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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:36 am 
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Furion's list is indeed interesting, I might have a look at it and try a couple of versions :)

I have a game up tonight against Rusty. Not sure what I'll field yet, as it's been a long time since I last played. I'll keep you posted on the outcome!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:23 pm 
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Welcome back Curu, keen to read more of your findings.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:14 pm 
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Thanks :) It's been too long, hopefully I'll find a nice rhythm again now that I'm "back to reality". I'm hoping to get at least one night a week dedicated to Warhammer (either playing or painting) and I'll of course provide BRs, analyses etc along the way.

Speaking of which, I just got home from Rusty's place after a very interesting game. There's a lot to be said about it, which is why I'll try something new (for me): I'll post one turn at a time and ask for feedback, so you can evaluate pieces at a time without knowing everything (which can often interfere with advice).

Now, having partially paid attention to this forum, the ETC and other online-Warhammer related things, I've come to the conclusion that as far as Dragons go, I have a lot to learn. It was originally wamphyri's list which sparked this thought, and Furion's recent interest which really paid off in Poland. Essentially, those lists are very different compared to the ones I've ran, but they are both very successful as well. Because of this, I've decided to expand my horizon so to speak and experiment with various lists of my own. Granted, I've ran a couple of versions of the Star Dragon already, but again I want to try something completely different.

Against Rusty I decided to start from scratch and try out some things I haven't before, while maintaining a few elements I'm comfortable with. I didn't know what he'd field, and as he has a range of armies to choose from there was no way I could tailor anything. The first thing to change was my loadout: while tried and trusted, I wanted to go for the perhaps safer approach with a magical sword and The Other Trickster's Shard. Thus, I took Sword of Might and Enchanted Shield to round out the build and provide the same defense I'm so used to (2+/2+/4++ really is brutal). Next up were the heroes, and I decided to go for 2 mages and a flying BSB. I quickly realized that I wouldn't be able to afford the Banner of Sorcery, so I chose to equip the mages defensively: Annulian on one, Scroll on the other. For the BSB I chose the Foe Bane to help me out against things I know have been a problem in the past (Sphinxes and things with T6+) and Helm of Fortune. This loadout gives my characters a lot of flexibility against Ethereals as well.

Core - I decided to go for an MSU approach, having no unit bigger than 15. Essentially, I've seen how helpful this has been for Rusty's Wood Elves (which have a comparable Archer base to mine) and wanted to try it. 45 Archers split 15 + 10 + 10 + 10 and the rest of the points in Spears rounded out nicely to ~625 points.

Special - big block of M6 magical Lions fit the bill nicely, along with 5 Dragon Princes. Basically I had roughly 100 points left so I dropped one of the 3 Eagles and added the DP.

Rare - 2 Eagles.

For magic I remembered Furion pointing out how important it is to draw out a scroll early on, in fact he spent 100 points in his own roster to take a Light Mage (S6 signature magic missile should really help here) to accomplish this. Looking at the various lores in the book and keeping in mind that I wanted to try something new, I ended up giving both my mages Heavens. It's an incredibly versatile lore, with a really nasty signature spell. A lot of the other spells offer scroll-drawing potential and overall I think that there will always be good choices with 4 spells at my disposal, potentially double-casting Iceshard in tough situtations.

So, onto the lists: Rusty had decided to try out something new as well (!) and as such, we had two experimental lists face eachother:

:: High Elves ::
Prince on Star Dragon: Vambraces of Defense, Dragon Armour, Sword of Might, Enchanted Shield, The Other Trickster's Shard
BSB on Great Eagle: Dragon Armour, Shield, Foe Bane, Helm of Fortune
Heavens Mage: level 2, Annulian Crystal
Heavens Mage: level 2, Dispel Scroll

13 Spears
15 Archers, musician
10 Archers, musician
10 Archers, musician
10 Archers

26 White Lions, F.C, +1M banner, Amulet of Light
5 Dragon Princes

2 Great Eagles

:: Wood Elves ::

2600 Pts - Wood Elves Flying Circus

.::CHARACTERS::.
1 Spellweaver @ 275.0 Pts
General; Lore of Beasts; Magic Level 4; Longbow
Dispel Scroll

1 * Noble @ 183.0 Pts
Great Weapon; Light Armour; Shield
Amaranthine Brooch
Dragonhelm
BSB
Potion of Foolhardiness
1 Great Eagle
Save: 3+/4+, 3++ vs non-magical, 2++ vs fire

1 * Noble @ 183.0 Pts
Great Weapon; Longbow; Light Armour; Shield
Annoyance of Netlings
Dragonbane Gem
The Other Tricksters Shard
Eternal kindred
1 Great Eagle
Save: 2+/3+, 2++ vs fire

1 * Noble @ 188.0 Pts
Great Weapon; Longbow; Light Armour; Shield
Stone of Rebirth
Potion of Strength
Eternal kindred
1 Great Eagle
Save: 2+/3+, 2++ on last wound

.::CORE::.
12 Glade Guard @ 172.0 Pts
Longbow; Standard; Musician
Banner of the Eternal Flame

10 Glade Guard @ 126.0 Pts
Longbow; Musician

10 Glade Guard @ 126.0 Pts
Longbow; Musician

10 Glade Guard @ 126.0 Pts
Longbow; Musician

8 Dryads @ 96.0 Pts

8 Dryads @ 96.0 Pts


.::Special::.
6 Treekin @ 390.0 Pts

.::RARE::.
1 Great Eagle @ 50.0 Pts

1 Treeman @ 285.0 Pts

1 Treeman @ 285.0 Pts


Total Army Cost: 2596.0

So - theoretical thoughts on the lists will be much appreciated :) (as always, Rusty's looking for feedback as well)

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:35 pm 
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I'm a bit of a rookie so please be patient
what's the role of the 13 spearmen? :?
Interesting that you've chosen lore of heavens for your mages, i've never used it with my high elves before but am considering using it, would you say it's a good lore to use with high elves?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:54 pm 
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The Black Knight wrote:
I'm a bit of a rookie so please be patient
what's the role of the 13 spearmen? :?
Interesting that you've chosen lore of heavens for your mages, i've never used it with my high elves before but am considering using it, would you say it's a good lore to use with high elves?


Good point! I should've mentioned that we were playing with ETC restrictions (as always, well at least almost): here you have a maximum of 45 Archers so I had to fill up my core with something :)

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:10 pm 
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Good to see you posting again Curu.

Heavens seems to be on the up. I've always felt it lackedbalance but then I've never used it! There are certainly some potentially powerful spells there.

Rusty's list is interesting. Lots of things to buff! I've been looking into WE and 12 is smaller than the usual Flaming archer unit, I wonder what the thinking is there?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:34 am 
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@Spellarcher:
I would really have liked to have 15 flaming archers, but can't find the points. Open to suggestions though :).

Heavens, I believe is underappreciated because it's big killer spell; Comet and it magic missile; thunderbolt and chain lightning is primarily good against multiple small units. With the internet focus in 8th edition on few, big units "everyone" has been seeking big spells to kill big units, like Dwellers and Mindrazor. I've only tried Heavens once myself, with ogres and were well satisfied with the multiple cheap buffs and hexes.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:07 am 
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Iceshard Blizzard is awesome, -1 to hit and -1 LD, means when you win combat, because you probably will, the break test is tougher ^_^

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:16 am 
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I was reading Joey Boy's MSU WE tactica last night and noticed that he uses the same archer set-up Rusty. Maybe 12 is enough if you can get in close? Pretty academic against HE's I guess!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:25 am 
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@SpellArcher - thanks! I honestly haven't been paying attention to trends lately, but yesterday I was simply going through the rulebook looking for good utility lores with big threats to likely draw out a scroll early on, ref. Furion's argument. The reasoning was mostly Furion's experience with S6 missiles (which Heavens sport 2 of!) and scrolls, combined with the amazing signature hex (which I can double up on for a mighty -2 to hit, -2LD!). Additionally, both Iceshard Blizzard and Harmonic Convergence are easy to cast, giving me some flexibility with my mages. Of course, I lack the super-useful Shield of Saphery along with the game-breakingly powerful Flames + Vaul's. I absolutely think double High can be very strong as well: having multiple casts of Shield is pretty brutal. The thing with Rusty's list is that the 3 flying characters specialize in dealing with things he might otherwise struggle with: one has the Annoyance (which is brutal against strong characters), one gets a 2+ ward. They all sport S6 and a 2+ ward vs flaming, giving them lots of good spots. The recent WE FAQ really helps their survivability through the Eternal Kindred as well, making them fairly strong.

@rusty - it may be that Heavens is more viable in ETC where the big units are somewhat limited. However, multiple casts of Iceshard Blizzard can absolutely devastate a run-of-the-mill deathstar as well. Oh what's that? You can't even HIT me and you take your break test at -3LD?

@Elessehta of Yvresse - indeed, the LD bit really matters as well!

I'll post up the start of the game tonight: I think I'll post one part every ~24 hours.

Any predictions?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:50 am 
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Heavens vs a Flying Circus, poor Rusty, was he preying you didn't roll up Thunderbolt, or Chain lightning? They are dangerous against small units but devastating against flyers, the extra damage from the lore attribute hurts ^_^

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:56 pm 
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@Elessehta
Actually, I was simply slipping into my usual state of enlightened fatalism, as always when I'm facing Curu.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:58 pm 
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@Curu
Could be you're right. Having a signature spell that's always useful is pretty good, particulary with lvl 2s.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:02 pm 
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You guys seem pretty even, have you got a tally of your wins and losses against each other?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:28 pm 
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Nine single player games, not counting this one. I have two wins, two draws and five losses, which is probably my worst record against anybody.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:58 pm 
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@Elessehta of Yvresse - although it looks nasty, it doesn't necessarily boil down to much of a threat since he has decent armour saves. With that being said, it's definitely a strong lore against flying stuff.

@rusty - I trust you've got the record straight, I haven't been keeping count to be honest.

So, let's move this on:

The board was mutually agreed to have 2 buildings, a river crossing it, essentially dividing it in half, as well as a couple of hills and impassables to round it out. I won the choose side roll and opted for the one with a hill in the corner and a building in front, intending to use the building + mobility to fix my Lions to where I wanted them. I knew it was a good chance of them wiping out before doing much, so I was intending for my flying characters to dish out most of the hurt. To accomplish this, I needed to divide his stuff up (or rather, for him to do it for me) so I could isolate and engage at will. Long story short, I intended to put the Lions on the flank of the house if he didn't commit anything to that flank, allowing them cover for a couple of turns. Otherwise, I'd place them centrally and let my flyers take care of this flank first, hopefully contending the building with Lions.

For spells, I got 1, 5 for the first mage, and 2, 5 for the second. This gave me one free spell and I chose Iceshard, Convergence, Thunderbolt and Comet. The reason I chose Bolt over Lightning is the casting cost and although bouncing is nice, I think that in this matchup a single target can make or break the game. The boostable range is nice as well. He got Wyssan's, Pelt, Spear and Savage Beast. He had the option of choosing Curse over Spear but wanted to snipe my characters.

Deployment saw lots of chaff go down on both sides. When he finally committed he placed the Treekin on the flank. This left my Lions to the middle and the DP across his Treekin. I would've wanted them on the other flank but the river would've made it very hard for them to perform a meaningful task here. I was fairly happy with the situation, however he won the roll-off for first turn (despite me having +1 for finishing deployment first) and gladly went ahead.

His T1 movement gave me a couple of headaches as I didn't get to manoevre as I wanted to in order to setup a trap for his Treekin while taking control of the building. Instead, he got the building with Wyssan's-boosted Dryads. The board looked like this:

Image

So, what would you have done T1? :)

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:09 am 
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I'm interested to see how this goes, especially with Heavens as your chosen lore. I tried using it but didn't really like it as I found it pretty underwhelming. The signature is good but not great and I don't think the overall selection really synergises that well with HE in general. What really sucks when using this with the dragon list is that unlike say Pha's which protects the potential target, you have to cast the signature on the firing unit. This is a big problem when facing lists with more than one threat to the dragon i.e. double blaster ogre lists.

In terms of your dragon list, you should already have the movement phase dominated so Comet is less useful that it would be with other lists and HE all get to re-roll hits anyway so it makes Convergence slightly less efficient as a spell as well. I guess every little helps but it seems to me like there are more efficient choices for a lore out there, particularly when running the dragon list. The magic missiles are both ok (Str6 is nice) and I don't think I've ever seen anyone cast Wind Blast. Ever. Though I guess it could be useful occasionally.

I must admit that Heavens is certainly on the up with some armies, but in my meta this tends to be Brets and Empire who can really make use of the re-rolling 1's for AS and 6's to prevent KB with cav. lists, etc but for us, I'm not convinced.


Last edited by John Rainbow on Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:52 am 
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Every time I fail an armour save with my Heavy Cav I either celebrate that I have Convergence or cry a little inside ^_^

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:59 pm 
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From the WE perspective, I probably messed up deployment a fair bit. Why will become obvious after a while.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:29 pm 
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Love the blog, glad to see you continuing!

Curu Olannon wrote:
So, what would you have done T1? :)

I'd move the white lions up with the building to their right flank and the left flank held back, but still near the river, then I'd have the BSB join. They're looking at accepting possible front charges from a treeman, dryads, and up to three characters (I can't tell where they all are from the photo). With the BSB preventing stomps as long as he's in the unit, you should be able to grind out anything that comes at you, so long as you prevent Savage Beast at all costs. If he doesn't engage, the lions will likely be unable to charge much, but the BSB should have a decent line at the archmage, which seems to be the biggest force multiplier in the list.
Meanwhile, the rest of the army shifts to the left, with the dragon using the other building as cover while moving closer to the line of archers. I'd also move one one eagle behind the first building, using it as cover as well as restricting the exit options of the dryads inside, but mostly so it's close enough to redirect the treekin whichever direction they try to circle the building.
Magic really depends on the wind roll, but my biggest priority would be putting a comet a little over 13-14" from the lions; that way if any characters charge the horde, the archmage would have to be pretty much on target if he wants to assist with augments. Second priority is Convergence on the lions; they'll need it either for combat or armor saves from missile fire. If there's enough, left Thunderbolt one of the eagle nobles.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:35 pm 
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Curu Olannon wrote:
:: High Elves ::
Prince on Star Dragon: Vambraces of Defense, Dragon Armour, Sword of Might, Enchanted Shield, The Other Trickster's Shard
BSB on Great Eagle: Dragon Armour, Shield, Foe Bane, Helm of Fortune
Heavens Mage: level 2, Annulian Crystal
Heavens Mage: level 2, Dispel Scroll

13 Spears
15 Archers, musician
10 Archers, musician
10 Archers, musician
10 Archers

26 White Lions, F.C, +1M banner, Amulet of Light
5 Dragon Princes

2 Great Eagles

I'm pretty excited to see how this 'new' list works out. I really like a couple of things but can see some potential problems so I'm interested to see what happens for you. In particular I really see the need for the magic weapons on both the dragon and the BSB, however, I can also see this getting you into problems. Do you think you can still take down a Bloodthirster with this guy now? I'm not so sure. The loss in both Str and armour reduction is pretty huge here and I'm not sure the gain is worth it. I guess it comes down to how often you need that extra point of Str and how often you fight stuff like the Bloodthirster. I often find myself caddying the Talis. Loec around and not using it so maybe this setup is more efficient in the long run? I just can't help but feel you might get burnt at some point by not having the ability to kill that crucial character/unit in a single turn - which you have needed in previous games.

As for the rest of the character setup, it's very similar to mine (now you have the two mages with the crystal & scroll) and I can see why. I think it's the most efficient spend with this list. My problem with the coven you tried to run before was that it diluted everything too much and you became way too reliant on a poor-man's magic phase with the max. level 2's. I think this setup is better but like I said previously, I don't think Heavens is the best choice. I am ready to be proved wrong though as you always seem to be able to get more mileage out of stuff than the rest of us here. I guess it comes with the experience. Having the scroll is nice with this setup as you should have better parity in magic (with the crystal) but it also allows you crush that one crucial phase an opponent has. I see more and more why people say 'never write a list without a scroll'.

I'm still at a loss for what to do with the extra core allotment that you put into the spears. It still seems like a bit of a tack-on unit and is the reason I opted for LSG + archers (28 and 21 of each respectively). I don't have any suggestions though as I realise you are limited on ranged attacks. The idea of Dragon Princes in the special slot is nice. I'm thinking I'm going to move to chariots as my Mk.III Dragon list - or whatever I'm up to now :) . This is for the same reasons you made the change (I imagine) the 7 SMs I had are just too fragile a unit to be taking and like the spears that you have, seem to be a bit of a bolt on because there are extra points to spend. I am interested in how you do without the Skeinsliver though (the main reason the SMs were in the list) as it can be a critical item at times. The other, less obvious loss is the banner they carried. For my list this is an issue as people tend to play Blood & Glory at tournies and losing a banner can be a problem. I'm not sure if this scenario is done at ETC or not?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:17 pm 
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I presume ETC plays the Eternal Kindred as the armour save stacking with other equipment, despite the army book wording?

If you like Iceshard Blizzard so much, why not take it twice? I would have thought you would want a second Iceshard instead of Convergence. Particularly since you could cast it on his Eagles mainly for the bonus damage.
I also feel that the spell is not so well suited to your army because it targets an enemy unit, when your build gains more from targetting your own units. For the most part there are only 2 or 3 things you want to boost - Star Dragon and White Lions, plus maybe BSB. Although you could also boost the DPs, most magical assistance will go on the dragon or horde. The goal is usually the help one of them, no matter what they face, not to weaken some specific enemy.


Did his shooting and magic turn 1 accomplish anything? Given the armies and magic selection, I feel like you could have deployed back and make him come to you, hopefully avoiding some of his bow fire.
I think a lot centers around if you can take out his Eagle characters before they rampage through your small units and generally mess with your White Lion movement.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:38 pm 
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I'm shocked ETC ruled to stack the armor. Even when I played wood elves I argued unyieldingly that it didn't. Its a complete contradiction to the rulebook.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:28 am 
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@John Rainbow - It's a fairly interesting game, indeed ;) The thing with Heavens, in my opinion, is how it combines some super-powerful spells against small units (thunderbolt, chain lightning) with fairly decent augments and hexes. While none are the best, I think that overall it could be a decent utility lore. ETC is played without scenarios so B&G purposes go out the window. As for mileage, I think it's all about synergy. If you don't understand how a unit can work, relative to the rest of your elements, you're pretty much bound to playing powerchoices like a horde of Lions.

@rusty - not sure I agree with the deployment being that far off. Will comment on this later as the game evolves.

@cycloptic squirrel - this is very different from what I think is the optimal course of action. Could you explain your actions a bit more, i.e. why you want to move things up the middle instead of engaging him piecemeal and force his flying characters to act?

@dabber - I think there was a recent FAQ here or something. I just took rusty's word for it. Speaking of which, would you like to elaborate on this rusty? The reason for not doubling up on Iceshard was because I rolled convergence with the first mage, leaving me a better chance of getting a spell of my own choice for the second.

His shooting killed a few Lions while his magic saw his Dryads in the central building receive Wyssan's.

@Lord Anathir - see my reply to dabber ;)

Next couple of events coming up soon!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:54 am 
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:: High Elves Turn 1 ::

First things first - did I want the Lions to engage the house? I decided that I didn't like my chances: if I didn't kill them all I'd be left in a terrible position with next to no choices in my next turn. Instead I shuffled them 3" West, giving the Archers some clear LoS in the center.

The East saw the DP shuffle slightly backward to stay clear of one of the flying heroes. An Eagle blocked the Treekin while Saerith + Naenor moved up to threaten him next turn, should he wish to advance.

Magic gave me a 6v5 split, which was truly terrible. Not much in the way of forcing a scroll here, save for luck. I thus decided to try a risky 3D6 comet for starters, hoping for some good throws. Alas, I got too much as two of the dice came up 6's. That's right, I haven't played Warhammer in months and my first cast, with 3D6, is a "#¤%& miscast. Anyways, I placed the comet in the center of his juicy Archers, a bit ahead of them to try and force them back. The result took a wound off the mage and killed a couple of Archers.

Shooting sees me roll terribly, I manage to kill but a single Archer.

This is the status at the end of Turn 1:

Image

:: Wood Elves Turn 2 ::

His Treekin charge the Eagle, which elects to flee. This leaves them in an awkward position as they realize they'll be left in the open. They redirect into a 10-strong Archer unit, needing 11+ on 2D6 to catch them. Figuring that these Archers don't have a good target and would probably be in a better position if they ran backwards anyways, I elected to not risk anything and fled them as well. The Treekin thus ended up almost exactly where I wanted them: right in front of my characters. His West sort of panicked due to the comet - the support all backed off (leaving his Archmage out of range of pretty much anything interesting) while the Spirits moved further west: the Dryads couldn't avoid the Lions' arc unless they moved West. The Treeman pretty much had to follow suit because of positioning in his T1. This left a huge hole around the comet, which suited me perfectly. The Dryads in the central house stayed put, while his flying heroes moved up to threatening positions.

Magic gave us a 5v6 split and I managed to dispel his one cast - Wyssan's at the central house. The Comet came down this turn but didn't hit anything. Shooting killed another couple of Lions and with that, it was my T2 with this situation:

Image
His BSB is behind the house, with a Treeman. The Netling Hero is on the extreme East flank (board edge) next to the Treekin

Thoughts and suggestions for my T2 very welcome :)

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:51 am 
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cycloptic squirrel wrote:
[regarding first turn moves]
I'd move the white lions up with the building to their right flank and the left flank held back, but still near the river, then I'd have the BSB join. They're looking at accepting possible front charges from a treeman, dryads, and up to three characters (I can't tell where they all are from the photo). With the BSB preventing stomps as long as he's in the unit, you should be able to grind out anything that comes at you, so long as you prevent Savage Beast at all costs. If he doesn't engage, the lions will likely be unable to charge much, but the BSB should have a decent line at the archmage, which seems to be the biggest force multiplier in the list.
Curu Olannon wrote:
this is very different from what I think is the optimal course of action. Could you explain your actions a bit more, i.e. why you want to move things up the middle instead of engaging him piecemeal and force his flying characters to act?

From the initial picture, it looked as though his forces were already divided: one treeman was on the far side of the river and the treekin had committed to the outside edge of the house. Advancing the lions up the middle and having the BSB join creates a credible threat that must be dealt with, hopefully drawing in the treeman and a character or two. He has the option of leaving them be and just shooting at them, in which case they'll attract a lot of fire, but that will give your BSB a chance to try and charge the wizard or at least get into the back field.
The main thrust is to threaten his magic and fire base early on. Hanging back and advancing down one flank or the other with your flyers is certainly an option, but in my own games, this usually takes longer than I expect (though from your position in turn two it's looking like that may not be an issue here). The advancement is also about trying to sucker in a eagle noble or two into combat with your lions; with how mobile the eagle riders are, they can pretty much choose their battles, so my thought is to present them with a unit they can't ignore.
What I proposed is certainly very aggressive, and if he declines to fight, the battle could easily devole into a battle where your heavies are taking out his support while his heavies are taking out yours, but I think you edge him out in that scenario.
Overall, I think we have the same principle in mind, just that I'd try and force up the middle while keeping the flanks distracted whereas you look like you're going for engagement on the eastern flank.

Curu Olannon wrote:
Thoughts and suggestions for my T2 very welcome :)

Charge the dragon and princes into the treekin? If you loose the fire breath, you should be able to break steadfast and have the princes overrun into the nettling noble.
I'm at a loss at what to do with the lions at this point; I still don't like the odds at clearing the building (50/50 with Convergence?) and I'd be wary of advancing them up the middle at this point. I might just back up and have the two mages join; if his eagle nobles want to come in after them, the lions are a big deterrent. In later turns when you're advancing them again, the mages can rejoin their original units.



Rusty - pardon the question as I have little experience with wood elves; why did you split the treemen? Last report you had them together and they seemed to provide a very credible threat.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:19 am 
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Well played Sir
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Off topic but, who's rolling the huge dice, and do they roll better than the small ones? Mine seem to hate me...

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:21 am 
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@cycloptic squirrel - thanks for the elaboration! If I had sent my Lions + BSB into the center, his Treemen would both be in range but out of LoS for strangleroot attacks. Also, I believe I would quickly find myself in short range of the Glade Guard, while putting the BSB in range of Amber Spear as well. Long story short, the Lions would be disintegrated by his firepower in a turn or two. As far as getting into the back field goes, this is doable regardless of approach as the flying characters are so swift and strong. The idea was always to break through to his mage and archers in the later turns of the game, I just couldn't risk him doing the same to me with his Treekin AND flying characters. If getting into position and going through a flank to get his back field frequently takes longer than expected for you, perhaps you aren't decisive enough in your moves or you don't have strong enough elements. Bear in mind here that I have the last turn of the game, which is highly flexible in this kind of a situation.

As for the Dryads, I agree that it's not a very cool scenario still, however his West flank is now unable to interrupt if I fail to kill them, while his Archers are fairly far away.

With regards to his Treemen this did pose a bit of a problem for me: I think splitting them up was a good choice here, as otherwise I could've positioned the Lions more aggressively towards his West flank. The problem, I think, was fearing the Lions with the Dryads so much and positioning them so that the Treeman pretty much had to back.

@Elessehta of Yvresse - we were both using the same dice. I don't think we had any outrageous throws in this game, not that I recall anyhow. Of course there are a few wacky rolls but that's all part of the variance in the game and nothing was perceived as insane by either of us.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:52 pm 
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Got it; I had completely forgotten about the strangleroot attack #-o
I think I still would have gone for it, but bear in mind that at times I am most certainly be too aggressive for my own good at times.
In the same thought of my own playstyle, I feel I am decisive enough and have the strength, I just don't work enough to set up the force concentration needed to break through in a timely manner. I am working on this, and your battle reports have been a wonderful resource.

Looking forward to seeing how the rest of the game plays out!


EDIT: (reply to rusty's response below) OK, that makes sense. Thanks for the explanation!


Last edited by cycloptic squirrel on Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:58 pm 
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@Dabber and Lord Anathir
About my hero setups.
First, the rules:

GW FAQ
Q. May a character from the Eternal Kindred take additional
armour or weapons and still benefit from the Eternal Guard fighting
style? (p68)
A. Yes.

ETC FAQ:
1. How does the eternal kindred now work after the GW faq?
A. Bearer gains +2 to armor save and additional attack special rule as long as he's not armed with any
magic armor or magic weapon. The Eternal fighting style now stacks with gw, light armor and such.

Rules-wise, it's clear. Background-wise, it's a flagrant disregard :twisted: . Balancewise I think they stack up fairly well to similar HE, DE and Empire heroes, maybe even a little weaker.

My list is pretty much copy of one used by Bogi in this years ETC. I wanted to try something a bit different, not necessarily more powerful. This is only my second game with the list so far, and I think it requires a fair bit of learning. During the game you will se blue, green and yellow markers on the bases do differentiate the three heroes. They have a heapload of magic items between them, and all have different roles.

So far I find the Flying Circus fun to play, and not too powerful. Although I'll make sure to inform my opponents of the FAQ beforehand.

@cycloptic squirrel
My usual order of deployment is eagles, dryads, treemen, glade guard, treekin, characters. Treekin are my least manouverable unit and usually go last, unless an opportunity appear. Glade guard sometimes deploy early if they have a good target. Here I planned already before deployment to aim all shots for the white lions. Treemen are able to move 10" laterally, so are fairly mobile. In this game I left one on Curu's western flank to protect the glade guard. In hindsight it would be better to have that treeman in the middle. But then there's a good chance that Curu would have deployed Dragon princes or white lions on the western flank. The most pressing consideration is the dragon and accompanying BSB, who always deploy last. This is a huge advantage to a dragon list, the ability to deploy such a large presentage of it's combat power late. In conclusion, the treeman deployed on the west flank before I knew where all HE units would deploy.

@Curu
In my turn 2 I believe I made two big mistakes.
One was "panicking" because of the comet. My treeman could probably have ignored 2D6 S4 hits and moved eastward, not blocking the dryads. Likewise my mage could have leaped units towards the action on the east flank. Historically, I have lost most of a WE army due to one cast of Comet (back in 6th), so I was probably thraumatized #-o

My second mistake was charging the Treekin out in the open for the dragon to charge.


Looking forward to turn two.

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