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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:35 pm 
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John Rainbow wrote:
Could you use some of the old dragon models from GW - like the ones you use for eagles - as Warhounds? Or are they too big?


They are too big I`m afraid. I do however like the idea of using something bigger than one model per base. A double base with 3 unique bases could work: I see myself frequently using this unit 3+2 so 3 models in front with a double behind could definitely work.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:18 pm 
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So the updated list. First tryout tomorrow night!

Lord Dragon Talisman of Endurance Mark of Tzeentch Charmed Shield Warrior`s Bane Soul Feeder => 600
Sorceror Lvl 2 Dispel Scroll Enchanted Shield Relic Sword => 185
Exalted BSB Mark of Tzeentch Daemonic Mount Barding Talisman of Preservation Third Eye of Tzeentch Shield Tormentor Sword => 258

Characters: 1043

13 Warriors
- Mark of Nurgle
- Halberds
- Full Command
- Banner of Swiftness
=> 292

13 Warriors
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Shields
- Champion, Musician
=> 241

5 Warhounds Vanguard => 40

1 Chariot, Mark of Slaanesh => 115
1 Chariot, Mark of Slaanesh => 115

Core: 803

1 Chimerae Breath Weapon Regeneration => 275
1 Chimerae Breath Weapon Regeneration => 275

Special: 550

Total: 2396

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:32 pm 
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I've spent most of the evening converting what will be the Tzeentch Warriors. I intend to make this entire army with custom bases and I believe I'll continue the grey-white-ish theme, because I think it complements the dark colours really well. Anyway, for now I mounted them on normal bases using greenstuff, just to get a proper feel of what they look like:

Image

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As always, C&C welcome :)

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:23 am 
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My list for this evening with Tomb Kings. Comp gives me 100 points over Curu.

Lvl 4 Nehek, earthing rod
Lvl 4 light, scroll

19 archers, champ
19 archers, champ
4 Chariots
5 Horse arhcers
5 Horse Archers

Warsphinx, fiery breath
Warsphinx, fiery breath
38 Tomb Guard, FC

Casket
Hierotitan
Screaming Skull Catapult
Screaming Skull Catapult


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:47 am 
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Nice to see elves with hand weapon and shield. That must be a first since what, 3rd edition?

I think the chaos list is very vulnerable to psychology if outside range of general and BSB. I guess that will be one of you main challenges throughout the battle, keeping everyone in line. I'm actually surprised Strange didn't go for Death on his mage to leech those chimeras. Also, do the screaming skull catapults have screaming skulls?

@Strange: Good luck keeping your mage alive
@Curu: good luck not running
:D

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:19 am 
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rusty wrote:
I'm actually surprised Strange didn't go for Death on his mage to leech those chimeras. Also, do the screaming skull catapults have screaming skulls?
:D


It's a continuation of the list from NM, so did not really make choices based on this encounter. The catapults do not have the skulls of the foe upgrade (-1 ld). Though, atleast the titan has spirit leech on a higher ld than the Chimeras. Between light of death, shems bruning gaze, banishment, spirit leech and 2 flaming catapults there will be some ranged pressure on his flyers.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:53 pm 
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@Strange - thanks for the list! As for Death vs Light, I'm starting to think that Death might be the better option in general: with OK looking so strong it sure is a nice counter.

@rusty - yeah, the LD is poor. That's why I have an 18" bubble (hopefully) and re-rolls available.

The conversions I made yesterday are based on a lot of different kits. Parts were taken from the following ones:
- Wood Elf Archers (swords)
- High Elf Arcers (swords and shield arms, as well as cloaks and a kneeling body)
- Spearelves (shields, arms, lower body, upper body, heads)
- White Lion chariot (helms, body)
- Lothern Sea Guard (entire model + musician horn)
- Swordmaster (entire model)
- Repeater Crew (body, sword)
- Phoenix Guard (head, sword)
- Silver Helms (head, shield arm, sword, shield)
- Dragon Princes (upper body, shield arm, shield)
- Prince & Noble kit (entire model)

I think that bringing all these different parts together create a very dynamic feel for the unit. I'm hoping that the painting will further accentuate this. I'm wondering if I have enough to make the PG equally cool: the models by themselves are quite good but they're not as diverse as this lot. I'll have to see what opportunities I have. I also have a very nice BSB conversion going on, but I'm lacking a couple of parts to bring it all together.

For the Chariots I settled on Empire Demigryphs. They're size is about right and I think they'll fit right in. I have to greenstuff some armour areas to fade the empire icons etc but that shouldn't be too hard. They'll also give me an opportunity to break up the otherwise black feel of the army - something my White Lions are currently accomplishing with their extensive use of white. The Warhounds will very likely be Elven horses, I might add an Ellyrian Reaver to make it look like he's leading a group.

So, to complete the army I need the following:
- Another box of PG
- Another noble/prince kit
- 3 Demigryphs
- 1 High Elf Dragon
- 1 Dark Elf Dragon

Considering the price of all of this combined I want to play a few games using proxies to ensure that this is what I really want to do. Also, I intend to get custom bases from Micro Art Studios (I need 27 25x25 and 2 50x100).

First of all though, tonight's game against Strange! I'll keep you posted as soon as I can ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:50 pm 
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Battle Report!

My first ever game with another army than High Elves. Playing Strange's Tomb Kings (lists a few posts up), I knew roughly what I was facing. The army I played is very blunt, with 1500 points (roughly) invested in combat characters and monsters). This will be a quick report by the way, since I don't think there's a whole lot to dwell about save for the story the pictures tell.

He had significantly more drops than me but I realized in time that he was going for refused flank, despite of some sub-optimal firing routes due to hills. To counter this, I placed all the 4 powerhouses directly opposite his corner, with most of them out of sight of both the catapults.

Magic saw me grab Miasma and Pit, while he got Shem's, Pha's, Banishment, Birona's, Ward-save, Movement, -S/-T and <can't remember last> from his 2 level 4's. With his 3 bound spells in addition, he had enough spells to choose from!

I was able to grab first turn and pretty much moved everything at full speed ahead. With so many targets and a scroll (something I'm not used to!) I was confident I could stop the worst and still crash into his horde of Tomb Guard. Magic saw me get Pit through and I rolled a Hit, killing a catapult. This was the table at the end of my T1:

Image
Extreme left: Warhounds moving around Archers. The 50x100 bases with a single Lion model are chariots. The 50x100 with Drakes are Chimerae. The BSB is the BSB, Dragon is dragon, Swordmasters are Nurgle Warriors and the grey models are Tzeentch Warriors. Strange had the Tomb Guard Horde in front with Hierophant in the Archers behind, the Light mage on his own

Strange then responded with Pha`s on the Tomb Guard and scored an IF Shem's @S6 on one Chimera, bringing it down to 1W. The shooting phase finished it, but did little else. His Sphinxes tried to charge but failed, needing 11+ or something like that. On the East, his Chariots charged the Nurgle Warriors, dealt 7W but lost 2, I held on Steadfast.

Image

I charged the horde with BSB + Dragon + Chimera. Despite losing the General to KB, scoring snake eyes for thunderstomps and having the BSB locked in a challenge, I won by a massive amount and reduced them to a dozen, after crumble. The Eastern flank saw the Nurgle Warriors clear up the chariots while the rest moved into position to kill the rest of his chaff.

Magic didn`t do anything as the Pit scattered away from a Sphinx.

Image

Strange moved the Sphinxes to counter-charging positions, however he couldn't help the TG out enough with magic to survive the ensuing combat. I didn't reform as I was looking to kill his mages next turn as they were right in front of me.

Image

I charge the Hierotitan`s bunker with the BSB + Dragon, the Chimera goes into the Light mage. The East clean up the rest of his troops and magic does nothing. Combat sees me kill both mages and the bunker unit with ease. The Chimera overruns into the Casket of Souls. Crumble tests kill off the remaining catapult and wounds the Hierotitan once.

Picture taken after Strange's movement phase

Image

The Hierotitan + Sphinx charge the BSB. In his magic phase he gets an IF Spirit Leech off on the Dragon. Having 4W left and LD8, same as the Titan, I'm not too worried. Strange has other plans though, and as I roll a '1' he rolls a '5' to take it away, cleanly.

At this point things go downhill. He has 4 constructs left, and this is the rest of the battle:
- BSB fails to wound any constructs and eventually dies, failing an LD7 re-rollable.
- Chariot rear-charged a Sphinx but did nothing for 3 combat rounds, eventually died.
- Mage miscast once, getting a 3 -> failing the 4+ to survive.
- Chimera kills the Casket, then a Sphinx on combat res, then the last Sphinx on combat res.
- Strange passes his crumble tests like a baws, keeping the Sphinxes alive.

In the end, it's a truly bloody battlefield. Strange had nothing left, and I was left with:
- 3 Nurgle Warriors
- 1 Chariot
- 10 Tzeentch Warriors
- 1 Chimera on 2W

Fun fact: for 7 combat rounds I didn't manage to score a single wound on the Sphinxes. I must have literally rolled at least 40 hits. In the end, they both died on combat resolution from rear charges etc.

Fun fact 2: the surviving Chimera did the following (MVP!):
- helped kill the Tomb Guard
- killed the Lvl 4 Light mage (alone)
- killed the Casket (alone)
- killed the Hierotitan (alone)
- crumbled a Sphinx on combat res (alone)
- crumbled a second Sphinx on combat res (with Warriors, wouldn't have mattered though)

A very fun and fast game with lots of insane rolls. I was very impressed with the sheer combat power of the monsters, though getting first turn was key with regards to closing the gap quick and assaulting before he could organize any defenses. In the end, I was slightly less than 1000 points ahead, a 16-4 victory to the Elves... Err. Chaos. Whatever ;)

Thanks for reading, C&C appreciated! In particular, I'm hoping some of you have any ideas for the deployment for the both of us, since it ended up being so important. Seeing as we have a resident TK expert (Jimmy!), hopefully Strange can get some input, too :)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:34 am 
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Thanks for the report Curu although I'm far from a TK expert!

On Strange's list its very similar to what I've ran in the past however I find that the Warsphinx are rather underwhelming unless you get lucky rolls, that's of course if they get into combat dodging spells and cannon balls! No Prince in the Tomb Guard Strange? :(

On your deployment Strange I think everything is far too spread out for each unit of mutually support one another. Were you afraid of the pit killing your plans? What were your initial targets in Curu's army anyway?

I sure wish my Warsphinx could chew up 40 attacks and not blink!

Sorry I don't have much input to your army Curu as you can probably tell I'm a little more focused on the Undead right now!

How did you find your list anyway? Enjoy playing it? Any gaping holes you can identify at the moment?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:47 am 
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I agree with Jimmy's comments on the TK side of things though I'm not sure if the army would be better served with less TG and more maneuvrable units/blockers as it's a magic heavy list. As for the HE (Chaos) side of the equation I don't actually have the book yet but hopefully I will get it in the next couple of days and can make some useful comments on your list Curu.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:08 am 
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Jimmy wrote:
On Strange's list its very similar to what I've ran in the past however I find that the Warsphinx are rather underwhelming unless you get lucky rolls, that's of course if they get into combat dodging spells and cannon balls! No Prince in the Tomb Guard Strange? :(

On your deployment Strange I think everything is far too spread out for each unit of mutually support one another. Were you afraid of the pit killing your plans? What were your initial targets in Curu's army anyway?



Thanks for asking the questions Jimmy. I find the Warsphinxes very usefull, they shrug of high strength attacks which seem to be everywhere these days. The other option would be snake surfers, but they just seem fragile. On the prince, its just a huge investment that seems to die to easy. I would have to shell out about 150 points. I thought about it but did not really see where i could cut back that would make it worthwhile (SSC+ a few TG maybe?).

During deployment I was at a loss. You see all those hills around my zone, they were blocking huge swaths of the battlefield from view. I went for the corner were LoS was "best". On spreading out; In essence its not really that spread. The horsemen are scouts and were placed there last to keep the warriors away from my main for as long as possible. Chariots were plunked down first drop center field. The archers on the far left I placed last. They just did not have a good way to contribute in my main zone. I felt they were just a liability for easy charges for flyers to come in and take them out in the second combat fase and be ready to charge again in his turn :?

I do feel my deployment lost me the game. sphinxes were to far back to help the TG. I was to focues on him rolling up my flank that I forgot he could just charge head on with all those powerfull flyers.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:25 am 
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Good answers mate hence the reason I love this game and different people can make different units work. For me I'd go a unit of knights over Warsphinx any day of the week, I don't really rate chariots at all as I think they're missing something but admittedly I haven't invested the time nor the interest like I did with Necropolis Knight in making them work.

Interesting points about the Tomb Prince but I beg you to try it. Perhaps drop the Light Priest down to a level 2 or even run a level 1 death for spirit leech with the Ld 9 Prince in tow, Trickster's Helm or Armour of Fortune and a great weapon is all you need and of course the Tomb Guard is sporting WS5 and taking a few less casualties making them a little harder to hit.

Don't drop the SSC's under any circumstances, they just provide such a vital role in the army and nothing can fill that void. Hope to see you lock horns with Curu again though and see what resistance you can give his 'confused elves'! :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:17 pm 
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@Jimmy - I think you`ve come a long way since you started TK and you surely get way more out of them than most other people I see. As such, I`ll hold you as our resident expert until I`m proven wrong ;) Thanks for the input by the way, appreciated :) Usually when I write reports I`m looking for point of views from both sides, because it helps me understand the game better. As such, providing only TK input still helps me out greatly: I don`t play TK and I don`t know their inner workings, so when someone points out mistakes I can more easily recognize optimal tactics in the future and hopefully have a counter.

@John Rainbow - The list is already evolving, feel free to comment when you have the book yourself :)

@Strange - you managed to keep the entire core pretty much away from the fighting for the entire game. Considering that it`s a total of 800 points, I`d say that`s pretty successful. Since I got first turn, the hills didn`t matter that much, either. However, I think by deploying further behind you would`ve had more time to deal with the fliers (at least the BSB, with M7).

Onto some list updates. I realize I went a little over-board with my core. Just because it`s vastly superior to our own doesn`t mean it`s optimal. In this case I think I was a little blinded by its power. As such, I have decided to strip the core down to a bare minimum to further focus on this army`s core: speed and hitting power:

Lord Dragon Talisman of Endurance Mark of Tzeentch Charmed Shield Dragonbane Gem Soul Feeder => 600
Sorceror Lvl 2 Dispel Scroll => 170
Exalted BSB Mark of Tzeentch Daemonic Mount Talisman of Preservation Third Eye of Tzeentch Shield Warrior Bane => 243

Characters: 1013

21 Warriors (294)
- Mark of Tzeentch (42)
- Shields (21)
- Champion, Musician (20)
- Standard w/+1M (25)
=> 402

5 Warhounds Vanguard => 40
5 Warhounds Vanguard => 40

1 Chariot, Mark of Khorne => 120

Core: 602

1 Chimerae (230) Breath Weapon (30) Regeneration (15) => 275
1 Chimerae (230) Regeneration (15) => 245

Special: 520

3 Skullcrushers, musician, ensorcelled weapons, standard, banner of eternal flames - 264

Rare: 264

Total: 2399

Thoughts?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:43 pm 
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Ok so I pretty much the entire army figured out now:
- Warriors will be the converted HE kits + Eldar Avatar (painted as a statue) for a unit filler.
- Warhounds will be flamers of Tzeentch, converted to look like fire elementals
- Skullcrushers will be demigryphs with converted PG on top
- Chariot will be the Tiranoc chariot with PG crew
- BSB will be converted from the Noble/Prince kit
- Chimerae will be Dragons

I bought Demigryphs today. Here are some WiP shots of the first conversion:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Greenstuff will of course be added to hide Empire insignia. I also have a lot of spare HE parts, might try and attach something if it fits. That way, any non-smooth greenstuffing is covered as well :)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:52 pm 
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Cool!

Needs some elf bitz pimping, and it'll be perfect.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:28 pm 
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This is shaping up really nicely Curu. I hope you don't get too preoccupied with the dark side though!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:11 pm 
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@rusty - Indeed I need to pimp them! I was surprised how well the parts fit though (I had to use quite a bit of greenstuff to connect the torso with the lower part of the body, but still), the unit really looks dynamic.

@John Rainbow - The army is still High Elves, it just plays with different rules ;) There are a number of reasons why I chose to start WoC now, but suffice is to say that this playstyle really appeals to me and no other army in the game can do it, in my opinion. However, I strongly believe that when our new book comes out, something similar to this will be doable. Why not get a head start? ;)

Now, onto the pimpin` part... Expect more pictures soon!

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:25 pm 
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Some more WiP shots:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:04 am 
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Those Skullcrushers are really cool. I'm interested to see Curu the modeller come to the fore as opposed to Curu the calculating general who sweeps all before him!

Curu Olannon wrote:
I strongly believe that when our new book comes out, something similar to this will be doable. Why not get a head start? ;)

I agree with this. Hitting hard and fast seems to be what the HE do best and I can't see that changing any time soon. I'm am unbelievably excited for a new HE book if this is the quality of stuff going forward. I really like the last few releases GW has made. I think both Fantasy and 40k have had some really good stuff in the last couple of months. Fingers crossed it doesn't change!

... and that us hardcore HE players (not the turncoat Chaos ones :wink: ) actually see a new book this year as promised.

P.S. Chaos Elf list thoughts to come sometime soon now I've had a chance to look at the book!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:46 am 
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Well I have been doing quite a bit of modelling on the HE-HE army as well, most notably the cavalry prince and the BSB. I`m a big fan of making the army really stand out and look different. With this book, I have a chance at truly making something unique - between 3 Dragons, an Eldar avatar as a unit filler and the Demigryphs, no Warhammer army will even remotely resemble it. Also, I believe the flamers will look really nice as Fire Elementals to round out the list. I intend to get hold of the HE Dragon fairly soon, as well as buy up a lot of MAS bases, which`ll make putting things together and proxing a lot easier.

I hope that the future will hold a mix of painting, modelling and playing with this army. I am beginning to get a feel of how it works, which makes it all a lot easier.

I agree that the last few releases have been nice, they present a variety of ways to play and seem to be relatively well balanced. It`s perhaps a bit early to say, but it`s at least not as far off as some things have been previously. I am indeed looking forward to a new HE book, but that`s mostly because I believe they`ll change the dynamics of the army. The current HE army is, no matter how you turn it, dependent on squishy elites. While this can of course be a viable playstyle, it`s monotone and doesn`t give much room for list twists: we all end up taking WL/SM/PG anyways as there is no way around them. Imagine being able to ditch the infantry in a Dragonarmy (perhaps having a solid block of useful core) and instead take monstrous cavalry and powerful flyers as special and rare!

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:27 pm 
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With regards to the HE Dragon conversion, I`m simply going to steal Asterion`s Dragon. Not only is it a terrific looking conversion, I also think it`s fairly easy to accomplish (with the exception of sculpting the greenstuff) and it should be easy to de-mount the Dragon for transportation. I`ll probably buy the Dragon today and start converting it straight away, if I can find the parts I need. That should also give me the parts I need to finish the BSB conversion.

Relevant links:
Asterion`s Dragon
Asterion`s fire-sculpting tutorial

There is still work to be done on the demigryphs but it`s tedious. I`m hoping they`ll be done before too long :)

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:06 pm 
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Very creative Curu! Chaos Elves, how I miss my Cult of Slaanesh!

It's hard to disagree that almost all HE armies are to a lesser or greater extent dependent on the elite infantry. Shadow BoH lists are the main ones that spring to mind as possibly avoiding this but they are a bit hit and miss. There's also Wamphyri's Dragon list but even he seems to be including some elite infantry now. I think we all hope that the Core will become more able to take on front-line duties, maybe giving us more flexibility.

As a hardcore HE player I agree with John though, there's no way I'd head off to play anything else...

:lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:08 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
As a hardcore HE player I agree with John though, there's no way I'd head off to play anything else...

:lol:


I've tried some other armies, but nothing eclipses high elves for me. Other elves are okay, and the rest is rubbish. :P

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:42 pm 
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@SpellArcher - thanks! The thing with these elves is that I`m not making the Elves chaos-y, I`m more keeping them in line with my current theme and as such they can work in both forces.

As for ditching High Elves, I don`t see myself dropping them entirely. However, there are other reasons why I`m trying out a new army as well, I`ll elaborate more on this part later.

@Elithmar of Lothern - I think a lot of armies are fun to play. Granted, I have never played anything but HE (and now WoC) on my own, but I have participated in a lot of multi-player games etc over the years and I really fancy a lot of different playstyles.

Some WiP shots of the BSB:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

I`m really happy with how the model turned out, in particular the griffon prince head provided the icing on the cake. Now, onto the Dragon project...

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:57 pm 
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I learned a lot playing Lizardmen and Dogs of War in the past but in the final analysis, I missed the speed and flexibility of elves too much.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:49 pm 
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I hear you, I`m guessing I`ll miss the ASF, high-strength razor-sharp elite infantry as well ;)

I updated the battle reports` index - viewtopic.php?f=67&t=35318&p=714036#p714036 Take a look and see if you missed any reports, or just go back and check some of the old games :) I find a lot of them highly interesting and have read several of them multiple times.

WoC list in detail with description and rationale coming up!

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:56 pm 
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Chaos Lord on Chaos Dragon with:
- Talisman of Endurance
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Charmed Shield
- Dragonbane Gem
- Soul Feeder => 600

I know that the Daemon Prince is objectively a stronger model than the Lord on Dragon in low-point games because I cannot fill the Lord`s allowance (not even remotely so), which makes him a bit so-so compared to what he could be. Regardless, getting a 2+ AS, 4+ Ward, a chance to ignore the first cannonball and having a 2+ vs fire is very good, defensively. Soul Feeder makes it really dangerous to let this beast into combat, as every wound he generates potentially lets him heal up. The main reason I run this setup instead of the Daemon Prince is because I love Dragons. I also believe that the offensive power here could be valuable: between 11 attacks, 2 breath weapons and thunderstomp, this model is almost unmatched in potential killing power.

Chaos Shadow Sorceror with:
- Level 2
- Dispel Scroll => 170

Cheap and simple, not much to add here. Shadow was chosen because miasma is a wonderful first spell which helps this army out so much. Also, Pit and Steed are potential game-breakers (imagine moving 40" in one turn!).

Exalted Hero with:
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Daemonic Mount
- Talisman of Preservation
- Third Eye of Tzeentch
- Shield
- Warrior Bane => 243

3 wounds, 3+ ward with re-rolling 1`s, 2+ armour save and magical attacks to boot. Did I mention he`s M8, causes fear and has a mount which provides further S5, magical attacks? This guy is a real steal at 243 points and will hopefully provide a solid centre with the flyers. His main weakness is losing combat, even with the re-roll it doesn`t take a lot if he`s caught on his own to make him fail the break-test and insta-die. Having him on a Daemonic Steed gives me an additional option: blocking cannonballs. With a 3+ ward and re-rolling 1`s, I feel it`s easily worth it to help the Lord out against e.g. Empire.

Characters: 1013
A heavy investment, but I feel it`s worth it. The characters provide the necessary core of the army, around which my monsters can work their magic.

21 Warriors of Chaos with
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Shields
- Champion, Musician
- Standard w/+1M
=> 402

Solid block to form up the rear echelon. I decided against giving them Halberds because there are so many other high-strength attacks in this army. Tzeentch was chosen over Nurgle because at the moment I feel the ward is better. Playtesting might reveal something else though, if it does I`ll simply change it: with the same points cost it doesn`t matter too much.

5 Warhounds with:
- Vanguard => 40
5 Warhounds with:
- Vanguard => 40

Not much to say here. They`re not Eagles and with so many big monsters I`ll hopefully not need them to be, but Vanguard is terrific and having some fast chaff to help out the monsters will surely be nice!

1 Chariot of Chaos with:
- Mark of Khorne => 120

Strong, reliable, powerful. This thing is immune to psychology (until it loses combat) and puts out D6+1 impact hits, along with 6 (!) attacks from the crew and 4 from the mounts. On average, that`s a total of 14,5 attacks on the charge, of which 4,5 hit automatically, the majority being S5. Its main disadvantage is its movement value, with only M8 and no march it`ll take some time to get across the table compared to the faster elements. Regardless, it`s core so it`s all good ;)

Core: 602
I decided to keep this to a minimum: there are so many other, powerful things to take which I consider superior to this build.

1 Chimera with:
- Breath Weapon
- Regeneration => 275
1 Chimera with:
- Regeneration => 245

The bread and butter of the army. This unit entry alone made me decide to play Warriors of Chaos, or rather High Elves with Warriors of Chaos rules. This allows for more Dragons (model-wise) and more Dragons = more fun. They put out a ridiculous amount of 8 (!!) average attacks EACH, at the same strength as the Lord`s Dragon. That is not even counting the thunderstomps or breath weapon. The relatively low survivability coupled with the high cost makes this is a truly interesting unit, and I hope I can utilize them well.

Special: 520

3 Skullcrushers with:
- musician
- ensorcelled weapons
- standard bearer
- banner of eternal flames => 264

The last of the heavy hitters, which will accompany my flying circus. Why not a third chimera? That`s easy to answer: this list is tailored towards a comp. which doesn`t allow more than three flyers. I still believe the Skullcrushers can provide a solid addition to the flyers, while not quite as fast as I`d hoped, their hitting power is beyond insane. With Ensorcelled Weapons and Daemonic Attacks from the mounts, I have enough flexibility (coupled with the BSB) to take on Ethereal targets.

Rare: 264

Total: 2399

Overall, the army packs a total of ~1600 points which can all march at least 14" per turn. This is huge and means I can engage most enemies by T2. The rest of the points is spent on units which sole purpose is to aid these monsters as best they can. I imagine my worst enemies are magic heavy and/or numerous. The first there`s not much to do as Warriors of Chaos, almost regardless of setup, the latter I`m hoping combined strength will allow me to obliterate portions at a time. Every army has something worth going after. If it`s truly MSU, the monsters should be able to engage 1-on-1. That`s the beauty of multi-unit, strong flyers: whether they`re engaging the same target or multiple smaller ones doesn`t matter, they can reach the enemy fast and combine or separate as they please.

Ironically I don`t think my worst enemies are siege-heavy armies. There`s simply too much to shoot! Dwarfs for example will struggely if just 2 out of the 5 fast units will reach them, and the Tzeentch Warriors with 3+/5++ will give most Dwarf elites a real run for their money. However, Dark Elves with Lvl 4 Shadow and Lvl 1 Metal is a real nightmare if played by an able general. In these cases, I have to plan way ahead because in these cases a lot of situations will be set up to such a degree that when they occur, you have no control. Examples include monsters charging in, getting stuck and subsequently getting counter-charged by a mindrazored unit or whatever. While the monster has Fly and this shouldn`t happen in an ideal world, you can still often end up in a situation where you have no immediate control of what`s going on because it`s determined by former turns. Planning multiple turns ahead in Warhammer is extremely hard if it has to be done specifically, but it´s something I need to get better at so may as well start now.

A last weakness to note is rock-hard characters. The annoying little rule which forces Chaos champions to challenge and accept challenges if able creates a lot of spots which are really uncomfortable. While the baseline of a Chaos Lord is impressive (it truly should be for over 200 points!), his offense just doesn`t cut it against the worst of the worst. The High Elf Star Dragon, Daemons` Bloodthirster, VC tooled up Lord will all likely tear him to pieces if built correctly. This is where I believe working with the BSB in tandem is crucial, because he can tie up a LOT with his defensive tools. To this end, I really would`ve liked having +1AS on him, for 1+ total (instead of his current 2+), however I cannot find the points for barding in the list (same cost as a Swordmaster) because there`s nothing more to strip down! Having an extra inch of movement in return is not a bad deal though, as the difference between a 14" march and a 16" march on T1 is bigger than it sounds.

I`m really looking forward to see how this plays against tough lists and opponents. I`ll likely play it in light-to-medium comped environments, with no goals just yet. I will, of course, keep you guys posted on the progress, my thoughts and, as always, the analysis. The modelling side of the hobby truly manifests itself in the creation of this army though, I have some unique models and units coming up and so far I`m really liking how they`re turning out!

I have a tentative re-match against Strange on Monday (unsure whether he`ll be using TK or WoC), so that`s likely my next stop.

C&C very welcome! I`ve noticed that often times, especially when I`ve written bigger pieces (such as this wall of text), people send me PMs instead of asking in this thread. While I don`t mind this at all, I truly believe it`s better to ask questions here solely because more people are able to answer. I am by no means omniscient with regards to Warhammer or High Elves, and indeed my progress and success has been shaped vastly by the support I have gotten from the very members on this forum. As such, I consider their input as tremendously valuable, and so should you :)

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:36 pm 
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I'm afraid to say I didn't read all the text, but it's an interesting list. The sheer speed will make it a tough opponent for most others armies, I would think.

The skullcrushers might even be better than another chimera, just for variety. Being much more tough, they give you the option to hold up dangerous units for a while, although I don't know if there are any units you fear with this army. :lol:

It'll be interesting to see how this list does in future.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:01 pm 
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Elithmar of Lothern wrote:
I'm afraid to say I didn't read all the text, but it's an interesting list. The sheer speed will make it a tough opponent for most others armies, I would think.

The skullcrushers might even be better than another chimera, just for variety. Being much more tough, they give you the option to hold up dangerous units for a while, although I don't know if there are any units you fear with this army. :lol:

It'll be interesting to see how this list does in future.


Yeah I don`t expect everyone to read it all ;)

As for the Skullcrushers being tougher than a third Chimera, this is indeed true. With a total of 9W on a 1+ armour save, they`re fairly hard to bring down, even though they lack the regen of the Chimera. I trust that they are fast enough to provide what I need in most cases, though to be honest the difference against super-defensive armies will be that charges are more likely to happen T3 than T2. The upside of this is that with M5, the Warriors are able to keep up and participate in T3 charges as well.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:40 pm 
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Curu Olannon wrote:
The upside of this is that with M5, the Warriors are able to keep up and participate in T3 charges as well.


I like it - two waves of attacks.

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