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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:47 pm 
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@cycloptic squirrel - automatic S4 hits really hurt, yes ;)

@rusty - thanks for clarifying. Will comment on tactical things somewhat now and more later.

:: High Elves Turn 2 ::

I see what an opening rusty's provided me with - leaving the comet alone in the middle of nothing allows my WLs to take the chance of engaging the house. The benefits of winning this fight truly are amazing: the West Dryads + Treeman will take about forever to get anywhere useful since they can't march. What's more, I can exit the house on the far side to directly threaten his bunkers and go with the Prince! Long story short, I charge the central Dryads, which no longer possess S5, T5. The Dragon charges the Treekin to the front, hoping its sheer destructive powers will help me out. The Dragon Princes elect not to charge out of fear of being completely evaporated. They instead move up just outside his hero's charge arc, as does Naenor.

The West shuffles to prepare for the incoming hero.

Magic is 7v5. I start off with Iceshard Blizzard on the Treekin, which is dispelled. I then cast Thunderbolt on the Netling-hero and this draws his crucial scroll out, prior to any important combats. Shooting deals a single wound to his West hero.

Combat: the Lions roll insanely well as I hit with every single attack: as Dryads are I6 this was very lucky indeed. With the Amulet of Light, they easily perish and I occupy the house. Saerith deals 3W to the Treekin, but they save one, leaving all 6 alive to hit Faeria. Rusty gets a lot of hits and ends up with something like 5 wounds, but luckily I save 2 of them: leaving Faeria with 4W. The ancient Dragon hits back hard and between her firebreath and attacks with the Other Trickster's Shard, I score a massive 10W total for 3 dead Treekin! They lose badly but hold on steadfast (many thanks to BSB being nearby!).

Image

:: Wood Elves Turn 3 ::

In my opinion, this was the most crucial turn of the game. Rusty basically had to commit to the Prince with two heroes, including the BSB. Additionally, his West flying hero had to try and break through my small units. To this end, his BSB flanked Saerith on one side, the Netling on the other. The last hero engaged the big Archers, which chose to stand and shoot. Unfortunately, no wounds were caused. Magic is 7v7 and my choices are easy: dispel Wyssan's. He throws an amber spear which kills a single Lion. Shooting sees him kill another Lion or two, hard cover proving to be a friend.

The all-crucial cc phase sees his West hero fluff it and my Archers even deal him a wound: they also hold on Steadfast. Saerith and Faeria manage a single wound on the Netlinghero but I lose by 2: holding on LD8 re-rollable proves fairly easy though and I'm fairly certain I can wipe the board as I please by now!

Image

Thoughts on the situation and the following turns are very welcome :)

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:36 pm 
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On an unrelated note to this game, I want to take a look at the best scoring HE lists from the ETC. I've picked out the top 5 HE lists/generals from the competition and want to discuss the various lists a little bit. They are as follows:

89 BP - Daniel Jidefur, High Elves
Archmage: General, Lvl 4, Life, Dragonbane Gem, Ironcurse Icon, Seerstaff of saphery, 300
Archmage: Lvl 4, Death, Annulian crystal, Skeinsliver, 325
Noble: Bsb, Dragon armour, Great weapon, Charmed shield, Loremasters cloak, 169
33 Spearelves: FCG, standard of discipline, 337
24 Archers: FCG, 289
25 White Lions, Standard, Musician, Banner of sorcery, 443
26 White Lions, FCG, Amulet of light, 435
4x1 Great Eagle, 50x4
Total: 2498

I've never seen anything quite like this list. I really like it, it's unique, powerful and apparantly very strong.

Special things to note: One big unit of Archers over multiple, small ones. Seerstaff on the Life Archmage (see my earlier discussions on wand vs staff). 2x Lion hordes.

87 BP - Asbjørn Willersrud, High elves
Archmage: lvl 4, light, annulian crystal, loremaster cloak, 340
Mage: lvl 2, light, seer staff, 165
Noble: bsb, lvl 1, light, dragon armour, great weapon, radient gem of hoeth, 169
16 Spearmen: standard, musician, banner of discipline, 174
27 Archers: musician, 302
14 Archers: musician, 159
27 White lions: fcg, banner of swiftness, 450
24 White lions: fcg, banner of sorcery, 440
Great eagle: 50
Great eagle: 50
Repeater bolt thrower: 100
Repeater bolt thrower: 100
Total: 2499

Coven of Light. Somewhat conservative on the Coven strength.

Things to note: RBTs and 2x Lion horde.

77 - Claudio Magno, High elves
Prince on Star dragon: General, Dragon Armour, Sword of Might, Enchanted Shield, The Other Tricksters Shard, Vambraces of Defence, 624
Noble: BSB, lvl 1, Light, Radiant Gem of Hoeth, 155
Mage: lvl 2, Light, Silver Wand, Loremasters Cloak, 185
Mage: lvl 2, Light, Seerstaff of Saphery, 165
Mage: lvl 1, Light, Dispel Scroll, 120
28 Spear Elves: Musician, Champion, 267
28 Spear Elves: Musician, Champion, 267
10 Spear Elves: Musician, Champion, 105
21 White Lions: FCG, Banner of Sorcery, Champion: Amulet of Light, 410
1 Great Eagle: 50
1 Great Eagle: 50
1 Great Eagle: 50
1 Great Eagle: 50
Total Army Cost: 2498

Oh, nice! A Star Coven with S7 (!!) Banishment ;) Definitely my favourite, for obvious reasons.

Things to note: Only 21 combat infantry. 4 Eagles in a list which seems really short on points relative to having enough power in combat.

73 - Sergey Kovrov (DMCrew), High Elves
Archmage: General, Lvl 4, Death, Dispel Scroll, Talisman of Saphery, Folaraith's Robe, 360
Mage: Lvl 2, High Magic, Silver Wand, Loremasters Cloak, 185
Noble: BSB, Great Weapon, Luckstone, Amulet of Light, Armour of Caledor, 163
34 SpearElves: FCG, First Among Equals, Banner of the Eternal Flame, 341
30 SpearElves: FCG, 295
18 White Lions: FCG, Standard of Discipline, 315
24 White Lions: FCG, Banner of Sorcery, 440
5 Dragon Princes: 150
5 Dragon Princes: 150
1 Great Eagle: 50
1 Great Eagle: 50
Total: 2499

A rather interesting list with a somewhat weird setup: no Archers, and AoL on BSB instead of on the Lions.

Things to note: 2x5 Dragon Princes, 2x Lions blocks.

73 - Asger Sams Granerud, High Elves
Prince: general, great weapon, Null Stone, 262
Archmage: lvl4, life, Folariath's Robe, Loremaster's Cloak, Silver Wand, 355
Noble: bsb, halberd, Banner of Sorcery, 164
Mage: lvl1, high, Dispel Scroll, Amulet of Light, 135
19 Archers: FCG, Banner of Eternal Flame, 244
10 Archers: Musician, 115
10 Archers: 110
16 Spearmen: Champion, Musician, 159
27 White Lions: Champion, Musician, 423
27 White Lions: Champion, Musician, Talisman of Loec, 433
1 Great Eagle: 50
1 Great Eagle: 50
Total: 2500

A highly entertaining list and I can really see where the power comes from here: not much can beat a life-supported Lion block, and what about two? To further add to this, the Prince has null stone to truly take away enemy advantages.

Things to note: MSU core setup, ToL on WL champ, Null Stone Prince.

Would love to see some BRs here, or thoughts from the list designers themselves. However I don't know if they frequent Ulthuan, so if you find anything or indeed if you're one of them, please share the wisdom :)

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:26 am 
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Wow... all but the Star Coven have TWO big White Lion units, and the Star Coven at least has 1. No elite troops beyond the White Lions except a couple min cost DP units. And everyone took Loremaster's Cloak, but I think that is because of ETC rules changes.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:20 am 
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I had to check the cover of my army book, nope not White Lion's and friends yet...

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:32 am 
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Asbjørn's report, and commentary on his list can be found here:
http://www.2d6.no/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9067&start=105

They're all in norwegian.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:46 pm 
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@dabber - Why do you think Loremaster's Cloak is especially good in ETC? It's an MR5 item for 40 points, pretty ridiculous compared to the common items and especially useful with large but vulnerable Lion blocks.

@Elessehta of Yvresse - True. I'm a bit surprised to be honest, but then again with the nerf to Shadow I don't think a PG list is viable and Swordmasters tend to end up as a nice-to-have but rarely best-to-have.

@rusty - Thanks, will give it a read!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:13 pm 
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Curu Olannon wrote:
@dabber - Why do you think Loremaster's Cloak is especially good in ETC?
When I typed that, I was thinking ETC allowed ward saves against the nuke spells. But that is incorrect; it allows "look out sir". It was late.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:22 pm 
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Back to your ongoing report ...

Since you are posting this report in stages, I'm betting your comment "I'm fairly certain I can wipe the board as I please by now" proves wrong. Probably the dragon rolls awful and dies in the next turn or two, although I don't see how. 10 attacks, 4 with re-rolls to hit, should get enough 6s to take out the nettling hero, and after that the dragon should be able to finish off the other hero and the Treekin. It seems likely you kill the nettling hero on your turn, the others on the WE turn, and then are free to act again. I don't see how a Treeman gets to your BSB, and nothing else in the WE army appears able to hurt him. He's in range of the White Lions, so they shouldn't be running either. Basically it feels like you are about to have some really bad luck.


I must admit I don't find the pictures that easy to follow. For me, the angle isn't high enough to see positioning well, and it is tough to differeniate the many Eagles. I do thank you for keeping the picture direction consistent (reports with pictures from various angles are awful to follow), but I think it works best when you stand on a chair to take the photos.


You probably should have finished the report before going into the ETC lists. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:19 pm 
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Yeah, no worries: but as I said MR5 is still pretty good for our fragile elites.

Ok let's move on!

:: High Elves Turn 3 ::

I charged the BSB into the Treekin flank. I realized at this point that the DP were too wide to be able to flank his BSB, because the house was too close for them to fit in. If only I'd have had a chariot... The White Lions exited the building on the far side, to the rear of his Treeman (which was facing West).

The West kept tuning their positions for spells and missiles to fly: the big Archers still locked in melee with the flying hero, which was now down to 1W and thus 2+ ward.

Magic saw him fail to dispel Iceshard Blizzard on the Netling-hero. Additionally, convergence went through on the Dragon. Shooting did next to nothing and it was down to combat: Saerith and Faeria managed 2W between them and the hero died. Naenor dealt 2 or 3 wounds to the Treekin for none in return. This was enough to win decisively, the BSB failed his test (and died instantly) while the Treekin fled, only to get caught by Naenor. The ward save helped his remaining flying hero to survive the Archers, which again held on steadfast.

Image

His West is completely broken, with a single Treeman remaining there against Naenor, Saerith and ~18 Lions.

:: Wood Elves Turn 4 ::

The Western spirits try to move closer but they are so far away! The Archers move up as well, carefully placing the Archmage within 24" of Naenor. The Treeman in front of the Lions move around the corner of the building, out of their front arc but within strangleroot range.

Magic gives us 7v6 and he starts off with a 5D6 Amber Spear on Naenor (beefed up version) which goes off with IF! So much for bringing a scroll >.< Anyways, I'm lucky as he only scores 2 wounds and the noble Elf survives!

Shooting sees my Lions take a really hard pounding and they're down to like 7-8. Panic passed.

Combat gives me a big relief as the hero finally fails his 2+ ward and goes down. My vulnerable core units now appear to be safe, since he only has 2 turns left.

Image

Thoughts and suggestions for the last couple of turns very welcome :)

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:39 am 
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rusty wrote:
Asbjørn's report, and commentary on his list can be found here:
http://www.2d6.no/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9067&start=105

They're all in norwegian.


Translations pls :D

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:03 am 
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That first list with the dual level 4's is certainly interesting. Would love to see how that plays.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:34 am 
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Google Translate? I skipped through it, seems he had an interesting time.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:01 am 
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@pk-ng - google translate should give you a rough outline at least ;)

@Jimmy - agreed! In general, I believe Life is the perceived killer (taking Seerstaff you're sure to get a dangerous selection) which allows the Death spells to go through. D&D and Soulblight are truly deadly with big Lion blocks.

@Elessehta of Yvresse - I give it a read as well. To be fair, it appears he had a couple of easy encounters (Empire list with no answers for WLs, HE Coven which was inferior at range) which allowed him a good placing. Of course, the pairing nature of ETC means it's impossible to tell whether these high-scoring lists (points-wise) did their job better than other lists, but it's the best we've got.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:53 pm 
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+1 for google translate; I was able to follow everything and it was interesting looking at composition and broad views of what happened

For the ongoing report, it looks like archer cleanup and avoiding getting double charged by the treemen at this point. What I'm really interested in here is where you will move with the dragon princes: whether they're going in the back field to help with archers or if they're moving back into your lines to counter the dryads crossing the river.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:27 pm 
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Yes, well I still have 2 Eagles intact so I wasn't too worried about that. At this point, my primary concern was scoring the most points while keeping most of my own ;) I'll post the rest shortly!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:29 pm 
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At this point in the game, I was starting to realize just how bad things were. I sorely missed my mage on the east flank. My heroes were dying one by one. And the hero who had maybe the best chance of hurting the dragon, the one with PoS, were wasted killing archers. The thing that did work was keeping my archer base safe, and killing WL's.

On another note, here's the reports from the guy who took the WE Flying Circus to ETC:
http://asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=22809&start=25

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:20 am 
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@rusty - good summary of the main tactical errors which suddenly revealed themselves, albeit a little too late!

Ok, so for the rest, of which I'll simply do a short summary because most of it isn't that interesting:

:: Last Turns ::

Looking at the picture from his T4, my Lions are within charge range of 2 archer units. Although unlikely to reach the Archmage's unit (I'm assuming he'll flee the first one), I consider it to be worth the risk: there's not much else I can do with them and they're very likely to completely perish anyways. The charge is declared, followed by flee, redirect and another flee. This sees me send both characters to the end of the table, where they have an easy time in my next turn, since the Archmage can only rally. She's eaten alive, along with the Archers, however in the meantime she tries to Amber Spear Naenor again, this time the scroll comes out. The Archers + Treeman do manage to kill off the Lions though.

The brave Lions force the Archers to retreat, giving Saerith and Naenor an open field to play with while an Eagle distracts the Western Treeman
Image

Rusty tried to position the Treemen for a dual-charge on my general, but careless pivoting of one of them meant that Saerith was able to escape one, only facing the other. Rusty did take the charge, hoping to bring down the Dragon and thunderstomp Saerith for over 700 VP. This didn't work out for him and I added another 300 points.

On my bunker side, his Eagle managed to catch some fleeing Archers (the original 15 man unit) who had been charged by the Dryads. In the end, the Dragon Princes brought them down.

Rusty's army was in very bad shape at the end, with like 10 Archers and a Treeman the only ones left alive. The difference was pretty big and the result was a 19-1 victory for the High Elves!

Evaluation

Long time, no play! Same went for rusty, so plenty of poor moves on both sides. I think in the end though, he had the worst of it, though I'm not sure what he could've done differently given this context, as it felt like strategic errors mostly, instead of tactical ones. I'll point out the main things I felt gave me this big win:
- The prioritization of the East flank. With only one unit of Treekin, these need to make a big impact. Their deployment essentially gave me my favourite matchup on a silver platter. Granted, him charging the Eagle certainly didn't help him, but what could he have done? Had he not charged it, I would've simply used my flying movement to ensure a T3 charge instead, most likely with better support.
- The mage positioning. Most of the game she was too far away to make an impact, unable to cast Savage Beast and even Wyssan's at times. I think deploying 10 Archers + her on the East would've changed the game completely.
- Comet fear. Although Comet is super-scary for rusty's fragile units, I think he would've had to disregard it and get those Archers and mage in a more central position in order for his elements to work together. As it were, he didn't manage to put pressure on my bunkers, nor my Lions, nor the characters. Essentially, 700-800 points doing nothing for multiple turns. Granted, the Lions did eventually die but this was almost more of my choice than him forcing my hand.
- Lion fear. My Lions did almost nothing this game, in case of killyness. They killed a single unit of Dryads and died to sustained fire over multiple turns. Had he advanced the Dryads and Treeman T2, I would've had a lot more pressure on my back units.

As far as my own play goes, I'm still wondering if I should've placed the Lions on the East. This may have been a risky move, had he identified it and moved accordingly, since the space there was so narrow. However, having them with Saerith against the Treekin would be great. With M6 they really can put pressure on the opponent early on. The problem here is that rusty had more drops than me, so he could've positioned the second Treeman more centrally, which would've forced me to commit something to him.

I used the Dragon Princes extremely poorly, as I always seem to. All they did was clear off some Dryads, in the end.

Rusty getting first turn really didn't help me, I wanted the house with the Lions fast to exit it and be in a sweet-spot with the Dragon, as well as getting the East into position. As he moved first, I had to react instead. Additionally, this put more pressure on my magic as I had less time to get his scroll out in time before crucial fights. Because of this, I played the magic rather risky (compared to my normal game) as well as simply hoping for the best in a couple of cases (Saerith was taking a pretty big risk when front-charging the Treekin: with 2 flank charges + BSB + netling challenge I was looking at a pretty big static combat res disadvantage). However, I think this is good as I need to learn how to let go of what's safe and simply 'go for it' sometimes. I've done this before with both good and bad results, this time around I could not have asked for more than I got.

==========

After this game I decided to try a variant of the same list in my next game. Based on what I liked and what I didn't like, I made some minor changes:
- BSB equipment changed to GW, HoF, GP. Foe Bane is too expensive for what it does, even in this matchup I don't think it was that great. A magic weapon is great and all, however I don't think it'll cut it in this case unless it adds to base strength.
- DP out, Lion Chariot in. Basically, the Chariot + Dragon + Lion and variations thereof are incredibly powerful. I really felt this game how much more valuable versatile movement would've been and I realized why other Star Dragon lists have come to appreciate this unit type so much.

I deliberated changing lores, but ended up deciding to stick with Heavens for at least one more game. While it wasn't terrific in this game, it certainly was decent and, combined with rusty's decisions from e.g. comet, helped me win big.

Now, I've already had another game! I played Dark Reaper's Daemons on Wednesday, which I'm hoping I'll get to start typing up tomorrow (Dark Reaper: if you're reading this please post your list with reasoning!) where I used this list. Stay tuned for more turn-by-turn reporting ;)

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:29 am 
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Curu Olannon wrote:
Combined, I take this to mean that a spell must meet the casting value to be cast, and even if it's dispelled it counts as being cast (it's merely its effects that are dispelled, the cast itself is not negated). I'm open to other opinions, but I haven't seen any good arguements yet ;)


Well good thing Ole Johnny is here then eh? :wink:

Let us turn to page 36 in our BRB. First body paragraph, Sentence one.
"If an enemy has failed his dispel attempt (or not even attempted one!), the spell is cast successfully and its effects are now resolved"

The underlined word is important and here is why.
Page 35 Fith Body Paragraph, Sentence one
",the dispel is successful and the spell does not take effect"

Here is that word again. Successful, what does it mean you ask? Well for this we turn to Websters!
Here is the first definition "Accomplishing an aim or purpose:"

Accomplishing a aim? Well for this it would be the spell that is our aim. And since we accomplished it that means we can now carry on with the task of resolving the spell. But if it was not successful because it was dispelled then it was never accomplished, and if it was never accomplished it was never cast.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:02 pm 
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The Daemon list I used on Wednesday:

2500pts

Bloodthirster, General, Obsidian Armour, Axe of Khorne, Immortal Fury

Herald of Khorne, BSB, Juggernaught, Armour of Khorne, Firestorm Blade, Great Standard of Sundering
Herald of Tzeentch, Spell Breaker, Master of Sorcery (Fire)

10xHorrors, Musician
26xBloodletters, Full Command, Icon of Endless War
20xBloodletters, Musician
5xFuries
5xFuries

3xScreamers
3xScreamers

Fiend of Slaanesh
Fiend of Slaanesh
Soulgrinder, Daemonbane Claw, Phlegm Bombardment

I mainly wanted to try out the Soulgrinder and the Screamers when I made this list. Apart from the fact that it is 2500 points, it should also be fully within the ETC restrictions.

I wanted to have a few magic missiles to play around with to clear chaff with and so I opted for the Lore of Fire on the Herald, seeing as I was guaranteed to get Fireball. I have a lot of flying elements, but a lot of my real fighting power is still in the Bloodletter blocks and I can't afford having them redirected the whole game and kept out of favourable combats.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:26 pm 
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Why the lion chariot? I put the list together in AB and I think you can fit in two Tiranoc's pretty easily as you only have to find a few extra points. I think it works out with how you changed the BSB loadout. Is there a reason you prefer the lion chariot? I get that it has extra Str and AS but is it worth it over two (lesser) units?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:54 pm 
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@Johnny-Crass - Yeah, it's a highly debated issue and I respect your argument :) I suppose our local rules group has to resolve it!

@Dark Reaper - Thanks!

@John Rainbow - 2x Tiranocs is 170, one Lion Chariot is 140. The 30 points do make a rather big difference, since Dragon lists are always short on points in the first place. However, the main reason was that I wanted something which can be flexible and powerful, for example receive a Fiend charge or support an attack on <insert hard unit> to ensure victory. While the dual-Tiranoc setup is popular, I just decided to start with this and see how it worked.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:20 pm 
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Additionally, you will see how much impact the Lion Chariot actually has in the upcoming battle report.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:01 pm 
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Dark Reaper wrote:
Additionally, you will see how much impact the Lion Chariot actually has in the upcoming battle report.


Without giving away too much, suffice is to say that the Lion Chariot played a central role with regards to my tactics this game :)

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:04 pm 
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Curu that was masterful I must say. I was all pumped for a rules debate and you just pull the carpet with "It's a regional thing but nicely phrased argument".... Bravo sir....Bravo =D>

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:45 am 
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No offense, but the topic was thoroughly discussed a couple of pages back. If you feel like it's worth discussing more, create a thread in the rules section and I'll gladly participate there :) However for now, I'm mostly interested in how it's going to play in my games - hence the reply.

I think it's time to take a look at my encounter against Dark Reaper. He was fielding 2500 points Daemons of Chaos and we played using the in-game ETC rules (SLoS, 5 dice cap and so on). The lists were as follows:

:: High Elves ::
Star Dragon Prince w/SoM, VoD, OTS, Dragon Armour, Enchanted Shield
BSB Eagle Noble w/HoF, GW, GP, Dragon Armour, Shield
Mage lvl 2 Heavens, scroll
Mage lvl 2 Heavens, crystal

13 Spears
15 Archers, musician
10 Archers, musician
10 Archers, musician
10 Archers

26 Lions, F.C, +1M banner, AoL
1 Lion Chariot

2 Eagles

:: Daemons of Chaos ::

Bloodthirster, General, Obsidian Armour, Axe of Khorne, Immortal Fury

Herald of Khorne, BSB, Juggernaught, Armour of Khorne, Firestorm Blade, Great Standard of Sundering
Herald of Tzeentch, Spell Breaker, Master of Sorcery (Fire)

10xHorrors, Musician
26xBloodletters, Full Command, Icon of Endless War
20xBloodletters, Musician
5xFuries
5xFuries

3xScreamers
3xScreamers

Fiend of Slaanesh
Fiend of Slaanesh
Soulgrinder, Daemonbane Claw, Phlegm Bombardment

Dark Reaper wrote:
I mainly wanted to try out the Soulgrinder and the Screamers when I made this list. Apart from the fact that it is 2500 points, it should also be fully within the ETC restrictions.

I wanted to have a few magic missiles to play around with to clear chaff with and so I opted for the Lore of Fire on the Herald, seeing as I was guaranteed to get Fireball. I have a lot of flying elements, but a lot of my real fighting power is still in the Bloodletter blocks and I can't afford having them redirected the whole game and kept out of favourable combats.


I had no idea what he'd field prior to the adjustments relative to my last game. As you can see the changes are rather minor as well. Upon looking at his list, I wanted to isolate his 3 powerful elements (letterhorde with BSB, Thirster and new monster with T7) and engage them as I saw fit. To accomplish this, I intended to heavily weigh a flank down, while keeping so many units on the other flank so that it would not appear to be a refused one (even though elves are expensive 3-4 MSU core units really don't count for a lot of points!).

To this end, I think deployment worked out very nicely. I had my Lions on an extreme flank, directly across 20 naked bloodletters and the monster. My flyers were also there, with the Lion Chariot in a central position and most of my chaff on the other flank. Deployment looked like this:

Image
You can see the base of the chariot right underneath the Dragon's wing. The rest should be self-explanatory, but feel free to ask any questions you might have!

Magic saw me get double Iceshard Blizzard, coupled with Convergence and Thunderbolt! A very nice selection in this matchup :) He got Flaming Sword of Ruin and Flame Cage, opting to exchange the first for Fireball.

Finishing first, I was hoping to grab T1 to soften his Fiends with some arrows and get into good positions with the Lions + characters. Alas, it was not to be as Dark Reaper rolled a '6' and went first.

:: Daemons Turn 1 ::

East moved up, West was more reluctant. Fairly standard, in my opinion, though I was surprised to see the Thirster not going for a more central position as he went almost directly across the board, near the extreme East flank.

Magic was very uninteresting as he rolled snake eyes, which my crystal made into an easy round of defense.

Shooting saw his stone thrower-monster fire at Saerith, but he scored a misfire and took a wound.

Overall I was very happy with things although I didn't grab first turn!

Now, unfortunately I forgot to take a picture here, but you can pretty much imagine his army moving full speed on the East, with the West advancing more slowly. Thoughts and input about deployment and my moves for T1 are welcome :)

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:51 pm 
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By deploying the WL in this way they are removed from the rest of the battle. They have the chance to take on the Bloodletters and Soul Grinder but by sticking to the flank, they also risk being redirected completely as your opponent has quite a few flying chaff units. I'm not sure how this is going to go but with the main ranged element of your force deployed on the other flank (inc. your mages?) isn't this a big risk? I might've deployed the WLs (more) centrally with the archers on the extreme flank instead. That way they have more chance of being involved if your opponent does play tricks but aren't as vulnerable to being lead along the flank for the entire game. You also have a fair few flyers with which you can then pick and choose your battles with them.

What I want to know is, will the Bloodthirster v. Prince Saerith throw-down occur? Could be fun. Could end up with a Prince smashed into the floor if my math-hammer is correct... I guess I'll have to wait though.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:05 pm 
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Well if he wants to dedicate all his flying chaff to the Lions, my bunkers will largely be safe. The Screamers need to get into my back field to perform their duty (at least this is where they excel). Since he's Daemonic across the board, he cannot flee either so chaff will disappear quickly. As far as the Thirster's concerned, I didn't want to solo-engage him at all, if possible.

Alright, let's take a look at the next couple of events:

:: High Elves Turn 1 ::

I move out hard on the West, placing Saerith next to the 20 Letters and with his flank exposed to the monster - given its stats I wasn't too concerned with it. The East shuffle backwards. One Eagle moves to essentially nullify Icon of Endless War.

Magic is 6v5 and I start off with a fairly high cast of Iceshard Blizzard on the monster on 3D6. He lets it go and I repeat it, this time getting IF! 2 Spears die and the mage is wounded in the process.

Shooting sees the East Archers clearly stressed out as the 30 of them only manage a single wound on one of the Fiends combined. Faeria breathes fire on the 20 Letters, hitting everyone for a total of 10 kills. The 15 Archers follow up with 6 (!) more, leaving the semi-strong unit as nothing but chaff.

Image

:: Daemons Turn 2 ::

Thirster charges central Archers. I flee, he redirects, I flee. He's left in the middle of no-where. Additional charges force both units to flee the table, despite one of them needing 11+ twice (!) on 2D6, which I managed. His central Fiend charges the last Archers, who S&S for 1 more wound (he's now down to 1W prior to combat). The West Letters decide to chaff Lions, while the big Letters charge the Eagle.

Magic is 10v7 and he starts with a 5D6 Flamecage, which I dispel with my 7. He then fails to cast a lvl 3 Fireball with his remaining 5.

Shooting sees his monster fail its required 2x 4+ rolls from Iceshard, and it does nothing.

Combat sees my Archers fail their fear test. They proceed to miss the Fiend with all attacks bar 1, which fails to wound. The Fiend kills 4 in return and I fail my steadfast test. The Lion Chariot, which is nearby, panics. The Fiends catches the fleeing Archers and my East flank is now non-existant.

Image

Thoughts and comments for my Turn 2? Let us hear them :)

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:00 am 
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A very destructive turn 1. Well done to Dark Reaper for making the archers flee twice. I assume you both had two change your plans at this point, with such losses.

Further on I guess both flying monsters will seek to set up targets for a next turn charge. That's a tricky one. Both the big letters and the white lions a bit too hard for the monsters to take on single-handedly. I guess the game will be decided by whom manages to get his big monster into the opponents big block, together with sufficient support . Thus; chaffing of those supporting units will likely prove vital.

I give HE 4:3 odds at the moment.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:19 am 
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While the Archers fled the table, the Thirster essentially lost a turn of movement. I was prepared to lose one unit, however the other unit had to flee 22" to disappear, which I considered highly unlikely. The fact that my last Archers failed to kill the Fiend, ran AND panicked the Lion Chariot most certainly didn't help me at all. I guess it's one of the risks you take when sending off the general + bsb on far-ranging missions ;)

As for odds and support, my goal in this game was always to engage the big block with Lions + Dragon and keep the BT busy. I viewed the Lion Chariot as a potentially game-breaking element: its power added to either the Dragon or the Lions can make for a truly terrifying combat phase.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:04 pm 
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Next part coming up!

:: High Elves Turn 2 ::

Though things weren't exactly going according to plan with my Archers disappearing and the Chariot panicking, I was intending to go through with my initial plans with regards to the flyers and Lions. This meant that I had to finish the West this turn: including taking out his monster and the Letters. I was intending to dual-charge the monster with Chariot + Naenor, however this was no longer possible (of course). Instead, I sent in Naenor alone, hoping the flank + bsb would prove sufficient. The Lions charge the Letters and Saerith places himself to block the Horrors/threaten the big Letters.

Luckily the Chariot rallies, however it's between 2 fences and I position it toward the centre.

Magic is a measly 3v2 and I cast Iceshard on his monster. He contemplates scrolling it for a while but ends up deciding another situation will likely be better - he fails to dispel with his 2D6 as well, so not a horrible result for me.

Shooting sees me kill 2 Furies from the West. I was hoping for more, as any number of them can cause me all sorts of problems, but 2 is still better than none.

Combat sees his big monster try his special S10 D6 wounds attack, however he JUST fails to hit Naenor, many thanks to Iceshard Blizzard! In return Naenor deals a wound or two and the monster dies, despite being in BSB range (again, many thanks to Iceshard Blizzard!!).

At least I had managed to sweep away his West flank in 2 turns. At this point I was hoping that it would be enough. I had already taken some risks I'd rather not (Naenor into the monster), but when things don't go your way you have to throw caution to the wind and go for it.

Image

:: Daemons Turn 3 ::

No charges are made and as his chaff begins to move I notice how having the Chariot face middle was a mistake: I should've angled it so that it would look behind my ranks as this was a super-juicy spot for his multitude of support units. His Horrors move out despite Saerith covering their approach, however the Herald positions himself 1" behind the Letters so that Saerith cannot charge him.

The Screamers move over the Spears, killing 5 of them. Luckily I pass panic this time around.

Magic again gives us low numbers with a 4v3 split. Regardless, he gets an IF Fireball through on my remaining Eagle, killing the poor bird. The Chariot panics again, despite being LD10. The miscast result kills 3 Letters and wounds the Herald.

Image

Thoughts for my next moves? Saerith is ~15" away from the Letters and ~17" away from the Horrors. The Lions are (obviously) too far away yet, but I knew they would never get to engage before my T4, earliest.

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