2500 Swedish Comp advice appreciated

[Râstë]

I'll be attending a 13-19 swedish comp tournament later this year and so far I've come up with 2 lists:

Link to the swedish comp system: https://www.dropbox.com/s/wso616i3nm8oz ... 1.13.5.pdf

Prince, heavy armour, Giant Blade, Shield of the Merwyrm @ 221 -12
Noble, BSB, light armour, great weapon, Talisman of Preservation, @ 146 -14
High Mage, lvl.2 Wizard, Ring of Fury, Dispel Scroll @ 170 -20
High Mage, lvl.2 Wizard, Obsidian Lodestone, Ironcurse Icon @ 170 -8
28 Spearelves, FC @ 291 -8
28 Spearelves, FC @ 291 -8
18 Archers, musician @ 190 -7
5 Ellyrian Reavers, musician @ 90 -4
5 Ellyrian Reavers, musician @ 90 -6
6 Silver Helms, shields @ 138 -6
Tiranoc Chariot @ 70 -3
27 Swordmasters, FC @ 381 -23
8 Sisters of Avelorn @ 112 -6
Repeater Bolt Thrower @ 70 -7
Repeater Bolt Thrower @ 70 -9
2500 15,9

A slightly different list with more shooting and magic but less blocks:

Noble, BSB, great weapon, Armour of Destiny, @ 149 -14
Prince, heavy armour, Giant Blade, Shield of the Merwyrm @ 221 -12
High Archmage, Ring of Fury, Dispel Scroll, Talisman of Preservation @ 280 -33
High Mage, lvl.2 Wizard, Obsidian Lodestone, Ironcurse Icon @ 170 -8
28 Spearelves, FC @ 291 -8
18 Archers, musician @ 190 -7
5 Ellyrian Reavers, musician @ 90 -4
5 Ellyrian Reavers, musician @ 90 -6
6 Silver Helms, shields, musician @ 148 -6
5 Silver Helms, shields, musician @ 125 -6
27 Swordmasters, FC @ 381 -23
8 Sisters of Avelorn @ 112 -6
8 Sisters of Avelorn @ 112 -6
Repeater Bolt Thrower @ 70 -7
Repeater Bolt Thrower @ 70 -9
Shooting: -1
2499 14,5

I'm abit concerned that my mages will be easy to kill once the champion is dead so I upgraded one my lvl.2 to a lvl.3 and gave him the Talisman of Preservation.

My plan is to put all my characters in a spearelf block, and that's basically my thoughtprocess so far

I'm open to change my list so go ahead and rip it apart if you think you can improve it!

[Rabidnid]

There are no banners and very few touches that will help with survival.

The Prince would do well with dragon armour for the 6+ ward and 2+ ward versus flaming

The BSB could make do with a halberd and armour of destiny

Your 2x lvl 2 mages could be replaced by a loremastrer with scroll. Mine has talisman of preservation, dragon helm, scroll and sword of might.

I really like spears, but I would not expect them to achieve much in a list without shadow. You are way beyond your core requirement so a unit of specials would be a much better idea. By keeping the units smaller you will reduce the penalties significantly. 2 units of 21 swordmasters will be 26, while your current 28 spears and 27 SM is about 31.

[Axiem]

Prince, heavy armour, Giant Blade, Shield of the Merwyrm @ 221 -12
Noble, BSB, light armour, great weapon, Talisman of Preservation, @ 146 -14
High Mage, lvl.2 Wizard, Ring of Fury, Dispel Scroll @ 170 -20
High Mage, lvl.2 Wizard, Obsidian Lodestone, Ironcurse Icon @ 170 -8
28 Spearelves, FC @ 291 -8
28 Spearelves, FC @ 291 -8
18 Archers, musician @ 190 -7
5 Ellyrian Reavers, musician @ 90 -4
5 Ellyrian Reavers, musician @ 90 -6
6 Silver Helms, shields @ 138 -6
Tiranoc Chariot @ 70 -3
27 Swordmasters, FC @ 381 -23
8 Sisters of Avelorn @ 112 -6
Repeater Bolt Thrower @ 70 -7
Repeater Bolt Thrower @ 70 -9
2500 15,9

I like this one better as a starting point, although I agree with Rabidnid that you're over too many points in Core to make it seem worthwhile, competitively speaking.

There are two ways I could see you making the Spearelves work. You could pair them with a Loremaster or Shadow Archmage, the first of which I think would certainly work well with your all-comers feel that you have currently. This, additionally, allows you to take better misdirectors and ranged units in Special and Rare (namely Sisters, Eagles) instead of Reavers. I can't attest to how competitive this is versus the traditional wisdom of "Helms, more Helms!" and likely it is worse, however it does create a very point-denial style which can hold for a long while. You just need something to make sure the grind works in your favor, and this is where I think some thought should be given. A Frostheart wouldn't go amiss, even though it comps poorly.

As for characters, I would go with Loremaster, Prince, BSB and use the rest of the points elsewhere. If you're wanting to make a truly all-comers list, you have to be able to deal with everything your opponent is going to bring, and that usually means not taking tons of characters and instead taking lots of units. A Handmaiden might be an exception here, particularly for you, since if you drop your core down to 625, you'll be missing out on ways of clearing chaff and dealing damage at range.

Have a think about how you want to ultimately win the grind. I don't consider Swordmasters an answer, because you've basically got a Deathstar which is likely to be misdirected the entire game, especially considering how soft the other parts of your list are. If you can come up with a decent solution, I could see this list doing well - it's quite unorthodox and should catch people unawares.

Hope that helps!

Axiem

[Râstë]

Thanks for the replies!

For some reason my dices are having a grudge towards any model wearing dragon armour, which was the reason I skipped giving my characters it.

I went with great weapon because it felt like my unit needed as many can openers as possible, but I think you're right. Giving up ASF for 1 more strength doesn't feel worth it.

I went with double High mages so I could buff my characters ward save up to 3++, but a Loremaster might complement my units better. I have no experience of using high magic to boost ward saves, is it worth sacrificing a Loremaster to give my characters more durability (does T3 4++ really cut it)?

I really like your idea going for double Swordmaster regiments & it would also give me 57pts to toy with, maybe I should go for a 1-1 Swordmaster Phoenix Guard split instead?

The Frostheart gives so much comp penalty so I didn't think it was worthwhile. I think I'd rather want more bodies on the battlefield.

Swordmasters felt suboptimal compared to Phoenix Guard in a grindfest but they're cheaper compwise so I thought why not (I'm also a sucker for Swordmasters but that kind of thinking doesn't belong in making a list optimal).

Here's an updated list:
Loremaster, Dispel Scroll, Sword of Might, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Preservation @ 225 -29
Prince, heavy armour, Giant Blade, Shield of the Merwyrm @ 221 -12
Noble, BSB, halberd, Armour of Destiny, @ 147 -14

28 Spearelves, FC @ 291 -8
18 Archers, musician @ 190 -7
5 Ellyrian Reavers, musician @ 90 -4
5 Ellyrian Reavers, musician @ 90 -6
5 Silver Helms, shields @ 115 -6

Tiranoc Chariot @ 70 -3
21 Swordmasters, FC @ 303 -14
21 Phoenix Guard, FC, Razor Standard @ 390 -17

8 Sisters of Avelorn @ 112 -6
8 Sisters of Avelorn @ 112 -6
Repeater Bolt Thrower @ 70 -7
Repeater Bolt Thrower @ 70 -9

Shooting: -1
2496 15,1

Maybe I should cut 5 Archers to add a Great Eagle? 3 more comp penalty but I don't know if the current amount of chaff will be enough. It would cut the potential for archers in combat though...

Overall I really like this list but I'm really worried about the survival of my characters. In most cases, where would you put the characters in a list like this?