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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:56 am 
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Rusty's Wolfen

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Background
I'm a long-time WE/DW/DoC/VC player. I've had my eye on the old Confrontation range of Wolfen models for since they came out in the early 2000's. Last year the new ogre kingdoms book came out I finally had the time and inclination to go through with the idea, and my Wolfen army was born.

What will this blog will be about?
Mostly tactics, battle reports and painting for my Wolfen (OK) army, but my other armies will make guest apperances. I've decided that 2013 should be Year of the Wolfen. So far it looks pretty good :)
Oh, and thanks to Curu Olannon for finally prodding me into creating a blog here.

Index
NM2013 painted 2000 pts OK army
NM2013 army list
NM battle 1 - Shadow slaan LZ
NM battle 2 - Sphinx TK
NM battle 3 - WoC
NM battle 4 - OK Irongut Horde
NM battle 5 - WoC
#23 vs Dark Reaper's Monsters of Chaos

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Last edited by rusty on Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:49 pm, edited 12 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:14 am 
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What's happened so far
I've spent half of 2012 collecting and painting Wolfen models collected from various sources, and have so far successfully avoid lead posoining (I hope).
I've set somewhere close to 100 pins, and worn out one Dremel. Dremel has solid waranty btw, I got a new one, no questions asked. So far, I've pretty exactly 2000 pts painted.

In total I've gotten 20 games with the army, five of those in a tournament. Actually the only armies I haven't faced so far is beasts and wood elves. I quite like the high mobility and synergy options in the OK list.

Plans for 2013
[]Paint the army up to 2500 points with more than one possible play style.
[]Play in at least one tournament, ETC style
[]Beat Curu's High Elves.(EDIT: under ETC-restrictions :twisted: )
[]Beat, stomp and rip apart Dark Reaper's Dark Elves (yep, ogres can bear a grudge too)

[]Build a modular terrain table


This one will probably come back to haunt me.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:18 am 
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Painted so far
Wolfen army:
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Solitaire, Slaughtermaster:
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Ironguts:
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Ironguts:
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Ironguts:
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Ironguts:
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Ironguts standard:
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Ironguts champion:
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Ironguts :
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Ironguts musician:
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Killiox, BSB
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Sabretusks:
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Ironblaster:
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Leadbelchers:
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Leadbelcher:
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Maneaters:
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Maneater standard:
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Maneater champion:
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Maneater musician:
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Maneater musician:
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Maneater:
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Ogres:
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Ogre:
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:56 am 
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So, onto the army building. The one thing I find exceptional on this forum is the level of competence among those that comment on army lists and tactics. I've been trolling Curu's blog for the last year, so I might as well make a modest effort on mye own instead of clogging up his thread with questions :wink: .

First out, I'll take a look at what I've been playing so far, and then hopefully I'll get around to making a coherent plan for the way onwards. The goal is a playable 2400 ETC Ogre Kingdoms list. Comments and feedback (critical in particular) is much appreciated :) .


Norwegian Masters army list
This is the list I attended the Norwegian Masters in january with. It evolved of several games with friends, and did pretty good in the 15 games I played. In 15 games there were two total massacres at the hands of Dark Reaper's decidedly unfriendly Dark Elves. The rest went pretty well. Excellent batrep from game#2 vs Curu here.


The comp for NM was almost non-existant: Max 1 rare>=170 pts. In other words, no double ironblaster or hydra. Also: True LOS. Having played with some modified form of LOS all of 8th, this would take some getting used to.
About the list
The army list is pretty straightforward, but with some flexibility. One opponent dubbed it "Playing wood elves with ogres" which I find very accurate. If facing an all-offensive opponent with little shooting/ranged magic, this army can hang back and shoot while it manouvers into position. Then, when the enemy is closing in, the sabretusks move up and start redirecting. All the while the combat elements look for opportunities to exploit.

If I'm facing a defensive army on the other hand, I deploy 12" forward with everything and rush up, trying to do some sneaky manouvering en route.


Wolfen of Vile-Tis (Ogre Kingdoms)

Solitare, the Lonewolf
Slaughtermaster, General, lvl 4, Lore of the Great Maw, warrior bane, Armour of Destiny, Dispel Scroll, dragonbane gem 370 :
Utility character. Can handle etherals to some degree. Also tackles K'daiis. And off course, magic defense and army augments. Finally: he's the first link in the "Gutwall". No Crown of command. First, I couldn't find the points, and second I hardly ever have need of it. The three times in total I've lost the mage and ironguts so far, it was because both were annihilated by superior close combat hordes.

Kylliox, pack Leader
Bruiser, BSB, Great Weapon, Talisman of Preservation, light armour, 186
Rerolls and S7 headbreaking.
Most importantly: Together with slaughtermaster and ironguts champion he forms the "gutwall" at the front of my Ironguts. Simply put, anyone fighting ironguts to the front have a choice between a T4 champion where they can max score three wounds, or two T5, 5+/4++ characters. With the notable exception of Mindrazor I very seldom lose more than 3-4 wounds altogether. This way, the first and sometimes second combat this unit is involved in, is a pretty safe win. When the champion dies, or someone hits the flank the situation is changed and odds are not as good. Then again, ironguts hardly ever have to go through very many hard enemy units. Usually they chrush the enemy's main combat unit, and maybe one more, and that's game over.


Heroes of Legend
8 Ironguts, FCG, Great Weapon, Heavy Armour, Standard of Disipline, 389
Leadership 9 bubble. Headbreakers par excellence as long as no-one strikes them back. That's the tricky part. Steadfastbreakers. Unless shot up they will go into combat with two ranks and one spare. They champion dies, the spare moves up, and they still have two ranks. With the damage output I'm usually able to knock of excess ranks from enemy units. In the case of skavenslaves, I have either expended a character or other minor units locking them up while the gutstar moves past.

Predators of Blood
4 Ogres, banner, musician, light armour, additional hand weapon, 144
Surprisingly versatile unit. Usually deployed 2x2 for manouverability. Often reforms to 4 wide during the game. Their main objective is a flanker, annoyance, possible redirector and when possible, damage dealer. They usually go down as my fourth drop, on one flank. They can clean out small units easy, and add the hurt to combined charges. 16 attacks with strength augment can hurt a lot.
Beside the dogs, they are the ones most likely to die.


Huntsmen of Vile-Tis
6 Leadbelchers, Musician, Light Armour, 268
Chaff clearers, damage dealers at range, extra combat power. The unit can reliably kill furies, etc and so helps me win the movement phase. When freedom of manouver is established, they start to attrite units that are too tough to kill in a straight fight. Chaos warriors and swordmasters are a particular favorite. Finally, they add 18 S4(5 in all six is alive) attacks, one rank and 3 S4 stomps to any combat. With buffs they can really add to combined combats.


Devourers of Vile-Tis
6 Maneaters, FCG, light armour, Brace of pistols, gleaming pendant , Poison, sniper, 407
Special ops. Snipers, damage dealers above and beyond everything as long as they get to strike first. 25 WS4, I3, S5 attacks is the usual complement in 2x3 formation. Add S5 impact hits and stomp. Reformed wide they do even more damage. The pistols ensure this very expensive unit can influence the battle even if they are avoided and redirected. The gleaming pendant and Ld8 makes them a prime candidate for holding a flank away from general and BSB. A few things they annihilated so far: sphinx on stand and shoot. Khorne herald sniped. Chaos sorcerer lord sniped. 2 units of 6 kroxigors killed outright before they got to strike, one after another. TK mage bunker with all mages, even when severly hexed.

1 Sabretusk, 21

1 Sabretusk, 21

1 Sabretusk, 21
Redirectors. Not as good as an eagle, but cheap and plentiful. Can not use generals Ld or BSB, and have Ld4. Never rely on these to pass march, panic or rally tests. Some people warn of always keeping them outside 6" from other units. I have not had any problems with them causing panic in own units, but I make sure to screen them and keep them out of harms way until they need to be expended. The important bit is keeping them 6" apart to avoid a cascade of dog panic. Usually I deploy them behind the rest of the army, unless I face scouts, in whice case one goes down 13" from each corner.

1 Ironblaster, 170
Probably the best warmachine in the game atm, and also the best chariot. Mine spend half his time shooting, the rest in combat. Point and shoot, pretty simple. Bonus for taking out more than one monster with a shot. Record so far is Cauldron of Blood and Hydra in one shoot, with pendant-peg panicking of the board as a result... I still lost #-o .

Total: 1997

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Last edited by rusty on Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:54 am 
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Rusty this army is fantastic!!!! It looks incredible! What're your plans to expand to 2500? I'd love to see some mournfangs!

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:12 am 
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Here, here! This is going to be interesting to follow :)

Your Ogres have already beaten me, you even linked it :D However I`d love to try out the dual-mage list against ogres, nothing says "YES!" like rolling PS and Pit down your units like no tomorrow (on top of withering and soulblight with 50 Archers, of course).

Piece of advice - make your first post an index of interesting points. You`ll thank me later when this has grown to some hundred posts ;)

Lastly the army truly turned out looking great. I love it when people do other things than buy plain GW models and glue them up straight-forward, it really adds to the game with some variety (which is why the only plain unit I have is the Swordmasters, which I really think look great, btw).

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:16 pm 
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Good stuff Rusty, always glad to see blogs for other armies on here!

Hang on....Ogres?

Seriously, this is great. Your army is wonderful! I like the list too, nice to see something a little different that nevertheless looks like it can compete.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:57 pm 
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There, I've updated my NM2013 list with comments on each unit in italics. That should give an idea how they work interdependently.

@ThelordCal
Thank you :) . I'll get to the 2400/2500 pt army in one of my next posts. Mournfangs is indeed in the offing.

@Curu
First beating doesn't count, ogres are broken uncomped :D. ETC is a bit more equal.
Looking down the field at your "Shadows and Death" I see only....Death. [-o<. It could be interesting, but I don't see a snowball's chance in hell that my ogres could survive the kind of barrage you can deliver, unless I can snipe both mages. Adding in the new ETC13 restrictions will make it even harder, since I basically get to chose between leadership and magic. More about ETC restrictions later.

Advice taken - index added.

Ye, making the army unique was part of the exercise, and I'm very happy with it so far. Nowhere close to best painted, but I've learned a fair bit of painting doing this first batch, and I can always go back and add more layers later. Anyhow, as you've shown with black-orange HE, a consistent colour scheme really helps.

@Spellarcher
Thank you :)

Ogres it is. I like the tactical aspect of an "all-phases" army, and adding shooting at the expense of raw mournfang power helps me win the manouver battle. It is somewhat more satisfying rear-charging chaos knights and running them down, compared to simply pulverizing them with a frontal charge.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:11 pm 
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Norwegian Masters tournament 2013 - part 1 - army lists
Masters is actually a misnomer. In norwegian it is Norgesmesterskap, but it is open to all, and the biggest tournament in Norway. We even had some danes attending.

Very well organized and enjoyable tournament, and chances are we'll return next year.
I'll keep the report brief, since I didn't take any notes and I'm anyway short of time. Keep in mind that this was a virtually uncomped tournament, and some of the lists featured are not for the feint of heart. Personally I managed to avoid the All Etheral team, with 26 hexwraiths and 3 spirit hosts backed up by a double LD10 spirit leech. Still, all games were fun, and everybody looked to be having a good time.


Battle 1
Lizardmen
Slann, general, BSB, lvl4, shadow, The Focused Rumination, Higher State of Consciousness, Soul of Stone, Crown of Command, Plaque of Tepok, 450
Skink Chief, Cloak of Feathers, Charmed Shield, 85
12 Saurus, Musician, 138
12 Saurus, Musician, 138
10 Saurus, Musician, 116
10 Skinks, Musician, 56
10 Skinks, Musician, 56
6 Kroxigor, 330
6 Kroxigor, 330
2 Salamanders, 150
2 Salamanders, 150
Total: 1999

Battle 2
Christian Brubakken
Tomb Kings
High Lich Priest, general, Lvl4, Nehekara, Scepter of Stability, 225
Lich Priest, lvl2, Death, Dispel Scroll, 130
19 archers, musician, champion, 134
10 archers, 60
10 archers, 60
10 archers, 60
5 horse archers, 70
5 horse archers, 70
5 horse archers, 70
5 horse archers, 70
War sphinx; fiery breath, 230
War sphinx; fiery breath, 230
War sphinx; fiery breath, 230
Nercosphinx, 225
Casket of Souls, 135
Total: 1999

Battle 3
Warriors of Chaos
Sorceror Lord, Lvl 4, Death, Crown of command, Talisman of endurance, Fencers Blades, 370
Exalted Hero, BSB, Mark Of Khorne, Talisman of Preservation, Eye of the Gods, 200
Exalted Hero, Mark Of Khorne, Juggernaut, Fury of the Blood God, 195
22 Warriors of Chaos, Mark Of Khorne, Shields and Halberds,Ful command, Standard of Discipline, 449
41 Marauders, Flails, Mark Of Khorne, Full Command, 255
5 Warhounds, 30
5 Warhounds, 30
5 Skullcrushers,Musician and Banner, Banner of Eternal Flame, 340
Warshrine, 130
Total, 1999

Battle 4
Ogre Kingdoms
Slaughtermaster, general, lvl 4, lore of the great maw, ironfist, crown of command, talisman of preservation, dragonhelm, biting blade, 388
Bruiser, bsb, great weapon, heavy armour, rune maw, 201
18 ironguts, fcg, look ou gnoblar, standard of discipline, 819
5 Mounfang, heavy armour, Standard, Musician, ironfist
1 sabretusk, 21
1 sabretusk, 21
Ironblaster, 170
Total: 1987

Battle 5
Warriors of Chaos
Sorcerer Lord of Tzeentch: Disc of Tzeentch, General, Lvl 3, Tzeentch,Mark of Tzeentch, Shrieking Blade, Dragon Helm, Dispel scroll, Golden Eye of Tzeentch, Favour of the Gods, Stream of Corruption, 370
Exalted Hero of Tzeentch: Chaos steed,BSB, Mark of Tzeentch,Biting Blade, The Bronze Armour of Zhrakk, Talisman of Endurance, 211
18 Chaos Warriors: Standard, Musican, Shield, Mark of Tzeentch, 326
12 Chaos Warriors: Standard, Musican, Shield,210
5 Chaos Warhounds: 30
5 Chaos Warhounds: 30
14 Chaos Knights of Tzeentch: Full command, Mark of Tzeentch, Blasted Standard, 670
1 Chaos Warshrine of Tzeentch:Mark of Tzeentch, 150
Total: 1997

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:54 pm 
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Some nasty lists @ NM for sure. The all-ethereal strikes me as a typical stupid thing to do, which is just plain annoying to be up against. Some armies will just rape you completely while other`s won`t stand a chance. At the end of the day, the only way for such a list to perform well is to be really lucky with its draws, avoiding Daemons, High Elves, Dwarfs and Chaos Dwarfs for the majority of its games.

As far as Ogres are concerned, I think the combined arms approach is interesting. Most notably, the fact that the ranged damage dealers can shrug off most harassers in melee means that adopting to another playstyle is very easy: you don`t need to cover your leadbelchers and they can perform a variety of roles in different positions. Now Maneaters are even more versatile, which further helps out here. As for 0-2 of +1LD, Slaughtermaster and cannon, it`s a hard choice for sure. Perhaps just aim for more melee, or is the cannon really necessary compared to the magic?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:12 pm 
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There was a funny conversation at between the etheral player and his daemon opponent (who won btw). They were jokingly discussing whether or not to just decide the battle on a duel between the bloodthirster and Vampire lord. Not much chance winning that matchup.

Dropping the cannon is definitely an option, The problem then is the 50% cap on special choices. There are no other worthwile rare choices, and feeding more points into characters and core suffer from dimninshing returns.

Will look into it when I had a good nights sleep and killed some chaos warrios.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:14 am 
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NM 2013 - battle reports
I'll just stick to the interesting points in this report, as a turn by turn analysis is beyond my memory.

Battle 1 - LZ
Actually getting to the slann and killing him was the top priority in this game. To this end I deployed everything forward and moved up. The lizzies deployed traditionally with saurus behind skinks and sallies, with krox on one flank.

First turn magic phase the slann tried to use steed of shadow to block both leadbelchers and maneaters, who I had placed 1" apart. Since he was etheral and stubborn, that would have kept him safe in combat, and blocked up half my armies in one go. Scroll.

After that the situation went downhill rapidly for the lizards. Maneaters charged one unit of kroxigors and annihilated them for no loss. They were then charged by the second unit of kroxigors, who were also annihilated for no loss. He didn't have much choice in the matter, as the maneaters had ended up only 2" away from the second unit. That left ME effectively isolated on one flank, although they shot dead a flying skink chief late in the game, before he could use the shadow attribute to swap with the slann.

In the centre Ironguts moved up 12". All skinks and salamanders immediatly closed in and unleashed a barrage of fire. Luckily I was able to dispel withering in the magic phase and had Trollguts (regeneration) up myself, so effect was limited. This was a gamble from the lizzies, and in return I was able to charge and destroy all salamanders and overrun into the skinks. The lizzie intention was then probably to countercharge with mindrazored saurus. Due to bad placement he was only able to get one unit into the flank of my small ogre unit. They were again engaged to the front with skinks, and actually killed sufficient skinks to win the combat. They died next turn when another unit of saurus charged in, but too late. Both depleted units were later destroyed by shooting.

The ironguts in the mean time had a straight line to the slann bunker, which they quickly annihilated, even with mindrazor up. The slann was somewhat tougher, taking eight combat turns for my slaughtermaster to kill with his magic blade.

Result: 20-0

Lessons learned:
-Beware Slann and their magic tricks. I was able to dispel or ignore all the critical spells this game, but it could have been very different. Also ,mindrazor doesn't matter when there's no one left to attack.
-Maneaters totally slaughter low-I troops.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:18 pm 
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Due to time constraints I'll skip past the NM reports for now and write down last nights game while it's still fresh in memory. It's also more relevant to my current train of thought, so here you go.


OK Battle #22 - vs Dark Reaper's Monsters of Chaos - Purple sunz go fasta!

Dark Reaper and Curu have had an ongoing discussion over the joys of the Monsters of Chaos list (hereafter known as MoC), with me acting as Devil's advocate on the sidelines. In short: [Dark Reaper and Curu]: This army will destroy everything!" Me: "maybe".
So I've had to put my army where my mouth is and try to destroy these monsters.


List#9 2400 Pts - Ogre Kingdoms Army


For the battle we used ETC13 restrictions. Link here: http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic ... 8&t=110820
We also used SLOS for line of sight.

This forced some subtle changes on my ogre army. Most importantly, I have to choose from slaughtermaster, banner of dicipline or ironblaster. I dropped banner of dicipline, reasoning I don't really take that many Ld-tests. I also chose banner of eternal flame on my maneaters to tackle all the regenerating monsters running around. Finally I added 5 naked mournfang for pure destruction.


1 Slaughtermaster
General; Magic Level 4; Lore of the Great Maw
Dispel Scroll
Warrior Bane
Armour of Destiny
Dragonbane Gem

1 Bruiser
Great Weapon; Battle Standard
Talisman of Preservation

8 Ironguts @
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Standard; Musician
Banner of Swiftness
Gutlord

6 Ogres
Iron Fist; Light Armour; Standard; Musician

6 Leadbelchers
Light Armour; Musician

6 Maneaters (light armour)
Poisoned Attacks; Sniper
Brace of Ogre Pistols; Musician, banner of eternal flame

5 Mournfang Cavalry
Iron Fist; Heavy Armour; Musician

1 Sabretusk Pack

1 Sabretusk Pack

1 Ironblaster

Models in Army: 33



Dark Reaper's Monsters of Chaos



Dark Reaper went for the flying circus variety. With Death and hellcannon this could be some dicey LD-tests. Also, his DP would have to be kept away from my maneaters. Actually I thought this a pretty good test for my army. If I can survive all those leadership tests and flying dragonbane gem I should be good to go.

Daemon Prince
Mon
Chaos armour
Daemonic Flight
Lvl4 death
Sword of Striking
Dragonbane Gem
Charmed Shield
Soul Feeder
Scaled Skin
Flaming Breath


Lvl2 fire w/scroll
Exalted hero
Mark of Tzeentch
Talisman of Preservation
Disc of Tzeentch
Third Eye of Tzeentch
BSB
Great Weapon 6pts
Shield 3pts
239pts

Total Characters 939pts

18xChaos Warriors w/Shield
Mark of Nurgle
Full Command
Banner of Swiftness


2x Chariot med Mark of Slaanesh

2 x 5 Warhounds med Vanguard



2x Chimera med regen og flame breath

Hellcannon


Deployment
No pictures, sorry.
Deployment was straight forward. I deployed in a bunch in the centre, while he massed his flyers behind a hill on my left flank. Hellcannon and warriors went centre, while both his and mine dogs spread out on the flanks. My maneaters scouted just ahead of my line, to reach and touch the closest chimera if I got first turn. He vanguarded his warhounds up.

I'll try a storydriven approach to army report this time. Please tell me if that works or not.

The Battle
On my right flank two sabretusks charged and chased off warhounds. After that they went on standby for redirect.

On my left flank I chose to charge the mournfang into the dogs. They killed them easily and reformed facing the centre. The reason for this was to anchor the flank to prevent the flying circus advancing there. In hindsight I made a few mistakes. I left an opening for the DP to land on their flank. This could have been avoided with better positioning. As it was, the chimera and BSB didn't want to face a mournfang charge and moved laterally towards the centre.
The DP then landed on the mournfang flank, ready to throw a purple sun. That cost me a scroll. That was the second mistake. I could have let soulblight through, but uses dice there instead. The third mistake was letting the mournfang out on the flank unsupported by general and BSB. As it was, they reformed to face the DP, leaving room for the ironblaster to shoot him down. Then I realized that my leadbelchers and maneaters were blocked by a hill and were unable to remove the charmed shield. Oops...The DP charged my mournfang, won by one (I had no banner), they failed break test at Ld7 steadfast, and were run down.


Meanwhile, my six basic ogres were hanging around in the backfield minding their own business when a hellcannon shot killed a few, and scared them off the table.

In the centre my leadbelchers and maneaters teamed up to kill a chimera on turn one. the leadbelchers then spent one shooting phase doing nothing to a chariot, and removing the charmed shield a little to late, before they fled a charge from the DP, rallied, charged the DP to hold him up and were obliterated by him for their troubles. The lone survivor fled the table in turn 6.

The ironblaster was my only hope of killing the DP, and probably win the battle. Turn 1: misfire, spin in place. DP was anyhow hiding behind a hill. Turn 2: Clear shot at DP, but charmed shield still up, so he killed a chariot instead. Turn 3: Shot DP, scored "1" to wound. He never got a turn 4 because the DP had spirit leeched him to death by then.


The maneaters on the other hand had a grand old time. They shot one chariot for two wounds, then destroyed it on the stand and shoot. They then marched into a very nice flanking position to rear charge the nurgle warriors. This they did, together with the big gutstar. Since the gutstar was the biggest unit the got a very long and lucky pursuit move towards the hellcannon in the rear, destroying it over two combat turns. Finally they killed of the "unkillable" BSB. How did he end up in the combat with them though? Can't remember. Bad place to be anyway, he died hard. On the bottom of turn six they received a charge from the DP, who had by now cleaned out the rest of my army, and held on steadfast, leaving them the only survivors together with a sabretusk.

I'll leave a small footnote for the vaunted gutstar. All 945 points of it. First turns they held back so not to get two chariots in the flank and two chimeras in the front. After the chariots were dead, on chimera shot dead, and one panicked by the Braingobbler Hex spell, they had free reign. They used it to trample the nurgle warriors. Then they were charged by the DP and BSB, who held them until a rallied chimera could charge in. Coupled with a point blanc Purple Sun that dropped all six remaining Ironguts, they were killed to the last ogre. Fun fact: Six ironguts had to take nine I2-tests, since all three "look out sir" tests were passed.
I did forget to use the banner of swiftness in the first turn. That could possibly have swung the battle, taking down the nurgle warriors in turn 2 and turning the ogre flank. Possibly.

End result: 13-7 to Dark Reaper, well deserved.




Lessons learned
Tactical:
-Mournfang riders get supporting attacks. Forgot this when I had them in 3+2 formation vs the DP. Probably not significant, but still.
-Mournfang need to be in range of general and BSB. Splitting the army is not a good idea with Ld7 troops.
-During spell selection I should have taken bonechruncher, for one more shot at taking down charmed shield.
-Changes in the army are often forgotten. I failed to use banner of swiftness, and I see now that I used one sabretusk too many.
-I should have held onto the scroll for Purple sun until later on. Still it was hard with several 4-3 magic phases were the DP could simply throw all he had at Purple Sun.
-Keeping the whole Ogre army together is vital, both for leadership and spells. And it's harder at larger point sizes.

Army list
-Four mournfang with upgrades would probably been better. Or maybe two units of two. That would spread the risk around, and they can still combine charges. They would also be more manouverable.
-I'm leaning towards a tyrant as general, coupled with two firebellies, and dropping the slaughtermaster and leadbelchers. That would overcome psychology. It would also increase the reach of my magic. At the moment, that reach is mostly 12" and I spend many magic phases doing nothing. The problem is that adding Tyrant and a bruiser to one unit suffers from severly dimnishing returns.
-Maybe split the six core ogres into 2 units of three with xhw. That would combine well with splitting the mournfang in giving me multiple small units that combine well. But I would be giving up +1 for first turn.


Thoughts and comments greatly appreciated :)

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:42 pm 
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The MoC™ will surely get field tested soon enough! I do believe that for me, not packing a Daemon Prince, a lot of OK lists can present a big problem: no impact hits, lots of stuff which can easily hurt the monsters and the inevitable Ironblaster. With that being said, I don't think it's a hopeless matchup, but 20-0's will be hard ;)

So, onto the game:

Deployment central interests me. Why not go for a refused flank?

Dispelling soulblight is indeed a mistake. There is one threat and one threat only: purple sun. It's max 4D6 so just chill and dispel it ;)

Racing mournfang up to defend the center is ok, but against multiple flyers it's really a big risk, almost regardless. What's more is that I see it as more of a reaction to your central deployment than anything else: if your army is tightly packed there is no-where safe for his flyers to move. Even if he moves up max, you can react.

Basic ogres prove vulnerable, no surprises here. Sometimes that unit is just a filler. Do you have any other core setups which could work well?

Ironblaster vs DP - get the Shield off and it's a lot easier ;) As you said, the magic missile is crucial here, however it's a very potent aggressive spell in addition to being able to clear the charmed shield. Ogre magic isn't offensive, so it's hard to draw the scroll early on. This is among the few who can do it.

+1M banner is vital - but only if you remember it :)

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:00 pm 
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Curu Olannon wrote:
not packing a Daemon Prince, a lot of OK lists can present a big problem

I daresay the magic was at least half the impact from the daemon prince. He killed ironguts and ironblaster with magic, and leadbelchers and mournfang in HtH.



Quote:
Deployment central interests me. Why not go for a refused flank?

Fuzzy thinking :) . I reasoned that since I couldn't outdeploy him I better bunch up around the centre. Further reasoning should have made it clear that he had to come to me, and I might as well deploy in a corner and save myself one flank. Good point, might do that next time.

Quote:
Dispelling soulblight is indeed a mistake. There is one threat and one threat only: purple sun. It's max 4D6 so just chill and dispel it ;)
If memory serves Dark Reaper had two 4 vs 3 magic phases, after I burnt the scroll. That is just bad luck, but having saved the scroll would mitigated that somewhat.


Quote:
Racing mournfang up to defend the center is ok, but against multiple flyers it's really a big risk, almost regardless. What's more is that I see it as more of a reaction to your central deployment than anything else: if your army is tightly packed there is no-where safe for his flyers to move. Even if he moves up max, you can react.

I think this was a case of being greedy, and unfamilar with mournfang. As Dark Reaper pointed out, what he saw was a unit with Ld7 and no reroll.


Quote:
Do you have any other core setups which could work well?

4 ogres with xHw in 2x2 formation have been a staple in my first 20 games and performed really well. Most games they either perform some valuable distraction, or kill more than they're worth. I'm considering 2 units of 3 ogres with xhw and musician. That would give me two solid flankers that can be wasted if need be. Also, they're really manouverable in 2 wide formation.
6 ogres are A) too expensive to waste, B) Take up too much room and C) Only pack the same punch as other units in the army, without providing something special. Not impressed.

Quote:
however it's a very potent aggressive spell in addition to being able to clear the charmed shield. Ogre magic isn't offensive, so it's hard to draw the scroll early on. This is among the few who can do it.

I'm actually considering 1-2 firebellies with hellheart, for ranged magic, and close combat utility. That leaves me almost dry on augments though. The question is whether or not augments have been crucial before.

Thinking about it, I believe most of the time Gut magic doesn't do that much for the army. Getting of boosted Trollguts really helps. And if that fails to cast I have two-three more augments to go. However, they're not always usefull, and they're very often out of range at max 12". The big gutstar doesn't really benefit from trollguts when fighting to the front, and that's where the caster is. If they're engaged on all fronts they really need help off course, but it's not certain.


Quote:
+1M banner is vital - but only if you remember it :)

Won't make that mistake again.

Bringing the banner made me think. It's possible to have a very agressive army of scouting maneaters, M7 ironguts and M8 mournfang. They will arrive roughly at the same time, and should be able to charge on turn 2. A plus is that they have a good chance of getting first turn with so few drops.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:34 pm 
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When the Winds are low, magic hurts. Badly. 12v6 phases usually isn't that big of a problem (unless your opponent packs serious redundancy, e.g. two level 4's with high-priority spells each), but the small ones like 5v3 etc are hopeless to defend against.

Ogres in 2x2 sounds reasonable. 2+1 could probably work well, too. 80mm frontage is rather small.

Dual Firebellies stand a good chance of grabbing Flaming Sword of Rhuin. While not great against 2+ ward-vs-fire characters, it's super-flexible and powerful in almost any other situation. Cascading fire-cloak is a somewhat useful augment considering its ridiculous cast value, and Fireball frequently draws a scroll early on. It's not perfect, but it's not terrible.

As for a fast army, indeed this could be interesting with an M7 character-star. It all boils down to how you deal with things that can stall you, in my opinion. I don't know if the best option here is a tooled-up Tyrant? Coupled with the ranged power of a blaster, leadbelchers and maneaters, most characters should fear him (great weapon, potion of toughness, 4+ ward, glittering scales for example).

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:52 pm 
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Thanks Rusty, enjoyed the report, pretty brutal stuff!

My last two Wood Elf games were vs Ogres and I agree, the magic phase is not scary, maybe 2x Firebelly is the way to go. One guy ran 6 Ogres vs me, the other 2x3 I guess this makes an extra drop and something a little different from the units of 6 Leadbelchers, Maneaters etc.. How do you feel about the solo cannon? Obviously nice to have but just doesn't have the reliability of 2. I take your point about keeping stuff together, vs a flexible enemy isolated units are in trouble. 2x2 Mournfangs definitely worth a go I think, the big unit is much more cumbersome.

Do you have wolfy models for the cavalry?

:)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:26 am 
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@Curu
Fire have some nice spells. I also like the one that forces a S4 hit on evermy model in the unit if they move. In most cases that guarantees that an infantry unit stays in place. Even more fun if it's possible to force the unit to move by stupidity, frenzy, panic.

I think I will couple one lvl 2 firebelly with ruby ring on a Tyrant. That way I have three casts in case I get many powerdice. Also, if my second spell is crap I can still chuck two fireballs every turn. Having two firebellies are simply too expensive when I also have a tyrant and BSB. Although granted, firebellies are a pretty good deal. They fight like an ogre, have a breath weapon and are mages, and even have a 4+ fire ward in a pinch.

In an offensive army I think firebelly with hellheart. In a more shooty army: dispel scroll and ruby ring. Any other good loadouts?


I will try this fast army :). The base is mournfang (m8), ironguts (m7) and maneaters (scout). The hard part will be placing the maneaters so they won't be left high and dry if I don't get first turn.
Unfortunately I don't have the points for leadbelchers, mournfang and a tooled tyrant. ATM I'm thinking the leadbelchers have to go. They have the least impact and scare-factor of all the units, although they are always useful. I'm hoping the firebelly can replace them in the chaff clearing role. Although he can be dispelled, he doesn't care about cover.

I'm also thinking of a shooty variant with lots of leadbelchers in place of mournfang, and less tooled characters. But first the "in your face" type.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:42 am 
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SpellArcher wrote:
Thanks Rusty, enjoyed the report, pretty brutal stuff!

Will add more brutality for your benefit next time.

The extra drop from 2x3 ogres is pretty good during deployment. The flip side is less of a chance of getting first turn. They are also cheap. With one on each flank I hope to keep annoyances away from my three main combat units: ME, MF, IG.
I'm leaning towards 2x4 ogres and 7 ironguts to fill core right now. With three characters in the ironguts unit seven should do.

The solo cannon feels close to indispensable. Usually there's always something worthwhile to shoot, and if not it's still a strong chariot. In a few battles it have either exploded or rolled "1" to wound, but most battles it regularly kills far more than it's worth. Also, it tackles problems I have no other good answer too: Hellblasters, 1+ save daemonprinces, and so on.


I have 8 Thunderwolves and 8 fenrisian wolves in the mail, together with MAS bases. The plan is to have one thunderwolf and one fenrisian wolf on each base to represent mount and rider. For standard I can have one wolf carrying a chewed banner in his jaws.
A more ambitious conversion would be one wolf lifting a leg and pissing over the Phoenix kings banner :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:23 pm 
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The list , as dicussed in the previous posts. I could give the Tyrant giant breaker for S8, but I'm not sure how often I would get to use that.

Mournfang are simply big and brutal. Five with banner is possibly overkill. Murdering infantry is their primary mission. The problem is shielding them from characters. In a pinch, the Tyrant can join the unit to handle challenges.

The additional hand weapon on firebelly is to have a chance of removing regeneration before the rest of the unit strikes at ASL.

OK list #11 - First time Tyrant

Characters:
Tyrant
GW, Glittering scales, talisman of preservation, Ruby ring of ruin 317

BSB
GW, Armor of destiny 191

Firebelly 207
xhw, Hellheart

Core:
7 ironguts 346
FC, Banner of swiftness

4 ogres 134
xhw, musician

4 ogres 134
xhw, musician

Special:
6 Maneaters 407
Brace of pistols, full command, gleaming pendant

5 Mournfang 430
Dragonhide banner, musician

3x1 sabretusks 63

ironblaster 170

EDIT: forgot ruby ring, and added points

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Playing HE's (lots of M5 ranked infantry) I've always enjoyed the multiple drops. But I'm realising already with the skirmishers and pivoting units of the WE's that this is less critical. I guess the sheer speed of Ogres comes into play here.

The comp I was just playing under limited Mournfangs + Ironblasters to 0-2. So both my opponents went for the obvious Ironblaster plus big unit of cats with Dragonhide. But we did wonder whether 2 'blasters or 2x Mournfang might have been more effective. I guess you are limited to one cannon anyway and I agree, I'd take it in your position.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:43 pm 
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Quote:
Tyrant
GW, Glittering scales, talisman of presernvation

Would like to see some more equipment on this guy. Potion of Strength/Toughness both go a long way, as do names. There are lots of T6 issues out there, as well as 1+ AS. In these cases, S8 is wonderful. Perhaps it's a bit overkill, but then again it's fairly cheap relative to the investment.

Quote:
BSB
GW, Armor of destiny

Firebelly
xhw, Hellheart


I like the Hellheart for an offensive list. March 14" T1, blast away (at worst, T2). BSB is solid.

Quote:
7 ironguts
FC, Banner of swiftness

I would make these as big as possible. Can you increase their size without going over point limits?

Quote:
4 ogres
xhw, musician

4 ogres
xhw, musician

Solid.

Quote:
6 Maneaters
Brace of pistols, full command, gleaming pendant

Solid

Quote:
5 Mournfang
Dragonhide banner, musician


Why 5? Mounts don't get supporting attacks.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:49 pm 
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Curu Olannon wrote:

Quote:
5 Mournfang
Dragonhide banner, musician


Why 5? Mounts don't get supporting attacks.


could be flank protection, that way he's still hitting with 2 and stomping with 2. Or running 5 wide against a horde.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:53 pm 
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True, but frontage is already an issue for this list. As such, running 5 wide will nearly never be something you'd want to do. I'd be looking to invest those points elsewhere, or just run 2x3.

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Glad to see you too decided to start a blog here Rusty. I've seen your army in RL and the pictures hardly do it justice. I am especially looking forward to your NM report against Christian Brubakken and his Sphinx extravaganza. Christian is an old friend which I helped introduce to warhammer (thought him everything I knew and now he beats me at every turn :wink: ).


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:07 pm 
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@Francis
Thank you :)
The NM reports are in the pipeline. Expect them this weekend. Christian was a tough opponent and the most interesting match of the

tournament.

@Curu, Lordcal, spellarcher
Why I went for 5 mournfang:
-Shameless bandwagonism. I got beaten over the head with them at NM, and have seen them in the list of several good players, so thought it

worth a try.
-Solid vs panic tests. Two have to die to take the first one.
-Destroys almost everything. On the charge they will on average kill 30 DE Corsairs. In case there's 40 in the unit, use the breath weapon

from the banner and kill them next turn, before mindrazor comes into play.
-Hard to take points from. I expect them to be a target, and lose at least one before combat. This way they will be hard to take down.
Downsides:
-Unwieldy. 250 mm wide.
-If deployed to one side of general and BSB, nobody else will be within range on that flank.
-Expensive.
-Prime target for redirection

I did plan to run them five wide and just run straight over everything in front of me. I'm sure that will end badly, but it's worth trying.


A far more tactical choice is probably 2x2 or 2x3 as Curu mentioned. They can combine charges on hordes, and are way more flexible. Also, less risk if one ends up in a hopeless matchup and dies.
Five with full command and dragonhide banner: 430
Three with musician: 220
Two with musician: 150

Woot! If I can find ten points elsewhere I can have two units for the price of one. Or 3x2 if it weren't for the ETC restrictions.



@Curu
The tyrant is fully loaded with ruby ring (95 pts of magic items). I agree with your point raised elsewhere that he will probably be in combat quickly and can't use the ring. However, I have found that nobody wants to fight the gutstar, and it is very seldom in a fight all game long. Usually it spends time getting into position for one or two devastating combats throughout a battle. S8 is probably nice, I will try that at some point.


I would have liked two firebellies. But under ETC I can't have both dispel scroll and hellheart. Also I can't find the points. What should I cut to grab another firebelly?


Ironguts can be increased to max nine. That would leave me with five ogres as the rest of the core. That would probably work out okay. Why max them out?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:44 pm 
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NM Battle 2

Tomb Kings
High Lich Priest, general, Lvl4, Nehekara, Scepter of Stability, 225
Lich Priest, lvl2, Death, Dispel Scroll, 130
19 archers, musician, champion, 134
10 archers, 60
10 archers, 60
10 archers, 60
5 horse archers, 70
5 horse archers, 70
5 horse archers, 70
5 horse archers, 70
War sphinx; fiery breath, 230
War sphinx; fiery breath, 230
War sphinx; fiery breath, 230
Nercosphinx, 225
Casket of Souls, 135
Total: 1999

This was going to be an interesting matchup. It was very obvious that the TK plan was to delay and shoot, and if possible tagteam my units
with sphinxes. My job would be to get through his multiple layers of chaff to slaughter the priests. Also, I would have to take care so he
couldn't charge my units with several sphinxes at once.

Deployment ended up with me in the centre and a slightly refused flank to the left for the undead. He also put up all his scouting horse archers as a second chaff screen. I duly charged in and started annihilating small units, while he tried to position his sphinxes. All the TK shooting was annoying, but didn't realy have much of an impact. My shooting did however, obliterating chaff units and opening charge lanes.

The cannon was under pressure from the necrosphinx from early on, and ended stuck in a tangle of charges and countercharges with the necrosphinx, basic ogres and horse achers. Not being able to overrun units that crumbled were a major drawback in this matchup. In the end necro and cannon bit the dust while the surviving ogre got killed off by Light of Death.

In the centre my ironguts and maneaters tried to wade though chaff. The Maneaters had the good luck to kill one sphinx on stand and shoot alone. After that they were able to find an opening for a long charge into ten archers. After destroying them an average overrun brought them straight into the bunker where the priests were hiding out among 19 archers. The high priest got of -S/T hex. but the priests and unit were still hacked to pieces, just in time before the cavalry in form of a sphinx arrived to destroy the remaining maneaters. That sphinx in turn got rearcharged and destroyed by the ironguts. The last sphinx had in the meantime managed to sneak past the ironguts looking for softer targets. He found the leadbelchers, who simply charged him and destroyed him there and then. It only remained for the ironguts to destroy the casket and game was done.

18-2

That was a lot harder than it sounds, with lots of manouvering to get into position, and the TK player did his very best. I guess I was lucky rolling sixes when taking on the sphinxes. On the other hand, the number of attacks my units can churn out is very high, and lacking thunderstomp the sphinxes were always at a disadvantage. The only real chance he had was in turn two, when he tried baiting me into a overrun where he could charge three sphinxes into the ironguts. I refused and instead reformed in a way that would give him max two sphinxes into the front, not incredible odds.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:38 pm 
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NM Battle 3
Warriors of Chaos
Sorceror Lord, Lvl 4, Death, Crown of command, Talisman of endurance, Fencers Blades, 370
Exalted Hero, BSB, Mark Of Khorne, Talisman of Preservation, Eye of the Gods, 200
Exalted Hero, Mark Of Khorne, Juggernaut, Fury of the Blood God, 195
22 Warriors of Chaos, Mark Of Khorne, Shields and Halberds,Ful command, Standard of Discipline, 449
41 Marauders, Flails, Mark Of Khorne, Full Command, 255
5 Warhounds, 30
5 Warhounds, 30
5 Skullcrushers,Musician and Banner, Banner of Eternal Flame, 340
Warshrine, 130
Total, 1999

My opponent was a very jolly fellow, with a surprising capacity for keeping his good mood throughout the battle.
The game itself was dictated by our army lists. I hung back and shot while he gunned forward. The warhounds died quickly and manouver superiority was assured. After that the warriors took a beating and the skullchrushers lost a few to canon fire, before the cannon destroyed itself. A high point was sniping his sorcerer lord with the maneaters.

While the elites of chaos slogged forward the ironguts were jockeying for position.
As soon as I saw an opening the ironguts charged the warshrine and destroyed it, the overrun bringing them into the marauder horde at a not optimal frontage for the maurauders. This was possible because the shrine were 1" to the side of, and slightly forward of the maurauders. The marauder were destroyed in three combat turns, after which the Khorne warriors copped the remaining ironguts in the flank and were trampled. Both warriors and skullchrushers had been held up by sabretusks until this point, so there wasn't much the chaos player could do.

I was planning to multicharge his remaing skullchrusher to end the battle, but he charged his Juggernaut hero out instead, and destroyed the leadbelchers. The skullchrushers managed to get into a position where charging them would have given a very uncertain outcome, so I left them alone and ran away.

18-2

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:43 pm 
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NM Battle 4
Ogre Kingdoms
Slaughtermaster, general, lvl 4, lore of the great maw, ironfist, crown of command, talisman of preservation, dragonhelm, biting blade, 388
Bruiser, bsb, great weapon, heavy armour, rune maw, 201
18 ironguts, fcg, look ou gnoblar, standard of discipline, 819
5 Mounfang, heavy armour, Standard, Musician, ironfist
1 sabretusk, 21
1 sabretusk, 21
Ironblaster, 170
Total: 1987


Before this game (i.e. the previous evening) I thought I at least had a fifty/fifty chance to win, if I were able to mournfang and ironblaster early, then surround the irongut horde and multicharge it. I was soon shown the error of my ways.

The other ogre player got the first turn and moved up aggresively. Maybe to agressively with his mournfang. They were within charging distance of both maneaters and ogres, and outside of BSB range. If I could break them I would overrun almost onto the ironblaster, and the guthorde would be isolated. I charged.
After much bloodletting he held on "7". Next turn he got off all three augments on the surviving three mournfang: strenght, toughness and regeneration! He also managed to charge in his ironblaster on to the overhanging ogres. I lost both my units. It was now clear that I didn't have a chance to kill the guthorde. Operation "Run Away" was in effect. This almost worked. In the end he caught my ironguts in turn 6 and killed them all. His gutstar outstared my gutstar by a factor of 3:1.

When played by a competent general, which my opponent is, the guthorde has a surprising reach. With crown of command he can simply reform as wide as he can march with no fear of being charged, then charge whatever he can see. Next turn he can reform again. In effect the guthorde can move 12" sideways this way. If somebody does charge him he can easily reform to either horde for max killyness, or deep formation to break steadfast.

0-20

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:45 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 12:31 pm
Posts: 204
Battle 5
Warriors of Chaos
Sorcerer Lord of Tzeentch: Disc of Tzeentch, General, Lvl 3, Tzeentch,Mark of Tzeentch, Shrieking Blade, Dragon Helm, Dispel scroll, Golden Eye of Tzeentch, Favour of the Gods, Stream of Corruption, 370
Exalted Hero of Tzeentch: Chaos steed,BSB, Mark of Tzeentch,Biting Blade, The Bronze Armour of Zhrakk, Talisman of Endurance, 211
18 Chaos Warriors: Standard, Musican, Shield, Mark of Tzeentch, 326
12 Chaos Warriors: Standard, Musican, Shield,210
5 Chaos Warhounds: 30
5 Chaos Warhounds: 30
14 Chaos Knights of Tzeentch: Full command, Mark of Tzeentch, Blasted Standard, 670
1 Chaos Warshrine of Tzeentch:Mark of Tzeentch, 150
Total: 1997

Pretty much a refight of battle three. I shot, he advanced, and then I killed the survivors in Hth after setting up the charges with sabretusks. He did make it easy for me at one point, placing his disc rider behind a warrior unit about to be charged by ironguts, and the inevitable overrun caught him. My leadbelchers on the other hand had a spot of misfortune. After almost destroying the tzeentch warriors by shooting they charged the rest, then failed the restrain test for pursuit and ran straight into the rear of chaos knights. That didn't go well.

The game was decided when the ironguts returned from their disc-kicking to rearcharge the chaosknights, who were still struggling with sabretusks everywhere.

In hindsight, the old version of chaos warriors really struggles with shooty ogres. All my shooting is designed kill their best troops, and ogres can also outmanouvre them. I'm interested in seeing how this affects the new Chaos book. Less panic resistance, pricier infantry, and more monsters with low wound count should make them more vulnerable, not less.

20-0

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