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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:00 pm 
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So I participated in the cincycon warhammer fantasy tournament a week or so ago.
A little back story, I was running an MSU force for probably 4 months prior to the event, then 2 weeks before the event I changed my list out of fear of hard of nails armies. This was list I took...

Loremaster:dispel scroll, dragon helm, talisman of preservation, cloak of beards
Noble:dragon armor, sword of anti heros, shield of the merwrym, bsb
Lvl 2: high magic, channeling staff
5 reavers: spears, musician
20 archers: musician, standard
30 spears: full command, standard of discipline
25 phoenix guard: full command, razor standard
25 swordmasters: full command, banner of the world dragon
2 bolters
2x5 sisters
2x great eagles
So yeah, kinda cut and dry list! I thought I had a chance to wreck faces!
I then preceeded to go 1-2... And came out 21/26. Not to good of an outcome!
Game 1 vs dwarfs:
He had
Lord w/trimmings
Runesmith/stuff
Bsb/ dispel banner
30 warriors/ command
14 long beards or so
14 hammerers
2x vanguarding gyros
Gyro
Runed canon
Runed flame canon
Runed grudge thrower
Runed Organ gun
So yeah! Great!
Highlights: my 5 reavers managed to kill all warmachines on their own! Bam!
Phoenix guard took a lot of death and in the end died but killed longbeards and 2 gyros!
Spearman lived!
So I ended up winning this one 15-6 after bonus points, great start!

Game 2 vs dwarves!

Exact same lord set up!
30 warriors w/ great weapons
30 warriors w/ great weapons
30 hammerers
2 bare canons
Bare flame canon
2x runed grudge throwers
Runed organ gun
Oh and an engineer!
Nothing good happened at all! For me that is. Phoenix guard flubbed 3 rounds or so of combat against warriors, manage to kill 3 machines and engineer. Swords broke against hammerers first round of combat. Lost by 1 with reroll! Run down by dwarves, dead loremaster. Spears lived with lvl 2!
22-2 list after bonuses!

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"So do all who see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time we are given!"


Last edited by Cealyne on Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cincycon... Painful!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:59 am
Posts: 200
Well awesome! Game 3 an my summary didn't post!
So...
Game 3 vs empire
Lvl 4 heavens
Lvl 1 metal
Mounted warrior priest
Mounted bsb
2x engineer
40 halberds
2x5 bows
10 inner circle knights
2x canon
2x hellblaster
4 Demi's
3 Demi's
Stank
Highlights: loremaster, lvl 2 and phoenix guard managed to kill knights plus mounted characters, and all Demi's! Boom! Still lost though! Keith though was a wonderful opponent!
13-9 loss after bonuses.

My summary and analysis was/is... Uncomped US tournies are rough! Oh well!
I do feel I should have stuck with my MSU force. All in all though a decently fun event! I hope to go to next year and do better. Oh, overall I was 21/26.. Eeck!
New list to follow!

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 Post subject: Re: Cincycon... Painful!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:44 pm 
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Posts: 200
So yeah! After the pains of cincycon and feeling I made a mistake in my army choice I've jumped fully into MSU. Here is my initial plan and will tweak what I need to as I go...

Astromancer Rayhila: lvl 4 heavens, dispell scroll, talisman of preservation
I really felt the pain of no lvl 4 recently. I was running a loremaster and he has been okay. Great spell selection but has found out that it is actually too easy to priorities what spells to stop and what to let go. I have moved to heavens, why?
HEAVENS: I find it a great all around lore. The buff is just great! On great weapon troops it's awesome. The debuffs are even better. -1 to hit is just superb. After facing 3 gun lines, comet is a no brainier as to why it's good. 2 strength 6 (!) damaging attacks! Strength 6! Wind blast is a novelty. The attribute is also great to add threat against a many threats we elves face, terrorgheist, chimeras, demon princes, ect. To name a few.
His gear is just my taste. I don't feel safe without a ward on a near 300 point general. The scroll is another thing I am reluctant to get rid of. We'll see if earthing rid might need to be switched in.

Battle standard bearer, noble Trahj: dragon armor, sword if might, shield of the merwrym, golden crown
Yeah, I never leave home without a BsB! Pretty standard reasoning for having him. His kit may seem odd but I found out that my bsb almost always ends up in combat or by the threat of it. The shield is a cheap 4++, dragon armor is expensive but worth it for the 2++ fire ward. I was running the reaverbow/pot of strength but in the end the BS just hurt. He was wanting to keep pace with my combat troops so I usually hit like crap. I was also trying out the sword if anti heros, but I feel that with an MSU army I don't want to be engaging units with multiple characters. So the sword of might is in for consistent strength o 5.
2 characters keeping it simple!

5 reavers: bows and spears, musician
2x5 reavers: spears only spears, musician
Basic redirectors and support troops. The spears for me are a must. I find yawls using them in combat a lot, against warmachines, enemy chaff and even to help in the flank with my elites. I took the bows on the one unit to help reach the minimum core. I don't really expect much from the bows.

2x15 archers: standards, musicians
Yeah pretty basic reasons. Good at clearing chaff, good for a bunker for the Mage of bsb if need be. Also more than willing to add their rank (s) to a combat. Backed up by harmonic convergence, the shots are better by a bit.

2x5 dragon princes: 1 unit with musician, 2nd unit with musician, standard, banner of eternal flame
Great shock cav! The fireborn makes them near immune to metal magic and skull canons. I also find myself using them as character assassination squads from time to time. Implies suicide half the time but if I take out a bsb or lvl 4, then well worth it. I do need to watch the combo charges with my great weapon elites due to the attacking first, a few times I have taken my elites out of combat.

2x10 white lions: standards, musicians, 1 with standard if discipline
Awesome combat troops, made even better by harmonic! Great save against shooting, and throw in stubborn and then can hold up just in time form help. Discipline standard helps against a great many threats, the extra pip of leadership is awesome.

10 swordmasters: champ, musician
I wish I had points for a second unit but the rest of my list is still in trial mode so I can't spare the points. All in all great shock infantry. The higher WS of 6 is great, plus 2 attacks base, makes these guys real blenders of my force. Often enough my opponents just leave them be until combat is joined. Haven't figured out why that is yet either. Oh well.

5 shadow warriors
Well, mostly just vanguard deterrents. Also helpful to not let man eaters scout to close, or those pesky damn skinks! If I can will use them against warmachines or solo character assassination squad. In a pinch will be used as redirectors.

2 skycutters
Giving them a shot. Yet to try them out, but I feel they have great potential. The ability to charge over units and terrain I feel could be very useful. It's a work in progress.

Lion chariot
Used this guy plenty of times! It can be very destructive! If I don't flub the impact hits roll. The added stubborn makes them a tad better. Not hoping for great things but when used with another chariot or dragon princes, I hope them to make short work of the enemy.

2x5 sisters of Avelorn
Cheap and great for removing regen o taking care of ethereal units. The higher BS means they can clear chaff easier than archers. In a pinch they can be used as a sacrifice unit to block threatening units.

2 great eagles
Don't think I need to explain them!

Bolt thrower
Again real easy to understand. Only 1, had 2 but change it out for the scouts. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Not too much invested so if it fails no biggy.

Well, that's my trial run so far. I've used most the units. We'll see how they function together. Really anxious to see how the chariots perform. As well as the heavens Mage to synergize with the army.
Any comments, questions or concerns as always are welcome.

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"So do all who see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time we are given!"


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:45 am 
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Location: On the path of an outcast
Hi Cealyne,

Thanks for posting your list for consideration and apologies for commenting so late. usually I prefer to do so in battle reports and focus on the possibilities in the game. I believe the list is as good as the player can make it and everybody has their own point of view on units usefulness.

But I am also curious about some choices you have made and I think it is yet another very interesting version of a MSU list.

Astromancer

I am always happy to see people trying to use things others don't (or at least not that often). Heavens is a very good lore and if you happen to face another MSU-ish force you will be happy to have it too! There are very good spells there that don't seem to have a huge impact but it is just and illusion. I mean buff/debuff ones. In the game of dice a reroll is a powerful tool.

Very true about S6 damage. Very versatile and people don't like being hit like that at all. Just practice d6 rolling to get these numbers high! :) And comet is of course good one against many opponents who might otherwise refuse to move, not only gunlines. I would love to read a report with your Astromancer.

Dispel scroll is always a good item to have. There is no doubt about it. Earthing Rod is another good one. My approach is that I use it only to prevent Cascade. Thus I don't give away 400+ VP to my enemy. I prefer that my caster-general does nothing else for the rest of the game but survives.

Another thing that Earthing Rod might help is risking that 6-dice spell if you really need it. It may not be subtle solution but provides some insurance and can help you to cast a comet when you need it the most, for example but when your opponent still has a dispel scroll or similar amount of dice.

Battle Standard Bearer

I was thinking about similar set up for him. He is still vulnerable but at least he is a decent fighter and can add a little to combat himself too. He does not have to be there but when he does he is capable of fighting against rank and file. He is not geared to fight powerful enemy characters but with the equipment he has he does not have to be babysit either.

Core Troops

It is an interesting set up with 3 reavers units but only one with bows. I prefer to add bows to any unit I have as they add to the flexibility. They are very good in fighting off other fast units on their own. Shoot, stand & shoot and finish in combat for example.

2 units of Archers are also very good additions. I would try to get champions there too so that you can challenge some powerful individuals and remain steadfast. If you can of course :)

Special Troops

I use similar combat specialists so there is nothing I can add as you pointed out their strengths properly. They are simply the units that do the killing and they are good at it!

Shadow Warriors will show up way more often these days as everybody wants to block vanguard now :)

Chariots have some advantages over regular units that make them more appealing. First, they don't lose attacks even if just touching the enemy so they are great in supporting charges. Second, with very long charge range they create danger zones for many units. And they can potentially all charge one target. Nobody likes 3d6 S5 impacts. Skycutters have that great potential that is their flying movement. They cannot be contained easily. Lion chariot definitely is powerful and also can do damage in later turns of combat. Stubbornness is a bonus to be used sometimes too. And with 3 of them in total you can even mitigate the fact they can be lost quickly due to cannons etc.

Rare Troops

I used that set up for long time and it simply works. With amount of shooting you have they will create a very versatile shooting phase. People are still surprised how powerful it can be!

There are some similarities but there are also enough of different choices that may make that list work differently. I am very curious about its performance so I hope you will play some games soon and will have time for a report!

Cheers!

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High Elves MSU - Observations

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Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:45 am 
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Ty for the reply Swordmaster!
Great to hear some feed back. I am in the process of writing up my first bat rep with my new list. I hope to not disappoint!
As far as the archer champs go, I like the idea of including them for the reasons u stated, but I don't think I can find the points for them. Could drop them down to 14 strong, but I prefer to keep them at 15 strong. I also only added the bows to the 3rd unit of reavers to get the core to exactly 25%. I'm not a fan of the bows. The penalty of moving and shooting hurts their chances of hitting. Plus S3 shots kinda be lack luster.
As far as the noble goes, he's a work in progress. Perhaps mounting on an eagle could help. I'll play it out and see what happens.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:59 am
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So, I had a game the today with my new list against a buddy of mine who plays Wood Elves! I little back story, he has been out of the game for 4ish years and just got back into the game 4 months ago. Sorry no photos or diagrams my camera sucks and battle chronicler isn't working yet on my comp. So here be the lists!

MSU high elves:
Lvl 4 heavens: talisman of preservation, dispell scroll
Noble bsb: dragon armor, sword of might, shield of the merwrym, goldbe crown

5 reavers: bows/spears, musician
2x5 reavers: spears only, musician
2x15 archers: musicians, standards

10 swordmasters: musician, blade lord
2x10 white lions: musicians, standards, 1 w/ standard if discipline
2x5 dragon princes: musician, 1 w/ banner of eternal flame
5 shadow warriors
Lion chariot
2 skycutters

Bolter
Great eagle
2x5 sisters of Avelorn
2500 points on the button!
My spells were: iceshard, harmonic, thunderbolt, comet

The woodies:

Treemen ancient: cluster
Lvl 4 life: divination orb
Noble: wild rider, killing blow spear
Noble: stuff, some it that allows unit to re roll psych tests

2x 10 glade guard
3x 14 dryads

20 eternal guard: full command
2x3 treekin
5 wild riders

Treemen
2500
Lvl 4 life had: earth blood, awakening, flesh, regrowth

Normal battle line set up, woods being mysterious.
Woodies from left to right. ( facing me )
10 glade guard, dryads #1, treemen ancient behind them, treekin #1, reg treemen behind them, eternal guard w/ lvl 4 and non mounted noble, dryads #2 and #3 side by side, treekin #2 behind them, wild riders next to treekin #2, and 10 glade guard

High elves from my left to right as well.
15 archers, 15 archers w/lvl 4, skycutter behind archers behind trees, reavers with bows, lion chariot, both dragon princes side by side, both reavers with spears, both sisters units, bolter, both white lions next to one another, swords behind and skycutter behind!

Turn # 1.....
So no vanguards, neither of us felt safe. My scouts made a blunder of a call and set up too close to the left most archers, their first and last mistake. As you can bet, the wood use went first. Damn the luck!
Woodies turn 1:
So he more or less shuffles everything forward a bit. Left archers wheel to face my scouts. Magic is a non event really, 3-1 phase. Failed to cast flesh on dryads ( whom he moved into his woods ). Shooting sees my scouts die, what a waste. Right most archers target a unit of sisters and kill 2. Panic passed.
High elves turn 1:
No charges! I think I should have charges my dragon princes into dryads in the woods but I decide against it. Everything sorta suffers around, left most skycutter flies over some trees hoping to flank the glade guard next turn. Left most reavers all but dare archers to turn and face them opening flank from skycutter. Magic is 4-1, what a joke! I throw it all on comet between his treekin and dryad units, it goes off. Shooting! Sees my archers fluby shots at his, 30 shits killing 4 glade guard, no panic. Bolter and sisters kill 5 total glade guard on right side! No panic, great start!
Woodies turn 2:
No charges! Left glade guard wheel to face reavers, flank exposed like the plan. Treemens move up in a the eating manner by his woods. Right most dryads ( both units push far forward real fast! Eternal guard shuffle up a few inches. He then forgets to move his wild riders, I offer to let him move um and he refuses. Magic is 1-1, man what a bad magic phase again! No spells cast. Shooting sees right most kill last 3 sisters from depleted unit. Not bad, reavers on left lose 2.
High elves turn 2:
I charge flank of glade guard, well that was the plan. Instead I roll three 1's and fail. On the right my other skycutter charges dryads and I attemp to charge both white lion units into far right dryads, only 1 unit makes it, bummer, or not. Magic 4-4, and comet comes down! Kills a treekin and 4 dryads. Nice! Thunderbolt wounds treemen ancient once, and that's about it. Shooting is also a bust, I also once agian neglected to charge my dragon princes into his dryads, ah well. Combat sees my skycutter kills 3 dryads and doesn't take a wound. I break them and pursue, catch them! Dryads whiff horribly and do 0 wounds to my lions and in return kill 8 dryads, break and catch them. In the pursuit I slam into the glade guard! Awesome!
Woodies turn 3:
He charges my right skycutter with treekin, I flee and am caught. Dumb shoulda held! He moves rest up a tad. Magic is 5-5, great. He cast regrowth on 3 dice and gets irrisitable! Treekin back to full health, and wizard takes a wound and about 8 eternal guard go bye bye! Shooting sees left most reavers die! Great! Combat, whites lions lose 2 guys and glade guard are murdered! I reform.
High elves turn 3:
Thunder cats hooo! Lion chariot and skycutter charge treemen ancient, and non flaming dragon princes charge dryads! All make it, skycutter hits flank of treemen ancient. Magic is 5-3, no channels. I open up with comet, he dispells. I then get iceshard on treemen ancient and thunderbolt on reg treemen dealing a massive 5 wounds! ( I will then go on to not being able to kill this damn guy! Shooting sees my archers do nil. Bolter kills 3 wild riders. Combat! Princes kill a mess of the dryads for no lose, he's in the woods so stubborn and then breaks. Ran wn and my princes are out if the charge arc of the reg treemen! Chariots do a total of 1 wound, skycutter broken to pieces and lion chariot holds on stubborn, well that could have gone better!
Woodies turn 4:
Treekin charges eagle, I flee ( going 12 inches off board, come on! ) he redirects into reavers, I hold... Still no clue why. Reg treemen into flank of lion chariot. Eternal guard shuffle up closer, wild riders move to charge bolter or sisters next turn. Magic is 3-3, no channels. He casts flesh to stone on treekin, with double 6's! Miscast losses a wound and rest of dice. The lore attribute heals first wound only to get another! Lol! No shooting he again forgot to move archers around. Treekin annihilate the reavers and over run into rear of flaming princes. Bummer! Lion chariot then does the impossible and does 4 wounds to the treemen ancient! And is then smashed to bits! Both treemen done to 1 wound a piece! For the rest of the game.
High elves turn 4:
This will be our last turn, he had to get going. Called into work early, oh well. Was a great turn. Swordmasters and white lions With bb charge eternal guard. They make it! Sisters move to face wild riders. Magic is a non event. Sisters and bolter kill last wild riders and noble with them! Bam! Combat sees my noble kill his in a challenge and lions in flank kill lvl 4. Rest kill last eternal guard. Treekin kill 4 princes and I hold on snake eyes!! Game!
After we totaled up points I was up by 840ish points! First victory with new MSU force!
Will follow up with an overview shortly.
Comments always welcome! Hope u enjoyed!

_________________
"So do all who see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time we are given!"


Last edited by Cealyne on Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:14 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:32 pm 
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Excited to hear how those chariots perform!

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:17 am 
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First bat rep up! Hope U enjoy!

Follow up: to be continued!

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:32 am 
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Hi Cealyne,

Your list looks sound - glad to see it worked well for you.

I actually think wood elves can be a hard list to go against with MSU elves because if they focus their shooting they can really delete units, so well done on the win :). Pictures/battle chronicler would make it easier to follow, but I can't talk there :roll: .

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