Supporting units

[CaptainAl]

Hi there. I Plan to build a double dragon list but with being new to Warhammer, I have no experience of what works well together.

What units would compliment a double dragon list?

[Curu Olannon]

I suggest you take a look at Tethlis the Slayer's army blog in the army list section You could take a look at mine as well, though it's only one Dragon!

[CaptainAl]

Thanks very much. I'll check it out.

[CaptainAl]

After alot more reading on this forum it seems to be ths general consensus that dragon mages are competitively weak so I've gone off the idea of a double dragon list. However, I still like the thought of a flying mage so am considering a eagle mount.

My question is, are they a good option and are there any good conversion sources?

[dabber]

If you acknowledge that a Dragon Mage is weak, you should also be avoiding an Eagle mounted Archmage; that is even worse.

A Prince with Radiant Gem of Hoeth mounted on some flying beast (Eagle or Dragon) is much more usable, because he won't die to a stiff breeze (like a Mage will). Armour saves, especially re-rollable armour saves, go a long way. Cannons are always a problem, but the weakness of Mages on mounts is they die to small arms fire and ANY close combat attacks.

[SpellArcher]

I think a Moon Dragon Archmage with Lore of Life is worth a shot.

The idea is obviously to buff with Earthblood and Flesh to Stone and to heal with Lifebloom. The Archmage has three wounds which helps, though he will need a Talisman too, probably 4+ Ward but possibly Golden Crown of Atrazar.

I believe Krysith (who else? ) has tested this.

[John Rainbow]

I disagree that the eagle mage is worse. It's a completely different choice. IMHO the DM sucks competitively because they are both weak in combat so you pay the points for +1PD and not much else. The eagle mage still gives you the flexibility of movement at lower cost and more points efficiency. I think it's still a sub-optimal choice for HE but one that could work. If played right the mage can avoid pretty much all shooting/combat and fly around casting spells. The only issue is that he will likely be weak against enemy spells.

[Csjarrat]

If you acknowledge that a Dragon Mage is weak, you should also be avoiding an Eagle mounted Archmage; that is even worse.

not strictly true, an eagle actually is a better choice in some ways; it cant be shot out from underneath the mage, the mage gets a 6+ and his ward applies to the whole model. it has the same movement capabilities, is easier to hide behind terrain and is far far cheaper.
yes it sucks in combat, but why do you want your mage in combat?

[The Silly Dragon]

Eagles cannot be shot out from underneath you as they are Monstrous Beasts NOT Monsters. Interesting thing is that you go with highest number of wounds so if mounting a Noble(2W) on an Eagle(3W) he will actually use the Eagle's Wounds.

[dabber]

The big problem with the Eagle mount is it has to be your Archmage, not just a secondary Mage.

[John Rainbow]

There is always the Parmesan choice of AM on Eagle with Purple Sun... I've never used it myself but seen it work pretty well. The stench of cheesy feet was pretty overpowering though.

[SpellArcher]

The problem with riding a Monstrous Beast as opposed to a Monster or Chariot is that you don't get the Mount to soak up 2/3 of randomized hits. A fighting character can mitigate this by packing a great armour save but an Archmage can't.

I'd probably go with 4+ Ward and maybe Potion of Toughness. Life magic would be tempting.

[CaptainAl]

As a general rule then, are AM better on foot?

[Caradryal]

Yes they sure are. The problem with mounting a Mage on a dragon is that you need that dragon to see combat to start earning its points. An archmage will most likely die in one round of combat to even the weakest str 3 infantry.

[CaptainAl]

Are the points justified for a eagle mount?
If he's on foot, should he be solo?

[Danidude]

AM on foot best friends are archers. So place him in that unit. If you want a CC Archmage, take robes on him and place him in a unit you want, be careful to not place him against any magical attacks, then he is dead.

Archers are good, since then the AM is not on the front lines getting hit, and cant be targeted by shooting.

[CaptainAl]

Would SG work well then?

[CaptainAl]

Also is it best to have 1 lvl 4 or 2 lvl 2's?

[dabber]

Also is it best to have 1 lvl 4 or 2 lvl 2's?

Adding level to casting and dispelling makes a level 4 clearly better, and spell selection is better that way as well. And you can afford to give him a ward save. The only benefit of a pair of level 2s is taking two arcane items instead of one. We have a lot of good arcane items, especially for magic defense, but if you want superior magic offense, the level 4 still wins out.

[CaptainAl]

Lvl 4 it is then. Just starting out so thanks for all the tips.

[CaptainAl]

I've settled on a front line AM with robes.

What's the best combat bunker and why?

Thanks.

[Maedil]

I've settled on a front line AM with robes.

What's the best combat bunker and why?

Thanks.

Personally i run a Level 4 (Lore of Life) with 4+ ward and Silver Wand in a unit of 17 Swordmasters.

You have a large damage output bunker, which makes sure that they do not run at the first sign of danger. Personally, I feel that 10-12 Archers to often get run down. Swordmasters do not have the same problem. The main reason for choosing Swordmasters is to give them Earthblood (5+ Regen save). Want Deamons that strike first? You got it.

This means you need to be careful about which units you pit the bunker against, as flaming removes the save. Same with Killing Blow (but that is only the 6's - the rest you get a save against).

The clear downside is a two-parter:
- Losing 2 Strength 5 Attacks
- Archmage up in the front rank taking close combat damage.

Both can be migated, but only slightly. I run the Swordmasters in a 7 x 2 fashion (meaning i still have 20 attacks with the champion). Its still enough, i am not missing that one attack that much. The Archmage is then put in a corner, meaning vs. five wide units, only one front rank can hit him.

A different setup can work: Using a F-Robe mage can work. But not against WE, Deamons or Death Magic. However, with a 4+ Ward and Lifebloom, i find that F-Robe is not nessecary.

Just my two cents.