither. gas prices are back to ok because we americans stopped buying stupid crap from china, so chinas demand for oil to support their factories went down. yeay.

frankly, i have no idea what the norwegian telecom people did/have done, and i dont think it has effected me too much (ducks since angry posts about what bastards they are sure to come)

[Ashnari Doomsong]

Jesus guys, pick a company out of the two alternatives. Who do you want to hate, Norwegian telecoms people or Saudi oil sheikhs?

the american government? oh, not an option...

of those options... neither. gas prices are back to ok because we americans stopped buying stupid crap from china, so chinas demand for oil to support their factories went down. yeay.

frankly, i have no idea what the norwegian telecom people did/have done, and i dont think it has effected me too much (ducks since angry posts about what bastards they are sure to come)

Du må ikke tåle så inderlig vel
den urett som ikke rammer deg selv!

It not influencing you directly doesn't mean that it's not completely awful and that you shouldn't seek out the information, if only for a show of solidarity with those whom it *does* influence directly.

[Ashnari Doomsong]

So, owing to a disappointing lack of zeal from the U.net proletariat, I am forced to make the decision in an autocratic and stalinist fashion. Or Pokémon fashion, I guess. Telenor, I choose you!

Now, Telenor isn't *quite* as vicious as, say, the Monsanto Company or Exxonmobile, Coca-cola or even Elf(though Elf doesn't exist anymore, being blatantly corrupt as well as evil). However, even relatively minor companies such as Telenor are more than capable of being remarkably dogged, if unimaginative, misdoers.

So, let's start up with some basic information. Telenor is a telecom company in which the Norwegian state has a considerable ownership share (52 percent, unless I misremember) - indeed, it even started out as a state monopoly before it became privatised. So, hey! It's a cornerstone of the social democracy, which is good right? Now let's have a look at their business practices.

So Telenor! Ah, Telenor. Where to begin? Oh yes. You see, Telenor was in a gentleman's agreement with a gentleman called Mohammed Yunus, the Bangladeshi Nobel Peace laurelate of 2006 - according to Yunus anyway - to sell him their shares in the Bangladeshi telecom company Grameen phone. Realising that this would remove a lot of their lovely Bangladeshi profits, however, they said "fuck off", indirectly damaging Yunus' other company's, Grameen Bank's, ability to perform their microloans service for which our Bangladeshi friend recieved the Nobel Prize in the first place.

They are also into the whole "enslave third-world children and make them work in hazardous conditions" business, but that's so common among multinational corporations that it hardly warrants mentioning. Telenor's shining example demonstrates that once a company launches away from retribution, even if it's dominated by the state, it becomes a hideous monster.

Next up is... I dunno, really. I'm taking suggestions, but if nobody's found anything by tomorrow I'll just pick some random company and dig up a little dirt.

[Prince Eldarion]

How about Nestle?

[Galengalad]

I'm working for a company that is selling equipment for practically all industrial markets, I've visited dozens of big and small companies, belonging to multinational corps or just to local owners.

All of them - I'm quite sure of that - have their own skeleton in the wardrobe, and sometimes the skelly is sitting right beside your at the dinner table. Nobody will spend any money on ecology just bcs he loves the nature. The driving force is always the profit, or loss of the profit (i.e if environmental fees are too high).

We consume many substances that are very, VERY unhealthy, just bcs. they make the products look good, or help their shelf life.
Take any bottle of Coca, Pepsi, or related stuff. Check the composition. Find sodium benzoate.- it is widely used as conservant. I've been at a plant that makes the stuff - they take benzene, add it to sodium hydroxide and then dry the mixture. Now the stuff that is made from 2 poisonous substances can't be healthy, right?
well...they say that they use very small quantities.....but imagine if you're drinking a lot of this stuff regularly.