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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:33 am 
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Right guys, this is the first instalment of what I hope to be a regular feature. This month we will be looking at Warriors of Chaos and the common competitive builds seen today and how to defeat them.

So, who'd like to kick us off with any suggestions?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:14 am 
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My first suggestion is to always, and i mean always bring Eagles like 4, no joke.

WoC's strengths lie in their infantry they are combat juggernauts and no other army can match them. So our key to victory lies in mobility/speed and isolation of combat units.

Use Eagles to redirect/bait blocks of infantry, Reavers work extremely well at this also. Look at the Eagle thread for more information on how properly redirect an opponents block.

For Lores; its always a toss up for me between Shadow and Life magic. I like to take life to buff my own combat units to keep them going against that dreaded Chosen Death Star. However i also see the benefits of Shadow being able to debuff their combat units, it really goes both ways. Shadow does work better in the sense that Okkam's + Miasma can make your lowly spearelf shread Chosen like they're goblins, plus Enfeebling/ Withering others. Lets not forget Penduluum against those pesky Hell Cannons ;)

So for me its usually shadow.

Just some prelim thoughts to help open up the discussion.

Cal

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:21 am 
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Allright. Some basic thoughts and things I always do when I face Mortal Chaos.

As thelordcal said, redirection and outmanouvering is our key to succeed against WoC infantry.

But then, you cannot hide forever, and when you cannot run and hide, swordmasters are the champs to be by your side.
I run them 7x2 and sometimes 7x3 with FC if I have enough points. 21-22 S5 WS 6 attacks will go through most of their heavy blocks with ease. But then you need to keep your swordies tough or Chaos Warriors weakened and for that Lore of Life or Shadows are compulsory. T5 or even T7 should keep your troops alive when facing ultimate "death-grind-of-death" from the Choosen or other killy units.

Some cav support is also appreciated. 5 naked DPs should maim the flank of big infantry block no problem. Shooting is also vital for removing their light cav.

As for magic defense, good and cheap option is The Trickters Pendant. If misscast occures, you will have a good opportunity to shut down their magic phase for good.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:44 am 
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You have to think of it in two ways.

1: A one on one game with a list designed to beat Warriors

2: How to play them if you face them in a tournament.

These are both totally different ways of handling warriors!

Since High elves were my main army and now I am playing warriors (As well you know) I will throw in my insight for the masses. I don’t think I have ever lost to warriors in 8th with my High elves and I think they are an easy match up to be honest. Pretty much every bloody good unit has great weapons!


1: A one on one game with a list designed to beat Warriors

If facing warriors on a one to one basis, what I would do is:

Magic:

1: level 4 with lore of shadows and a level 2 with lore of Metal.

Metal gives you:
Sig metal spell rapes chaos knights and warriors, even tricky things like hell cannons. Other metal spell would be just a bonus.

Shadows can give you:
Mind Razor for Can opening
Wither for easy mass wounds to allow for more failed armour saves
Miasma to make them slower to reach you/ easier to hit

Other spells are optional extras but these really hurt warriors.

Units?

2 archers for hounds/marauders
Block of 25 spears for bunker/mindrazor fun
2 units of sword masters, one with the AP banner
1 unit white lions as they bloody hurt!
2 eagles (if you have lots they can just get picked off by magic)
Lion chariots (flanking units in combat will bloody hurt them. Wounding on 3/2 with no parry save is ace!

Combat:

As you have great weapons the best save a standard warrior will get is a 3+ armour, 6+ parry. The ones you have to watch for are Tzeentch warriors as they get a 3+/5+. This can really hurt you as if you charge in and kill only 6 of a unit of 20, that’s potentially 19 str 4 attacks back (if 6 wide like most warriors are) and you only get a 6+ save (trust be this can be a lot worse if they shrine the unit to have +1 attack)

Things to be wary of:

1: Sorcerer lord on Tzeentch on disc:

With a brutal selection of magic, usually a 1 - 2+ armour save and a 3+ ward. They can be a bitch to kill. Also with puppet they can throw lots of dice with no worry while you have to be careful. I run mine with blood roar also as it kills elf characters with ease! (If I had £10 for every dark elf lord with pendent/ high elf bsb with +2 reroll save he has killed) as they have no defence vs it (bar not rolling 6’s)

2: Third eye:

Never go home without it. Means my level one now has access to every spell you have! Just make sure he isn’t in LOS or he cannot use it ;)

3: Shrine buff:

Can make core warriors uba, especially Tzeentch with favour.
3+ ward plus stubborn?!?
3 attacks each!

Even if you kill the shrine the buff stays.

Though tough to kill, shrines are crap for combat res. 5 attacks at str 4 leader ship 8 isnt great. Just rear charge with some eagles and watch it run away


Now that’s the easy way to play warriors. What is a lot lot harder is:

2: How to play them if you face them in a tournament.

This is when you have made sure you have something to deal with most armies and don’t have most toys to deal with WoC, Lizards, Skaven, Dark elves etc etc effectively.

Best thing I can suggest is concentrate on 1 thing at a time.

Lay all your shooting into 1 unit and stick with it. Make that unit your first combat target and get stuck in with at least 2 of your own units. Never go 1 on 1 as you will most likely lose!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:40 am 
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wamphyri101 wrote:
1: Sorcerer lord on Tzeentch on disc:

I'd look to RBT for this guy.

I know he's likely got Charmed Shield but hit him a few times and he should go down.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:46 pm 
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To be honest if I was facing one I would just keep throwing stuff at him. It is amazing how many times he can die to crap!

At the etc I lost him in a game against empire. 3 cannons bounced off his face and he laughed. 8 str6 hits from banisment and it tickled him!

But throw 2 sets of 5 militia detachments at him! lets just say i rolled snake eyes twice #-o

Again against Pash last night, enough str3 bow shots and it is amazing how many 1+/3+ you can actually fail. I am serviously thinking about giving him the healing potion when he cannot take a puppet

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:16 pm 
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I will just throw some totally unstructurated ideas and experiences from my games in here, take it for what it is worth.

Swordmasters and white lions: Double edged swords. Tzeench has a spell that lets you attack yourself. Needless to say what str5/6 hits do to an elf. Your unit will be nearly halfed.

The "you can not use your generals ld and misscast on all doubles spell": Evil enough to be dispelled as soon as possible, but when it comes at you with IF by turn1, it may cause troubles. The hellcannon causes panic in every unit it wounds. If the WoC player gets of a lucky shot with his hellcannon, it will cause massive amounts of panic checks on ld8. It is vital to keep the BSB in range.

Marauder hordes should only be charged from the flank, and only if you are sure they are not steadfast and reform to face you.

High elf nobles with twohanded weapons will win most duels against chaos heros who are not melee lords.

Folariaths robe and talisman of Saphery will even take generals out of the game for a long time.

Frenzied units must overrun. Eagles are your friends.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:10 pm 
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Paricidas wrote:
Swordmasters and white lions: Double edged swords. Tzeench has a spell that lets you attack yourself. Needless to say what str5/6 hits do to an elf. Your unit will be nearly halfed.


I just witnessed this in play against O&G, it was brutal. I immediately wondered about the impact on WLs & SMs. It will be more than half the unit lost because you will be facing your own Always Strike First re-rolls. Only thing that will save you besides a dispel is being in combat already, or being Immune to Psychology (Std of Balance). It also has a ridiculously low casting value of 9+.

Paricidas wrote:
The "you can not use your generals ld and misscast on all doubles spell": Evil enough to be dispelled as soon as possible, but when it comes at you with IF by turn1, it may cause troubles.


This is troublesome, more so for the miscasts than the Ld. Its far worse for low Ld armies like O&G. After this spell was in play, most of the O&G army was fleeing by Turn 2. It also has a very low casting value, plus being RiP.

It seems that if you're facing Tzeentch, you will really need to disrupt his magic phase. It may pay off to combine Drain Magic, Annulian Crystal and even Sigil of Asuryan. Raise his casting values, drain his power dice, and attempt to destroy the worst spells.

EDIT: Here is a link to a Druchii tactica against WoC. Much of it may be applicable for use by HE.

Metal magic's Searing Doom spell seems to be very useful against hard units like the Hellcannon and Chaos Knights since it wounds on the armour save value. D6 hits that wound on 4+ (against Hellcannon) and 2+ (vs Chaos Knights), seems pretty good value.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:05 pm 
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IF attacker and victim both have ASF, then the ASF is canceled, so at least you do not have to reroll your misses if you are forced to attack yourself.
Metal magic is an absolute no-brainer against WoC, as most competetiv armies include at least one unit of tzeench-warriors with shields who are wounded on a 3+ by any metal damage spell. (Most of the time there will be even more tasty targets)
However, I would probably argue that taking metal against chaos is list-tailoring at its best (or worst) and I would not be surprised if the chaos general would reconsider a remach against such an elfen general.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:52 pm 
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Paricidas wrote:
IF attacker and victim both have ASF, then the ASF is canceled, so at least you do not have to reroll your misses if you are forced to attack yourself.


Phew.

Paricidas wrote:
However, I would probably argue that taking metal against chaos is list-tailoring at its best (or worst) and I would not be surprised if the chaos general would reconsider a remach against such an elfen general.


Agreed. I'm playing a version of Seredain's Cavalry Prince list, and that uses Life magic. I'm hesitant to list tailor for a matchup against WoC, though its arguably acceptable for my Archmage to use any of his available lores, since they are schooled in all, unlike Empire Battle Wizards. Based upon that list though, these are my observations:

Even if Treason of Tzeentch and Pandemonium get through, Life magic still offers Regrowth (or even Regeneration) for casualty recovery (unless your unit wipes itself out), and Throne of Vines' 2+ save against miscasts at least mitigates Pandemonium.

However, I still feel that more magic defence is needed, above and beyond a Dispel Scroll. Best bet would be to kill the Chaos Sorceror as quickly as possible.

With WoC you are facing an army that has many units that are at least as, if not more, expensive than yours. They generally won't have huge units, and what huge units they have (Marauders) will be inferior troops who can be either avoided or quickly disposed of by combined arms. If you take down his Chaos Knights and Hellcannons, you could easily wipe off nearly 500-1,000 points worth of units.

White Lions with a Banner of Eternal Flame are well equipped to tackle Chaos Knights (CK Fear would be negated by Flaming Attacks), though it'd be best to send them in with either Sword Masters or Dragon Princes since CKs will still enjoy good saves of 3+ to 4+. Mostly CKs are fielded in groups of 5, rarely 10. A combined arms approach should neutralise 5 knights, and they may not even get a chance to strike back. These are foes that make a S7 Prince with a Giant Blade a very worthwhile investment due to his -4 armour save penalty.

The same units can be combined against the Hellcannon, which is basically the closest WFB has to a real tank. With T6 W5 A5 and unbreakable with Thunderstomp and Terror, this thing really needs to fall on the first turn. It hasn't (AFAIK) been FAQ'd to have the Monters and Handlers special rule, but it would seem that this would apply here. So it also gets the Chaos Dwarf crew attacks as well.

The usual war machine hunt with Great Eagles will be ineffective against Hellcannon. You will need to send in Dragon Princes and at least another unit to put paid to the Hellcannon. You will probably not want to have a static battleline facing these as they can smash your units and induce Panic with just one wound, and at -1 Ld. This makes for an awful combo with Pandemonium under the Lore of Tzeentch as you can't use your characters' Ld.

The best defence against the Hellcannon then is to get your units stuck in close combat against other units of your choice (that also protects you from Treason of Tzeentch). However, archers and bolt throwers who are far away from the BSB or General are at great risk of fleeing off the table. Any unit hit would be taking Panic tests on Ld7. Still, a blast against your archers is a blast not fired against your elites, and it also means that the Hellcannon isn't rumbling forward to engage in combat.

Great Eagles can be used to run interference with their hard hitters, as thelordcal said. You can exploit their Frenzied troops' requirement to pursue or overrun to achieve superior positioning.

Quite a few of WoC's units are glass cannons, just like ours. E.g. Chaos Marauders. So using the things that we fear against them should work, too.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:48 pm 
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iI will add some of my own insights on how the warriors' army works and how we can disrupt that.
As has been said above; chaos can outdo us in combat. not neccesarily in the "doing damage" part, but surely in the "soaking up damage" part.

because of this, it's very important to analyse how much pain each of your opponent's unit can take, and then make sure you have adequate tools to deal this amount of pain. just going one on one wont work, and many of their units hit back so hard that going 2 on 1 will still mean a loss of one of your own units. force overload is key when facing super elites (warriors/chosen/knights) and also when facing high strenght hordes (marauders)

to achieve this, the first thing we need is battlefield control: taking out his fast units/disrupters and ranged potential.
-taking out fast units: in my area most chaos players field at least 1-3 units of hounds, and maybe 1-2 units of horsemen. these units are purely meant to get their own units (alive) into favorable combats. it is our task to deny them those combats by taking out these support units. the standard core of most HE armies includeds 2 units of archers, or 1 unit of seaguard. These kind of units are exactly the reason why they are so important. dont waste you shots on trying to bring down 1 chaos warrior per turn, but let loose those arrows for the doom of his light units, and achieve the first step to victory: battlefield control.

-taking out his ranged units: while a chaos army is not reknown for its ranged potential, the units that are available to them are among the most dangerous in the game: hellcannons and (tzeentch) casters. the problem lies not only in their ability to do massive damage, but in their resistance to units designed to take out ranged threats. a hellcannon will laugh off an shadowwarrior/eagle/reaver charge, and most of their casters are too well-armoured/warded to be easy targets.
when facing hellcannons, i suggest sending in some fast and durable units to take them out, or at least keep them in combat to avoid shooting. this will usually mean small units of dragon princes/silverhelms or a character mounted on some kind of steed (eagle character can be very usefull here) if this is not possible. the other option(as always) is magic. pit of shades, purple sun, sig spells of both the death and metal lore all work great. even heavens has decent spells to take them out or avoid their damage. and if you're playing a defensive lore like light or life it will atleast minimise causalties taken, giving you more time to take it out.
on sorcerors: if they are in heavy units, just put those units 1 step higher on you priority list but other than that: make sure you have decent magic defence and weather the storm. if they are running around alone make sure to threaten them, but any player worth his salt will make sure their disc riders wont get charged. dont focus too much on them except if you have some spells to take them out easily (again death sig, metal sig are great).

about chaos knights:
while these can be considered a "fast unit" they are definitely not a light unit. most players play them in 5-8, and they can be considered equal to twice the number of warriors, but then faster. they are usually my first priority after taking out their chaff: when i take them out, my movement superiority will really shine, while as long as they are around my freedom of movement is restricted by their charge arc and range. they do have a 1+ save along with ws5 t5 and multiple s5 attack even when charged. this means they are no easy target for any of our units, but best to be taken out by a LOT of s5 attacks, or even better as many s6 attacks as you can get in there. its sometimes worth to offer up a small unit of lions to get them out of position and soften the knights up with their axes, but i usually try getting my helm bus + bsb (with gw) in there. and even they need support to remove them in one turn. A positive is their knights are usually on the flank and once you break them, you have all the freedom to encircle their lines.

about marauder hordes:
usually these units are 40-60 GW weilding loonies storming at you lines. if you dont deal with them, they will cause havoc. but on the positive side, they are t3, no save (maybe 6+ ward if tzeentch, but usually fielded as khorne). this combination of low T, no save and high numbers make them the ideal target for mass spells (My regular WoC opponent HATES flames of the phoenix :twisted: ). and my only advice is "soften them up until you can handle them, then make sure you break them in one round" they are always the first (slow) unit to go down because the other units are so much harder to break.
my usual solution is: soften till there are less then 30, then charge in with a spear collomn (to break steadfast) and a combination of chariots/swordmasters/dragonprinces/anything with a high damage potential.

other support units:

chariots:
deal with them like any other chariot. either absorb the charge with a big unit, or charge in with heavy hitters. comparable dmage output to lion chariots but with higher T and save.

forsaken, monstrous infantry and monsters:
usually not taken by tournament players because of the following reason: while they can dish out damage, they cant take a lot. we as high elves have the luxury to field many high strength units which will cut through ogres/giants/shaggoths etc like a knife through butter. just make sure they dont hit you flank. if you field RBTs, these all make nice targets.

trolls:
we dont play with SC's around here but if throgg is allowed troll can become a real nuisance. they can take more pain than other infantry, and deal either multiple s5 attacks or anti-armour hits. try to stay away with your cav, unless you're sure you can kill enough before they strike. they dont like flames obviously, and while regen is good, its just as usefull vs s3 as vs s8, so multiple low S attacks can be very usefull to pick of some wounds.

units of chaos warriors:

there are 2 types: "blender warriors" and "tank warriors"

the first meaning multiple s5 or 6 attacks with "only" a 4+ save in combat (usually khorne warriors with halberds) and the second meaning 3+ save, 6/5+ parry save warriors but still with 2 s4 attacks. blenders are usually fielded in 18-21 and tanks in 15-25.

overall i think the blenders are more loved because they shred almost any unit in 1 or 2 rounds, and with their high initiative they can dish the damage before taking it. luckily we have ASF. swordmasters and white lions, or a phoenix guard/silverhelm-block supported by heavy hitters on the flanks can take out these blender units pretty easily. just make sure you can deal so much damage that the blender unit starts losing damage potential before it hits back. try to get protective buffs on any unit facing them to the front, and getting units like swordmasters/chariots/dragon princes. engage them in overload or dont engage them at all. these units can be kept busy by fodder eagles/shadow warriors/archers untill they are ready to get slaughtered. so just keep them busy, try to get them out of position (they have frenzy most of the time) and engage them in turn 4/5 to remove them in 1 or 2 rounds.

tank warriors (this includes chosen)
these units can take so much pain that you should ask yourself the question "will i be able to break them at all?" if the answer is yes, take out the rest of the army then take them out with all you have left (+use magic to soften them up). of the answer is no, feed them fodder and never engage them. this is especially true for chosen deathstars which can be nigh impossible to break, expecially if they get 3+ ward and stubborn combined with bsb who alos has insane saves.
If you DO want to take them out both white lions and swordmasters do very well. tanks dont hit as hard as blender warriors (except chosen) so try to park high save units in the front (silverhelm-bus, dragon princes and phoenix guards, as well as well armoured characters are all options) and get as many lighter units (swordmasters/chariots/whitelions) in the flanks. mindrazored spearmen also work ofcourse :roll:


lastly:
flying combat characters:
chaos can field something very close to the (DE) unkillable fying lord. or else (in the case of heroes) they can make characters pretty resistant to shooting while still being able to dish out damage. dragon lords are rare these days (they cost nearly the full lord cap without gear, in anything below 2.5k, and sorcerer lords are very popular) but very difficult to take out.

magic is always an option to take out these nuisances but what other tools do we have? their speed makes them hard to catch (if possible at all) and they can quickly dispose of any of our support units (both combat and shooting units fear them) negating our most important tool; battlefield control. massive shooting can work but we also need that for other targets, which are easier to take out. they can charge small cavalry units, small elites and chariots on their own and win in one round. so how should we handle those?

well, hope i made some sense, and hope people are willing to add to this rambling piece :D

cheers,

J


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:09 pm 
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I had a battle yesterday on universal battle and my opponent had high elves so I decided (since I would like to start a chaos army when my high elves are painted) to offer him a battle with a chaos list. I had no idea how to really play it so decided to try double hellcannon since I know these are horrible to play against, apart from this obviously powerful part I'm not sure how great the rest of my army was but I'll post it anyway.

Sorcer Lord - Death 329
4+ Ward, barded steed

L1 Sorcer - Nurgle 120
Infernal Puppet, enchanted shield

L1 Sorcer - Nurgle 110
Third eye of Tzeench

BSB - Doom Totem 243
mark of khorne, great weapon

5 warhounds 30

18 Warriors - Mark of Tzeench 391
Rage banner, great weapons

20 Warriors - Mark of Tzeench 370
hand weapon/shield

5 Chaos Knights - MoK 340
Rangers banner, Full command

2 Hellcannon 410

Warshrine - MoT 150

So general tactic was to move the sorcerer up with the chaos knights using terrain for cover. Snipe out his characters and cast doom of darkness to watch the army fall apart at -4 LD

Now First turn was mine and I moved up, magic didn't do much other than put a wound on his Archmage. Both hellcannons scored hits on his unit of 10 Dragonprinces with Prince and BotWD BSB causing 5 wounds and a LD test which he passed at LD9. His turn he moved up the dragon princes and white lions and then used 5 dice to cast withering at me... he miscast and exploded, result was he conceded half way through T1.

Now I know a lot of this was luck but I'm thinking... with Death and Nurgle a WoC general can tear into an enemies key characters, removing their general and BSB then force a great many LD tests. With my High elf army I think I would be able to cope with it (probably) due to my mobility and what not but I still dunno.

How would the rest of Ulthuans Generals deal with this sort of army/tactic?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:30 pm 
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andrew_uk, it would help if you posted your opponent's list as well. From the sounds of it he was highly magic dependent if he would concede after losing his mage.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:48 pm 
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from memory he had a L4 shadow Archmage, a prince, BotWD BSB, 35 Spearmen, 2x 12 archers, 10 Dragon Princes, 20 White Lions, 14 Swordmasters, RBT, 2 Eagles

Not saying this IS correct as I'm not 100% sure and I never reached combat with him so I don't know what his prince was carrying.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:10 pm 
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Sounds like you broke the morale of the general (the player rather than the character)!

I guess faced with 3 wizards he feared he could get wiped out with magic. That said, his army was more mobile than yours and he could insulate himself from some magic and hellcannon fire by engaging your units in close combat. Though his characters wouldn't be safe from Death magic hexes even in CC. Still, with 3 Sorcerors you will have your pick of spells, but you are unlikely to have enough power dice for them all unless you are lucky with Death magic wounds.

The army you fielded wasn't very maneuverable. Besides the relatively static Hellcannon and Warshrine, your two fastest units are the 5 warhounds and 5 Chaos Knights. After that, you just have M4 CW blocks. A HE army should use superior mobility to pick off those chaos units.

As de kaasboer pointed out, archery should wipe out the warhounds in one round. Target priority would be the Sorcerors, one of whom may be with the Chaos Knights. Gang up two or more elite units (DPs, WLs or SMs) on them. Get in some flank charges with them on the bigger blocks, add spears to remove steadfast. You'll take some hits, but with ASF and two or more units combined at a time, a HE army should be able to crush at least two of the chaos combat mainstays by Turn 2 or Turn 3 before having to worry about the Hellcannons.

Archers and RBT + eagles can take out any lone Sorcerors. Eagles can bait the Rage Banner holders on a merry chase off to an irrelevant part of the board.

Dragon Princes could be tasked with taking out Hellcannon before turning on the rear of the army.

His T1 Archmage detonation is a reminder why Life magic's Throne of Vines is a great spell.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:03 pm 
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Late to this party, but one thing I'd like to point out is that most armies regard the Lore of Tzeench to be the least effective of lores. In fact, it's outright avoided by most. Often times the armies that do take LoT are tailored thusly, with a pseudo L5 wizard (some mechanics give you a 5th spell).

So, while planning against it is important, it shouldn't be your primary focus as the other two lores are used typically more- in addition to Shadow being a very popular choice!

Take that into consideration! :D


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:07 am 
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I almost always play by the ETC restrictions, so it is in that light, I will give my take on how to tackle warriors.

I agree with the people saying, that it is actually a good matchup for us. Them having no shooting is amazing and allows us to dictate the speed of the game.
About what lores to pick, I would actually say metal. With the 5 dicing cap on the magic phase and only 4 dice for mindrazor, I'm not a fan of shadow anymore. Plaque of rust, searing doom and enchanted blades are amazing spells vs. warriors IMO.

My main problems with facing Chaos warriors are the following:
- Chimeraes
- Hellcannons
- Chariots

All three are just so hard to kill with our shooting and especially the Chimerae is just brutal in close combat with its breath weapon.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:53 am 
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Green Istari

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:26 am
Posts: 12008
Location: Otherworld
While this is interesting, please take discussion to another topic as this one is about previous army books.

The new Enemy of the Month threads will also cover WoC in due course.

Locked.

SA

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