HERO's Guide to High Elf Glory [8th Edition]

[HERO]

No dude, I want you to capitalize as much as you can in this thread. The idea is to find a way to triumph over any adversary. I will be going through your list to give feedback, as well as supplying my own.
As soon as the wife falls asleep.

[NexS]

...As soon as the wife falls asleep.

The secret life..


Ontopic, I play against WoC often, so I'm looking forward to reading some other people's ideas as I ALWAYS struggle. I may have beaten them once, out of maybe 20 battles...
One thing I'm going to try next Chaos match is try and pull the Khorne units out of the battleline with eagles (one benefit of their frenzy) to either line up for a flank charge, or to block his other units (specifically chariots in Tethlis's case) from charging.
I need to find a way to deal with Deamon Princes though.. Perhaps White Lions may be the way to go, and add a razor standard.. Might be worth a try.

[Learn2Eel]

Well, I beat them yesterday in a 1500 point game using the old rules, but that was because I absolutely obliterated them through magic - I had a Level 4 Archmage with the Book of Hoeth (Shadow) and a Level 2 Mage with the Silver Wand (High). Laughably, Flames of the Phoenix was never dispelled, and despite having Festus, he never got a single spell off! Funny game against an army featuring two Gorebeast Chariots, Nurgle Warriors and a Mutalith Vortex Beast.

In the new army book....hmm. Magic superiority is still pretty easy to obtain over Warriors of Chaos, so that shouldn't be an issue. Dealing with the Nurgle Daemon Prince will be a problem for sure though. Their combat Lords are stronger than ours, and our regular Infantry are outclassed by theirs. Frostheart Phoenixes will go a long way, especially when combined with White Lions and Sword Masters. Being wounded on fours or threes by Chaos Warriors is a god send.

[Tethlis]

No dude, I want you to capitalize as much as you can in this thread. The idea is to find a way to triumph over any adversary. I will be going through your list to give feedback, as well as supplying my own.
As soon as the wife falls asleep.

Sounds good.

I have to say, it's tough settling in on any one list. I'll be relieved to start playing games so I can get some concrete experience to back up my theorizing. Every time I think I've settled on a functional list, I have an epiphany and start tweaking things.

[HERO]

Alright man, here's my magic list.

2498
10 drops

LORDS - 23.6%
Lv.4 Archmage, High Magic = 285
Book of Hoeth, Crown

Lv.2 Loremaster = 305
Armor of Caledor, Scroll

HEROES - 5.84%
BSB Noble = 146
GW, AoSSteel

CORE - 25.4%
30x Spearmen (FC, SoDiscipline) = 315
15x Archers, Mus = 160
15x Archers, Mus = 160

SPECIAL - 21.88%
24x White Lions (FC, BotWD) = 392
5x Dragon Princes, Mus = 155

RARE - 23.2%
Frostheart Phoenix = 240
Frostheart Phoenix = 240
Great Eagle = 50
Great Eagle = 50

As you can see, we both have the same direction. However, where yours is more focused on shooting with the support of the extra unit of Archers and RBTs, mine is more MC heavy. Your battle units rely on PG and White Lions, and I have to admit that that might be the better route. However, I chose to allocate my points in 2x Frostheart Phoenix with a unit of Spears and White Lions w/ BotWD to hold the line. That makes 2 key holding units, the same amount of magic power, the main difference is yours rely on a stronger shooting phase.

I'd argue that our armies have similar mobility even though your core is more mobile by far. The Ellyrion Reavers act as pseudo Eagles whereas my mobility comes from 2 Eagles, 2 Phoenixes. Striking power wise in relation to mobility, I think I have the advantage. I have 10 drops to your 11 which gives you the advantage on deployment.

Aside from these differences, I think we'll do just fine vs. the WoC. They aren't an easy matchup due to their naturally high resilience and damage output. That's why I'm trying my hardest to utilize our magic in combination with our Phoenixes. That extra damage output per combat phase + stomp + Blizzard Aura + magic is what's going to carry us through. I really really wanted Phoenix Guard to just hold the line, but I honestly think BotWD White Lions will be able to offer greater results vs. WoC. However, they do suffer more vs. the chariots and that's why I think misdirection with Eagles and charging without fear with Phoenixes will be better than sitting there and taking the hit.

I'm gonna roll with this, and you roll with that and let me know how it goes. I wanna be able to switch into a more heavy mindset like yours too sometime just to test the meta.

[HERO]

Alright, here we go. Onto the Specials and Rares! I'll probably end up talking about Special Characters and Items tomorrow along side some sample army lists that I want to try out. I'm really liking what I see so far and I'm pretty eager to get my army onto the tabletop ASAP.

Specials

Sword Masters of Hoeth - 2.5/5
I can't really say I like what they did with the SM. Taking away their re-rolls on Great Weapons while keeping all their other stats the same is really bad for them when Martial Prowess is factored. They will forever be used as MSU units. Being WS6 I5 and striking at I with 2A S5 is still good, but without their re-rolls they'll be missing a lot more. The points drop is the only thing that's giving them any validity as of now but I can't see them being used outside of pseudo detachment units. Take a unit that you know will hold Steadfast and then flank charge 5-7 of these the next round. Even without re-rolls, you'll still be able to add a good amount of combat res.

White Lions of Chrace - 4.5/5
These have always been solid units and with Martial Prowess, these will remain top dog. The reason why this is so is because they lose nothing with their 1 attack base unlike Sword Masters. WS5 S6 hits all the right targets and striking in 3 ranks allows them to actually deal more damage than their previous re-rolls. The delta for damage is definitely greater, but there's a chance you might fark your rolls. Stubborn is pretty king for an Elite unit and Lion Cloak protects them from getting shot. I can see a unit of 3x3 w/ Champ to be really popular. Cheap, tiny ass footprint, puts out high quality attacks, and doesn't die to a sneeze like Sword Masters.

Phoenix Guard - 4.5/5
Still rock solid units. Has Fear because they don't talk about the 4+ Ward is still there. They only got better because of their Martial Prowess extending to the third rank. This gives them more damage potential than they had last book while maintaining all the great things that made them a solid anvil. No Unbreakable means that every character can join them, and no change in points cost makes them outright better than they were before.

Dragon Princes - 4.5/5
I've always liked these guys and I like them even more now that they have improved in almost every way. They retain all their stats but their Dragon Armor now gives them 6+ Ward as default in addition to their 2+ Ward vs. Fire. Add on the fact they now move 9 because of Ithilmar Barding and are cheaper to boot, you're literally looking at a 9 point WS5 I6 2A S5 on the charge Elf with ASF. Why 9 points? Because Dragon Armor alone costs 20 points on a Prince. How's that for math? I'll probably take these guys in 5-6x and call it a day.

Shadow Warriors - 3/5
Scout Skirmishers who hate on Dark Elves, carry Long Bows and do their jobs well for the points they got decreased to. Overall, solid units but I see them as backseat riders compared to our other Elite infantry.

Tiranoc Chariots - 3.5/5
Much better than before, especially now that you can take them in a squadron of 1-3. Chariots have always been an odd thing with High Elves. They're flexible in that they can shoot, charge into combat, but can't really do all that damage outside for Impact Hits because they're still Elves. The chariot, however, does most of the heavy lifting but with their defensive stats, if they get stuck in combat, they're pretty much toast.

Lion Chariot - 3.5/5
I want to give these guys a 4, but I just can't. They went down in price sure, but the point decrease and Stubborn doesn't justify the fact that the White Lions on top lost ASF. If the chariot was T5 or the AS was 3+ or maybe even both, then these chariots would be quite nice. However, the fact that you're paying a fairly expensive price for a single chariot that has Stubborn but can't handle damage in return. I'm a little disappointed. Still a pretty solid choice with all things considered.

Skycutter Chariot - 4/5
First of all, the thing flies. The Eagle Eye Bolt Thrower isn't the best thing in the world because it only shoots from 24" at S5 D3 wounds no AS, but the fact that you get a movement penalty when shooting the thing is disappointing. Regardless, you're playing for a flying chariot that can negotiate the battlefield and apply constant threat. It's mobility will allow it to get those flank shots and the price tag on this bad boy is what's really helping its score out. The Warhawk pulling it so no slouch and the High Elves on top can still put out some decent damage when M10 S5 Impact hits gets in there on-demand. A good choice for sure, probably the best chariot in the arsenal.

Rare

Great Eagles - 5/5
The best re-director in the game for High Elves have not changed one bit. If anything, they just gave him more options than ever before, allowing you to take huge units of them due to 1+ and giving them all special abilities. Want some ASF for that Eagle? Why not. What about some Armor Piercing? We can do that too. Although the ASF is what's really going to be amazing, I'm not sure if I want to drop 10 points on something that's just going to annoy/redirect most of the time. I love these things, and so should you if you plan on playing High Elves. A lot of people argue that Ellyrion Reavers will replace the Great Eagle as redirectors, pfft, not unless they fly imo.

Flamespyre Phoenix - 4/5
Although I'd rather see more dragons flying around in High Elves, I can't say I'm disappointed with the Phoenixes. The Flamespyre Phoenix is a solid bird with decent stats and good abilities. His special rules are nice and so is his 2+ ward vs. Fire and ability to resurrect. I'd say he's one of the best designed monsters in the game with all things considered. He's a threat on the battlefield when flying over units, when in combat with units, and when he dies with a unit nearby, he's always a threat due to that 3-5 on the Phoenix Reborn (large blast S4 flaming) or if he just comes back to life! Great rules and balance on this unit that matches the fluff perfectly.

Frostheart Phoenix - 5/5
I'm not going to lie to you and say these guys are a little better. These guys are ridiculously good for their points because for 15pts more than a Flamespyre, you get +1WS/S/T/A/Ld. S6 and T6 is huge because it puts them in the sweet spot for damage and resilience. Combine this with the fact that you're flying around with a Ward save and this is pretty significant. Sure, you lose the ability to resurrect, but you gain something infinitely more worrisome for your opponent: Blizzard Aura. Blizzard Aura is absolutely huge: It's a meta-changer and one of the things that will carry the High Elves to victory on many battlefields. The ASL element of the aura is fantastic; stripping away ASF on blenderlords or other high-profile units, but it's the -S that really takes the cake. With the Frostheart in contact with an enemy unit, you're essentially looking at +1T High Elves with better armor saves (which negates the High Elves' only true weakness). Not to mention the bird himself is harder to wound with his virtual T7. Regardless of who you're pitting the bird against, I have high expectations for this unit changing the battlefield much more than any other unit in the book. Well, that and one more little thing we'll cover later.

Eagle Claw RBT - 3.5/5
Went down in points and you can still take 4 of these. You can either shoot a normal Bolt Thrower shot or choose to Volley with 6 shots at S4 AP. Overall, not a bad pick but I'd rather see these guys go down to 50. S6 shooting is powerful, but compared to a cannon for a few points more and it's not even close. Still good though, and will probably see play in more shooting-based armies.

Maiden Guard of Avelorn - 3.5/5
At first, I can't say this unit impressed me. Flaming, magical S4 shots sound great on paper, but they're expensive and die to a soft breeze much like Sword Masters. The key here is to not go too expensive on these girls but use them to deal damage and strip Regen. The 24" is a limitation, but the BS5 more than makes up for it. A unit of 15 will do a good job clearing up any chaff and put out good damage vs. Forces of Destruction with their -1AS. Not a bad unit, but they will take up points in your list so you have to be careful not go crazy.

[Malcontent]

Maybe I'm confused, you can take multiple Great Eagles or Tiranoc Chariots in a single squad? Like how Beastmen have Razorgors and Tomb Kings have their chariots, respectively? Or did I misread your post?

[Baleanoon]

Personally I'd put bolt throwers at 4/5.

Having spent the last 6-8 months playing empire I can tell you cannons aren't what people think they are, and I'd take a s6 bs4 bolt thrower most of the time to get the job done. Considering it takes generally more than one cannonball to get things done anyway, and they can blow up, and that 50 points for the great cannon looks worse and worse. I'd generally speaking would prefer two bolt throwers over 1 cannon. Add to this that bolt throwers are generally more receptive to magic than cannons and you start to see the potential in them.

[Tethlis]

Maybe I'm confused, you can take multiple Great Eagles or Tiranoc Chariots in a single squad? Like how Beastmen have Razorgors and Tomb Kings have their chariots, respectively? Or did I misread your post?

Nope, you have it right. Current indicators are that Tiranoc Chariots and Great Eagles can both be formed into units of multiple models in the new book.

Everything above looks good, HERO.

I might add that Maiden Guard are the only way to work Flaming Attacks into the High Elf shooting phase now, short of something outlandish like taking a BSB with Banner of the Eternal Flame in your Archer unit. For players who are really intent on getting the most out of their Core bowfire, Reaver Bow, Repeater Bolt Throwers, etc. then you not Maiden Guard to slice through Regeneration. A minimum unit is fairly cheap, can always double as a redirector, and stands a good chance of putting a wound on a typical Regenerating Monster profile. In such cases, they make all other shooting in the list twice as effective versus such targets, and I don't think there's ever a shortage of things the Maiden Guard will want to target. Factor in the effectiveness versus niche things like Ethereals and Forest Spirits, and they become even more applicable. I tried thinking of the worst matchup possible for them, something like Empire full of 1+ Save Knightly Order, Demigryphs and Steam Tanks who are also Forces of Order, and realized they can still shoot at the inevitable buffcart and serve a functional role

They may not be the armor busting panacea we all hoped they'd be, but for players investing heavily in the shooting phase I think we'll see them play a key role.

[HERO]

Maybe I'm confused, you can take multiple Great Eagles or Tiranoc Chariots in a single squad? Like how Beastmen have Razorgors and Tomb Kings have their chariots, respectively? Or did I misread your post?

Nope, you have it right. Current indicators are that Tiranoc Chariots and Great Eagles can both be formed into units of multiple models in the new book.

Everything above looks good, HERO.

I might add that Maiden Guard are the only way to work Flaming Attacks into the High Elf shooting phase now, short of something outlandish like taking a BSB with Banner of the Eternal Flame in your Archer unit. For players who are really intent on getting the most out of their Core bowfire, Reaver Bow, Repeater Bolt Throwers, etc. then you not Maiden Guard to slice through Regeneration. A minimum unit is fairly cheap, can always double as a redirector, and stands a good chance of putting a wound on a typical Regenerating Monster profile. In such cases, they make all other shooting in the list twice as effective versus such targets, and I don't think there's ever a shortage of things the Maiden Guard will want to target. Factor in the effectiveness versus niche things like Ethereals and Forest Spirits, and they become even more applicable. I tried thinking of the worst matchup possible for them, something like Empire full of 1+ Save Knightly Order, Demigryphs and Steam Tanks who are also Forces of Order, and realized they can still shoot at the inevitable buffcart and serve a functional role

They may not be the armor busting panacea we all hoped they'd be, but for players investing heavily in the shooting phase I think we'll see them play a key role.

Vs. the same list that you're going to face as Warriors, and assuming generalship is the same. Which list do you think will do better? Same vs. 2x Terror/Blenderbus.

[Tethlis]

Vs. the same list that you're going to face as Warriors, and assuming generalship is the same. Which list do you think will do better? Same vs. 2x Terror/Blenderbus.

Which are you referring to? Between the list you posted and the list I posted?

[HERO]

Vs. the same list that you're going to face as Warriors, and assuming generalship is the same. Which list do you think will do better? Same vs. 2x Terror/Blenderbus.

Which are you referring to? Between the list you posted and the list I posted?

Yah, double Phoenix vs. the shooting heavy.

[Tethlis]

Good question. I think double Phoenixes could either be a huge advantage or a huge liability versus double Terrorgheists. They could get mangled and killed pretty badly if the Terrorgheists get close, or they could initiate combat and win pretty decisively if the VC player is careless. Toughness 6 fliers without heavy armor are something of a concern actually... They fall into the sweet spot where none of the Loremaster spells are a huge threat besides a boosted Burning Gaze. I've used massed bowfire to good effect against them in the past, and bolt throwers don't hurt either. Do you feel confident that you can initiate combat against them with the Phoenixes? If not, I think you'll struggle to catch them. I guess your best bet would is to insulate the Phoenixes during deployment, basically creating a barricade around them with your other units where the Terrorgheists can't land or get in range. This may give you the opportunity to kill one, or at least bang it up enough to hurt its scream, and then possibly give you a chance to get the Phoenixes into combat where they're reasonably safe. That's a lot of variables though, and I think it will come down to generalship of you versus your opponent.

In my latest builds, I've been thinking of dropping some archers to get 8 helms, and put my BSB on a horse to make a decent cav bus. It was my initial thought when I read through the new armylist, and I think it's a cheap way to effectively generate another combat threat since I have to pay for Core and a BSB anyway. It cuts down on my shooting somewhat, and it's very vulnerable to Gheists, but I think it can be treated in a similar way to the Phoenix as mentioned above. If I can keep it insulated from screams until a good charge opportunity opens up, or I can bang up the Terrorgheists enough, then I think it will pull a lot of weight. If it gets a charge off, the Tgheist is dead meat (ha, pun) and I also think it will stand up well to a Blenderlord when combined with the Phoenix debuff, mutual ASF to cancel re-rolls, etc. and at least be able to do some damage on the charge.

Once again though, that's an ideal situation that can't necessarily be implemented in practice. It'll boil down to generalship, dice, opportunity, etc.

If you can protect the Phoenixes and deliver them to favorable combats, I think you have the tools for the job though.

[HERO]

Disaster has struck. I will not be getting my book or minis anytime soon because of GW stock shortages in North America. I don't know what the case is, but it seems like the same thing happened with Tau. Damn the luck. Regardless, here's the final part of the book review as we close to release date. I'll probably release one more article tomorrow detailing army lists because I won't have my frozen turkeys to put on the table! FFFFFFFFFFFFF

Special Characters

Tyrion - 3/5
Well, I don't have much to say here. He's still really well-armored, fast as all hell and can take a lot of damage. The real solid thing is that he's now off a monster base and his rules have been cleared up. With a 18" IP, he's a pretty solid general on the battlefield. However, you're paying an awful a lot of points for someone who puts out barely enough damage over a S7 Prince. A little bit of a shame for the greatest warrior in the known world I'd say. Sure, he doesn't really die, Sunfang needs to do a little more than just shoot out a S4 breath attack once a game. D3 wounds or something man.

Teclis - 3.5/5
I am a bit sad. Why? Because my favorite SC in all of Warhammer have been nerfed into the dirt. I'll say it flat out: I'd rather see Teclis stay the same and be banned in every single comped game than to see him like this. Overall, not bad terrible because they lowered his price and made him a Lv.5 Wizard. His staff has completely changed so instead of being a one-man magic phase, he's now a second-string Slaan who becomes even punier after one round of good magic. His spell flexibility has changed a lot; gaining either Loremaster High Magic with +6 to cast due to Lileath's Blessing, or 8 spells from each of the 8 lores. Oh, and he also keeps his Scroll of Hoeth so you can have two scrolls in your army if you take him and a supporting mage. Overall, not bad.. but for 450 big ones, I will pass on Teclis in this edition.

Alith Anar - 3.5/5
For his new points cost of 250, Alith is worth looking at. His BS7 and S7 D3 wounds no AS Quick to Fire Moonbow at 36" is something really special. Shadow Crown gives him and his unit Swiftstride, Stone of Midnight provides Alith with a 4+ Ward and enemies shooting at the unit suffers -1 to hit. The only thing I wish is that they gave him a Great Weapon, or in fact, gave all Shadow Warriors Great Weapons. As fast as he is with that I9 ASF, he's still swinging with a regular hand weapon. Boo..

Eltharion the Grim - 3.5/5
Overall, not bad I'd say. Stormwing now comes with ASF and Eltharion is still a slightly buffed up Prince. S6 no AS from Fangsword, MR1 and counts as Lv.2 Wizard that can use any of the 8 lores. His helm gives both him +1AS and 5+ ward to him and Stormwing. Not the best, but definitely not the worst. Griffons have improved slightly because of their points and such, and Stormwing is definitely a stronger Griffon with his stats as well.

Korhil - 3/5
I can't say I'm too happy with what they did to Korhil. Everything stays the same minus the fact that he's now 10 points more expensive. I was really hoping he would get something to compensate the fact that he's a SC with only a 4+ AS and is supposed to be in close combat. I don't get this philosophy.. at least make him dangerous enough to threaten everything with HKB or give him a dodge save. Even with Stubborn, I can't justify ever taking him over someone more armored. A shame because I really like the model/character too.

Caradryan - 4/5
Saw a minor points decrease, a few nerfs, but generally makes up for it with the fact he can take a +1A Frostheart Phoenix named Ashtari as a mount. He's now MR1 but gains ItP and 4+ Ward via Witness to Destiny. His Halberd still kicks ass with D3 wounds S5 Flaming, but his suicide trick is now D3 wounds no AS instead of D6. I guess GW was tired of him purposely dying to a Chaos Lord and making back double his points. Regardless, his ability to take a Ashtari in the Hero slot makes him a great choice. With MR1 on Ashtari's 5++, we're looking at a solid 4++ vs. MMs.

Alarielle - 4.5/5
I'm going to flat out say it: She's really damn good. She gives the entire unit 5+ ward vs. non-magic attacks. Her entire unit is Immune to Fear and Terror and deal magical attacks. And she can mix and match her spells from Life, Light or High Magic. She still needs to roll for those spells. Let's face it, she has a bunch of other special rules that changes the army dynamics immensely. She unlocks a magical banner that gives spell cast from Lore of Light and Life +4 to cast. An item that gives +1 to hit on all shooting and CC for the remainder of the turn. Can once a game pop her staff to allow her to cast a spell she already cast that turn. And she heals a friendly character every one of her movement phases. Just loaded with rules, some for fluff, some for use, but all of which are all quite good. Shit, she even has HKB vs. Forces of Destruction with her beastly 1 attack. For a little more than an AM with Book of Hoeth, she's definitely the best SC in the book.

Magic Items

Blade of Leaping Gold - 1/5
Trash, really? You wasted one of our magic slots for this? At 70 points, I can't even buy any good combo pieces off it and take protection for my lord-level character. +3 attacks and 6s ignore armor, whatever man.

Star Lance - 4/5
For 30 points, this is a strong buy. The fact that you can use a GW after you charge is only icing on the cake. +3S no AS and you get your nice ASF re-rolls, this is a mounted Noble/Prince's dream weapon. Solid for the points and allows you to stack on more defensive gear. Something you actually need in today's meta.

Reaver Bow - 4/5
It's really cheap and it's good. Shoots from 30" away, is a +1S bow with Multiple Shots 3. Pop a Potion of Strength and have it it man. Everyone can be like Alith for a turn, sorta.

Shadow Armor - 1.5/5
Light armor sucks man. 5+ AS, Scouts, Strider. I'm really excited. Still better than Blade of Leaping Shit.

Armor of Caledor - 4/5
2+ AS, 6+ Ward, Fireborn 2+ ward vs. Fire. Not a bad item and it will see play on every single important walking dude. This gives us two 2+ AS to put on our guys, and arguably the BSB's/Loremaster's best friend. Solid all the way through.

Shield of the Mermrym - 3.5/5
Strong defensive choice, gives you a 4+ Parry and is dirt cheap. You can't use a 2H weapon with this, but if you're taking a combo piece like +3S Sword + this, it's not a bad idea. Allows you to equip things you otherwise wouldn't because it's a ridiculous way to offer a pseudo-ward in close combat.

Golden Crown of Atrazar - 4/5
I don't know about you guys, but I like this little piece. It's incredibly cheap and gives you a 2+ ward vs. the first wound taken. Great if you don't want to spend points on a more expensive ward, and allows you to escape KBs, multiple wounds or some other unforseen action on your mage for example. The price is the big seller here.

Moranion's Wayshard - 2/5
It's pretty expensive for something I'd rather see in the Wood Elves book. Gives a unit of 30 Spears or Archers Ambush and he must be in that unit. Sure, I guess you can do something crazy with it, but that demands that you do something crazy.

Khaine's Ring of Fury - 4/5
It's cheap, it's good, and it has Soul Quench Bound Level 3. A great offensive tool that when cast, activates the Shield of Saphery Lore Attribute. Sounds like a good deal man.

Gem of Sunfire - 1.5/5
A pretty limited once per game item. Sure, all of your flaming attacks (including your mount) does +1 to wound, but are you Tyrion? Or maybe someone who's in a unit with the Flaming Banner? This just screams Dragon Mage to me and you all know how I feel about that flying poopsicle.

Cloak of Beards - 2.5/5
First of all, why are you not +1AS? It gives you Fear, which is cool. Terror vs. Dwarfs, which is great, but I hate it when you hate on a particular enemy. In turn, Dwarfs gain Hatred vs. you because you're wearing his grandfather's scalp on your face. Seems a little mean when you can just challenge someone from the Dwarf army and if he's stupid enough to accept, at the start of the CC phase just roll a 4+ for each of his runic items to be destroyed. Sounds beardy. GET IT?

Book of Hoeth - 4.5/5
This is a really great item. You will see this on every single Loremaster or Archmage from now until the next book. It allows you re-roll a dice from each one of your casting and dispelling attempts. Do you know how many spells you can push out now and escape broken concentration at the same time? It's just insane how much versatility this item has. The best part is that you can fit this in with a 2+ AS on the Loremaster or 4+ Ward on the AM. Coincidence? I think not.

Banner of the World Dragon - 5/5
One of the best magic items in the game. Can be taken on all of our Elite choices pretty much and allow for absurd polar imbalances vs. particular armies (Daemons of Chaos). Your entire unit gains a 2+ ward vs. all magic spells, attacks and weapons. Yes, you can tank whatever magic weapon your opponent brings with even the puniest of Elves. It's extremely powerful vs. armies that have a lot of magic missiles, magic attacks and magic weapons, but it's pretty worthless if your opponent takes none of those. A poorly designed item I'd say, but it'll see play in almost army list that's not banned because of its points-efficiency and matchup potential.

[HERO]

Wanna hear something nuts?

I'm actually looking at Alith Anar a little closer. In a big unit of White Lions maybe? lol

[ItaliaDracula]

Wanna hear something nuts?

I'm actually looking at Alith Anar a little closer. In a big unit of White Lions maybe? lol

have a whitelion unit have charge 3D6 (sorry don't know the english term for it)
with a bolt thrower quick to fire BS 7 i like it

is gooood ;9

[HERO]

Note: In the case of -1 Articuno due to whatever comp, just use the points for another unit of Phoenix Guard.

In my example above, I have 155 points of 5x Dragon Princes with Musician and 240 points in the Phoenix. Dropping both would give me a 24x Phoenix Guard in Full Command. That's pretty tasty.

[RogueSun]

Wanna hear something nuts?

I'm actually looking at Alith Anar a little closer. In a big unit of White Lions maybe? lol

Yep. Was considering this too. His lack of armor will be somewhat of a concern, but he's just soooo cheap for what he provides. Give that unit the Banner of Swiftness and really take people off guard.

Do we know if Stormwing can be upgraded with the Devastating Charge/+1 Strength rule?

[HERO]

Wanna hear something nuts?

I'm actually looking at Alith Anar a little closer. In a big unit of White Lions maybe? lol

Yep. Was considering this too. His lack of armor will be somewhat of a concern, but he's just soooo cheap for what he provides. Give that unit the Banner of Swiftness and really take people off guard.

Do we know if Stormwing can be upgraded with the Devastating Charge/+1 Strength rule?

I don't think so. Stormwing does come with ASF but I haven't heard if he can actually be upgraded. Most character mounts cannot be upgraded and come with set abilities much like SCs in general.

[RogueSun]

I don't think so. Stormwing does come with ASF but I haven't heard if he can actually be upgraded. Most character mounts cannot be upgraded and come with set abilities much like SCs in general.

Yeah, I don't recall hearing that he could, but that seems so odd to me that they just wouldn't include it with him if Stormwing can't be upgraded. That means the Griffons nobles ride can actually hit harder than Stormwing, at least on the charge. If it turns out Stormwing can be upgraded or already has it, I think Eltharion will make a pretty solid Lord choice if you're looking for something mounted. His compromise in protection isn't too terrible and he gives you some more wizard levels to play with, which you usually have to sacrifice in a monster mounted Lord list.

He can also play the role of suedo Loremaster pretty well. One foot he'd be cheaper (just) than a fully kitted out Loremaster while still benefiting from ASF and 1 higher strength. He also brings higher WS and number of attacks, but again suffers in terms of protection. Not a terrible choice either with Stormwing or without, all things considered.

[Malcontent]

Lion Chariot - 3.5/5
I want to give these guys a 4, but I just can't. They went down in price sure, but the point decrease and Stubborn doesn't justify the fact that the White Lions on top lost ASF. If the chariot was T5 or the AS was 3+ or maybe even both, then these chariots would be quite nice. However, the fact that you're paying a fairly expensive price for a single chariot that has Stubborn but can't handle damage in return. I'm a little disappointed. Still a pretty solid choice with all things considered.

I picked up the army book today and the riders have ASF, it looks like this review might need to be changed.

[HERO]

Lion Chariot - 3.5/5
I want to give these guys a 4, but I just can't. They went down in price sure, but the point decrease and Stubborn doesn't justify the fact that the White Lions on top lost ASF. If the chariot was T5 or the AS was 3+ or maybe even both, then these chariots would be quite nice. However, the fact that you're paying a fairly expensive price for a single chariot that has Stubborn but can't handle damage in return. I'm a little disappointed. Still a pretty solid choice with all things considered.

I picked up the army book today and the riders have ASF, it looks like this review might need to be changed.

Or not, because the rider's ASF cancels with their ASL from GWs. I rephrased it though.

[HERO]

Quick update: I managed to play 2 games today with the new book and I'm going to post Battle Reports soon.

[boozecluez]

Hope you have tired out that Alith Anar white lion unit in your battle report ..was thinking about a gunline list yesterday when i got my book
With 4 RBT's , BSB with reaver bow, Alith Anar ,archers + reavers would be nasty to castle up and let them come at you

[HERO]

Hope you have tired out that Alith Anar white lion unit in your battle report ..was thinking about a gunline list yesterday when i got my book
With 4 RBT's , BSB with reaver bow, Alith Anar ,archers + reavers would be nasty to castle up and let them come at you

Sorry, didn't try it yet

I wrote up my "BRs" here:
http://lkhero.blogspot.com/2013/05/i-pl ... today.html

I tried pasting it over here but the formatting came out all sorts of crazy

[Learn2Eel]

I read through them, and was pleased to see that the new book seems to do really well even in these initial stages. Good stuff.

[HERO]

New list to try tomorrow:

2498
10 drops

LORDS
Lv.4 Archmage, High Magic = 285
Book of Hoeth, Crown

HEROES
BSB Noble, Dragon Prince = 161
Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone, PoFool

Lv.1 Mage, High Magic = 110
Scroll

CORE
30x Spearmen (FC, SoDiscipline) = 315
15x Archers, Mus = 160
14x Archers, Mus = 150

SPECIAL
27x White Lions (FC, BotWD) = 431
9x Dragon Princes (FC, CShield, BoEFlame) = 306

RARE
Frostheart Phoenix = 240
Frostheart Phoenix = 240
Great Eagle = 50
Great Eagle = 50

BotWD and the Eternal Flame might be flopped, we'll see.

On the subject of 2x Frostheart vs. 1-1 Frostheart/Flamespyre, I really think dual Frostheart is the way to do it. What happens if your only Frostheart gets killed? Suddenly, no more support creature. In short, eat moar

[Danidude]

Me and a firend of mine talked about using AM in a unit of WL's, giving him book and 4++. What we thought might be a good comobnation is also the anointed with this unit. Give him enchanted shield and SoM, now he packs 3+ 4++ and gives the entire unit a 6++, wicth is boosted by our high magic(Those sweet ward saves). I think this will be a nasty unit. This is achiveble in a 2200 point game, if your going bigger, you might even give the anointed dawnstone for rerolleble armor.

Thoughts?

[HERO]

Me and a firend of mine talked about using AM in a unit of WL's, giving him book and 4++. What we thought might be a good comobnation is also the anointed with this unit. Give him enchanted shield and SoM, now he packs 3+ 4++ and gives the entire unit a 6++, wicth is boosted by our high magic(Those sweet ward saves). I think this will be a nasty unit. This is achiveble in a 2200 point game, if your going bigger, you might even give the anointed dawnstone for rerolleble armor.

Thoughts?

I think it's a good start for sure. It definitely works.

A unit of WLs will be perfect as well, since the 6++ will be wasted on anyone else.

[jakshadow]

A couple of dumb questions - so apologies in advance....

Why the musicians on the Reavers? As fast cav cant they reform as often as they want anyways?

Is it totally outlandish to have the BoEF on the BSB? If he is in an archer bunker he is in the rear lines and it could make a big difference to a heavy shooting focused list. If things look sticky you can rush him into the unit with the AM for ward saves along with the BoTW so although asked he is less naked than previously.