Thanks for the feedback, everyone.
SpellArcher wrote:
'The standard of the High Elves -blazing furiously in the sunlight.'
Epic stuff!
Tiralya wrote:
I loved the little fluffy bit, and they way it worked in the game was priceless, well played Sir.
Elithmar of Lothern wrote:
Excellent game! I loved the fluffy bits too. Aenarion couldn't have done better.

Cheers boys! The BSB came good, eh? Steadfast on LD7 isn't the same as unbreakable...
Battle Review - High Elves vs Warriors of ChaosSwordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
This is a very good example of how flexible your army is and one of the aspects I tried to use when I played with it. Your characters can dart from the unit any time and if you only remember to position the unit properly, they have a lot of opportunities to be useful with or without their bodyguards. The situation on the board changed and your units cannot make a combined charge? No worries, you can go with more individual hunt and earn some points too.
Thanks, Swordmaster.
In general terms, I think this latest report is a really good example of the flexibility of cavalry characters. We typically tend to look upon our characters as unit upgrades: effectively buff spells which can't be dispelled (but which can, annoyingly, take a cannonball to the face). This battle was a nice reminder that every character you pick is an individual unit who can do what he wants. It just so happens that, mounted on a horse, your character will be able to run individual duties much more effectively than a footslogger for the best armour save at the least possible price. Oftentimes you'll notice that my characters just stick in their silver helms and run with the bus. Occasionally, however, their ability to run solo at speed can win games. A few games ago, it pulled back me a win against lizardmen when an untimely Flesh to Stone ground my entire attack to a shuddering halt. And here, we see a single BSB catch me a boatload of points! A lot of credit goes to my combined shooting and magic phase for the dead sorcerer, though. By removing his ward save and having the repeaters on standby, I forced him to flee to cover and had my cavalry there to put his retreating options under serious pressure. As demonstrated here, repeater bolt throwers are as much about board-control as they are about the damage they actually cause.
Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
I am not sure, however, if reforming, thus enabling marauders to move further than their normal movement allowance, counts when they wanted to enter the building. I don't have the book with me at the moment but it does not look clear to me.
I had my eye on this but, since there were a few rules quibbles this game (I only put up the ones I wasn't sure I got right), I didn't bother to fret about it. I think it was ok but, for the record, you're perfectly correct: you can reform into a building so long as no models move more than double their movement in the process of making the reform. It's a good trick to remember, anyway.
In respect of charging out of units (quibble 3)...
Nicene wrote:
I think your opponent certainly has the right of this issue about the solo character charging (whether in a unit or otherwise). According to your diagram, it seems that Seredain would indeed be wheeling (holding his left front corner still) to the left when exiting the unit.
Yes, having re-read the rules, I think this is correct. At the time, I was going by the (deceptive) picture in the rulebook showing the chaos lord charging out of his unit at an angle. The wording, though, says that, if a character charges out of a unit, normal rules for movement resume. I don't have the book on me now, but the wording is that these rules apply
as he leaves. As Curu said, then this means that a character will always have to move straight out of the ranks before being free to perform other manoeuvres. Something to bear in mind.
Nicene wrote:
I can't understand the tactics of your opponent. He would have had a chance to do some damage on the east while your DPs were prancing around the building; seems like he should have been pressing forward at full speed. Isn't that what his list is designed to do?
The Tactics of the Chaos ArmyActually it isn't. His list is designed to scare the crap out of you with Gateway, Flickering Fire, Treason and/or a Hellcannon+Pandemonium, and force you into the embrace of all these beefy infantry units. Getting outshot by High Elves and losing his Level 4 just shook him up and he wasn't in a great place when it came to devising a new plan. It will be more interesting to see how it goes the next time we play: I'd be surprised if he wasn't a little more aggressive.
In this game, though, I had the east flank covered. Although they spent four turns shifting into a flanking position, I actually never moved the dragon princes after Turn 1 so that they
weren't facing the centre of the board. Even so, I was deployed well back so, if the marauder bus came forward, I wouldn't have had to engage them before Turn 4 and, when it came to it, I had a combination of the two archer units (both capable of close combat kills against these marauders), the dragon princes and the white lions, possibly with another turn of harassment provided by sacrificing the small archers. If the lions had to go into the warriors (and I was moving them up on Turn 4 to do this once my missiles had taken their toll), I had enough to hold the Tzeentch marauders before bringing the lions back into the game. In short, 4 High Elf units with missile power trumps two units of Chaos.
The chosen were the weird thing. Perhaps he was worried about leaving his east flank to be surrounded, but I couldn't understand why he didn't bring them forward. Ultimately, I planned to shove the prince into them and to keep challenging or, failing that, put the robed archmage into their flank and hold with the BSB. Since the prince was busy and the BSB was too far away to provide re-rolls, using the archmage as a roadblock would have been risky so, if I were my opponent, I'd have had those chosen bombing forward as quickly as possible. At the least, this would have forced me to use my eagles to pin them rather than collecting points from dogs and keeping the Khorne marauders facing away from my BSB. Ultimately, though, with the sorceror lord dead, my cavalry characters closing in on the hellcannon and an eagle/robed archmage to hold the chosen at bay (with the BSB nearby), this particular game was going my way. This is my problem with Chosen deathstar lists: if this unit doesn't perform, the army doesn't win unless the Level 4 and the hellcannon take up all the slack. With those weapons neautralised or underperforming, I just don't think the deathstar works.
Furion wrote:
Quote:
a double-shrine Tzeentch chosen unit toting the Eye of the Gods manipulation item and the Terror banner. In this instance, the controlling player (who's actually a really cool guy and excellent player, by the way, though you might hate him for this!), deliberately chooses Eye gifts he already has (using the item), so that he can keep rolling on the Eye table until he gets what he wants (the +1 attack, +1 toughness or ward save). I've literally stood there for 5 minutes and watched him roll these dice. He knows it sucks, but apparently there's no rule against it so he's free to take advantage.
This is done perfectly by the rules. Also, if he would have Mask of EEE he would also be entitled to make the reroll for fear/terror result.
Yeah this is exactly what my opponent had done. I refer to there being a 'Terror Banner' plus an 'Eye of the Gods manipulation item' [Edit: 'Favour of the Gods', SA tells me]. The end result is the same, of course. I'm not too familiar with the names of Chaos items but, in any event, my opponent was packing the full chosen combo.
Shinzou wrote:
Seradin: Question about the A-Mage: Is it possible to take 2 lvl 2s instead? you lose the 4+ on activating spells, but still got +3 to dispell, with this you could potentialy divide your magic between 2 mages. With this you could hopefully get one mage who is more combat-oriented and one that can stay back more, to minimize the risk of losing the whole magicphase early?
Edit: Also this would give you 2 drain magic if this is necessary?
This is a really good question, Shinzou. I hadn't thought about this point until you raised it, but I've been having a good think...
High Magic: One Archmage or Two Level 2s?For most lores, this is a no brainer: you'll pick the archmage because you need to get the big rolls for the big spells without relying on getting
Irresistable Force. However since I've plumped for High Magic, which can function perfectly well for a level 2, replacing the archmage with two of them is a very serious proposition. Primarily, in terms of magic defense, it means the army can get a big boost by taking both the scroll and the annullian crystal - excellent. It also would give me access to two shields to protect my units (or have two goes at protecting one unit), and two drain magics if I wanted to dedicate myself to defense against the more expensive enemy magic phases.
There are a few reasons, however, while I'll keep the archmage. Firstly, the big one: with High Magic, a scroll and +5 to dispel, my magic defense is already very handy indeed. Because the lore brings with it a cheap magic nerf and a
Remains in Play spell that your opponent will almost always want to get rid of, enemy magic phases will usually be damaged pretty handily assuming you've had any power dice to play with (and, if you didn't, you have your scroll and +5). This is a lot to be getting on with. Having said that, throwing in the Annullian Crystal on two level 2s makes my defense better, for sure. I get the 2-dice swing and (usefully), if I miss a dispel with one mage, I can still have a +3 bonus and use the scroll later in the phase with mage number 2.
Is it worth, though, improving a capability I already have for what I lose? Firstly, since I don't have the Banner of Sorcery, every power dice matters. A +2 bonus to cast is, on conservative estimates, an extra dice for important casts (or an extra dice for my opponent's dispel roll). Over the course of an entire magic phase (perhaps 3 or 4 casts from High Lore), this makes a difference. Level 2's will not pack the same punch when casting spells. This makes the other things that High Magic is good at, like Vaul's and Arrow Curse and Flames, less effective. Since these spells fit so well in my army (to me, they're more important than a 2nd Shield of Saphery), I'm not too keen to weaken my ability to force them through just for that bit more defense.
Some other things that, for my list, make a difference. Firstly, the cloak. Of course, I can equip a 2nd level 2 with the cloak but, if I do that, the only thing I'd get out of the extra caster would be the chance to cast Shield twice - not enough. Really it's all about the Crystal and, if I'm taking that, I no longer have the ethereal mage to throw infront of monsters and steam tanks. The prince can't be everywhere at once, and my only steadfast block is the spearelves. Having that extra roadblock (or unit to flank something like a shrine for the static res), is invaluable. As discussed earlier, Folariath's Robe also liberates a unit from having to babysit the archmage and jeopardise their own plans. Taking two mages potentially does this to two units - a tactical limitation I'd rather not live with (leaving aside the stress of keeping two mages alive all game).
Lastly, Leadership. It is an inconvenient truth of the cavalry prince list that, at some stage, your hard-charging knights will put themselves more than 12" away from an important infantry unit. I'm pretty good at mitigating this: the white lions are protected by their item choice and you'll notice now that my spears and swordmasters - who lack leadership protection - will often run near my knights during the initial advance. Deployment and movement options need to be flexible, however, and with that in mind, giving one of my units a LD9 upgrade is a nice safety net.
List Edit - The Other Trickster's ShardLastly, I mentioned during the report that I needed to get the Other Trickster's Shard in. This decision has been a long time coming, but it took me having to hack my way through an 'ol' boots' warshine to feel that, when they get good dice, units with ward saves can be a total pain. As it turns out, the only thing I was worried about (magical attacks), is easily solved by transferring the Amulet of Light onto the swordmasters. This means I don't have the flexibility of being able to deploy the BSB to counter ethereals, but the swordmasters are a good unit for tearing into them (especially the new Wraith models in VC melee units), while I still have the magic weapon in the silver helms and (almost certainly) a magic missile on the archmage. Lastly, and most importantly, the prince now has access to the Shard always and the Talisman when he really needs it, while the BSB also benefits alongside any helms allocating attacks against models in base contact with him. This cavalry unit just took a big step up in terms of killing power against some of the toughest opponents. Here's the latest list:
Prince - Barded Steed, Dragon Armour, Shield, Giant Blade, Helm of Fortune, Talisman of Loec - 281
Archmage - Level 4, High Magic, Folariath's Robe, Dispel Scroll - 325
Battle Standard Bearer - Barded Steed, Great Weapon, Heavy Armour, Shield, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone, Other Trickster's Shard - 190
30 Spearelves - Full Command - 295
18 Archers - Musician, Standard, Banner of Eternal Flame - 223
10 Archers - 110
14 Swordmasters - Bladelord, Amulet of Light - 237
12 White Lions - Standard, Gleaming Pennant - 197
8 Silver Helms - Musician, Shields - 192
5 Dragon Princes - 150
2 Repeater Bolt Throwers - 200
2 Eagles - 100
= 2500 points
Oh yeah, the Plucker Pendant's gone again (er... at least I have Shield). Boo! Also, the white lion guardian with the Gem of Courage is replaced by a standard with the Gleaming Pennant. Ostensibly, this was to get the points for the Shard, and there are problems with the cost-cutting. I lose a Str 6 attack and I lose the ability to challenge out huge characters that might stomp all over the lions. On the plus side, the Gleaming Pennant is a better item than the Gem, since you only need to use it once you've failed a test, whereas you have to guess with the Gem and, therefore, pretty much always use it for your first test (when is there a good time to fail a leadership test with white lions?). I also get the extra standard for Blood and Glory. As long as my lions don't keep running into greater daemons, then, I shouldn't miss the guardian too much. All in all, I'm pretty darn happy with the new draft. Bring on the ethereals and ward saves!
Arratak wrote:
Hey where's seradin's most recent and up to date list??
Shinzou wrote:
I think that the list on page 1 isnt the most recent one anymore so 3 or 4 pages back is where I would look.
I've let the contents page slip of late (I'll update it with a major session soon enough), but the 'Latest List' is now up there as per usual. Even if I don't add in all the article links to the contents page (and I'm about 5 pages behind), I'll usually try and keep the 'latest list' entry up to date for ease of reference.
As ever, thanks for reading.