Enemy of the month: Dwarfs

All discussions related to Warhammer Fantasy Battles from 1st to 8th edition go here, including army construction, comp creation, campaign and scenarios design, etc...
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
Prince of Spires
Auctor Aeternitatum
Posts: 8249
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:07 pm
Location: The city of Spires

Enemy of the month: Dwarfs

#1 Post by Prince of Spires »

The enemy of February is Dwarves

They may have gotten a serious beating in the End Times, but they are still a formidable opponent. What are their strong units? What are good combinations and items? What are strong lists? And, most important of all, how do we beat them.

A whole month to discuss and find out.

In your post, aside from information about Dwarfs, please also specify what kind of environment you play in. What comp do you play? What does your local meta look like? Do you play in tournament settings or just in your local shop? And how tough are the lists you regularly run into?
For Nagarythe: Come to the dark side.
PS: Bring cookies!

Check out my plog
Painting progress, done/in progress/in box: 167/33/91

Check my writing blog for stories on the Prince of Spires and other pieces of fiction.
User avatar
HERO
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:52 am

Re: Enemy of the month: Dwarfs

#2 Post by HERO »

I used to play Dwarfs, and they can take a bunch of cool stuff.

Dwarfs like to shoot, a lot, and have a lot of counter-magic via multiple scrolls; including the type that makes you forget your spell on a 4+. These are 2x RoSpellbreaking. Ro=Rune of..

Typical competitive Dwarf lists these days look like 2x Runesmiths with forget scrolls and a BSB Thane. They're all wearing the finest armors, and will have good armor saves. While typically you don't see Lords, a gearerd up Lord on Shieldbearers can sport a 1+ AS, 4+ Ward, and still hit your T5+ units with S8 D3 wound attacks. They can be pretty killy vs. certain things for sure.

The entire Dwarf army has a chance to hate your guts on a lucky roll at the start of the game, and they are a tough nut to crack as a army because everyone is wearing heavy armor and T4.

Dwarf Warmachines can be made magical and more accurate with a lot of runes. Dwarfs like to shoot, so typically you'l see lists with 3+ warmachines, cannons with RoForging to make them more accurate via re-rolls on artillery die, RoBurning for flaming attacks, and Organ Guns with RoAccuracy for +1 BS. Dwarf Grudgethrowers (stone throwers) can be made stronger via RoPenetration (S4, S10 under the hole), and more accurate with the RoAccuracy as well.

Dwarfs are also one of the few armies that can take great weapons in core. WS4 all over the place and Warriors with GW hit surprisingly hard with their natural T4, above average WS and S5 for damage. Quallerrers can also carry GW, so if you want a unit that can shoot S4 bolts and also swing back and break your face, these are it.

Their central army might not like to move and will stand and shoot for days with WM and Quallerers, but they have flying gyrocopters and bombers to obstruct your movement and chaff up your units. They're tough (T5 4+ AS), come with sprays and bombs and are more pricey than typical chaff since these guys can actually do something.

Anvil units are Ironbreakers and their 3+ AS and Gromil Shieldwall (5+ Parry), Hammerers are WS5 2A S6 Stubborn, and Fire Drakes have powerful S5 guns.

Overall, you want to close the gap quickly, and get in combat with your superior combat units while casting magic at units of high value. Shadow magic is my recommendation, but expect your bigger combat monsters to die to Dwarf shooting. If possible, use hills and hop around battlefield with them, and get behind buildings if possible. Use your speed to set up flanks since Dwarfs normally cower in one location and use their gyros to disrupt your movement. This gives them more chances to shoot, which you want to neutralize ASAP. For this reason, armored cavdarts like Silver Helms are good because they can move up the field quickly and take care of unprotected warmachines. Pit of Shades, Purple Sun, or anything that forces I-tests will make Dwarf players very unlucky. Just beware that they typically have multiple forget scrolls, so manage your power dice wisely.
[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=45884][img]http://i.imgur.com/EvidzNv.jpg[/img][/url]
[i]Click the banner to see my 8th Ed. High Elves Tactica![/i]
[url=http://lkhero.blogspot.com/][size=150]HERO's Gaming Blog[/size][/url]
Senor
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 10:21 pm
Location: Holland

Re: Enemy of the month: Dwarfs

#3 Post by Senor »

Hi Hero, or any other dwarf / rule expert. Just to be sure on this...

A lonely gyrocopter cannot march and steamshoot, but when there are 2 or more gyrocopters in 1 unit, they can march and steamshoot?

Is this correct? I heard this of a local dwarf player.
Sinsigel
Posts: 357
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:34 am

Re: Enemy of the month: Dwarfs

#4 Post by Sinsigel »

Senor wrote:Hi Hero, or any other dwarf / rule expert. Just to be sure on this...

A lonely gyrocopter cannot march and steamshoot, but when there are 2 or more gyrocopters in 1 unit, they can march and steamshoot?

Is this correct? I heard this of a local dwarf player.
Gyrocopters' unit size is 1 model. So multiple of them cannot form a single unit.
Therefore, shooting steam gun after marching is impossible.

Regarding the main topic, if HE player wishes to give dwarfs hard time he/she should go for deathstars.
Dwarfs don't have 6th spells ignoring saves, nor do they have enough mobility to avoid deathstars.

Grab some 30~40 white lions, put Alarielle and multiple combat characters inside.
Phoenix Guard are even better due to innate ward save and re-rolling to hit.

Dwarfs may hit hard, but they won't hit hard enough when they are against deathstars striking at much higher I or sporting ASF. After a round or two, that large hammerer/longbeard unit will be reduced to nothing.
So all you need to do, is to make sure you position redirectors so that no other dwarf unit comes for support.

Lastly, make sure you're not up against anyone using lore of life(esp. Empire lists with life), avoidance lists from DE & WE, and tzeentch daemons list with Kairos.
MeuhMeuh
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:22 pm

Re: Enemy of the month: Dwarfs

#5 Post by MeuhMeuh »

As mainly a dwarf player I don't know if it's betraying my kin to post here, but I'll do it to help you guys as I've come to like this forum very much, even tho my heart belong to the bugman's brewery !

Hero said a lot of truth about us ;

-Heroes & Lord : Things have already been said. A pair of spellbreaking runesmith is almost mandatory in a competitive environment, as the magic phase is for us something we're bound to loose. We cannot cast any spells (the anvil being a huge dump entry in our book), and have to face it. Note that we have access to a 65pts banner that gives us a +2 to dispell wich allows us to compete with a total of +4, going with the natural +2 to dispell of dwarves. This rune is a master rune and therefore will not appear often on the bsb as this would leave it unprotected, if it ever happen to be in the army it would be in the hammerers who have 75pts banner allowance. The Runesmith also gives AP an RM(1) to his unit, even if he's send in the backrank after refusing a challenge
The BsB is more than likely to have the Master Rune of Grungni on his banner, giving the bearer a 4++ ward and providing a 5++ against shooting ans magic missiles (not direct damage spells) to units in a 6" bubble around him.
Lords are pretty uncommon in 2500 points, as they cost 300 points (two warmachines !) and with M3, it's hard to justify their points. Just note that if they happen to be here, the common state is T5 W5 1+/4++, the rest of the kit depends, sometimes +1T/+1W aswell, 1 to hit.. They're near unkillable, and can be tooled to deal with elvish characters, but more than often the choice goes to rune of might (double S against T5+) and ASF.
Master engi will come along Organ guns, because they make them so much more reliable (+1BS, reroll one artillery dice) and provide a nice entranchment for one of the warmachine, counting it as hard cover and getting +1to hit when charged. A frostpheonyx or a cowboy characater (even a Demon prince) can bounce off an entranched warmachine and be in danger of counter charges because of this -1 to hit, so be carefull. This happenned to me a lot and allowed me to charge those machine hunters.

Generalities about troops :
Any dwarf has a very good stateline. WS4, T4, LD9, every dwarf in the army save from warmachine crew wear atleast a heavy armor, has the special rule shieldwall (5++ parry when charged) and resolute (+1S when they charge). A unit of quarrelers/thunderers with shield is not squishy when charged in front. You'll face WS4 T4 4+/5++ wich is going to save a lot of casualties. They only have BS3 and cannot move and shoot, so keep that in mind.
Hammerers is the shock unit of the book, with S4, great weapons and two attack per model, natural stubborn and access to 75 points of banner (a lot of gunline type armies run the master rune of Groth one eye on them, giving every dwarf unit in 12" stubborn. This is something you HAVE to care about, as those 10 quarrelers with shield will be stubborn, and therefore can speed bump almost anything the turn they are charged, and still hold after loosing 9 of their own). With a runesmith, this guys deliver S7 AP attacks on a charge, so don't ever let them charge your bus, ever.

Warmachines :
Everyone knows dwarvish warmachines are lethal, they are the signature of this army, and the best of warhammer. Every warmachines has access to runes, allowing rerolls on the dices (forging reroll any missfire, even the ones for canon's bounce), accuracy gives +1 to hit and reroll scatter dice of grudge throwers (catapult). Penetrating gives +1S to the machine (usefull mostly for the Grudge thrower, to get to S4(10)).
They are all worth around 150VP, and will be defended. Typicall build is 1-2 canons + 1-2 GT (3 of those, mixed depending of the player's taste) + 1-2 Organ Gun. The Organ gun is for good reason the most devastating machine in the book, especially against elves : 30" range, 2 artillery dice shots (rerolling 1 dice with master engineer, basically rerolling a missfire or a 2), and BS5 with accuracy and ME. On average, this is 12 BS5 shots with S5 AP coming at you.
But, High elves have probably the best tool to deal with all of this : the almighty banner of the world dragon. Any warmachines with runes deals magic attacks, and will be save on a 2+ with this banner.

Gyrocopters :
Those flying machines are by far the best entry of the book and will be in 99% of the dwarf lists. 80 points (access to vanguard for +20points), T5 W3 4+ AS. Have the ability to drop a bomb once per game dealing artillery dice S3 AP hits on a unit they flew over, and having a breath weapon S3 AP that can shoot every turn as long as the copter didn't march. They're the elvish bane and must be dealt with as soon as possble. One or two getting behind your lines can either destroy your warmachines (2A S4 in close combat), or simply steam up all the elvish infantry with a real ease. Also, they're the one and only reliable redirector of the dwarf book, and will be used as such. Note that in ETC rules, they can stand and shoot, for that matters.

Unusual entries :
My two personnal favorite units : Slayer and Irondrakes.
Slayers have a basic dwarf stateline, but a ton of cool rules that make them awesome.
-They're not affected by S modifiers (meaning S curses or what not).
-They will always wound on 4+ at worst.
-They are Unbreakable
-They can choose between ad weapon or Great weapon like black orcs.
-They have the special "Deathblow" rule that allows any slayer who dies from a close combat attack or a stomp to immediately deal an attack to any model in base contact. Now this rule is subject to a lot of discussions as the dwarf book didn't get any sort of errata and faq from games workshop. Common usage is : only 1 attack per dead slayer, can target any model in contact of the unit. Keeps any buff the unit might have (hatred, +1S because of charge, +2S because of GW...). This rule is what make them really dangereous in close combat, especially for elves, because elivsh ASF will work against them.
This unit doesn't have access to any armor and is very vulnerable to magic and shooting. It's best use is when it's vanguarding and closing fast on the ennemy. They can deal with anything wich is not heavily armored, should it be monsters like a K'dai or elite infantry. Fear them.
Their main problem is that they are a special choice, and compete with the other entries that are mandatory or at least very good in the dwarf book (canons, Grudge thrower, hammerers & Ironbreakers, Gyrocopters), and players will choose hammerers over them most of the time, for good reasons ;)

Irondrakes are a totally new entry, and (to me) very refreshing unit. With a longbeard statelie (WS5 / S4 / T4 ), 4+/6++ armor save, they're already a decent fighty unit. But they're equipped with shooting weapon : 18" range, S5 AP, quick to fire, flaming. In large unit (18+) they can be devastating and one shot any fast unit that would go behind the dwarvish line. Remember that they have a short range and only BS3, so they won't put big holes in infantry units. Their main goal is to deal with fast/flying units, even monsters sometimes. The unit champion have access to trollpedo (S8 AP, 24", D3 wounds, slow to fire) or cinderblast bombs, wich work like a catapult shot at 8" range with small tempalte, but allows the unit to stand and shoot with short range at all time. Combined with the rune of slowness (roll 2D6 when charged, lower the charge distance by the higher of those two dice) they can be deadly to charge.

There is still a lot to say about dwarves, but as a starter this will do :)

Cheers,

Meuh
sparkytrypod
Posts: 494
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:37 am
Location: ireland

Re: Enemy of the month: Dwarfs

#6 Post by sparkytrypod »

hey rod,

just a quick idea (totally not dwarf related so you can remove it if you wish!)

can we get a sticky or a sub-forum going to store all the updated enemy of the months? so they would all be in one place for users to flick through. if there is one, just ignore this but I didn't spot it!
death is lighter than a feather, duty heavier than a mountain

do an rpg personality test, im from Ireland and I get...

[CENTER][url=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/24.jpg[/img][/url][/CENTER
JoeElf
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:04 am

Re: Enemy of the month: Dwarfs

#7 Post by JoeElf »

Can anyone explain to me the "strollaz" list and maybe some tactics against it? Thanks
Squigkikka
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:24 pm

Re: Enemy of the month: Dwarfs

#8 Post by Squigkikka »

I'm not sure if you're a traitor if nobody reads it, Meuh! It's a pity too because that's some damn well written stuff.
User avatar
RE.Lee
Posts: 2618
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:22 pm
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Re: Enemy of the month: Dwarfs

#9 Post by RE.Lee »

Why is noone reading it? Theres decent traffic here, I think.

Strollaz lists take a big unit of Hammerers (usually) and put it in your face via Vanguard. This can be a major problem for many armies, gunlines in particular. With appropriate support by Gyrocopters and perhaps even stuff like Miners or Rangers it can be very unnerving for the opponent, and certainly a fun way to play Dwarves!

Interesting to see MeuhMeuh recommending Slayers. For all their coolness, you don't see them very often.
cheers, Lee

Elven Field Surgeon, Department of Intensive Care, Resuscitation and Necromancy
JoeElf
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:04 am

Re: Enemy of the month: Dwarfs

#10 Post by JoeElf »

Thank you RE.lee,

Is there any real way to way to protect against strollaz? My thoughts are if the Dwarf player does do this then it just brings them closer to you which is what you want anyway right? Close the line and get into the H2H quickly?
User avatar
RE.Lee
Posts: 2618
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:22 pm
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Re: Enemy of the month: Dwarfs

#11 Post by RE.Lee »

Depends on what you play, really. If you have Teclis and Allarielle in an archer bunker and were hoping to stay away from combat than its tough. If you have a fighty army than you're perhaps better of - but can you really take on a hammerer horde with bells and whistles? Dwarves can be really good in the grind.
cheers, Lee

Elven Field Surgeon, Department of Intensive Care, Resuscitation and Necromancy
JoeElf
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:04 am

Re: Enemy of the month: Dwarfs

#12 Post by JoeElf »

My list for this weekend will have a SH Bus with all the trimmings. Prince, Noble BSB BoTWD, Lvl 4 on death, Lvl 2 on undecided. Two units of 20 PG, 2 units of Reavers, 3 Bolt Throwers.

Not a lot of drops but I like the survivability of the three main blocks. My main plan is to snipe out characters or purple sun down his lines and use the protection of BoTWD.
Squigkikka
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:24 pm

Re: Enemy of the month: Dwarfs

#13 Post by Squigkikka »

RE.Lee: I think when both Hero and Meuh goes through so much trouble to write in-depth stuff, a posted "Thanks" means a ton. A bunch of views means little.

As for stopping Strollasz, I'm surprised you haven't mentioned the most elegant solution! No need for huge measures.

5 Shadow Warriors scouting. The opponent will likely have Ranger Scouts to help safeguard his own vanguard, but 1 unit can't cover the advance completely. Place the 5 Shadow Warriors in such a way that the Hammerers (and Longbeards) cannot vanguard forward without coming within 12.

Voilá! Dwarf Strollasz stopped!
User avatar
Razzy Mac
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:27 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Enemy of the month: Dwarfs

#14 Post by Razzy Mac »

Some interesting thoughts here guys, cheers for the input.

I must say, from the outside looking in as a high elf player, an army with such a multitude of options and playstyles to choose from, I really think GW needs to do something with the dwarves. There seems to be literally two builds to choose from, and the strollaz list doesn't strike me as overly competitive against a lot of foes. At least back in the day they had the anvil to mix things up a bit (although I've heard it was pretty broken for a couple of editions) but now that has apparently been nerfed into the ground.

Obviously I haven't got any answers, but surely there's a way to give them a few more options of how to play the game, to the benefit of dwarf players AND their regular opponents. In any case that's slightly off topic, thanks for the info!
RM's High Elf Plog
High Elves: 9 Painted, 112 Remaining
w_fergus
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:01 pm

Re: Enemy of the month: Dwarfs

#15 Post by w_fergus »

Squigkikka wrote:RE.Lee: I think when both Hero and Meuh goes through so much trouble to write in-depth stuff, a posted "Thanks" means a ton. A bunch of views means little.

As for stopping Strollasz, I'm surprised you haven't mentioned the most elegant solution! No need for huge measures.

5 Shadow Warriors scouting. The opponent will likely have Ranger Scouts to help safeguard his own vanguard, but 1 unit can't cover the advance completely. Place the 5 Shadow Warriors in such a way that the Hammerers (and Longbeards) cannot vanguard forward without coming within 12.

Voilá! Dwarf Strollasz stopped!
I agree with squigkikka in regards to thanking the lads for the in-depth analysis. It has been extremely good reading thus far
MeuhMeuh
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:22 pm

Re: Enemy of the month: Dwarfs

#16 Post by MeuhMeuh »

Thanks guys, that means a lot :P

Strollaz has already been answered. Strollaz rune is a banner rune that cost 35 points and allows the unit to vanguard. Strollaz lists are agressive dwarven lists that will most likely have only vanguarding/ambushing/scoots units. One guy on bugman's plays almost only this type of list (40+ Longbeards, 30+ miners, 30+ rangers) with somewhat decent success.

Keep in mind that the dwarf book is only one year old and players are still toying with it to find out new stuff. You've probably heard about the airforce lists, using the maximum allowed flyers (5-6 gyrocopters, 1-2 Gyrobomber). This time of list is really fun to play and have the potential to be actually very competitive when played well. Imagine those 6-7 flying machines, with breath weapons, each T5 W3 4+ AS, while the dwarf player still has his canons, catapults and organ gun to fire. Pretty scary uh?

In my opinin, the dwarf book provides a lot of options when it comes to playstyles. They're not even in term of strenght and the gunline will probably remain the safer way to go, but there is some possibility. I'm personnally working on an hybrid list, mixing some decent shooting power with vanguarding troops, where vanguard is a possibility and not a mandatory thing, depending on the match up.

Also, Slayers are awesome.

Meuh :)
User avatar
Shadeseraph
Posts: 721
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:10 pm

Re: Enemy of the month: Dwarfs

#17 Post by Shadeseraph »

I tend to read all these and not comment because I really have nothing to add: I play mostly against VC, DoC and WoC (and by mostly I mean 9/10 of my battles are against those). I tend to be the kind of person who thinks that if you don't have anything to add don't clutter the thread.

But sure as hell I'm thankful for these. Mostly because I've tried to run dwarfs a couple time without any decent degree of success, so this helps a bit too.
[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=48662]My standard gaming lists - 2500 pts.[/url]
pk-ng
Posts: 2062
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:39 pm
Location: Cathy

Re: Enemy of the month: Dwarfs

#18 Post by pk-ng »

JoeElf wrote:Thank you RE.lee,

Is there any real way to way to protect against strollaz? My thoughts are if the Dwarf player does do this then it just brings them closer to you which is what you want anyway right? Close the line and get into the H2H quickly?
scouts.
Strollaz list suffer the most because the scout roll can ruin them.
If not make sure you deploy everything 1" from the board edge (but obviously ur reavers at the 12" line). shoot and move. You want to line up your units depending on what they have.
Using you list your PGs can go into any unit (preferable the Hammers) and will win combat. Your SH should be aiming for a none hammer unit.
ETC WHFB Team Singapore
2014 - Chaos Dwarfs & Most Favoured Enemy
2015 - High Elves & Top HE

T9A
Highborn Elves - Army Book Committee
Balancing Board
Highborn Elves - ex-Army Support
Viale
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:28 am

Re: Enemy of the month: Dwarfs

#19 Post by Viale »

My main opponent plays dwarfs and I can only echo everything MeuhMeuh has said. It is really good in capturing what is needed to know about them.

A few of my own observations:

Gyrocopters wreck elven faces. do not let those steamcannons get anywhere near your knights...or anything else Elven for that matter.

5 shadow warriors vs a dwarf gunnery crew is not necessarily a sure elven win. Toughness 4 really makes a difference. The same applies to a lone eagle.

Slayers hurt a lot of our stuff. They are not above and beyond killing our phoenixes, even a small unit you think your phoenix will squash due to attacks+thunder stomp can put a few wounds on it. Bad play on my part perhaps, but maybe you don't need to learn that lesson the hard way now.

Irondrakes show how BS shooting is done. They eat high armour/highish toughness targets for breakfast. Even though they only have 18" range, their defacto range is 21" due to their movement. so they are not as shortranged as people might think(give them vanguard banner for extra hilarity) And they run around in the dwarven equivalent to our dragon armour, down to the 6++

Regarding vanguard. They can potentially vanguard three of their toughest units, besides half their gyrocopters. Dwarfs suddenly got very fast.

Miners are still a thing. They might not be able to charge the turn they arrive, but 15-20 angry dwarfs with two-handed weapons on your backline is still a thing.

Besides this, you got the famous warmachines and magic-busting capabilities.

I find this iteration of the dwarves much more unpredictable than their previous incarnation, where it pretty much boiled down to Gunline or Miners+Anvil. they can put vanguard almost everywhere and be in combat in turn 2, or they might put down the gunline in one of their corners, or they might harass you with gyrocopters, scouts and miners as you advance towards their blocks of hammerers and longbeards while being bombarded by their warmachines.
Post Reply