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Caradryal
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower

#31 Post by Caradryal »

The fact I'm somewhat low on combat units has had me thinking.

I may swap out the Frostheart for a unit of Dragon Princes.

6 x Dragon Princes
FC, Star Lance, Enchanted Shield

or

7 x Dragon Princes
FC, Enchanted Shield

The first for more punch from the Drakemaster and the second for more survivability.

I'd lose the (frankly awesome) blizzard aura but I'd gain some more survivability and make enemy war machines slightly more redundant.

Any thoughts?
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower

#32 Post by Caradryal »

Also,

Does anyone have any ideas on what lore to field on the level 1? I was thinking about the following,

High - Decent signature in Soul Quench should I be looking for an extra magic missle or drain magic for some extra magic defence when I'm really outgunned in the magic phase. The +1 for high magic effectively makes him a lvl 2 when casting as well.

Shadow - An extra miasma could come in very handy for slowing the advance of enemy armies or hindering them in multiple combats.

Light - Another flaming magic missle wouldn't hurt and there really isn't any spells I wouldn't mind getting if I roll something else.

Metal - Again as the above, but better for breaking down cavalry busses or chariots etc.

I'm mainly looking at the signature spells as they are the only ones I can reliably get with a lvl 1.

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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower

#33 Post by Serenity »

Versatility, to me, is key to having an effective Magic Phase with the Loremaster. That, and getting a lot of cheap, but useful, spells through.

For those reasons, I'd go with High Magic. The +1 makes it just that bit less likely that your opponent can throw less dice than you and still reliably get the dispel off, and adding a new spell seems more effective than duplicating choices you already had: that'd make you more predictable, and that's never a good thing. I'm not sure you need another Magic Missile, but Drain Magic is (still) awesome.

Not to mention the Lore Attribute will definitely force people to dispel if you have your Mage in the Phoenix Guard later in the game...
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower

#34 Post by Macharius »

I'm not sure you need to exchange the Frostheart for a unit of Dragon Princes; provided you're getting at least two of your three FP, WL, or PG into a single combat, they should murderize most units fairly easily - and if they don't, your unit selection is better at grinding (as much as any HE list can...) than many other lists that rely on WTFBBQ-striking power to break units on the first round. Plus having the Frostheart is a more threatening presence than a small units of heavy cavalry. That said, having a DP unit to do support charges with would synergize very well with the core concept.

Try playing a few games to see how it goes before making such a big change; I really like what you've got - it's probably closest to my own design philosophy / gameplay style of any list yet posted.
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower

#35 Post by Caradryal »

Serenity wrote:Versatility, to me, is key to having an effective Magic Phase with the Loremaster. That, and getting a lot of cheap, but useful, spells through.

For those reasons, I'd go with High Magic. The +1 makes it just that bit less likely that your opponent can throw less dice than you and still reliably get the dispel off, and adding a new spell seems more effective than duplicating choices you already had: that'd make you more predictable, and that's never a good thing. I'm not sure you need another Magic Missile, but Drain Magic is (still) awesome.

Not to mention the Lore Attribute will definitely force people to dispel if you have your Mage in the Phoenix Guard later in the game...
Sounds sensible to me. The choice of both soul quench and drain magic is a good one and leaves options if I come up against ethereal heavy VC armies. The +2 gives an excellent chance of getting both of them off on 2 dice as well.

The mage is very unlikely to be in the p guard though as he has no protection. He'll probably be sat with an archer unit in most games.
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower

#36 Post by Caradryal »

Macharius wrote:I'm not sure you need to exchange the Frostheart for a unit of Dragon Princes; provided you're getting at least two of your three FP, WL, or PG into a single combat, they should murderize most units fairly easily - and if they don't, your unit selection is better at grinding (as much as any HE list can...) than many other lists that rely on WTFBBQ-striking power to break units on the first round. Plus having the Frostheart is a more threatening presence than a small units of heavy cavalry. That said, having a DP unit to do support charges with would synergize very well with the core concept.

Try playing a few games to see how it goes before making such a big change; I really like what you've got - it's probably closest to my own design philosophy / gameplay style of any list yet posted.
Good points, I will probably throw in the F Phoenix for the first games and see how it goes. The D Prince idea is there as a reserve. It always nice to have at least one flyer in a list too for those armies that really suffer against flyers.
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower

#37 Post by Serenity »

Hi Caradryal,

Have you gotten to play a battle with this list yet? Or any idea when your first will be?

I'm very curious how it works for you as mine is rather similar. :)
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower

#38 Post by Caradryal »

Hey Serenity

Unfortunately not mate, I'm working away until September but I do have two weeks at home in July and I'm hoping to squeeze a few games in then. I'm itching to try it out! :D
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower

#39 Post by Delaqure »

Very interesting list. I have been trying to take a look at the elven histories more and getting a better sense of where they have come from. I am famliar with the Nagaryth issues. However please help me with the following questions.

1. Just looking at the army, how do the units themselves make it a Nagaryth army? It seems like the core should scream Nagaryth, but all you have is archers and the rest are from Ellyrion. Presundering wouldn't Nagaryth have Silver Helms?
When did the Phoenix Guard become the guardians of the flame? Was that before or after the sundering?

Just looking at the army it seems like most of it is from somewhere else besides Nagaryth. Why not consider dropping the Phoenix Guard and adding a unit of Silver Helms and putting the BSB in there? You could give him a 1+ save and the Star Lance.

2. How do you intend to model and paint this army to match a presundering scheme?
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower

#40 Post by Caradryal »

Delaqure wrote:Very interesting list. I have been trying to take a look at the elven histories more and getting a better sense of where they have come from. I am famliar with the Nagaryth issues. However please help me with the following questions.

1. Just looking at the army, how do the units themselves make it a Nagaryth army? It seems like the core should scream Nagaryth, but all you have is archers and the rest are from Ellyrion. Presundering wouldn't Nagaryth have Silver Helms?
When did the Phoenix Guard become the guardians of the flame? Was that before or after the sundering?

Just looking at the army it seems like most of it is from somewhere else besides Nagaryth. Why not consider dropping the Phoenix Guard and adding a unit of Silver Helms and putting the BSB in there? You could give him a 1+ save and the Star Lance.

You are indeed correct on several issues here mate but I'm not overly concerned about the when and where of certain units. Don't get me wrong here I do enjoy the high elf lore but I'm not going to let the lore dictate which units I do or don't take. The list is designed to be competitive rather than fluffy :)

As for the BSB this would be a strong idea but I'm trying too stay well away from heavy cavalry buses with this list and make it more of a bowline type idea.
Delaqure wrote:2. How do you intend to model and paint this army to match a presundering scheme?
Another good question. The paint scheme will largely be black maybe using the gem's and banners to set it off. I will probably also use a snow base scheme too giving me a chance to model ice and icicles etc.

I'd really like to incorporate the cults of excess into the scheme but I'm not entirely sure how (I may have to read the Malekith book again :lol: ). The shadow warrior parts may come in useful for building Reaver's and I have been considering utilising dark elf warrior bits or black guard bits to make the Phoenix guard. Essentially use their rules but not the models. The white lions I have no idea on the White Lions as yet but I feel I may have to convert them somewhat too.

I will have to play this list out somewhat before I settle on it. Whether the loremaster works or not is key, I may miss the Lvl 4 too much as I've never left home without one before. I do have a back up list that uses a Lvl 4 and drops the scroll caddy but I really want to test the loremaster first.

Sorry if these weren't the answer's you were looking for

Thanks for the comments and any suggestion's on the above would be appreciated :D

Caradryal
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower

#41 Post by Elithmar »

Is UB an option for list testing?
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower

#42 Post by Caradryal »

Not while I'm here I'm afraid mate :(

The net connection is poor at best and I don't have my rulebooks etc with me anyway.
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower

#43 Post by Caradryal »

Slight change to the loremaster's equipment which I've adapted in the original post.

Loremaster
The Book of Hoerth, Talisman of Preservation

to

Loremaster
The Book of Hoerth, Armour of Silvered Steel

As he will be travelling with the white lions now one of my priority spells will be Earth Blood on the lions and this will give the loremaster a nice 2+/ 5++ save assuming I don't meet flaming attacks.

I consider this to be far better protection than 5+/4++ and quashes some of my concerns regarding keeping him alive.
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower

#44 Post by Ferny »

Caradryal wrote:Whether the loremaster works or not is key, I may miss the Lvl 4 too much as I've never left home without one before. I do have a back up list that uses a Lvl 4 and drops the scroll caddy but I really want to test the loremaster first.
Caradryal
That's where I'm at now - does he work or do I need to revert to Lv4.

I'm currently kitted with Shield fo Myrwyrm, sword of might, cloak of beards for 3x re-rollable S5 attacks, 4+/4++. Possibly 2+ and hope to cast earthblood etc might be better, given that I view him as mage first and noble very much last, so survivability trumps combat output.
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower

#45 Post by Caradryal »

Ferny wrote:That's where I'm at now - does he work or do I need to revert to Lv4.

I'm currently kitted with Shield fo Myrwyrm, sword of might, cloak of beards for 3x re-rollable S5 attacks, 4+/4++. Possibly 2+ and hope to cast earthblood etc might be better, given that I view him as mage first and noble very much last, so survivability trumps combat output.
Decent setup just remember that you will lose the parry save if flanked and if picked out by artillery fire. As for worrying about combat output I don't think losing a point of strength is a problem at all the reroll's should compensate for that nicely :)
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower

#46 Post by Ferny »

Yeah, the way I see it, you get a cheap 4++ (albeit with some limitations) with the shield, plus a bonus +1AS, and the magic weapon is just a tax you have to pay for the cheap ward. My cheaper version would be shrieking blade, so you essentially get a 4++ shield which causes fear for 25pts, and 3xS4 re-rollable attacks, which I think is a decent defensive option for a mage. The extra +1S and anti-dwarf options for +20pts are perhaps a little extravagent...

It's an insurance against not getting earthblood off successfully, but in theory 2+/5++ might well be better. I think they're probably all viable, but it'll be interesting to see how it plays out rather than just online theoryhammering, which is what I think we're both mostly up to until we can get some more games in :).
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower

#47 Post by Chracian »

I played against skaven earlier this week and got plagued and a miscast on my loremaster - so it's a straight up 4++ for me. 2+/5++ regen is generally better but you have to spend two PD each turn to get it, and it's not guaranteed. Plus, my loremaster is with phoenix guard, lessening the useful of the unit regen.
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Caradryal
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower

#48 Post by Caradryal »

Chracian wrote:I played against skaven earlier this week and got plagued and a miscast on my loremaster - so it's a straight up 4++ for me. 2+/5++ regen is generally better but you have to spend two PD each turn to get it, and it's not guaranteed. Plus, my loremaster is with phoenix guard, lessening the useful of the unit regen.
Yeah I agree in your list the 4++ is the clear winner but my loremaster is rolling with the white lions and the banner of the world dragon. This should negate the need for Earth blood casts unless he is going to see combat.
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower

#49 Post by Caradryal »

Well it's been a long time coming but I finally managed to get my first game in with the new list :)

Date played - 10/7/13

Ogre List

Slaughtermaster (Lore of the Great Maw) Lvl 4, Fencers Blades, Ironfist, Glittering Scales, Dispel Scroll
Butcher (Lore of Heavens) Hellheart
Bruiser BSB, Heavy Armour, Enchanted Shield, Rock Eye
7 Ironguts FC, Standard of Discipline, Look-out-Gnoblar
8 Ogre Bulls FC, Look-out-Gnoblar, Ironfists
4 Mournfang Cavalry SB, Musician, Heavy Armour, Ironfists, Dragonhide Banner
3 Sabretusks
6 Leadbelchers Musician
Gorger
Ironblaster
Stonehorn

We rolled for spells and got

Slaughtermaster - Spinemarrow, Bonecrusher, Toothcracker, Trollguts
Butcher - Iceshard Blizzard
Mage - Drain magic

Deployment after Vanguard
Image
Turn 1 - Ogres
Image
Ironblaster charges right reavers who flee. Sabretusk declares on them forcing another flee. Ironblaster redirects to centre reavers who S&S with a 19 needed, 1w sneaks through :D. Ironblaster falls short by 1. Mournfangs push forward on my right, the stone horn and ogre units push forward at a terrifying pace. The leadbelchers are blocked by the ironblaster.

Magic 7-5
Bubble Toothcracker goes through irresistably and he rolls a 10 for the miscast result leaving him with just Trollguts remaining.

The leadbelchers drop 2 reavers from the centre unit who pass their panic test due to the BSB's presence and the
Stonehorn rider missed the phoenix with his harpoon launcher.

Turn 1 - HE
Image
I had a decision to make here as I didn't want the stonehorn charging the loremaster's unit. The lions couldn't charge the stonehorn along without clipping the sabretusk so after much deliberation I decided to charge both. He held with both to prevent me maximising on the stonehorn and probably hoping the Toothcracker would save him. I required a 7 to make it in and I rolled a 6 :S. I was going to have to sacrifice some reavers here. I sacrificed the unit of 3 by reforming them into a file and blocking both the guts and the stonehorn. The fleeing reavers rallied and positoned themselves to bait the mournfangs.

Magic 4-3
He used the hellheart but luckily for me didn't make the required distance.
Spirit leech goes through irresistably on 3 dice and knocks a wound of the butcher. The resulting miscast kills a white lion and drains the remaining dice.

Some terrible rolling sees me only drop 1 of the Ogre bulls with my combined firepower.

Turn 2 - Ogres
Image
The stonehorn declared a charge on the reavers blocking who hold and the guts decide to charge them too. The Ogre bulls declared a charge on the phoenix guard who hold hoping their ward saves will stop most of the impact damage. sabretusk declares a charge on rbt and makes it in but the bulls charge falls short. The gorger turned up behind my sisters to the south.

Magic 8-8
A six dice attempt at a bubble trollguts was stopped as was an attempt at iceshard blizzard on the phoenix guard.
He announced he was firing the ironblaster at the phoenix and my heart was in my mouth when he rolled a 6 for multiple wounds. Thankfully lady luck was on my side and I rolled a 6 for his ward save!. Phew! The leadbelchers dropped 2 phoenix guard with their huge weight of fire.

The stonehorns impact hits smashed through the 3 reavers and the sabretusk ripped apart both the rbt crew after they fluffed their attacks.

Turn 2- HE
Image
I had to be proactive here and take a risk before i ate some big charges. The Phoenix guard declared a charge on the ogre bulls who elected to hold fancying their chances. The white lions charged the blocking sabretusk and the phoenix declared a charge on the stonehorn to stop it crashing into the lions next turn.

Magic 9-6
I started with a 2 dice miasma on the Bulls which was dispelled and i followed with a 3 dice iceshard blizzard on them which was dispelled with his remaining dice. I used the remaining four to cast Wildform on the P guard which drew his scroll.

The left bolt thrower put a bolt through the chest of the the gorger knocking him down to a single wound and the right missed the mournfangs. The archers knocked a wound off the mournfangs and a couple off the ironguts. The reavers dropped the right sabre and the other reavers finished off the wounded gut. The sisters dropped another Irongut.

In CC the lions made short work of the sabre and reformed to face the centre. The Frostheart dealt 2 wounds the stonehorn and took one back in turn but it decided to stick around. The Phoenix guard dealt four wounds receiving one in return but couldn't break the Bulls.

Turn 3 - Ogres
Image
The mournfangs declared a charge on the right RBT and the Gorger charged the the other. The Guts charged the phoenix's flank and the Ironblaster charged the flank of the phoenix guard. The leadbelchers moved to spray the right hand reaver unit with their cannons.

Magic 5-4
An attempt at a bubble Trollguts didn't make the casting roll.

The leadbelchers scored 6 wounds on the reavers wiping out the whole unit.

The RBT scored the last wound on the gorger and the mournfangs ran over the other. They elected to overun and crashed into the BSB's unit. Impact hits dropped a P guard and they directed their attacks against the Bulls. 8 wounds were scored but incredibly my opponant made 6 parry saves!! 4 more P guard fell to the return hits but thankfully decided to stick around. The phoenix knocked 2 wounds off the ironguts and took a further 2 in return but held on the break test.

Turn 3 - HE
Image
The BSB drank his potion of Strength and the lions declared a charge on the Ironguts. I pivoted the archers to bring them into range on the leadbelchers.

Magic 9-6
I started with a 4 dice wildform on the phoenix guard and scored 22 thanks to the the book. He thought about this for a while and in the end decided to let it through fearing worse on the guts. Attempts at miasma and iceshard on the guts were dispelled.

Shooting knocked 4 wounds off the leadbelchers.

In CC we started with the combat involving the mournfangs. The BSB knocked a wound off and rather predictably the unit was crushed in return. The Phoenix Guard did rather better this round and did 11 wounds to the ogre unit while receiving only 2 in return. Neither the Bulls or Ironblaster could achieve a rerollable snake eyes and the P guard ran down the Bulls. The combined force of the lions and the phoenix was too much for the Ironguts who broke and ran. I decided to pursue with both the lions and the Phoenix and the Guts were run down along with his remaining characters.

Turn 4 - Ogres
Image
The Ironblaster continued to flee while the Stonehorn rallied. The Sabre and Mournfangs positioned themselves for turn 5 charges. The Leadbelchers turned to face the weaked Pheonix.

The leadbelchers scored 5 hits on the phoenix but failed to wound.

Turn 4 - HE
Image
The white lions charged the stonehorn and lost 2 of their number to the stand and shoot.

Magic 7-3
I cast wildform on the p guard with 4 dice and iceshard blizzard went irristably on the leadbelchers.

Shooting removed the sabretusk but could not penetrate the mournfangs armour. 1 more wound was chipped off the belchers by the reavers.

The lions finished off the stonehorn and refromed to face the centre.

Turn 5 - Ogres
Image
The Mournfangs charged the Pheonix and the Belchers backed off from the P Guard. The Ironblaster rallied this time.
The leadbelchers dropped a P guard and the Phoenix broke from the merciless charge of the mournfangs. The mournfangs then proceeded to overrun into my mages bunker.

Turn 5 - HE
Image
The P guard declared a charge on the leadbelchers who elected to flee and save their points. My opponant then proceeded to roll snake eyes for the flee and they were run down! :O The Phoenix rallied and turned to face the mournfangs again. The reavers moved to fire at the ironblaster and managed to wound it once.
The mournfangs ran over the mages unit.

Turn 6 - Ogres
Image
The mournfangs charged the Pheonix again. The Ironblaster attempted to grapeshot the P Guard and missfired. The Phoenix dropped a mournfang but finally lost its last wound.

My opponent decided to call the game here as he was staring down the barrel of the White lions and the P guard and didn't stand much chance of surviving.

Result : HE Victory!
Last edited by Caradryal on Sun Jul 28, 2013 6:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower - First Bat Rep up!

#50 Post by Caradryal »

After thoughts on the lists performance.

Loremaster - He didn't manage to unleash his full repertoire of spells in this game and suffered a miscast losing his wizard levels. However he did force some hard choices on my opponent's dispel selections and ended up casting a game breaking wild form on the Phoenix Guard. The Book of Hoerth is excellent and makes him a far more dangerous caster. Pleased overall with his performance.

BSB - Didn't get a lot of chances to fire with his reaver bow and some poor positioning on the flank by myself allowed the Mournfangs to crush his unit. He also somewhat fluffed his attack in CC and only caused 1w on a Mournfang despite being Str 9. Jury is still out here.

Mage - Didn't really get to do anything here, mostly due to the Slaughtermaster's early miscast the scroll wasn't required. He will stay for now. I rolled walk between worlds on spell selection and I really wish I'd kept it. I could've avoided the mournfangs with either the BSB's or the mage's units.... :roll:

Archers - Poor this game to be honest. I think I expected a little too much from elven shooting. The really could do with some magical assistance which the Loremaster just isn't able to provide. An Archmage with either Shadow or High magic would probably help a lot more. Food for thought.

Reavers - Performed fairly well, could've been better and my Inexperience using them was evident. I have always used eagles as redirectors in the past. I did really enjoy using them though and they were a constant thorn in the side for my opponent even drawing fire off my more expensive units. These guys are definitely staying :D

Phoenix Guard - Well what can I say here. Magnificent! They did what I wanted them too and more. Their high LD kept them in the fight when the dice were against them and when buffed by wildform they were incredible. They took the points for the Bulls and the Leadbelchers and their fear abilty was great to have against a fear causing army.

White Lions - Anchored a flank along with the Pheonix and slaughtered the Ironguts. Still love these guys even without the 7th edition re-rolls. The Banner was useful too stopping the Slaughtermaster scoring some kills.

Eagle Claws - Didn't provide the ranged threat I was hoping for and I think like the Archers they could use a little magical assistance. Not sure on these as3 of them is almost another Frostheart.

Frostheart Phoenix - Glad I chose this guy over the Flamespyre. He is extremely tough and provides an essential role in keeping big tough units locked down and away from my firebase. Now how do I squeeze in another? ....... :twisted:

Sister's - Decent ranged threat, Why they have no musician option I really don't know. They would be a no brainer choice for me if they had that option. For now they stay as I want to see how they perform against the forces of destruction.

All in all not a bad first game but I definitely made some mistakes. Positioning in deployment was the biggest here I feel, I really didn't account for how fast Ogre's are, mostly due to this being my 3rd ever game against them.

I have a lot to think about in regards to the list, The Loremaster performed well but I'm not sure how well the rest of the Shooty type list synergises with him. Perhaps a Silver helm core and a mounted BSB would gel better than archers which really need magical support to be anywhere near dangerous.

Looking forward to peoples reactions and comments regarding the game

Caradryal
Last edited by Caradryal on Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower - First Bat Rep up!

#51 Post by Iluvatar »

Nice report, thanks for posting it in detail, including the conclusion and rating of your units! And good job on the win!

I totally agree on the Loremaster: with the Book, he can cast a few interesting spells that put pressure on an opponent. Spam magic missiles early, spirit leech someone, and when an important combat comes, 3 or 4 buffs that can change the issue of a fight. Which can be just as game changing as the "big" spells, since it's rare that your opponent can dispel all!
For the reavers, PG, WL and Frostheart, I agree with you. All of these units are great value if used properly!
Also not that the reavers can be really be used in CC in favorable conditions. I've recently flank-charged a IB with great success: on the flank, the rhinox doesn't fight, and you start with +2 combat res. That can prevent it from shooting a turn, and even break it if it's not in BSB range...

As for the shooting, I think you suffer from your target choices. On your turn 1, I think you really should have aimed at the Sabretusks with archers: kill those and in your T2 you have a combined WL/Phenix charge on the stonehorn or Guts, and your Eagle Claws survive as well.
If the Sabretusks are gone, Eagle claws should focus on the IB, Mournfangs or Leadbelchers, I believe (except in T2, where they need to kill the Gorger for self protection). But, really, all on the same target if possible, to soften it enough for an easy pick later.
Also, consider that all your shooting will contribute much more against a chaff heavy army. If you don't have enough, those will be able to block the PG/WL while handling the rest of your army...

Anyway, you did win the game, so all of that is probably nit-picking!
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower - First Bat Rep up!

#52 Post by Caradryal »

Thanks :)
Iluvatar wrote:totally agree on the Loremaster: with the Book, he can cast a few interesting spells that put pressure on an opponent. Spam magic missiles early, spirit leech someone, and when an important combat comes, 3 or 4 buffs that can change the issue of a fight. Which can be just as game changing as the "big" spells, since it's rare that your opponent can dispel all!
My thoughts exactly, this was proved in this game when he dropped that gamebreaking wild form on the Phoenix Guard and my opponent had a big decision to make.
Iluvatar wrote:For the reavers, PG, WL and Frostheart, I agree with you. All of these units are great value if used properly!
Also not that the reavers can be really be used in CC in favorable conditions. I've recently flank-charged a IB with great success: on the flank, the rhinox doesn't fight, and you start with +2 combat res. That can prevent it from shooting a turn, and even break it if it's not in BSB range...
I didn't consider this, I had a lot of opportunities to make this charge as well. That the Rhinox couldn't fight didn't even occur to me. Thanks for the great tip! I still have a huge amount to learn with these guys and I think their a lot of potential to unlock once I figure their strength's and weaknesses.
Iluvatar wrote:As for the shooting, I think you suffer from your target choices. On your turn 1, I think you really should have aimed at the Sabretusks with archers: kill those and in your T2 you have a combined WL/Phenix charge on the stonehorn or Guts, and your Eagle Claws survive as well.
If the Sabretusks are gone, Eagle claws should focus on the IB, Mournfangs or Leadbelchers, I believe (except in T2, where they need to kill the Gorger for self protection). But, really, all on the same target if possible, to soften it enough for an easy pick later.
Also, consider that all your shooting will contribute much more against a chaff heavy army. If you don't have enough, those will be able to block the PG/WL while handling the rest of your army...
Excellent points here, I was feeling that dropping an archer units worth of fire power on a single tusk would be a waste. I think I went into this game seriously overestimating the power of an Elven archer :oops: . I definitely need to concentrate the Eagle Claws firepower and also position them slightly better. I still can't help feeling that a spell like the withering would make my combined firepower a lot more dangerous.
Iluvatar wrote:Anyway, you did win the game, so all of that is probably nit-picking!
Not at all! I did win the game indeed but I also made several glaring errors in my opinion. You raised some fantastic points there and I'm grateful.

My Thanks :D I have a lot to consider.
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower - First Bat Rep up!

#53 Post by Iluvatar »

Glad I could help!
About the archery "waste" on Sabretusks - I started to realize this when reading blogs here: the first war to be won is the chaff war, since it gives board control, and it can turn the next war ("big" units) to one side or the other. Tethlis showed this very well in his blog, especially since he has an infantry-based force similar to yours!

I realize I forgot another helpful tip when you flank charge an iron blaster with Reavers: you have all 5 reavers in base contact, which means that until he kills one, he cannot reform, and you stay in his flank. :wink:
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower - First Bat Rep up!

#54 Post by Caradryal »

Iluvatar wrote:Glad I could help!
About the archery "waste" on Sabretusks - I started to realize this when reading blogs here: the first war to be won is the chaff war, since it gives board control, and it can turn the next war ("big" units) to one side or the other. Tethlis showed this very well in his blog, especially since he has an infantry-based force similar to yours!
I will have to have a look at Tethlis's blog, I'm always looking for new ideas. The chaff will definitely be my archers first targets next game, I vastly overestimated their potency here.
Iluvatar wrote:I realize I forgot another helpful tip when you flank charge an iron blaster with Reavers: you have all 5 reavers in base contact, which means that until he kills one, he cannot reform, and you stay in his flank. :wink:
Good point! I'm not sure how long it'll take an Ogre to drop at least 1 Reaver though :P
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower - First Bat Rep up!

#55 Post by Jimmy »

Thanks for sharing the batrep, congrats on the win.

Just remember in future to think a turn or two ahead in regards to your opponents charges and overruns and what he will clip. :wink:
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower - First Bat Rep up!

#56 Post by Caradryal »

Thanks Jimmy :D

Your right my forward planning was awful in this game. Think it boils down to my time away from the game and the new army style. More practice required!
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower - First Bat Rep up!

#57 Post by Caradryal »

Hey folks!

I've been thinking about slight adaptations to my list that I could try out in the future. I'm sticking with the loremaster list for now but I came up with the following idea and I wondered what peoples thoughts were on it.

Lord

Archmage (Lore of Shadow)
The Book of Hoerth, Talisman of Preservation

Hero

Noble
BSB, Heavy Armour, Reaver Bow, Potion of Strength, Crown of Atrazar, GW

Core

1 x 15 Archers (BSB Here)
Musician

1 x 17 Archers (Archmage here)
Musician

3 x 5 Ellyrion Reavers
Bows, Musician

Special

20 Phoenix Guard
FC, Razor Standard

21 White Lions
FC, Banner of The World Dragon

5 Shadow Warriors

5 Shadow Warriors

Rare

3 x Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower

Frostheart Phoenix

6 x Sisters of Avelorn

2500 pts

Like I say this is not a replacement for my working list as it stands. That needs a lot more trialling before I can make a decision, however I do like this adaptation and I wondered what peoples thoughts on it would be.

My thoughts

1) The Archmage brings a smaller arsenal to the table than the loremaster but he does benefit from +4 to cast and dispel which may prove so be a game winner.
2) The lore of shadow as we all know can be deadly in the hands of the High elves. It's not a lore I used under 7th as I felt it guided me toward a cookie cutter HE build. This list is far from a staple HE list though so I'm feeling better about the lore. It also makes up for losing some of the utility of the loremaster's spells by having useful ones such as the withering, enfeebling foe and mindrazor.
3) I dropped the scroll caddy in this list in favour of extra firepower. The lack of scroll is not something I condone but the Level 4 with the book still provides a decent level of magical defence.
4) The shadow warriors have been included as harassment for the enemy, especially when it comes to their war machines. It also forces them to deploy units on the flank so the shadow warriors can't get amongst their back line too early. Their bow shots will also become somewhat more dangerous if I can get the withering off on the enemies units.

The first question I'd like to propose is on the shadow warriors. Is 2 units over kill? Would I be better off with a 4th bolt thrower or more sisters in place of the second unit. Would you take the shadow warriors?

Thanks for reading

As always C&C is welcome and appreciated

Caradryal
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower - List Idea

#58 Post by Elithmar »

It looks good but I think two units of sisters and one of shadow warriors would be better than the other way around. I don't think six sisters are enough to reliably get a wound to take away regen. and S4 shots are better than S3.
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower - List Idea

#59 Post by Caradryal »

Yeah in hindsight I think your probably right Eli.

My thoughts were to harass/distract enemies as they close on my lines but in hindsight I think your probably right there mate. I'd have to be pretty lucky to wound some of the higher toughness monsters with 6 str 4 shots.
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Re: The Warlock of the Black Tower - List Idea

#60 Post by Caradryal »

Well I think its about time to get my blog up and running again. I'm now home after spending a considerable amount of time away so I should be able to get back into the swing of things :)

Well having all that time away to think about it and a few games here and there with the shooty type list I've decided it's not really for me. All throughout the 7th book I really wanted to make use of our cavalry and my current list has none of this. So I have deceided I am going to try out a variation of the original Cavstar list I came up with.

This is the list I have drafted up.


Lords

Prince
Giant blade, Dragon Armour, Enchanted Shield, Barded Steed, Dawnstone,

Archmage (High Magic)
Lvl 4, Dispel Scroll, Elven Steed

Heroes

Noble
BSB, Star Lance, Heavy Armour, Shield, Barded Steed, Golden Crown of Atrazar, GW

Core

3 x 5 Reavers
Bows, Musician

1 x 5 Reavers
Musician

5 Silver Helms
Shields, Musician

5 Silver Helms
Shields, Musician

Special

2 x Tiranoc Chariots

12 Dragon Princes
FC, Banner of the World Dragon, Ogre Blade, Charmed Shield

18 x White Lions
SB, Musician, Banner of Swiftness

Rare

Frostheart Phoenix

Great Eagle

2499 pts

As you can see it's somewhat similar to the Cavstar I originally had in mind but with a few notable changes which are as follows,

1) Dropped the talisman on the Archmage. Seemed a pointless addition with him in the second rank. As it is he's pretty much immune to death snipes etc due to the banner.
2) Dropped the Book of Hoerth. As the archmage is using High magic he gains the benefits of Lileath's blessing so the book isn't needed as much. Also this allows me to take a scroll to stop the big nasty spells from destroying my bus.
3) Dropped the core archers for more reavers and silver helms. I wanted to create a fast moving hard hitting list and the stationary firebase didn't really fit the plan.
4) Gave the Drakemaster the Ogre blade and charmed shield to give the bus more grinding power.
5) Dropped the Eagle Claw's for two Tiranoc Chariots. Not sure if this is a good idea yet but I wanted the fast moving hard hitting theme to continue.

The big question i have at the moment is do I use High magic to boost the bus's ward etc or do I make the switch to life? Both options have thier merits and I'm very undecided on this.

Any comments and thoughts are as always very much appreciated.
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