Is 5 enough? Sisters and Shadow warriors

[Sackree]

I have finally got my hands on a box of sisters/shadows and I love both sets of models so much I can't decide which ones to build so I figured the best way to do it would be five of each.

So what I want to know is from a tactical point of view is a unit of only five of each capable of pulling their weight in a list?

[Tullarion]

It really depends on what points level you're going for, of course. The higher the points value, the less difference they will make. 5 shadow warriors can be good war machine hunters, but are very susceptible to any amount of attention paid to them. One magic missile, one unit's shooting or one charge from an eagle or similar chaff clearer, and they're pretty hosed. If you can destroy enough war machines or squishy single characters though, it may be worth it. That tactic will work in smaller games (say 1500 or less) with only five, but any larger and you're just giving away points.

Sisters in small units work very well as regen strippers. You're not trying to do damage with them (there aren't enough to truly do damage), but one flaming wound on a chimera/hell pit abomination/hydra will allow your much cheaper and more plentiful archers/reavers/bolt throwers to arrow it to death. They are less susceptible to instant backlash than the shadow warriors, given that they will be behind your lines, but if your opponent is running a lot of regen creatures, expect some attention sent their way. However, unless you are going for smaller games, I'd say two units of five, for redundancy, are essential, otherwise your opponent will do everything to destroy them and lose your flaming arrows.

In short, 1500 and less, 5 shadow warriors/5 sisters should be fine. Any larger and you either want 10 shadow warriors or 5+5 sisters.

[English 2000]

Almost all of my games are played at 2200 points. I never leave home without 5 Shadow Warriors. A unit of 5 is fantastic at this points level.

Best case, my opponent leaves me the space I need to start in his backfield and kill war machines.

Worst case he clumps all his war machines together or spreads across the table to keep me out of his flanks/backfield. That means for 70 points I'm dictating his deployment before the game begins.

Then I can decide to use them to block his scouts/vanguard moves or protect my bolt throwers if he has something that can move on and threaten them. I can also just use them as extra archers, chaff hunters, redirectors etc.

I honestly believe 5 Shadow Warriors are a 1+ choice in most lists at almost any points level.

[Breezly]

For me, I love them both, but, if I can't take 2 units of 5 then they aren't worth it. I am a big believer in redundancy in my lists. I just don't think 5 alone works, once they take a hit, they are not effective. I have been playing with 2 units of 5 sisters and 3 unitsf 5 SW lately and they have been fun...just not sure how effective, so they may go to a Frosty. I take sisters over SW, but try to take 2 units. Lots we can do with those 70pts.

--Breezly

[Ratvan]

I have amended my MSU list to include 2x5 Sisters and a Unit of 5 Shadow Warriors, Champ and Tormentor Sword as typically I manage to get them into strike range of a character early on. Am hoping that even if champ does a wound and perishes a wizard with stupidity forces an opponent to re think his strategy at the very least. Obviously this needs testing which should be starting soon

[Gondarion]

For me, no shadow warriors is enough. For Sisters, I like units of 6-12, maybe more if I can. Having an MSU approach with sisters can be a good strategy because it makes it harder for the opponent to use deployment to keep his regenerating troops away from at least one unit of sisters.

[John Rainbow]

It depends. I would say 5 Shadow Warriors is enough to accomplish their harassment role. For sisters the question is different depending on the target/toughness. For instance 5 sisters should do 1.67 wounds to a unit of trolls (assuming hitting on 3's and wounding on 4's). Is this enough to reliably negate regen on such a unit? I leave that decision up to you but I take 7 sisters (2.33 wounds)

[Woodsman Axe]

Hi, i know it's a little off topic but are sisters worth taking at all in a 1500-2400 point army. I'm stating a HE army and previously ran Lizards and Wood Elves. I really like the sisiters and will run them any way but just wanted to know your experiences with them, and what they are good for. If this has already been covered in another thread, sorry and could you please direct me to the thread. thanks

[John Rainbow]

Hi, i know it's a little off topic but are sisters worth taking at all in a 1500-2400 point army. I'm stating a HE army and previously ran Lizards and Wood Elves. I really like the sisiters and will run them any way but just wanted to know your experiences with them, and what they are good for. If this has already been covered in another thread, sorry and could you please direct me to the thread. thanks

Hello and welcome first of all! I see you're new to Ulthuan. That's great.

As for sisters, they obviously pose a long-range threat but more than that they have flaming attacks. It is this ability that makes them so worthwhile in a HE list as they can strip regen before shooting with RBTs, etc. This is why I include them in my list. In a pinch they are also fairly cheap (in small numbers) and can therefore be used to redirect enemy units if necessary.

[Woodsman Axe]

Thanks John, I likedthe look and fluff of the sisters so I'm glad to hear they are worth taking.
So sisters are good as a units but what do you all think of the Handmaiden of the Everqueen joinin them. Worth it, works well? Or just get more sisters?
Thanks

[Domine Nox]

Thanks John, I likedthe look and fluff of the sisters so I'm glad to hear they are worth taking.
So sisters are good as a units but what do you all think of the Handmaiden of the Everqueen joinin them. Worth it, works well? Or just get more sisters?
Thanks

Only worth it if you have a sizable block of sisters. Paying the points for the hand maiden for 5-10 sisters is a total waste. But if you find yourself fielding 15 or more then she starts to earn her points because that's a lot of shooting getting to take advantage of quick to fire.

[Orien]

I run two units of sisters, one unit of 15 and one unit of 14. The unit of 14 bunkers the Handmaiden with the Reaver Bow and Potion of Strength. I used to run a unit of 29 but found that they were being tied up pretty quickly by my mates DP.

I find concentrated fire from the sisters, especially supported by a couple of Bolt Throwers terrifies chaos warriors. You can delete about 8 per turn...

[Eirik]

There could be some interesting math hammer in here. I might run the odds for shadow warriors and sisters against some common war machines or other targets.

Afterall, if 5 sisters is enough to reliably strip regen off something, why not take a bolt thrower instead of upping them to 10. If 5 shadows is enough to kill most war machines, why bother paying more for more?

[English 2000]

I generally find that 5 Shadow Warriors is enough for War machines (dwarf warmachines are the exception but I haven't had the misfortune of playing cornerhammer since 6th ed so they're a non-issue in my meta).

I take 2 units of 5 Reavers, 1 eagle and 5 Shadow Warriors in my 2200 point list. War machines generally don't last long against me.

5 Sw is enough that it forces your opponent to spread out or allow you into his backfield without investing so many points that you suffer if he blocks the warmachines from your scouting.

[Sackree]

There could be some interesting math hammer in here. I might run the odds for shadow warriors and sisters against some common war machines or other targets.

Afterall, if 5 sisters is enough to reliably strip regen off something, why not take a bolt thrower instead of upping them to 10. If 5 shadows is enough to kill most war machines, why bother paying more for more?

That would be very interesting to see. Not intending to put any pressure on you to pull out your calculator though haha.

I've used 5 of each a bit now and I do think they fufill their jobs in small numbers. You just have to remember not to expect them to go above and beyond the call of duty.

[Archmage_Mariona]

I actually find shadow warriors good as a bunkef for a high archmage with the book and obsidian amulet, being skirmishers they are somewhat protected from shooting ((especially with the bonus ward save) they can easily outmaneuver your opponent to avoid being charged (can march 10" with unlimited reforms) archmage gains skirmish because of the rules and the obsidian amulet plus high magic can eazily give the unit a 3++ against magical missiles. They allow the archmage to cast some of the shorter range spells with less danger and always be close to where they need to be, I usually play 2K games and this often works in my meta but my opponent's often rely on very little shooting with magic missiles to plug the gap, it would need to be tested but it works well enough with even 5 shadow warriors.

Just something to consider.