Ulthuan
http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/

Noob + 1650 pts Tournament
http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=68709		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Maturin [ Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:15 am ]
Post subject:  Noob + 1650 pts Tournament
Hello everybody. I've been lurking around for some time, looking at all the very interesting posts and here I come hoping you could help me.

So, I started to play WFB with High Elves this year, played 4/5 games using my figs as proxies (Ellyrians reavers for Silver helms for ex) and I'll be attending a local tournament at the beginning of May.

I'd like, if possible, to hear your thoughts on what could be best with what I already have, since I have no money to buy stuff and tourney is WYSIWYG,no named characters and End of times Lords/Hero points allocation.

So here is what I have :

Assembled figurines :

2 Island of Blood hero on Griffin. (Played 1 at each of my games as noble, and 1 time as Eltharion)
3 Island of Blood mage. (played 1 of them as archmage lvl 4 for all of my games)
1 Hero on barded steel.
1 Hero with halberd.

15 Ellyrian reavers, 3 champ
20 Lothern Sea Guards, FMC*2
20 Swordmasters of Hoeth, FMC*2

To be built :

10 Phoenix guards (they're a pain in the a** to assemble :D )
36 archers
Either 20 spearmen or 20 LSG
1 bolt thrower
1 White lion Chariot/Tiranoc
10 Dragon princes
1 Noble/BSB box.


There will be at least 1 dwarf player and 1 demon of chaos player. Unknown for the rest :).
I'm pretty sure I'll face at least 1 empire also.

What would you play and why ?
Author:  Maturin [ Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Noob + 1650 pts Tournament
In my previous games, I proxied my 20 Sword Masters as Phoenix guards and my 20 LSG as archers and I enjoyed it. But I won't be able to proxy for the tournament.

So here is what I was thinking about :

Anointed of Asuryan
Lvl 4 High magic archmage + book of Hoeth
Bsb with shield and dragon armour.

The three of them goes into a 40 lancers regiment. Anointed give them all 6++/immune to psychology and archmage make it go below, hoping 3++.
1 unit of 5 Elyrian reavers.

2 units of 1 rank and 7 wide Sword masters of Hoeth.
1 unit of 5 Dragon Princes, Full Command + Razor Standard.
1 Repeater Bolt Thrower
1 Lion Chariot of Thrace.

That's 1633 points.

The problem I see is No banner of world dragon, Anoynted and Bsb under stuffed, no shots except the RBT.

What's your take ?
Author:  Loriel [ Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Noob + 1650 pts Tournament
From the first post:

Maturin wrote:
There will be at least 1 dwarf player and 1 demon of chaos player. Unknown for the rest .
I'm pretty sure I'll face at least 1 empire also.


Not much to choose from if you are forced to have WYSIWYG ;)

From your collection 10 dragon princes full command and 2 x 5 speared reavers would be for me in every game.
Level 4 archmage Book of Hoeth with probably lore of shadow (really universal lore that has good synergy with elves.)

From the second post:

I would personally leave BSB home in such low point game and give annointed ogre blade to get high str attacks to the unit which he resides.

Maturin wrote:
The three of them goes into a 40 lancers regiment. Anointed give them all 6++/immune to psychology and archmage make it go below, hoping 3++.


Do you mean spearmen bunker of 40 strong? or ... well probably not that many horsemen ;) is the number 40 mistake? I like using shield of saphery to boost units also, but I would suggest that it would be much more worth with elite infantry such as swordmasters / whitelions. If this is indeed 40 x spearmen they become just excellent tarpit anvil.

Secondly when you plan using High magic to get ward saves the way you are now doing with 2 characters (on 5 wide formation with full command) will make your mage relatively safe. But fencers blades are actually really really good way to get much needed protection for the mage. It will make most trash hitting him 5+ and rest on 4+. Another cheap way to give him extra protection is Crown of Atrazar.

[/quote]
Maturin wrote:
1 Lion Chariot of Thrace.


I haven't never learned how to use chariots so that they can reliably be worth the point investments. On a side note this chariot provides higher str attacks that you will going to need when your dragon princes stop having momentum.

[quote="Maturin"]The problem I see is No banner of world dragon, Anoynted and Bsb under stuffed, no shots except the RBT.

Banner of the World dragon isn't mandatory for us, but it sure can help a lot. Best used in bigger elite units such as swordmasters / white lions / dragon princes. Secondly I don't know what kind of tournament you are entering but if it has some kind of Comp score system banner of the world dragon tends to get tons of hatred in those settings ;)

I don't personally see shooting to be particular important. Are you going to have reavers with only spears? We excel at close combats and in close combats our fragile troops are safe from enemy fire.
Author:  Maturin [ Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Noob + 1650 pts Tournament
Hey Loriel, thanks for your reply.

Yeah I was talking about 40 man strong spearmen regiment. My bad I forgot that lancers in english means cavalry ^^. Lanciers in my language means spearmen :D.
I can build 20 spearmen and put the 20 LSG I have inside that block I think it should be ok even if WYSIWYG since they look alike.

The Elyrian reavers I have do have spears and bows actually, since they're coming from the IOB boxed set.

No comp system in the tourney, just no named characters and WYSIWYG.

You think that Shadow is more interesting than having a high ward save with High magic ? Or Maybe should I go with lvl4 life archmage with a 5++ regeneration and take a prince or noble to bodyguard the mage ?
Author:  Loriel [ Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Noob + 1650 pts Tournament
I have used high magic almost in every game I have played and most of time with 25 - 30 strong White Lion unit. For smaller units the benefit becomes less obvious and for spearmen as said they becomes just "unbreakable" brick wall that is hard to remove, but have trouble removing anything that attacks them. High magic it self doesn't cause major impact on game, (save extremely good use of Walk between the worlds can turn battle from lost to victory). I have done battle reports from my ten last High Elven game so if you like to see how I use high magic check out (in the game 80 I used first time dragon princes ;) ) Here is link to my blog viewtopic.php?f=76&t=67296 . there is summary in the first post and separate link for each report.

For cavalry heavy / spearmen blocks shadow have more merit. Okkams mind razor is obvious winner spell for spearmen. Having high volume of str 8 - 10 attacks is just pure fun ;) Wither and enfeeble foe is something that our elves love and especially when our str 3 troops have hard time fighting any t4 or more models wither can turn the tide easily. Miasma is in my opinion the best spell in the game for numerous reasons. Main reason is that I would dare to say that there is not a game nor opponent where miasma couldn't be used to turn battle that is likely to end up as draw to victory and miasma has function both in early, middle and late game.

Life is also excellent choice for us. +2 Toughness is efectively better than high magics increased ward save and 5+ (or 4+ regeneration is obviously good choice). And never underestime the value of regained wounds from the lore attribute. That can mean save of 300 points character from dying just when it regained single wound.
Author:  Maturin [ Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Noob + 1650 pts Tournament
Thansk for the heads up, I'll check your battle reports :)
Author:  Maturin [ Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Noob + 1650 pts Tournament
If I go with the lore of life, then I could drop the anoynted and take a noble on an enhanced griffin with armour of destiny.


Lvl 4 life magic archmage + book of Hoeth + ring of Khaine to boost the regeneration save to 4+ 300 points
Noble on Griffin, Shield, Cavalry lance, Armour of destiny, Enhanced griffin 327 points

40 spearmen regiment. 4+ Regeneration thanks to Archmage 360 points
1 unit of 5 Elyrian reavers, bows and lance 95 points

1 unit of 10 Dragon Princes, Full Command + banner of World Dragon 370 points
1 Repeater Bolt Thrower 70 points
1 Lion Chariot of Thrace. 120 points

Total 1642 points.

Archmage puts regen on the spearmen, boost it with the ring of khaine, boost the griffin and the noble's stamina by +4 (I hope).

Tadaaaaa. Lots of bodies for tarpitting, possible to raise them back from the dead if I get the spell.

What do you think ? I like the model of the noble on griffin, but I could also take something else instead. Maybe another mage or why not the Hoeth LoremasteR.
Author:  Loriel [ Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Noob + 1650 pts Tournament
Maturin wrote:
ring of Khaine to boost the regeneration save to 4+


doesn't work. regeneration isn't ward save. ;) but with throne of vines you get 4+ regeneration ;)

Maturin wrote:
Noble on Griffin, Shield, Cavalry lance, Armour of destiny, Enhanced griffin 327 points


too bad griffons are rather easy to kill by pretty much anything due lack of armor and only toughness 5. this is sad especially when IoB offers neat griffon! in competetive sense you would probably be better off with horse. especially when you are facing dwarfs it is almost impossible to think that he wouldn't take any cannons and with daemons any "hardcore" gamer fields skull cannons :(

I would say that if you take this choice you should try to make it to safety of close combat as soon as possible.

I have personally grown fond of noble on great eagle for two reason. Firstly 50 points isn't that much to be payed for it and because Great eagle as a mount count as monsterous cavalry (as griffon is ridden monster) you get +1 toughness and +1 wounds to the noble and the actual model would be slightly smaller so it would be easier to hide behind buildings etc. I usually kit the eagle noble with charmed shield (to fend of cannon balls / boltthrower shots) and crown of atrazar to fend of the second cannon ball and starlance to pack as much punch to the charge as possible. It is great support for ranked infanty on flank charges and excellent warmachine hunter and can fight against bigger targets.

I am not saying that the eagle noble would be still competetive choice, but it sure is more cost effective

Maturin wrote:
40 spearmen regiment

You probably have Full Command on them? if not I suggest taking and I personally like banner of discipline (well if you general is the archmage it will make the LD to 10) but if you like to have 18 inch leadership bubble with noble riding large target then that is that. Also banner of swiftness is good choice to make your elves move +1 and it will help your big steadfast breaking unit to keep up with faster griffon and dragon princes.

Maturin wrote:
What do you think ? I like the model of the noble on griffin, but I could also take something else instead. Maybe another mage or why not the Hoeth LoremasteR.


I personally don't like to invest on two casting lords and I seldom use level 2 mages. Allthough in competetive settings Dispel Scroll caddies are fairly commonly used. As for the support lore good old beasts is always fine with wyssan, shadow is excellent with low casting cost miasma. Heavens can work with good cc spell. Lore of metal isn't too bad either especially if you are facing empire with lots of 2+ armors ;) I just don't justify about 100-120 point investment to get that second mage and scroll caddy to be worth. For those points I would simple increase bodies in existing units ;) But that is just me :P
Author:  Maturin [ Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Noob + 1650 pts Tournament
Hi Loriel.

Just a quick batrep about the setup I used in my last game according to the discussion we had.

On a 1650 pts game agaisnt the empire (1 general on griffin, 1 steamtank and a full cav bus with one priest wielding the duel mirror and another character), I lost quite badly.

Here was my set up :

Prince dragon armour, bardeed steed, shield, Star lance, Talisman of preservation, Khaine's ring 290 pts
Noble with ogre blade, enchanted shield, iron curse icon. 128 pts
Lvl 4 Qrchmage, book of Hoeth and Life magic. 275 pts

38 Spearmen 342 pts
5 Elyrian reavers 95 pts
2 RBT 140
1 Lion chariot of Chrace 120
6 Dragon Princes, BoWD, FCMD 254 pts

I took quite a beating. He got first turn. His steam tank blew 1 of my RBT. His cavbus advanced, his griffin flew for 20".
On my turn, my rtb does nothing, I forced march all my cav except my lion chariot. Put Throne of vines, and +4 Stm on my spearmen blob.

2nd turn he charges with his steamtank and annihilates my Dragon Princes. Only the Prince stays in combat. HE delays the charge of his cav-bus, but charges my Lion Chariot who flees out of the table.
I charge the Elyrian reavers into the steamtank flanks but not even one single Life point stripped. My Rbt does nothing to the cav-bus.
I march my spearmen.

3r Turn, he starts by charging the cav-bus into my blob. I launch a duel, he uses his mirror artifact and his priest swap characteristics with my duel noble :(. I kill two of his knights, he kills 7 of my spearmen, despite +4regen, I lose the combat, roll a 10 on LD test, the blob flees, he run over me. Game Over.

Well that was quick :D.

I know I've made several mistakes (march forcing the cav toward the steamtank, letting him inflitc so much dmg on me, I used the wrong spells at the wrong time, for ex I saved a lot of dice to ressurect dead cavalry, but there was only the prince left, so I couldn't raise any single member of the now destroyed unit, etc). Still, I think it might be better to do it high magic style like you did on some of your batreps.
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
https://www.phpbb.com/