HE 2400 list Please advise!

[Shadowblades]

Hey guys, this is my first HE list as i am still playing Dark elves. I love all the elves and slowly working towards a 2400 High elf army. The list below i just need advice on, in turn my goal is to use my infantry units to pin the combat in the centre and then bring all other units (Once they have finished their jobs clearing trash/war machines) in a pincer like movement and sweep the flanks up.
I suppose my question is am i using the right units?

LORDS:

Archmage
+lvl 4
+Book of Hoeth
+Talisman of Pres
(Lore, with this list i was maybe thinking life? Also, this mage goes in with White Lions)

HEROES

Noble
+HA
+Lion Cloak
+Enchanted Shield
+BSB
+Dawnstone
+Khaine's ring of Fury (in with PG to give them 3+ ward)

CORE

5 Illyrian Reavers

5 Illyrian Reavers

17 Silver Helms
+FC
+Shields

SPECIAL

24 White Lions
+FC
+BotWD

24 Phoenix Guard
+FC
+Razor Banner

10 Shadow Warriors
+SHadow Walker

RARE

Frostheart Phoenix

2 Great Eagles

That puts me at 2396 points. So.......as i said before, i want this rather combat oriented so this is what i think suites me. If you can pick up anything wrong here guys please advise me.
My only other burning question is my Archmage, she will be situated in the WL. As they will be going into combat is it worthwhile swapping the mage out for a Loremaster?

[Breezly]

When I am in list design mode I tend to make crazy lists and then they evolve to something like...yours.

A couple of questions.

1) Why the big SH bus? Without characters you will find that they are very lackluster after the 1st round. If you are dead set on keeping them, consider two units of 6 as anti-chaff hunters. I think this big unit will not add a lot of value to your list. Perhaps a small unit of SH and a block of archers for shooting.

2) Loremaster vs AM....they age old question. To be honest, I go back and forth in my lists with this question. I think in game, the archmage wins over the loremaster in my results, simply for the defensive capabilities of a +4 to dispell...but, the Loremaster has been a nifty game changer with a Miasma/Ice Shard at the right time in the right combat. I would not, however, put your Archmage on the front lines, if you are not going High magic in the PG. She will get picked off quickly, as a 4++ will not stand up over time. I like Life and I like High magic for your list, try them out and see. If you go High, put her in the PG. If you go Life, perhaps an archer bunker.

3) How have you found shadow warriors? I think 10 is a better number than 5, so I think you are on the right track. They are tricky to use, so you will need a few games with them to get a handle...don't give up if they aren't working for you. I think they have a place.

4) But, if the SW don't work out, drop them for 2 RBTs as they are always a good option.

Overall though, I like the list. You will find it performs pretty well once you get a handle on how to make the units work together.

Good Luck.

--Breezly

[Shadowblades]

Thank you so much for the fast reply!

Your advice is sound and i have definately taken that into consideration. I have indeed also thought about after the SH's have charged, the next combat phase will lack in power as its all about the charge with them. I dont want to hero list aswell, i'm a believer in more boots on the ground do the job. So what i take from your advice is to drop the 5-6 SH's and the Illyrian reavers? Or just 5-6 SH's?
Obviously spend leftover points on archers, therefore i will put the Lvl4 in with them.

As for my Archmage, you have cleared a few things up. I like full control over a certain Lore and i dont just want the signatures so thats made it easy for me to decide. My Noble is in the with Pheonix guard with Khaine's ring of fury for the 3+ Ward if im able to cast the spell. PG sorted (Fingers crossed haha). I was also thinking Life as my sole aim for this list is depending on my PG and WL's.

I currently ALWAYS run Shades in my DE list, at least 5...ALWAYS. They add so much utility to the game and can add pressure at times for the opponent. Granted, SW's are no way near as good, but they do have 30'' bows which is nice and i do like to use them to war machine hunt. a nice unit of 10, charge them in and that machine (depending on what type) should drop.

Do you think my numbers in the PG and WL's is enough to hold combat in the centre and do you think i have enough control on the board without Bolt throwers? Becasue if not i could drop the shadow warriors for 2 bolt throwers.

[John Rainbow]

I've run something very similar to this list in the past:

Archmage(4)[Shadow] + BoH, Golden Crown, Ironcurse
BSB + Reaver Bow, Pot.Str.
Mage(2)[Heavens] + scroll

21 Archers + MS
10 Archers + M
3 x 5 Reavers + bow/spear

27 WLs + CMS, BotWD
24 PG + CMS, Razor Banner

11 Sisters
4 RBTs

It works pretty well but has some hard counters, as your list does. I second Breezly in doing something different with the SHs. You don't really have any damage potential outside of CC in your list and this is a problem. I would split the SHs into smaller units, maybe adding some Reavers instead to ensure you can get the matchups you need for the PG/WL. The list I wrote has some shooting to force the opponent to move and can play defensive if it needs to. Your list can't do this and is a bit less flexible in the way it plays. Some opponents are also a hard counter for infantry based HE lists. Specifically, DE with Witches + cauldron (twin towers style lists) will steamroll this build. It depends on what you expect to face as it is very good against a bunch of other builds.

[Breezly]

Do you think my numbers in the PG and WL's is enough to hold combat in the centre and do you think i have enough control on the board without Bolt throwers? Because if not i could drop the shadow warriors for 2 bolt throwers.

You will find that 2 RBTs are better than 10 SW on every day of the week...but, SW are cooler. I have yet to find the way to make them more effective, so it is up to you to decide. SW are not shades, so they will disappoint you if that is your aim. In the end, it is how you use the units together that make them shine. I would take RBTs over SW in your list.

As for your core, I think 2 smaller units of SH will work well for board control.

--Breezly

[Shadowblades]

Exactly my thoughts. I always come away impressed with my shades, as my new 2400 list is a delivery system with an assassin, they have great weapons and its a mini killing unit. so cool. Shadow warriors are also cool, but when it comes to earning your daily salt i think i will be disapointed in them. I will take the Bolt throwers instead.

What about the great eagles? With a march of 4'' they hardly offer much other than a redirect infront of my infantry. They viable?

So, so far my changes are to drop 6 Silver helms (Theres actually 18 in my list, made a typo) and replace with archers. That excess in points would get me 13 archers exactly without command for my mage bunker or 10 with full command. Choice there?

I would like to bulk out my infantry more but alas, my points are stretched as is so i think it will remain like so. List has potential?

[Breezly]

What about the great eagles? With a march of 4'' they hardly offer much other than a redirect infront of my infantry. They viable?

So, so far my changes are to drop 6 Silver helms (Theres actually 18 in my list, made a typo) and replace with archers. That excess in points would get me 13 archers exactly without command for my mage bunker or 10 with full command. Choice there?

I would like to bulk out my infantry more but alas, my points are stretched as is so i think it will remain like so. List has potential?

Eagles are worth their weight in gold. Don't use them on the attack, you keep them behind your lines in cover and bring them out when you need to block a charge or redirect a big unit. They are great for distracting big units, forcing frenzied troops to overrun in the wrong direction, etc. There is a tactica on Eagles in that section so take a look. They are a must, so keep them in. FYI, Eagles Fly March 20", so you have a lot of flexibility. They pursue on the ground, but that doesn't matter in the dice roll.

Archers...hmm. Depends upon the game if you need banners for Blood and Glory or some such. I wouldn't put a champ if you don't have the points, but a muso is good for swift reform firing. Banner is there is you need it for game scenarios, etc.

As for viable, certainly, it is a great combined arms list that is fun to play and I even think fun to play against.

--Breezly

[Shadowblades]

Thank you so much for such sound advice.

So it's set on Eagles then. I didn't realise they could march 20", but doesnt matter now as they r just going to fill the blocking role on my centre.

With this is my combat is based around my WL and PG. Against most armies I presume it should stand their ground for a few turns? Hopefully by then if I haven't lost all my SH and chaff I can mop up on the flanks with them, which is solely my game plan.

Lore of life to keep my most precious units alive.

I feel confident now, no thanks to your decent criticism. I really appreciate all and can't wait to go out and get all the models.

Thanks.