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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:03 am 
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Foreword

Hi, and welcome to my guide for competitive High Elves play in 8th Ed. Please note that this is merely a guide and you can choose not to follow it if you don't want to. In this thread, you will find large amounts of information that has to do with min-maxing your Elven army to the extreme. I do not believe in cost ineffective units. Why? Because unlike the undead forces or horde units that our opponents can field, each and every Elven life is valuable and respected. I respect my army and so should you.

Please skip this thread if you're the weak of heart. This thread's purpose is to find answers on how to deal with other ridiculous lists. These lists include but is not limited to Ogre Irongut deathstars, Karl Franz on a Dragon w/ Dual Steam Tank, DE dual Hydra/Pendant Lords, Skaven magic Engineer spam dual Abom, and other atrocities you'd rather forget than face. The list goes on, so you must believe me when I say 8th Ed. is a very scary place to be fighting in. That is why in this thread, you'll see a large number of lists and tactics in an uncomped environment. I firmly believe in the notion of fighting fire with fire, but if these tools are not accessible to you for any reason, feel free to browse elsewhere.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:03 am 
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Lords and Heroes

Prince - 3.5/5
The first thing I have to say about the Prince is that I'm a little disappointed. While he got a slight points decrease, the 390 point Star Dragon is what's really off-putting. For 90 points less, we have access to the Moon Dragon which has a 6s statline. The big thing here is the points. When taking a Dragon Lord, you have to squeeze every little bit out of this guy and with the Star Dragon being so expensive, I'm not sure how I feel about having him in the list anymore. We'll talk about sample builds as we go along the week, but for now I'm looking at the Moon Dragon as a more cost-effective option. The main threat of cannons being able to bring down dragons also has me a bit worried. If dragons are not going to be effective, I'll sure as hell look into Cavalry Princes being the dominant option.

Anointed of Asuryan - 3/5
This guy is the guy to go to when fielding foot lists I'd say. He comes with 4+ Ward, MR2, ItP, gives his unit 6+ ward, and comes stock with Fear. His price is pretty good too, although he has worse leadership than a Prince and less attacks. The ability to mount a Phoenix is also pretty good, especially when you factor the built-in Ward save. MR2 gives him a 2++ vs. MM and the Phoenix gets a 3++. He's a definite contender for having 3x Ice Phoenixes in a list, or even competing with the Prince on Moon Dragon.

Loremaster - 4/5
Very solid, I really like him. His main function is to be a fighting Noble, being able to take a 2+ armor save while still retaining his ability to cast cheap signature spells. He's going to be a staple in every list that wants to mix the stats of a Noble with a strong, versatile casting mage. He puts supporting mages to shame because of his ability to mount armor, put out decent damage and spellsling at the same time. The price tag is a little high, but I think he's worth it every game.

Archmage - 5/5
Lv.4 every time. Especially with the new point cost, I see him with Book of Hoeth plus either 4+ Ward or Crown every single game. The same spell versatility makes him very appealing in magic-heavy lists, and with Book of Hoeth he can push out spells and dispels a lot easier. Personally, I'll be fielding him relatively cheap with Book, Crown and that's it. Push him back in the back row with a few characters and he'll be quite safe; especially if your unit will be fielding the Banner of the World Dragon. I plan on taking him with High Magic so I can utilize Blessing of Lileath as much as possible in combination with a unit of Phoenix Guard.

Noble - 4/5
Looking pretty fine here. Nothing has changed for him except the fact he lost a little bit of protection. BSBs will be mandatory in every army, so he goes perfectly with a Cavalry Prince when mounted, or traveling in an infantry army with 2+ AS. Having the opportunity to mount a Griffon is also pretty significant here. I'm not entirely convinced on the beast though mainly due to cannons, no save and a potential to be expensive depending on upgrades.

Sea Helm - 1.5/5
Not bad, a pretty decent option when in a unit of Sea Guard. Nice, fluffy, and offers Naval Discipline. He's a bit more expensive than a Noble, so that alone puts him in on the bottom of my unit bucket. The only real reason you'll use him vs. a cheaper Noble as a BSB is for Naval Discipline.. which is only really useful in a unit of Sea Guard. However, I guess you can take him on a Sky Cutter as well for that free 4+ Ward. Not sure how much benefit that'll give you though, but you will have a flying BSB.

Handmaiden of the Everqueen - 2/5
Used with the Everqueen, can be given Everqueen specific items that'll make Sisters of Averlorn more appealing. Not my cup of tea, but with the Bow of the Seafearer and Quick to Fire that she confers onto the unit, she can find some use in those kind of lists.

Mage - 4.5/5
Small, diverse, cheaper, and can take a scroll. Acts best as a scroll caddy and supporting caster. Also good in a Coven of Light because of the price.

Dragon Mage - 1/5
Even with Dragon Armor and the ability to take magical armors, I'm not sure how much I'll be looking into this guy. He lacks the flexibility of the other lores, fights to compete in points for the AM/Loremaster combo, and suffers the same problem as other Large Targets that could attract enemy fire. Overall, I'm not feeling this guy at all.

Tyrion - 3/5
Well, I don't have much to say here. He's still really well-armored, fast as all hell and can take a lot of damage. The real solid thing is that he's now off a monster base and his rules have been cleared up. With a 18" IP, he's a pretty solid general on the battlefield. However, you're paying an awful a lot of points for someone who puts out barely enough damage over a S7 Prince. A little bit of a shame for the greatest warrior in the known world I'd say. Sure, he doesn't really die, Sunfang needs to do a little more than just shoot out a S4 breath attack once a game. D3 wounds or something man.

Teclis - 3.5/5
I am a bit sad. Why? Because my favorite SC in all of Warhammer have been nerfed into the dirt. I'll say it flat out: I'd rather see Teclis stay the same and be banned in every single comped game than to see him like this. Overall, not bad terrible because they lowered his price and made him a Lv.5 Wizard. His staff has completely changed so instead of being a one-man magic phase, he's now a second-string Slaan who becomes even punier after one round of good magic. His spell flexibility has changed a lot; gaining either Loremaster High Magic with +6 to cast due to Lileath's Blessing, or 8 spells from each of the 8 lores. Oh, and he also keeps his Scroll of Hoeth so you can have two scrolls in your army if you take him and a supporting mage. Overall, not bad.. but for 450 big ones, I will pass on Teclis in this edition.

Alith Anar - 3.5/5
For his new points cost of 250, Alith is worth looking at. His BS7 and S7 D3 wounds no AS Quick to Fire Moonbow at 36" is something really special. Shadow Crown gives him and his unit Swiftstride, Stone of Midnight provides Alith with a 4+ Ward and enemies shooting at the unit suffers -1 to hit. The only thing I wish is that they gave him a Great Weapon, or in fact, gave all Shadow Warriors Great Weapons. As fast as he is with that I9 ASF, he's still swinging with a regular hand weapon. Boo..

Eltharion the Grim - 3/5
Overall, not bad I'd say. Stormwing now comes with ASF and Eltharion is still a slightly buffed up Prince. S6 no AS from Fangsword, MR1 and counts as Lv.2 Wizard that can use any of the 8 lores. His helm gives both him +1AS and 5+ ward to him and Stormwing. Not the best, but definitely not the worst. Griffons have improved slightly because of their points and such, and Stormwing is definitely a stronger Griffon with his stats as well.

Korhil - 3/5
I can't say I'm too happy with what they did to Korhil. Everything stays the same minus the fact that he's now 10 points more expensive. I was really hoping he would get something to compensate the fact that he's a SC with only a 4+ AS and is supposed to be in close combat. I don't get this philosophy.. at least make him dangerous enough to threaten everything with HKB or give him a dodge save. Even with Stubborn, I can't justify ever taking him over someone more armored. A shame because I really like the model/character too.

Caradryan - 4/5
Saw a minor points decrease, a few nerfs, but generally makes up for it with the fact he can take a +1A Frostheart Phoenix named Ashtari as a mount. He's now MR1 but gains ItP and 4+ Ward via Witness to Destiny. His Halberd still kicks ass with D3 wounds S5 Flaming, but his suicide trick is now D3 wounds no AS instead of D6. I guess GW was tired of him purposely dying to a Chaos Lord and making back double his points. Regardless, his ability to take a Ashtari in the Hero slot makes him a great choice. With MR1 on Ashtari's 5++, we're looking at a solid 4++ vs. MMs.

Alarielle - 4.5/5
I'm going to flat out say it: She's really damn good. She gives the entire unit 5+ ward vs. non-magic attacks. Her entire unit is Immune to Fear and Terror and deal magical attacks. And she can mix and match her spells from Life, Light or High Magic. She still needs to roll for those spells. Let's face it, she has a bunch of other special rules that changes the army dynamics immensely. She unlocks a magical banner that gives spell cast from Lore of Light and Life +4 to cast. An item that gives +1 to hit on all shooting and CC for the remainder of the turn. Can once a game pop her staff to allow her to cast a spell she already cast that turn. And she heals a friendly character every one of her movement phases. Just loaded with rules, some for fluff, some for use, but all of which are all quite good. Shit, she even has HKB vs. Forces of Destruction with her beastly 1 attack. For a little more than an AM with Book of Hoeth, she's definitely the best SC in the book.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:03 am 
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Units - Core, Specials, Rares

CORE

Spearmen - 3.5/5
Pretty solid option still. If anything, they are overlooked a lot because they're exactly the same as the last book. I've always liked Spears. They give a lot of bodies that absolutely shred other core-based infantry in the game and can be buffed to levels that upset a lot of people due to the amount of attacks they put out. Compared to similar Core, High Elf Spearmen are amazing. Not to mention they can take a magical banner while no one else in core can. Keep that in mind!

Archers - 4/5
Went down in points, cheap, and throws out a good amount of shots. With Martial Prowess now affecting Archers in 3-ranks, a unit of 5x3 lets loose 15 S3 shots from 30" away. This is a great way to clear enemy chaff and they're an absolute staple to the High Elf war machine. Always have some kind of archery in your army lists unless you're going for a pure melee approach.

Lothern Sea Guard - 3/5
These guys also went down a point and still retain the same function as before. Sadly, they can no longer take a magical banner and much like archers, cannot take the Banner of Eternal Flame to threaten regen units from far away. Honestly, LSG are a pretty decent unit. They double up on shooting and function like Spearmen once they reach close combat. You can feel comfortable with putting them in a unit of 6x5 and comfortably count 18+3+3 in terms of shots from 24" away while attacking back in 4 ranks in close combat. Due to their flexibility and points drop vs. the unchanged Spears, they're not a bad choice.

Ellyrion Reavers - 4/5
Take these guys in 5s and never look back. They are cheap, Fast, Vanguard cavalry which can shoot, block, obstruct charge lanes, and kill chaff. As solid as these guys are, I can't rank them above Archers. Archers gives you more shots, more bodies and can keep chaff without ever having to commit. Reavers, on the other hand, should be used like Eagles that travel on the ground. They're cheap enough that you can also employ double flee mechanics.

Silver Helms - 4/5
I graded these guys assuming you don't take them as a Prince bus. As a bus, I would probably give these guys the max. With Martial Prowess extending to the third rank, you can now take a decent sized cavalry bus that can chip in more damage than they did before. With the points of these guys coming out of Core, you can now run a Cavalry Prince with a lot less points commitment from the rest of the army. Any bit of 2+ armor in core is good, but Ithilmar Barding, ASF and Lances.

SPECIAL

Sword Masters of Hoeth - 2.5/5
I can't really say I like what they did with the SM. Taking away their re-rolls on Great Weapons while keeping all their other stats the same is really bad for them when Martial Prowess is factored. They will forever be used as MSU units. Being WS6 I5 and striking at I with 2A S5 is still good, but without their re-rolls they'll be missing a lot more. The points drop is the only thing that's giving them any validity as of now but I can't see them being used outside of pseudo detachment units. Take a unit that you know will hold Steadfast and then flank charge 5-7 of these the next round. Even without re-rolls, you'll still be able to add a good amount of combat res.

White Lions of Chrace - 4.5/5
These have always been solid units and with Martial Prowess, these will remain top dog. The reason why this is so is because they lose nothing with their 1 attack base unlike Sword Masters. WS5 S6 hits all the right targets and striking in 3 ranks allows them to actually deal more damage than their previous re-rolls. The delta for damage is definitely greater, but there's a chance you might fark your rolls. Stubborn is pretty king for an Elite unit and Lion Cloak protects them from getting shot. I can see a unit of 3x3 w/ Champ to be really popular. Cheap, tiny ass footprint, puts out high quality attacks, and doesn't die to a sneeze like Sword Masters.

Phoenix Guard - 4.5/5
Still rock solid units. Has Fear because they don't talk about the 4+ Ward is still there. They only got better because of their Martial Prowess extending to the third rank. This gives them more damage potential than they had last book while maintaining all the great things that made them a solid anvil. No Unbreakable means that every character can join them, and no change in points cost makes them outright better than they were before.

Dragon Princes - 4.5/5
I've always liked these guys and I like them even more now that they have improved in almost every way. They retain all their stats but their Dragon Armor now gives them 6+ Ward as default in addition to their 2+ Ward vs. Fire. Add on the fact they now move 9 because of Ithilmar Barding and are cheaper to boot, you're literally looking at a 9 point WS5 I6 2A S5 on the charge Elf with ASF. Why 9 points? Because Dragon Armor alone costs 20 points on a Prince. How's that for math? I'll probably take these guys in 5-6x and call it a day.

Shadow Warriors - 3/5
Scout Skirmishers who hate on Dark Elves, carry Long Bows and do their jobs well for the points they got decreased to. Overall, solid units but I see them as backseat riders compared to our other Elite infantry.

Tiranoc Chariots - 3/5
Much better than before, especially now that you can take them in a squadron of 1-3. Chariots have always been an odd thing with High Elves. They're flexible in that they can shoot, charge into combat, but can't really do all that damage outside for Impact Hits because they're still Elves. The chariot, however, does most of the heavy lifting but with their defensive stats, if they get stuck in combat, they're pretty much toast.

Lion Chariot - 3/5
I want to give these guys a 4, but I just can't. They went down in price sure, but the point decrease and Stubborn doesn't justify the fact that the White Lions on top lost re-rolls. If the chariot was T5 or the AS was 3+ or maybe even both, then these chariots would be quite nice. However, the fact that you're paying a fairly expensive price for a single chariot that has Stubborn but can't handle damage in return. I'm a little disappointed. Still a pretty solid choice with all things considered.

Skycutter Chariot - 2/5
First of all, the thing flies. The Eagle Eye Bolt Thrower isn't the best thing in the world because it only shoots from 24" at S5 D3 wounds no AS, but the fact that you get a movement penalty when shooting the thing is disappointing. Regardless, you're playing for a flying chariot that can negotiate the battlefield and apply constant threat. It's mobility will allow it to get those flank shots and the price tag on this bad boy is what's really helping its score out. The Warhawk pulling it so no slouch and the High Elves on top can still put out some decent damage when M10 S5 Impact hits gets in there on-demand. A good choice for sure, probably the best chariot in the arsenal.

RARE

Great Eagles - 4.5/5
The best re-director in the game for High Elves have not changed one bit. If anything, they just gave him more options than ever before, allowing you to take huge units of them due to 1+ and giving them all special abilities. Want some ASF for that Eagle? Why not. What about some Armor Piercing? We can do that too. Although the ASF is what's really going to be amazing, I'm not sure if I want to drop 10 points on something that's just going to annoy/redirect most of the time. I love these things, and so should you if you plan on playing High Elves. A lot of people argue that Ellyrion Reavers will replace the Great Eagle as redirectors, pfft, not unless they fly imo.

Flamespyre Phoenix - 3/5
Although I'd rather see more dragons flying around in High Elves, I can't say I'm disappointed with the Phoenixes. The Flamespyre Phoenix is a solid bird with decent stats and good abilities. His special rules are nice and so is his 2+ ward vs. Fire and ability to resurrect. I'd say he's one of the best designed monsters in the game with all things considered. He's a threat on the battlefield when flying over units, when in combat with units, and when he dies with a unit nearby, he's always a threat due to that 3-5 on the Phoenix Reborn (large blast S4 flaming) or if he just comes back to life! Great rules and balance on this unit that matches the fluff perfectly.

Frostheart Phoenix - 5/5
I'm not going to lie to you and say these guys are a little better. These guys are ridiculously good for their points because for 15pts more than a Flamespyre, you get +1WS/S/T/A/Ld. S6 and T6 is huge because it puts them in the sweet spot for damage and resilience. Combine this with the fact that you're flying around with a Ward save and this is pretty significant. Sure, you lose the ability to resurrect, but you gain something infinitely more worrisome for your opponent: Blizzard Aura. Blizzard Aura is absolutely huge: It's a meta-changer and one of the things that will carry the High Elves to victory on many battlefields. The ASL element of the aura is fantastic; stripping away ASF on blenderlords or other high-profile units, but it's the -S that really takes the cake. With the Frostheart in contact with an enemy unit, you're essentially looking at +1T High Elves with better armor saves (which negates the High Elves' only true weakness). Not to mention the bird himself is harder to wound with his virtual T7. Regardless of who you're pitting the bird against, I have high expectations for this unit changing the battlefield much more than any other unit in the book. Well, that and one more little thing we'll cover later.

Eagle Claw RBT - 4/5
Went down in points and you can still take 4 of these. You can either shoot a normal Bolt Thrower shot or choose to Volley with 6 shots at S4 AP. Overall, not a bad pick but I'd rather see these guys go down to 50. S6 shooting is powerful, but compared to a cannon for a few points more and it's not even close. Still good though, and will probably see play in more shooting-based armies.

Maiden Guard of Avelorn - 3.5/5
At first, I can't say this unit impressed me. Flaming, magical S4 shots sound great on paper, but they're expensive and die to a soft breeze much like Sword Masters. The key here is to not go too expensive on these girls but use them to deal damage and strip Regen. The 24" is a limitation, but the BS5 more than makes up for it. A unit of 15 will do a good job clearing up any chaff and put out good damage vs. Forces of Destruction with their -1AS. Not a bad unit, but they will take up points in your list so you have to be careful not go crazy. The fact that this unit has no Musician (and thus no Swift Reform) kills me inside.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:04 am 
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The White Tower of Hoeth

Welcome to the White Tower my young mage. This is where you will master your abilities in magic to decimate the enemies of Ulthuan.

Keep in mind I purposely skipped Fire and Heavens. Why? Because I don't believe they're powerful enough to be used competitively. With only 1-2 spells that stand out from each lore, I really don't care for them.

All Lores of Magic have their uses, but I like Shadow because it gives us the most coverage on our greatest weaknesses:
1. Opponents of higher toughness that we have trouble damaging - Withering.
2. Opponents that can damage us - Enfeeble + Miasma.
3. Opponents of high armor - Mindrazor.
4. Opponents of giant hordes - Miasma + Pit of Shades.
5. Opponents that just absolutely need to be killed - Mindrazor.

The one thing to take away from this is that magic effects and special rules can stack. Blizzard Aura from a Frostheart Phoenix will work perfectly with Enfeeble!

Lore of High Magic
Quote:
Shield of Saphery (Lore Attribute): Each time a spell is successfully cast with High Magic, the caster and his unit immediately gain +1 to their ward save to max of 3. If you don't have one, 6+. Stacks.

This is pretty decent since it gives our T3 5+ units a little extra protection. Works with all units that have a ward, Phoenix Guard should be damn happy with this one because 3+ ward saves are ridiculous.

Drain Magic (sig): Cast on 7+, friend or foe within 18", friendly augment, hex on enemy, all RIP spells affecting the unit are immediately dispelled, and affects of all other spells on the target unit immediately come to an end. Can be all units within 18" for 14+.

Great spell, easy to cast and gets rid of those annoying spells that can potentially do a lot of damage. Allows you to free up your dispel dice because you can just let a hex through if needed, dispel it on your turn and gain +1 to your ward save.

Soul Quench (sig): Cast on 8+, magical missile, 18", 2d6 s4 hits, or 4d6 s4 hits for 16+

A decent MM for below average range, but with good casting cost because you're casting with +5 anyway. The fact that it's a sig means you're never afraid of Ethereal chaff getting in your way.

1. Apotehosis: 5+ augment 18", Immediately regains 1 wound, 10+ for d3 wounds. Regardless of how many wounds gained, you also gain Fear.

The fact that we have fatties to heal now is makes this spell great. Good at gaining back those wounds on your AM should he take any damage, and can be used offensively and defensively with Fear.

2. Hand of Glory: 5+ Augment 18", Target's WS, BS, I or M is +d3. You can choose all for 10+.

Probably the best spell in the lore. Great pump spell that can provide your units with an edge instantly. WS5 units averages WS7 vs. WS3 troops; reducing their damage drastically. Pump your I to keep your ASF vs. I5-matching opponents like Chaos Warriors, extra BS for Archers and M for cavalry. This spell has it all.

3. Walk Between Worlds: Cast on 8+, 24" augment, Unit gains Ethereal and can immediately move to 10" as if it were remaining moves sub-phase. Can make it go 20" + Ethereal on a 16"

You can pull off a double whammy with the Flamespyre Phoenix with this spell. Allows you extra movement in a movement-based game. This is quite huge. Ethereal just makes sure you ignore any terrain or obstacles that gets in the way.

4. Tempest: 12+, direct damage. large round template within 30" of wiz, scatters d6. All models hit suffer s3 hits (models flying is s4). If a model suffers any unsaved wounds, it suffers -1 to all hit both shooting and cc. Those that do not use BS needs a 4+ to fire.

Not a bad spell with its casting cost. Low scatter range, good at killing fodder units and who knows, you might be able to peel some wounds on the bigger stuff. The fact that it's a large blast and inflicts -1 to the unit makes it an attractive choice.

5. Arcane Unforging: 13+, direct damage with 24" single enemy model. Suffers a wound on a dice greater than or equal to unmodified armor save. No AS allowed. Reveal to the caster all magic items, if you have more than one, randomly select one and its destroyed on 2+.

Destroying a magic item is pretty huge. The fact that it's destroy means that you'll pop a 2h weapon and the guy will be left swinging with his fists. Perfect for picking off BSBs with a chance for damage as well. Yup, still calling this Vaul's Unmaking.

6. Fiery Convocation: Cast on 19+, RIP, Direct damage 24". every unit takes S4 flaming, at the end of every subsequent magic phase, every model suffers S4 flaming.

The big spell in the lore means that if you don't dispel it, the entire unit burns to death at the end of every magic phase (you and your opponents). A huge spell that if let through, demands a dispel attempt of 19+ to remove as well. Due to its S4, it not only obliterates T3 units, but poses a threat to T4 units as well. I still call this Flames of the Phoenix.


Lore of Metal - The Wind of Chamon
Quote:
Lore Attribute: Metalshifting. Direct damage spells from the lore of metal have no strength value. Instead the unmodified armour save of the target is the required roll to wound. No armor saves allowed.

This basically means that if someone has a 2+ save, you will wound them on a 2+. If they have a 5+ save, you'll only wound them on a 5+, no armor saves allowed. This is extremely dangerous for the heavily armored units that S3 High Elves normally have trouble against. This is the reason why Metal compliments High Elves so much.

Basic Spell: Searing Doom: Magic Missile. D6 flaming hits, 24" range. No armor saves allowed. Increased to 2D6 hits when boosted.

You can no longer snipe the BSB or another model like last edition. Instead, you get to affect d6 or 2d6 models in the unit depending on the cast level. The smaller version of this spell is really easy to get off because its a basic spell, and the more powered up version is basically Spirit of the Forge.

1. Plague of Rust: Hex. 24" range. Target gets permanent, cumulative -1 to armour saves, 48" range scaled up.

Cheap hex from good range that nukes the target with a -1 permanent armor save. This is the spell that you would use on something like Dwarf Warriors, which are in that middle gap of average armor. Heavy armor + shield gives you a 4+ save and this spell will make them 5+. A lot easier to kill once they reach combat with our spears. Don't bother using this spell on something like knights unless they already reached combat. Nuke them with Searing Doom and use Plague of Rust once they're tarpitted to bypass their heavy armor.

2. Enchanted Blades of Aiban: Unit Buff range 24". One unit gets +1 to hit and armour piercing magical attacks until start of next turn. Applies to both shooting and close combat. Can be extended to 48" range scaled up.

This spell is amazing. Throw this on our Spears and we're basically looking at 21 attacks that hit on 3s with re-rolls and ASF, and have armor piercing. You factor this in with something like Plague of Rust and all of a sudden your opponent is taking a -2 modifier from Elves! Not to mention this spell is really easy to get off and it'll drastically increase the number of enemy armored units you kill in combat. Fantastic buff, arguably one of the best spells in the lore.

3. Glittering Robe: Unit Buff range 12", one unit is affected, can be expanded to all units within 12" at higher level. Unit gains a 5+ Scaly Skin save for one turn.

This is another great spell. Seeing a trend here? Glittering Robe basically gives your unit a 5+ scaly skin that stacks on top of the other armor bonuses you have. So your Sword Masters are only wearing Heavy Armor? Put this on them and all of a sudden they have 3+ armor saves. Spears and LSG become 3+ too. Put this on White Lions and they get a 1+ armor save vs. shooting (Lion Cloaks). A great armor buff that augments your weaker armor and can be cast from anywhere as long as your Wizard is in LoS and range.

4. Gehenna's Golden Hounds: Direct damage, range 12" which can be extended to 24" scaled up. A single enemy model (can be a character) suffers D6 hits. Characters can use "Look Out Sir!" to save them, rolling once for each hit.

Trash. Don't bother. LoS! only makes this spell worse. The only thing this is good for is switching out to Searing Doom.

5. Transmutation of Lead: Hex with a range of 24. Target gets -1 WS, BS and armour save for one turn. Range 48" scaled up.

The greater of the two Hex spells that reduces armor and WS for a turn. How will this work with the other spells you wonder? Say you already had Plague of Rust on a unit from previous rounds and you just cast Enchanted Blades on your Spears. You then cast this Hex which further reduces their armor save by one AND reduces their WS. If you're fighting WS4 units with your Spears, they suddenly turn into WS3. This means your Spears would normally hit on 3s, but with Enchanted Blades you hit on 2s with re-rolls with they have -3 armor (-1 from before, you have armor piercing and this is a further -1). All of a sudden, your opponents' "better" units are losing in combat with Spear Elves thanks to your Magic. Bravo!

6. Final Transmutation: Direct Damage. 18" range. The target is turned to gold; each model in the unit is removed from play on a 5+ (6+ if the model has multiple wounds). The secondary effect forces all units within 12" of the original target to test for stupidity at the start of their turn. 24" range scaled up.

Oooo.. shiny things. It's pretty difficult to snipe off a character with this since you need 6s, but on a 5+, you remove the enemy model from play. No exceptions (no wards, regens, anything). This is good on something like enemy Phoenix Guard or a impossibly difficult unit with MR. But doesn't MR give you a ward save vs. direct damage? Yeah it does, but too bad this ignores all saves of any kind. Your models are simply removed from the table. Bye!


Lore of Life - The Wind of Ghyran
Quote:
Lore Attribute: Lifebloom. Every time the caster successfully casts a spell from the Lore of Life he can restore a wound to one model within 12”

Most of these spells are pretty easy to get off, so you'll heal someone in your army everytime you get it off. Great if you have a multi-wound character or Dragon to keep 'em trucking.

Basic Spell: Earth Blood: Wizard and unit gets regeneration 5+ for one turn.

Your basic spell gives one of your units 5+ regen, which is pretty much equal to ward saves outside of flaming attacks. Imagine you take this Lore on one of your mages (a big mage) and a supporting High Magic Lv.1-2. You can have this and Shield of Saphery stacking. That's pretty awesome.

1: Awakening of the Wood: Magic missile. 1d6 str4 hit to a unit within 18" of a wood. Or 2d6 strength 5 hits to a unit partially or wholly within it.

Since there's so much terrain on the map now, this can cause some serious problems to those in or nearby trees on the map. Keep in mind that this only effects the trees/forests/woods (hence the wood part) and is thereby useless in a heavily urbanized map.

2: Flesh to Stone: Unit Buff. +2 Toughness to one unit within 12”.

Toughness 5 Elves. Is there anything else that should be said?

3: Throne of Vines: Caster Buff. If this is successfully cast it increases the effect of other lore of life spells made by the caster:
Ignore miscasts on 2+.
Earthblood is 4+
Awakening of the Wood is +1S
Flesh to Stone is +4T
Regrowth restores d6+1
Shield of thorns is S4

Now this is the spell that everyone's talking about. When you get this spell off (and it's cheap, like 8+), it remains in play and your caster is forever augmented by its effects. Not only do you get to ignore miscasts on a 2+ now, all your other spells are increased in effectiveness. Awakening of the Wood gets really angry, Flesh to Stone becomes +4T instead of +2T (wtf T7 Elves really?) and everything else gets a boost. This should be cast on turn 1 and upheld as long as you can. It's really that good.

4: Shield of Thorns: Unit Buff. Remains in play, friendly unit does 2d6 str3 hits on a enemy unit engaged in combat with it during the magic phase. 18" range.

Unit buff, Remains in play. Cast this on a unit that's going to be seeing combat and you're going to be generating a lot more kills. Good spell, should be used on any infantry that's capable of holding the line. White Lions come in mind with their Stubborn.

5: Regrowth. Unit Buff. One unit regains D3+1 wounds/models, just like Invocation (champ first, then musician/standard, then rank and file. Characters are selected separately) Cavalry take 2 wounds to heal. 12" range.

Now everyone gets to be undead! You can respawn your own dudes with this ability and it'll make killing Phoenix Guard much more painful. With Throne of Vines, you can bring back D6+1 models a turn, so that's at least 2 Phoenix Guard per turn. Also remember that when this spell goes off, Lifebloom also procs so you can multi-heal characters if they're in the same unit. Very useful when bringing back a near-dead fighting Prince, or someone who has just used the Talisman of Loec.

6: The Dwellers Below: Direct Damage. All models in an enemy unit within 12" take a strength test or die with no saves allowed. Boost for more range.. yay.

Now this is funny. Imagine the weirdest and vilest things you can think of popping out of the ground and dragging your ass to hell. That's pretty much what this spell is. Cast this on a unit like enemy Phoenix Guard, Black Guard, you name it. Anything that's S3 will FEAR this spell so much it'll be ridiculous. Strength test or die means that S3 lords and heroes will regret ever being in a unit that they thought can keep them safe. Remember: No saves of any kind. Once you fail, you're dead.


Lore of Shadow - The Wind of Ulgu (Recommended)
Quote:
Lore Attribute: Smoke and Mirrors. After the wizard successfully casts a spell, he may switch places with another friendly character of the same unit type within 18".

Basically allows you to play hop-scotch with one of your other characters in the army. With so many hexes at your disposal, you can easily prevent enemies from ganking your Wizard while maintaining his debuffs on the opposing army.

Basic Spell: Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma: Pick one enemy unit within 18 inches. Reduce one of their WS, BS , I or M of your choice by D3. The scaled up version reduces all of the above (roll the D3 only once).

The basic spell is very good because it gives you a lot of options. Nerfing their ability to move, shoot and attack back increases your tactical diversity while decreasing his. At first you might wonder if reducing a units' Initiative is worth it because our entire army is already I5 and ASF, but keep reading and you'll see why this will be worth it. The scaled up version is for units that do all 3; Wood Elves come to mind.

1. Steed of Shadows: Character buff. One friendly character within 12" can make a flying move as if in the remaining moves phase.

Not really interested in this spell. I guess it's good if you want to catapult Korhil into your opponents General or something. In fact, that would be pretty funny.

2. Enfeebling Foe: Hex. Pick an enemy unit within 18" (powered up at +3 to cast 36") reduce their Strength by D3. Remains In Play. To a minimum of 1.

A hex that RIPs is extremely strong against units that rely on strength to their damage. Anything holding Great Weapons or have naturally high strength (like Trolls/Monsters) will take a serious hit to their combat potential. Any unit carrying great weapons or have a high strength value typically strike after you, giving you the ability to dispatch them without fear of significant retaliation.

3. Withering: Hex. As above but T rather than S and 3 higher to cast.

I think this hex is a lot stronger for someone like Elves. Since we typically need 4s or 5s to wound most things, reducing someones toughness is absolutely huge. It allows us to wound a lot easier and with our relatively high WS, I, ASF and ranks, we'll get in plenty of wounds that'll dispatch the high T, low armor hordes a lot easier (Black Orks for example).

4. Penumbral Pendulum: Direct Damage. Draw a line 6D6" from the caster (multiplied by 2 for the powered up version) everyone touched by it must pass an I test or suffer a S10 hit D3 wounds.

This is pretty funny. Imagine a giant Pendulum swinging through the enemy ranks and whoever fails at dodgeball gets hit in the face. S10, D3 wounds means that anyone hit by it is taking a ward save or potentially dying. This spell is pretty medicore because of the random range, but you can always use it to swing indirectly in the direction of an enemy character if he's ever missing his LOS! rule or something.

5. Pit of Shades: Magical Vortex. Place a small template within 24" of the caster then scatter D6". Enemies must pass an I test or be removed from play if touched. The scaled up version uses the large template and scatters 2D6".

So remember that basic spell that reduces I? Most people would let that go thinking it'll last for a turn and he's not in combat. Pit of Shades makes them think again if they know about it, or teach them a lesson they'll never forget if they don't. Imagine your Elves get their I reduced to 2 from 5 because you rolled a 3 for the d3. Now you drop a Pit of Shades on them and Elves are dying on a 3+. Against armies like Dwarves or Lizardman, you're basically telling them to pass on a 1 or die. With no partials now, if this thing rolls a hit, that entire unit is falling to their DOOM! (and yes, the capitalized DOOM is in the rulebook). Another one of those you fail, you lose kind of spells. Notice a trend here again? haha.

6. Okkam's Mindrazor: Okkam's Mindrazor is an augment spell with a range of 18" and lasts until the start of the caster's next magic phase. Models in the target unit use their Leadership instead of Strength when rolling to wound with all close combat attacks whilst the spell remains in effect (any strength bonuses from weapons are ignored). The Wizard can choose to extend the range of this spell to 36". If he does so, the casting value of Okkam's Mindrazor is increased to 21+.

This spell does count armor modifiers when using the strength value. S8 Spears and S9 Dragon Princes will maul most things in combat through sheer amount of wounds and will completely dominate things like T5 or T6 units that you would never be able to touch. Sure, you won't get the bonus from lances or great weapons, but the raw strength value of Ld. 8 and 9 is -5 and -6. 21 WS4 I5 ASF attacks at S8 and re-rolls before any of those get to swing will pretty much destroy anything it touches.


Lore of Light - The Wind of Hysh
Quote:
Lore Attribute: Exorcism. If targeted on a undead or daemonic unit, spells from the lore of light deal an additional D6 hits.

Lore of Light has always been the lore that saved us from the damnation that is undead and daemons. Exorcism is testament to such claims. The extra d6 might not seem like much, but once you go down the tree and look at its other spells, you'll see that it compliments them perfectly. The only thing that puts me off a little about this particular attribute is that it only benefits you vs. undead and daemons and no one else.

Basic Spell: Shem's Burning Gaze: Magic Missile. D6 S4 hits to a unit within 24", causing flaming attacks. The scaled up version is 48" range and S 6.

For dirt cheap, you get 2d6 S4 missiles vs undead and daemons and it negates their regeneration. Really craps all over the Drakenhof Banner and other forms of regen. 48" and S6 is also pretty solid because it can reach across the map and hit like a truck. Not convinced that this is cost effective vs anything else outside of the undead and daemons.

1: Pha's Protection: Unit Buff. Affects one friendly unit within 12", all to hit rolls against this unit have a -1 modifier. All auto-attacks or auto-hits have to roll a 4+ or are wasted. May be extended to all units in 12"

Great against units with higher weapon skill than you. Anything that prevents them from hitting makes your units more survivable. Auto-attacks like slam attacks from big bad monsters and Destroyer of Eternities have to make a 4+ or miss all together. Keep in mind this also applies to temple weapons or indirect weapons such as Stone Throwers, breath weapons and cannons. It's a great way to keep you alive when facing these type of things as well as keeping you alive in close combat.

2: Speed of Light: Unit Buff. Choose one unit within 24". It has Weapon Skill 10 and Initiative 10. Extend this to all units within 12" with 16+.

Now here's a good spell. At first you might think High Elves don't need I10 or WS10. Let me ask you this: Would you like to hit everything in the game on 3s (save a Bloodthirster)? Would you like them to hit you on 5s? (WS4 and below) And how does it feel to win combat every time vs. I6 Black Guard? These are the things that come into effect when you cast Speed of Light on one of your units. WS10 not only allows you to hit more frequently, but it makes hitting you a nightmare. Stack this ontop of Pha's Protection and just laugh at WS3-4 troops needing 6s to hit your Elves in close combat. This also makes superior fighters such as heroes and lords hit regular troops on a 4 rather than 3. Saves you casualties all around for dirt cheap.

3: Light of Battle: Unit Buff. Rally 1 fleeing unit. Targeted unit automatically passes all Leadership tests until casters next magic phase.

Not only does this rally the unit it targets, but basically ensures your unit is unbreakable. Passing all leadership tests means it's not going anywhere vs. anything. If you need something to stay and hold the line while the rest of your units move into a game winning position, this is the spell to cast. Don't forget about this spell! It makes the impossible possible. Scenario: Your Spears are going to get murdered this turn but you need them to hold at all costs. Next turn, you flank charge and kill everything that's stuck in combat with them. This is the only spell in the game that makes that happen.

4: Net of Amyntok: Hex. 24" range. Targeted enemy unit has to pass a Strength test for each action they want to take (move, shoot, cast spells, pursue, flee, strike in cc, etc.) If they fail they may not perform the intended action and suffer D6 S4 hits instead. Lasts until casters next magic phase. 48" range scaled up.

Imagine casting this on something like Daemonettes. Everytime they do something they have a 50% chance of taking 2d6 S4 hits in the face. Imagine again that you're casting on Dark Riders, a unit of Spearmen who are cannon fodder for that daggered Lv.4, or any unit that relies on actively moving and preforming actions (like 90% of the skirmishers and light cav in the game). Remember to keep an eye on enemy Elves with their Lv.4 Archmage sitting there ready to cast next turn. Yeah, this spell is for them. Enjoy.

5: Banishment: Direct Damage. 12" range. Deals 2D6 S4 hits, against which all successful Ward saves must be re-rolled. For each wizard other than the caster using the lore of light within 12", the strength is increased by 1. 48" range scaled up.

Now this spell just get silly vs. Daemons or Undead. If you take something like a Lv.1 Caddy, a Loremaster, a Lv.4, you're looking at 3d6 S6 hits at the target unit with re-rolls to ward saves. This spell is also quite excellent against enemy Phoenix Guard since they're mainly reliant on their 4+ wards. Quite situational and quite fluffy, but in all, your bread and butter vs. a lot of stuff. It's one of those must dispel spells.

6: Birona's Timewarp: Unit Buff. Targeted friendly unit doubles its movement characteristic, increases its Attacks by 1 and gains the ASF special rule until casters next magic phase. The scaled up version is for all friendly units within 12"

Great spell. Solid augument and the buffed up version everything within 12" gets ASF (including our Eagles, Lions and Dragons), everything gets an extra attack and everything doubles its movement. Remember, use this one turn and watch the fireworks happen next turn. Our basic infantry charges an average of 17". Our Dragon Princes will happily charge 23" and deliver an insane amount of attacks. Our entire army is fast as lightning, buck as hell and re-rolls to hit with ASF.


Lore of Death - The Wind of Shyish
Quote:
Lore Attribute: Life Leeching. For each casualty caused by lore of death spells, roll a D6. On a roll of 5+ you are granted an additional power dice.

The more you kill, the more chances you'll have at casting more spells. Works best with Purple Sun because the kills that thing generates can potentially make up for its casting cost entirely plus more.

Basic Spell: Spirit Leech. Direct damage, 12" range. Nominate a model. Caster and Target roll 1D6 and add their unmodified leadership. For each point the caster's result exceeds the targets result it suffers 1 wound with no armour save allowed. The scaled up version has an increased range.

This is pretty much Mind War in Fantasy. You and the other dude roll off basically. Winner takes all.

1: Aspect of the Dreadknight. Unit Buff, 24 " range. Targeted unit causes fear. Caster may decide to make it cause Terror for a higher casting value.

Not as powerful as it was last edition, but since it's extremely cheap, you can cast it on something like Dragon Princes and charge them towards the enemy. Feel free to cast this on anything if you have enough dice left for it. Having some fear is better than no fear. Now I'm not sure if casting this on another unit that already has Fear will cause them to cause Terror. 7th Ed. had the spell that worked in the same way but I forgot what the 8th Ed one said exactly. Does anyone know? If that's the case, it would be great on something like Phoenix Guard.

2: Caress of Laniph. Direct damage, 12" range. Nominate 1 target model. Roll 2D6 and subtract the target's Strength. The result equals the number of hits the target takes, wounding on 4+ and ignoring armour saves. The scaled up version is range 24".

A cheap method of picking off enemy BSBs, heroes or even Lords. Something like this can easily ruin Teclis' day or kill any Elf hero with good enough rolling. The 4+ wounds is quite a gamble, but it's cheap enough that you can snipe that Ring of Hotek or any other model that's causing you some grief. Things like BSBs come to mind.. or anything that's expensive really.

3: Soulblight. Hex, 24 " range. Targeted unit suffers a -1 strength and toughness. The scaled up version is ALL enemy units within 24". Lasts 1 turn.

Not only does this make the enemy unit susceptible to your attacks but it also makes them incapable of dealing damage. Since this spell has a pretty fair price and good range, it should be cast on any unit that you feel can need a debuff. When in doubt, go crazy and nerf his entire army. This is a very solid debuff and there's almost no circumstance that's holding you back from weakening him.

4: Doom and Darkness. Hex. Remains in play, 24 " range. Targeted unit suffers -3 Leadership. The scaled up version is 48" range.

Since RIP stays in play and allows you to cast afterwards, all RIP spells have gotten better. Doom and Darkness is one of those spells where you cast as soon as you can and force him to dispel. -3 Leadership is absolutely huge. Fear checks (Aspect of the Dreadknight anyone?), Panic tests, break tests, Spirit Leech.. the list goes on. This is one of those spells that your opponent will be wise to get rid of if he knows what's good for him.

5: Fate of Bjuna. Direct damage, 12" range. Nominate 1 model. Roll 2D6 and substract the target's toughness. The result equals the number of hits the target suffers, wounding on 2+ and ignoring Armour saves. Should the target survive, it suffers stupidity for the rest of the game.

You get this off on Teclis and he's done basically. This is basically the same as Caress but a hell of a lot deadlier. With this spell, you can essentially pick off 2 key models a turn between Fate and Caress. Stupidity for the rest of the game is also extremely annoying. If he's effected by Doom and Darkness, it'll be quite hysterical when your opponents most powerful Wizard won't be able to get his spells off (assuming he survives) or attempts to solo your army on foot.

6: The Purple Sun of Xereus. Remains in play. The Purple Sun is a magical vortex which uses the small round template. Once the template is placed, the player then nominates the direction in which the Purple Sun will move. To determine how many inches the template moves, roll the artillery dice & multiply the result by 3. Any model touched by the template must pass an initiative test or be slain outright with no saves of any kind allowed. If the result on the artillery dice is a misfire, center the template on the caster and roll the scatter dice and a D6. The template moves the number of inches equal to the result of the D6, in the direction shown on the scatter dice (if you roll a Hit, use the little arrow shown on the Hit symbol). In either event, in subsequent turns the Purple Sun moves in a random direction and moves a number of inches equal to the roll of an artillery dice. If a Misfire is rolled in subsequent turns, the Purple Sun collapses in on itself and is removed. A particularly brave wizard can infuse the Purple Sun of Xereus with even more power, so that it uses the large round template instead. If he does so, the casting value is 25+.

Quite possibly the most complicated spell ever written. You get this off, throw it their way and watch the sweat beads start pouring. It will rampage through his entire army and turn everything into amethyst statues. Lizardman, Dwarves, any army with low initiative will absolutely cower at the thought of such a thing. Large template, go big or go home type of spell. Good thing for us that our entire army fails on a 6.. but even still, you don't want too many models taking these kind of tests. Simply put: If you have I3 and lower and this thing is coming towards you, you have better make some above average rolls.


Lore of Beasts - The Wind of Ghur
Quote:
Lore Attribute: Wildheart. If targeted on cavalry, beasts, monstrous cavalry, monstrous beasts (razorgor, giant eagles etc), chariots, Monsters, or any unit from WA: Beastmen, the wizard gains an additional + 1 to cast.

If you have a good amount of beast-type units in your army (Eagles, Lion Chariots, Dragon Princes), this attribute makes it so you can get those spells off reliably. Keep in mind that if you take a Book of Ashur on your Archmage, he can get a +6 to cast on your Dragon Princes or HIS Dragons. Keep this in mind at all times!

Basic Spell: Wyssans Wildform: Unit Buff. +1 Strength and Toughness. Scaled up version 24" range.

Beautiful spell. This is a spell worthy of a Lv.1 Mage even if his sole purpose is to cast this. +1S and +1T gives you the offensive and defensive value needed to deal and sustain damage. There's nothing else to say. Being the basic spell, this is extremely rewarding. Play this in combination with a Lv.4 Archmage using something like Lore of Metal or Shadow to deal ridiculous amounts of damage to units you wouldn't otherwise touch.

1. Flock of Doom: Magic Missile. 24" range. Deals 2D6 S2 hits. Scaled up version 48" range.

Terribad. Quite possibly the worst spell I've ever seen. Was this copied incorrectly lol? Switch for the basic as soon as you can.

2. Pann's Impenetrable Pelt: Character/ Caster Buff. 12 " Range. May be targeted on any character, or the wizard himself. Target gains +3 toughness. May be expanded to affect all friendly characters within 12 ".

If your army runs a Prince or Noble on foot that's a combat winner, this spell will make him even more of a winner. Can you imagine a T6 Korhil slashing faces and laughing at others while they try to damage him? I don't even want to think about the nightmares you'll cause people by putting this on Caradryan. As if that guy needed 3 extra toughness to be a nuisance.

3. Amber Spear: Magic Missile. 24 " range. Resolved like the hit from a bolt thrower. May be boosted to gain S10 and causing D6 wounds.

Remember when you could use Beast Cowers and stop a Dragon dead in its tracks? How about you just kill the Dragon outright with S10 and D6 wounds stead? This spell gives you the ability to do so if you wanted. More on the lines of Hunter's Spear but gives you that extra flexibility of more damage if you wanted.

4. Curse of Anrahir: Hex. 36" range. Targeted unit suffers -1 to hit (melee and ranged). Targeted unit treats any terrain as dangerous terrain, and suffers a wound on a roll of 1 and 2, not only 1. Scaled up version 72" range.

Good when used on a map with a healthy amount of terrain as it's likely to stop cavalry attempts to charge through terrain dead in its tracks. The same applies to Chariots who would rather not risk d6 wounds on a 1/3 chance. The -1 to hit that applies to both melee and ranged and its excellent 36" of reach is just wonderful. One of those spells that disrupts all kinds of stuff at long range and force your opponents' into preforming actions he would otherwise not.

5. Savage Beast of Horros: Character Buff. 12" range. Targeted friendly Character gains +3 attacks and +3 Strength until the start of the next magic phase. May be expanded to affect all friendly characters within 12".

You cast it, your combat characters go insane and start smashing faces. As if the T6 Korhil wasn't bad enough before, imagine him now with S9 Killing Blow and 6 attacks with re-rolls to hit. Things get quite ridiculous when you have Korhil taking skulls better than Skulltaker. This spell is good if you have multiple characters in your army that you want to see rip face.

6. Transformation of Kadon. Character Buff. Remains in Play. The caster BECOMES the creature, not summoned on any board edge etc. Transforms the Caster into 1 of three lesser Creatures. Can be boosted to become a larger, more powerful creature.

Becomes the Hydra (similar to DE one), Black Dragon (with Moon Dragon Stats), or a Manticore on one casting roll. Becomes the Greater Fire Dragon or Mountain Chimera when boosted.

Mountain Chimera
S7 T7 W10, Fly, 4D6 attacks! Mage has to be on foot.

Greater Fire Dragon
WS8 S8 T8 W8 A8 Ld9, breathweapon S5, scaly skin 2+, terror, fly. mage has to be on foot.

Any lost Wounds are transferred to the new form (so, if the dragon lost 3 wounds, and the wizard is than transformed back, he would be most probably dead). The Character may not use any wargear nor does he have any benefit from it, and may not cast any spells at the time. He keeps all his special rules, though. So a High Elf would transform into a ASF Chimera for instance.

The big bad spell that everyone's talking about. Oh hey! Let's take our AM and throw as many dice as we can and see what happens! This spell is quite.. erm.. interesting I mean, just look at the stats of the Mountain Chimera and the Greater Fire Dragon. If you want Teclis or a Level 4 to turn into a 600+ point Dragon, then sure go ahead and do it! Just keep in mind that those type of creatures are more likely to die now because of all the instant death stuff, TLoS, everything wounds on 6s, and indirect cannons that deal d6 wounds and require no guess range. Also keep in mind that if you fly your arrogant self up the field and get dispelled out of dragon form, then it'll be lol times for you. Use with caution!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:04 am 
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Magic Combos

In this section, I'll list the multiple ways to use specific Lores in conjunction with our units. Some Lores of Magic are flexible and unique, while some are more focused on specific strategies and units to make them work. Either way, you'll find use of them here.

There are two styles of magic that exist for High Elves in my opinion: Balanced and Specific.

Balanced Lores provide buffs and hexes that cover a large area of High Elf weaknesses. These lores include High Magic, Lore of Metal, Shadow, and Light. Specific Lores depend on certain army builds to bring out their true potential. These Lores include Life, Death and Beasts. I'll explain more below.

High Magic - Balanced
The new lore is looking to be quite solid. Lots of balanced stuff here and lots of synergy with our army. The lore attribute is pretty useful, but the best thing about the lore is its flexibility. You get magic missiles, healing, a solid augment, an aoe-pumpable dispel, a more powerful version of Flames of the Phoenix, and solid magic item removal that also damages. Just watch out for the fact that a good number of your spells are Direct Damage. This means it's probably best to stay back, play defensive and allow the magic to do its work before you go in for the killing blow.

Lore of Shadow - Balanced
Our most powerful lore in my opinion. It's almost as if this Lore was designed with High Elves in mind because it compliments our army perfectly:
1. Elite troops with high WS and I can be dealt with Miasma.
2. High armor troops can be destroyed by Mindrazor.
3. High strength can be robbed of their power with Enfeeble.
4. High toughness units can be dispatched easier with Withering on them.
5. Expensive, multi-wound models with low I can be destroyed with Pit of Shades.

I highly recommend this Lore as your go to lore for balanced play.

Lore of Light - Balanced
This is also a very balanced Lore and very powerful against the Undead. In a Coven of Light (S6+ Banishment), you are equally effective vs. all kinds of enemies. Army-wide Pha's Illumination and Speed of Light makes your entire army WS10 I10 and -1 to hit. This gives you fantastic combat potential and great protection vs. melee and shooting alike. Timewarp also allows your army to surge forward and get into combat insanely early. Once they're in combat, the army-wide buffs allow you to win combat and take less casualties. All your units will hit things on 3s with re-rolls and you'll most likely be hit on 6s. If you decide to go Light, having a Lv.1 Wizard with Light is also suggested. This gives you the ability to inflict fantastic damage with Burning Gaze and Banishment for very low casting values. As for most balanced Lores, feel free to take whatever.

Lore of Life - Specific
I really like this Lore and I almost placed it in the balanced section, but I want to highlight some key builds that I like a lot. For one, Dwellers is a no brainer for most players: It picks off characters, completely wrecks enemies with Elf-stats and destroys entire units of Skaven. Throw dice at a large target with low S and watch it disappear from the game: Cheesy archer spam builds beware! This, is a very defensive Lore for the most part. You have Regen, protection from Miscast, and awesome +4 Toughness to any unit of choice. A lot of cheap spells here that you can push really easy with Book of Hoeth. Even if you don't get off Throne of Vines, you're still looking at really solid spells can add to the battle at hand. With the ability to heal your Phoenixes much better than High Magic, this lore looks to be quite promising in the new book.

Lore of Metal - Specific
This Lore gives you the power to break through armored units as they were butter. If you knew you were going against an army with multiple, heavily-armored targets such as Brettonian Knights, this Lore is fantastic. Another great thing about Lore of Metal is the army-wide 5+ Scaly Skin. This makes your Light Armor, Shield Spearmen pack on a 3+ armor save. Heavy armor units such as White Lions, Sword Masters and Phoenix Guard also share that lovely 3+. With this in mind, I want to talk about a very specific spell and army-build: A large unit of killy units with Enchanted Blades of Aiban absolutely annihilate things in combat. Our high WS combined with ASF allows us to throw out much more damage than anticipated with this lore.

Lore of Death - Specific
For this Lore, you mainly want to focus on the destructive capabilities of character sniping. These spells allow you to pick out BSBs, Generals and other important targets that could ruin the opposing army. VC Generals, TK Hierophants, Bretonnian BSBs, the list goes on. It goes without saying that the army-wide -1S and T allow your troops to inflict more damage and take less in return. Lastly, we have Purple Sun. That thing just embarrasses Lizardmen, certain undead armies and Dwarfs.

Lore of Beast - Specific
If the base unit spell for +1S +1T, the +3T to all characters in 12" is also pretty awesome. Unlike the Lore of Life though, this Lore focuses a lot on damage from characters than defense. Don't get me wrong, Curse of Anraheir can still hex someone down to -1 to hit. Combine this with tough Elven warriors and things look a lot brighter. Take what you would normally take and spam Wyssan's Wildform on everything. Then walk up a bunch of Princes and Nobles with Great Weapons and hit Savage Beast of Horrors. Can you imagine the amount of carnage you can inflict with multiple characters wielding +3S and +3 attacks? Overall, if you like buffing your characters, this is the lore to do it.

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Last edited by HERO on Mon May 13, 2013 6:04 am, edited 16 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:04 am 
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List Building 101

The first thing I like to do when building an army is forming a "unit bucket". You take all the units that you enjoy and separate them into two piles: Competitive and non-competitive. Competitive units will be those units in the book that are points-efficient, hard-counters, or is just really good. The non-competitive ones are the ones you can play for fun vs. casual friends. Keep in mind that yours might be totally different than mine and that's OK.

Here is my competitive unit bucket:
Prince
Anointed of Asuryan
Loremaster
Archmage
Noble
Mage
Caradryan
Alarielle
Spearmen
Archers
Ellyrion Reavers
Silver Helms
Sword Masters of Hoeth
White Lions
Phoenix Guard
Great Eagles
Flamespyre Phoenix
Frostheart Phoenix
Eagle Claw RBT
Maiden Guard of Avelorn

Here is how I like to run said units:
* means I strongly recommend

Prince
Mounted always, as cheap as possible in Silver Helms or in Dragon Princes. You want to take advantage of the armor bonuses of the mount above all else. The Star Lance is quite nice on him and try taking the Dragon Helm over the Dragon Armor to save points and gain that extra +1 and 2++ vs. Fire. You can either choose a Dawnstone or 4+ Ward, this depends on your meta. The idea here is to kit him out to deal damage while providing him with a 1+/2+ AS.

Anointed of Asuryan
I would recommend mounted on a Flamespyre; with a cheap defensive kit and maybe a decent weapon. You want to give the Phoenix the +1 so you can continue to harass the enemy all game long. Why the Fire Phoenix? Because when he dies, he causes massive damage on 2-4 every turn including your opponent's turn, and comes back to life with the rider to do it all over again on 5-6s. MR2 also gives your Phoenix a 3++ vs. MMs. If you must take the guy on foot because you want to stack ward saves onto any unit, give him a 2+ AS and be done with it.

Loremaster of Hoeth*
Slap on a 2+ AS and call it a day. The second slot can be Book of Hoeth if he's to be your main caster, a scroll if you're facing magic-heavy lists, or the Khaine's Ring of Fury if you want to go hard. Since he comes with a GW, I'll just keep things stock.

Archmage*
Always take the Lv.4 upgrade because it's amazing. Always take the Book of Hoeth because it's also amazing. I personally like the Golden Crown just because I don't plan on getting my AM into trouble too much, but I can see the value in taking a 4+ ward with the Book since it fits so perfectly. The choice is really up to you.

Noble*
BSB always: That's literally his only purpose in life. When I take him on foot, I either run him with a 2+ AS like Armor of Caledor or Silvered Steel. Just give him a Great Weapon and call it a day. However, I try to take him mounted as long as I have some kind of mounted element in my army. With Dragon Princes, I like giving him the standard DP kit, along with Enchanted Shield and Dawnstone for a 1+ re-rollable. If I absolutely need extra damage, I'll have the Star Lance in there. Mounted almost always sees a Potion of Foolhardiness.

Mage
With a natural +2 to cast in High Magic thanks of Blessing of Lileath, I don't think we need any higher than this. Lv.2 gives you a little more flexibility, but it really just depends on what kind of lists you'll be facing. I almost always use my "support mage" to carry the Dispel Scroll since my Archmage will be busy with his Book.

Caradryan
What can I say? The guy allows you to take another frozen turkey into the army and that's always welcome. Ashtari gets 5 attacks and Caradryan himself is pretty badass with his special rules and weapon. The MR1 gives Ashtari a lovely 4+ ward vs. magic missiles and that's always welcome. I personally would just take an Anointed if you're planning to run on foot. The Anointed gives a better bonus than Caradryan does when it comes to units.

Alarielle
Alarielle is really good for her points. For a little more than a pumped up Lv.4 with Book, she has loads of special rules that benefits not only her, but the unit she's in. She has really good spell diversity (choosing from Life, Light and High) as well as providing units with Immunity to Fear and Terror, magic attacks and a 5+ ward vs. non-magic attacks. In short, she's the new Teclis of this edition but she's also fair. I would probably avoid her heirloom magic items because frankly, they just cost a lot. She's good enough without them.

Spearmen
I always go big on Spears no matter what. You're looking at least 25, hopefully 30, and if needed, go to 40 in Full Command. Spears are the only unit in Core that can take a magic banner so make sure you take heed of that. The idea of having Spears is for a unit you can depend on holding the line; allowing your other more important units to deliver the crushing blow. They're literally fodder in terms of doing actual damage, but you'll be surprised at the results once you start piling on buffs and debuffs.

Archers*
These are your best bet at dealing with chaff from range. I like these guys because they allow you to get rid of annoying units that might hinder your path to glory. Why have that when your core answers it perfectly? I would always bring a unit of at least 10-15, in multiple units so you can negotiate different targets. Archers are also used to peel wounds off of bigger fatties with poor AS so you can deliver the killing blow later.

Ellyrion Reavers*
Speedy Fast Cav in Core is something HE players wanted for a long time. You basically use these guys like mini-Eagles and due to their flexibility and range, you can hunt down enemy chaff and threaten weaker mages. Overall, a pretty solid unit to have around and spend points on. Keep them small, you're looking at 5 max with bows.

Silver Helms
If you have a mounted Prince, you're most likely going to have Silver Helms in Core. These guys only got better in the new rules and now they don't even compete for the role of Prince bus. I'd say keep them at 8 with FC and room for a BSB + Prince, or 13 FC and go deeper so you can benefit from 3 ranks of Martial Prowess.

Sword Masters of Hoeth
MSU, always. Taking these guys in big numbers is just another way to throwing points at your opponent. However, if you keep the sizes small to something like 5-7, Sword Masters can function well on multiple levels. They basically act as mini-detachments that can counter-charge a unit while they're being held by White Lions or Spears. Sword Masters are also great protectors for your bow-type units and act as miniature speed bumps or combat-res generators. Although they're not as potent as before, in MSU-format combined with their points decrease, we will still see these guys running around the battlefield looking for something to do.

White Lions*
These guys are still one of the strongest choices in the book. Martial Prowess benefits them more than Sword Masters, they still do great damage and that WS5 S6 Stubborn is just SO nice. I recommend exactly 2 ways to taking these guys: MSU in units of 10 (3x3 + tail), or big in units of 7x3+. You can always customize your width to get either more attacks, or to squeeze a character into the back. The wider you go, the more attacks you'll get so it's best to get all 3 rows swinging back. MSU units are great counter-charge units that can potentially hold a unit in place through combat res alone.

Phoenix Guard*
Still as strong as ever. No points decrease doesn't affect these guys because Martial Prowess allows him to deal more damage than before while still taking no damage. I like these guys as mage bunkers because they work so perfectly with High Magic. If you manage to cast a single spell, you're looking at a flat 3+ ward save on these guys. For everyone who can testament how annoying 4+ ward is to take combat res from, now imagine it with even less due to the Phoenix Guard actually killing more. I would go not below 20 on these guys. They're just too good at being the best anvil in the game IMO.

Great Eagles*
The best re-director in the game, now with more options. If you leave home without 2, you need to rethink playing this army.

Flamespyre Phoenix
This firebird has a few tricks that can really mess with your opponent's plans. The one thing I will note about these guys is that they appear to be very meta specific. If your meta has a bunch of little weenie rats, beasts and Orks running around, the Flamespyre Phoenix will do some serious work. However, if your meta has smaller and more heavily-armored quality units, then I would probably not take the Flamespyre. Regardless, I think these guys make better mounts with the Anointed than they are solo choices. The reason why is because of the rider's ability to confer +1 to their Phoenix Reborn. It acts as both points denial, power combo and general annoyance.

Frostheart Phoenix*
Super good, there's nothing more to say. Solid statline with great abilities; Blizzard Aura just absolutely shuts down some armies and combos with many of the magic lores. To make things better, the Frostheart negates one of High Elves' only weaknesses, and that's low T and poor AS saves. Good thing -1S + ASL to every unit it touches fixes that. Since they can't res like their fiery brothers, always make sure you take two in case one goes down.

Eagle Claw RBT
Pew pew pew. You can now take 3 for the price of 2 from last book. Enough said.

Maiden Guard of Avelorn
These girls are pretty decent after all. Once I got the book and saw they were BS5, I was all sorts of happy. Still fights with other units in terms of points, these girls can potentially throw out lots of damage; especially vs. Forces of Destruction. I can definitely see the merit in taking these in a unit of 10-15 just to peel Regen and take care of chaff due to their awesome BS.

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Last edited by HERO on Tue May 07, 2013 5:38 am, edited 19 times in total.

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List Building 102 and Strategy

In this section you'll find my favorite units, their layouts and how I like to use them. Keep in mind that this section is constantly in flux as my lists always change and I drop things occasionally for more cost-effective options. For the most part, you'll find that I like bigger blocks of infantry and hover around ~10 or so deploys. While I do like to play with MSU units sometimes, my meta calls for slightly bigger blocks to compete. This might not be the same case for you.

My unit bucket

Lv.4 Archmage, Shadow = 285
Book of Hoeth, Golden Crown

I never leave home without my Archmage for the most part. Very rarely do I want to take someone else when I have one of the most flexible spellcasters in the game. Being able to take all the lores gives great flexibility, but having the Book of Hoeth is just fantastic. For an item that allows me to re-roll one die to each casting and dispelling attempt, I am absolutely thrilled at how much easier it is to control the magic phase. Book of Hoeth essentially saves you one bad dice in each casting and potentially turns your crappy dispel into a great one. With such a strong item on a Lv.4 wizard, you can't really ask for more. For now, I take Golden Crown on my dude because a one a game 2+ ward is enough. If you feel you need more protection because of snipers or magehunters, I suggest taking the 4+ ward talisman simply because it fits perfectly with Book of Hoeth.

BSB Noble = 149
GW, Armor of Caledor

BSB Noble, Dragon Prince = 161
EShield, Dawnstone, PoFools

You will find one constant in my list at all times and that's my Noble BSB. The BSB re-roll is just so huge I can't imagine any anyone not taking it unless you're Undead of Daemons. Although the foot version of the Noble has gotten significantly weaker from the last book, it's now in line with the rest of the 8th Ed. BSBs in terms of protective gear. That's a step in the right direction for now, but there's still a couple of books out there that have better options. When I'm mounted up, I feel much more comfortable with the amount of damage I can negate. The Dragon Prince setup means he comes with Dragon Armor, Shield, Lance and of course, a Ithilmar-barded Steed. Since the Enchanted Shield and Dawnstone gives me an enjoyable 1+ re-rollable, I finish up the build with a simple Potion of Foolhardines for that ItP (to him and his unit) and Devastating Charge on the round that means something. If you want a more damage-centric build, I suggest the EShield, Star Lance combo with the Potion. This gives you 4 WS6 S7 I7 ASF attacks on the charge.

Lv.1-2 Mage, Support = 110-145
Scroll

There's been times where I feel the Book of Hoeth is enough to keep the dispels up and the magic flowing. However, I like the fact that I have a scroll somewhere in my army. For this reason, I normally take a Lv.1 supporting mage to accompany my main caster everywhere I go. The function of this mage is simple: Pick a good signature spell and hope you get some other low-cost spell. With only Lv.2 max or pseudo +3 when casting High Magic, the guy's primary goal in life is to throw out a cheap spell, draw some DD and hopefully live long enough to scroll a big spell. There's not much to say really, his function differs from army to army and some generals claim they don't even need it! That's fine for the most part, but I like having him just in case things go south and I don't feel like chancing a dispel. For lores, go with a lore that's easy to cast and have stacking effects with your main lore. I prefer Heavens, High and Light magic.

30x Spearmen, FC, SoDiscipline = 315

Most people do not take Spearmen but I always take at least one. Now, you might be thinking that Spearmen suck and it's true. By themselves, they're pretty shoddy compared to the other crazy core choices other armies can take. Saurus, Dwarf Warriors, Chaos Warriors, Chaos Chariots, the list goes on. In all honesty, Spearmen don't even hold the line well because a lot of the units that will hit them will hit them hard enough that they'll flounder in the following rounds of combat. So why take them? Well, Spears give you one the thing that I think Elves need on the battlefield: More bodies. More bodies gives you another unit that you can jam down someone's flank for max combat res before any blows are struck. This negates steadfast, isn't too expensive, and for the most part they do a pretty great job killing other similar S3 T3 core. What really makes them stand out is that they fight in an additional rank and have ASF. A lot of people underestimate their damage but once you stack on a few buffs and debuffs, their damage goes through the roof. Why? Because of their ability to consistently hit their target. WS4 I5 ASF with a ton of attacks is a great way to get a lot of hits, so the only thing you need to worry about is doing the damage. That's where spells like Wildform and Withering come in.

15x Archers, Mus = 160

This is a pretty mainstay unit for me. I either take my archers 10-15 and give them a Musician for Swift Reform. The reason why I like archers is because they kill annoying chaff units. When the enemy has a bunch of Sabretusks, Dire Wolves or Eagles flying around the battlefield, there's no greater unit to clear those from the field than your humble archers. Martial Prowess allows them to shoot in 3 ranks and Swift Reform allows them to redirect needed missile fire into outflankers or overrunning units. Sometimes it's also wise to bunker your mages in these units. That way, they can avoid the dangers of close combat and continue to throw out hexes and augments to support your troops. Just be mindful that archers aren't the greatest combat units and they won't win any reasonable combat. For this reason, be mindful of assassinations that might come out and take out your mage.

25x Phoenix Guard, FC, BoEF = 415

Depending on your meta, you might also want to look into Razor Standard. Right now I have my Phoenix Guard setup to deal with Regen units, but if you're fighting an more armored army you might want to consider the Armor Piercing. With Martial Prowess being what it is, Phoenix Guard got a definite buff in the new edition. They lost nothing but gained an additional rank of choppiness and that's something truly amazing. The unit is rock hard, can be pumped to a 3+ ward via High Magic and can make mince-meat out of lesser units. Their one power play is the fact that they're insanely hard to kill. This in turn means they outright deny combat res to even the strongest of enemies. For units that count the majority of their effectiveness on how many wounds they can inflict, Phoenix Guard are one of the best counters.

24x White Lions, FC, BotWD = 392

I outright enjoy having White Lions in my army. They hold the line, do great damage and when buffed with a few spells, they are just fantastic units. WS5 and S6 is already amazing, but the lack of re-rolls means they can suffer from rubber lance syndrome. Fortunately for us, statistically, the amount of damage we can do with Martial Prowess gives us a better chance to inflict more damage than we did last book. While rubber lances is certainly a problem, we can maximize their damage potential by choosing spells that benefits them most. Ideally, we want to keep these guys alive so they can continue to hit back hard with each combat. Right now I have the Banner of the World Dragon on them to protect them from spells, but be careful that spells like Dwellers can still get in.

5x Dragon Princes, Mus = 155

Dragon Princes are one of my favorite units and they're just downright awesome. A unit of 5 with Musician is extremely affordable, moves very well due to M9 and Iltilmar Barding, and comes with some of the best rules in the game: 2+ AS, 2+ ward vs. Fire and 6+ built-in ward. Their fighting prowess is also second to none: WS5 2 attacks each, S5 on the charge at I6. With an average threat range of 16", these guys are one of my go-to units. Most of the time I like to take these guys in small numbers, but in the days that I'm feeling ballsy, I'll field a lot more. You should use these Dragon Princes as a precision-based combat res generator. Yes, that's exactly how you should look at them: This is where you want combat res, so I put these guys there. They charge in on the flank, kill a lot of models, and gives you enough combat res to push the battle in your favor.

Frostheart Phoenix = 240

I have at least one of these guys in every single game I play. They have very good stats for their price, great threat range and maneuverability because of fly, and the most amazing special rule to ever grace High Elves. Blizzard Aura's ASL and -1S to every unit it touches is absolutely huge. This effectively increases the Toughness of all your fighters in combat as well as giving them an additional armor save. Anything that improves the survivability of our expensive troops is good, but anything that allows us to completely turn a combat is another. The Frostheart Phoenix is one of those units that reverses the course of combat just by engaging the other unit. To make things even better, his ability stacks with our formidable array of magic spells such as Enfeeble or Soulblight; essentially making your Elves as tough as Stegadons.



+++STILL PLAYTESTING+++

Lastly,

Great Eagle Tactica
A must read for all HE players wanting to step up their game!

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Player Advice

Knowing your Enemy

The first piece of advice I have for newer players is knowing your enemy. There is nothing more important than this piece right here. You look across the table and you see a bunch of units you don't know, you already know this game is going to head into disaster. Very few players have the ability to asset threat, damage and power on the fly so its best you go into battles prepared. Key units like the Skaven Doomwheel, the Bloodthirster or the horde unit of Khorne Marauders with Great Weapons, all of these are important pieces on the battlefield. The best thing to do in these situations is to point across the table and ask. If the player you're playing with is a gentleman, and it's a friendly game, I hope he can tell you what each unit does. In a tournament setting, forget about it. Fantasy already takes a day and a half to set up, so it's best you do your research ahead of time.

Think of it like this: Every game of fantasy (the actual) game is a test of skill and generalship. Any good general takes the time to learn about his enemy and so should you. That's why I buy every army book GW prints. Not only is it superb shitter material, but it's also valuable information on what kind of ridiculous combos, units or special characters that might show up on the battlefield.

Understanding Your Army

I almost think that knowing your enemy and understanding your army works hand in hand. If you think about it, you spend all this time making up your army list and for what? Each army list is designed to accomplish a certain thing on the battlefield. Playing for fun is one thing, but you're also playing so your troops are victorious on the battlefield. This is why army design is crucial and how you can make the best out of your army composition.

Keep in mind that this is not advice on how to min-max your army, it's about making your army work for you. As a general of any given army, you must find a medium where you're comfortable with the units you've taken, and you understand fully how they work. The best way to do this is by assigning battlefield roles. Take Sword Masters for example, what do they do best? They generate CR by ripping up lowly troops in combat but they die as fast as a swift breeze. What's the job of Spearmen? Or Skavenslaves? To hold the line and await reinforcements, using their superior numbers and ranks to tie the enemy down.

To be a successful general, you must know your units like the back of your hand. Understand each unit's functionality and purpose, but most importantly, understand why you put them in your army in the first place.

Deployment

I've seen many games where games are lost on deployment alone. Don't worry; hopefully these next lines of text will give you a better understanding of why deployment is so important. Picture for a second that your opponent puts down a unit of heavily armored Chaos Knights after you put your White Lions down far away from them. If those White Lions were your only defense against heavy armor, then I'd say you're in a world of shit once those Knights come crashing on your flank.

That's why you see players taking units whose sole purpose is to give them an edge in deployment. Some might be good enough to be used as re-directors or warmachine hunters too. These units are also known as chaff. Chaff is important because it allows you put these units down anywhere you want for the most part. They pretty much always go in the same place or have outrageous movement speed that they can relocate and not be troublesome for the movement of your army. Eagles can be used as chaff, Sabretusks and Fellbats for example, all can act as chaff for your army.

The key to deployment is matching your opponent's units pound for pound, literally. You don't want to put down a unit that doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell against another unit he put down right off the top. Your unit must have support, or is capable of holding the line against whatever he puts down or your side is just going to fold. The best example is the Knights scenario I presented above. You want to be able to match your opponent in deployment, or be superior to him in deployment. I call these "drops". If your army has greater or equal to the number of drops he has (total # of units he can put down during deployment), you're in a good place. This minimizes on the chance your army will be out-deployed. The person with more chaff will have more chaff that he can put down, forcing you to put down your last unit of White Lions so he can purposely drop a power unit on your flank. Unless your army is designed to fight uphill battles, you should never let this happen.

If you know you're going to be out-deployed, you should analyze which units on his side you don't want in your flanks and deploy your answers last. This is where knowing your enemy comes into place.

Analyzing Threat

To be successful on the battlefield and during deployment, you must first analyze threat. You must understand which units on the other side of the table can cause you most harm. This is huge. Keep in mind that army scale does not equate to the harm they can cause in combat. The best example of this is a giant unit of Skaveslaves vs. a small unit of Sword Masters. The craziest thing to assume is that the unit of Skavenslaves is going to do a lot of damage on the battlefield. Sure, there's a whole bunch of them, but their fighting prowess equates to dried fish where your Sword Masters preform like a hot knife through butter.

One of the things that 8th Ed. has going for it is big creatures. If it's a big monster on the other side of the table, this is probably worrisome. If a unit is carrying Great Weapons, it's probably going to do a lot of damage. If a unit is carrying Great Weapons and is in horde formation, it's probably something you should
deploy smartly against because that thing is going to fuck your shit up if you play dumb. The most pronounced threats on the battlefield are normally the ones your opponent has heroes and lords going into it. It's either going to be a caster bunker, or a frontline unit that'll do solid bits of damage.

Remember what I said about battlefield roles? Your opponent does the same thing with his army. He knows what his frontline units are, which ones do the most damage and which ones are designed to hold the line. You know his primary sources of damage and these are the ones that should be generating the highest amount of threat in your mind. You might run into scenarios where certain units don't want to be in combat at all. These are often caster bunkers or vulnerable Magelords who would hate to have an Eagle pick out his eyes. Knowing the weak points of his army can prove to be a great advantage to you during deployment and when you're playing the game. Again, understanding how the opposing army works helps greatly here.

Understanding Favorable Scenarios

Hesitation can lose you a game, but so can your ability to underestimate your troops.

Here are some examples:
A scary dragon on the battlefield is not so scary when you shoot him with a billion arrows.
Knights actually do quite poorly against White Lions.
A small unit of Sword Masters into the side of Skavenslaves really fucks up their shit.
A Spearmen unit, given enough ranks can hold a charge from most non-GW equivalents units in the game.

A lot of this might seem like common sense, but you'd be surprised how many times players second guess themselves on the battlefield. Know your army, know what each unit is designed to do (which is surprisingly easy for High Elves because everyone's so specialized), and know which scenarios go in your favor on the battlefield when paired up against any given opponent. This normally takes a lot of experience (normally horrible ones at that), for a player to figure out, but most players understand the gist of it.

At the end of the day, you should always apply a unit's actual battlefield role to do battle. You should always be thinking: The only reason I'm bringing X unit is to fight against Y units. In a game of rock-paper-scissors and random surprise Mindrazors; it still works in your favor when you know what counters what.

Predicting Combat

This is definitely more in the lines of advanced players, but after so many battles, players start seeing the same numbers. A unit of 7x2 Sword Masters hits a unit of Skavenslaves. Aside from a ton of rats dying horribly, how many Sword Masters did you lose and how much CR did you generate? What about Spears? Even if you didn't charge but was instead charged by a unit of Empire Halberdiers, how many Spearmen died and how much CR did you generate via kills, ranks and standard? What about that beefy lord-class character sitting in a relatively weaker unit? I bet he can do some serious work. I'm not saying go out there and mathhammer the life out of everything in the game, but you should have an idea how your units will preform on the battlefield.

The battlefield is a pretty unpredictable place, especially when shit like magic is involved. However, successful players have a good idea of what to expect when they throw their units into combat. For the most part, players only throw their units into combat they can win. This is why predicting combat outcomes are so important. A unit of Spearmen charging a horde unit of Marauders w/ Great Weapons in the front might not be the best choice alone, but what if you plan your magic phase to get Withering off on the unit? What if you decide to combo charge with your Spears and Sword Masters on the flank so you can use your magic elsewhere? The combat res generated from the combined charge "should" win you combat.

You see how predicting combat drastically changes the way you play the game? By assessing the battlefield and seeing the game on a larger level, you are able to make plays ahead of time. The key to being a successful general is being able to see multiple instances of this at once and analyzing which ones generate the highest amount of success with the lowest number of risk. Your ability to capitalize on this is what will take you from good, to great.

Lesser of Two Evils

Sometimes, sacrifices have to be made in order for victory for be secured. Sometimes, you just have to choose. Imagine yourself in a scenario where no matter what you do, something bad is going to happen to your army. This might be a loss of a flank, a loss of a key unit or letting a horrible spell go through. If your opponent plays it right, there should be scenarios where all of these happen at the same time. Take note here for a second about what I just said. A well-played game of Warhammer is when you make your opponent sweat over the choices he has to make. No matter what choice he makes, something bad should happen to his army. That's when you know you've made a good play.

If you have to choose, always go with the play that'll guarantee you the greatest chance of victory in subsequent rounds. This is a lot harder than it looks because you have to first let that flank fall, or that unit be destroyed so you can strike back in a manner most decisive. This is why predicting combat and understanding favorable scenarios is important. In a situation like this, always put yourself in the opponent's shoes. Think from his perspective and predict what he would do after he successfully pulled off a big play. Predict what he does and counter it to the best of your advantage. Think to yourself: If he wins big on combat there and I flee, will he pursue or will he reform? If he persues, do I have anything that can hit him in the flank or catch him in a bad spot? If he reforms, do I have anything that can strike decisively and win combat on that unit next turn?

Don't get yourself caught up in the moment. Understand that the 300 odd points of Spearmen you just fed your opponent can equate to you combo-charging his General's bunker and send it into the oblivion, then it's well worth it. If sacrifice has to be made, it has to make its points back and more. If not, then the sacrifice is not worth it.

Magic Superiority

The first thing to understand is that a small advantage is still an advantage. This is how you should analyze the winds of magic. A successful magic phase is all about analyzing which spells your opponent can afford to let go and which spells he can't. With an Lv.4 Wizard, you have access to a good amount of viable spells. The spells your opponent can let go are often the spells you want to take advantage of. That's when why you draw a big winds round, you cast moderately but still vital spells that plink at his dispel dice. These should be all moderately dangerous to the outcome of the fight in question (which will be his main focus).

Use smaller castings of hexes and augments, because a slight advantage (what he sees, and analyzes as less important), is still an advantage (huge for High Elves). A clever mage will be able to feint the significance of a fight and get off multiple spells a turn. If your opponent lets it all go because he's anticipating Mindrazor, that's his problem because now his unit is now -WS, -T and you ASF with a better combat result. Mindrazor isn't even needed at this point. If he throws dice trying to dispel your other hexes, that's less dice he has available when you actually do through down the MR. This goes hand in hand with what I said about anticipating combat results. How badly your troops need your magic will save a lot of unneeded dice.

Redirecting focus: Say you have a unit engaged in combat and you anticipate a victory, or at least a draw result. You concentrate magic on another area of the battlefield that your opponent isn't focused on. This breaks his concentration and draws a big cloud of WTF? over his head. This happens when you see something crucial your opponent doesn't, as often times or not, players get tunnel-visioned in the combat they're in but don't grasp the wider vision of the battlefield. Hexing incoming Knights on your turn with -WS or -S will make much more of a difference than watching Sword Masters narrowly win combat vs. a flanking unit of Clanrats.

Baiting and Feinting

Fleeing from a battlefield is not always a sign of cowardice. It can also be used to bait an opponent out of position or force him into a position he doesn't want to be in. The best example of this could be a unit of Spears fleeing from a charge of Bretonnian Knights. God knows you don't to take that charge in the face so you opt to flee with your Spearmen. He now has two choices: Take a Ld. test to charge something else, or roll for the Spears. Say that you have a unit of White Lions or Sword Masters next to the Spears. Does he really want to re-direct into the Lions or SM? Or does he want to risk the charge and risk exposing his flank to the Lions?

You see what you just did here? A simple flee can put your opponent in a rock and a hard place (especially if the charge is long). Both scenarios equally suck for him so he might opt to charge at all. This is also good for you because it gives you the chance to charge his Knights next turn! And if he doesn't opt to charge, your Spears will still be there to assist in the main battle. Warhammer can be a game of cat and mouse, so it's best to know all the options available to you before you commit. If you plan on charging something, know all the possible reactions your opponent can take before investing. You don't want to be in the same shoes as the above player.

Eagles are an Elves' Best Friend

I've said it once and I'll say it again: Eagles are my MVP. First off, they are probably one of the most annoying pieces of chaff ever. They're great in the deployment phase when you can just put one down and stare into your opponent's soul. They're great ingame because they can fly boldly into your opponent's charge lanes and take one from the team; forcing them to charge them and re-position. Eagles buy you time, buy you movement and allow you to re-position your army while the Eagle re-positions your opponents. They allow you to chase down enemy chaff or flankers, help pressure warmachines and provide you with flank and rear charge CR should they survive mid-game. They act primarily as re-directors (a Frenzied unit's worst nightmare) and are the true workhorse of most High Elf armies. You can find more uses of them here.

Counter-charges and Flanking

Sometimes, the good ol' hammer and anvil is something even the experienced players forget. The concept of a counter-charge is simple: Unit #1 is a unit that can take hits - in the case of High Elves, a giant block of Spears with Steadfast CR up the ass. This is known as the anvil. Unit #2 is a unit that hits hard as fuck but dies to a soft breeze. Sword Masters are an popular choice for an hammer. Your opponent charges your Spearmen because it's the only viable target and you hold knowing that your Sword Masters (who are conveniently placed on your flank), will have a flank charge next round. Magic is invested in keeping the Spearmen alive and steadfast while the Sword Masters charge their flank next turn. Heads start rolling and combat heavily swings your way, winning you the day.

Flanking is also quite simple: Place something that has good threat range on the far sides of your army and use them as CR generators. I normally like using Dragon Princes for this type of role. Put 5 of these guys down on a wide-flank and they can be used to reliably add CR to any combat mid-field. Flanking can also be used to bypass some of your opponents' attention to hit warmachines and other units chilling in their backfield. Lastly, flanking is also good for having additional CR in combat. An Eagle charging from the far flank gives you 2 CR for just having the balls to be there. It's pretty much free CR.

Winning combat, now what?

So now that you've won combat, you have to think about what to do next. Unfortunately, most players think about this step immediately after the combat resolves. I want you to take a step back and think about what can happen even before you charge. If you charge now, and win a victory over your opponent, can you overrun into an important caster bunker in back? Does your opponent have anything that can crush your overrun if you choose to do so? Is your unit stretched too far and out of range of your BSB? Is he out of his BSB? If you push the advantage, will your advantage be negated if he engages the rest of your army while your best unit is out of position? Winning combat is important for sure, but what happens after is even more important. You must be in a favorable situation to benefit from it: The result of a successful charge should net you more success in the subsequent turns than harm.

Keep in mind that you don't have to keep going after you wiped out a unit. Check to see if the unit has been mauled enough that the only way he can rally is if he rolls double 1s. Sometimes the position you're in begs you to combat reform and stay still. If you commit anymore, you might go from crushing victory to outright defeat. Never lose sight of the bigger picture and don't over extend yourself. Unless you're Stubborn, or have a unit that's incapable of losing combined charges in the next round of combat, it's best to wait for the rest of your army. You want to be in magic support range, you want to be in BSB range and you want to be in support charge range of other units. Don't forget this.

Another thing to keep in mind is Line of Sight. If your unit can surge forward enough after winning combat that'll take him out of LoS (and thus enemy charges), this is a great advantage. It allows you to drive deep in the enemy lines and force him to turn around or suffer a rear charge from you in the subsequent turns. This also allows your main force to advance and catch him in a vice. Surely this is a good thing as even the most lackwit of generals know that enemy forces running in their backfield is bad.

Lost combat, now what?

So your beautiful charge turned into a crushing defeat, what now? Obviously, this means your unit will be running back to your lines like a whipped dog. Don't worry, you can now look into the future and analyze why you lost combat and how you can regain the momentum in the next phase of the game. Maybe something completely unpredictable happened in the magic phase that killed your opportunities in combat? This is the single biggest factor in how combats can sway. This is also something I want you to remember: Magic can greatly skew the outcome of any combat you're invested in. Think about this before you charge, and understand what magic lores he has that can shift momentum in his favor. In order for you to succeed in combat, you must dispel the magic he will use to turn combat in his favor. This is not negotiable.

After losing combat, you need to analyze several things:

Did he Overrun? If so, are you in a position where you can take advantage of his over-extension?
Did he Combat Reform? If so, are you able to counter-attack next turn?
What made you lose combat? Was it some beefy character or was it magic that turned the tides?
How do you not lose combat again? Neutralize the beefy character (or avoid him completely) and dispel the magic that sways combat his way.
Is your fleeing unit useless? Treat the game as if you're 1 down, but don't forget about the fleeing unit. Even if he's below 25%, you can still test for double 1s.

When ahead, stay ahead

The philosophy behind this concept is simple: Don't do anything stupid that'll throw away your lead. What happens most of the time when players start winning is they start playing careless. This is a sure way to lose your lead and put you behind in a game where you're almost guaranteed to win. A great example of this would be killing your opponent's Dragon Lord and 1-2 Hydras with your Warmachines first turn before they even get to do anything and still managing to lose the game. I don't know how this happens, but players get lost the ecstasy of great plays (or luck) and think now that the main threats are gone that the game is in their hands. This is the wrong way to approach a lead.

The more appropriate way to take advantage of a lead is to think: How do I get further ahead? You want to be in a position where your next step is to eliminate any and all possible ways the opponent can swing the game around. You put yourself in his position and you think to yourself: I just lost my Dragon Lord and my Hydras, so what can I do now to walk away from the table like a man? Once you think about the situation from your opponent's mindset, you counter it and deny him of it. With no victory options in sight, your opponent will have no choice but to fold. That's just how the cookie crumbles.

Post-game Analysis

Now that the game is won (or lost), you can look back and see what you can do to improve. Human beings are meant to improve; we're a race of learners and adapters. No matter how badly you just massacred your opponent or how crushing your defeat, there's always something to take away from the game. The most important part here is that you must learn from your game to improve. If you won the game, think about the scenarios you could have done better. If you lost the game, think about why you lost and which units caused the most problems. Think about all the topics that were covered above. There must be something you could have done better in the never-ending list of becoming a better general.

It's important that you discuss the game with your opponent. Talk about how the battle could have gone differently if you did this, or that. How his game could have changed if he did this, or that. Not only does this give you a better perspective on the game (and your opponent's army), but also the player you're playing against. Share your thoughts with your opponent and let him share his with yours. Criticism and advice should be taken with an opened mind. It helps broaden your perspective on other general's opinions and makes you a better-rounded player overall.

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Army Specific and Match-ups

This is the section that'll see most WIP. It's also one of the most comprehensive places to find answers to all the world's evil. I will do my best and instruct you on how you can prepare yourself to face the enemies of the Asur. You will also find links to my personal blog or other articles I've written for in-depth army reviews and tacticas. I'll also do my best to write an army review for each new army that gets released, and construct a HE vs. Race Tactica for each Enemy of the Month polls.

First, a short recap of what we're seeing in 8th Ed. This is what's being played competitively world-wide and accepted as the beardiest of the beard. Keep in mind that this mixes and change with the meta so expect frequent updates.

The Hard Stuff
Quote:
Warriors of Chaos (8th)
Unkillable Lord - Tough as nails flying Lord with 3+ Ward, re-roll 1s.
Monsters 'R Us - Just tons of big beastly creatures, MCs, and heavy shock cavalry.

Vampire Counts (8th)
Scream lists - A lot of Ethereal, a lot of leadership bombing Doom and Darkness, -1 Ld., and loads of screamers + 2x Terrorgheists.
Blender Lord - Gets in combat, kills your entire army. Not much can be said about a walking killer of everything.
Horror blocks + Regen - Super hard to kill, does a ton of wounds, the perfection blend of unbreakable attrition.

Wood Elves (6th)
Treekin and tree spam - Treeman, Treekin and Dryads. Lots of fear, terror and pretty decent in close combat.
Moonstone + Archer horde - Shoot a lot, jump a lot and shoot some more. Re-appear for a free charge to your rear is pretty cool too.

Dark Elves (7th)
Shooty lists - Tons of RXB with magic like Sac Dagger to spam Shadow/Dark magic. Designed to lower your Toughenss and shoot you to death with hordes of shots
Balanced? - Expect a Unkillable Stubborn lord to tie things up forever, dual Hydras for extra lame and Lv.4 Sorc to spam spells through Sac Dagger. Sprinkle Cauldron, a horde of Wyches and Black Guard with ASF Banner. People will say this is balanced, but then you ask him how the F do they get all that in 2500 points. Our answer is because everything in the book is underpriced.

Daemons of Chaos (8th)
Double Skull Cannons
All Nurgle lists + Epidemis, huge units of PBs and GUO - Ranks up the tally and become unkillable.

Beastmen (7th)
Herdstone magic heavy lists - Spam the crap out of Shards to net yourself tons of extra dice for low budget wizards. This list is designed to break through your magic defenses so be prepared.
Minotaur character horde - Large unit of Minos with Doombulls and other killy characters designed to wreck your face in combat. Just very grim to face.
Hordes upon hordes - Overload the field with just as many bodies as you can, cast spells and break through defenses with rock hard killy characters and magic spam.

Skaven (7th)
Deadly magic, dual Abom - Put in 2 Aboms and take Grey Seer with all the bells and whistles. Plague and Ruin are both very powerful lores they can get for near free, Grey Seer on top of a Bell in a giant horde, plus enough cheap skaven hordes to hold up units forever. On top of this, they can take cheap characters loaded with all kinds of powerful and eccentric weaponry. A perfect example of a 7th Ed. book going into 8th and taking full advantage of the rules.

Tomb Kings (8th)
Khalida Archer Horde - 80 Archers + Khalida, SSCs w/ Skulls upgrade, casket, some T8 monsters and units to block and keep shooting. One of the most frustrating lists to play against.

Brettonians (6th)
A crap ton of Knights - Fast, maneuverable, loaded with characters that are designed to challenge, kill and hit hard.

Dwarves (6th)
Unkillable King and horde Warriors - The King will challenge and you will retire. You just can't kill the Lord and he'll be backed up with tons of Hammerers, Warriors with Great Weapons and a decent amount of shooting.
Full Anvil Gunline - Of course this exists, why not. Load up with S5, tooled up, magical Stone Throwers that'll make Elves cry, Organ Guns, Thunderers and a Anvil Lord. Who knows, maybe Thorek himself will join the party if he feels like it. Just.. really not fun for you to play against.

Empire (8th)
Karl Franz on Dragon, dual Steam Tank - Steam Tanks are already really hard to deal with and now they have 2. Karl Franz on a Dragon just craps all over your characters.
Cavalry deathstar - Same as Brettonians, but with different magic items.

Lizardmen (7th)
Slaan and Temple bunker - Saurus Warriors hordes, some hitty elements perhaps, and a supporting Priest on EotG. The main list focuses around a Slaan, probably with Becalming Cognition, Rumination of Focus, Focus of Mystery and other goodies. Expect him to sit inside a Stubborn 10 Cold-blood bunker with a bunch of supporting fighty heroes. Awesome.
Skink heavy lists - Odd list, but an insane number of poisoned shots will surely come your way.

Ogre Kingdoms (8th)
Ogre or Irongut Horde - Lots of killy stuff + characters, most likely holding Hellheart and Dispel Scrolls. Tons of attacks and lots of wounds to go around.
Shooty Ogres - Loaded up with Leadbelchers, cannons and large Ogre blocks. Leadbelchers shoot D6 S4 armor piercing shots each and the Ironblaster is a S10 Cannon that's tough as nails to kill.
Mournfang + 2x Iron Blaster - Loads up on Mournfangs that can overwhelming army lists by the sheer number of attacks, high armor save, parrying Ogres riding S5 impact hit bearcats.

Orcs and Goblins (8th)
Hordes, loaded with characters with GWs - I've never seen a army book take as many units as O&G.. and they can do with a punch too! They have the points for tons of cheap characters with multiple wounds and Great Weapons.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:07 am 
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Sample Army Lists

Keep in mind that these lists are to be used as guides. You can mix and match any of the units featured in my competitive unit bucket.

Quote:
2496
10 drops

LORDS:
Lv.4 Archmage, Shadow = 285
Book of Hoeth, Golden Crown

HEROES:
BSB Noble = 149
GW, Armor of Caledor

Lv.2 Mage, Heavens = 150
Scroll, Ironcurse

CORE:
30x Spearmen, FC, SoDiscipline = 315
15x Archers, Mus = 160
14x Archers, Mus = 150

SPECIAL:
24x Phoenix Guard, FC, BoEF = 400
24x White Lions, FC, BotWD = 392
5x Dragon Princes, Musician = 155

RARE:
Frostheart Phoenix = 240
Great Eagle = 50
Great Eagle = 50


Quote:
2499
10 drops

LORDS
Lv.4 Archmage, High Magic = 285
Book of Hoeth, Crown

HEROES
BSB Noble = 146
GW, Armor of Caledor

Lv.1 Mage, High Magic = 110
Scroll

CORE
30x Spearmen (FC, SoDiscipline) = 315
15x Archers, Mus = 160
14x Archers, Mus = 150

SPECIAL
24x Phoenix Guard (FC, BotWD) = 440
21x White Lions (FC, BoEFlame) = 313

RARE
Frostheart Phoenix = 240
Frostheart Phoenix = 240
Great Eagle = 50
Great Eagle = 50


Quote:
2498
10 drops

LORDS
Lv.4 Archmage, High Magic = 285
Book of Hoeth, Crown

HEROES
BSB Noble, Dragon Prince = 161
Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone, PoFool

Lv.1 Mage, High Magic = 110
Scroll

CORE
30x Spearmen (FC, SoDiscipline) = 315
15x Archers, Mus = 160
14x Archers, Mus = 150

SPECIAL
27x White Lions (FC, BotWD) = 431
9x Dragon Princes (FC, CShield, BoEFlame) = 306

RARE
Frostheart Phoenix = 240
Frostheart Phoenix = 240
Great Eagle = 50
Great Eagle = 50


Quote:
2496
10 drops

LORDS
Prince, Star Dragon = 624
HA, Shield, Dragon Helm, Star Lance, 4+ Ward

HEROES
BSB Noble, Dragon Prince = 161
Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone, PoFool

Lv.2 Mage, High Magic = 145
Scroll

CORE
15x Archers, Mus = 160
15x Archers, Mus = 160
15x Archers, Mus = 160
15x Archers, Mus = 160

SPECIAL
9x Dragon Princes (FC, CShield, BotWD) = 346

RARE
Frostheart Phoenix = 240
Frostheart Phoenix = 240
Great Eagle = 50
Great Eagle = 50

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For the Glory of Ulthuan!

This section is for battle reports that I write on my blog. For every BR that you see written, there's a bunch that don't get posted. I try my best not to post one-sided games because I find them uninteresting and sad.

BR #1 and #2 vs. Lizards and Ogres - Monster mash and a 2k game!
BR #3 vs. VC - I face off against a slightly different VC list
BR #4 vs. VC - The revenge of the Undead?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:15 am 
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Player Input and FAQs

The current official GW FAQ for High Elves:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Cus ... s_V1_4.pdf

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:04 am 
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Reserved.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:56 pm 
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Waiting on the new book so I can rewrite all of these sections...

I'M SO EXCITED :mrgreen:


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Now that we have a little more concrete information, let's brainstorm some lists.

I have 2 main playstyles as of right now. This might expand as I'm willing to try out new shit, but being the type of player that I am, I like to focus on these two.

Infantry heavy with a strong Magic/Shooting theme
Dragon Lord theme with tons of mobility and drops.

The infantry heavy list looks like so..
Big unit of LSG, 2 units of supporting Archers for core: ~625
Magic will have Lv.4, BSB and Lv.2 Loremaster, possibly a LSG hero depending on cost: ~800
I will have a block of White Lions, Phoenix Guard as a bunker: ~500
More RBTs, 2x Eagles: ~200
Supporting hammer units in the form of DPs, MSU Sword Masters and Lion Chariots: ~400
Focus is to destroy the enemy in the magic/shooting phase, assuring magic supremacy and presenting overwhelming firepower
Very much defensive.

The Dragon Lord list will look like:
Dragon Lord on Star Dragon: ~625
BSB, mounted, with 11x DPs: ~ 550
Lv.2 High Magic, maybe another Lv.1 High Magic scroll caddy or LSG Hero: ~300
MSU Reavers and Archers as core, or LSG Hero takes a unit of LSG + Reavers: ~625
2x Eagles: ~100
2x Lion Chariots: ~250
2x Phoenixes: ~450
RBTs or Flying Chariots depending on costs (low priority): ~100
The focus of this list will be mobility, isolating and destroying pocket elements of my opponent's list
Very aggressive playstyle.
Points are over right now, but this is brainstorming and that doesn't mean anything. Mandatory units: DP/Dragon Princes, 2x Phoenixes, 1x Prince on Dragon. Possibly replace DPs with Silverhelms if I need to make points.

Notes to self:
-Lv.2 Loremaster, Lv.4 Archmage, BSB and Lv.1 Scroll Caddy allows for a coven of light
-High Magic goes very well with our Dragons and Phoenixes; 1-2 Mages with High Magic will be nessacary
-Loremaster has the flexibility to combine with the Archmage to dominate the magic phase. Magic items pending.
-Shooting and Magic work hand in hand, especially if you're looking from an offensive viewpoint.
-The cost of shooting is going to go down. Archers are going down in points, the flying chariot is supposed to be sub 100 and the RBTs will probably either 50 or 75 points.
-Reavers are the best thing to be added to core. Since I'm not looking for a cavalry-based playstyle and I'm focusing on the bigger toys, MSU Reavers and Archers should give us ~6 drops from Core itself.
-The LSG Hero is looking to be a great choice if he's able to reform any unit. This, of course, works best with a unit that can both shoot and fight in ranks (LSGs duh). However, I do see him as a form of a tax and one of the only reasons why taking LSGs will be needed.
-For dominating shooting, perhaps 2 units of LSGs will be needed alongside 2 LSG Heroes? This will give you 2 shooting units that can also reform and fight with ASF/Martial Prowess.
-I will looking at the possibility of a Lv.4, Loremaster, BSB (can the LSG hero be the BSB?) + 2x LSG Heroes, 2x LSG units, and RBTs for mass shooting/magic.

I welcome anyone who shares these playstyle mentalities to share your insight as well.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:51 am 
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I would seriously look at swapping the dragon lord for multiple eagle characters. Its too much of a cannon target, and 2 eagle lords likely can do the same job. Not sure abut the DP, with a big bus like that you're going to be spending the entire game trying to protect them from things that stop them, which means dragon has to baby sit.

How about

Prince eagle
Prince eagle + defensive lvl2 (or defensive lvl4 + eagle noble)
BSB eagle
Noble eagle (depending on rest of list and points)

Characters; (~1175)

reaver + archer core. (I'm thinking 2x15 archers with command for certain scenarios and champions to tie up characters in challenges for the 1 round. They're rumoured at 10 pts each so together they'd be round 350 points, leaving space for at least 3 minimum sized units of reavers with bows + spears depending on points)

2x Eagles: ~100
2x Lion Chariots: ~250
2x Phoenixes: ~450
(as you said)

That should be max points. If I can get close to 3 rbt for the price of the 4th eagle character I'd make the swap, assuming I have rare space.

Also I'd consider swapping the lion chariots for the flying chariots, tiranocs or shadow warriors depending on points.



------------
The other setup I'm looking at is something like 2x21 elite infantry, anchored by archers/reavers/good magic/rbt and something to deal with flanks like a mounted tank character.

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And Grombrindal said "10 from the back, yeah?"


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I don't like Eagle Princes, I don't think they're worth the points considering the amount of damage they do. I need something bigger, scarier, something that will truly make an impact on the battlefield. That's where I enter the Star Dragon. Worst case scenario vs. Cannons, put the Phoenix in front of him slightly angled so the Cannon has to go through it. Maybe you'll make a ward save and the cannonball stops right there, or worse it goes right through and both get hit.

The DPs might be too expensive like you said, but I like the mobile aspect of having something that hits hard and fast where I need it. Silverhelms doesn't fit that role for me because I see them as a bus and that's it. The Noble himself doesn't put out enough damage and thus I need the DPs. Another option could be elite infantry like White Lions. Replace the DPs with the Helms for a BSB bus and damage applicator while the White Lions do the heavy lifting. My only problem with that is they're not as fast as the rest of the army. More things can also damage the White Lions and that's always worth considering.

Not sure what kind of banners we have available yet, but if Banner of World Dragon becomes 50 points, that would be a hell of a good item to put on the DPs and make their worth signficantly more than Silver Helms.

Food for thought!

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Copy and pasting more brainstorm elements into this thread:

The spell flexibility that the Loremaster offers is off the wall insane.

Let's see what we get.. assuming we don't get High Magic.
Fireball - Pumpable MM.
Wyssan's Wildform - +1S/+1T augment, super good sig, good in EVERY situation.
Spirit of the Forge - That's right. Enough said.
Burning Gaze - Kills Ethereal, just another Fireball, but better vs. Undead.
Earth Blood - 5+ Regen, good every time minus flaming attacks.
Iceshard Blizzard - Hex, -1 to hit and Ld, low casting cost, super good every time.
Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma - Shadow sig, good every time.
Spirit Leech - We even get a snipe.

All the MMs and Forge are conditional, but solid spells.
Every augment is great, every hex is great.
In short, there are just no bad spells. And to have them all? Unlimited flexibility and spell supremacy. Most of these spells you can throw 2 dice at, every time, that's 8 spells that's being cast off a Lv.2.
And the best thing? Effects stack. -1 to hit from Iceshard with Pha's? Nerf his WS via Miasma + buff ours with High Magic. +1S/T combined with Ice Phoenix's ASL and -1S? Amazing.

That's before you look at your Lv.4 for double coverage, or looking for a focus in Coven of Light or something more, like High Magic. From what we see about High Magic, I'm really liking it. If FotPhoenix is what I think it is and Vaul's Unmaking remains unchanged, we will have so much utility it'll be unreal.

One of my lists will be defensive in design, but offensive in nature, if that makes any sense.

We're looking at:
Lv.4 High Magic or Lore of Light; spell info pending..
Lv.2 Loremaster
BSB LSG (hoping he can take the BSB, I mean FFS he's holding one..)
Lv.1 supporting caddy
big unit of LSG if BSB LSG Hero
2x units of Supporting Archers
2x RBT
2x Eagles
Phoenix Guard as a bunker
A good sized WL unit
Phoenix or watergirls

A very come-at-me-bro list, but I think it can work very well pending new info.

Infantry Magic/Shooting
625 Lord choices; Looking for <800 total Lord/Hero
625 Core; cheaper Archers, possibly cheaper LSG, but I will not go over 625
2x 50-point RBTs - 100
2x Eagles - 100
Looking at 15-point Phoenix Guard - 350 to spend here
24x 13-point White Lions - about 350 here
All of which using the 10/10/10 Full Command formula

~2325 without waterbows or Phoenix; the rest is pending eval.

My Dragon list will look at...
~625 Lord on Star Dragon
~550 for BSB with 11x Dragon Princes
~150 for a Lv.2 High Magic
~625 for Archers + Reavers Core
~450 for 2x Phoenixes
~100 for 2x RBTs or Eagles
~2500 total for the army; pending real prices of course - Total of ~12 drops.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:38 am 
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HERO wrote:
I don't like Eagle Princes, I don't think they're worth the points considering the amount of damage they do. I need something bigger, scarier, something that will truly make an impact on the battlefield. That's where I enter the Star Dragon. Worst case scenario vs. Cannons, put the Phoenix in front of him slightly angled so the Cannon has to go through it. Maybe you'll make a ward save and the cannonball stops right there, or worse it goes right through and both get hit.

The DPs might be too expensive like you said, but I like the mobile aspect of having something that hits hard and fast where I need it. Silverhelms doesn't fit that role for me because I see them as a bus and that's it. The Noble himself doesn't put out enough damage and thus I need the DPs. Another option could be elite infantry like White Lions. Replace the DPs with the Helms for a BSB bus and damage applicator while the White Lions do the heavy lifting. My only problem with that is they're not as fast as the rest of the army. More things can also damage the White Lions and that's always worth considering.

Not sure what kind of banners we have available yet, but if Banner of World Dragon becomes 50 points, that would be a hell of a good item to put on the DPs and make their worth signficantly more than Silver Helms.

Food for thought!


Re dragon: The eagle characters play a slightly different role. Its not about the damage per se, its the ability to have all attacks directed at your 2 prince models having to go through his save. The dragon can be involved in a fight where the opposing playing puts his attacks into the dragon and with st 6 or st7 weapon is basically wounding easily on 3s and getting free combat res that way. (not to mention purple sun, and things like the prince killing unit champs in challenges and the dragon not getting to attack). The fact that you have two eagle characters for less then the price of the dragon means you have two different threats to go around.

Re: dp.I like that idea too, but I don't think DP hit neither hard, or particularly fast, when compared to what you can buy for their points. The biggest issue I have is that they can't really move sideways well. And even so, to get a proper cavalry charge off you first have to move into optimal range... not too far to risk failed charge, not too close to get charged yourself. And then a good opponent is not just going to do anything. He'll block with something chaff or something hard, or back up and mess the ranges up. Hes not going to stay still unless theres another threat.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:41 am 
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Lord Anathir wrote:
HERO wrote:
I don't like Eagle Princes, I don't think they're worth the points considering the amount of damage they do. I need something bigger, scarier, something that will truly make an impact on the battlefield. That's where I enter the Star Dragon. Worst case scenario vs. Cannons, put the Phoenix in front of him slightly angled so the Cannon has to go through it. Maybe you'll make a ward save and the cannonball stops right there, or worse it goes right through and both get hit.

The DPs might be too expensive like you said, but I like the mobile aspect of having something that hits hard and fast where I need it. Silverhelms doesn't fit that role for me because I see them as a bus and that's it. The Noble himself doesn't put out enough damage and thus I need the DPs. Another option could be elite infantry like White Lions. Replace the DPs with the Helms for a BSB bus and damage applicator while the White Lions do the heavy lifting. My only problem with that is they're not as fast as the rest of the army. More things can also damage the White Lions and that's always worth considering.

Not sure what kind of banners we have available yet, but if Banner of World Dragon becomes 50 points, that would be a hell of a good item to put on the DPs and make their worth signficantly more than Silver Helms.

Food for thought!


Re dragon: The eagle characters play a slightly different role. Its not about the damage per se, its the ability to have all attacks directed at your 2 prince models having to go through his save. The dragon can be involved in a fight where the opposing playing puts his attacks into the dragon and with st 6 or st7 weapon is basically wounding easily on 3s and getting free combat res that way. (not to mention purple sun, and things like the prince killing unit champs in challenges and the dragon not getting to attack). The fact that you have two eagle characters for less then the price of the dragon means you have two different threats to go around.

Re: dp.I like that idea too, but I don't think DP hit neither hard, or particularly fast, when compared to what you can buy for their points. The biggest issue I have is that they can't really move sideways well. And even so, to get a proper cavalry charge off you first have to move into optimal range... not too far to risk failed charge, not too close to get charged yourself. And then a good opponent is not just going to do anything. He'll block with something chaff or something hard, or back up and mess the ranges up. Hes not going to stay still unless theres another threat.


The Eagle dudes change the idea behind the list completely. I don't want roadbumps, I want something that can smash faces and win battles.
Chaff can be dealt with Reavers and Archers, and that's what the majority of the core will be made from.

DPs are definitely in the air, but I like the idea of them over White Lions. For now. This is because of their mobility, AS and possible other bonuses, and the fact I can immediately relocate to a far flank and play the movement game vs. simply pushing models forward.

Besides, looks a f-ton cooler.

Edit: I completely forgot that we know almost nothing about our heroes. What if a Noble can ride a Dragon and take a BSB? Things would change drastically.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:16 am 
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Looks cooler? What happened to the competitive game HERO that posts on these forums?! Lol.

Eagle Character hit decently hard too, I might go the dragon route myself as well. But I do like not having the single target I have to protect because its so much points.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:47 pm 
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So how about that Banner of World Dragon? :D

Dragon Lord build as for now is pretty difficult. Looking at..

Dragon Armor obviously, Enchanted Shield
That gives our dude a 2+ on top for cheap.
95 points left..
4++ is needed, so either armor or Talisman, whichever saves the most points..

Star Lance is back I'd say.
Last 20 points goes to OTS.

To sum it up:
Enchanted Shield
4+ Ward
OTS
Star Lance

There's a 4+ Parry shield for 15 points, but that's for the cavalry commander. The Dragon dude absolutely needs his 4+ Ward.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:02 pm 
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That's exactly the Star Dragon build I'm dreaming of. What are you planning on filling the rest of the list with now we have some more solid info? Particularly heroes, support high mage? Foot or mounted BSB? Could a Dragon mage have a place?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:36 pm 
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THRILLHELM wrote:
That's exactly the Star Dragon build I'm dreaming of. What are you planning on filling the rest of the list with now we have some more solid info? Particularly heroes, support high mage? Foot or mounted BSB? Could a Dragon mage have a place?


Looking at bsb noble in DP unit. Banner of world dragon.
Prince on star dragon.
Lv2 high magic scroll
Unit of archers
Another unit of archers, bigger, flaming banner
As many ellyrion to hit 625
2 ice Phoenix
2 eagles

Dragon Mage can sit at home.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:56 pm 
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Quote:
Looking at bsb noble in DP unit. Banner of world dragon.
Prince on star dragon.
Lv2 high magic scroll
Unit of archers
Another unit of archers, bigger, flaming banner
As many ellyrion to hit 625
2 ice Phoenix
2 eagles


IIRC the new Dragon Armour now has a 6++ Ward in addition to the "Fireborn" granting the good old 2++ Fireward. If you're planning on taking a big DP regiment you could try finding the points for another mounted character kitted with defensive items to ride with the BSB in the DP regiment which would allow you to safely place a mounted High Mage in the second rank if you deploy the DP bus 5-wide. Thanks to the new Shield of Saphery lore attribute, the entire unit would be able to easily reach 5++ or 4++ stacking on top of the 6++ Dragon Armour Ward Save after a decent magic phase. The two hero-level characters in the front rank could reach 3++ if you kit em' out with the Armour of Destiny and the Talisman of Preservation. Give the Khaine's Ring of Fury to the DP champ for an extra High Magic spell to trigger the SoS.

You have some points to spare in this 2500pts list not including the points cost of the DP regiment in the equation. Since the DP regiment will be costing a lot less than 640pts you should have enough points to take a mounted noble and some fast support from the Specials section depending on how many points you've spent on the DP regiment.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:26 pm 
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That thought crossed my mind, but then I thought about how crappy our mages are in any kind of combat scenario. I would think about stacking spells or a better ward save in a fully mounted unit, but like you said, that would require more characters.

With the left over points, I'm really thinking a few flying chariots would be best. For 70 points, I can easily see it being worth the points. The chariot itself is t7, there's 2 crew and I don't think I saw an armor save. How does shooting and allocation work in this case? The bird? The crew? Or the cart itself?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:33 pm 
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HERO wrote:
That thought crossed my mind, but then I thought about how crappy our mages are in any kind of combat scenario.


The mage will be safe from the hazards of combat in the second rank, all you're losing is a single S5 DP attack replaced with an S3 Mage attack in terms of plain combat efficiency - the ward save stacking synergy is well worth losing one S5 attack from that DP unit. If you think that set-up with lots of chars is too expensive, a lesser version of this synergy that only costs 25pts is giving a Ring of Fury to the DP champ for a chance of 5++ Ward if you can sneak a Pwr lvl 3 bound Soul Quench through in the magic phase.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:26 pm 
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Hey Hero.

I've composed the same build as your dragon prince (must be something in this Cali water ;)) Its worth noting that the Star Lance Description has the final clause of, "if the bearer did not make a successful charge this turn, or if his mount has been slain, he must instead fight using another weapon". note the difference between that description and the one for lance. Lance states the model must use his hand weapon while the star lance makes no such distinction. Thus, i think its a fair bet that we're allowed to equip our Princes with a Great Weapon as well!

I still dig the eagle prince, mainly because i still have access to the lvl 4 and my mount can't be shot out from under me. However, with spells like Apotheosis giving wounds back to "models" and not characters it means that a dragon could be extremely durable.

I wonder if our princes will be able to cast magic as well and how that'll effect our builds. It seems plausible, not likely though, as dragon armor seems designed to take on the high Magic augments to boost that ward save.

i think a big unit of dragon princes will be quite effective seeing as they'll have a 2+ armor, 2+ flaming ward, and start with a 6+ ward save. Slap a BOTWD on there and laugh while you roll through your opponents army. For added shenigans add a second mounted noble and maybe a beasts wizard for savage beasts and wyssans. hahaha

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:26 am 
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Generals, Magelords and Dragonkings, check this out..

You know how I posted about Teclis?

Here's what he's packing in this new book:
Quote:
Teclis = 450
T2 3W Ld.10
Sword of Teclis - wound on 2+ no AS
Moonstaff of Lileath - one use only - you can either choose to add a bonus power die to each casting attempt, of if teclis suffers a miscast, the miscast is ignored. In either case, Teclis' S and T are both reduced to 1 for the remainder of the game ROFL
Scroll of hoeth - one use only - same
Warcrown of Saphery - Increases his Wizard level by one, so he's a Lv.5 wizard technically
Teclis does not generate spells, he either knows all of the spells from High Magic or can choose one spell from each of the 8 lores (yes, chooses)
Lileath's Blessing - +1 to cast from all lore of high magic


Now, let's take a look at something very important:
1. He's a Lv.5 Wizard.
2. He's a little less points than before, but he's NOWHERE close to the power level that he was before.
3. Meaning; we might be able to take him now without people looking at us funny.

The key notes here is that he has a +6 to cast for High Magic as well as being Loremaster, but there's something else, very important, and very unique to him.

He can select, choose, pick, 1 spell from each lore to use as his spells. He's basically a non-restricted Loremaster (Lv.2 dude).

What does this mean? We get to tailor to the max to our environment. To give you an idea, here's what I plan on taking on him.
Flaming Sword of Rhuin - Lore of Fire - 8+ to cast - Single target buff
Wyssan's Wildform - Lore of Beasts - 10+ to cast - Single target buff
Enchanted Blades of Aiban - Lore of Metal - 9+ to cast - Single target buff
Pha's Illumination - Lore of Light - 6+/12+ - Single/multi buff
Dweller's Below - Lore of Life - 18+ - Nuke
Iceshard Blizzard - Lore of Heavens - 7+ - Single target debuff
Enfeebling Foe - Lore of Shadow - 10+ - Single target debuff
Soulblight - Lore of Death - 9+/18+ - Single/multi target debuff

So what does this give me really.. well, us Elves like to kill things with our infantry so the +1 to wound Sword, +1S/T Wildform, and Enchanted Blades is there for +1 to hit and armor piercing. Pha's Illumination gives us protection, so does Iceshard Blizzard, Enfeebling Foe and Soulblight. Enfeeble and Soulblight combos with Dwellers to not only protect us from MCs and impact hits, or generally keep our expensive units alive, but also allows Dwellers to eat units all the easier. Enchanted Blades and Sword of Rhuin also gives us magical attacks (including ranged) and on-demand flaming so we're safe vs. Ethereal.

Pop the moonstaff on a critical turn high winds turn and throw out as many of these as possible. I also kept the -S characteristics in there because I plan on using 2x Ice Phonixes. All of these effects will stack, and no one would expect wounding elves on 5s and 6s.

How will you folks deck out big ol' Teclis? I think this deserves a serious look at because never before we had so much flexibility in the magic phase! Another cool combo would be taking Miasma + Purple Sun, then hoping to get a big wad of kills to generate PD off Purple Sun/Death's attribute to cast more cheapo spells.

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Last edited by HERO on Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:29 am 
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Malossar Dragonborne wrote:
Hey Hero.

I've composed the same build as your dragon prince (must be something in this Cali water ;)) Its worth noting that the Star Lance Description has the final clause of, "if the bearer did not make a successful charge this turn, or if his mount has been slain, he must instead fight using another weapon". note the difference between that description and the one for lance. Lance states the model must use his hand weapon while the star lance makes no such distinction. Thus, i think its a fair bet that we're allowed to equip our Princes with a Great Weapon as well!

I still dig the eagle prince, mainly because i still have access to the lvl 4 and my mount can't be shot out from under me. However, with spells like Apotheosis giving wounds back to "models" and not characters it means that a dragon could be extremely durable.

I wonder if our princes will be able to cast magic as well and how that'll effect our builds. It seems plausible, not likely though, as dragon armor seems designed to take on the high Magic augments to boost that ward save.

i think a big unit of dragon princes will be quite effective seeing as they'll have a 2+ armor, 2+ flaming ward, and start with a 6+ ward save. Slap a BOTWD on there and laugh while you roll through your opponents army. For added shenigans add a second mounted noble and maybe a beasts wizard for savage beasts and wyssans. hahaha


Yeah man, I'm definitely excited about the Star Lance. Even the humble Star Lance by itself + that 4+ Parry shield gives us a great combo on a cavalry general. However, what you said about being able to switch off and use a GW might be pretty damn good. If the points remain at ~12, I will be buying it if points permit. Hopefully, our Star Dragon goes down in price along side our Princes.

One thing to note is that when I was browsing through the Lion Cloaks in the glossary, I could of sworn I saw it refer to our Lords section. That might mean our dudes will be able to take Lion Cloaks after all. Although, the bonus will still only be +2AS vs. shooting, boo hiss.

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