Lore of Metal

[Eltherion]

This Lore is missing from the Tactics section so I thought I would cover it as I have used it in 8th Ed with my MSU HE lists.

I feel this Lore is an underrated under utilized Lore and is especially useful for combined arms style High Elf Armies.

I run a Solo Lvl4 Achmage with the book of Hoeth.

One of the reasons I like this Lore is the spells have a 24" range or more in most cases, and they can be further boosted. But Metal also helps the HE by punching through armor.

Lore of Metal tends not to be not as popular as Death or other Lores and doesn't get penalized when using Swedish Comp scores for example.


Lore Attribute
Flaming and Ignore armour saves which is very handy vs. heavily armored armies such as Bretonnians, WoC, Dwarves, as well as Monstrous and normal cavalry units. However Metal is also really useful even vs. most armies as their are usually a few units that are heavily armored, Ogres (eg: Mournfangs & Iron Blasters), Cold One Knights, Empire Knights, Monstrous cavalry, etc..

The flaming is useful but only vs. targets with both armour and Regen.
Also double damage on Flammable Troops such as WE: Treemen and Treekin.
Re-rolling misses when cast at troops in buildings eg: Watchtower Scenario is also a nice bonus.

Warning: The Dragonhelm and Dragonbane Gem may be found on solo characters so don't waste your Golden Hounds or Searing Dooms on them unless really desperate to inflict an extra wound.


Metal Spells

The spells I usually want are Final Transmutation and Enchanted Blades you can swap your worst spell out for Searing Doom, but other spells are useful as well.

Final Transmutation 15+ ***
I use an MSU army so larger units can be a big problem. If up against a death star then 6 dicing Final Transmutation in conjunction with Book of Hoeth can be really useful even sniping out the odd character. I use this spell mainly to reduce the opponents largest unit in size killing 1/3rd of the unit per turn and cause a Panic Test. The side effect of the spell is stupidity on neighboring enemy units within 12"s which is just a small bonus.

Note: This is not a unit deleting Spell but it thins down the numbers so that the HE units can then shoot the unit down further prior to engaging the unit in Close Combat.

An example of its use was when I cast it at a unit of 12 Bretonnian knights with 3 characters in, I got really lucky killing 2 characters and 3 knights.

Advantages compared to other big spells.
1. Final Transmutation will always hit its target if successfully cast. Some of the other big spells have limited ranges or scatter.
2. No Look Out sir rolls vs. Final Transmutation, whilst there is a Look Out Sir vs. Pit of Shades & Purple Sun (templates).
3. Doesn't scatter like Pit of Shades (Shadow).
4. Doesn't backfire like Purple Sun (Death), Purple Sun does more damage vs. Initiative 3 or less troops.
5. Has a longer range than Dwellers Below (Life), Dwellers does more damage vs. Strength 3 or less troops.

So overall Final Transformation is more reliable and has a good range compared to the other unit deleting spells.

Enchanted Blades 9+ ***
I love this spell you can cast it into combat or buff some HE shooting with +1 to hit (Sisters hitting on 2's at long range) yes please.
This is a really nice spell and quite low to cast 9+ at 24"s (using 2 dice with a Lvl 4 with Book of Hoeth) or boosted to 12+ and 48"s.
The Armor piercing goes well with my lists which have a lot of Strength 5 Dragon Princes, Silver Helms, Swordmasters and Strength 6 White Lions.
Magical attacks this is a good bonus vs. WE's (negates their ward save) and Ethereals VC's.
Most of the time the HE troops will be hitting on 2's or 3's if buffed by this spell.
I will often cast this spell early on in the Magic Phase and amazingly it gets let through as opponents are more worried about the direct damage spells

Searing Doom 10+ ***
Not bad for softening up enemy cavalry or other heavily armored units. Boosted version expensive to cast 20+ but 2D6 hits. The problem with this spell is it is only good vs. heavily armored units but most armies will have at least one unit with decent armor.

Transmutation to Lead 12+ **
Quite a good debuff spell enemy unit gets -1 to WS, BS & armour saves. This has synergies with Plague of Rust, lowering armor by 2 total.

Plague of Rust 7+ **
Handy lowering opponents Armour by one for the rest of the game, multiple casts on the same unit can be handy also, making the HE shooting more effective. You can even try casting this at the end of your Magic Phase with 1 Die (Lvl4 BoH) and have a good chance of getting it off.

Glittering Robe 9+ **
This spell is situational depending on the army you face but adding extra +2 to armor isn't bad, but choose the unit you buff wisely.
Probably the best use of this spell is the bubble effect boosted version (16+ to cast), giving all units within 12"s the extra 5+ to their armor saves. Certainly useful vs. very shooty enemies like Skinks, Wood Elves, DE avoidance lists, TK's. It is even useful for boosting our combat troops particularly vs. Skaven and Greenskin or other regular troopers particularly one's with low strength attacks.

Gehennas Golden Hounds 9+ *
Similar to Searing Doom with shorter range 12"s, unless boosted which then makes it higher to cast 12+ than Searing Doom 10+ with the same 24" range. So like a weaker second Searing Doom. The main problem with this spell is its short range and the boosted version is higher to cast than Searing Doom so unless up against a heavily armored opposing army eg: WoC or Bretonnians, probably the first spell to swap out for Searing Doom.


Using Lore of Metal
1. One thing to watch out for is not to lower armour saves on the units you are using Searing Doom and Golden Hounds on.
2. Take advantage of the long range of most spells the boosted Final Transmutation has a 36" range really nice!!!!
3. Watch out for characters using the Dragonhelm or Dragonbane Gem (2+ Ward Save vs. Flaming).
4. Try to cast Final Transmutation on larger units.
5. Choose your spells wisely (see guide below).
6. Final Transmutation 4 dice to cast with a Lvl 4 Book of Hoeth.

Spell Choice Guide
vs. Shooty Armies eg: WE's, Lizardmen, DE's, HE's Glittering Robes
vs. Bretonnians, WoC, Dwarves, Lizardmen, Chaos Dwarves, Empire, WE's, Searing Doom/Golden Hounds
vs. all armies, in particular armies with Death stars, Knight Buses or larger hordes Final Transmutation
vs. Ogres Transmutation to Lead (lower their Weapon Skill, BS and armor save)

Summary
Metal is a very useful Lore particularly for its range 24" spells so as long as your Achmage is alive they should be useful for all 6 turns of the game. It gives the HE's something to help deal with armor Searing Doom/Golden Hounds and something to deal with Death Stars and horde armies Final Transmutation. The generic spells such as Plague of Rust, Transmutation to Lead, Glittering Robes and Enchanted Blades are all useful vs. most armies.

[Eirik]

If you're going to post about the lore attribute being flaming, it's worth a mention that many of the foes that you need metal agianst the most are simply immune to it. 2+ ward saves vs fire are extremely common on models that are judged to be essential to their army. Most daemon princes will rock dragonhelm or dragonbane, for example.

But you are right to point out that this lore is best against non-character armor, like cold ones and knights and tanks.

[Domine Nox]

I usually make my scroll caddy mage Metal. Since my main mage is usually High, this provides a nice source of anti-armor, something that High Elves are very much lacking if you don't have White Lions.

[Eltherion]

Thanks guys for your input will include the ideas in the above post.

[Domine Nox]

I notice you mention Enchanted Blades on Sisters, but they are already pretty capable in their own right needing 2s or 3s with a -1 save sometimes a -2. I feel the real shining benefit from Enchanted Blades on Elves is to boost the unexpected, regular archers or seaguard. Enchanted Blades means they are back to most likely hitting on 3s rather than 4s, and that -1 save from a unit that is most likely 20+ shots puts a damper on medium armored targets.

Gehenna's Golden Hounds is by all accounts a useless spell. If it didn't allow look out sir! I'd consider it decent, but as it stands a garbage spell that should always be traded out.

Final Transmutation I don't really get. Sure it has the whole "is dead too bad so sad" thing going for it, but it only does that on 5+ for troops, and 6s for multi-wound models. That's like trying to cast Pit of Shades on Elves, why bother? Especially when you figure you're using metal because it's good against armor, Searing Doom is much better suited to the task, lower casting value and takes out a model on its armor save, which except in a few circumstances will be a roll of 5+ or better. Sure it can't take out a character, but why cast a 15+ or 18+ spell to pray a guy rolls a 6?

Plague of Rust is just mean if you run 2+ Bolt Throwers, because it makes volley shot that much more devastating every turn. 2+ units originally have a 4+ against volley shot, 1 cast of Plague of rust and it's a 5+. Double the threat if you're using Sisters against a Force of Destruction.

[Eltherion]

Domine Nox
Golden Hounds isn't that bad a shorter range unless boosted, yes its not going to snipe characters very well, but if they pass their look Out Sir rolls the wounds go on the unit so D6 the same as Searing Doom. So as long as the opponent has characters in units its like a second Searing Doom. Otherwise swap it out as you say.

Admittedly Enchanted Blades on the Sisters may not be optimal but Strength 4 shots at -2 to armour saves (or -3 vs. forces of destruction), is still good vs. heavily armored troops. So their 2+ AS's become 5+ AS's

WoC Skullcrushers, DE Cold One's, VC Knight Bus, Skaven Doomwheels, O & G Black Orcs, Beastman Doombulls.

As you have pointed out still good on regular archers vs. lightly armored troops as well.

Final Transmutation is situational but deleting 1/3 rd of a unit no saves is awesome in addition a 1/6 chance of sniping characters in the unit. (No saves of any kind). Goodbye enemy Death Stars!!!!

So a 1/6 of killing Achaeon, Tyrion, Terrorgheist, Phoenix, Lord of Change, Dragon, etc.... and it doesn't scatter like (Pit of Shades) or backfire like (Purple Sun).

As long as you pick your target for this spell wisely I think it is really good. Generally the biggest unit in the opponents army is the target for this spell and gives the best bang for buck.

Admittedly not so good vs. Ogres but I would still cast it on an Iron Gut Deathstar or big unit of Mournfangs.

[J4far]

I think I might try out Lore of Metal in my next list as I have been having problems with Monstrous Cav and Warriors of Chaos. Admittedly it won't help against the Daemon Prince due to the 2+ ward vs. flamming, but that frees up my bolt throwers to target him more than having to focus fire magic AND shooting against the same target.

[Eirik]

Just one more exception, very nitpicky and only because I made you change something in the first place. You could use golden hounds on solo characters with dragonbane gem or dragonhelm if they're in a unit and you're relying on LoS to attack the unit in general.

[jamierk]

I've been looking at sweedish comp recently, and Lore of Metal is not treated badly for us. I've run a loremaster next to a lvl 4 archmage with the book on metal before, as metal for me is a great support lore as long as you get enough spells to choose enchanted blades or glittering robes. I start the phase throwing aggressively on the loremaster, and if he fails a casting value, you've still got a good phase on metal. If you get a few good spells through you'll force the opponent to choose between dispelling that or the likely enchanted blades or glittering robes which can be game changing. Its a good way to rule a high dice magic phase. Double searing doom is nice to fall back on for heavy armour options also.

[pk-ng]

Just one more exception, very nitpicky and only because I made you change something in the first place. You could use golden hounds on solo characters with dragonbane gem or dragonhelm if they're in a unit and you're relying on LoS to attack the unit in general.

LoS is not compuslory.

Final Transmutation I don't really get. Sure it has the whole "is dead too bad so sad" thing going for it, but it only does that on 5+ for troops, and 6s for multi-wound models. That's like trying to cast Pit of Shades on Elves, why bother? Especially when you figure you're using metal because it's good against armor, Searing Doom is much better suited to the task, lower casting value and takes out a model on its armor save, which except in a few circumstances will be a roll of 5+ or better. Sure it can't take out a character, but why cast a 15+ or 18+ spell to pray a guy rolls a 6?

Final Transmutation isn't good at taking out armour units. If you read the spell you'll know that. The spell is decent at taking out infantry blocks. Granted it is not as good as Dewellers, Purple Sun or Pit of Shadows but it can 2 main advanatages.....range (boosted @ 36) and cheapness to cast (4 dice - 20% chance of IF). Stupidity is just a minor bonus but if you are at the receiving end of it are you going to risk the chance of maybe rolling a 1/6 chance of getting your BSB/General killed? In tournaments probably not (depending on the risk / reward ratio).

[Prince of Spires]

but if you are at the receiving end of it are you going to risk the chance of maybe rolling a 1/6 chance of getting your BSB/General killed? In tournaments probably not (depending on the risk / reward ratio).

Hard to say in general of course, since it depends on the situation, number of dice on either side, availability of a scroll, other spells in play etc.

But I would probably risk it if the other dice could achieve something more dangerous. A one in 6 chance is not that great in a game of dice, and if you have another dangerous spell lined up and enough dice to cast it then I would definatly let it go.

The "problem" with final transmutation is that all the other insta kill spells have a chance to perform better (especially against multi wound models). Dwellers is better against most things. Purple sun and pit are better against low I models (of which there are enough). With final transmutation you are always looking for a 6 to take out a character. Not the best of possibilities.

Rod

[Eltherion]

A quick comparison of the Big Spells vs. Final Transmutation 15+ Range 24"s (boosted 18+ 36"s)

Remember Purple Sun and Pit of Shades are less reliable at hitting their targets.

Purple Sun (Death) 15+ (Range 6" to 30"s) this spell is better in most cases. However it can potentially backfire or miss, and is only equal to Final Transformation vs. I5 troops such as other Elves and WoC.

Pit of Shades (Shadow) 15+ (boosted I would argue this spell is worse in most cases than Final Transmutation partially due to its inaccuracy and small template. It is however better at killing low Initiative Characters, Monsters, MC and MI eg: Ogres.

Dwellers Below (Life) 18+ (21+ boosted 24" range) so you have to get close to cast this spell or roll 6 dice at it.
Better vs. nearly all troops and equal to Final Transmutation vs. high strength monsters

[Domine Nox]

Final Transmutation isn't good at taking out armour units. If you read the spell you'll know that.

I did read the spell and do know that. My point is based on the majority of Metal spells, why are you taking Metal if you're not planning to deal with armor? That is the whole reason I take a Metal mage to deal with heavily armored targets. If I'm hoping to deal with blocks of infantry any lore is better or on par with Metal since at worst Dwellers will be on 5s as well for about the same cast cost.

[Ambrosius]

Good writeup! If nothing else, this thread is making me take a hard look at metal again for play vs dwarves. Yes, dwarves really fear Purple Sun and Pit, but there are a number of "dud" spells in both shadow and death that make them risky to take in this matchup.

For shadow, Steed of Shadows and Pendulum come to mind. (I think that there's also one that causes fear in either shadow or death, which is not so great against a high leadership army.) Also, there is the already-mentioned tendency of Pit to scatter. When you're dealing with a lunch tray full of ogres, that's not so bad. When you're trying to snipe an organ gun, it's a definite liability.

For Death, the short range of the spells hurts, as when you're that close to a gunline, you want to be thinking about getting into combat, not sniping characters. Also, the signature is not good against high leadership, further increasing the chances you'll end up with a suboptimal spell selection. And let's face it, against dwarven magic defense, you need to have several threatening spells if you want to get something off. Sure, you could throw six dice at Purple Sun, but he's going to dispel/destroy it with one of those spellbreaker runes the first chance he gets. After that, you're trying to threaten LD 9 dwarves with Spirit Leech and some short range character snipes? No, thanks. He's going to let spirit leech go and dispel the snipes.

In that context, Final Transmutation starts to look a lot better. Yes, it's not nearly as scary as a direct hit with Pit or a 6-dice Purple Sun, but in the context of the rest of the lore, I feel that it's still a competitive choice. Aside from Golden Hounds, there's not a bad spell in the lore. Knowing that you can swap Hounds for Searing Doom if it rolls up, you go into the game certain that you'll have 4 solid spells, regardless of fickle dice. What's more, the 3 combat buffs/debuffs in Metal all work nicely both at range and after combat is joined. This means that even early in the game, there are no spells in Metal that your opponent can blithely ignore while he dispels your magic missiles or transmutation. Mindrazor is great, but it's not very threatening when we're still 14" apart (after T1 movement).

The only place I feel that Metal really falls down against dwarves is that it really has no answer to their war machines. Crews are going to have light armor only, so you have just about as good a chance to wound with S3 shooting as you do with Metal magic.

TL;DR - While shadow and death are both great lores, I think that a dwarf player has a relatively easy time prioritizing dispels against both. Metal, while it lacks an uber-killy spell, may present a dwarf player with more difficult dispel choices.

[Eirik]

LoS is not compuslory.

I never realized this. I guess it's only compulsory for champions by RAW.

[pk-ng]

but if you are at the receiving end of it are you going to risk the chance of maybe rolling a 1/6 chance of getting your BSB/General killed? In tournaments probably not (depending on the risk / reward ratio).

Hard to say in general of course, since it depends on the situation, number of dice on either side, availability of a scroll, other spells in play etc.

But I would probably risk it if the other dice could achieve something more dangerous. A one in 6 chance is not that great in a game of dice, and if you have another dangerous spell lined up and enough dice to cast it then I would definatly let it go.

The "problem" with final transmutation is that all the other insta kill spells have a chance to perform better (especially against multi wound models). Dwellers is better against most things. Purple sun and pit are better against low I models (of which there are enough). With final transmutation you are always looking for a 6 to take out a character. Not the best of possibilities.

Rod

Totally agree hence i said it isn't as good as the others.

Final Transmutation isn't good at taking out armour units. If you read the spell you'll know that.

I did read the spell and do know that. My point is based on the majority of Metal spells, why are you taking Metal if you're not planning to deal with armor? That is the whole reason I take a Metal mage to deal with heavily armored targets. If I'm hoping to deal with blocks of infantry any lore is better or on par with Metal since at worst Dwellers will be on 5s as well for about the same cast cost.

There's only 2-3 range spell (barring big instant kill spells) in the WH universe that can take on Heavily armoured unit is Searing Doom (D6 or 2D6) or Gateway (maybe Sig for Tzeentch). So you take metal for that 1 spell (unless you're WoC/DoC). The other spells are just very situational. My point is your choices are limited (1 spell) unless I've missed another lore.
Dewellers is not the same casting cost. As I've said Metal is cheaper and better range (24"/15+ & 36"/18+) compared to Dewellers (12"/18+ & 24"/21+) BUT the other do it more efficiently.

[Eltherion]

Something I just realized as regards Pit of Shades & Purple Sun is that characters get a Look out Sir vs. these 2 spells (Templates), whereas vs. Final Transformation they don't making Lore of Metal even better vs Death stars.

[Eirik]

Something I just realized as regards Pit of Shades & Purple Sun is that characters get a Look out Sir vs. these 2 spells (Templates), whereas vs. Final Transformation they don't making Lore of Metal even better vs Death stars.

Well, uhh... it's better for sniping characters. But I'd much rather hit a gutstar with Purple Sun and kill 2/3 of it than hit it with Final Trans and kill 1/6. Gut star is probably the most common star out there. Also sun can't be deflected by runemaw. Also sun is better for killing war machines, chariots, trolls, OnG, lizards. Also sun can hit multiple units in one casting.

[Eltherion]

I must admit vs. Ogres Lore of Metal isn't the best and it is one of the armies I might consider dropping Final Transmutation against.

[Eirik]

That said, final trans is about as good as you're going to get for killing characters. Sun/pit allow LoS and dwellers is occasionally better, especially against wizards, but S5 isn't rare on characters.

[Eltherion]

Feedback on my Solo Achmage Lore of Metal BoH.

I played in a 2 day Tourney Recently.

Game 1 vs. WoC Final Transmuted a block of Warriors which eventually went down to shooting, Searing Doomed a chariot and the Army General.
Game 2 vs. Goblin Themed army. Searing Doomed Spider riding character, Final Transmuted a big Squig Herd and Goblin block.
Game 3 vs. Skaven (failed to roll Final Transmute), Magic did very little this game Enchanted Blades helped a bit as did the Glittering Robe bubble.
Game 4 vs. Vampires (failed to roll Final Transmute), enchanted Blades helped do some damage
Game 5 vs. Vampires Final Transmuted the Knight Bus twice weakening it enough for Silver Helms to finish it off, Searing Doomed the Army General to death.

Overall the Lore of Metal was good but without Final Transmute it wasn't as effective. It won me Game 1 and Game 5.

[Big Brother]

Using Lore of Metal
1. One thing to watch out for is not to lower armour saves on the units you are using Searing Doom and Golden Hounds on..

Actually, this isn't an issue. The lore attribute says both of these spells use the target's unmodified armor save. So you could go to town lower armor saves and still wound just fine with the damage spells.

[Stormie]

Thanks for the lil summary, it's about what I expected, it can be a little underwhelming at times. I think if you're playing in a tournament where they don't add in extra look out sirs to big nasty spells it's a great lore, and people seem to be really under-rating Final Transmutation in this thread. Relatively low casting value, long range, etc. The stupidity effect is also hardly mentioned- imagine being able to cast a spell that, if aimed effectively, could cause an entire wing of your enemy's army, their entire flanking force, far from the general or BSB, to not function properly! And then allow that spell to also wipe out a third of most units and snipe characters too. Sounds good to me!

[ninjaska]

I would like add, that Seering Doom or Gehenna Hounds are pretty solid choice against Ironblaster, Doomwheel or Warhydra. This spells wounds on 4+, so it's similar to d6 Str6. And Stardragons are wounded on 3+ so it's like Magic Missile with Str8!!!

[Eltherion]

Thanks for the lil summary, it's about what I expected, it can be a little underwhelming at times. I think if you're playing in a tournament where they don't add in extra look out sirs to big nasty spells it's a great lore, and people seem to be really under-rating Final Transmutation in this thread. Relatively low casting value, long range, etc. The stupidity effect is also hardly mentioned- imagine being able to cast a spell that, if aimed effectively, could cause an entire wing of your enemy's army, their entire flanking force, far from the general or BSB, to not function properly! And then allow that spell to also wipe out a third of most units and snipe characters too. Sounds good to me!

Good point Stormie. I didn't get the opportunity to exploit this (Stupidity) but vs. Orcs and Goblins or low Leadership Armies it could create chaos on one of their flanks (away from the General & BSB).

Using Lore of Metal
1. One thing to watch out for is not to lower armour saves on the units you are using Searing Doom and Golden Hounds on..

Actually, this isn't an issue. The lore attribute says both of these spells use the target's unmodified armor save. So you could go to town lower armor saves and still wound just fine with the damage spells.

Thanks Big Brother I am learning something each time I use this Lore.


Lore of Metal Conclusions after 2 Tournies.
Firstly I will always take Final Transmutation if I roll it, because it is that good and as mentioned above people underestimate it.
How can you not like a range 36" Spell that doesn't scatter. It is reliably killing 1/3rd of any big unit on the table (1/6 if Ogres).

Enchanted Blades is probably my second choice of spells in the Metal Lore this spell is so versatile either assisting shooting or close combat.

Searing Doom is very good as well, though not always effective on characters. You can always get this spell as it is the signature which is also nice.

[Bashtrigger]

Domine Nox
Golden Hounds isn't that bad a shorter range unless boosted, yes its not going to snipe characters very well, but if they pass their look Out Sir rolls the wounds go on the unit so D6 the same as Searing Doom. So as long as the opponent has characters in units its like a second Searing Doom. Otherwise swap it out as you say.

Admittedly Enchanted Blades on the Sisters may not be optimal but Strength 4 shots at -2 to armour saves (or -3 vs. forces of destruction), is still good vs. heavily armored troops. So their 2+ AS's become 5+ AS's

WoC Skullcrushers, DE Cold One's, VC Knight Bus, Skaven Doomwheels, O & G Black Orcs, Beastman Doombulls.

As you have pointed out still good on regular archers vs. lightly armored troops as well.

Final Transmutation is situational but deleting 1/3 rd of a unit no saves is awesome in addition a 1/6 chance of sniping characters in the unit. (No saves of any kind). Goodbye enemy Death Stars!!!!

So a 1/6 of killing Achaeon, Tyrion, Terrorgheist, Phoenix, Lord of Change, Dragon, etc.... and it doesn't scatter like (Pit of Shades) or backfire like (Purple Sun).

As long as you pick your target for this spell wisely I think it is really good. Generally the biggest unit in the opponents army is the target for this spell and gives the best bang for buck.

Admittedly not so good vs. Ogres but I would still cast it on an Iron Gut Deathstar or big unit of Mournfangs.

In all fairness, I'm packing Metal on my tzeentch sorcerer lord for my upcoming friendly tournament, and while playtesting against my friend who plays a nasty Ogre Deathstar, he was ABSOLUTELY TERRIFIED of it. He packs 3 characters and each dies on a 6 no saves allowed. In all my testgames against him, I managed to draw his dispell scroll on the first turn each game from the threat alone.

[Prince of Spires]

In all fairness, I'm packing Metal on my tzeentch sorcerer lord for my upcoming friendly tournament, and while playtesting against my friend who plays a nasty Ogre Deathstar, he was ABSOLUTELY TERRIFIED of it. He packs 3 characters and each dies on a 6 no saves allowed. In all my testgames against him, I managed to draw his dispell scroll on the first turn each game from the threat alone.

IIRC Ogres have a banner which lets them redirect damage spells that target the unit on a 2+. That should take care of most magic threats to the deathstar. Which is why magic often isn't the best of options against them.

Also, looking for 6's is never a solid strategy in my mind. Unless you can realy get the numbers you need.

Rod

[Bashtrigger]

I did indeed ask him why he never thought about taking that banner, but he replied that he wanted the saves on his BSB so it could be his third frontrow guy to prevent attacks to the ironbreakers. And if there are 3 or more characters in a unit, I personally consider 3 throws on a 1/6 chance to be very favorable odds for killing a character to be honest. If it is just one or two characters the chances become slim, but in all honesty, just forcing him to make stupidity tests on a large part of his army could be worth it already.

Maybe just look at it this way, wouldn't you feel a little uneasy about having to throw under a 6 to save your 275+ archmage and then another 15+ rolls under a 5 to save your archers (and then I'm actually going easy on you, try the same comparison with an Chaos lord and chaos warriors).

This seems to me to be a perfect example of a difference in percieved threat level between caster and reciever.

edit: Just look at it this way, your opponent will not find a 1 in 6 chance of losing a potentionally very important character to be very favorable either, so you've got a great chance of pulling his dispell scroll in turn one, unless your opponent is a very coolblooded general, in which case you might still get lucky, kill 200+ points of character, at least kill about 1/3 of his infantry and force him to pass a stupidity test on at least a part of his army (most of the time) to boot.

Needless to say, I'm quite a fan of final transmutation, and have good reason to be, since it has played a significant part in a significant number of wins over the course of my use of lore of Metal. Chances will always be chances, but if the possible gains are high, slim chances still become very attractive (or scary, depending on where you're standing)