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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:42 pm 
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Turn 3:
Burning alignment shouldn't do much to you. It can kill some Silver Helms, but only the characters really matter, and it won't hit them. (well, depending upon how you read the badly written distribution rules, most read it as the victim allocates).Why helms make better bodyguards for characters than dragon princes- numbers matter. I'm interested to hear your definition of allocating hits: normally we randomise successful hits (in this instance it was 1-4 hits helms, 5 hits BSB, 6 hits prince).
You definitely aren't supposed to randomize in 8th (unlike previous editions). Page 99, left column, middle has a paragraph detailing the procedure. That paragraph uses the vague term "the controlling player", which is never used anywhere else, and has no explanation. Most people seem to play it as "the player getting killed".


Stand and shoot happens even if a failed charge never gets in range. Page 17, lower left. "we assume that the chargers closed to within the weapons' maximum range before being driven off".


Last edited by dabber on Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:49 pm 
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we play it around here as the player controlling the models getting hit as the 'controlling player'. so if 4 shots hit 3 models, 1 hit on each model and the player owning the 3 models can allocate the 4th as he wants.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:22 pm 
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Lord Anathir wrote:
we play it around here as the player controlling the models getting hit as the 'controlling player'. so if 4 shots hit 3 models, 1 hit on each model and the player owning the 3 models can allocate the 4th as he wants.

This is how 40K works, right? Sensible system.

dabber wrote:
Stand and shoot happens even if a failed charge never gets in range. Page 17, lower left. "we assume that the chargers closed to within the weapons' maximum range before being driven off".

Thanks for the page reference: just read it. Rather a silly ruling if you ask me: I only moved the chariot forward 5": where on earth is the logic in assuming it moved forward 7" then moved back 2"? Seems very odd as a game mechanic. Still, GW must have had their reasons!

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:29 pm 
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dabber wrote:
Stand and shoot happens even if a failed charge never gets in range. Page 17, lower left. "we assume that the chargers closed to within the weapons' maximum range before being driven off".

Thanks for the page reference: just read it. Rather a silly ruling if you ask me: I only moved the chariot forward 5": where on earth is the logic in assuming it moved forward 7" then moved back 2"? Seems very odd as a game mechanic. Still, GW must have had their reasons!


Agreed. i hate this logic. My mate used to run Longbeard rangers with throwing axes. So if i failed to get in got hammered..Then hammered again next round then hammered as i complete the charge. Three time 20 st 5 axes makes a hugh whole where T3 troops are concerned..

Nice report and army, as always, looks good.

Oh, and with dispelling rule, makes a stronger arguement for having a back up mage carry your scroll instead of your LVL4. Was depressed not to see the second mage in this battle as would of liked to see how the metal mage got on. Been using it recently(lvl2) and 2 out of 3 games has been golden. Dwellers, we do not need dwellers, i have final transformation and dwellers..

.Eeny meeny miny moe, which unit gets blown up first...

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:16 pm 
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Seredain wrote:
ether_drake wrote:
Did your opponent REALLY have a hat of vines add on to indicate Throne was in play??

He sure did! It's in some of the photos. It was a bit of jungle terrain we found lying around and it made a useful aide memoire (I was using a coin for my archmage - much less interesting). He's actually modelled vines around the clear plastic stand the Slann sits on, too. It's a great model all round.


Hmm, it shouldn't be too hard to model a throne of vines token from some wire and brass leaves. You could just slip it around your mage. Gotta try this some time.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:36 pm 
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Nice battle report! :)

I think the stand and shoot thing makes sense. It's to discourage people just randomly making extremely long charges against archer unit in the hope they will get in i think.

Just wondering when the Silver Helms charged the Ancient Stegadon the photo to me looked like they were in the front? Is that just the photo or maybe my eyes?

I have been reading this thread for a while. Your opponents really don't seem to prioritise on your silver helm unit which is easily the biggest threat in the army. What would you do about an army with twin doom divers or stuff like that which could easily wipe out the silver helms in a turn?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:15 pm 
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How do you feel the list changes went and will you be sticking with them?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:46 am 
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I don’t believe poison attacks work on war machines, chariots included; such that all these 6s still have to be rolled to wound T4 on 5s.

Pardon my ignorance on that matter; I always thought you must maintain a minimum frontage of 5 wide for infantry/Cav and 3 wide for monstrous infantry/Cav. From I am reading here, it is possible to say deploy a unit of 5 DPs only 4 wide with the 5th model in the back rank, to maximise attacks against a chariot based model? Obviously you lose rank bonus but for small units such as DPs, the ranks are lost after return attacks anyway.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:45 am 
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You definitely can
Hence the infamous Conga line tactic.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:51 am 
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flanker wrote:
I don’t believe poison attacks work on war machines, chariots included; such that all these 6s still have to be rolled to wound T4 on 5s.


I don't see why not. The rules for war machines, chariots, and poisoned attacks do not say this.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:34 am 
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flanker wrote:
I don’t believe poison attacks work on war machines, chariots included; such that all these 6s still have to be rolled to wound T4 on 5s.

Pardon my ignorance on that matter; I always thought you must maintain a minimum frontage of 5 wide for infantry/Cav and 3 wide for monstrous infantry/Cav. From I am reading here, it is possible to say deploy a unit of 5 DPs only 4 wide with the 5th model in the back rank, to maximise attacks against a chariot based model? Obviously you lose rank bonus but for small units such as DPs, the ranks are lost after return attacks anyway.


Checking rules in BRB before posting a misleading comment would be of great value. You would be surprised if you knew how many people are reffering to "someone at forums" as rules refference.

I don't request that you know all the rules, but I do request that you check the BRB before posting another silly comment concerning rules. No hard feelings mate, but what you do is a disease which must be dealt with swiftly and without mercy! ;)

cheers,
Furion

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:38 pm 
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flanker wrote:
I don’t believe poison attacks work on war machines, chariots included; such that all these 6s still have to be rolled to wound T4 on 5s.

Pardon my ignorance on that matter; I always thought you must maintain a minimum frontage of 5 wide for infantry/Cav and 3 wide for monstrous infantry/Cav. From I am reading here, it is possible to say deploy a unit of 5 DPs only 4 wide with the 5th model in the back rank, to maximise attacks against a chariot based model? Obviously you lose rank bonus but for small units such as DPs, the ranks are lost after return attacks anyway.


In the spirit of conviviality rather than its opposite, I would refer you to the following pages in the BRB:

On poison attacks & war machines: p. 73, 108-110.

On ranks: p. 5, 52, 54, 81, 83


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:27 am 
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Hey Seredain

quick question: have you come accross people targetting your spear elves as priority #1?

And if so.....does that get you in trouble?

thx

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:41 pm 
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Chaps,

Apologies for the extended radio silence! I've been sorting out a flat for the move to London and some paperwork for the law job which starts in T minus 2 weeks: this shiz just got real! Anyway, onto more important things...

SpellArcher wrote:
How do you feel the list changes went and will you be sticking with them?

Battle Review - the Updated List

The Banner

I was very happy with the Banner of Sorcery, as I knew I would be. It didn't make the swordmasters any more of a target, partly because I deployed them back (to give the very scary scar-vet saurus block a long march) and partly because my silver helm hammer was much more terrifying to my opponent. The impact it had on the magic phase was excellent, however. Having an extra 2 dice per turn (and I did roll averagely, on the whole), was marvellous. I've never cast Dwellers Below so many times in one game! It didn't kill the Slann, alas, but it kept the temple guard at a very vulnerable size. If my opponent hadn't conceded, I'd have easily totalled that unit in one round on Turn 5.

The Eagle

The extra eagle didn't actually do much this game: he ran over some skinks on Turn 4 and that was pretty much it. It was, nonetheless, lovely fielding the extra bird. I know you've thought of a 2nd eagle as much as insurance for a mistake in using the first eagle, but for me that's not where the attraction lies. The big point is that it feels very liberating to know that, if something unexpected happens (your knights get bogged down for longer than you'd planned- allowing some scary infantry block to close with your unsupported infantry), you have the 2nd eagle ready to buy you that extra turn. This is a lovely feeling. It also (as we discussed above), allows the 2nd archer unit to survive a game and act as something other than a roadblock unit. In the same way, having the extra eagle deployment allowed me to have more choice as to where my archers deployed: I like the extra drop very much.

The new Core set-up

I like the fact that both my archer units now have what I'd call 'full functionality': the eagle takes up the extra deployment/harassment slot, both archer units are now a decent size and both have musicians for the free reform (excellent). Being able to deploy all these archers (and the repeater) together really forced the salamander and kroxigor to run forward to their doom, offering good charges for my infantry and opening up the left flank. I enjoyed being able to throw forward early pressure on both flanks: in this sense the high movement of the knights and the long range of the archers achieved similar things (though of course on a different scale!). My breaking the left flank had as much to do with the concentrated archer deployment, then, as it did my spearelf charge. As to the reduced spear-unit size, I won't be able to calculate the full consequences of this until I face an opponent with more shooting (especially template weapons). However I would note that, in theory, the more flexible 2nd archer unit will be able to offer much more support to the 30 spears than the old sacrificial unit of 11 could offer the unit of 35, perhaps reducing their vulnerability even where I've lost the 5 spears. Further, the extra power from the Banner of Sorcery should allow me to make up for having 5 fewer elves in my big block (where essential), via my boosted Life spells.

For me, the only unknown quantity re. this new setup is the psychological impact that losing 1 repeater will have on my opponent's desire to advance. An enemy's 'Itchy Feet Syndrome' was one of my favourite things when fielding the 2 repeaters. Having said that, there's nothing like getting off regular Dwellers casts to give your opponent itchy feet. In rather a direct way it synergises pretty well with a High Elf shooting phase. Hopefully the extra magical power and more concentrated archer deployments should encourage as much itchy feet as my 2nd repeater. Time will tell, I guess.

akielzather wrote:
Oh, and with dispelling rule, makes a stronger arguement for having a back up mage carry your scroll instead of your LVL4. Was depressed not to see the second mage in this battle as would of liked to see how the metal mage got on.

It goes without saying that an eagle and the Banner of Sorcery will be useful in every game while the metal mage will only really shine in certain match-ups. That's not the important bit though.

I really didn't like having the reduced harassment/ anti-harassment abilities caused by losing a repeater and taking the mage. The fight against the daemons was the first game I've played in 8th where I really didn't feel in full control of the movement phase. I love the metal mage for what he can do (and has done!), but I think obsessing about such wonderful damage-dealing can blind us to the way my list operates as a whole. Ultimately, the army works because it uses dominance in the movement phase to focus its forces quickly and kill the enemy army one block at a time.

Putting myself at risk of losing this movement-dominance because I don't have enough harassment/ anti-harassment units, as against the daemons, undermines my army's main strength for the sake of facing a steam tank every now and then (I can handle other heavily-armoured units). Having been very attracted to the pros of the 2nd mage, and since playing with it a bit, I just don't think it's worth the trade. I'd happily lose access to Searing Doom for the extra deployment, more useful 'liberated' archers and extra power dice granted by the eagle/banner combo (I'll always spend those dice even if I don't have Searing Doom). Oh and I now have 2 extra standards for Blood and Glory- a scenario which formerly constituted one of my list's great weaknesses.

Bounce wrote:
Nice battle report! :)

Thanks!

Bounce wrote:
Just wondering when the Silver Helms charged the Ancient Stegadon the photo to me looked like they were in the front? Is that just the photo or maybe my eyes?

I think it's your eyes! It was flank charge. Not a great play from my opponent. He didn't think it would matter because the stegadon was stubborn anyway, but giving me the flank like that meant that, if I hadn't killed the dinosaur in one round, there'd still be no charge on for the saurus spears against my knights to help out. This didn't matter in the end (I killed it) but, in principle, I'd want a counter-charge on in his situation if I were the lizard player (at least as an option).

Bounce wrote:
I have been reading this thread for a while. Your opponents really don't seem to prioritise on your silver helm unit which is easily the biggest threat in the army. What would you do about an army with twin doom divers or stuff like that which could easily wipe out the silver helms in a turn?

This isn't always true: that last battle was a good exception, in fact. My opponent obsessed so much about stopping my knights that he dedicated most of his army to it! Usually, though, you're right- the silver helms often make it through relatively unscathed. Partly this is because they're fast and armoured, but it's also because I tend to deploy them last. This means I can choose exactly where to put them: typically far away from the enemy's sources of pain- wizards (with scary Dwellers and other 24" spells), guns and so on. As a result, I can usually protect the helms from getting hit by too much stuff all at once.

As for the enemy's big blocks, since they're often deployed on another part of the field (I usually out-deploy an army containing big blocks), they are typically not in a position to tackle my helms in the early turns: they either have to march from one end of the field to the other or just go forward toward the nearest available target. This is the value of having lots of deployment drops and a killer unit which is also really fast!


BorkBork wrote:
Hey Seredain

quick question: have you come accross people targetting your spear elves as priority #1?

And if so.....does that get you in trouble?

thx

I've found that my spears get targeted quite a lot when fighting an army that fields template weapons- mortars and so on. A big block of spears is a tempting target for such weapons though, honestly, if my opponent isn't shooting my knights and elites, I'm happy! The spears are there to take casualties where they have to and still hold- they're pretty much my only unit that can manage it, in fact- so if they do get a bit pummelled it isn't a huge deal. Indeed, since my army is very good at killing large quantities of troops very quickly in combat, I've rarely needed all those ranks to break steadfast. If I really do, it's because I'm dedicating the spears to the main attack against an enemy unit with deep ranks. In those instances, it'll be in my interest to protect them and Life lore is a good way to do this. Putting the archmage in there for the cheap regen spell is a good way to stave off wounds if you're marching toward a gunline backed up with large infantry blocks, for example.

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Last edited by Seredain on Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:36 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:32 pm 
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What's next for Prince Seredain? I hope we are not going to loose you over this move and new job? Reading this blog is like a good book or movie you just never want it to end. =D>


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:56 pm 
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Seredain wrote:
I know you've thought of a 2nd eagle as much as insurance for a mistake in using the first eagle

No, no, it's any mistake, not just with the first eagle!

:)

For you it's to deal with your dice turning horrible in a key combat say, for me it could be because I didn't spot that unit turning up on my flank in time...

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:14 am 
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SpellArcher wrote:
Seredain wrote:
I know you've thought of a 2nd eagle as much as insurance for a mistake in using the first eagle

No, no, it's any mistake, not just with the first eagle!

Hahaha! My bad. I always wondered what you were doing with Eagle No.1. I just figured he was very careless. :)

SpellArcher wrote:
For you it's to deal with your dice turning horrible in a key combat say...

Exactly! And, against other lists, for stalling two big units in one turn, or one massive unit for two.

Oberon wrote:
@Seredain

You may have answered this before, but how do you scale down your list for a 2000 pt game? I don't commonly use White Lions, but I have used my own variation of the Cavalry list at 2500 pts. Having recently played a game at 2000 with the following list, it left me wondering what you leave in or take out.

Oberon, apologies for the delayed response- I missed your post the first time round.

For me, a 2000 point version of the list typically means taking a lord choice out and adjusting accordingly (though it's perfectly possible to have an archmage and prince if you wanted, so long as you're happy with the reduced number of troops and mind you max points allowance).

We discussed a few cut-price lists earlier in the thread (pages 2-3 and 5). Check out page 5 in respect of a 2K cavalry prince list I made up on the fly (the others are 2200 points). I chose shadow magic in this instance but, in hindsight, I'd probably pick High Magic- likely with a scroll- for the base ward save and drain magic. Here's the link: http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=33584&p=706324#p706324

Draven wrote:
What's next for Prince Seredain? I hope we are not going to loose you over this move and new job? Reading this blog is like a good book or movie you just never want it to end. =D>

Thanks D!

In truth, it's likely going to be difficult getting games and late-night blogging in for some time after I move. I'll be a trainee solicitor (don'tcha know), which means full days (working), full evenings (working- I'm going to need to hit the books big time for a while) and early nights. Hopefully we'll be looking at some weekend games in due course: if anyone knows of a good gaming club somewhere near Angel, Islington, let me know. This High Elf will need a new home!

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:12 pm 
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Seredain wrote:
Hopefully we'll be looking at some weekend games in due course

Once you're settled in, maybe you should look at a tournament.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:11 pm 
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Seredain wrote:
Hopefully we'll be looking at some weekend games in due course: if anyone knows of a good gaming club somewhere near Angel, Islington, let me know. This High Elf will need a new home!


Hi Seredain!

I follow your thread almost religiously. I PMed you about your move to London, but it seems to be sitting in my outbox and not being sent.

Anyone have any idea why?

Thanks


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:30 pm 
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PM's stay in the outbox until the recipient logs in.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:43 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
PM's stay in the outbox until the recipient logs in.


Ah. Thanks SpellArcher.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:49 pm 
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SpellArcher wrote:
Seredain wrote:
Hopefully we'll be looking at some weekend games in due course

Once you're settled in, maybe you should look at a tournament.

Deal! I make no guarentees about how long it'll take me to settle in, mind. I'm expecting the Legal World to give me a huge kick in the balls when it comes to concepts like 'spare time' and 'not being knackered'.

Mallas wrote:
Seredain wrote:
Hopefully we'll be looking at some weekend games in due course: if anyone knows of a good gaming club somewhere near Angel, Islington, let me know. This High Elf will need a new home!


Hi Seredain!

I follow your thread almost religiously. I PMed you about your move to London, but it seems to be sitting in my outbox and not being sent.

Anyone have any idea why?

Thanks

PM's up and running!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:06 pm 
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End of Term Report to Seredain's School of Generalship

Hail Seredain,

I've just had my first WFB game since 5th edition, plus my first game with High Elves. I used your latest version of the Cavalry Prince list against an Orc and Giant horde.

And it was a lucky thing I did, because the scenario we rolled was ... Blood and Glory. The extra banners added to the list were the difference between victory and defeat. I had a Fortitude of one higher than my opponent, and that was enough for me to seize victory before two giants and block of Big 'Uns closed in. (In any case, we flubbed the calculation of the Breaking Points by 1, but we were nonetheless consistent with our reduced target.)

It was a bit of a plodding game on my part as I was struggling to remember all the rules and dealing with first game adrenaline, but my opponent was a real gentleman about it. After seeing my opponent place the two giants and Big 'Uns on his right flank, I promptly refused that flank and deployed hard to my own right. One booboo was to cage my Dragon Princes behind my infantry as I was trying to avoid getting them stuck between two giants with no standards.

Image
Note: Giants are the smiley faces. Fluffy shapes are forests. Three-quarter circle in the bottom right is a hill. Top right is a river and bridge.

I had five standards, whilst he had 4 spread amongst his Savage Orcs, Black Orcs, and Big 'Uns (w/ BSB). My spells were Awakening, Shield of Thorns, Dwellers Below and Regrowth. His were Ere We Go, Brain Busta, Fist of Gork and Hand of Gork.

He got the first turn due to the Cavalry Prince List's awesome number of troop drops. All units surged forward, while one Giant moved between the house and table edge (perhaps fearing the RBT or needing to pee). The Boar Boyz (BB) moved up to the forest by the river bend. Hand of Gork surged the Savage Orcs (SO) forward toward my lines, but just short of my Sword Masters.

On my Turn One: my Silver Helms (SH) charged into the front of the BB, whilst the White Lions (WL) charged through the forests into their flank. The Sword Masters (SM) charged an inch into the front of the (SO). Spears moved up in line with them to face the impending Black Orc & Warboss charge (rather than offer a flank or rear). Left flank eagle swooped up to distract the giants. Right eagle went past the BB to threaten the SO rear. Dragon Princes (DP) and Archers #2 and Archmage were trapped behind the lines. Sigh. He dispelled my Shield of Thorns with double 6's.

The SH and WL turned ten BBs into mulch. SH overran in order to get more flankage while the WL reform 180 degrees to get stuck into the SO. The SM carved up the SO but the latter held on steadfast.

His Turn Two: a giant turned my eagle into a snack, but not before losing a wound. The other giant continued to meander behind the house. They certainly weren't advancing as fast as I'd feared.

The Black Orcs and Warboss charged into the Spears, killing seven plus the champion (EDIT: nullifying two ranks and removing steadfast), leaving them needing snake-eyes for their Break test, which of course the failed even with the Pennant. 23 spears fled off the board. Their defeat sent panic across my tightly packed lines. The RBT panicked. Worse still, the Archers #2 and Archmage panicked and fled clear off the board! No more magic! The Prince and BSB were too far away to offer any help with Ld or re-rolls. The store owner noted that I shouldn't have used my "good dice" for the Ld test. :(
(This must be the reason why you have the Gleaming Pennant, and a weakness in the refused flank that needs to be avoided, right?)

In one fell swoop the Orcs seized one standard whilst I lost another. The White Tower was definitely going to post my Archmage to Nagarythe for some toughening up!

The Black Orc pursuit brought them into base contact with the Dragon Prince's flank.

Image

My Turn Two: White Lions chew into Savage Orc flank. I finished off their Shaman with my SM Bladelord (If I wasn't going to have magic, then neither was he!). SO were whittled down to five models. I pursued with my WL (hoping to eventually carry them towards the looming giant on the horizon). SM reformed 180 to bear down on the Black Orc (BO) menace.

The Silver Helms just barely pulled off a long charge past the SO rear and into the Black Orc flanks. The proverbial cavalry was coming. My 14 Archers #1 tried to charge into the rear of the BO, but were blocked by the cowering RBT crew!

I promptly remedied this by having the cowardly RBT crew drag their machine out of the way of the Archers, also clearing the way for the Tiranoc Chariot to squeeze through the gap for a charge into the BO flank next turn.

Image

His Warlord challenged my general. At this point I wasn't sure if victory was possible with the Big 'Uns and giants bearing down on me. There was hope, and honestly I wanted to see how the Prince would fare against the Big Git. Throwing caution to the wind and embracing courage I invoked the Talisman of Loec, but scored only two hits and getting only one wound through. :(

In return I took one wound from the Warboss and one from the Talisman. Oh well, my Helms and DPs still cut down swathes of BOs, (EDIT) after which my opponent made an illegal combat reform to face away from the DPs to the SHs. (We were assured by an observer that it was legal and my objections went unheeded ("Its been FAQ'd" - Nope) and my failure to thumb thru the BRB let it through. Never mind, it was a friendly match anyway. However, I distinctly remember this being debated on this thread and my later BRB check settled it.)

His Turn Three: The central melee continued. My general perished under the Warboss assault although my units managed to score enough kills to leave us at a draw. (EDIT) The illegal combat reform in the previous turn helped boost his combat resolution. Furthermore, the reform allowed him to whittle down my SH to the point where they couldn't contribute a rank bonus. His other units advanced slowly.

By rights, if we had calculated the Break Points correctly this would have been it for me, but then, I probably would have sacrificed my BSB to the Warboss rather than my Prince. (Prince to Noble: "I say, old chap, you wouldn't mind taking on that slavering Warboss, would you? Duty and honour and all, you know? Capital!")

My Turn Three: The Sword Masters crash into the central melee. The Archers sally into the flank and the chariot runs into the rear of the BOs with a grand total of ONE impact hit. Close combat goes well, however, even after the Warboss challenges again and slays my Bladelord. The Sword Masters, Dragon Princes and Silver Helms manage to reduce the BO numbers to just five plus the Warboss. In fact, my elven steeds did better than their riders! The chariot crew weren't too successful ("Get a Lion Chariot" people later said). The BOs need snake-eyes to hold, and they fail. They break for the table edge.

Image

Bearing in mind the two giants and Big 'Uns drawing in, I decide to restrain with all my tough units and let the Archers pursue. I forgot that finishing off the Warboss at this point would have netted me the game. The Archers fail pursuit by 1". Everyone else reforms.

Orc Turn Four: His General fails to rally, the BOs sail off the board (after my spears, archers and archmage, no doubt). The game, as it was, is mine.

Image

Anyway, hopefully things will get sharper with more games, but I have to say that following your thread over the last few months leading up to my 8th edition debut has really helped me get stuck in. Its interesting that my opponent and other observers were surprised that I was fielding so much cavalry, the players at my local seem to favour the infantry block approach. Here's to hoping that I can prove them wrong in time!

Comments and criticism welcome.

Btw, sad to hear that you may not have much time to play, but congrats on the move and I hope it leads to greater and better things for you!


Last edited by ether_drake on Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:59 pm 
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Hi! New to the forums, love the thread, it made me sign up yadda yadda... :D Now then, I am almost totally new to elves, and fairly new to warhammer, having played around with skaven and found them a little slow and unwieldy with their big blocks. Now, around here we mostly play 2k games, but there are a few of us who play rediculously sized games, one of us actually has a 10k WoC army... I was wondering how you would boost this up to 5k and keep it competitive. Would you just double up on units? Increase some unit sizes? And what magic items would you use if you had this many points to play around with?
Thanks for your opinion, Sethai Ithilvarden.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:52 am 
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ether_drake wrote:
In return I took one wound from the Warboss and one from the Talisman. Oh well, my Helms and DPs still cut down swathes of BOs, but he held with ranks, partly due to him making an illegal combat reform. (We were assured by an observer that it was legal and my objections went unheeded ("Its been FAQ'd" - Nope) and my failure to thumb thru the BRB let it through. Never mind, it was a friendly match anyway. However, I distinctly remember this being debated on this thread and my later BRB check settled it.)


This part is a little vague, what exactly was illegal about the reform, and what about t it bennifited your opponent?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:28 am 
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The Black Orcs were facing the Dragon Princes to the front. The Silver Helms were engaged in the flank of the Black Orcs and they had two full ranks, thus disrupting the BO formation.

Reforming to face my SH allowed supporting attacks to directed against them, effectively doubling their attacks (hitting with great weapons to negate my armour) whilst regaining their +3 bonus from ranks to CR (as the Dragon Princes were now less than one full rank).

A unit engaged in more than one front in close combat cannot make a combat reform (p. 55, BRB). This ruling makes intuitive sense since the confusion ensued by assault from multiple assaults prevents orderly reform.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:10 am 
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nice report drake, well played.

However, i think that Orc list is probably the worst possible list to field against the cavalry prince elf list.
He is basically allready commiting him self with drop 1, which means you are automatically in trouble vs a mobile enemy.
And orcs (even elite orcs) just dont cut it with a straight march across the field. Also Boar Boyz, although i love them, are not good enough this unsuported. O&G has some of the best and cheapest support units in the game, leaving them at home is just asking for trouble.

@Seredain,

thx for the explanation. Yeah, it makes sense that it should not matter too much.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:25 am 
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BorkBork wrote:
nice report drake, well played.

However, i think that Orc list is probably the worst possible list to field against the cavalry prince elf list.
He is basically allready commiting him self with drop 1, which means you are automatically in trouble vs a mobile enemy.
And orcs (even elite orcs) just dont cut it with a straight march across the field. Also Boar Boyz, although i love them, are not good enough this unsuported. O&G has some of the best and cheapest support units in the game, leaving them at home is just asking for trouble.

Thanks. To be fair neither of us knew what we would be facing. I had the benefit of a well-tested all-comers list. I was surprised at how quickly the Boar Boyz vaporised under the Silver Helm assault - the White Lions didn't even get the chance to strike!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:28 am 
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ether_drake wrote:
I was surprised at how quickly the Boar Boyz vaporised under the Silver Helm assault - the White Lions didn't even get the chance to strike!


yeah, Boar Boyz just aint real heavy cavalry. They can dish out quite a lot, but they can't really take it. The Elf reroll to hit is very painfull for them, especially at STR 5.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:25 pm 
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I don't understand "but he held with ranks, partly due to him making an illegal combat reform" means, it was the first round of combat, so he couldn't have made the combat reform before that break test? Disruption also doesn't remove steadfast by the way (You just count ranks, and that's that), so unless he reformed to go a lot deeper the next turn, then it doesn't matter which unit was in his flank. The reform was illegal though, so that's your first big lesson: ignore the idiots in the peanut gallery who so often give duff advice.

Also I guess it was really a loss if you should have broken turn 3. Very nice of your opponent to make a mistake giving you the game ;)


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