So I have a 1000 point tourney coming up at my local GW and I was thinking of running this
Lords
Archmage - lvl 4 Death
Talisman of Preservation
Khaine's ring of fury
Talisman of Preservation
Core
15x Archers - full command
5x Reavers - Bow and Spear, Musician
Rare
2x Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower
Special
15x Phoenix Guard - Full Command
The thought behind this list is to sit back and force the enemy to come to me then tidy them up with the phoenix guard. But any C + C is appreciated.
1000 point local tourney
Moderators: The Heralds, The Loremasters
Re: 1000 point local tourney
Now I am a relative newb, but I've been putting together a lot of 1000 point lists myself the last week or so as I try to get started playing some games, so I guess I can share my thoughts, despite my limited experience.. Make of it what you will!
First and foremost, I would say that Level 4 is overkill for such a small game.. that's almost 300 of your 1000 points! Considering that a couple of rubbish winds rolls can kill his effectiveness for turns at a time, or a miscast could make him outright useless, that's a hell of a points sink.
I'd say the command on the archers is a waste, except the musician. The champion isn't worth it and if they're in combat they're probably toast anyway.
I really feel that with such a low unit/model count you're just gonna be outnumbered, out-deployed and outmanoeuvred. Obviously depends on your meta and your game plan, I don't have that information, but if your opponent has any decent ranged I can see the Reavers being shot off before they can really do anything, which leaves you sitting on your side of the table with one relatively small combat unit which can't possibly hope to protect your archers, warmachines and mage (who represents almost 1/3 of your points, his death will most likely cost you the game) all by itself.
Unless your magic phase does some massive damage (and obviously that's a possibility, though not reliable) you're basically relying on a couple of rounds of 12 BS4/S4 and 15 BS4/S3 shots to do enough damage that your fifteen phoenix guard (and your archers if they roll well, they still have ASF after all!) to finish off whatever makes it to your side of the board. Unless you get lucky and cause some failed panic tests, or, as I said, you get lucky with magic and obliterate half his force, I'd say those 50+ shots are unlikely to make enough of a dent that you won't have a lot left to fight against some armies - and not much to fight it with!
Of course I'm sure there will be many more experienced opinions, and they can feel free to correct me. That's just how I see it.
First and foremost, I would say that Level 4 is overkill for such a small game.. that's almost 300 of your 1000 points! Considering that a couple of rubbish winds rolls can kill his effectiveness for turns at a time, or a miscast could make him outright useless, that's a hell of a points sink.
I'd say the command on the archers is a waste, except the musician. The champion isn't worth it and if they're in combat they're probably toast anyway.
I really feel that with such a low unit/model count you're just gonna be outnumbered, out-deployed and outmanoeuvred. Obviously depends on your meta and your game plan, I don't have that information, but if your opponent has any decent ranged I can see the Reavers being shot off before they can really do anything, which leaves you sitting on your side of the table with one relatively small combat unit which can't possibly hope to protect your archers, warmachines and mage (who represents almost 1/3 of your points, his death will most likely cost you the game) all by itself.
Unless your magic phase does some massive damage (and obviously that's a possibility, though not reliable) you're basically relying on a couple of rounds of 12 BS4/S4 and 15 BS4/S3 shots to do enough damage that your fifteen phoenix guard (and your archers if they roll well, they still have ASF after all!) to finish off whatever makes it to your side of the board. Unless you get lucky and cause some failed panic tests, or, as I said, you get lucky with magic and obliterate half his force, I'd say those 50+ shots are unlikely to make enough of a dent that you won't have a lot left to fight against some armies - and not much to fight it with!
Of course I'm sure there will be many more experienced opinions, and they can feel free to correct me. That's just how I see it.
RM's High Elf Plog
High Elves: 9 Painted, 112 Remaining
High Elves: 9 Painted, 112 Remaining
Re: 1000 point local tourney
Just for the record, thought I'd add the list that I'm currently thinking of using at 1,000 points. It's mainly based around what I own but I feel like it's pretty good. I've written it with a "stand-and-shoot then mop up" plan in mind so maybe looking at it will give you some ideas for your own list..
________
Heroes
Mage, Level 2, High, Khaine's Ring - 145
Noble, BSB, Heavy Armour, Golden Crown, Sword of Might, Shield of the Merwyrm - 144
Core
15 Archers, Musician - 160
16 Lothern Sea Guard, Full Command - 206
19 Spearmen, Full Command - 201
Rare
2 x Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower - 140
Total: 996
________
It's still a work in progress, but I feel it's half decent. I'm gonna stick the BSB, who should be pretty survivable, in with the spears and the mage with the archers. I feel like in a stand and shoot army at these low points, the sea guard are actually pretty worth it. Suddenly you're putting out 50% more shots per turn (give or take), plus stand and shoot reaction, and they can hit back a little harder in combat.
I know 16 LSGs aren't as good as 15 PGs (durr..), but I feel like the advantage gained by having twice the models and more importantly twice the units (thus able to support each other, better able to protect the war machines and archers, more ability to flank, etc) is worth the trade.
Level 2 High with KRoF gives him three potentially useful spells (hand of glory will obviously help with shooting if you get it off), with low-ish casting values.. Shield of Saphery is kind of wasted on the archers I admit, but hey, archers with a 5++ or 6++ is better than archers with no save I suppose...
Anyway hope I provided some help or at least a fresh look at things...
________
Heroes
Mage, Level 2, High, Khaine's Ring - 145
Noble, BSB, Heavy Armour, Golden Crown, Sword of Might, Shield of the Merwyrm - 144
Core
15 Archers, Musician - 160
16 Lothern Sea Guard, Full Command - 206
19 Spearmen, Full Command - 201
Rare
2 x Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower - 140
Total: 996
________
It's still a work in progress, but I feel it's half decent. I'm gonna stick the BSB, who should be pretty survivable, in with the spears and the mage with the archers. I feel like in a stand and shoot army at these low points, the sea guard are actually pretty worth it. Suddenly you're putting out 50% more shots per turn (give or take), plus stand and shoot reaction, and they can hit back a little harder in combat.
I know 16 LSGs aren't as good as 15 PGs (durr..), but I feel like the advantage gained by having twice the models and more importantly twice the units (thus able to support each other, better able to protect the war machines and archers, more ability to flank, etc) is worth the trade.
Level 2 High with KRoF gives him three potentially useful spells (hand of glory will obviously help with shooting if you get it off), with low-ish casting values.. Shield of Saphery is kind of wasted on the archers I admit, but hey, archers with a 5++ or 6++ is better than archers with no save I suppose...
Anyway hope I provided some help or at least a fresh look at things...
Last edited by Razzy Mac on Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
RM's High Elf Plog
High Elves: 9 Painted, 112 Remaining
High Elves: 9 Painted, 112 Remaining
Re: 1000 point local tourney
I haven't played a game this small in quite a while, but I recall that when I did I had a lot of success running my core as 10 silverhelms (or 8-9 with noble / noble and bsb). At that level there was relatively little that could deal with a 2+ armour save, although the game has moved on a lot since then (indeed when I last used this I could give my BSB the battle banner and get +D6 combat resolution, which helped immensely).
I would consider carefully your magic; that much points at this level is very risky. I would consider taking either a loremaster kitted to be a bit fighty and accept that any magic you get off is a bonus - plus the signature spells aren't too shabby at all. Otherwise a level 1 in the phoenix guard with high magic and khaines ring - the ability to get 4D6 or 6D6 if you are lucky S4 hits off each turn is great, plus you can boost the ward save on your phoenix guard to 3++, always handy.
Either way I would be tempted to take another combat unit. There are some match ups that this army just can't deal with - phoenix guard are a great anvil and can absorb a lot of damage, but can't give it out as effectively. A unit of white lions or small units of swordmasters might be useful. I would also consider a phoenix - you can take it and at this level it would be relatively difficult to deal with.
Anyway, just some thoughts.
I would consider carefully your magic; that much points at this level is very risky. I would consider taking either a loremaster kitted to be a bit fighty and accept that any magic you get off is a bonus - plus the signature spells aren't too shabby at all. Otherwise a level 1 in the phoenix guard with high magic and khaines ring - the ability to get 4D6 or 6D6 if you are lucky S4 hits off each turn is great, plus you can boost the ward save on your phoenix guard to 3++, always handy.
Either way I would be tempted to take another combat unit. There are some match ups that this army just can't deal with - phoenix guard are a great anvil and can absorb a lot of damage, but can't give it out as effectively. A unit of white lions or small units of swordmasters might be useful. I would also consider a phoenix - you can take it and at this level it would be relatively difficult to deal with.
Anyway, just some thoughts.