Bolt Throwers vs Sisters

[mbutler132000]

Lately I've heard a lot of people seem to be big on the Sisters for our army. After looking at the rules for them and the bolt throwers I am trying to figure out why anyone would take the SoA over a ECBT. Cost are the same and they are both rare. Below are the pros for each. Please let me know if I missed anything because based on these I don't see any reason to take the sisters.

Sisters of Avelorn
1. BS 5 - Means a unit of five will hit an average of 4.2 times per phase.
2. May move and shoot more easily
3. May stand and shoot
4. Will have more attacks in close combat, only S3
5. 5 wounds - however as their sounds go down so do their attacks
6. Flaming attacks
Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower
1. Range of 48"
2. 6 shots averaging 4 his a turn with -2 to armor for everyone, not just destruction
3. Seconds shooting option to take out Heavy armor.
4. High toughness
5. Sounds don't diminish number of attacks.

I think the additional options from the bolt Thrower and extended range from the bolt thrower makes it a much more viable option. I know the flaming attacks can be good for things like the HPA, but there are better ways to deal with that instead of S4 attacks. If anyone had any other of reasons on why the SOA are better that the bolt throwers I would be very interested to hear them.

[Tethlis]

You missed Magical Attacks, which is a huge advantage versus Sisters. Combined with Magical Attacks off the Phoenix, they make Ethereals a non-issue for all High Elf players.

I'm not sure people really advocate one or the other. I personally use a combination of both. Sometimes you want the RBTs to drill the Strength 6 single shot into a Daemon Prince, which Sisters can't do. Sometimes you need to scrape Regeneration off of a Chimera or Trolls, which the RBTs can't do. Both units perform best when they're in tandem; the Sisters provide the specialty Flaming/Magical, the bolt throwers back them up with the single shot or long range bands.

A point on survivability. Sisters aren't vulnerable to cannons, since a cannon is only ever likely to kill one Sister at a time. Cannons murder bolt throwers on a 2+ though. Similarly, bolt throwers are quite resilient to low-Strength shooting and magic missiles compared to Sisters. Both are fragile though, with the RBT only having two crew.

[solith]

While this is almost too inconsequential to count, a unit of Sisters once won me a game of Watchtower by being able to assault and capture the watchtower itself.

More seriously, I think it also depends on how many points you're spending on rare shooting. A single Bolt Thrower isn't much of a threat, so if you're only spending 70-100 points on rare shooting I'd take the Sisters for their increased utility - if I can shoot Spirit Hosts down I don't have to use power dice on them etc. On the other hand, if I'm spending 140-300 points on rare shooting I'd take 2+ Bolt Throwers because now they are a potential threat to larger targets.

Also, Sisters have the bonus of fitting odd point values so they can be easier to fit into your army.

So my opinion (based off feelings more than actual data so take this with a hefty pinch of salt) is something like:
5 Sisters > 1 Bolt Thrower. 2 Bolt Throwers > 10 Sisters. 5 Sisters + 2 Bolt Throwers = 3 Bolt Throwers. 5 Sisters + 3 Bolt Throwers > 4 Bolt Throwers.


Edit: Thinking about this more, Sisters can provide bunkers for characters if needed and can also hide inside buildings for increased protection from BS based shooting and combat from small units

[Struthy]

I've also successfully redirected deathstars for a turn with a 70pt unit of sisters. He didn't really expect it so it was even better.

5 Sisters and 1 RBT are 2 deployment drops vs 2 RBT being 1

[Dalamar]

As someone commonly on the receiving end of the arrows of isha I can say only this:
Sisters of Avelorn are my number one target priority every single game, I have witnessed them singlehandedly obliterate a unit of 30 spears that was bearing down on them.

[Eltherion]

In my lists it is either Sisters and RBT's or neither (combat heavy list).


Sisters shorter range but get rid of Regen so the RBT's can do more damage.

[theviking]

Damage wise I have found them to be about equal, so then it comes down to your preference between double the range with the option for a S6 bolt, vs flaming + magical and more wounds. I think a balanced list will have a mix, at 2000 points I currently take units of 6 and 9 sisters with four bolt throwers. I may drop one RBT though.

[Orien]

I have occasionallly ran sisters in a unit of 29 with a Reaver Bow/POS Handmaiden in there. Deleted a unit of 18 strong nurgle warriors over two turns incl a stand and shoot. They are fantastic IMO.

[Eltherion]

I run 2 x 10 Sisters and 2 RBT's.

[RE.Lee]

I go with 2 RBTs, the battery will soon be expanded to 3. I've tried dropping them in the past but regretted the decision every time... The long range means there's ALWAYS a target!
I've yet to really try giving the Sisters a go - 5 to 8 might be useful, I guess.

[Dorian]

Both!

Okay, that's not too helpful but it's true! Unless I was playing really small games I can't see a time where I couldn't at least take on BT and 9 sisters. I use my sisters in two units of 9 ranked 3x3. They've got a small footprint and still get all 9 shots thanks to MP and in those rare occasions where they see combat they can only receive so many attacks while getting 9 back (although they're easily wiped out).

If I really had to only choose one I'd probably take sisters. Yes the BT has the range and the big shot but I always seem to do so little with the S6 and sisters also bring flaming and magical attacks at a high BS. Much more of a tool box.

[Ferny]

If you're going for just one I would (and do) go sisters for flaming and magical BS5 beauties. Beyond that I'd maybe consider adding RBTs as well for AP even vs good and longer range (I ignore the one shot as it's so unreliable). But definitely start with sisters

[Arreja]

I usually run 5 sisters and one ECBT, and there are some more pro's ans con's.

-number of drops; 2 ECBT's have to be dropped simultaneously (warmachines) while sisters give additional drops. (that besides versatility is why I didn't go for 2 ECBT's)
-24" range of the sisters hurt them, as they are prone to ranged fire. also, I find that sometimes they have to walk to get within range.
-sisters can't shoot 360 degrees. yes, they can wheel, but wheeling gives -1 to hit. Lack of mus also hurts a bit, though a tight formation (say 2x3 for 5~6 SoA) enables them to do a full 180degrees wheel

-I mostly fight forces of good or neutral forces, where their lack of AP is kinda disapointing vs the ECBT
furthermore, just gotta say I love the BS5 of the sisters


wonder if someone might add these (3 pros/cons) to their list, such as the original poster, so we can have ALL the pros and cons collected in one easy viewing list???

Arreja

[finreir]

i quite like one or two, fives or sixes of sisters in my army to drill off soem regen and tickle ethereals, the rbt is so much better other than for these 2 roles though so i dont bother otherwise. What makes the rbt better is basically its range and the fact it pivots without penalty and its choice of 2 types of shot, which i find altogether a more attractive package. But as said sisters have a use and imo its best in these baby units

[Prince of Spires]

It as always depends on your list and what you get out of it.

Sisters are the only way we can get flaming shooting. Because of this they are a force multiplier for other shooting in a HE list. If you run core shooting or a few RBT, then having a unit of sisters means that you can get rid of regen targets fairly easily. The difference between a 4+ save or no save is pretty big after all.

The magical shooting is another thing of course. If your army is low on magical attacks (and HE armies often are) and you run into a lot of ethereal units then sisters are golden. Same if you're find yourself shooting at buildings a lot. Rerolling to wound is pretty great.

As a bonus they are stronger vs "traditional" warmachine hunters. Killing 5-10 ASF, high WS models is not something most of those will achieve in a single combat phase (or 2). Compared to a 2W, t3 (in combat) warmachine that is a big difference. And, as mentioned, no 1-shotting with a cannon.

I think those are the two main reasons for sisters over RBT: they can make other shooting stronger and they add something to the list nothing else can. This makes them great in an all-commers tournament list. Of course, if neither of those two situations apply to then the RBT may be a better choice for you.

Rod