Ulthuan

Ulthuan, Home of the Asur
It is currently Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:47 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1630 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 ... 55  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:37 pm 
Offline
9th Age Moderator

Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:03 pm
Posts: 1906
I generally agree with your assessments, although can't comment much on CDs - I've fought them a couple of times but hadn't read the book and was pretty much blind, so less tactics more reactive.

But with dwarves, I would say that the 'copter(s) is/are #1 must kill - see soliths blog for what happens if you don't. Luckily we have the tools to do so. Then I think flame cannons and organ guns.

_________________
The 9th Age: Alumni

Former Roles: Advisory Board, HR, Moderator and Highborn Elves Army Support


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:10 am 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
Yeah, there`s a lot who needs to be killed in the Dwarf book from our perspective...

I`m playing CD tonight and I realize I might have a bit of a problem: the only thing with a fireward is the BSB (which means that I should maybe re-evaluate the item layout as the Prince + BSB can easily swap as this won`t bring me above item allowance in lords anyways). This is a problem that I haven`t really realized until now - I don`t face that many tough things with firewards.

The question is, in general, is the prince better off with a fireward than the BSB?

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:14 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:39 pm
Posts: 2062
Location: Cathy
Curu Olannon wrote:
Yeah, there`s a lot who needs to be killed in the Dwarf book from our perspective...

I`m playing CD tonight and I realize I might have a bit of a problem: the only thing with a fireward is the BSB (which means that I should maybe re-evaluate the item layout as the Prince + BSB can easily swap as this won`t bring me above item allowance in lords anyways). This is a problem that I haven`t really realized until now - I don`t face that many tough things with firewards.

The question is, in general, is the prince better off with a fireward than the BSB?


Why not swap items around?
Give the prince hte dragonhelm
Give the BSB the enchanted Shield and upgrade his heavyarmour to dragon armour. This give both you General and BSB 2++ against fire.

_________________
ETC WHFB Team Singapore
2014 - Chaos Dwarfs & Most Favoured Enemy
2015 - High Elves & Top HE

T9A
Highborn Elves - Army Book Committee
Balancing Board
Highborn Elves - ex-Army Support


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:25 am 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
I can`t give the Prince fireward: if I want him to take Dragonhelm and equip him with a normal shield, that`s +8 points (which puts me 1 point over the Lord allowance). This explains why the equipment is the way it is. In my previous drafts I have forgotten to include the shield on the BSB as well, which puts the list up +2 points, for 2398 in total (166 for BSB instead of 164). I`m wary of putting the BSB into a K`daii on his own as he only has 2 wounds and the K`daii usually gets a wound through per turn because of its amazing damage output. An alternative, if he even fields a K`daii, is to spend a unit of Reavers to get a flank charge. Flank + charge + BSB and Star Lance should (hopefully) be enough to kill it in a turn or two due to unstable.

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:47 am
Posts: 3550
Location: PA, USA
In your last game, why did you deploy the SHs wide? Was it purely to avoid cannon casualties?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:15 pm 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
John Rainbow wrote:
In your last game, why did you deploy the SHs wide? Was it purely to avoid cannon casualties?


Yes. I placed the characters so that targeting them would give him one rank only. Silver Helms are bad but this psychological impact is big, in my experience. Once in a while that LoS roll fails (see my last CD game for example) and when that happens, it hurts.

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:12 pm 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
.::. Battle Report - 2400 vs Chaos Dwarfs (ETC comp) .::.

My list:
Prince on Barded Steed, Heavy Armour, Enchanted Shield, Giant Blade, Dawnstone = 263
Loremaster, Book of Hoeth, Talisman of Preservation = 330
Noble BSB on Barded Steed, Star Lance, Dragonhelm, Golden Crown of Atrazar, Heavy Armour, Shield = 166
Mage, scroll = 110
Characters = 869

5 Reavers, bows & musician = 95
5 Reavers, bows & musician = 95
8 Silver Helms, FC = 214
19 Archers, musician = 200
Core = 604

20 White Lions, FC, BOTWD = 340
20 PG, FC, Razor Standard = 375
Special = 715

3 RBT = 210
Rare = 210

Army Total = 2398

His list:

Hashut Sorc-prophet on Bale Taurus, Charmed Shield, 4++
BSB, Luckstone, GW
L1 Fire
Khan on Wolf

27 IG FC GW
30 Hobgoblins, bows, FC

Iron Daemon
Deathshrieker

K`daii
Hellcannon

// Pre-battle thoughts and deployment //

I wanted Archers to have a chance at shooting the Deathshrieker. I wanted cavalry to face Hellcannon and Lions + PG to control the center. I didn`t know how to handle the K`daii but was assuming my Reavers could prove their worth here. A third redirector surely would`ve helped here!

Deployment was ok but my opponent got the better of it: the map provided lots of cover for him and he was easily able to hide the Deathshrieker. Furthermore, the K`daii got a very advantageous position and I knew from the start that containing it while continuing with my plan would be hard.

Image

Magic saw him roll up Hatred, Toughness-spell, Ashstorm and Flames of Azgorh. His fire mage took Fireball, my Heavens guy took Blizzard.

Despite his +1 I managed to grab first turn ;)

// HE T1 //

Cavalry moved up, well outside of the likely charge of the Hellcannon. The White Lions advanced full speed and the Phoenix Guard held back, taking care to stay out of anything resembling a likely charge from the Destroyer. Reavers moved to shoot Khan and reformed to 3+2 in case he`d survive and charge. Other Reavers moved to a more central position.

Magic saw his fear of Searing Doom letting me land 3 spells: Spirit Leech on BSB (no effect, LD10 v LD10), double Blizzard on Hellcannon.

Shooting saw an RBT pierce the Destroyer with a single bolt for 1W, while the Reavers understood the danger of the situation and added another. Other Reavers managed a wound on the Khan. Not bad for a start!

Image

// CD T1 //

Iron Daemon moves to block the Helms from charging the Hellcannon. Destroyer and Taurus move up. Khan blocks reavers. Magic sees him land an IF Ashstorm on the Silver Helms! I was really hoping to be able to dispel this, but alas it was not to be. The resulting miscast drained his dice but had no other effects.

Shooting saw the Iron Daemon open up with 10 shots on the Helms. He was at short range and only needing 4+ to hit, he killed off 4 of them. I passed panic, and although I lost LoS I don`t think my opponent realized this (either that, or he was scared of Lions): the Hellcannon failed to shoot and the Deathshrieker targeted my WL, combining with the Hobgoblins to kill 4 or 5 (I failed all bar 2 saving throws).

Image

// HE T2 //

Lions flank charge the Iron Daemon: given their position, my ashstormed cavalry and the K`daii + Taurus having very good positions, I had to act. As it wasn`t hellbound I wouldn`t get 2++ from BOTWD, however I also would be wounding it on 5s. Cavalry reformed, BSB facing center in case the K`daii tried anything funny, Prince barely within charge arc of the Hellcannon. BSB failed dangerous terrain but Crown saved it, 1 Helm died. Reavers charged Khan.

Magic saw my opponent prioritize dispelling Wyssan`s. This opened up for Miasma on the Taurus (-3M), which allowed me to swap the Loremaster for the mage. This allowed me to barely get front arc to the Fire Wizard near the Deathshrieker, and I promptly sent a Spirit Leech his way - killing him off! It`s not often you get to utilize Smoke and Mirrors, but this was a play I was very happy with ;)

Shooting saw the RBTs do next to nothing, same with Archers and Reavers. Combat saw Lions put 7W on the Iron Daemon... But its 6+ saved 2! In return, a `6` for Thunderstomp severely reduced my unit. Reavers and Khan failed to do anything.

Image

// CD T2 //

Destroyer charges blocking Reavers, who fail their Terror test and flee! He redirects into PG, who flee as well and he fails to catch me. Hobgoblins rear-charge the Lions. This puts the K`daii 19" away from the BSB, with its flank open. Taurus tries to rear-charge Lions but due to Miasma he falls short. Magic sees my scroll come out and I contain the rest. Shooting sees Hellcannon target Helms but it scatters off: without the Daemonsmith it`s a lot less accurate. Now, the Deathshrieker proceeds to target the PG and this is a misinterpretation of the rules on my opponent`s side: he thought that a fleeing unit having to take a panic test automatically flees further. He kills a couple of PG and is very disappointed when they don`t flee off the table (naturally). It`s been a long time since he last played.

In combat, the Lions put 2W on the ID and this time he fails to save any and the choo-choo train goes down. I get a couple of Hobgoblins as well and he does very little in return. I lose due to static but hold on stubborn and combat reform to face his front, 4-wide with mage in second rank. Reavers kill Khan.

I forgot to take a photo but the arrows explain the major movements
Image

// HE T3 //

BSB charges Destroyer: without LoS it`s disastrous to stand around. Furthermore my scroll is blown and the Lions are dangerously low on models. Even if I fail the charge I won`t be that much worse off than I already was. Prince moves to block Hellcannon and Silver Helms reform to 1-wide to charge past the Hellcannon and into the Deathshrieker in my T4. Luckily both PG and Reavers rally (the PG barely so - I rolled a 10!).

Magic: he prioritizes the Lions so I land Miasma WS (-3) on Destroyer, Iceshard on Destroyer (so he now needs 6`s) AND Spirit Leech on the BSB (no effect this time either). Shooting again does very little. In combat the BSB proves solid and puts a wound on the Destroyer with the Star Lance. Thus he`d have to get a wound back at me to survive: flank + charge + bsb + wound = 4 => pop! He failed to hit, needing 6s and thus the K`daii was no more! BSB overruns to avoid Infernal Guard, I pass dangerous terrain.

The Lions won combat this time around but he held on steadfast LD10.

Image

// CD T3 //

Bale Taurus charges Prince, I pass terror test (yay!) and hold. Magic: the winds are big and I focus on Ashstorm, which is easily dispelled with its 4PD cap. With charging the Prince, his arc is terrible and he can`t really threaten me with his spells. Shooting sees Hellcannon target the BSB, but it scores a misfire and eats up all the crew! The Deathshrieker targets Archers (I`m not sure if he had Line of Sight to the BSB) and kills 7-8 of them, panic passed.

Combat sees me make a pretty huge mistake: I thought the Bale Taurus had a 4++ same as the K`daii, so I targeted the Sorcerer thinking it would be roughly equally hard to kill either and I`d rather see him lose his mage and general. I get one wound through and in return he fails to hurt me. I lose by 1 (charge + flank) but hold. The Lions however lose to his Hatred Hobgoblins and as I fail to make a single save, I lose the last of them and thus also Stubborn. I lose by 1 I think but the Loremaster legs it with the mage: a crucial turn of events as a lot of rolls will see me run off the table (snake eyes I stop before the Prince - 2 => 7 is safe, 8+ off), however I roll a `5` and he + the mage are safe. Phew! He runs after me but rolls very low and fails to catch. Double-phew!

Image

// HE T4 //

Silver Helms charge Deathshrieker. BSB joins 5-strong Reavers. PG march up, Reavers stay outside of IG arc. Archers move up.

Magic sees me land Wyssan`s on the Prince and Miasma WS (-3 again!). I then finish off with IF boosted Shem`s on the Hellcannon: and with its crew gone I score a massive 11 hits which results in its death! Before I get too happy though I roll a dimensional cascade and the Loremaster goes BOOM! In the process, my mage is wounded, Prince is wounded, Taurus is wounded. At this point I realize it has no ward save...

Shooting again does next to nothing and we move to combat: with S8 the Prince promptly puts 4W on the Taurus which dies. He passes his break test. I fail to do anything to his Deathshrieker.

Image

// CD T4 //

Hobgoblins can`t charge Prince because they can`t make the wheel: their poor pursuit led them into a position where the Sorcerer is blocking them. They swift reform instead. Magic sees Ashstorm land on the Prince. Shooting: Hobgoblins kill my mage with throwing knives. Combat: I can`t remember if I hurt him or not but with S4 he isn`t really impressing me anymore. We stay there.

Image

// HE T5 //

Archers try to flank Sorcerer but fail (8+ roll). Reavers + BSB rear-charge Hobgoblins. Other Reavers block IG with PG right behind. Magic: I dispel RiP Hatred on Goblins. Shooting: everything is engaged bar the IG, who lose 1 to the 3 RBT (2 of which were shooting through hard cover at long range). Combat: Prince brings Sorcerer down to 1W. Reavers + BSB win but the gobbos kill 2 Reavers and he holds on steadfast LD10. Silver Helms kill Deathshrieker and reform to face center.

Image

// CD T5 //

IG charge Reavers. Magic sees me dispel Ashstorm, Flames scatter off Helms. Combat sees Prince kill Sorcerer, Reavers + BSB make gobbos break and restrain. I reform everything to face the IG, who beat Reavers and overrun into the PG...

Image

I charge everything into the IG and it`s not pretty. RBTs kill off the last few Gobbos and in combat I force IG to test on snake eyes. They fail and thus the Chaos Dwarfs are wiped out!

Although it was a bloody battle my clean-up at the end netted me well over a thousand points (600 for general, 440 for IG + BSB + bonuses). As I had "only" lost nearly 1000 points myself, it was a 20-0 victory to the High Elves!

// Evaluation //

What an intense game! From T1, the pressure was on. Although Destroyer has a number of weaknesses, my army isn`t really that well suited to handling one. This, combined with the terrible terrain (so much cover and dangerous terrain tests + the lake blocking me from marching) forced my hand earlier than I`d prefer. The IF Ashstorm on T1 sealed the deal and I had to commit into a position I was definitely not comfortable with. In the end, the Loremaster with BoH and sheer luck pulled me through: although it ended up 20-0 I could very well have lost this: with the Taurus making its T2 charge and the Deathshrieker taking out the Prince, I would`ve gotten K`daii + ID + Khan vs losing Prince + WL + Loremaster + mage, AT BEST.

While going up against gunlines in general can lead to nail-biting battles where one or a few number of dice make a big difference, I think this highlights a weakness in my list: my inability to properly protect the Prince + BSB and my need for +1 chaff unit. For this reason, I will consider a new draft where the core is all mounted: 3 units of Reavers and a bigger block of Helms. As far as shooting armies go this is far from the worst and even this one took away my LoS relatively effortlessly.

I rolled a lot of big magic phases in this game. It´s a double-edged sword because your opponent can always dispel that one crucial spell (Wyssans going off in my T2 would`ve ensured the Lions killing off the ID instantly and overrun into the HC, which doesn`t like BOTWD...), but with the BoH Loremaster you can (usually) still get a lot of value out of this situation. I felt he was really ace in this game, a constant pain for my opponent and despite blowing himself up, he ensured the Prince`s survival (two of my to wound rolls were 2s), the destruction of the re-roll scatter-dice wizard and, of course, the Hellcannon.

Also one thing I feel I have to point out that`s impossible to read from the report itself: my opponent hadn`t played a game in quite a long time. As I`m used to playing very active players, most matches are played rather fast, with us just declaring what we need (3s to hit, 2s to wound etc) and rolling the dice. This is part habit, part on purpose as I hate losing out on time at tournaments. However in this game it stressed my opponent out, which was not my intention at all. As the game was on a knife`s edge from T1, I didn`t notice this until we were pretty much done. My apologies, and I hope this won`t repeat itself in a friendly game: when you don`t understand what others are rolling for and just being told what`s going on (e.g. "ID is now dead, please remove it") it`s no fun at all. We`ve all been there and it`s my bad for not taking this into consideration for the game.

Lastly, it felt very good playing against Chaos Dwarfs as it`s an army I`ve recently picked up. It`s very rare that I know an army this well (I did almost lose the game to forgetting the Taurus didn`t have a 4++ though, one LD9 test away!), but knowing exactly what you`re up against most definitely gave me confidence I really needed in the middle of things going on here.

Thanks a lot for reading, I hope you`ll leave a comment :)

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:35 pm 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
New Core draft, in light of recent developments:

13 Silver Helms, Shields, Full Command = 329
5 Reavers, bows, muso = 95
5 Reavers, bows, muso = 95
5 Reavers, bows = 85
Core total = 604 (same as current setup)

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:37 am
Posts: 463
Location: ireland
hi curu,

nice win.

does Taurus fly? just looking at his charge on the prince it looked like he wouldn't be able to make it using just one wheel?

regarding you new core set up, do you feel the lack of archers will hurt you versus other army's light troops dark riders, skinks, reavers, ungors , gyrocopters etc? your bolt throwers will be very busy!

_________________
death is lighter than a feather, duty heavier than a mountain

do an rpg personality test, im from Ireland and I get...

[CENTER]Image[/CENTER


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:25 am 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
The Taurus does indeed fly (otherwise it wouldn`t be a legal charge as you pointed out), which was what presented me with such a big problem in this matchup: S4 autohit on everything in B2B as well as having to re-roll damage that didn`t come from a magical source means it poses a great threat to all of my infantry (who have a hard time hurting the Sorcerer Prophet with his T5 2+/4++ as well). However, had I known that it didn`t have the 4++ I could`ve probably put some more pressure on him with magic (Iceshard and Shem`s).

Combating light troops... Good players keep fast cav outside of the Archers` threatzone and/or make sure they have hard cover from intervening units. Against Skinks they are flat out useless as shown in my most recent Lz report. Vs Gyros I also find them to be useless, the 4+ really ruins it. The RBTs will have enough work to do for sure, but they are better at it and they also fulfil other roles. I doubt I`ll miss the Archers but if I do I can easily re-evaluate my core. To be honest I think what I`ll miss the most is having them stand on a hill and plink away at WMs. This is very situational though and even then, you`re typically looking at 1W per phase (the first turn is usually move + long, so out of 18 archers you get 6 hits. 1W prior to saves. It gets better if you don`t move, but not significantly. There`s also return casualties and good players can frequently hide WMs from these kind of snipes). I think I`ll welcome the third unit of Reavers as I`ve often missed another chaff unit lately

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:27 pm
Posts: 715
Location: Rebuilding Tor Elasor
Dragon fire wrote:
Btw are you aware of the FAQ of golden crown from ETC?.
Q: Does the Golden Crown of Atrazar count as used if the first wounding hit is deflected by the armor save?
A: Yes.
I find it odd. Just came to think about it when I saw the crown on your BSB. Often this would mean that the crown merely protection from death spells early on in the game.


Sorry to kinda hijack the thread Curu but where do you find the ETC Faq? I can only locate the one for 2013 and it doesn't mention the GCoA. I also thought the consensus on this item was that it worked like the Opal amulet. At least that is the conclusion that was reached when it was discussed on Seredain's blog a while back. Sorry again, but that ETC ruling just annoyed me no end. I have never met a player who thought that the crown would be used even if you passed the AS.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:09 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:00 pm
Posts: 137
Here
http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic ... 2ed77c9759
This is the 2014 draft and there has been quite a fuzz regarding how to interpret GCoA.
For the ETC forum see here:
http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=18


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:27 pm
Posts: 715
Location: Rebuilding Tor Elasor
Reading it now, and I have got to say, that forum is putting me more and more off ETC.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:11 pm
Posts: 1018
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
Great reports!

_________________
my MSU army list/battle reports

Nyeave wrote:
Omg it's a parrot chariot - a parriot... :D


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:16 pm 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
@Francis - Dragon fire provide all you need, I trust? I`m not going to turn this thread into an ETC discussion, but suffice is to say that as my aim is to play competitively and ETC is the name of the game in that regard, there`s no other option for me really. Overall I also believe that the ETC rules make for a better game to play than completely uncomped Warhammer, even though there are quite a few things that bothers me. YMMV. In this specific case, I still think the GCoA is a great item and worth taking (I used it yesterday and today in a game which I`ll be typing up a report for later on).

@Dragon fire - thanks for supplying the link in my absence ;)

@Nicene - thank you, another one coming soon, so watch this space!

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:42 pm 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
.::. Battle Report - 2400 vs Dwarfs (ETC comp) .::.

My list:
Prince on Barded Steed, Heavy Armour, Enchanted Shield, Giant Blade, Dawnstone = 263
Loremaster, Book of Hoeth, Talisman of Preservation = 330
Noble BSB on Barded Steed, Star Lance, Dragonhelm, Golden Crown of Atrazar, Heavy Armour, Shield = 166
Mage, scroll = 110
Characters = 869

13 Silver Helms, Shields, Full Command = 329
5 Reavers, bows, muso = 95
5 Reavers, bows, muso = 95
5 Reavers, bows = 85
Core = 604

20 White Lions, FC, BOTWD = 340
20 PG, FC, Razor Standard = 375
Special = 715

3 RBT = 210
Rare = 210

Army Total = 2398

His list:
Runesmith (general), shield, Rune of Stone, Rune of Spellbreaking, Fiery Ring of Tori
Runesmith, shield, Rune of Stone, Rune of Spellbreakingx2
Thane BSB, shield, Master Rune of Grugni

27 Longbeards , GW, FC, Rune of Stoicism
12 Thunderers, shields, veteran

25 Hammerers, FC
Cannon Rune of Forging, Rune of Burning
Cannon Rune of Forging, Stalwart
Gyrocopter, vanguard
Gyrocopter

12 Irondrakes, musician
Flame Cannon, Rune of Forging
Organ Gun, Rune of Accuracy, Rune of Forging.

Total 2398

// Pre-battle thoughts and deployment //

I find this to be a hard matchup. A combination of superior shooting, double-scroll and deadly infantry make this a hard list to engage. To win, I believe such an army needs to be neutralized by precision strikes: i.e. neutralize a critical war machine, chaff away one block while engaging the other etc. What I do not want to have happen with this list is to engage with 2 units in 2 different places without support and with a scroll (or even worse, both!) still intact. Also gyros can be a real pain, so taking care of them would be RBT duty, and magic missiles if I could get some through.

My Heavens L1 tried to roll Comet but failed, I defaulted to Iceshard. He rolled hatred for his characters vs my characters. Deployment went very well and I think I got the better of this: everything was in a perfect position to execute my plan: Lions could march directly across, PG behind, Helms in a wide, flanking manoever and Reavers whereever they`d be needed. The icing on the cake was being able to get the LD10 for Spirit Leech from T1:

Image
I was a little too eager to get started so this shows my reavers having moved

As you can tell from the picture above, I managed to grab first turn!

// HE T1 //

Lions marched up 10", PG stayed put to be out of FC range. Reavers provided hard cover for SH: I didn`t want that Organ Gun to start chipping away at my block. Magic saw him let Spirit Leech through (!!) on the Organ Gun, but even with 1 point over him I couldn`t deal any damage. I think the rest was contained. Shooting saw 3 RBT miss.

Image

// DW T1 //

Gyro charges Reavers. Other Gyro moves up. Irondrakes move to target Lions. Blocks move. Shooting kills a few Lions, cannons fail to kill RBT. Combat sees Reavers put a wound on the gyro. He holds, I reform.

Image

// HE T2 //

White Lions charge Gyro (need 6+, make it). Silver Helms swift reform and flank out. PG move up. Magic sees Spirit Leech again go through, we roll the same and 1 Organ Gun crew dude dies. I then cast miasma on the OG with a very high result and he lets it through (-2BS). I then cast IF Iceshard on Flame Cannon, taking 1W on the copter and killing 1WL, before the L1 ALSO casts Iceshard with IF and loses his level (targeted Irondrakes).

Shooting sees RBT be useless again. In combat I kill the copter and reform. Although both scrolls are intact, I feel that I have a very good position:

Image

// DW T2 //

Irondrakes decide they`ll be expensive chaff. Longbeards charge Reavers who flee. Gyro charges far RBT. Shooting: a couple of Helms die, Flame Cannon fails its 4+, 2 Reavers from the fleeing unit die (bringing them below 25%), a wall is blown away and an RBT dies. Other panics.

Image

// HE T3 //

Silver Helms charge Irondrakes and lose a couple to S&S. I then make a huge mistake as I prioritize chaffing the Hammerers instead of blocking the OG with my Reavers (see the Evaluation section). PG and WL move up.

Magic sees a scroll finally come out but the 4+ needed to kill off Iceshard is gone. Lions get regen, rest is contained.

Helms + characters kill 9 Irondrakes. Remaining 2 flee, I fail to catch with a miserable pursuit roll. Gyro kills RBT.

Image

// DW T3 //

He simply leaves the Reavers be while Longbeards free reform to aid the center. Shooting is absolutely disastrous as the Organ Gun kills enough SH to make me lose LoS. A Cannon thanks its partner in crime and blasts away my helpless general.

Image

// HE T4 //

It`s a very bad spot but I figure I have a chance: if I can draw his scroll I can attempt a dual-charge on the Hammerers T5, or something like that. Point is, scroll has to come out so I can use the Loremaster for what he`s worth. Furthermore, the Silver Helms and BSB can kill the Organ Gun, overrun into the Flame Cannon and then charge again in my T5. There are quite a few points in all his artillery + Thunderers.

Magic sees Spirit Leech target his scroll caddy. Yet again he lets it through, yet again I fail to do anything. I can`t remember the rest of the phase but I got off quite a few spells, none of which mattered too much. Shooting sees RBT fail to do anything. In combat BSB and company kill off OG and overrun into FC.

Image

// DW T4 //

Longbeards charge blocking Reavers. Runesmith with spent superscroll comes out and blocks PG. Gyro moves in closer. Shooting kills off last RBT. In combat my BSB + Helms somehow fluff and FAIL to kill the Flame Cannon. This is disastrous as it`s my turn next and there`s only 1 crew-dude left.

Image

// HE T5 //

At this point I throw caution to the wind: with the BSB so exposed I have to make something happen in the middle. I charge WL into Hammerers and PG into chaff-dude, hoping to overrun into Longbeards (need 6+). Magic draws the scroll at long last, but I get Wyssan`s on the PG at least. In combat the Loremaster takes 2W and I kill 9 Hammerers for 5 Lions or so. He holds on steadfast. BSB + Helms repeat their failure to my amusement however and the last Dwarf lives! PG overrun into Longbeards.

Image

// DW T5 => end of game //

He kills off Reavers and we move to combat: Loremaster dies, mage dies, Lions win but he holds. BSB finally kill off last dude. I decide that it`s better to take on the Hammerers in my T6 as they are quite capable of taking down the Lions with 2A each. I figure it`s a fairly safe play: they are quite whittled down and I can force him to have max. 1 dude attacking me. I charge through the woods passing all tests like a champ and hit home. The Star Lance is a rubber lance however and the Lions don`t fare much better: when all comes down to it there are 5 Lions left against 4 Hammerers. He holds on stubborn.

Meanwhile, PG and Longbeards are chopping away and I`m losing this war of attrition because I`m lacking any magical support.

In the very last turn of the game I fluff completely in the Hammerers combat: however Strange kills 4 Lions with 2 Hammerers (!) while the champ dies to his BSB in a challenge. The block is suddenly gone and to make matters worse he wins so big my Helms flee (BSB + standard insta-dying). He chases me down. 3 PG are left and barely pass their break test. With that, the game is over and I`m beaten badly: counting up the points Strange is just over 1500 points ahead, so sadly a 0-20 loss for the High Elves

// Evaluation //

I got off to a very good start: getting the cavalry up was key and the Lions got a really nice position after killing the Gyro. While Spirit Leech didn`t kill anything, I presented a lot of strong targets (WL with BOTWD, single-file SH etc) so his artillery didn`t hurt me that much. The RBT didn`t do anything the entire game I think, but Strange`s mistake of charging the copter into Reavers T1 kind of made up for this: I had the board control I needed.

My one major mistake was not blocking the OG T3. I should`ve reformed the Lions to be 4 wide (Loremaster + full command) and just marched them straight in his face. I don`t really care if he charges me: next turn it`s my magic phase and the cavalry can assist, with LD10 re-rollable it`s not really much of a risk. Instead I brainfarted totally, blocking myself more than him (the Reavers couldn`t make the charge on the Organ Gun despite having vision because they were too long and would`ve clipped the Hammerers). Strange saw this very easily and just left them there. Adding insult to injury, the Organ Gun killed -just- enough Helms to lose me my LoS as well (there were 5 Helms left but I have a Champion...). With the hard cover from the Reavers the prince likely would`ve survived and regardless, PG + WL will eat Hammerers any day of the week.

I`m also open to discussing my T5 decision of going for the kill: at this point I still had a unit of Reavers left, Strange was down to 1 scroll. The GCoA had been used to save a dangerous terrain fail on the BSB, so he was super-vulnerable to cannons. I think that if I had killed the Flame Cannon in his T4, as I was counting on doing, then I would not have engaged him. As I wrote initially, engaging 1 on 1 unit, two places simultaneously with a scroll intact is disastrous. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Unfortunately his infantry were just too strong and mine were too depleted to make this gamble pay off: though I came very close to killing off the Hammerers (3 Lions + BSB failed to kill a single Hammerer in the last combat phase and he had just 2 left).

Anyway, with the T3 Reaver mistake (easily the worst I`ve made in a very, very long time) I deserved to lose and when things go down-hill you have to take risks to try and get back in the game. I couldn`t do it and save for 3 silent guardians of Asuryan, I was wiped out. Well deserved win to Strange, who is really beginning to master this list (which I believe is very strong and well-rounded).

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:00 pm
Posts: 137
Wow a nasty battle. Even when you have added extra bodies for the SH's you still loose the LoS for the Prince. Is this a one off or do you see this as a general problem with the current list as you have encountered loosing LoS several times now (against CD your opponent perhaps forgot to target your prince)? Could your archers have helped here by taking away a WM crew a round?
In general I think Strange played clever and exploited the mistakes you made, but wow it was brutal.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:51 pm 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
The main problem Dragon fire is that the meta is very tailored to countering MC. MC typically sport T4 1+, and thus my poor T3 2+ Helms become an easy target. With that being said, investing more in this unit sounds insane to me: indeed I think the only reason I lost LoS in this game was because I made a big mistake. There are also two more things to consider: 1) I`m fairly new to this approach, previously I`ve typically used much stronger buses. 2) There aren`t that many armies that can put enough pressure on the bus to threaten that many Helms AND take advantage of no LoS on the Prince. I think Dwarfs are pretty much alone, maybe rivalled by Life Empire.

Also remember that in the game vs CD I had way fewer Helms AND the IF Ashstorm kinda screwed me. He did indeed not consider the Prince not having LoS, which also helped me greatly.

As for Archers vs WMs, I tried with Repeaters but just couldn`t roll the numbers needed. Archers might`ve helped but this bus would never have made it through the Dwarf shooting with fewer bodies, regardless of cover.

Strange got a very well deserved win, and the reason it got so bad was because I took a risk which went bad, in hopes of getting a draw or even a minor win if lady luck was on my side (if the Loremaster had survived and gotten another round it could have gotten pretty brutal). I`ve had the same thing happen to me many times, in fact this exact thing happened against CD in my last game: As I pointed out in my evaluation for that game he made a risky couple of moves that could very well have led him to a minor win or draw, but it didn`t pay off and I was able to capitalize bigtime on the outcome.

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:44 am
Posts: 27
Curu Olannon wrote:
Thanks a lot for reading, I hope you`ll leave a comment :)


Hi Curu,

Thanks a lot for writing such cool reports! And I shall indeed leave a comment - my very first post here on Ulthuan! :D

From such a promising beginning, those dwarfs really cleaned up your army - that Organ Gun/Cannon combo was just horrible, and forced your hand into taking on combats without the support you'd like. As I see it, your only other option would be to try to withdraw and deny him points - but under fire that could get you killed just as easily as taking him head-on. The choice was simple: go big or go home. Taking a gamble can get you out of a tricky situation - but if it fails, it will likely turn mere defeat into annihilation! Credit to Strange, he seems to have had a few beatings in your batreps, so it is nice to see him play so effectively with this army.

I find the idea of an all-cavalry core very attractive, but my only concern is that this makes us short on numbers - and that leaves you vulnerable to the randomness of the dice: one or two great rolls from your opponent or bad ones from you can make a devasting impact (eg OG/Cannon success or SH failing twice against Flame Cannon). As you say, this was a very hard test and perhaps not the best opportunity for your all-cav core to shine, so I assume we will see more of them? :)

Finally, thanks again for all your work here - the batreps themselves are fascinating reading, but the evaluation and discussion generated with other seasoned generals is giving me a great education in WFB - I've been playing 40K since 1st Ed(!) but only a year or so in Fantasy, and I'm having to catch up quick with my friends who have been doing this for years. Now, if only they would let me use a couple of grav-tanks to put my Swordmasters in... :twisted:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:00 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:30 am
Posts: 49
Location: Oslo, Norway
Curu Olannon wrote:
.::. Battle Report: 2400 ETC vs Dwarfs .::.

High Elves 2400 points

Star Dragon, Prince with: Enchanted Shield, Star Lance, Other Trickster`s Shard, Golden Crown of Atrazar, Heavy armour = 596
High Mage lvl 2 on horsie with scroll, furyring 180
High Mage lvl 2 on horsie with power stone, obsidian amulet 180
Noble BSB with: Dragon Armour, Shield, Ogre Blade, Dragonhelm, barded steed 172

Characters = 1128

12 Helms, fc shields = 306

5 Reavers, bows & muso, champ = 105
5 Reavers, bows & muso = 95
5 Reavers, bows & muso = 95

Core = 601

27 WL, FC BOTWD = 431
Frostheart = 240


Your BSB costs 167, not 172. Is it just a miscalculation or do you have Luckstone or some other 2,5 ss magic item on him?

_________________
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:01 am
Posts: 1532
It's okay hans you can say "5 points", the GW mafia will not have the site shut down as a result!

Great reports, that did not feel like such a big loss to the Dwarfs, the 20-0 just seems to happen out of nowhere in what seemed like a pretty close game.

I ran a similar style of army a while back and what I found was that 6 + 9 Reavers worked pretty well. It meant that if the Silver Helm brick got bashed up some I could run the characters into the bigger Reaver unit. I even went 3-wide with them at one point so that the rank and file couldn't be targeted (apart from champion)!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:36 am
Posts: 27
Indeed the game turned suddenly. I felt thoroughly outdeployed and had no good solution for it. When the Reavers suddenly came up and bottled things up I was happy to let them sit there and give med an extra turn to turn my Longbeards around and blast away at the Silver Helms. I felt pretty lucky when the BSB and helms failed to kill the flame cannon on the overrun as well, delaying them for a turn! Curu has never made a mistake that can be capitalized on to this degree against me.


Have you considered if the champ in helms is necessary? Could dropping him and netting you one more model for LoS be worthwhile?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:04 pm 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
@Orchaldor - Indeed you are correct that I could have tried to withdraw. This might have been the better play, but as I said the deciding factor was the BSB & Helms failing to kill the Cannon. Without LoS I was looking at a loss anyway so I thought I`d try and go for at least a big kill on Hammerers + BSB (which, with bonuses, would maybe have evened things out a bit).

Short on numbers - truth be told I`ve never understood people`s fascination with claiming "too few bodies" or "too many points on characters" etc. It`s all about synergy. The Archers haven`t really done a lot for me, in this list they seem an awkward pick and I definitely like the bigger Helms. I actually think that this game was a perfect test for the all-cav core: I just played bad. I know it would`ve been a win if I had played the Reavers correctly: no configuration can stand up to poor decisions. Our army is an unforgiving one and this is a perfect example to demonstrate this. I am way more happy with this setup so you`ll see more :)

Lastly I wouldn`t mind a wave serpent or even a devilfish for Swordmasters, preferably open-topped as well ;)

@hansleonard - that`s a very old post you found there ^^ I do believe I discovered this mistake at some point myself and corrected it. Regardless I no longer that configuration.

@Stormie - I find 3x5 Reavers to be perfectly flexible for my needs. Admittedly I`m really missing an Eagle, but I really can`t find the points for it. Good idea though, should I tire of 3x5 I might give it a go :)

@Strange - First of all thanks for the game and for checking in! I agree that the Reaver move was terrible. I had so many options to deal with that situation and I chose the worst. Not much more to say about it, unfortunately. I`ve considered the Helm Champ issue. The reason he`s there is, of course, for challenges I don`t want my characters to take (such as charging a weak unit and wasting the Star Lance on a champion). The question is what`s more important. I haven`t made up my mind yet.

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:39 am 
Offline
Centurion

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:55 am
Posts: 3297
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Thanks for the latest two reports Curu.

I'm a fan of Chaos Dwarfs so it was good to see them up and running. Some very critical phases there!

Second game against Dwarfs was a shame!

_________________
Nec Sorte Nec Fato - Neither By Chance Nor Fate

X-wing Blog


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:49 am 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
Hi Jimmy, you`ll be pleased to know I`ve started up CD myself as well then I hope ;) We`re still talking very early stages of course, but at least I`ve started painting a little bit: http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/forum/showt ... #pid233468 The game surely had some crucial stages and I was lucky to pull through so well. The end result does not do the game justice in my opinion, but then again when you break through the game can snowball out of control very quickly. This is also true for my latest game against Dwarfs: a seemingly good situation turned bad because of one mistake, I got a bad position and suddenly BOOM! everything was lost. I will get a rematch in due time, despite the terrible loss I`m confident in my list`s ability to handle the new Dwarfs now :)

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:47 am
Posts: 3550
Location: PA, USA
Hey Curu. Thanks for the report as always. I'm curious as to your thoughts on the new core setup with the 15-man bus now a focus. Do you really think it is worth it to go the 13 SH route? I can see having 3 ranks being a big bonus but other than that I'm not sure as my SHs always hit like a wet sponge either way. Going back to a unit of 8 plus heroes could net you that extra redirector (eagle) you've been talking about.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:46 pm 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
I agree that Silver Helms don`t kill much. Most of the time, nothing. The only reason I`m buffing them is to provide Look Out, Sir! in the face of more than a couple of casualties. The last 2 games have really shown how this can be a problem, and a number of other armies can present the same problem actually. The 3rd rank is negligible and has really nothing to do with the unit being so big ;) Going back to a smaller unit wouldn`t let me get another redirector because this is all core tax anyway, so if I don`t buy Helms I`m looking at Archers. Besides, running all-cav core gives me 3 units of Reavers, which seems to be working out quite nicely :)

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:52 pm
Posts: 64
Hey Curu great report, i was just thinking boy i wonder what going up against the new dawi with a cav-core would be like and poof there you is. I really like the setup for your list, ive been playing around with the 13 strong silver helm core myself and im trying to find some nice support but i only have 5 reavers at present (i know i should be flogged). At almost double the points are you getting mileage out of the extra units or are they primarily a core tax. Also do you pick heavens for you off lore for teh iceshard (personaly i love the spell) or is it more for the chance of comet?

Thanks and i look forward to more reports =D>


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:55 am 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
Hey oreaper, thanks for your reply :)

The cav-core was working fine. Might've been a tad harder if he had gotten T1 but then again cover helps for sure.

The unit is primarily core tax. Basically none of our core units, barring Reavers, are good. Look at Chaos Chariots, Dwarf Longbeards etc and you'll see what proper core is. At best, our core fills a niche role in a few matchups. At worst it's just bleeding points. With that being said, the Prince needs a unit this big to work, in my opinion, so despite Helms being overcosted and having close-to-zero damage output, they are the lesser evil since the Prince is so strong.

The secondary lore is indeed for Blizzard. Comet is wonderful in some matchups but Iceshard is fantastic in just about every matchup there is.

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:02 am 
Offline
Vindicated Strategist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:21 am
Posts: 4929
Location: Oslo, Norway
An idea I have been tinker with a little bit: losing the PG. While I do really enjoy the 3-block approach, I feel that the blocks are just a bit too small and I also feel that I'm a bit short on support. Losing the PG allows the Lions to be buffed, Eagle to come in, L2 on mage, a 4th RBT and Shadow Warriors or something like that. Although this could look like a minor change, it significantly alters the way the list plays so it's not a change I'm likely to do anytime soon. Nevertheless I thought Ì'd share it with you and I might revisit this idea further down the road. Also note that this is closer to what I used to run in the early days of the new book where I tried a bus + elite infantry. The Loremaster changes things quite drastically, as does the lack of BOTWD on the cavalry. I'll write down a concrete list suggestion soon ;)

_________________
Retired from Warhammer. Playing Warmachine & Hordes (Cygnar).

Follow me on Courage of Caspia, my blog.

Warhammer blogs from 2011-2015:

:: Path to Glory - High Elves Army Blog ::
:: Curu Olannon's Vindicators - 2500 points Army Blog (Old book, outdated) ::


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1630 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 ... 55  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group