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 Post subject: Moranions wayshard
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:31 pm 
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I looked a few deep and did not find any topics on it. If you know any articles or topics, then please post below. If you have experience with it let me know. I would like to get a review of it..

Thanks all


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 Post subject: Re: Moranions wayshard
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:25 am 
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I am not a pro

I think the wayshard is generally considered weak in competitive because it's prohibitive cost makes it hard to build an effective character. Let's look at the options for it.

Noble: With a 50p magic item and no mount allowance, there is no way to kit this character for melee (4+ armor save max) or ranged (can't take magic bows). He's basically there to give the unit a small combat buff, and otherwise he's 125p to give 30 archers or spears the ambusher rule.
Mage: Not good if the L2 is your primary caster because then you may be magic/dispel-less for several turns. Usable if this is a secondary caster, but you give up the arcane item slot so you can't take a dispel scroll if your main mage uses the book.
Prince: This character can at least take a good bow or armor. Still, with no mount and only 50p for magic items, you're giving up on most of the viable prince builds out there. Even if you can build the prince half-well, why would you want him in a unit of 30 spears/bows across the board?
Archmage: A damned expensive and useful unit to be keeping off the board for the first few turns. Only really works if it's a secondary caster, and can't take book.
LoreMaster: Cool spells for behind enemy lines, and can be kitted for combat, but can't take book (important for loremaster) and requires another spellcaster in your army.
Sea Helm: Even worse than noble, fewer equipment options
Handmaiden: Can't put her with the unit she buffs, she's basically a very expensive S4 shot.
Anointed: In my opinion, a damned expensive buff to waste on 30 archers/spears. Ambushers want offense, not defense. Probably the most survivable character you can put in the unit though.

It's too bad, because ambushers are very fun. I think the most viable is a L2 mage and 30 archers. I did a very fluffy list that used a sea helm with 30 seagaurd. If anyone complains that I should only be able to take spears/archers, I'll just agree and offer to switch the unit out for a frost phoenix. But yeah, try it out, kill some war machines and get some rear charges.

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 Post subject: Re: Moranions wayshard
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:47 am 
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Hey all,

Well, after digging and thinking and doing some more thinking about the subject. This is what I have drawn up so far on the subject vs past exp with this type of attack.

Played warhammer and used a flanking unit of melta ig vets with harker to get at something I wanted to take out. This unit was a very solid unit in my army and worked wonders vs my opts.

30x spearmen, FC, Banner of swiftness for movement. 318

Noble, Dragon Armour, GW, Shield, Moranions Waystone136

Now the plan would be based off exp needing something to draw them in. In the past I found placement to be a key item for using Harker. Adding in a unit for the bait further brings this flanking unit into play.

So lets add

Noble, GW, Shield, Lion Cloak, Shadow armour, 25 points to play with on magic.

More less one to two units of shadow warriors for placement and bait.

This allows the shadow noble to join up with the spear unit to add the xtra weight. At this point I am debating about adding in a prince instead for the xtra magic gear. Then again a noble with point allowance thus far seems fitting. In all you will be punching a location with

30 spears, two nobles. Once you account for magic, your looking at a better out flanking unit.

Would anybody care to review this information, add to it?


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 Post subject: Re: Moranions wayshard
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:00 am 
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Shield doesn't help the holder of the wayshard. It doesn't work against shooting because his unit takes the hits, and it doesn't work in melee because he has a greatweapon.

Otherwise, doing a noble with spears and a character with shadow armor could be a fun way to do a fluffy avoidance type list. Alith Anar the shadow king is another guy you can consider for the job. In any case, I wouldn't bring it to a competitive tournament :P. These are expensive units that don't pack much of a punch.

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 Post subject: Re: Moranions wayshard
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:18 pm 
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AFAIK no one on Ulthuan has used the shard extensively.

IMHO it is too random and comes at too high a price on a crappy unit to be useful competitively - why you probably haven't seen much evidence of it here.


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 Post subject: Re: Moranions wayshard
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:24 pm 
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Vindicated Strategist
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John Rainbow wrote:
AFAIK no one on Ulthuan has used the shard extensively.

IMHO it is too random and comes at too high a price on a crappy unit to be useful competitively - why you probably haven't seen much evidence of it here.


+1. Combination of random, matchup-dependent, expensive and poor unit synergy (honestly, not many armies care that much about X Spears) means it is used little.

One thing I find is that in certain matchups keeping your Core alive can be an issue. Moranion's could be a way to mitigate this somewhat, but I think it's too marginal and situational to be worth it.

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 Post subject: Re: Moranions wayshard
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:38 am 
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Hmm it actually says that you can decide just before deployment whether the dude with the wayshard give his ambusher ability to a friendly unit or not. That is pretty good, I would say.
First of all I never bring anything else from our core that is on foot other then archers. They fight (almost) as good as spears and that 5+ AS usually means nothing these days with so many things have armour piercing. So for me, I will go for 20-30 archers, which is in most of my lists anyways.
So give a cheap noble this item and you have the opportunity to ambush 30 archers. If you meet some armies, where it just doesn't make sense, you just choose not to. However, if you are playing against wood elves or dark elves for that matter, this could be very interesting. No wood elf player wants 30 bowshots with no cover. And as Curu also points out, this could be a way to keep them alive for longer.


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 Post subject: Re: Moranions wayshard
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:05 pm 
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Stormie played a tournament with the Wayshard, back in 2013. He even made a report of it:
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=48961

Have a look at it, it's probably the only online experience you'll find about it! :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Moranions wayshard
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:42 pm 
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Gave it a go last night @2500

Lvl2 (beasts) 30 spears.

Versus empire (franz, block of halberds, Demi, 2 cannon, cav bus)

The threat of wildformed spears in the rear (or transformation) was interesting. Overall it seemed a bit expensive for what it does but it does make the spears really quick...turn 3 charges to the rear with ranks and banner pretty much made my opponent hold back a unit and some fast cav just to limit the havoc they could create.

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 Post subject: Re: Moranions wayshard
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:46 pm 
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I used it with LM in an archer bunker. The idea was even if I get delayed coming on board I'd still have range to impact and with LM buffs archers would do as good a job as spears.

I had a few interesting games but against fast rush armies it proved to be lacklustre. I still think there is potential but may need a higher point games circa 3000pts.

Or even better change the wording instead of 30 spears/archers say unit up to 300pts. :evil:


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 Post subject: Re: Moranions wayshard
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:07 am 
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I have used it with 21,archers and a lv2 shadow mage... And found it most useful... Shadow helps to sow problems in a opponents back Lin and the sig can bring in a main caster or character if needed...

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 Post subject: Re: Moranions wayshard
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:55 pm 
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Interesting in that my primary caster was shadow. My concern over archers is that you are paying a premium for bows but are losing at least 1/6th of that value perhaps more (if you don't show up on time and -1 for moving when you do show. Minor concerns true but considering the shards price worth considering.

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 Post subject: Re: Moranions wayshard
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:07 pm 
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hewhorocks wrote:
Gave it a go last night @2500
Lvl2 (beasts) 30 spears.


For the same reason you use the wayshard here, I like to put a L2 beasts in with shadow warriors. They hit just as hard as spears, benefit from shooting, and give similar maneuverability. The 50 point wayshard costs as much as upgrading 10 spears to shadow warriors, but with the shadow warriors you get the shooting, the benefit of not having to wait to get your beast magic, and the opportunity for a scroll caddy. I also prefer to engage with shadow warriors over spears because they can pick their battles more easily.

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 Post subject: Re: Moranions wayshard
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:21 pm 
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viewtopic.php?f=51&t=55098

Late post, but I did take it to a big tournament. Here is the write up.


I was not impressed with it on spears. Still think it would be interesting to try with archers. As mentioned before, the biggest problem is the character cost.


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 Post subject: Re: Moranions wayshard
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:42 am 
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I like the Anointed here because he makes the Spears pretty functional. With Gleaming Pennant they have Steadfast Ld9 with a re-roll if necessary. No-one is afraid of Spears to the face but a ranked unit behind them can be an issue for some armies. Anointed also unlikely to die, which could be a problem for hero-level characters. Plus he's Ld9 so you don't have to send your General off into the wilderness.

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 Post subject: Re: Moranions wayshard
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:35 am 
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I think Anointed brings alot of synergy to the Spears with Wayshard.
- 6++
- iTP - not sure if gleaming pennant is needed maybe war banner?
- MR(2)
- Additional "punch"
- Ld 9 for break test

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 Post subject: Re: Moranions wayshard
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:03 pm 
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pk-ng wrote:
I think Anointed brings alot of synergy to the Spears with Wayshard.
- 6++
- iTP - not sure if gleaming pennant is needed maybe war banner?
- MR(2)
- Additional "punch"
- Ld 9 for break test


You guys are making a lot of sense. Since I run a Stardragon list, I've not used an Anointed before. With the 50% lords limit now, he could due useful things with spears. It would have to be a big game though for him and the Dragon.


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 Post subject: Re: Moranions wayshard
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:41 pm 
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pk-ng wrote:
not sure if gleaming pennant is needed maybe war banner?

I have a horror of taking key Break tests without a re-roll!

I'd forgotten about ITP though. Very useful and yes, maybe enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Moranions wayshard
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:02 am 
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Actually after testing out a list I think the Wayshard has some possibility. Maybe with either Shadow or Beast but again range will be an issue especially if you're coming from the opposite side of the board. 4 dice boosted mindrazor is a bit of an issue (I was playing under ETC settings) so maybe Book of Hoeth is needed for the reliability.

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