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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:35 pm 
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The Cavalry Prince
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First Battle against the Ogres - Preview

P.S. Had my first game against Ogres the other day. We only got to turn 4, but I learned a lot! It was a good friendly game- my opponent was drawing up an army and wanted to test it out (hence all the unassembled models). In brief, he had:

Slaughtermaster- Sickle, armour, ward save
Bruiser BSB

16 Irongut Funbus FC - Banner of Discipline (characters here)
8 Bulls FC

3 Mournfang cavalry
Ironblaster
Ironblaster (monsters with cannons! Nooo!)
1 Thundertusk
3 Sabretusks (running individually)

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I'll do a mini-report and discuss deployment once I've gone off and eaten something. I enjoyed deploying against an army packing a bunch of fast thundering units - something of a challenge. Take a look at the above picture, though, and you should guess the plan. For now, though, I'm starving...

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Last edited by Seredain on Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:41 pm 
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Just a caveat to Seredain's great points. I just played a match up against a Lizardmen army and we both had lvl 4's with the Lore of Life. The difference here is that my lvl 4 was stationed in my innocent looking unit of 10 lowly archers, while my general was with the unit of Phoenix Guard. My opponent went for the larger and more threatening unit of elites, much to my relief. My strength 4 general survived along with 7 of the hardiest Phoenix Guard. This allowed me to continue to attempt to blast his Slann out of a unit of 20-25 Temple Guard, a unit begging to be dwellered. I eventually lost the match, but at the end I had one archer left on the field and he was roaming around with the Engine of the Gods. His Slann had been sucked into the earth, while my mage was eventually burned to a crisp by the Engine.

I say all that to demonstrate the point of not dumping archmages into large units which beg to have nuclear bombs dropped in their midst. This principle works the same when artillery is involved.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:33 pm 
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I see you have cruelly deprived this opponent of beer. Which could backfire. Loving the freehand!

Dwellers...the debate goes on! Good points of course.

I was worrying about what Dark Elf shooting might do to my unit of 10 Swordmasters. Then it suddenly occurred to me what my shooting will do to his T3 5+ Save infantry! With the rise of Mindrazor and the Cauldron over pure shooty lists, our range is looking even more important.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:11 am 
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Thanks Seredain! As always you explain things in such a clear manner that it is hard to believe one might not have seen it already. i could only add "It's all in the mind". If you don't believe you can do something against your opponent's plans then you do not even try. And that is not good. It also applies to the situation when you lose your expensive character early in the game. It is obviously more difficult to keep fighting but there is still an army to use and other options to exploit.

Dark Elf Dreadlord is very annoying one and I agree that if you can feed him other targets he should be less dangerous. For example, if there are 5 archers remaining to fight him then they are steadfast and he can lose precious time trying to get rid of them.

As to your game against the Ogres I must say this is probably to most unique looking OK army I have ever seen :) Very interesting conversions here, can't wait to see paining job :)

I really like the terrain you have here. Are there any magical forests/building there? If yes, what are they?

It seems to me you will try to outflank his army and use cavalry to destroy mournfangs and ironblasters but then if you were to do that with cavalry only it might be very difficult task. On the other hand each of your characters is capable of defeating Ironblasters in one-on-one combats. So if you can make that charge against Mournfangs and even losing all silver helms but keeping the Prince and BSB you can clear that flank and earn a lot of points. While the rest of the army waits, shoots and keeps very annoying.

Looking forward to see if I am at least partially right about the outcome :) Cheers!

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High Elves MSU - Observations

Rabidnid wrote:
Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:13 am 
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SpellArcher wrote:
I see you have cruelly deprived this opponent of beer. Which could backfire.

Presumably why he his folding his arms like that. I bet he's miffed.

SpellArcher wrote:
I was worrying about what Dark Elf shooting might do to my unit of 10 Swordmasters. Then it suddenly occurred to me what my shooting will do to his T3 5+ Save infantry! With the rise of Mindrazor and the Cauldron over pure shooty lists, our range is looking even more important.

Dark Elf Armies IV: A New Hope

I haven't seen enough dark elf armies to know, but it's possible that many dark elf lists are getting greedy and losing some of their serious strengths. I think I can handle crossbowmen but I do hate them, especially when they're backed up by reapers, magic and fast-moving power-house units like the hydra.

As you suggest, though, it seems that fewer DE armies are taking shooting in favour of choosing more powerful combat units and, frankly, I feel more comfortable against an army made up of soft combat infantry. That DE list has to advance against a High Elf army with even average shooting and, if we're packing manoeuvreable units as well, I think we've got an advantage there (as long as we can keep tabs on the dreadlord). I also think that shadow magic loses some of its 'multi-threat' strengths when you can't use withering in conjunction with a decent shooting phase to really cause problems in the early turns. Here, you'd just have to watch out for the miasma + pit/pendulum combo at range and, if your opponent's going for that, he often won't have enough dice to trouble you with searing doom as well (which, I admit, would be a worrisome spell for me!).

Perhaps our Druchii friends have an opinion on this?

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
If you don't believe you can do something against your opponent's plans then you do not even try. And that is not good. It also applies to the situation when you lose your expensive character early in the game. It is obviously more difficult to keep fighting but there is still an army to use and other options to exploit.

Warhammer's a very psychological game, ain't it? A good friend of mine once painted up a very beautiful chaos army back in 5th Ed- with a truly fantastic conversion of a two-headed dragon. Unfortunately, all this effort so often went to pot whenever something bad or unlucky happened to him- he'd just get cross, decide he didn't have a chance, and make stupid mistakes for the rest of the game.

The moral is- keep your head up and keep playing! This issue will, as you'll see, turn out to be very important in the ogres game...

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
I really like the terrain you have here. Are there any magical forests/building there? If yes, what are they?

We just played all the terrain as normal. We didn't have very much time at all (this was at the Angel GW store, we were late in and we had hangovers), so we needed to crack on. Even then, mind, we only got to Turn 4.

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
It seems to me you will try to outflank his army and use cavalry to destroy mournfangs and ironblasters but then if you were to do that with cavalry only it might be very difficult task. On the other hand each of your characters is capable of defeating Ironblasters in one-on-one combats. So if you can make that charge against Mournfangs and even losing all silver helms but keeping the Prince and BSB you can clear that flank and earn a lot of points. While the rest of the army waits, shoots and keeps very annoying.

A pretty good guess, SM ;)

Remember, though, that getting my characters to just beat the ironblasters isn't the most important issue: I need to beat them quickly and get round the back before that Gut Bus hits my soft centre. The clock will be ticking on this one...

Oberon wrote:
Any army that is dependent on a lvl 4 (this is for all you shadow users!) is going to be handicapped when facing a shrewd opponent who can wield several tactical choices for decapitating the snake, be it dwellers or Seredain's swift redeployment. While slaying the archmage in Seredain's force or my own would be a blow to our combat support and magic defense, I can attest from experience that it is not the end game. This is because our force benefits from magic but is not dependent upon it to secure victory.

I didn't mention it before, Oberon, but thanks for the write up. Good stuff.

Bounce wrote:
So my thoughts are could you drop the Silver Helms and just have the Prince go alone or with a mounted BSB perhaps and rove around backing up your other troops whereever they need it. As he is awesome but the silver helms die pretty easy. Also I quite liked the radiant gem but I think an Ogre Blade might have been better.

Glad you had a crack at the CP, Bounce! But:

Lose the Silver Helms? Wha??

Remember a couple of things about the silver helms: they die no more easily than dragon princes (unless the attacks are flaming), but they're cheaper so you can afford more of them. They're about as hard as high elf troops can be, actually, and life magic can help when they're in a bind. Always, though, make sure they can beat their target. Although they can grind, they're not really meant to. It's important, if you're facing a very powerful/ steadfast enemy, that you use your army's many tools to hammer it into vulnerability. If it's a deep-ranked unit, get the spears in alongside, or pile some magic/shooting into it and add swordmasters with the knights. Typically, the cavalry should be going it alone (and winning) on the flanks against smaller/more elite units before turning in on the big blocks in conjunction with the infantry. Get this combined approach down and you'll begin to have more success with the cavalry- and your helms should live longer. :)

Also remember the importance of making your characters machine-proof. It's no good having a powerful character who is just likely to get smashed by a cannon ball or stone shot. Even a 4+ ward is dodgy odds against machines, while the charmed shield changes the build completely. If you want to field cavalry characters, you really do need to field cavalry!

dabber wrote:
Malcontent wrote:
Out of curiosity, have any of your opponents used Fulminating Flame Cage or Net of Amyntok against your Helm Bus? It seems that those spells would create a significant problem for their ability to get where they are needed.

Flame Cage won't do significant damage against 2+ armour saves. Net will be passed 2/3 of the time by the character, so the Silver Helm unit is not a likely target. Best target of Net is a war machine or a unit containing a caster.

Dabber put this well. Honestly, I've only run into the Net of Amyntok once- against Empire. The guy cast it at my swordmasters, they passed their test and just ignored it. Along with all his guns shooting wide, he found that a bit demoralising!

Curu Olannon wrote:
As for Seredain going for a more magic-heavy list, I'm not surprised. Although including the Archmage in the first place was a 'because-I-can-he's-so-cheap' approach, it's obvious that spending the few extra points to make the magic more potent gives you way more firepower. Not taking the Banner of Sorcery in a High Elf list requires, in my opinion, a very good reason. It's just such a powerful item.

Exactly. It's like allowing your mage to take another brilliant arcane choice. After a while I did begin to wonder, having read my own paragraph on the old list's weaknesses (back on page 6, I think), why I wasn't taking this flag. I'd recorded not having it as a weakness in and of itself! That and my lack of banners for Blood and Glory, which has now also been rectified. Honestly, though, it was getting the extra eagle alongside the banner that made all the difference for me. I should say that the reduction in the size of the white lions has been a bit upsetting but, on balance, I feel the list has more versatility than it did.

Mini-Update - the Gem of Courage

A mini-update to mention here: those eagle-eyed amongst you will have noticed, in the ogres photo above, that the white lions are down to 10 models now. This is because I've used the 5 points left over from the archmage's a 6+ ward upgrade and lost the pigeon-plucker-pendant (I love the idea of it but I've literally only faced one big flyer so far in 8th), in order to upgrade the white lions with the Gem of Courage. This is an item I've begun to see as increasingly important since playing leadership-bomb daemons, but is also very useful in any event since the lions' task of fighting a particular monster here-or-there often puts them out of Seredain's inspiring presence. The extra dice pumping into Life magic should make up for the loss of one model, too.


Ogres mini-report on the way!

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Last edited by Seredain on Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:10 am 
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I love the hand-scrawled replacements for the unassembled ogre units. Charmingly appropriate since they look like cave drawings. (This is no slur on your artistic competency! :) )

What were the details on the arch-mage's 6+ ward save? Was a Seed of Rebirth replacing _ _ _ _ _?

Have to agree on the Pigeon Plucker. Big flyers are rare. Have to say that knowing my local meta-game that only one player has a big flyer (the new black dragon) and I don't when if ever he'll deploy it).


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:59 pm 
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ether_drake wrote:
I love the hand-scrawled replacements for the unassembled ogre units. Charmingly appropriate since they look like cave drawings. (This is no slur on your artistic competency! :) )

In the art-bizz we like to call this style 'naive'. :)

ether_drake wrote:
What were the details on the arch-mage's 6+ ward save? Was a Seed of Rebirth replacing _ _ _ _ _?

The current list looks like this:

Prince - Barded Steed, Dragon Armour, Shield, Giant Blade, Helm of Fortune, Talisman of Loec - 281
Archmage - Level 4, Life Magic, Dispel Scroll, Talisman of Protection - 290
Battle Standard Bearer - Barded Steed, Great Weapon, Heavy Armour, Shield, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone, Amulet of Light - 190

30 Spearelves - Full Command, Gleaming Pennant - 300
14 Archers - Musician, Standard - 169
14 Archers - Musician - 159

14 Swordmasters - Bladelord, Standard, Banner of Sorcery - 284
10 White Lions - Full Command, Gem of Courage, Banner of Eternal Flame - 200
8 Silver Helms - Musician, Shields - 192
5 Dragon Princes - 150
1 Tiranoc Chariot - 85

1 Repeater Bolt Thrower - 100
2 Eagles - 100

= 2500 points

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:56 pm 
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What happened to 2nd bolt thrower?

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High Elves MSU - Observations

Rabidnid wrote:
Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:07 pm 
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I've been away for a while, and I come back to find this absolutely amazing thread.

One of my topics got a brief mention very early on - I was working on the "Classical Themed Army" mentioned many, many pages ago. Well, I'm still pottering along with it, and this thread has been awesome for refining my tactics...even if not my army list selection as there are so many good ideas and so few points...Well, this thread and my dissertation together really! The armies presented do look quite strong and, as proved by the battle reports, effective but they aren't quite my cup of tea (although very similar, as I am likewise approaching my army from a Macedonian-influenced perspective).

I run (or am planning to, anyway) my army slightly different to Seredain - I prefer having more than one weighty Spearmen blocks about which to swing my force, and to help engage enemy infantry in combat, and have a dislike of chariots (within my particular army - I think they are awesome otherwise). I have noticed that Seredain's army can potentially come unstuck when enemy infantry manages to manoeuvre to present some tough choices (it seems that in many games luck won out, and charges didn't fail/the enemy hadn't prevented the Cavalry escaping the trap etc.), and my own way of dealing with this is to have more Spearmen!

My take on this style of list is here: viewtopic.php?f=67&t=37119. I would really appreciate it if the people here dropped by to share their wisdom - in the mean time, I want to thank Seredain for such a helpful thread, and give him a nerdy high-five, as is appropriate from a Classicist (well, not qualified yet) to an Ancient Historian :D.


Last edited by Nemo on Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:38 pm 
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Seredain wrote:
The moral is- keep your head up and keep playing!

So true. Had a game today where every dice roll went bad by 1, everything was 1" the wrong way. Started to get the face on. You just have to stop, play as if it's turn 1 and take what you can get. Things turned around a little and got out with a minor loss.

Funny you should mention the Banner of Sorcery. I've just played without it for the first time with High Elves and to be honest, didn't miss it that much. This was however with just one Lvl3 with four spells. I firmly believe you need a decent repertoire to make proper use of it, not just number of spells but a selection where you are going to have several decent casts on per turn, for when you roll high on Winds of Magic.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:30 am 
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We have to play sometime on UB dude, I'm free basically any day.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:46 am 
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Mini-report: High Elves vs Ogre Kingdoms

Spells

I got: Awakening, Throne of Vines, Flesh to Stone and Regrowth. I had the option to choose Dwellers but, in this instance, durability was going to be more of a problem for my T3 elves than damage dealing. My units could kill lots, but they'd be harder pushed to take the hits so, with that in mind, I plumped for Regrowth.

He got spells 1 to 4. This included trollguts (regen); spine marrow (stubborn) a 2d6 Str1 no armour save DD spell and another spell that I can't remember right now. My impression of the ogre magic? I don't remember all the spells, but it looked pretty good for them in terms of synergy, but not crazy good. The range, in particular, didn't seem all that impressive.

Image
Seredain didn't have many pictures of the battle, so he thought he'd milk this one. (btw - the sabretusks and mournfang cavalry have made their 1st turn moves in this shot).

Deployment and the Plan

My opponent had 3 sabretusks to put down but, before long, it became obvious where his bus was going and, all in all, his deployment was pretty much as expected. I obviously wanted to delay fighting those ironguts for as long as possible and resolved to take out the other ogre units before getting a surround off and annihilating the bus. To this end, I spread my units out nice and wide. Ostensibly, the main strike would come from my silver helms on the left, with the swordmasters and chariot in close support (I wasn't familiar with the ogre cavalry or gunbeasts, but I figured my helm hammer could take 'em!). In the centre, it was all about harassment and, latterly, standing firm. The eagles would hold up the bus and my stubborn infantry, with archmage support, would stand when they had to and try and weather the storm long enough for my cavalry to ride to the rescue. On the right, my dragon princes, archers and repeater formed a strike/counter attack force the should be able to envelope the ogres there. Sabretusks aren't that hard: once my arrows had cleared them out, the princes would get around the flank and, when the time came, they and the archers would take on the bulls in combat: lances and swords in combination should do it: bulls aren't that hard to kill: T4, no armour.

As for the thundertusk, I knew that it had poor armour. I'd put as many missiles into it as I could and try and grind it out with the infantry. Ordinarily I'd put the knights through it: it isn't steadfast and, if I pop Loec on the helms, I'm very likely to total it in one round if I've put a wound on it with missiles first: it's got such a wide base, you can squeeze in a lot of attacks. Here, though, I wanted to clear out the ogre cavalry and cannons early- best done by my fastest hittiest troops. We'd have to see what the spears could do under pressure.

Leaving Fortress High Elf

A final couple of points on deployment. Against a bus-led, monster-heavy army like this, it was in my interests to spread out. Firstly, this made it much easier to get at the flanks of this small army on both sides (not common for us elves). By getting at the ogres' flanks and rears with my units I'd be better able to tip the balance. They're not often steadfast: static res matters more. To this end, my units on the far flanks were deployed forward to better strike forward and round the flanks, while the units in the centre (where the trouble was), sat deep to keep out of combat for as long as possible.

Secondly, spreading out like this reduced the effectiveness of the bus itself. For one, it couldn't smash its way through multiple units quickly - it was never going to be overruning into anything. More importantly, though, having its targets spread out meant that it had to expose its flanks too. If it gunned for the white lions, for example, my swordmasters would have its right flank by the time it got there. If it turned towards the swords, the white lions would have its left flank. In each case, I'd be inflicting lots of hits (when it came to it) without receiving a ton of attacks in return. I'd still have to wait for other units to come and help- especially my knights aiming to move round the back, but preparing for the surround early was sensible. And would give my infantry a fighting chance if things went wrong elsewhere. Thinking positively, though, and assuming my knights made it, I'd already begun to build the big surround with which I aimed to crush this big block.

In summary: don't castle your High Elves up against armies likes this. They're much more likely to just smash through you, and you're far less likely to be able to attack effectively by winning a surround. Spread out and move!

Image
A defensive formation built for counter-attack.

Ogres Turn 1

They came on in the same old way. On my left, the ogre cav ventured a little too close to my knights (as pictured) and offered me a 1st turn charge. Hmm.

Ogre magic didn't do much and neither did ogre shooting: the thundertusk's catapult scattered, one of the iron blasters missed and the other only managed to ping two wounds off an eagle (excellent). Surely it wasn't going to be this easy, was it?

High Elves Turn 1

No. My 1st turn charge with the silver helms failed and they now stood staring the mournfang in the face. To cover their sluggish comrades, the swordmasters moved up a little open up a counter-attack on Seredain's right flank should the ogre beasts come thundering in. Before them, the chariot ran forward to flatten the sabretusk stood by the ruins. To further open up a gap between them and the spears, the white lions slid left with the spears and archers staying put. The princes also stood their ground: much easier to take a flank when your enemy has already committed himself forward. My first eagle (the one on full wounds) flew infront of the mournfang and angled toward the left corner. If I didn't get Flesh to Stone up, at least the eagle could prevent a charge on my knights and set up a counter for next turn. Eagle number 2 hovered by my archmage, looking for some Lifebloom TLC.

Magic. To prevent the mournfang from being a problem at all, and having got Throne of Vines up, I chucked 6 dice at Flesh to Stone (not much else to cast and I wanted this to go through). It went off irresistibly, so those Mournfang were staring at T7 helms. Tasty. I just had the miscast to avoid, then.

Image
Oh.

Image
Shit.

You won't see a lot of photos from this point on because, for a good while, I was too busy weeping. My magic phase was gone and so, mostly, were my white lions. Killing the sabretusks on my right with arrows did not put a smile on my face. At least Lecalion had healed the eagle before he exploded... Yay.

Ogres Turn 2

The advance continued. On the left, the mournfang took the charge against my eagle and, when he fled, redirected into the helms. I guess my opponent figured, correctly, that chasing the eagle down would simply take them into the wrong part of the board and leave a flank charge on for my knights. Even so, this wasn't a brilliant situation for my opponent. I'd probably have shifted those mournfang back to try and force another unlucky charge from my knights (not a sure thing but possible)- this combat wasn't going to go well for them, especially since they were too far from the Slaughtermaster to get any magic support.

The shooting phase was better for the ogres: the Thundertusk catapult killed a some spears (though the bolter missed again), and one of the leadblaster cannons picked off a silver helm, having failed to snipe Seredain from his horse. Its fellow tried to snipe an eagle, but overshot.

Magic wasn't that important: very little was in range at this stage. I think my opponent buffed his bus somehow to prevent me from shooting it up with all my missile fire. This was his money unit and he really didn't want me to start picking off guts. Fine by me, though.

In the combat phase, my silver helms (or rather their leaders, who made way to the centre of the unit) tore into the mournfangs, inflicting 5 wounds, and lost none in return. The ogres easily broke but I couldn't run them down. Even so, my knights were on the charge. Game on.

High Elves Turn 2

My chariot charged the sabretusk by the ruins and my silver helms charged the fleeing mournfang, who kept running and just got out of range, forcing a failed charge. Elsewhere, the white lions and spears held back. The dragon princes spurred their horses now, though, and swung out to the right, out of the advancing bulls' charge arc. Eagle number 2 flew forward and blocked the ironguts.

Shooting was pretty decent- 2 wounds went on the thundertusk, bringing it down to 4. In combat, the chariot (predictably) smashed the sabretusk and reformed to face the nearest leadblaster along the edge of the ruins.

Ogres Turn 3

The mournfang rallied. The bulls couldn't charge my princes, so resolved to close in against my infantry instead. They came forward alongside the thundertusk, then, while the poor ironguts rid themselves of the harassing eagle. The two leadblaster both hovered by the ruins to cover against my knights with a combination of cannonballs and sheer bulk.

The shooting phase saw the thundertusk's weapons hit nothing, one leadblaster (the nearest to my knights) snipe my last eagle and the other leadblaster have its gun blow up while trying to snipe the prince. The ogre magic phase wasn't big- regen went up on the thundertusk but that was pretty much it- I actually managed to dispel spinemarrow on the mournfang cavalry. There was possibly a buff up on the gut bus but, since I wasn't intent on fighting it yet, that didn't matter.

High Elves Turn 3

Lots of people have suggested to me that I should lose the tiranoc chariot and spend the points on upgrading my combat units. For 85 points I could upgrade my silver helms to dragon princes, for example! This turn demonstrated another reason why having that extra unit is, tactically, a lovely thing. My chariot charged the nearest leadblaster (a straight vertical charge up the edge of the ruins- the beast had exposed itself to get cannon shots off), and the silver helms declared a charge against the mournfang. In their long line, a move straight through would allow them to clip the leadblaster. Rather than just let them through, then, the mournfang held and hoped for a miracle. Elsewhere, the swordmasters put themselves further into the flank zone of the enemy gut bus, but still at a great distance, while the dragon princes advanced and wheeled around the flank of the bulls until they had a rear charge on.

Shooting saw another wound get through onto the tundertusk, bringing it down to 3.

In combat, Seredain and Caradath demolished the remaining mournfang cavalry and urged their knights on to greater glory. The silver helms duly thundered forward and clipped the leadblaster fighting the chariot. Seredain 'made way' into base contact and, since the chariot hadn't fought yet, got another round of combat in. The chariot knocked two wounds off of the beast with its charge and the prince did the rest: cutting it apart. The knights reformed into their usual 2-ranked formation and they and the chariot turned to face the last leadblaster, close and looking nervous. This flank was mine and I had a charge on the 2nd leadblaster next turn. Very good.

Image
A synchronised charge from the cavalry and chariot smashes through and clears the left flank in a single turn.

Ogres Turn 4

The last turn we could play, since the store was closing. The gut bus was too far away to charge anything, so it came forward and made angry noises at the white lions. The thundertusk, however, attempted a dual charge on the spearelves with the ogre bulls. Alas for them, they were too far away (about 14") and only the monster made it in. The noble elven citizens lowered their shining spears, gritted their teeth and held their ground. Worse for the ogre bulls; their failed charge had not only left the dragon princes with the rear charge, it had now given my green archers, deployed forward on the right flank, a flank charge against them next turn. With a dual flank and rear charge from archers and princes, these bulls were toast!

In the magic phase my opponent gave it the thundertusk regen and, with the Slaughtermaster waving his sickle about, there was nothing I could do to stop him. Luckily I did manage to stop the DD spell from hitting my lions, who I'd need to block the bus off with next turn (in theory). Shooting, happily, saw the remaining leadblaster, who'd retreated from my knights (but not far enough), try to shoot the swordmasters but blow his cannon up. Haha.

Combat, then. The spears did fine- hitting on 3's still saw lots of hits despite the loss of ASF- and put another wound on the thundertusk, which was now down to 2. The beast then trampled 5 spearelves to the ground, but they knew this was coming and didn't even think about giving ground. The held and called on the archers to their right for support...

High Elves Turn 4...

So, this is how things looked.

Image

On the left flank, my silver helms and chariot, just out of shot by the ruins, have wrapped around and are now looking to charge the leadblaster just beyond (the base with the big cannon on it). As you can tell by its position in relation to the ruins in the photo, the elves have an easy charge against it.

On the centre-left, the swordmasters have an easy task in keeping out of sight of the ironguts, since they're now well out to the flank. The lions, poor bastards, will march forward 10" and make sure the ironguts don't just wheel to face the swords or charge the spears. In short, the ironguts are delayed for another turn and my swordmasters and knights will have a flank-rear on them next turn unless, having killed the lions, they turn away from the rest of my army and face towards my knights or swords. In this instance, though, I'll still always have a flank on with either of these units: the ogres can't face both ways. I then either dual charge, or I make the flank charge with the one unit and kill lots. He holds (probably) and reforms to face me. I then take another flank/ rear charge with the 2nd unit and kill a load more. This might break him, especially since he's in the forest and depending on how influential his steadfast/regen spells are. In any case, this is without considering my other units, who should be free to help out because...

...The spears have held and the thundertusk is down to 2 wounds. The blue archers will now take a flank charge into it and so, odds on, it's dead as a dodo this turn- and I have 3 rounds of combat to kill it before the ironguts become a live issue again (my turn, his next turn (eating lions only), my next turn). As for the bulls, they're about to get flanked by the green archers and reared by the DPs, so they're toast. Even with a surviving lord-level caster, I don't think my opponent is going to win this one.

A massive shame we didn't get to play my Turn 4 then but, as you can see, odds are very strong indeed that the only surviving unit by my Turn 5 will be the ironguts and, by that time, they'll be surrounded by my knights, chariot, swordmasters, spears and dragon princes.

Who needs an archmage, eh?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:57 am 
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Hi Seredain!

I really like the way you deploy your army. It is still critical part of the game and if one wants to utilize the speed of fast elements they still need to be in the right position from the start. It is also great to see how units can support each other but didn't move. It was clear on your right flank. Your archers could shoot all the time but when the opportunity presented itself one unit had a clear charge to the flank of thundertusk while the other unit was exactly where it should be for a flank charge against ogres. And they didn't shifted at all as this would make their shooting less accurate. In this particular example it also showed an advantege of having two units instead of one (although having one bigger also has merits, so it is just up to preferences of a player which to chose). I really admire this skill of yours.

Losing the Archmage was unfortunate but he still helped Silver Helms to defeat Mournfangs, even if that unit was in a trouble as you had two powerful characters there to finish them off properly. I think it would be better for your opponent just to play defensively with them and delay your flank attack. It seemed that your opponent could cast spells without much effort but somehow it didn't help him much. Was he choosing wrong targets for spells or maybe he was just rolling poorly for regeneration?

I also liked the way you used a chariot to defeat two enemy units at the same time, something we should always try to look for.
You really make these little, seemingly not significant elements of your army, work very well.

How was your lone RBT doing this game? Is it still good to have one? What if you changed that for another chariot for example?

It is a pity you could not finish the 4th round, it would be great to see that combined charge against Ironguts and flank attacks of archers. However, it is good to see you still have time for playing games and posting reports. :)

Cheers!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:15 pm 
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Yeah, nice comeback!

Reminds me of my last game against Ogres where my AM decided to blow himself up early doors also. I had a go but not as successfully as you did! I too decided that a double envelopment was correct, something I very rarely attempt. One flank went great but not the other, hence the loss. Of course you only get the benefit of Prince and BSB on one flank, as I discovered.

Gem of Courage is interesting...

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:39 pm 
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Hello Seredain!

This community (and especially the Cavalry Prince topic) has inspired me to get back into participating in forums. After reading through this article within the last couple of months I have come around to the idea that any unit in the High Elf army can be made viable in an all-comers build/ tournament environment (though I’d have to say I still can’t make a Dragon Mage work in such an environment). You’re article has tipped me back into wanting to try Silverhelms (still wish they could take a magic banner) and Tiranoc Chariots (they had always just seemed too weak).

I have to say that even before your article I started to come around again to heavy cavalry; mostly because no one in my playing area was using them. People were always taken aback by their threat range, and just how many units could be beaten on the charge by 8-10 cav models (DPs in my case) plus 2 fighting characters (ASF helps A LOT).

After reading your article, I started fielding 2 small units of elite infantry (SMs and WLs), and have been having a blast with them! I really tried MSU in 7th but always had problems because my units would either fail leadership tests (still can’t count on my SMs to pass a Terror check), or would flub their ‘to-hit’ rolls when the combat they wanted finally occurred. Sometimes you have to realize when the dice have told you that a type of tactic is not for you, but no longer! By the way, I have tried going back to a list without those units, and I can’t do it: and I thought I was done painting my HE’s!

8th Edition and HE ASF have brought back the lovely MSU viability. This combined with the Mage-Knight Prince and excellent heavy cav have made this game more fun for me then ever. I’ve been playing my HE’s solid since 8th came out, and I can’t find really any reason to play any other army (build and paint yes, but play, no).

One more point on your tactics from several pages back. I had never been a player who felt like out-deploying the opponent through having more drops was a tactic I would ever like- or be able- to use. Now I am really getting a chance to see the value, and it definitely compliments my finesse play style (as an example, I played MSU Ogres in 7th and White Scars in 40k – not that I play 40k at all anymore).

A bit of a ramble here, but just thought I’d say keep it up! And hopefully, I’ll start posting army pics and maybe describe where I’m at with my current list in another thread.

Thanks Again :D

GW


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GhostWarrior wrote:
Hello Seredain!

I have to say that even before your article I started to come around again to heavy cavalry; mostly because no one in my playing area was using them. People were always taken aback by their threat range, and just how many units could be beaten on the charge by 8-10 cav models (DPs in my case) plus 2 fighting characters (ASF helps A LOT).

A bit of a ramble here, but just thought I’d say keep it up! And hopefully, I’ll start posting army pics and maybe describe where I’m at with my current list in another thread.

Hello GhostWarrior!

Many thanks for your comments. ASF is amazing isn't it? Makes a massive, massive difference to our damage output. And as for cavalry, they've never been more manoeuvreable than in 8th addition. Combine these two features and you have a potentially very powerful force for good! Get building an army and record your adventures for posterity. :)

Nemo wrote:
My take on this style of list is here: viewtopic.php?f=67&t=37119. I would really appreciate it if the people here dropped by to share their wisdom - in the mean time, I want to thank Seredain for such a helpful thread, and give him a nerdy high-five, as is appropriate from a Classicist (well, not qualified yet) to an Ancient Historian :D.


High five! Thanks for the enthusiasm. I'll take a look at your ideas for sure. I like the idea of phalanx-based armies, though I reckon you'll need some hitty elite detachments to work alongside them and enough manoeuvreable/shooting units to ensure you don't lose board dominance. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

SpellArcher wrote:
Funny you should mention the Banner of Sorcery. I've just played without it for the first time with High Elves and to be honest, didn't miss it that much. This was however with just one Lvl3 with four spells. I firmly believe you need a decent repertoire to make proper use of it, not just number of spells but a selection where you are going to have several decent casts on per turn, for when you roll high on Winds of Magic.

An interesting question, this one. I'd like more experience with the banner before coming to a final conclusion, I think. In principle, however, I'd say that getting the right spell through at the right time is as (if not more) important as getting lots of spells through. It's a great comfort to know that my magic phase is likely to successfully manage the use for which it was intended, by having that little extra power to force spells through.

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
What happened to 2nd bolt thrower?

Further to the above thinking, it went for the Banner of Sorcery and an extra eagle. Go back a few pages and you'll see a lot of brainstorming as to what might replace the 2nd repeater. At first, a lot of love went on the Level 1 Metal Mage - to keep my ranged power up against heavy targets, especially the steam tank. But then, against other match-ups, this mage wasn't all that useful, while I had little power to feed both characters. He went and, instead, I settled on the banner and the extra eagle. The 2nd eagle is a wonderful thing and the banner is an excellent safety net for the magic phase: it can always do something.

The bottom line was, I guess, that the banner will be useful against any army: since my spells help my combat units and my combat units are always useful!

Battle Review

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
Hi Seredain!

I really like the way you deploy your army. It is still critical part of the game and if one wants to utilize the speed of fast elements they still need to be in the right position from the start. It is also great to see how units can support each other but didn't move. It was clear on your right flank. Your archers could shoot all the time but when the opportunity presented itself one unit had a clear charge to the flank of thundertusk while the other unit was exactly where it should be for a flank charge against ogres. And they didn't shifted at all as this would make their shooting less accurate.

Thanks SM!

It's a great help to look at the enemy army's units and think 'what's he likely to do with that?' In this case, the ogres had so few units that my opponent was very likely to point them at the most valuable targets. Once I'd delayed the gut bus as planned, then, those bulls were likely to head for the spears (especially after the thundertusk started taking wounds) and, when they tried that, they were going to get flanked. I think ogres need to choose their toys carefully. Take too many (leadblasters, mournfang, gutbus, thundertusk) and the army just ends up being tiny. If it comes out to fight (as opposed to castling up and relying on its guns), it's liable to get surrounded!

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
Losing the Archmage was unfortunate but he still helped Silver Helms to defeat Mournfangs, even if that unit was in a trouble as you had two powerful characters there to finish them off properly. I think it would be better for your opponent just to play defensively with them and delay your flank attack. It seemed that your opponent could cast spells without much effort but somehow it didn't help him much. Was he choosing wrong targets for spells or maybe he was just rolling poorly for regeneration?

I think that T7 was important. Not worth losing the archmage, mind, but very good. Even with the failed charge on turn 1, I had that flank cleared very quickly. Playing defensively was a good idea in principle: I think that it was made harder by my very big advantage in unit speed on the left, and further hampered by the dual-capability possessed by the leadblasters. It sounds great, having a big monster that's also a cannon, but it poses tactical problems. What if the best position for firing your gun is not the best position from which to stand and fight? There will be an art to using these units, I think. With the chariot and the knights, though, I was able to close them down fast and, once in combat, these non-steadfast beasts melt surprisingly quickly when hit hard enough.

As for the ogre magic... I must admit I wasn't that impressed. The spells were good, but their range wasn't. My cavalry's flank attack basically went unopposed because there was nothing the slaughtermaster could do to help out. I should say, though, that I didn't have to face either the 5th or 6th spell. I still don't even know what they are, in fact, so they could've made my life more difficult. The regen spell is excellent but, in this game, wasn't a game-changer. In my next turn (turn 4), I would've had 3 separate combats going on so, even if the regen spell went off and the rolls were good, that's still only helping one combat out of 3 and, in any event, with the static res generated by the flank attacks, I wasn't too worried about it.

A quick rules query, though: does the ogre Trollguts spell grant Regeneration 4+ or 5+?

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
I also liked the way you used a chariot to defeat two enemy units at the same time, something we should always try to look for.
You really make these little, seemingly not significant elements of your army, work very well.

The biggest problem with mathhammer, and the general mentality that makes people build the uber blocks, is that they forget about the little things which can swing big fights. So often, a tiny shift in balance will be the difference between outright victory and grinding for another turn. Here, an 85pt chariot doubled the combat output of a 281pt prince. That's good economy!

Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
How was your lone RBT doing this game? Is it still good to have one? What if you changed that for another chariot for example?

Not surprisingly against this army, it was 'fine'. It put down a few wounds here and there and, basically, just acted as a detachment for the archers. However, I will always take at least one. You need a shooting unit that has the range and free vision to pick on anything on the field. Enemy mages can't wander about the board, cavalry detachments get ruined- the sort of units that can hide from or outmanoeuvre our archers. It's tactically useful to keep their heads down, even where you don't kill a lot. Big monsters have an irrational fear of bolt throwers, too. Out of paranoia, you always imagine your machine missing. Your enemy imagines a single shot thudding in and inflicting a straight 3 wounds. It makes them nervous. :)

I spoke about this when I made the changes but in brief: remember the 'liberated' archer unit. I used to use one archer unit as a harassment unit- eventually they'd get sacrificed. Now, since I have the 2nd eagle, that archer unit (increased to 14) can dedicate itself more to holding good positions for shooting. My shooting phase, as a consequence, as taken less of a dent than the lost repeater might suggest.

SpellArcher wrote:
Yeah, nice comeback!

Reminds me of my last game against Ogres where my AM decided to blow himself up early doors also. I had a go but not as successfully as you did! I too decided that a double envelopment was correct, something I very rarely attempt. One flank went great but not the other, hence the loss. Of course you only get the benefit of Prince and BSB on one flank, as I discovered.

Gem of Courage is interesting...

Thanks chap. Envelopment deffo the way to go. As I said to Swordmaster, I wouldn't be surprised to see a split in ogre armies, between castling monster gunlines with leadbelchers, and combat armies with irongut hordes. For my money, though, the combat armies are going to need lots of troops to prevent themselves being dragged around, surrounded and smashed. Sprinkle in a few missile units to shoot eagles and I think irongut hordes will do better. I have no experience with ogres, but in that last game I did find the ironguts easy to avoid for as long as I needed to kill the rest of the army.

Yeeees, the gem... Well, the white lions are so often tasked with specialist 'commando' tasks that they're often likely to be far from the prince and BSB. Also, they're the most likely unit (other than my helms) who are going to be fighting fear/terror causing monsters and, lastly, the gem is a natural boon to a stubborn unit. Even if I just use it for a free reform, there won't ever be a game where this item goes unspent. Hence the sacrificed pigeon plucker pendant which, although a nice feature in a 'comprehensive' prince build, hardly ever (and by that I mean never) sees action.

Lord Anathir wrote:
We have to play sometime on UB dude, I'm free basically any day.

LA, you're on! Now then... I'm something of a technophobe... Am I going to be able to operate this thing without lessons? How the hell does it work? Also, how much to get one of those 'trial periods'? My pay day is on Friday, so that won't be an issue from then. Next week doable?

In other news...

Coming up - Battle Report - High Elves vs Lizardmen

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:38 pm 
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Seredain wrote:
Coming up - Battle Report - High Elves vs Lizardmen


Damn, I was hoping for the 4k report against Warriors of Chaos.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:39 pm 
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Oh boy. That LM army looks tough. :wink:


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Mallas wrote:
Oh boy. That LM army looks tough. :wink:

Nah, it's going to be a piece of cake. :)

I should say though, viewers, that this would actually only be the case if the cake in question was sweaty, tense, filled with the vagueries of fortune and very, very close...

Malcontent wrote:
Seredain wrote:
Coming up - Battle Report - High Elves vs Lizardmen


Damn, I was hoping for the 4k report against Warriors of Chaos.

Ah! Well, technically I haven't started drafting the Lizardman report yet, so I could do the 4Ker... Hmm. No, I'll do the Lizard report first because it's all still fresh in my head and it was quite a 'detailed' game. I haven't got another game coming up for a while, though (a week at least), so I'll have time to do the Warriors report then. It was quite an event so the memory, though hazy on some of the very fine details, is still pretty clear. To make things fair for now, here's a preview (proviso- the quality of the camerawork for this battle will not be brilliant as it was very dark in the garage we were playing in!).

The Battle of the Six Armies - Preview

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The High Elven right flank charges against Chaos.

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The Lizardman centre steams toward an almost all-infantry, magic-heavy Dark Elf line (rammed with proxxies, it should be said).

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On the left flank, all hazy hell breaks loose as Night Goblins meet the knights of Brettonia (this was messy...)

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Seredain wrote:
A quick rules query, though: does the ogre Trollguts spell grant Regeneration 4+ or 5+?


Unless stated otherwise it's 4+ Regen.

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Seredain wrote:
Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
What happened to 2nd bolt thrower?

Further to the above thinking, it went for the Banner of Sorcery and an extra eagle. Go back a few pages and you'll see a lot of brainstorming as to what might replace the 2nd repeater. At first, a lot of love went on the Level 1 Metal Mage - to keep my ranged power up against heavy targets, especially the steam tank. But then, against other match-ups, this mage wasn't all that useful, while I had little power to feed both characters. He went and, instead, I settled on the banner and the extra eagle. The 2nd eagle is a wonderful thing and the banner is an excellent safety net for the magic phase: it can always do something.

The bottom line was, I guess, that the banner will be useful against any army: since my spells help my combat units and my combat units are always useful!

I missed that, sorry :(
The good thing about RBT vs. Mage who is supposed to be a mobile magic missile battery is that RBT always shoots. On the other hand, although more risky and fickle, such mage can have better output damage. Not wanting to come back to the discussion which has already occurred I agree that if the choice is between RBT+Banner of Sorcery and Metal Mage, the first choice is more stable and good against any foe. Damn you, Seredain! I started to miss my RBT's! :lol:

Seredain wrote:
It's a great help to look at the enemy army's units and think 'what's he likely to do with that?' In this case, the ogres had so few units that my opponent was very likely to point them at the most valuable targets. Once I'd delayed the gut bus as planned, then, those bulls were likely to head for the spears (especially after the thundertusk started taking wounds) and, when they tried that, they were going to get flanked. I think ogres need to choose their toys carefully. Take too many (leadblasters, mournfang, gutbus, thundertusk) and the army just ends up being tiny. If it comes out to fight (as opposed to castling up and relying on its guns), it's liable to get surrounded!

Ogres also tend to stick closely together to have that protective bubble of better Ld and BSB re-rolls as they are very sensitive to panic tests. That also helps to envelope them. However, even having more units to place and big enough margin to deploy not only one but few more units where they are needed the most there is still good deal of thinking to be done how you want to use that advantage. Warhammer is a game where you need to be on the right spot from the start or you might be too late or too far away from that crucial combat or could not position your units well. I wonder how to make it happen (i.e. proper deployment) when you have the same number of units as your enemy (or even less as it can happen against some).

Seredain wrote:
I think that T7 was important. Not worth losing the archmage, mind, but very good. Even with the failed charge on turn 1, I had that flank cleared very quickly. Playing defensively was a good idea in principle: I think that it was made harder by my very big advantage in unit speed on the left, and further hampered by the dual-capability possessed by the leadblasters. It sounds great, having a big monster that's also a cannon, but it poses tactical problems. What if the best position for firing your gun is not the best position from which to stand and fight? There will be an art to using these units, I think. With the chariot and the knights, though, I was able to close them down fast and, once in combat, these non-steadfast beasts melt surprisingly quickly when hit hard enough.

That was indeed well played on your part and a nice example how team work between two units can achieve more than if those units were to operate separately.

As to chariot-guns of new OK I still think they are an excellent choice and if used carefully they will make a difference. It gives an Ogre player a very good tactical option of being on full attack and keep firing, position the guns so that they hit the flanks or play defensively and prepare nasty counter-charges.

Seredain wrote:
As for the ogre magic... I must admit I wasn't that impressed. The spells were good, but their range wasn't. My cavalry's flank attack basically went unopposed because there was nothing the slaughtermaster could do to help out. I should say, though, that I didn't have to face either the 5th or 6th spell. I still don't even know what they are, in fact, so they could've made my life more difficult. The regen spell is excellent but, in this game, wasn't a game-changer. In my next turn (turn 4), I would've had 3 separate combats going on so, even if the regen spell went off and the rolls were good, that's still only helping one combat out of 3 and, in any event, with the static res generated by the flank attacks, I wasn't too worried about it.

This is yet another reason Ogres need to be close to each other. The Gut Lore might not be that impressive at first look but I think it is a good one and helps to keep that low number of models even hard to kill and/or harder hitting. It is especially true for their impact hits and believe me, if you let that happen from Mournfangs - it hurts ... a lot.

Seredain wrote:
A quick rules query, though: does the ogre Trollguts spell grant Regeneration 4+ or 5+

I don't have access to the book at the moment but I believe it is 4+. I will try to check and confirm it later.

Seredain wrote:
The biggest problem with mathhammer, and the general mentality that makes people build the uber blocks, is that they forget about the little things which can swing big fights. So often, a tiny shift in balance will be the difference between outright victory and grinding for another turn. Here, an 85pt chariot doubled the combat output of a 281pt prince. That's good economy!

I definitely agree but then it is also understandable when having fragile and expensive troops one wants to make sure they survive long enough to do what you want them to do. Besides it seems that big blocks give you that peace of mind. It might not be entirely true that they are any way better and they have their own significant disadvantages. But I think people perceive them as safer bet and do not panic through the game even if they lose some models in the process. While with MSU style you might be always worried about this one or two casualties. Ultimately, it is all in the mind and if you can come over your fears you will do well, as you have already shown many times :)

Seredain wrote:
Not surprisingly against this army, it was 'fine'. It put down a few wounds here and there and, basically, just acted as a detachment for the archers. However, I will always take at least one. You need a shooting unit that has the range and free vision to pick on anything on the field. Enemy mages can't wander about the board, cavalry detachments get ruined- the sort of units that can hide from or outmanoeuvre our archers. It's tactically useful to keep their heads down, even where you don't kill a lot. Big monsters have an irrational fear of bolt throwers, too. Out of paranoia, you always imagine your machine missing. Your enemy imagines a single shot thudding in and inflicting a straight 3 wounds. It makes them nervous. :)

Yes, that is true and I can see that with my own battles where the enemy is not worried to expose flanks and twist and turn their units as they want or to move their characters alone. Damn you, Seredain, for making me miss my RBT's! (ups, I did it again :))

Seredain wrote:
I spoke about this when I made the changes but in brief: remember the 'liberated' archer unit. I used to use one archer unit as a harassment unit- eventually they'd get sacrificed. Now, since I have the 2nd eagle, that archer unit (increased to 14) can dedicate itself more to holding good positions for shooting. My shooting phase, as a consequence, as taken less of a dent than the lost repeater might suggest.

Well, I guess this is another example of a unit which has an impact on the game in more than one way and the fact it might not kill things but is there and poses a threat is worthy its points already.

Seredain wrote:
LA, you're on! Now then... I'm something of a technophobe... Am I going to be able to operate this thing without lessons? How the hell does it work? Also, how much to get one of those 'trial periods'? My pay day is on Friday, so that won't be an issue from then. Next week doable?

UB is easy to use. What is more you can play straight away in a free version (no time limits for this one). And Elves have enough default units to make an army. Might take a little longer due to typing while chatting with your opponent though and looks funny when you move from North side and still are looking at the battlefield from the South. However, I recommend it, especially when there is a chance to play a game against an opponent with whom otherwise you would have no chance to do so.

Seredain wrote:
Image


I really like these teasers pictures. :) It always gives a nice idea what the battle might be like. What I see is that DP are going to hunt skins in front of them, while SH and SM are to combine the efforts to defeat Saurus block on the left flank. Meanwhile WL and Spears can make sure that whatever from Lizard army is trying to turn to left flank will expose their side to their attacks. Will the cavalry bus clean the flank quickly and relatively unscathed though? That remains to be seen. :)

Cheers!

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Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:07 am 
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Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
I really like these teasers pictures. :) It always gives a nice idea what the battle might be like. What I see is that DP are going to hunt skins in front of them, while SH and SM are to combine the efforts to defeat Saurus block on the left flank. Meanwhile WL and Spears can make sure that whatever from Lizard army is trying to turn to left flank will expose their side to their attacks. Will the cavalry bus clean the flank quickly and relatively unscathed though? That remains to be seen. :)


Your "concept" is spot on. But you are really in for a big supprise. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:13 am 
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Hi Mallas!

I understand you are the Lizardmen player :) I hope you will add your comments to that battle report too :)

Cheers!

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Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:57 am 
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I must admit that I spend a lot of time on forums like this but your approach to the game and all the various comments that readers and you come up with, makes me want to do a similar army (with some minor changes) instead of the mathhammer armies which spread from other forums


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:17 am 
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now, that are proper sized gobbo units :)

(but they still dont like it when you shout: booo)

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Last edited by BorkBork on Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:39 am 
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Theres no rush really come on the site when you have some time and familiarize yourself with the system. Its really not that difficult to get a hang of.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:10 am 
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Just want to say thanks for putting all this down it's a really good read with great quality battle reports. Also having come to this thread late and not really wanting to read through every last thing the indexing was excellent and made it really easy catch up.

Reading this thread made be desperate to play some warhammer and I only just had 2 3000pts games 24 hours ago!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:27 am 
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Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
Hi Mallas!

I understand you are the Lizardmen player :) I hope you will add your comments to that battle report too :)

Cheers!


Hi Swordmaster

Indeed I am the LM player, but the reason I joined this site was because of this thread. It inspired me to start collecting HE as my second army.

As soon as I found out Master S was heading to London, I PMed him to join our little gaming community. So it was an absolute honor to battle it out with the Master himself. :D

I am going to wait for Mr S's report before I add my own comments, as I am sure you will all have lot's of questions about my tactics and why I did what. Some will think I was crazy, but as you will see, it worked out in the end, sort of. :lol:

Needless to say, this was one of the most exciting games of WH I had ever played and can't wait to play the Master again. After the battle we had a lengthy discussion and that lead to me making some tweaks to my list.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:35 am 
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It is already difficult to wait for the report and now you made the teaser even more interesting :) Excellent! It is really good to know we are about to have a very interesting report (soon :)).

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Are you seriously asking someone called Swordmaster of Hoeth why he has more swordmasters than white lions? Really?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:51 pm 
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Swordmaster of Hoeth wrote:
It is already difficult to wait for the report and now you made the teaser even more interesting


why do i get the picture that you are sitting almost crouched behind you pc, with shaking hands holding a sigarette and a bottle of wiskey, while the floor is littered with empty packages and you are mumbling: "battle report, battle report, i want battle report" ;)

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